We payed for this so im afraig the jokes on us

hell yeah, get a keygen, and kickass with Q43A on a lan, or try master3.idsoftware.com to get the server listed

you need the real 1.4.2 patch exe files for a pure server, or you cant connect

hmmm, tell me moar :)

more about what, install quake 4, install 1.4.2 patch, use a keygen to get a working offline cdkey, download Q43A, play SP/MP all you want, with listen or dedicated servers

only place you can buy a new cdkey to play online is http://www.cdkey-game.com/quake-4-cd-key-p-350.html for $25

so u can play mp on public servers without buying a cdkey?

no, if you use a keygen to get a cdkey, you can only play MP offline on a lan using a listen or dedicated server, with clients using fake cdkeys or official retail cdkeys

if you have a dedicated box thats not part of a game server hoster center, you need to buy a cdkey to run a dedicated server on your dedicated box, game server hosters will have a cdkey setup when they setup your account

if you a client and want to play on public online MP servers, you need to buy a cdkey

i only have a 3g cellphone connetion, i play no games online

http://www.moddb.com/mods/q43a/videos

gets more attractive every sunday :~

WHY U NO FIX THE FUCKING SERVERS AND WEBSITE?
IT TOOK ME 10 MINUTES to login, and then i even couldn't start my own server or find any.

FOR U ID!</3

ESL drops QL, pigs can fly, Quake goes down

WHAT'S THiS WORLD COMING TO?!

2012 gg

it's 2116 now apparently

Jesus Walks

*id

quake needs :

A FUCKING LADDER/RANKING SYSTEM for 1v1

INFINITY COMMUNITY MAPS

NON-BROWSER OPTION/LAN

MOAR CAPS

here you go: q3

Id needs to realize that a browser game is shit. We need a box version with lan support. Oh wait we have Quake 3.... Why not make an other patch for q3 with all the new stuff, repackage it, throw it on the shelves, premium maps could be bought separetly as dlcs... Quake Live site could still function as an interactive community site and master server or whatever the hell they want. Why do we need the internet and a login to be able to play against fuckin bots? If they dont do something we can all go and play hellokitty online or recode some sdk for q34a

they cant fix browser lagz
and u want patch for q3
lol

Because q3 has always been so laggy... Not

lol

THISIZID

think like this:
will I get money for a q3 patch? Forcing all the owners of q3 to pay for a (pro/premium) patch? Unlikley... it will be too obvious our work is crap compared to cpma. Q3 got a lot of maps for free. We need at least 1 argument to lure all those brainless kids.

will I get money for q3 (in release state) in a browser? Hell ya! We will spread its for free but we will introduce pay accounts soon. Maps for paying user... and ofc we will claim we dont get money from it we are just doing it for the quake community...

I'd be surprised if they were getting enough money to cover all the expenses tbh, let alone profit from it.

i would guess killing of those massive stat tracking servers would solve that issue.

Id needs to realize that a browser game is shit.

Probably because it's a browser game and doesn't require much effort to go right into a match, there are still thousands of people playing QL, because "why not have a quick game?". If it was a boxed game, most of the community will just say "ah, whatever" and move on to different things, because you need to buy it, unpack it, install it, run it, etc. You just don't understand how big difference that makes for general QL audience that is not crazy about Quake at all.
In this regard, id's biggest fail is requirement to register for all players. If completely random people could just follow a link on some forum and get into a Quake match right away, without any administrative procedures, QL could have 10x more players right now.

Name one competition oriented browser game (fps) apart from QL, I dare you!

I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOFO!

edit: ok, maybe Battlefield Heroes but that is a third person game

What this has to do with anything?

If what you said was true, there would be other browser fps games, but there aren't.

Exactly. In the case of id, they have a long history of building a game just to license the engine. If there was a viable market for it (outside MMO/farmgame microtransactions), there would already be a ton of them.

I feel like I recognize your name from the other QL-bashing threads.

In any case, the reason why QL isn't popular has nothing to do with the model. It has to do with the fact that the game is old, looks old, and is rather complicated.

Most people aren't "l33t" enough to play Quake Live. If World of Warcraft was browser based and free it would have like 1 billion players for sure.

I'd say that it's a little of both. id reasoned that giving the game away would be a way to increase the user base. The reality is that anyone who wanted the game (Q3, that is) for free could have gotten it anyway, and your average consumer is willing to pay for a product that they feel is worthy.

It's possible that it could have been more of a success if it was different enough from Q3, but it's pure speculation.

The model has a lot to do with it though. A subsciption model without the ability for people to pay with paypal, etc is hurting them. I understand the reasons against it (additional fees that will trickle down to the users) but it's certainly a top complaint of many ql forum regulars. The inability to pay for 1,3 or 6 month subscriptions is also fail. And we could continue with premium but we all know the issues with that now.

In any event, the game definitely looks dated and 10 years past its prime. Ql has 3 months left to blow ou minds or the lights will go out, the butter will be cooking, the eggs will be sizzling, etc you know the rest of the story

Paypal wouldn't matter to me, I still wouldn't buy a subscription. I would rather just buy another game off steam. QL is not worth the money.

more payment methods and 1/3/6/12 month subscription options would have helped a lot anyway

Why would there be? Nothing I said implies that.

What vedic said

Where? Link?

recode yup, the game is exactly the same though, it just has better and cleaner code with aload of new features that are usable in game, which to add them you have to recode most things anyway

you all too full of shit and think id are gods, when the company still only exists because of carmack, the rest are retards, if they wasnt and they did some work idtech would have all the standard gameplay features all other engines have in the base SDK for the engine

when they licenced the engine out, any company that got a licence has to code everything themselves, if you have unreal engine, all gameplay features of UT come with the engine

id should be splash damage +carmack

download http://www.moddb.com/mods/q43a/addons/q43a-q4ctf4-60-slot-v2 and see if the engine allows more then 16 players, everything in the sdk does, the map has most things except for napalm gun which if you add 1, you can guide it from POV using alternative fire [zoom], and it has no vehicles, and find all the glitches and bugs fixed, with code running specific to server or client and not over written by a snapshot, run the map on a dedicated server

if you run a windows server and get a crashlog, send me a zip and i will fix it in 30mins, if its something todo with the gamex.dll

the worst part of all this is.... they don't even listen. instead of giving out a message to all players "we are aware of the problem and we will fix it soon..." they just ignore it. good attitude id!!!

has the skill match system broke?
today i joined a skill matched CA server then couple mins later 4k`dibbe joins...i leave (6-0 & nobody wants to fix teams) and join another skill matched server then rage`vium joins :F

first time ive seen such high skilled players on servers apart from purposely speccing higher skilled 1v1s

thinly veiled brag

yeh, at least when i brag i'm open about it

-twitch railed linkin on pub siberia
-once won an LG battle vs clampOK in pub courtyard

highlights of my pro gaming career thus far

my duel rating is 22 & thats my best gametype; hardly a brag about not wanting to lose 10-0 in servers :d

it sounded like you were bragging by mentioning vium and dibbe joining the server you were on, implying they wanted to play alongside you or something :P

i made dibbe leave the server
QL CA'ers are idiots anyways...in UT2004 people would fix the teams to make the maps closer than 10-1

so basically you whined like a little girl instead of just playing the game like everyone else.

I don't think the system works for CA...

all my matches are skill matched, no matter how good or bad the players on the server are

Because you dont get lower skilled servers displayed, with their recent change you can't join/see them.
You seem to be in the highest tier so all matches are skill matched obv.

its way to easy to get maxtier CA - thats why. (i am myself.. but not even close in other gamemodes)

everybody who knows strafejumping is in tier 4 sry to disappoint you :(

sif you neet to know how to strafe to be in tier 4.

I can strafe jump..........

lolz, vium sucks on ca xDD

the sad thing is that he's still better than you :(

:(

don't think dibbe plays much ca either

dibbe is pretty awesome on CA though =))

He has very decent aim, but I don't think he's that good at ca.

have you played with/against him then? thought so..

Yes, I have.

okay :p nvm then

it's ok, CA is a noskill mod, so all servers are matched in skill \o/

:>

Care Live all new with fee's n' shit.

The last couple weeks I noticed a server here and there running premium maps, but standard players can join. What's going on with that?

I don't know what people expect. It's painfully obvious that id doesn't have anyone working on this game full time. In fact I'm sure weeks go by between anyone looking at QL code.

hahah, this so so awessome people raging because they cant play, you are like drug addicts. "OH FUCK ID, I WILL NEVER PLAY THIS SHIT AGAIN" in the day after this you will be playing even more time...

Stay of my damn E-Crack NOW!!!!

cool story bro

mother fucker!! just one moar rail!! I NEED TO HIT 1 MOAR RAIL AND IM DONE FOREVER.

dont let him!!111oneeleven

go out and enjoy the sun.

But the sun burns my eyes. >_<

i like rain in itself better

the only reason the sun attracts me somehow is because of its effects on females clothing.

your beard reflects that, epic beard man!

it's almost like there are a lot more good looking women during the summer :-)

It's like saying that shit to a bunch of vampires, bro.

whatever you say but I went to the beach today and I was not the only one.

I could go to the beach but I'm pretty sure the coast is still frozen. I could hang out with the seals, though.

yea ripping us off just like that... sons of b... oh wait gbyte payed for my acc... it still is a scam!

I haven't played in ages, won't be renewing my acc :<

You should start a poll to find out who else isn't going to renew their subscription.

He should start a poll to see what people think of him not renewing his subscription.

isnt it automatic?

it is, but can be disabled

Yep, you can change account settings. I think yearly auto renewal membership is a dick move on ID's part.

you mean get the bank to block it or id has a cancellation option?

No, if you go to account settings on QL there's a subscription option where you can cancel auto renewal. You have to say why you want to cancel, but it's relatively easy.

thanks for mentioning it, just changed it... not that i know right now if i want another year or not... but i hate this auto renewal

Yeah down again. FUCK YOU ID.

(can I haz my 24 bucks back thx)

Boys, for a year of access is so cheap you're wasting more time coming here to show us your lack of inner joy, searching for teh empty halfz. We are talking the price of a dinner on a medium quality restaurant. And you get special features with it that non paying members dont. And when it expires you simply continue to play as a non premium member, if you dont want to continue paying as you imply.

You have to realize that we can mod and do cool things with Q3 but at some point you have to make a decision between going full underground QW style, or accepting that things change, and todays gamers have less patience so you have to trade some shit to actually have people to play aka a community. QuakeLive is a game that has a good dose of both things, namely a fast paced deathmatch game, and a healthy level of actual players.

If you consider yourself a fan of the genre and arent enjoying your daily dose its not because of something Quakelive lacks, but something thats lacking in your life newb :D

QuakeLive Rocks

its more of a 7inch pizza at dominos

in my experience the equivalence between money and food makes me appreciate money a lot more.

also in our region (southamerica) a premium account is worth it only if you play duel. Because of that I'll buy a pro account if the next quakecon update is substantial enough to think id deserves to have two 7inch pizzas at dominos.

Quake 1/2/3 rocks

fixed that for you

Quake 1/2/3 rocked
QuakeLive rocks, here and now, present

keep whining and wishing what isnt bro, living in the past where your ego feels powerful and gives you lot of ideas to judge and suffer, meanwhile ill keep enjoying what is.

oh wow, a ql and zeitgeist fan. do you like mcdonalds and lady gaga by any chance?

hahahahahahahahahha [+]

Just image the whine if those 20€ meant something.
Pathetic.

