Because it takes way too long to learn how to play normal guitar?

it's not actually THAT hard to play guitar. the hard part is speaking through your instrument, which very few actually can do.

you mean to be good at playing it?

no, I mean than the technical aspect of playing guitar isn't that complicated. beeing a guitarist is easy, beeing a musician is hard.

I think you're wrong, nothing is easy. Regardless, creating has little to do with conducting it. On the other hand, and this is what I thought you were talking about at first, is that it takes certain skill to play music well and be expressionate in all the nuances, which listeners interpret as 'feeling'.

well it's not easy per se, but it's not harder than learning to play quake for example. you get the hang of if in a few months or so when you're first starting out. given you have a certain amount of talant/motivation.

and my point is what your saying, the hard part is doing it well. I don't like going into the 'feeling' debate, but when I say speak through an instrument I mean that the playing becomes more about the music than the playing, and that's where it gets tricky. and portraying what you want to say with music isn't so much a skill imo, this is were it becomes more about talent and passion which are alot harder both to have and to describe.

still my point stands, just playing guitar isn't much harder than most other things we choose to learn.

got it, I just think its 'skill' and all these 'feeling and emotion' characteristics kind of annoy me, not unlike the adepts of 'soulful photography', fans of scratchy and grainy film crap

agreed. altho saying it's just mathematics is seeing it all in a rather black and white way. there's need for both skill and emotion (however pretentious it sounds) to make truely good music.

but it's basicly a way for hipsters to make something good into pretentious crap just so that they can circle jerk with their hipster friends about how deep they are, because they 'feel' and are so totaly 'real'.

Emotion is all in the composition surely?

I'd say both in composition and in the performance.

a great performance can make even a average composition good, and vice versa.

Surely if you're playing the composition perfectly as it's meant to be the emotion is all in the composition on the purely music side of things?

This show is amazing.

it's never that easy. emotion in a composition needs for the playing to be emotional.. if it's even possible to play with emotion.

and if there's supposed to be emotion in the composition, in order for anyone to play it exactly like it's meant to it would have to be played with emotion.

The sounds create the emotion surely?

I dunno I just don't understand the concept some people have of an emotional performance coming across in the sound (Which isn't compositional based).

it's both, and is a matter of 'resolution' of the composition'
For example:
A chord is 'happy' and Am is 'sad', that you can put in the composition, but you when you bend a note in a solo, a very small change can change the effect, from 'aggressive' to 'crying'. Also, there is a whole nurture vs nature argument when it comes to perception of melodies, rhythm, and other patters, scales. It's all obviously pretty subjective and anyone claiming otherwise, I think, is very lost.

what we call emotion in this way is indeed how we percieve phrasing, melodies, texture and every musical aspect really.

so to feel is to percieve in this case. and alot of people use the word emotion when describing this.

really interesting poiint

innit. I'm pretty proud of my argumentation skills.

I think you need to write an equation that will express this stuff, you know, more precisely so there's no confusion about it.

as I said, it works both ways. you can create sound with emotion, but it's alot harder than creating an emotion from sound. which has been my point the whole time.

you can easily tell if someone puts their heart into their playing, if you know what to listen to. if you listen to any song in the eurovision (crappy contest, I'm well aware of that) you can listen to it and think about how they sing in good pitch all the time, how the production is nicely done and what a spectacle the performance is. but it's hard to find any performer in that kind of music which actually portray a feeling or emotion. sure they may think they have a good tune, but it's nothing more than that.

and then you have music like the blues, which are almost nothing but emotion. many blues musicians don't sing half as well as the pop-tarts on mtv, and the production is more often than not pretty crap. but for someone who loves the blues they feel the music in a way which I dare to say isn't even possible in most popular music. to be able to replicate the emotions of blues music, you need to feel it. otherwise the wine will turn into water, and what makes that kind of music great gets lost.

Well vocals are of course totally different since we can detect how people are feeling through their voice.

I think I might be talking about something slightly different to you guys but obviously I can't describe it so I'll just leave it at that.

vocals are an instrument just like any other.

I thought we were talking specifically about the guitar originally.

I agree that vocals are an instrument but I don't think they can really be considered similar to any other instrument. The most similar would be Brass/Woodwind I guess, but even that would be pushing it in my opinion.

I just re-read all the post and I think I agree with what you and Yeltsin were saying, but I seem to have a different idea of what emotion is in music.

maybe we were, but what's beeing played on a guitar can be transfered to any other intrument. maybe not an instrument which is as suitable. but it's possible.

it's not easy to argue about things like these, if you can call our discussion an argument. the beauty of music is the way it's something which can't be easily explained. and the things I hear when I listen to music isn't the same thing you're hearing, even though it is. I find it really interesting tho!

Similar to the dolphin who is not a part of the family of fish, a singer is not a part of the family of musicians.