Its not about the money, its all about treatment and respect. In Poland we say "I pay, I require", so it doesnt matter if it costs 20 $, 50 $, 100 $ - they have right to complain if they feel the service quality and attitude is not good.

inb4 poland jokes, this pretty much sums it up

I was serious, but thx :)

i never thought you weren't

Just because you pay something doesn't mean you're REQUIRED service that you deem acceptable. You pay $1 for a bagel, you get your 1$ bagel. If you pay 100$ for a bagel, yeah, that better be the best damn bagel in the world.

You're entitled to what you paid. You can't pay 10$ and expect 100$ service.

i mean I've already spent my money on q3 and I want support

Support for what? QL is a different game, who cares that you bought Q3?

a different game? n1 trollin... oh wait GTV, LAN support, a lot of maps... right, q3 is different. Its more like a fullversion and ql is sth like a demo

Even the old counterstrike gets some updates altought I've spent 15€ (once!) 10 years ago.
ID claims they dont earn any money anyway with ql so whats the problem to update q3?

Q3 is dead, CS 1.6 isn't.
vq3 (thats what you paid for..) had less features than QL.
With 28 years you should know that bills must be paid, or do you still live with your mum?

tell me y can valve pay those bills and produce updates althought they dont earn any money from cs anymore?
A better example... how could cpma/osp become so great since those mod coders werent paid?
Did I mention ql is about 70% features of cpma/osp? And those ql coders are paid! so wtf

tell me y can valve pay those bills and produce updates althought they dont earn any money from cs anymore?

because
a) they earn money with other games
b) they want to keep their userbase

Regarding b), most of Q3s userbase moved to QL anyway. Now we could argue why id doesn't put more money into QL, but thats a different story.

A better example... how could cpma/osp become so great since those mod coders werent paid?
Did I mention ql is about 70% cpma/osp? And those ql coders are paid! so wtf

I guess most work on Q3 mods had been done in spare time by people who love quake. You could also ask Microsoft why they don't give away their office suite for free as OpenOffice coders aren't paid. Also I doubt that id can afford to pay more than one fulltime (senior) developer to work on QL. The web developer part seems to be done by trainees by all means.

There are still updates btw:
http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2036455

because in cs there's constant influx of new players. old players leave new players join. they also don't have to pay anything for the servers.

To be fair, Valve has made money on everything that they sell, whereas id have only made money on the DOOM franchise.

Lets assume they made some money on the great success of Commander Keen and Wolfenstein plus the millions of copies they've sold on the Quake franchise, as well.

I'm not sure how many copies Quake 1/Keen sold, but Quake 2 sold just over 1 million, Quake 3 did not sell 1 million, and Quake 4 did not sell 1 million. The original DOOM (1 and 2) games were supposedly several million each, and Doom 3 sold over 3 million.

It's surprisingly difficult to find credible sources for sales. This cites PC Data and gives 1.8M for Quake. Meanwhile Valve claim over 20M for the Half-Life franchise.

Well, it's going to be hard to find numbers from older games. Still, if that site is to be believed, I wonder why there has not been a new Quake game in the spirit of the original Quake. It stands to reason that Quake 2 sold so well because it stood on the shoulders of Q1, which would explain why Q3/Q4 did so poorly. I'm half expecting the same to happen to Doom 4, since Doom 3 didn't stand on its own.

Good point

id made buttloads of money licensing the Quake engines to a zillion games.

Let's face it, id is Carmac that can write kickass engines, not an entire company that can make games.

Counter-strike was released for retail at the end of 2000 and the last meaningful update, 1.6, was in 2003. Half-Life was released in late 1998 and wasn't updated for shit. Quake III was released late 1999 and was regularly updated until mid 2006 with 1.32c. They then continued with QuakeLive which has very frequent updates, which have nothing to do with OSP. You're clueless if you think you're entitled to a life time of Quake3 updates just because you bought the game for $10 eleven years ago.

"They then continued with QuakeLive which has very frequent updates"

surely you jest...stopped reading right there...

Aug 24 2010
Aug 31 2010
Sept 14 2010
Sept 28 2010
Oct 12 2010
Oct 26 2010
Nov 2 2010
Nov 9 2010
Nov 16 2010
Nov 25 2010
Dec 1 2010
Dec 2 2010
Dec 14 2010
Jan 13 2011
Feb 2 2011
Mar 15 2011

should i post the updates of cpma/osp? just to compare ;-)
btw adding a few colors isnt an update... ql got 3 or 4 updates thats it

Do it. I doubt the comparison is what you'd expect, but it would be irrelevant to this discussion anyway. Anyway I just said QL was frequently updated, nothing more.

maybe your right... but this would make ql look even worse since they released so many updates and is still less than about 70% features of cpma/osp
new color updates or new map updates wont bring the game to the state of q3 + mods

btw y do many people defend ID? did you just started quake? ID's fail is obvious

id get a lot of warranted criticism, but often times people's criticism is just absurd.

ok i'll bite. Here's your so called updates. In regards to content (not bugfixes), the following was found in each update date:

August 24 - no content
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...st-24-2010

August 31 - 4 cvars
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...st-31-2010

--(cg_drawCrosshairTeamHealth, cg_drawCrosshairNames, cg_drawCrosshairNamesOpacity, cg_playerLean)

September 14 - invisible update
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-14-2010

September 28
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-28-2010

-- 4 maps (Devilish, Fatal Instinct, Somewhat Damaged, Thunderstruck)

October 12 - no content
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-12-2010

October 26
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-26-2010

--chat tokens (content?)
--chain jumping (content?)
--1 cvar (cg_drawCrosshairTeamHealthSize)
--4 maps (Finnegan’s , Gothic Rage, Solid, Window Pain)

November 2 - invisible update
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...ber-2-2010

November 9 - no content
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...ber-9-2010

November 16
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-16-2010

--20 New Premium Awards (if you can call that content)
--2 maps (Evolution, Three Story)

November 23 - no content
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-23-2010

November 25 - no content
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-25-2010

December 1 - no content
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...ber-1-2010

December 2 - 1 cvar
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...2010'

--('cg_chatHistoryLength')

December 14 - 3 maps (2 temp)
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...er-14-2010

-- ( Double Impact, Overlord, Tornado, Silent Night, Winter's Edge)
-- dreamhack and winter awards
-- premium scoreboards
-- santa model

January 13 - no content
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...ry-13-2011

February 2 http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...ary-2-2011

7 cvars ('cg_itemFx', cg_simpleItemsRadius', 'cg_lightningImpactCap', 'r_fastSkyColor', 'cg_smokeRadius_dust', _smokeRadius_flight', 'cg_smokeRadius_haste' )
-- 3 maps (Concrete Palace, Dies Irae, Skyward)
- damage dealt and damage received stats
- Duel Play Queue

February 17
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...l-Features

- facebook and twitter like buttons (lollolol?)

March 15
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php....-Mar-15th

-- 2 maps (Toxicity, Distant Screams)
-- premium killbeep sounds
-- Facebook Screenshot uploading feature (content?)
-- tier display to player profiles

____________________________________________

So to recap, since quakecon we've received the following from id's esteemed team

- 15 maps (not made from scratch) (3 duel, 4 ctf, 4 tdm, 4 ca)
- 13 cvars
- some social media features (like buttons, uploading feature)
- premium scoreboard
- premium killbeeps
- temporary christmas only santa model and 2 temp maps
- 20+ awards
- chat tokens
- chain jumping

Now that may seem like a lot to you, based on the size of this post, but if you consider it's been almost 9 months since quakecon, the average player is not going to be happy with that and virtually nothing the community has asked for (besides the premium scoreboards). I don't count stupid web fixes that should have never been broken in the first place as an update.

Now how many of you are happy with that? I bet a lot of people who paid subscriptions expected a whole lot more out of id than that.

okay, so now give an example of how many updates YOUR favorite game gets in 9 months. Post timelines, too, you do that well. You get a 9 month window. GOGOGO

somoene should post updates for wow or l4d2. oh yea I forgot, those games already have every feature imaginable, but they still get updated.

you're also forgetting that many of these ql "updates" are stuff most decent games have from the get go.

Feel free to search for L4D2 or TF2 updates. Guess what, I don't have to pay annually for that shit either

not that i disagree with you but just wanted to say devilish, tornado, dies irae and concrete palace are all maps that are new to ql. the first two are quite good and the other two are worth trying out imo. but anyway as i said doesnt really change anything.

edit: focus by ur logic starving people should be happy, because they arent dead.

and virtually nothing the community has asked for (besides the premium scoreboards). I don't count stupid web fixes that should have never been broken in the first place as an update.

So I guess 15 new maps in less than a year wasn't what the community asked for? It was actually the most asked for feature by far. If you don't consider bug fixes as updates you have no idea what game updates are about 95% of the time. Your post is intentionally misleading from start to finish as can be illustrated by a random example:

are you daft?

fixes for something THAT SHOULDNT' HAVE BEEN BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE is not an update. That's like breaking 100 things and then having an update fixing those 100 things.

I'm not even going to warrant that with a response beyond what i just wrote because that is quite possible the dumbest response i've ever seen next to ones made by quakerdoom.'

EDIT: HERE'S THAT GREAT EXTENDED UPDATE OF YOURS.

-------Fixed the quit lag/delay: Hitching on Windows systems will no longer occur when leaving the game. Furthermore, fixes have been made to properly shutdown the games sound system prior to quitting so that looped sounds cannot occur when leaving the game. (LLOLOLOLOLOL)
------Shotgun Pattern Calculation:
Shotgun now fires in a fixed pattern on the server, what little per-pellet spread used to exist is now purely a client-side visual effect. (lolololool)
-------Minor Shotgun Balancing:
All pellets for the shotgun will now do 5 damage (still 20 pellets, now 100 dmg total) in most gametypes. Spread has been increased from 900 to 1000. (DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY TIMES THEY'VE CHANGED THIS BACK AND FORTH NOW? PLEASE LOL....)
-------Team Deathmatch Weapon Balancing: (LLOLOLOLOL AGain)
-------Fixed Player Head Bug:
-------Fixed Team Balance Bug:
------Fixed UnnamedPlayer Exploit:
------ Fixed Admin 'put' Command in Duel:
-------Fixed 'dropflag' Command During a Pause: Players may no longer issue the 'dropflag' command while a match is paused or in a timeout. (LOLOLOLOL)
------Fixed Janet's Mipped Hair, the player model's hair will no longer improperly mip when picmip is used. (LOLOLOLOL)
------Game no longer crashes when attempting to 'give' an invalid item. (LOLOLOLOLOL)
------Slightly better flag positioning and image quality despite ignoring its proper aspect ratio. (LOLOLOLOLOL)
-----Improved flag images, no longer get scaled on scoreboard. (only a slight improvement)
-----Fixed lightning stream bug that existed in third person while truelightning was enabled. (LOLOLOLOLOL)
-----Fixed Premium scoreboard display when a player goes into spectator, forfeiting the match. (LOLOLOLOLOL)
-----Reduced 'flag bounce' by half for dropped CTF flags.
Various maps and other graphical assets have had textures optimized for filesize/bandwidth usage, resulting in a smaller download.

------

I CAN JUST SEE IT NOW. ; MAY 7TH, 2011 UPDATE:

---fixed IEM9 ads causing them only to hang for 15 seconds instead of 24.
--- TDM Shotgun now does 84 dmg and shoots with 134 pellets instead of (however many). we may change this again next week lolololol
--- Fixed friends list lag by temporarily removing the friends list
--- Website fix: leaderboard removed for faster page loading..
--- Front page slideshow optimized again for faster loading
--- fixed biker's crouch to no longer show a big bulge which offended certain peoples.

I MEAN SERIOUSLY LOL. THOSE ARE NOT UPDATES. THOSE ARE FIXES THAT SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE BEEN BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

i thought you made some valid points, sad to see its all based on a one sided, simple minded and *** view

whate are those *** in your post? did you write shit? I never get that in my posts. shit faggot cunt fuck pussy

nope, definitely doesn't work for me

i have one sided opinions in regards to incubus because i've never witnessed him doing anything positive in this game besides tierslumming/stacking/using racist language/harassment/etc etc etc.

In regards to id, i'm fair. Saying it's great that we're able to play quake live for free isn't something i should have to mention. Thats' a given. But if the future of quake live contains nothing but empty servers without the playerbase most of us grew accustomed to in summer of 2009, with 15 maps added by id since quakecon that hardly anyone plays on, then what's the point of it being free. So ofcourse people are going to point out the negatives before the positives. If Quake Live turns around i'll be the first to indicate why and what it needs to do to continue that positive trend.

For now, however, it's going downhill and people are leaving the game. Not pointing those things out is doing an injustice to id (who should know why they're failing) and impractical (since it will only help bring people together to find the fixes to those problems).

It's obvious that id's biggest failures to date are in regards to their lack of communication with the community and their lack of advertising. (complete lack thereof). That's not a one sided opinion, its' fact.

The kind of updates people are looking for contain items on the priority list (and maps (as a whole) are not on the top of the list. The maps that have been released to date are hardly played now as it stands (due to the premium subscription debacle).

They are looking for updates that contain:

- new payment options for subcriptions (eg. PAYPAL)
- ladders
- GTV
- Lan support
- community map contests
- Credits given to unhappy customers who opted out out late (due to stupid renewal policy) and credits given to people who opted out early (because they only wanted 3 or 6 months in the first place)
- Teamkilling situation in TDM Fixed
- Stackers/tierslummers situation fixed in CTF by removing skillmatching and/or stats or both.or by simply applying CA like spectator joining rules. (imbalanced teams; 4v2 situations become impossible at start of game)
- Freezetag fixes (it's been how long now?)
- Netcode (that it is being worked on)
- defrag
- Seing the game advertised
- Communication from id software
- etc etc

What do we get?

""Here's some maps that .00005 percent of you will play since noone plays on premium servers. oh ya and here's 50 things we screwed up and fixed (6-8 months later). "" -- (mock summary)

I'm supposed to give them credit for that? i dont' care if it's bethesda's fault and neither does anyone who just wants to play the game without 10,000 bugs and errors. If it's really that difficult to deal with bethesda and do what's right, then maybe it's time id parts ways with them don't ya think.... or vice versa, maybe id is the problem...

Whether those are feasible additions isn't up for debate here, it's simply what people have been asking for since ql's inception (july 2008). We've waiting how long ? oh ya almost 3 years. At what point would you say its' fair to call it a gg? i'd say now if compared to what other companies normally offer in the same timeframe.

the following sums up how out of touch syncerror is with the ql community: you may remember the ca playersize issues from last year...
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/9871/ggidlol.jpg
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7696/liesa.jpg

You make a good example of what I was referring to earlier. It would be great if all games and applications came out perfect and error free, let alone complex multiplayer games subject to constant change. That's not how it works though, and the way responsible developers respond to that is through continuous fine-tuning and bug fixing via updates. This is why with everything from game mods such as CPMA to operating systems such as Windows 7 you see developers releasing regular updates to fix bugs which their product will inevitably have. Many video-game developers don't bother with that though, and the length of which id supported Quake 3 for example is extremely rare.
Disregarding bug-fixes as updates because they should not have been there in the first place is a naive way of looking at things to say the least. The reason I'm explaining this to you like a child is because you have the mindset of a child.

If you bother reading what little I've posted in this thread you'll find that I feel id warrant a lot of valid criticism. Certainly they can and should do better with QuakeLive. Not out of the kindness of their heart, but because they're charging 24$/y for their product. In a lot of ways their direction is misguided and it makes you wonder their dedication to the project, or how it will end up. Their system with centralized servers has pros and cons. The biggest worry concerning that is that one day, at any time, the plug can be pulled from the project and we won’t have private servers to continue with the community as we do with the other Quakes. The project will simply end.

But back to their current dedication, they're not doing nothing either. Maps are one example. It was by far the biggest demand of the community a year ago. They've since made available an abundant of maps in a short period, both requested ones from older games and new ones. Regarding game play, the tuning they do with weapon balance is one example where they’re definitely listening to the community. Neat things such as stats, scoreboards are another example of that. That fact doesn't rhyme well with your claim that they have produced virtually nothing the community has asked for. They also release frequent updates which contain new features and bug fixes. That was my original statement. Of course, that statement alone contains no judgement on the quality of the updates. That didn't stop you from assuming the worst and cause you to lose yourself. What it did though was exposing your mindset, even if you are just anonymous.

The fact is though, a community of part timers doing it for free for Q3 accomplished way more. The whole point of paying the subscription was for them to get shit done. I thought we were getting at least one dedicated employer from id who could deal with such requests.

Why are they having issues such as with the DB. When no one particularly gives a shit about stats being stored. Just make them accessible via a condump and we can do the rest from there.

How about they build a decent in-game browser to greatly reduce the http requests to the main website so it doesn't run dog shite slow.

There's no fucking logic to what they're doing. It's all ass backwards.

almost all maps for ql were made by the community... and its still not an update!!!
When you consider every release of a map an update then... what do think about games like defrag which gets new map releases on a regulary basis?

Devilish is a q3 map and Dies Irae is too but not positive, thought I remember someone on qlive forums mentioning it.

I think he's pretty much spot on about the respect for customers though.

I like to look at it this way: within a year's time I will have paid less for SC2 than I did for QL but I'd expect Blizzard to communicate with me if there's anything wrong with the service they're offering, a quick twitter with "we know there's problems we're on top of it" would be enough.
On the same note Blizzard communicates with their communities a lot compared to id. id won't even put out a dev blog although they promised to do so. IMO you just can't charge the worth of a AAA-game for a yearly subscription and refuse to communicate to your costumers.

here you buy a bagel for 15$ and it's shit.

Yeah, but if there would be a strategically placed dried dog turd inside said bagel, you'd go back to the bagel vendor and explain you're not amused with his wacky antics, wouldn't you?

You pay for a service/product, you have every right to be displeased if it doesn't meet your expectations.

Man, I dont wanna be sorrounded by supporters who would do everything what I should. I know, 20$ is really nothing but everyone who paid have right to complain if they see ID doing nothing in basic things like fixing their overloaded (since two weeks?) site and other random issues (look how many complaints are here and on quakelive forum).

your example is poor.

surely if you should get what you paid for then paying to play a game & then that game being unavailable then youre not getting what you paid for.

it would work better if people complained about lack of updates (since you paid for it without gtv, new maps etc)

why should I pay 50$ a year for a shit game when I can buy a much better game for 4.99$?

nope, going to buy 'Rage'

ok

lol

nope, going to buy 'Rage'

ok

lol

funniest part is, its' been 2 years and people stll complain about the same things, eg; lack of communication. It's like, helllooooooooooooo mcfly... get a hint..... id isn't going to change..

its' beyond obvious their priorities lie with rage and that wont' change for at least 2-3 years more to come. By then ql will consist solely of hard core gamers; a point we're already close to (the first page of the clan forums spans 3-4 days on average, last year this time, 1 day would span an entire page). Without clan interest/support, this game has absolutely no hope.

There's really nothing id can do at this point to reverse this negative trend. This game pretty much died last year at quakecon. Sure they can keep bringing out features here and there, but the vast majority of gamers who were interested in this game have already left with a high amount of frustration.

Now just imagine the negative feedback those people are leaving on other gaming forums. That damage is irrepairable. Once the word is out, that a game is bugged to hell (eg; quake live), that info will just spread out like wildfire.

Id screwed up by consistenly negating the majority of the community and focusing squarely on their focus group testers. It will only ensure a small niche of hardcore fans stick around (cuz they're addicted to the stats and lore of quake). But that's pretty much exactly what it appears id wants at this point.

I strongly agree with others that quake live is merely a test for bethesda to gauge the interest in the quake series and a possible doom browser based game .

It's only a matter of time before the last remaining addicts get addicted to other games never to return.

Nothing is changing with id's development team. We still have:

1) severe lack of communication beyond repair (they vowed to change this remember? (ql devpost) We saw sync answering some questions here last september 18th, 2010
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...th-Changes

2) priorities are whacked (killbeep cvars before requests by comm). you can count the number of requests that were filled on one hand based on the following post
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...t=priority

3) lack of updates as promised (only 4 major content updates since last years quakecon (8 months) the rest consisting of web fixes.
http://img820.imageshack.us/i/wehaveappliedtwofixesth.jpg/

4) id's lack of transparency ( not just in regards to a lack of devblogs (4), but in regards to hiding awards, leaderboards, information in general to brainwash the unaware.
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?6-Developer-Blog

5) elitist attitude towards newcomers to the genre; the exact userbase that could have helped to grow this game.
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post124016

6) consistent delays in fixing issues (nobody works on the weekend). Takes on average 6-8 months before they are adressed if at all (friends list issues were never fixed, nor will they admit that they can't do anything about ie9's ad problems (since that is a player-to-player issue they can't fix).

7) complete lack of advertising (see screenshot). 0$!!!
http://img851.imageshack.us/i/qladvertising.jpg/

8) the continued misperception to new users that ql is skillmatched (see screenshots) when in reality, skillmatching has never been more broken than ever, due to a continued decline in population and the merging of tiers). Only 3 tiers in CTF! (still waiting for someone to find me a tier 1 ctf player)
http://img688.imageshack.us/i/liesalllies.jpg/

9) tierslumming and the attitudes of those players in ctf and the resulting death of it's playerbase
http://img641.imageshack.us/i/lolimp.jpg/ (80 impressives/60 acc)
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7927/incubus2t.jpg (100-2 - 89% acc)
http://img268.imageshack.us/i/unledcy.png/
http://img840.imageshack.us/i/funfunfunfunamiriteid.jpg/
http://img64.imageshack.us/i/nooneplaying.jpg/ (taken at 5:43 p.m E.S.T)
http://img641.imageshack.us/i/whichtierwasthisagain.jpg/

10) death of tdm - friendly fire/ inability to kick teamkillers/tierslummers
http://img40.imageshack.us/i/incpht1050.jpg/ (150-0 - latest incubus accnt)
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?13826-ban-delteww_w

11) still (8 months later) no other payment options for premium/pro subscriptions (again i point to 6-8 month delay)
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...ht=payment

12) no tech support (yakumo and ordus does not equal tech support)
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/forumdisplay.p...al-Support

13) empty promises made at quakecon that still haven't seen the light 11 months later
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...th-Changes

14) continued unhappyness of even the biggest diehards (visje, icey_pain who as some of you may remember was as big an asskisser last september (at the birth of the new ql forum) as tucker_, anhedonic and domino (aka boxybabee) continue to be now)
http://img847.imageshack.us/i/iceypain.jpg/
http://img859.imageshack.us/i/visjequitsduetonetcode.jpg/

15) no punkbuster = cheaters win (see latest cheaters)
http://img600.imageshack.us/i/2yyr484.png/

btw sync: vect0r aka spicybabe is still playing (check his ip = same). :)

16) consistent downtime, lag, http://img706.imageshack.us/i/weresorrybutanerrorhaso.jpg/