No. Why would it be? That's just idiotic. How exactly do you notate emotion in a piece of music, pray tell? What symbol is that?

Music tells you what to play to produce an idea. It tells you how to play it to produce some idea, to some degree. It doesn't tell you how to understand the idea and develop it; it only gives you a guideline. I can play a piece of music perfectly "technically" and have it sound absolutely bland and boring; but someone who is an actual musician can take that piece of music and inflect life into it, and make it their own.

I think we're talking about totally different things.

The notation comes in the form of the notes and the timings.

this. You can find a numerous technically 100% correct covers of Jimmy Hendrix songs on youtube, but there's only one person who made an actually good cover of his song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdYRzH10L2M

comparing to this Vai's version (you can look up for this on related vids) is just plain, and has no personal touch, just like all other Vai's (or Satriani's) songs.
Beeing artist is not about beeing perfect, its about transgressing emotion's to your listeners, there are not many of them walking on the world tho.

Nope. There are some ten year old asians on youtube playing piano pieces that are way more advanced than diploma level. They are hitting every note and keeping a steady tempo. However, these children are not great pianists. They will be labeled as "prodigies" perhaps, but they won't be able to pull off a performance with as much emotion as an adult.

If you were to just hear them what's the difference?

I was talking about listening to them. I really don't follow your view point at all. You can 100% accurately play a piece of music but it might be nowhere near as emotional as somebody else playing it. It is up to the performer to imbue the composition with emotion, the composition cannot achieve that alone. If it could we would all be listening to music synthesized and played "accurately" by computers.

Let me try and explain it from my perspective then.

A piece of music gains its emotion from the rhythm, harmony, melody, structure, form et cetera.

As far as I'm aware musical notation takes into account pretty much every element of a piece of music. If there is a lot of room for interpretation then my view on things is entirely hypothetical so imagine there was no room at all (and that's probaly why none of you understood me).

If you were to play a piece perfect based on the notation then it would be exactly the same. So if you change a bit, even if its better or has more emotion it would no longer be "perfect".

It would take more time and effort for very little benefit while removing additional income streams (Live performances) to produce and listen to all music digitally. It's just impractical in just about everyway.

you don't seem to get it. rythm, tempo, accentuation (or what you call it) are not written in stone. they are merely pointers, not laws. that's the whole point of music interpretation, the emotion embeded in the piece can only be carried trough the person performing it.

hence, there is no such thing as a "perfect" piece. it is exactly these imperfections that the emotion is carried trough. since it reflects the state and intent of the performer at that perticular moment.

same pieces sound completely different when performed by different artists. even when performed by the same artist but at a different time in their life - take Herbert von Karajan's interpretation of Mozart's Requiem for example, the one from 75 and the one from 86, it's like listening to two completely different piecies of music.

In that case, I do get it and you need to learn to read. I assumed that musical notation would be designed so that you could replicate something perfectly and stated that, obviously I was wrong.

But I think my point still stands, it is possible to perfectly replicate a piece of music in theory and therefore the emotion is all in the composition or the changes made by the performer.

yea, it's called a recording.

Oh no, you there is huuuuuge room for interpretation.

No. Sound is a wave, which, when duplicated perfectly will contain everything you perceive as emotion. In this sense, having perfect technical skill can teach you to duplicate "emotion" as well. You are talking about following along with musical notation, I am talking about music itself.

You are talking about following along with musical notation

Yes... Yes I am. I'm not following your intention here.

"Emotion" is just an element of technical perfection, as seen in sound waves. So, my issue was with your statement:

You can 100% accurately play a piece of music but it might be nowhere near as emotional as somebody else playing it.

And I meant to point out that a "piece of music" can be used to refer to notation (as you seem to hold) but also to the actual sound of music.

case in point Herman Li

anyone playing shred guitar basicly.

noooo
satriani...
buckethead.....!

Petrucci, Vai, Satriani, Malmsteen

That's not my point, for them to learn what was playing on stage would have taken a very long time. (I think)

nope. couple of months maybe.

so a bit much for a tv show :) but not VERY long.

i would rather watch someone learn guitar for 6 months, than watching some retards pretending to play one.

and listening to someone learning guitar can be really annoying.

most popular music is retard pretending to play/sing/whatever

but yea, posing should be outawed!

i dun care about most popular music, so that doesn't really bother me. :)

but you care about who's the worlds bestest most ultimate gamer? :o

no?

cmon.. sure you do!

i bet you do!

you leave me out of this!

btw: i'm teaching myself to play guitar atm. i wouldn't call it easy.

good for you!
been at it for long?

it's hard at the begining, but after a while you'll get the basics down and from there on it's a steady climb to learn as much as you want.

approx. 7 or 8 months i guess.
lately i started to play along with a drummer i know and it's a blast. :)
would've never thought that i'd be able to play guitar around this time last year.

this guy became a good friend of mine. i actually think about donating in the intertubes for the first time.

those guys started popping up on the internet a couple of years back, the internet teachers. nothing wrong with them, but just remember you can only go so far by beeing taught by someone else.

yeah, i also have a couple of friends who're actually really good at playing and a drummer, so that helps alot.

you play in a band?

that's the best way to learn imo, to play with other people. because it's so radically different from sitting at home and playing by yourself. beeing a few people who are just playing a jam is the most awesome thing, and something I wish I got to do more.