The population this time last year was at best 84,000 in march 2010
http://img600.imageshack.us/i/2yyr484.png/
and at best 58,000 somewhere in december, but that's highly debateable
http://img863.imageshack.us/i/lololo.jpg/

since then it has died and died hard. (see screenshots). 5,000+ (unique users/day - see screenshot) x 7 DAYS = half the population (about 34,755 - see first screenshot). With Europe's population = 10x that of the NA population (based on last years ql.bot) it's not hard to see why 3,500 us players (see 2nd screenshot) = a niche game already. With the spike in ping in europe, it's not hard to fathom a reduction of players in europe as well.
http://img827.imageshack.us/i/qlpopulation.jpg/
http://img855.imageshack.us/i/qluniqueusersperday.jpg/
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/qlusdecline.jpg/
http://img8.imageshack.us/i/qlpageviews.jpg/
http://img163.imageshack.us/i/qlpageviews2.jpg/

i projected around 40,000 last year already, but by that first population screenshot it appears to have dipped below that once again (about 34,755 now). hell i took the following screenshot last august (when leaderboard was already stuck which clearly shows the last page (# of frags) and how only 12,000+ people had 17 frags or more. That tells you that (if there were 58,000 players last december according to sponge) 46,000 of them were already abandoned (5 to 1 ratio). If we applied that 5 to 1 ratio now then (34,755 / 5 ) only about 7,000 active accounts are left.
http://img5.imageshack.us/i/bottomvw.jpg/

you can't hide this fact anymore id, no matter how much you spin it or no matter how many awards or features you hide (leaderboard - which showed the same last august allready)
http://img863.imageshack.us/i/hidingthetruth.jpg/

and last but not least, syncerror himself said he's had numerous conversations with his team in regards to the netcode and their decision not to fix it (see screenshot).
http://img850.imageshack.us/i/nonetcodechange.jpg/

That coupled with ping issues (low > high) make it very hard for the majority of gamers to enjoy quake live at it's fullest. Without lan support, this game was DOA.

gg

bet you are that retard crying in the incubus thread about 'tierslumming' fuck off

17) no ponies, no win

create an account here ray! you can read timezones right and might get plussed! I don't have no opinion on what you said tho!

Good post and i agree. I had faith but i will not renew my subscription theres no value in it.

in nonetcodechange.jpg syncerror states that they won't create a model shaped like a rectangular cuboid to represent the hitbox

this is not connected to fixing the netcode

Man thats a big list of empty cups, thanks god there enough mojo in Quakelive for me, a lot of players active in my area, whereas in latest osp/cpm years it was quite difficult to arrange a decent match. Trying to improve the game is good, calling dead early and doing bad publicity isnt. kbye

For population, you can always go with their own hit tracking services:

all years

last 12 months

QL is down to as many players as it had during closed beta.

ya been keepign track of those.

btw: did you see the #1 site (sites that also visit ql.com) in that list at bottom in the 2nd link?
http://q3fl.impulse12.com/

released 2/27/11

pretty cool flash q3 game, best quality of all q3 games i've seen so far and this one seems pretty on par with the direction ql is going.

seems pretty on par with the direction ql is going.

:D

not this again, searches are not proportional to active players

That would be unique website hits, not searches. THIS is searches.

(note the option to switch between checking searches and website traffic near the top)

ah my bad
google calculates the hits based on their ads on the site or where to they get the data?

From the embedded tracking content on each page.

2. How is the data in Trends for Websites generated?
Trends for Websites combines information from a variety of sources, such as aggregated Google search data, aggregated opt-in anonymous Google Analytics data, opt-in consumer panel data, and other third-party market research. The data is aggregated over millions of users, powered by computer algorithms, and doesn't contain personally identifiable information.

so its an estimation and not the actual visitor number (and even that would not be the same as active users but only hint in a general direction)

the also visited table is also quite funny, #1 is "impulse12.com/" (i guess this is from http://q3fl.impulse12.com/ - the flash q3 site) this already shows you how inaccurate the stats are

The visited table shows the sites that people share in common the most with the site. Ergo, if someone had linked that site on the QL forums, and a lot of people clicked it, it would raise to the top. ESR used to be at the top, so it's a recent trend.

It's a consistent estimation, as it doesn't keep some info and throw out others. Even if you want to argue that it isn't perfect (which I have never argued anyway), the same techniques that showed the huge spike at the start are the ones that now show less than 10% of the starting user base.

The only reason I ever started using google trends was because id started lying during closed beta. They obviously forgot that they had a "users online" counter on the site, which quickly disappeared after I had brought up the discrepancy in players. The trends during closed beta showed that roughly 1/100 people who were invited to the game had stuck with it, and it seems that it was an accurate trend.

YEAH!!!!!
I'VE BEEN TO A LAN TOURNAMENT WHERE IZ MY AWARD?!?!?!?!?!?!111

5$ for award or it didnt happened

QL could be so great, if they'd just make the right changes. Maybe they should institute a more democratic development model? At this point, the community knows better than id. It's not even theoretical. It's obvious, an intelligent democracy is better than a biased aristocracy (pro-gamer focus groups), or a full dictatorship (id software by itself).

Intelligent democracy is an oxymoron

It's simple... id should offer a list of possible changes for each patch, and let the community pick x amount of them. The customer is always right. With the level of interaction possible through the internet, a company can easily offer a democratic business model.

As an example, id could say:

For the next patch, we will do two of the following:

GTV
Ladders
New Maps
Improved Netcode

Whichever two receive the most votes, will be the two done.

It's that simple. And if there are things people would like that are not on the list, they can be added to future patch-elections. Obviously, no company is capable of doing every single thing people want in every patch, which is the reason we would vote on only x amount of possibilities.

how about:

For the next patch, we will do two of the following:

GTV
LAN
Ladders
New Maps
Improved Netcode

Democracy does not work when the voters are morons. That's the problem with the United States. Too many people are dumb, and therefore easily manipulated into voting for the wrong things (and people). But in a micro-managed state, such as a business, or an organization; let's say, the organization is scientific, and all the voters are scientists (meaning, they all have phd's, or other high-degree's, and years if not decades of scientific study and practice); in this case, the democracy succeeds, because every voter is intelligent. I've talked to people, who have good jobs, and make good money, and you'd think they would be adequate voters... but, some of these people are so dumb, you'd be astounded. One person I talked to was so poor-minded, he said, with conviction, that the Chinese and Japanese are two different races. You don't have to take anthropology to know the difference between races and countries or cultures. And that's the plight of the United States... the people are fucking retarded. I don't mean to offend actual retarded people, but sometimes I think even 'non-retarded' people actually do have mental disabilities. Imagine a democracy where all the people were mentally disabled, except the politicians. It would be nothing but what the United States is, which is the subversion and manipulation of democracy - voters being essentially tricked or duped into voting one way or the other.

In the case of our community, the people are intelligent. They are educated. They know the game, they know what should be done. A democratic model, in our case, works significantly better than an aristocratic model (which is, in all cases, excessively biased), or a dictatorial model, which is probably more biased than aristocratic, and also more deluded.

If you need evidence, look at Finland. Their focus on education has led them to the most free and successfully democratic society in the world. Imagine the same thing, but even more concentrated, into sub-communities, such as our own. This community is not a country and each person is a sort of specialist. That enables us to be even more successfully democratic than the best nation-democracies.

"In the case of our "QL" Forum community, the people are intelligent. They are educated. They know the game, they know what should be done".

Yes and no

1) you have people in the community who just joined ql and who are used to being in communities that are very upbeat and enthusiastic who start posting on the ql forums with replies in the following order:

a) QL is great! (day 1)
b) Give QL a chance, yes there's some issues, but i'm sure they'll be fixed (day 20)
c) I've noticed a lot of lag lately. i hope it's fixed.(day 45)
e) Why haven't these problems been fixed? (day 90)
f) i stopped caring last year, i just play now (day 365)
g) oh hai everyone.just stopped by to say hello. this game still exists? lol. well hf everyone, imma go ride my unicorns. (year 2)

1a) lochdog, xtruder

2) people who came from q3 who know every single cvar, and understand that paying for maps twice is ridiculous, yet their hardcore nature towards quakelore gets them signed up for premium and pro. Then they regret it afterwards when they realize how much better q3 is... and how little the dev team does to enhance their ability to enjoy QL...

2a) visje, stahlaal, poros1ty

3) people who know the game in and out, having played close to 15,000 qL games collectively, they know everyone in the community and post extensively on the net, they've contributed highly to QL, yet their posting styles in the past got them labeled as trolls. despite their knowledge they have no power to do anything about the state of the game...

3a) gilchrist, raythenoob, krailed

4) people close to or part of the development team, who have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of ql and it's goals yet with little playing time under their belt to really understand the true nature of the game on QL...

4a) syncerror...

5) people who play a lot, are part of focusgroup and who the development team listens to for advice. They are however also exploiting bugs and/or part of the overall problem and doing more damage than good.

5a) incubus...

6) pros who play a lot on QL and who have been around for ages who truly know the game and the fixes it needs and whose opinion are closer to fact than fiction.

6a) jones, gpig, seanage, filo, xdc, yakumo, crucci

7) people who have tried to help in the past who were never heard and gave up trying. They may or may not still play, but they certainly don't waste their time in the suggestions forum anymore...

7a) rexcramer, imiol, raythenoob, wobbo, windam,

8) people who have made 3rd party programs to help move QL along, only to be met with a letter from id to halt operations, or with bugs that stymied progress

8a) i don't have the list in front of me right now, but there's a lot, and most of them stopped posting once the old forums were "abruptly" removed, without notice i should mention, something, a lot of us have forgotten, which really HURT QL in regards to the amount of content that was lost. Whether or not id copied them before deleting them is up for debate and something only focus might know, but it just shows how little attention the development team does in regards to planning...

9) people who believe they'll end up on the QL development team or who are part of focus incognito or actual alias accounts of syncerror and co. These people constantly praise every little thing id does and never admit fault when things go wrong

9a) boxybabee aka domino, tucker_, anhedonic, jason_, pikaluva13

10) complete idiots who have no clue what they're talking about and who should have been banned ages ago

10a) quakerdoom, illergen, xxbookwormxx, gotti

11) people with bipolar disorder, who may know a thing or 2 about the game and it's predecessor. However, one day they love ql, the next they rage about it. it's hard to take them serious.

adderall, ketnar,

12) people who are on the brink...

12a) effinlag_, limblesspony, quakeestreme, icey_pain, verizon, relove, marklar, ouxoiga

12) people who never go on the forums and who cause nothing but chaos in the game itself, eg: teamkilling, stacking, tierslumming, racism. They should have been banned ages ago but they either found loopholes to prevent being caught, stopped playing already, got an alias, or have ties with the development team

12a) incubus, av8r, weirdwolf, detlew, herc01, lollercopter, Q_adrian, gragor, unh0ly11

13) cheaters who haven't been banned

13a) vect0r aka spicybabe (same ip, banned once already for cheating on spicybabe accnt)

14) people who have done a complete 180 from their negative position on ql last august (i only know two...).

14a) muffinman (as you may remember he leaked the new payment info on his website and new maps (slasher only copy pasted syncs post from the focus group subforum sticky - btw slasher is no longer banned ). and DCR (he was very helpful pre-beta, but then stopped posting for a long time and got bitter, now since subscriptions were announced he's all gungho for id

15) people who will soon give up knowing their help isn't appreciated or whose cries for change have gone unheard

15a) DDF
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...p-Priority

16) people who play on Ql, whose game time rivals that only of kittenignition and raythenoob but never post or interact with the community outside the game. They know a lot of the issues in the game but don't voice them...

tandersoh1...

So yes, there are some knowledgeable people in the QL community (so many more i could list (don't have list in front of me) but you get the idea. Some have power and some don't, but there's also a lot of bad eggs. Either way, in the end, everything id is doing and continues to do is either by the advice of bethesda or a few in focus or close to the development team. that hasn't and isn't going to change. Hence why the game moves forward at snails pace....

Maybe someone can make a list like this for QL's IRC community and one for ESR. Overall, it's the greater good that could have changed the course of this game, but again, a select few are currently dictating things as they have for the past 2 years and most of those people were part of the group invited by syncerror in the early days of Ql's closed beta period (post July 8th, 2008).Sure they've made some headway and some of that advice was helpful, but more voices would have helped things move along at a faster rate than that of a snail (6-8 months is ridiculously slow in regards to adressing problems in a major sequel game... (it doesn't matter how small of a development team they have).

It doesn't make sense for bethesda to fund id (again as they did last christmas) only to limit the team working on the game they are funding. They should have either gone all out or gave up. It doesn't make sense to keep QL as a niche game only as a test for future browser games or to show off their might as a breakthrough development company doing something noone has done before. Might as well move it back to closed beta then.

At this rate, id is only hurting it's own image and moving people away from quake forever as the negatives associated with QL's failures as a game will only tarnish the image of soon to be released id games like rage and possibly games associated with Bethesda itself (brink, etc). Id should disconnect itself from bethesda imo as bethesda is really to blame at the moment (since they can apparently tell id dev team exactly what can or can't be said to the public)

Bethesda has to be aware that the state of the game is in decline. For their sake and for the future of QL they better make the right decision come quakecon 2011 and the majority of the community agrees that the dealbreaker might be in regards to doing away with premium and/or making all premium maps free for standard users to increase the population again. Then again, for many, the exclusion of a ladder, GTV, lan support are inexcusable and will continue to inhibit the growh of the game, regardless of opinion. One word to prove that right; Warcraft 3 (still very much alive and kicking after all these years thanks to the modding community (and the fact that they can customize the game).

Which brings us back to the last piece of the puzzle, the inability for the community to contribute.... (no mapping contests, no real input from the dev team on current or past contributions (only sparingly here on ESR (new scoreboard), etc.). So once again it's in the hands of the few in focus or those who yell loud enough to be heard on IRC, ESR, and the internetz.

You're running out of time id, you're losing customers every day. Perhaps the "trolls" of the community or the people you've alienated after all these years, might just know what they're talking about and maybe if you'd listen you could actually win them back and save this game. It's truly your call but mark my words, quakecon 2011 will most definitely be either the final of the coffin for many or the start of a new beginning.

and in id's defense (yes i'm not the antichrist), To bethesda: All in or All out. Make a choice. This half in strategy is clearly not working... Not giving id the ability to GIVE FEEDBACK TO ITS COMMUNITY and not giving id the resources (manpower) it needs to turn things around is unacceptable (something i'm sure syncerror would tell you to your face if he had the power to do so (without chance of losing his job over it).

YOU ARE LOSING CUSTOMERS BETHESDA AND FAST. START PAYING ATTENTION TO THE TRENDS OR KISS ANY FUTURE BROWSER BASED GAME YOUR COMPANY PUTS OUT GOODBYE (cuz no idiot is going to put any time and effort into "Doom live" after seeing how you've managed this game.)

id has manpower, there carmack and 99 teaboys

probably too many bad people are involved now in id ...
had the same problem in my clan after we beat the best german team ... then we were known in the community and everyone wanted to get in and that idiot of clanleader signed to members that were of no use, maybe there were good, but not definately good enough to meet our standards ... then I just quit, needless to say the clan disbanded one month after ... seems the same is happening in id ...
they recruited too much unproductive garbage in their teams ... after their successes with the first versions of doom/quake ...

anyway let's get quakeworld on the web :-),
maybe add a railgun to it (with only 40 damage or something, so it's only sometimes used in longdistance and is not anymore a main weapon, yeah there are games out there where there is no weaponbalance, and the game can still rock ) ...

4 pages with a res of 1680x1050, are you fucking serious?

wat

you sir have issues.

BORING NOT READING IT, TOO LONG

"In the case of our community, the people are intelligent. They are educated. They know the game, they know what should be done."

As a professional interaction designer and former community manager in another fps franchise I would say that all of the above statements are false.....

I'd be seriously ashamed and reconsider my life values if I were aged 30+ and still felt the need to write humongous walls of text in regards to a silly online FPS game, complaining about netcode, random e-people leaving the game and tierslumming, which is not something you're concerned about once you reach a certain age or point in life.

Whoever you are Ray, I'm deeply impressed you care so much about incubus' IP and all his fake nicks and stats.

You don't see me jumping around the forums praising id, I might be biased but I still have my own grudges with QL and its respective dev team which is doing next to nothing in order to reach a broader audience and fixing urgent bugs. However, every redundant complaint from the community is not 100% accurate or rational.

Actually i've only posted about 5 or 6 "huge walls of text" since last october when i first made that initial post on incubus. highly irregular of me, but also taking up less than 5 hours of time to post (about an hour or so per post). I guarantee i've probably spent less time playing ql than anyone who's anyone left in the community, including xtruder. That's how little time i spend on it these days.

I don't complain about the netcode, don't know enough about it. I do however believe stackers and tierslumming has killed NA ctf(my once favorite gametype). Again, these problems aren't as apparent on european servers and games there still exist at all times of the day. pth, lollercopter and incubus' scores are amusing at first, but when you look at the shear number of games played like that by those 3 individuals it's easy to see how it has decimated the playerbase in that gametype.

I give you credit for being honest, but do tell me, where have you made these claims; that "dev team which is doing next to nothing in order to reach a broader audience and fixing urgent bugs". I've never seen you post that anywhere. A simple link will suffice.

I definetely believe you should reconsider your own strategy of telling customers they don't have a right to complain by calling them whiners. It only causes more rage. There's a reason many of them come on the ql forums (or here) to vent (because nothing is being done to stop stackers/tierslummers/spikes in ping of late/teamkillers/in game racism (no demo should be needed to curtail this),their inability to purchase a sub due to lack of payments, getting hung up on the ad screens, etc etc simple things that other online games usually stomp down on in short order (before they get out of hand like they have in quake live...,)

If id would only have held up to their own promise to start communicating with the community as they claimed they would do last september, then less "whine" posts would be made all over the net.

I'm not sure if you were around in 2009, but id never formally adressed the 70 page "friends list" thread i had stickied in the now defunct beta tech support forum. The issues were later adressed (partially) but it grew to 70 pages without even one reply by a developer. That was when my own grudge for id began. Did you know i played the first 5 months on quake live alone? without the ability to communicate or contact the 200+ people i had on my friends list without running into them in games?!! ya fun times. That's what got me on the forums myself. Was that whine? no, it was a legitimate issue that yakumo stickied. And who was trying to find a fix for it? basically just me, and did id give me any feedback? no. Ofcourse when they fixed the issues, they negated to mention how. For all i know i helped find the fix for them but ofcourse they won't give me credit for it so they look like geniuses themselves (Part of the frustration for many people in this community when id simply does something without giving any regard for the individuals who helped in the process, even if it's simply a suggestion)

check out the pirates of the burning sea forums sometime. Every single person who helps out is given credit, not just by name dropping them into exclusive items but they are also given free credits and in-game-gear. Id does nothing to give back to the community. People like kittenignition have spent literally days finding bugs over the years and testing things. Guys like him should have been given free premium for his efforts. Guys like combo who made all the offline map packs available. People like windam who made a cool secret awards list for id. People like crucci,etc (too many to name) who make awesome guides that id has yet to merge with their own #guide. I could literally go on for days with the number of people who have contributed to ql only to be ignored.

hell even quakerdoom, as dumb as he is, has attempted to make a map. But there's no incentive for anyone to do so now . Sure people contribute out of the "love" for the game. But in most communities (even in blizzard's cmmunities), contributions are met with feedback, recognition & praise and awards. That's simple marketing 101. Id does nothing to involve the community into its game. Hell i had 8 extensive resourceful stickies on the old forum, did i ever even get a thank you from syncerror. even one? the answer is no. Does yakumo? yes. Why? because yakumo's knowledge of cvars, etc has directly affected the direction of the game. But id has never thought about how individuals within the community can affect the bottom line down the road. They never considered the "collective" and the ability of the collective to carry this game forward. no. Instead they focused on a few select "pro" individuals who had a lot experience coming from q3 or even q4 and totally negated the "noobs" who, most of whom are now well into their 2nd year on quake live and who have in the meantime, arguably made just as many contributions as those older "pros" that id once revered.

It's time id gives weight to the community as a whole and deals with it. By communicating with it for starters and honestly sync, the excuse you drum up on irc that you're not allowed to disclose anything in fear of breach of contract by bethesda is getting old. Simply replying people's posts on the forum and here on esr is enough. yes it's tme consuming but if it erks you that much, hire a damm spokesperson for the game for 5 dollars an hour. I'm sure you can afford that with the 80k you're raking in a year (at least).Or get some more volunteers to do the job (make another post on the forum that you're looking for people to help advertise the game on other sites).

In the end, little things like that will help bring in more customers over time.

id continues to put all efforts towards pro tournaments, etc. While i love their dedication to e-sport, it's simply a minority compared to the overall userbase on quakelive.com. The majority of us are just casual gamers. That doesn't mean we care abuot quake live any less. Instead, focus should be put on making the game playable and giving a more clear indication for its shortcomings (ping issues, lag) and how they can be prevented. People shouldn't have to search through 1000's of posts to find a fix for the most notable problems. They also shouldn't have to go on irc (and wait for days sometimes for sync to reply) or wait for weeks to get a reply from ordus via email. I've been saying that for well over a year now and just like everything else, nothing has changed... (believe me i do get tired of repeating myself, but i'm just documenting these things to show a time period of how things have unfolded and how they will continue to unfold as i'm almost positive nothing will continue to change up untill at least quakecon (since we know it takes them 2.5 months to prepare for it) so expect one more udpate in may or late april (probably 2 or 3 maps at best and a cvar and nothing else) and then small web or invisible updates coupled with 10 devpicks leading up to quakecon. Don't laugh because you know it's true.

But again, all of this comes down to the size (lack thereof) of the development team and bethesda's inability to "go all in".

The attention span of the average gamer is 3-6 months/game. It's also clear that the majority of players have already come over from q3. That leaves only clueless individuals with no knowledge whatsoever of quake and it's differences from cod and other popular fps shooters, to make up for the people who have left quakelive.com in the past year since subscriptions were announced. If those people have no "guides" or "direction" from the developers, they will rage and/or quit and/or seek direction from less 'legitimate" sources. They definetely won't be getting direction from teh friends who urged them to come to quakelive.com because they're just as clueless at this point. (i've had to do a lot of research and talk to a lot of people over the past 2+ years to know what i know, something most people playing this game don't take the time to do (because they are used to being in a community where things are fixed on a time manner, etc).

There's a reason the bounce rate (for quakelive.com) has increased and why the number of page views have decreased. There's a serious lack of info on the actual site (quakelive.com) that most people end up having to go elsewhere to find it. And guess what they find on other sites. Links and resources to other games...

Sync used to post here all the time, and was supposed to have been given some "community manager" title or such. It ended when his wife started posting here, and made a damn fool of herself. He raged, abused his admin rights, and they both stopped posting here. Any communication that id promised, it won't be for this site. =P

Where's posts by his wife?