I used to play in several bands, but they are all disbanded now. I have a good friend of mine with whom I'm writing and recording music whenever we have the chance. but it's hard since we live a long way from each other. we'll be moving to the same city in the summer so then there will be alot more music in my life again. can't wait!

the music being skandinavian death metal of course.

what else? =)))

nah i dont know but it would be nice if he plays death metal! :D

haha.
no sorry :(

I think we were the only band in our rehearsal house that didn't play metal tho.

In case any of you didn't understand, they aren't playing with fake guitar hero guitars, they're PRETENDING to play REAL guitars... WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS.

they are playing to a backing track.

edit: and because it would be close to impossible for them to get through the song without the backing track.

I know, so why do it in the first place?

It doesn't even have anything to do with gaming.

because it's COOL and makes gaming REALLY REAL!!!!123

tbh this isn't much worse than all the other shows of this kind. that said, they should all burn.

esp. top model.. god I hate that show..

wat?

can't bear to watch this for more than 30 sec, much less 43 min :X...
12 of the nation's top gamers....half of them female? interesting :o

are they also hot? I can't bear to watch even for 1 second :)

very

very: http://images.indiainfo.com/web2images/news.i...re_400.jpg

5 LOCAL TOURNAMENT TITLES!

Booya.

rainbow six vegas state champion DAYUM

oh my god. they area like ...

i mean ... what the fuck.

they call it a challenge to stand on stage, holding a guitar.
then they talk badly about the ones who actually have to memorize something, for not doing it "correct"?

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

IS THAT ON TV SOMEWHERE?

DID THEY JUST SAY "A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS"?

this must be like heaven for Dird.

Not only that but they referred to it as a "dream come true".

I find it hilarious when they're like "omg the conners" or whatever the band's name was and it's so obvious that nobody has ever fucking heard of them.

Rock dolls dude, rock dolls.

i accidently the whole thing :(

i can't wait for this type of television format to die the fuck out

puppies

do you watch german tv all ze time?

jenau oida

the only show you can watch, without getting a nervous breackdown is "Auf und davon" and "Goodbye Deutschland".

Everything else is Tine Wittler.

puppies

ahh, DMAX. yeah, that's pretty good if you're into that kinda stuff.

Die Ludolfs kommen ins Kino!

When will they learn? You never go full retard.

hahaha thats a great use for that quote!

Reality TV actually sunk even lower, didn't see that one coming.

this whole whining about esports thing is getting a bit boring

this is esports?

Electronic sports, abbreviated e-sports or eSports, is used as a general term to describe the play of video games competitively.

I thought we were bashing the crappy tv show and not really gaming/esporting? :(

either way, it's pointless

pointless, but GOOD!

I am starting to think the sort of people like the makers of this abomination are part of the responsibles for the global crisis..

Like spending a huge amount of money on shit like this that will fail miserably.

Not if the shit sells out :)

I really don't think it will

such a pathetic show :<

Oh so this is not a 'Top Horror shows' thread. :(

*worst

Good you found the reply button. Now locate edit.

too much effort

The winner should only get the $100k if s/he gets "I am the ULTIMATE GAMAH" tattoo'd on their forehead.

A "Gamer" tramp stamp would be great.

or else

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=85611


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL INCONTROL

Thanks for this Liam.

why the fuck did i waste 40minutes of my precious night time with this junk show :( and particularly this vampire emo guy was driving me nuts..i wanted to punch him in the face over the intarwebz :/

Still haven't had that question answered btw.

they r cunt

Thank u +rep

I missed this the first time around but I believe I have the answer. Note that I only skimmed through the program rather than watch it, but most likely it's meant to be a psycological blow to them, like "Playing games is still pointless because you can't play real instruments! Bwahahaha!"

Or some coked up producer thought it was a good idea. Who cares it's america.

....had to stop about 30 seconds in.....just like when i have sex

haaaa haaaa haaaa

Made me lose faith in humanity once more.

Also I find this less awkward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrvbj2aRT1I

that's scary

Link still works :/ brought it all back to me :/

that's pretty jokes now that I re-watch it haha

I love it how the fruity chick in the boarding school uniform tried to shit on that she is champion in soul calibur :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ch9RzFZYSU

because guitars abandoned them
they are stepchildren of music anyway so who cares

just watched season 1 and 2

Yeah because of this thread I've been watching season one, I can't believe this shit was aired on television.