I have found both lillie and sync to be thoroughly unpleasant online. People who met them at qcon always say they are the bee's knees in real life. It's difficult for me to reconcile these two perspectives but w/e.

It started around this, and spiraled into a ton of other threads. ESR is a bitch to search, so they'll be tough to track down.

She started her own "Female Players Association", and ESR didn't take kindly to her feminist bullshit. It started with constructive criticism, and turned into a huge fight. Sync had to keep taking his wife's side, and this ended up causing Sync hate. He eventually started editing/deleting posts and such, denied doing so (despite other admins being able to see clearly that he did it), and then just stopped entirely. He made some comments that he was going to stop going to ESR for feedback, and tried to justify it by saying that ESR is a small representation of the Quake community.

This thread is still one of the best example I could ever find of someone completely missing their own point.

Ladies, I present your booth blokes:

rofl please drag those posts up, sounds hilarious.

OMG ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

The attention span of the average gamer is 3-6 months/game.


Well not long enough for these novels you type

Syncerror = fucking noob that doesn't know how to run quakelive
incubus = fucking pussy that rages when i hunt him on my alt accounts
raythenoob = fucking nolifer, im not gonna read long posts by anonymous, you fat fuck. log in or gtfo

lol@ql community

I'm just really sad how a game with such enormous potential is dieing. Due to reasons that only Id can be held responsible for.

hihihihihi never pay for smthng on ze internet = win

An in game ladder system would have helped this game. A LOT.

A real ad system couldn't have hurt either. own3d.tv figured it out. The idiots who coded this browser game didn't.

I wonder if its possible for id to hand over development to someone that actually cares. Although its probably too late.

Speaking of ads, closing in on three months now with the IE9 ad that hangs and stops the game from loading. Way to be on top of things.

I wonder when they'll stop taking subscription payments.

temp fix, recieved from sponge after i got it like 14 times in a row... hit ctrl+f5 then reconnect, it should cycle ads

id has great way of displaying ads on the ingame map banners, it doesn't interfere with gameplay and it exposes ads to players for almost the whole duration of the game. Yet they don't use this opportunity at all and instead annoy players by forcing them to view ads before game...

They tried that in 2009. It didn't work out too well.

Even the best thing in the world can be implemented by id software in such way that it wouldn't work out too well.

They don't use it because:

a) no person advertising with banners is going to bother making banners specifically to quake live, that you can't click. Not to mention those ads come out mangled if you tweak your cfg enough.

b) fuck id.

I'm just stuck on the ad thing because I feel like if it was done right, it could have led to payouts for playing. Which is what quake needs because the 1v1 fps genre isn't popular enough on its own to keep players around.

how is own3d's any better?
- both are 30 secs (own3d a little longer) with no option to skip after n secs
- both hang in the background (own3d doesnt start pre-buffering the video and QL doesnt connect to the server)

the only difference with own3d is you get ads midway through too which i assume you dont want while running back to base with flag in hand

own3d's are better because advertisers actually want to advertise there and own3d actually makes money. No one cares about advertising in QL. How do I know? Because I've only seen two different ads in QL. Ever.

what does that have to do with their system? maybe they just prefer their ads on streams (reaching a wider range of gamers?) than QL

yet another fag complaint thread by people who cannot estimate map/design/programming work effort and have unreal expectations

Let me test your estimation skills.
Imagine a hypothetical situation, for example, a bug with server browser. Let's say that it worked perfectly at some point, and then after some update it stopped displaying correctly nearby servers for people at some specific location (for example, let's say that the bug is that if you are in country A, it doesn't display country A servers at all)
Please give your estimation, how long it should realistically take for this bug to be fixed, assuming that QL team has been properly notified of the issue.

even if your assumption is correct, you cannot estimate fix ETA without knowing complexity of the problem. Is that configuration issue? Coding issue? Ping issue? Routing Issue? Hosting issue?

That's actually the point of estimation that we don't know everything to determine something for certain, and we guess the most reasonable answer.
But if it would be better for you, let's just assume for simplicity the worst case possible, for example, it's ALL of the above. Your estimate, what is reasonable time for id to fix it?
Or even, let's not estimate time to fix, but let's rather simply estimate how long it should take id to answer the same your question, i.e. determine in which part of the system the issue resides?
Let's even make it the most simple: how long do you think it should take to just test if the issue described to id by customer really exists?

you're missing the point. Time is of the essence. This idea that quake live can pick up where it left off 5 years after the fact (like in 2014 for example) and regain the playerbase that has currently left the game, is not realistic.

Once people have a bad experience with a game, they are not apt to return regardless of any positive changes that took effect.

There's not a single player that hasn't experienced some type of bug. Hell when i was playing world of warcraft i never once experienced any bugs that kept me from enjoying the game as it was advertised. In ql however, it has happened to me literally 100's of times and that's no joke (i've played over 8000 ql games)

so to answer your troll reply, there's a reason people are complaining and i'ts also apparent that you know nothing abuot quake live and how it's being run into the ground. So please, stop living in lala land and go back to wherever you came from (i'm guessing id headquarters)

experience varies with personality
Your personality is knit picking the most disregardable things if you say you ran into bugs 100 of times. I played this game since first days and I never-ever cared or was affected by some re-occurring bug that cared enough about to bitch and moan and threaten to leave this game. Serious bugs are always fixed promptly, again, from my _personal_ point of view.

Relax bro. Enjoy the game and stop being so anal.

Give it some time. Even icey_pain, who was probably the biggest fan of ql last september, has made a complete u-turn. But i'm sure you'll come back later this year and say everything is going perfect and that id is the best company in the world!!!!!!!!!!!! just to try to prove me wrong lol. but tell you what, you can be taht 6th person in my list of asskissers if you'd like. Just keep posting as you are and i'll add you on.

There's this thing called constructive criticism. Just because people complain doesn't mean their points aren't valid. Only an unintelligent person would use the whine rebuttal to negate the truth.

But apparently you've never been in a situation where, as a customer, you felt wronged. Congrats on that. Once you get out of puberty and out of your parents house, you'll find things aren't so perfect in the real world.

Are you really this bitter about not being a mod raythenoob? That's what I've gathered from all of it.

Don't get me wrong, I think ray is quite insane, but he is touching on something that is absolutely true here.

Very very few updates involve things that the community asked for. Most of the updates involve things with a trivial implementation, indicating that they spend a relatively small amount of time on them.

That would be fine and understandable (would make sense to spend resources on bigger money makers), except that they have made an effort to indicate that they've got a team constantly in the office working countless hard hours a day.

Then there are plenty of things with a trivial implementation that community _does_ want but never gets. So where they get their ideas for changes is the subject of much confusion.

Still, even this would be forgivable with a modicum of the right kind of community contact, something they appear to have an almost religious objection to.

So there remains every indication that there's a wonderful potential not being fulfilled, and money to be made or at least prevented from being lost, but the opportunity is not seized. I've tried desperately to understand the seemingly nonsensical development path that QL has taken and these are some of my conclusions:

* There is very little development energy put into the game, perhaps 95 % administration and 5 % development. This has been the case since the Open Beta.

* The total amount of resources here of that 100 % is vastly lower than that you would encounter in any major title. These resources have increased slightly since QL came out of Beta, mainly due to the influx of profits. Most notably the hiring of Ordus to help with administration tasks and to handle customer service.

* Other than SyncError, the QL team is for the most part forbidden to make public statements. They can chat casually with users but must be extremely careful with what they say, and because of this they usually prefer to keep communication to a minimum. This is understandable.

* Anecdotal evidence would suggest that the majority of the work put in to QL updates is done by SyncError himself, on a very part time basis.

* My own personal perspective on the matter is that Sync has a very, very difficult time handling criticism, and an especially difficult time with those that speak immaturely. For this reason he shies away from reading community feedback, and acts on opinions that are rather disconnected from QL's users. These are very problematic qualities for a team leader of a game like QL.

* What you're seeing is mostly the result of one person who is given a short amount of time to develop the game and has their own strange (to us) ideas about which direction to go with it. Trivial implementations are preferred (an attempt to make the largest impact with the least amount of resources), but often the ones are chosen that the community has little interest in. Bug fixes can be non-trivial for sure.

* Anecdotal evidence suggests that there is not a lack of technical competence on the part of the QL team, but a lack of time in which to use their expertise.

* There are also appears to be a lack of proper testing, sometimes even minimal testing appears not to be present. Again this indicates a lack of development time, as testing would be the last part of the process.

* We hear almost nothing about QL's administration, but I am sure that this is where the bulk of the resources Id has spared on it have gone. So there is certainly some struggle that has gone completely behind the scenes.

[+]'d.

People asked for the q3 xhairs back since they got rid of them years ago. What do we get? Q4 xhairs and things like smoke radius cvars and killbeeps. They were in the game for a while previously, would it really be that difficult to add/re-enable them again? If qlive dev(s?) are going for randomness they're doing one hell of a job. Then again I'm sure they'll be added... as a premium feature, hahaha.

Seems to be no rhyme or reason to it aside from finding some of the most obscure and shittiest q3 maps to add to qlive.

I already know this. I knew it would happen. That's why I don't play. He tries so hard to exploit what every person playing this game already knows, and to even exploit things such as "tier slumming" that no one really cares about, stalking players he has personal vendettas against. It's the same with QL mods and devs. I'm not saying there isn't truth behind what he says. I'm saying he is trying too hard for an audience that doesn't care. He shouldn't care. Getting riled up over nothing and devoting time to it even though it won't make any difference whatsoever seems a pointless endeavor.

"He tries so hard to exploit what every person playing this game already knows"

...the exact opposite. 99% of the playerbase has no clue what's going on, the direction the game is taking, the past and how it relates to the future, etc etc. people on esr might know but you're not going to tell me the vast majority of players exist here on esr are you? its' obviously the most popular quake site but it still comprises a very small amount of ql players in comparison.

why don't people know what's going on? here's why: You have 5+ groups of people in ql:

1)most never go on the ql forums. they just play (easily 90%)
2) the ones that do, usually go on to complain about tech issues only to get heckled by guys like tucker_ etc (stop whining, u mad?, etc etc) so they stop posting all together.
3) then you have people who came straight from cod/cs/etc who don't even know anything about quake and it's past titles (q1,q2, etc) and as such the success of those titles in comparison with quake live. And due to their lack of knowledge, they don't post, or get involved in the community at all.
4)then out of the above 3 groups, 75% of those people don't care (3-6 month attention span, they just play and move on aka casual gamers, which makes up a large bulk of any game, although at this point it's fair to say it may actually start becoming the minority again with how ql population levels have reached q3 closed beta numbers again (when only the hard core players existed).
5) then you have a group of the playerbase that has given up (feel powerless, ignored, tired of caring or all 3). Most of the contributors that helped spark ql to it's first successful year (and only; eg, 2009) are no longer around. (don't make me list them because i can and will)


+_____________+


oh and to lorfa: in regards to incubus, yes, i'm quite insane about him, but mainly because i know the reasons for why he's protected and it has to do with lillie and i actually find her to be counterproductive to the game if she's willing to protect incubus over what's good for the masses.

and yes i agree with pretty much everything you said as i remember having convos with syncerror in the summer of 2009 and clearly remember him stating his desire to continue his aspirations of keeping quake live an e-sport game and coupled with that his insistence of keeping out things that would derail that quest (gibs, etc). it truly seems to be what "he wants" as opposed to be, what's best for the game.

It's always been a dictatorship. The joke about Cvar updates in 2009 may have dissapated (because they're now drowned in between a slew of fixes and maps in his update posts, as opposed to updates in 2009 that were just cvars), but they still hold true. I've known close to 20 people from focus and none of them have ever told me they asked for or requested id (or sync in this case) to add them into the game. So sync's updates are truly "his" updates.

But where is Bethesda in all of this? Are they really putting all faith into one person? One person who is obviously not fit to lead? if he can't handle criticism, which is very much true (since he stopped talking to me the moment i had even one negative thing to say about ql to him on irc in july 2009), then why is he leading? Is he the only person qualified to run ql? really?

the average noob might not realize how little time it takes to add cvars, vertex lighting in maps and typing a post (at least for me, maybe sync types with his index finger lol), but it's sadly true. The seriously time consuming updates, that people have been calling for haven't surfaced and only appear to show up at quakecon (perhaps to help stimulate the event and get people to show up)

i'd plus your post but i haven't been able to login for 8 months now. Major props to anyone (you) who has the balls to see things for what they are. Optimism is great but that kind of analogy (cup is half full) is just not working as evidenced by the sheer # of people who took a u-turn from their original opinions of id's 2010 quakecon update (subscr. model).

And yes, there is very little testing involved in these updates, hence why so many bugs present themselves shortly after the fact and why i personally laugh everytime i see someone call a "fix" an update.

Again + x 10

You're posting on ESR. You're venting on ESR, nothing more. No one really cares here because we all are aware of the state of the game, its decline, its inevitable end, id's incompetence in their project, their unwillingness to save what once had huge potential. Most definitely, no one cares about shitty players like incubus.

Every game is on its decline, its inevitable end. Google "product life cycle", drama queen.
Only thing they can do to pour life into the game is to expand their marketing of a free and always* available game.... misc. bug fixing isn't gonna do shit.

btw its id not ID, retard. You judge a complex beast like you know wtf youre talking about but fail miserably at spelling the name of the company hahaha FAIL.

if i write it as ID it's to differentiate it from i'd which many people read when they see id (i would). You afil at starting an argument to negate the facts in this thread made by myself and others who are unhappy with id's (happy?) practices and the general direction this game is going in).

You creating another thread called "LOVE ID" is only making it more apparent your'e either part of the dev team and butthurt your product is being questioned or someone i should add to my list of brownosers which at this point you definetely qualify for.

try harder next time

u mad? :D

Im entitled to my opinion, and its that i enjoy playing QuakeLive a lot. The universe trying to balance the equation.

And just a week or so ago you were complaining that people were correcting each other's spelling.

(troll fail)

How lacking an apostrophe or a "s" in the middle of a thread is the same as spelling wrongly the name of the company your judging in the thread title? Cmon troll you can do better than that, don be so obvious with your lack of common sense.

OH YES CAPITALIZATION FAIL

makes it incomprehensible

No, talks about sloppy behaviour, lack of attention to details of the stuff hes talking bout, not exactly the kind of guy you want judging a rather complex project like QuakeLive. If you hadnt such biased view, you should have realized truth many posts ago. Keep comparing oranges to apples bro, fits your intelect well.

You are being inconsequent, not me.

Enough of getting trolled, that's all from me.

hope a meteorite falls on earth's surface and takes you all to the deepest part of hell along with your shitty discussions

Updating on Easter Monday is very smart especially in the evening (CET). Morons ...

yes deciding on a minimal 2 days of downtime during the holidays is brilliant indeed

it's already back online

dont be so possitive dude, this is esr where sad campers come to cry about the features they need so badly that the rest of what already is isnt worth it, classic of egomaniacs :D

Play more first. There's a reason why so many of us have given up on quake live or on the edge. If you'd open your mind and paid attention to what has/is happened/happening with this game you'd see the same trends we see. But right now, you just sound unaware and naive.

p.s; i hope, for your sake, you're not a developer in disguise, that would be quite unfortunate for you.

Im just a die hard fan that has worked enough on my ego to realize it would be stupid to kill the genre i love cause i dont get gtv, etc. Yes i would enjoy those features, but for me its more important to have something decent to play now, than wishing perfection. You seem like a rational guy, dont you think the balance is actually too much pro-whine in esr towards Quakelive? I still remember what you guys already forgot, we all have different opinions and priorities, you should show more respect towards a company that is keeping alive a project mainly for the spirit of the game not for the $$$. I dont mind if the norm here is to be negative, im proud of being grateful.

Do you really think they are keeping the project for "the spirit of the game"?

Thats not what i said. Read again.

Another big problem i've seen, especially since quakecon last year, are these pro-id ql forum members that coax users to buy subscriptions. Guys like Tucker_, Anhedonic, Yakumo, Domino are giving people bad advice. I admire their loyalty to id but they're doing a disservice to new players by recommending them to buy premium subscriptions. If they're going that route, they should at least let them know that premium servers are fleeting and .
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...o-worth-it

It's almost like they're doing it knowing those same users will come back and rage in regret. I suppose for ql forum regulars like themselves, without the "whiners" they'd be pretty bored and forced to play those overpopulated premium servers that are up every night 24/7 lololololol (that's sarcasm for you pro-id nerds that don't get it). Stop lying to new members. Tell them the truth; Premium servers hardly ever fill up...

Then you have guys like effinlag and gstructor who are very closed minded and play in a niche environment (effinlag only plays instagib and gstructor plays on a tiny playerbase in argentina). They then try to speak for the entire playerbase in north america and europe. just lol hahaha
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post126066
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post125020
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post124767

bah, thats all irrelevant if you ask me..

just give us lan servers, fixed sound code, custom maps&mods for starters...make QL as good as q3 was so many years ago :)

It's quite funny though. Like in the following thead (the latest dev post). Everyone either complains that it feels slower or the same, but the one person who thinks (so he says) it's faster is pikuluva13 (perhaps a bigger asskisser than tucker right now).
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post126801

They know they're lying and surely other ql moderators know it, definetely the devs know it so why don't any of them speak up. You never see them cross examining each other. It's like they're all in line posting the same thing one right after the other. That's why it's easy to see they're probably in an irc channel somewhere conjuring up a strategy. It reeks of desperation and the people who are actually going along with it will look back one day and realize they lost their balls in the process.

It's yet another way id is false-advertising the game (first was by marketing the game as "easily play against others at your own skill level"). This time around, it's by allowing those posts to continue. A ql forum moderator should also remove positive false posts... as it is now (removing only negative ql posts) their approach is backwards... and guys like yakumo should be held accountable for it since he's been held in charge of that forum along with a few othe select individuals.

Feels good to me, not everyone has these problems.
I've never had a major problem with ql. And pretty much all problems I've had I can fix on my end.

You can say I'm in some irc chan now, conspiring with others. But I know I'm not.

The worst thing about ql atm is people like you - coward, assumer, perfectionist, shit stirrer, cunt :)

I'll agree ray is a bit of an idiot, but he isn't the worst ql has to offer.

It just annoys me that not just in ql, but the whole world, immature and thoughtless/ignorant people go around making things worse.

Its always the same story, this or that is failing and dying, Armageddon is coming, all that shit. All it seems to boil down to is some egotistical/insecure need for them to feel 'correct', or just the immature act of doing it because they know it pisses people off. Its like wow, I pissed someone off, I feel so powerful now, what a laugh ;P Its either that or they're just so dopey that they believe it all and genuinely are trying to help, which would be ok if they weren't so stubborn about their opinion and closed minded.

What little bit of quake we have left, him and people like him are going around proudly proclaiming that its dying. Its almost like they are the ones holding the meetings on how they can spread the word.

Yeah, tell everyone its dying, then when they don't come and play it, they won't be disappointed, good logic, surely that will help ;D

good posts are dying

You need a reality check. I don't think you're in denial as much as your apparent overassociation with people who tell you what they want you to hear. You think way too highly of id and ql itself to think that noobs would stick around if it wasn't for my blatant honesty towards the game. They're not morons and they don't visit esr much if at all. It may take them longer to figure things out (took me 5-6 months as well) but they will realize the issues in the game. So really, i'm doing many of them justice by telling them beforehand so they know what to expect. It probably saves 100 whine posts on the ql forum. It lowers people's expectations because as i said, they're way too high for some like yourself. With lower expecatations, people can enjoy the game more for what it is, rather than for what it advertises itself to be (skillmatched), something which, if removed, might improve people's perception of id (that they are not false-advertising and don't come back at me with the excuse "well it would be if", cuz i know all the excuses. More tiers and players does not a true skillmatched game sitead make. AS IT STANDS NOW, it's a lie. We're living in the present.

There's a reason for my blatant disregard for id's actions and lies. It's not just personal (as many seem to think) and it's not based on the fact that i didn't become a ql forum mod (i was over that 14 months ago already). I'm one of the few people who know the intracies of the way this company is being run and the players involved with it and the way it has evolved over these past 2 years. I've reported every single update and debated each one extensively. I know what an update should look like and i know what progress should look like. And sorry, i don't agree, a few cvars here and there (which already exist) and buying the map rights to a few new maps a month is not putting time into this game. Reconfiguring the netcode and/or changing dreamweaver hypertext for quakelive.com is.

I was the one calling out cheaters on the forum and getting banned for it time and time again. Instead of pretending the problem didn't exist, i was out there telling id the problem did AND STILL DOES exist. Why? So they CAN FIX IT! What do they do instead? Remove punkbuster (give up) and urge their volunteer moderators and friends to tell noobs "you just suck" or "get better". That's simply a lie and it does more harm than good. Thats' somethign the government does. Hide things (leaderboards, awards). Mislead (ql userbase is growing), etc

Oh and let me tell you about their so called "stats". Do a search sometime on their friend finder locator and type in words containing a single letter. You'll find over a million usernames for each letter. Usernames like:

a
ab
abc
abcd
abcde
abcdef

all the way to abcdefghijklmopqrstuvwxyz

They have usernames for every possible letter combination possible in the alphabet and you're actually gullible enough to figure that data into the actual population tally? I have provided information from alexa, googletrends, the old leaderboard from last year (proving only 12,000 even had 7 frags or more and nicko has added the icing to the cake.
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...ieve-it-!-(number-of-Quake-Live-players)&p=127027&viewfull=1#post127027

If you're truly still going to believe that ql is growing than you're living underneath that geicko rock advertisement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCFMDLakxaY

There's a reason people are leaving this game since quakecon 2011 and its' not because of me. I didn't start posting about this till mid february when the problem already existed. They're leaving due to:

-lack of promised monthly updates
-lack of communication as promised
-lack of played premium servers and/or freezetag
-failed skillmatching since the reduction of tiers
-death of tdm
-dying ctf playerbase and na playerbase in general
-new games (sc2)
-still no gtv, still no alternative payment methods (paypal), 1-3 month subs
-people are bored (playing campgrounds 1000 times gets boring). 1-2 new maps every 1 1/2 months isn't keeping people around
-no custom modding community (no map contests, no reason to map period).
-lack of tournaments (if compared to last year)
-reduction in prize money and sponsors
-etc etc

That is not opinion. THAT IS FACT. You're simply ignoring the truth if you try to negate that. The blame should squarely be put on bethesda and id. They're responsible for the game's content and direction. I'm just one of the few who is openly talking about it. The main problem right now is with people like you who are part of focus (for all i know) or have intimate details about the project yet don't voice your frustrations at it's crawling progress.

Noone cares why id can't communicate (because bethesda won't let them) and noone cares that they can't update (because of quakecon or some tournament or some data transfer excuse). They simply want to see results. THE EXCUSES ARE GETTING OLD DUDE.

The truth is simple, ql is not a priority and i'm urging id to make it such before they lose their remaining playerbase. If you can't see the passion i have for this game based on that harsh reality and criticism than there's no hope explaining my 5000 played games to you. I didn't do that because i hate the game. I did that because i saw promise once. Now, not so much. I know what it will take to save this game but i really doubt its' even worth it with responses like yours. You just don't understand the reality the state of this game is in and you equate any type of negativity towards id as "whine". That may work on the ql forums but it wont' work for me. I have justifyable reasons for the negativity.

I'm just the messenger pal and again i have no problems admitting fault in my statements if you can find one. But i'm fairly certain that i'm right. Screenshots don't lie.

I have no issues with you, don't even know you. But i'd suggest you keep things in context before engaging in personal attacks. Again, i'm simply the messenger. I'm sorry i don't have more positive news for you. I actually am a "the cup is half full" kind of guy normally. Again, like i tell gstructor, feel free to prove any of my opinions-of-fact wrong. I simply call it like i see it.

Make an account already...

Some things you say I agree with, but a lot of what you say is just accusations against id, without any proof.

For example how do you know Syncerror is allowing cheaters on the public servers? Where is the proof? Thats what I don't like. If you can't back up what you're saying and its just what you believe, then don't say it until you have some proof. Instead of doing that you are making accusations and then asking other people to prove you wrong.

Another thing is you are going around saying its dying, then when people like me say its not a good thing to go around saying that, you want me to prove its not dying. But you're ignoring the main point which is it doesn't help to badmouth a game which you enjoy and don't want to see die.

I agree something should be done about the payment system, its probably one of the main reasons premium maps aren't being played much. If it had been just £3 to access the premium maps for a month, with pp payments, then more people would have been playing them from the start and would have been a nice way to keep people paying the subscription (since enough people would be playing them to justify renewing the subscription).

The skillmatching I don't know much about as I mostly only play FFA and on skill matched servers, and for me they really are.. its not that often I join a server and rape anymore. Usually when I join a skillmatched server it is skillmatched. When I play the odd duel game its the same thing... (I'm not that high tier in duel as in ffa).

Anyway I'm just playing the game and tbh I am quite enjoying it atm, aside from wanting the premium servers more populated. I don't have any problems finding a game though, any time of the day. The game is WAY more alive than Q4 was when that was dying. So I still have some hope for QL and am just waiting to see what happens over the rest of this year.

I'm not saying it can't or won't fail, but I'm not going to go on forums saying it IS. The reason why is because it doesn't really help or change anything, more likely it just puts others off, especially if you make accusations which you don't back up with proof.

1) after 3 years you'll start feeling the same way when you watch how slowly this game is progressing. Time is of the essence. id can't afford to keep moving along at this slow pace. With new games and the domination of console games, ql has got to offer something other games don't... therein lies the problem
2) the skillmatching in CTF is horrendous at best. Play 5000 games first in NA especially and tell me and everyone else that plays that gamemode i'm wrong. I'm not and i'm 100% certain of that.
3) i'm going to take a wild guess and say you're in Europe. I've always been very adamate about the fact that for people in NA, QL is dead. For euros, with a playerbase 10x+ that of NA (2009 qlbot (visible servers): us 100, europe 1200+), it's not dead yet. The playerbase in NA is so small you literally know everyone after a month. If that's not dead what is?
4) fine i'll lie to you. the game is not dying. it's been increasing in population steadily. all the data from alexa, compete, google trends, and quakelive.com's leaderboards from last year are all false. nothing to see here. esr can shut down. that's what you want to hear? Waht's the point in lying about something that is so evidently true? So we should just hide the truth and pretend everything is great so newcomers to the game are shocked when they can't find premium servers and go on the ql forums to whine about it? Despite your good intentions, you will find lying to customers will only increase more rage and discontent for id.
5) as far as sync allowing incubus to cheat. I've supplied plenty of proof of that he's allowed incubus an unlimited #of accounts, that he's protected from lillie, that he's allowed to slum beyond belief (look at his stats) and now he's moved on to do the same on his pth account. I strongly feel he cheats. I've played well over 300+ games against him, know how he plays and know what his capabilities are. I've seen him play against some of the best the NA has to offer, so i know when something looks odd. It also doesn't help his cause that i saw him looking through walls the other day (i have that demo and i will make it available on youtube one day).
7) premium servers would be played more often if they had added paypal and reduced monthly subscriptions to 1 or 3 months. Even if players are ok with paying slightly more in order to get id to add paypal, id would have to make premium worth the money, as it stands now it's not.

1) Been on ql since july 2008
2) k, I don't play CTF so I can't comment on that, I would think that is the hardest one to skillmatch though
3) no you haven't, you mostly just say "ql is dying", being very adamant means always including "NA". Anyway, again - I don't see what good you think is going to happen because you go around moaning about it?
4) who said anything about lying
5) well from what I've seen you haven't given any proof, I have seen what you wrote in some other thread, but it didn't look like proof to me...
6(7)) agree :D

about the number of people playing ql - I remember syncerror telling me atleast twice that there are millions of people playing it :DDDDDDDDD

Do you have that conversation saved? I'd like to send that in somewhere. That is exactly what i'm talking about. We simply have to take sponge's words when he announced the # of people who played like christmas (about 72k) and compare them to thate statement you just made. Only one can be right. They're simply inflating the truth to make the game appear active when they should just be honest about it. If things are going bad, more people might step up, then again id would have to allow the community to help them.

I was able to find only this one (and now that I think about it he never told me personally, I just saw that statement atleast twice in these forums).

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&...pid1820504

I will be surprised to find out there are 100 K accounts even with all the fake ones, but millions is just delusional.

And to be honest I don't believe 72 K have been playing on christmas.

i'm just brutally honest. If brutal honesty is idiotic than so be it. I don't call people out without facts. And i don't have opinions without them (facts) either. So really what you find idiotic is the news since i'm simply reporting what's happening within ql. You can plug your ears all you want but it's the truth. I'm sorry the truth hurts so much. I really am. I wish i could give you nothing but positive things about this game (i once did that too) but then, like most, i opened my eyes and ears and what i saw hurt just as much. Now i'm just letting others know what i wish i knew back then.

I never talked for NA/Europe, i talk for myself sir. My experience is that QuakeLive brought life to a region that was almost extinct. I take a active game like QL without gtv/lan/etc over a dead Q3 with all the gtv maps and mods you could dream off.

i'm trying to make sense of you sudden fanboyism, it certainly doesn't make much sense based on you posting history
http://img541.imageshack.us/f/totalnoob.jpg/
http://img695.imageshack.us/i/totalnoob2.jpg/

but seriously, gtfo. You bring nothing to the table. At least have a position as to why you think ql isn't failing, I hope you can back it up with proof. Gl finding that lolololol

wtf dude, easy to track things with people that isnt anonymous, at least im not afraid of my past :D

Yes the server going down when it updates pisses me off, but that doesnt means that i want quake dead and id fucked, i report it like a conscious user, btw i dont need to bring anything to the table cause i already said many times why i believe QL is cool. kthxbye

Still waiting on your proof that ql isn't failing... ya that's what i thought

you liking ql does not a successful game make

But your hating does a failure make.

That is gSTRUCTORs point - being negative about everything and hating the game you want to play just helps put off newbs, and so helps it die faster... If you love quake, don't hate it.

Shit doesn't get done without some sort of criticism though.

Youre talking about doing shit to AnthonyJ? If each over reacting esr troll would do 1% of the actual shit he has done for the community, quake would shine like a supermoon raising slowly in the horizon, at sea.

He thinks QL is dying because people are being negative.
Doesn't understand PC gaming is dead because people are to ignorant to learn about PC gaming plus with the gaming companies not helping.

no. I think ql is/has fail/failed because of poor management by id/bethesda. I don't pay attention to anyone else complaining, i'm my own person and i'm not influenced by anyone but myself

your posting makes it pretty clear you're influenced by a fuckton of crack

He thinks console gaming hasn't effected the PC gaming industry.

I don't understand why this is difficult to understand.

id thought they could take an extremely small development team, port Q3 into a browser game with ads, and possibly make a lot of money. It didn't work. Plan B were subscriptions. Those didn't work either.

They never had any intention of taking a huge risk and putting a lot of development time into a 10 year old game with a completely unproven business model.

If you think they're going to take a lot of people off the Rage or Doom 4 teams, when those games stand to make them millions of dollars if successful, then you're delusional.

You have absolutely no proof that there's any benefit to them spending more development time on Quake Live, because there's never been a hugely successful browser based FPS. The games like this that are making money are generally based heavily on micro transactions in the first place. Implementing micro transactions into Quake is clearly not an easy task.

At this point, their iOS games are probably far more profitable.

So...you can either accept Quake Live for what it is, or whine incessantly.

I don't think it is fair to say that the model itself is flawed when there is so much dispute over its implementation.

I'd say there's enough evidence to call major doubt on browser based FPS games being a bad idea, and that QL's concept was/is a failure.

I'd say that there's an excellent chance that it was just handled rather badly.

we should ban your fucking ip. LOG THE FUCK IN OR GTFO

: ]

New crosshairs and mouse accel changes that allow you to set dpi next update rawr

sorrow being added as well

Maybe just wait till blizzard makes an fps

if blizz made a fast paced fps now that was based on something quake-ish, they would remove strafe jumping and add brink-style 'hold 1 button to do tricks'-movement, add aim-help (not a pure bot though, it has to stay competitive!) and an ingame coach telling you which item is going to be up next.

id on dedicated servers (in RAGE), and PC gaming...

“A lot of the big game companies, I mean look at epic with Gears, a cross platform title. Valve just released Portal 2 this week, you play it on steam first but my 360 copy’s showing up in a day or two. Historically, PC-centric developers are looking at the cross-platform environment as a way to… essentially it’s a business thing; you make only PC games and you’re not subscription based , it’s a hard sell. I mean, piracy is way up, interest is down in classic shooters; something on the PC… I mean, a lot of people play Call Of Duty on the 360. As the landscape has changed, we as developers need to react to that. When we set out to make RAGE we had shared technology that crossed lots of different platforms and it made more sense to us to go with the non-dedicated server direction, which again is something we basically invented in action gaming.”

On Quake development...

"... I can tell you that nobody in this building has been working on any new quake games. We’re focusing on RAGE and the other team is focusing on DOOM. We have the Quake live project, but again that IP is very important to us… that’s all I can say about that.”

fu id.... that’s all I can say about that

as if they owned you something

ye also u can lick their asss

hurrrr

OK LOOK let's settle this. I already posted in this thread but 1 more time.

The era of fast-paced complicated shooters is over. CPM would never fly in 2011, and QL is just getting along.

People want modern games. All the kids of the 90s are grown up and dont play video games as much, the new audience is a bunch of teenagers who grew up on Halo. Quake Live for your typical video gamer is Quake 3 repackaged.

id software needs to release a more noob-friendly game. Yes, Quake HAS to be dumbed down to be successful. That's the state of the industry in 2011.

Look where the thriving gaming communities are at. Call of Duty. Battlefield. Even TF2 is better off than Quake.

So...watch out for Brink, for Rage, for Battlefield 3, etc. These games are the future of PC gaming. Quake is obsolete.

I'd rather play a (VASTLY) superior game with the same few people than some dumbed down shitfest with a ton of players. Sure, I'm in the vast minority, but I don't give a shit.

Fuck the future, quake for life.

word.

The future of PC gaming is indie games. The future of FPS games is bleak

i like how everyone takes their own opinions so seriously in this post

who cares about future, if you care so hard then advertise ql as hard as you can

this is how out of touch id is and how little they care:
http://imageshack.us/f/695/totallyclueless.jpg/

gg