I like T6. Are there any public statistics that show the ranking of the maps in the EU servers in terms of playtime? My feeling is that it's second or third to DM6. Probably second. I'm certain it's at least 10:1 when paired with QZT7. So it's amusing to see a T6 poll and not a T7 poll.

The results at the moment show 46% for removing it(60/128). I doubt DM6, DM13 or T4 would do better. T7 would most definitely do (alot) worse. It would be strange to remove the map on that premise. Particularly when it's probably derived and publicized by elitist DM6 players. ^

Whenever i filter for duel and all locations i see either no t6 game at all or only one or two at best, compared to the loads of dm6/ztn servers. And i even see t7 quite often in there.

Then you haven't played much or for long. ZTN only just got added this week, obviously ZTN will be the most popular duel map for at least months.

Since the beginning of the beta T6 has been extremely popular in the duel servers. T7 on the other hand has been very unpopular(I'm talking EU servers of course). Hopefully SyncError will simply show us the stats.

i have played for quite some time and i can't say i have ever seen many t6 duels, and when i specced one they mostly just played it cause it was in the duel mappool, not because they liked it :E (which would explain why all of a sudden nobody plays it anymore)

Unlike CTF there is no map change in duels when a game finishes. So every map change is a vote. The reason you don't see it lately in the filters is because ZTN was just added. This was predictable.

From my experience theres a few players that play t6 alot and alot of players that avoids it at all costs.

About dm6, I never play it if I can avoid it, but these random maps seems appealing to many players.

Edit: So t7 would do MUCH worse than t6? http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1703607 - weird stuff, but I guess the elite is a majority in this case? Theres something wrong with that statement but I just cant put my finger on it.

Let me just say it again, t6 is a terrible 1on1 map.

Yes, clearly the 'elite' is a majority there. If you go by something other than a poorly constructed esr poll and rather go by what people are actually playing and what they're not playing, the results will never favour T7 over T6. And it wont be close. You saying "t6 is a terrible map" over and over again won't change that. I guess we just need SyncError to release the numbers. I understand QL is all about stats?

I only called the majority the elite because you said it was an elitist opinion, but apparently it was the opinion of the majority.

Id say t7 has some annoying flaws too that id probably wont ever adress, but its nothing compared to t6. The biggest problem is that its so easy to maintain control once youve got it, first spawn/frag decides the outcome of the game way more often than not. I havent played it in months so I cant really go in to specifics, but I have rarely played a more boring map. Having a lockdown on it and raping your opponent 30-0 gives no satisfaction at all, might aswell play instagib.

Edit: Getting raped 30-0 is of course less satisfactory though.

I've been noticing a trend from a narrow group of players using every opportunity available to bash T6 in favour of T7 and attempts to boot it out of some conjured "official QL 5 maps only cycle" (hence the stupid polls).

I called it 'elitist' because that does not correlate with what people have been choosing in the EU servers the past ten months. Which is the real majority.

Well Im probably never gonna play it again except when forced to in some internet tournament or other, but could you or anyone tell me what redeeming qualities it has? I mean I know its not absolutely necessary to play sniper only if you never ever show yourself. The map just doesnt allow any actual fights to take place, its all snipe snipe snipe or hide hide hide.

I see what you're saying about the maplock. But there have been other popular maps with long corridors/huge spaces aligned perfectly for sniper abuse (DM6/Q2DM1/ZTN3T1).

T6 has 3 YA's, MH and probably some 60 armor from shards. It's hard to keep control of this for 10 minutes. It also has many routes for fast and versatile manoeuvering. I can usually manage a comeback when pitted against an opponent of similar strength. Contrary to DM6 which I find less balanced by a mile. Not that you can justify one supposed flaw with another, but it's something to relate to since DM6 is still hugely popular.

T6 also has one vital advantage over DM6 in that it's not !#@"% DM6.
It's definitely not flawless and maybe it's totally unplayable for tier 6 and 7 players. But when tier 3-5 (and especially when they ping >50) play, I don't see many blowouts from equally ranked players.

It annoys the hell out of me when I see players raging on new or unconventional maps (read no dm6) about how they are unbalanced, all aim or just generally shit only to see them glorify and play dm6 over and over.

This is despite the majority of people having been in agreement for a long time that the map is unbalanced, all aim and a map which favours the player with the first spawn massively.

Ill be happy the day dm6 is taken out of rotation, but like hnns said, dm6 being what it is doesnt merit plying t6.

I agree that t6 isn't the best of maps. I'm not decided on if it's the actual map or simply the items/spawn/etc layout though as I really like the layout of the map.

First step towards being playable would be removing RG, maybe putting LG down there since its actually useful in some situations and have some LG ammo spread out on the map.

Yes. Too many DM6 playing hypocrites citing T6 flaws when they're all far worse in DM6.

what about the poll is poolry contructed? im totally willing to edit it

can we do pretty pictures with the votes?

i vote for a 7-map mappool

"We obviously need to vote for the proper settings, having fucked up settings just because people are afraid the old Q3 players will have an advantage in a game thats essentially Q3 is plain stupid."

No, fucking no. Quake 2 isn't essentially Quake World, Quake 3 isn't essentially Quake 2 and Quake 4 isn't essentially Quake 3. Each of these games have had some similarities but also some major differences all of which made each game a success or failure. Why does every person insinst on make QL into Q3, we already have Q3.

Before Q3's mainstream died, people were complaining about weapon balance, no new maps etc. Now QL takes the bold step and actually CHANGES weapon damage:
- Railgun damage lowered, people don't play on 150 ping anymore as was back in the day Q3 was developed and now with 30 ping it's perhaps the easiest weapon to do damage with.
- LG damage lowered, as soon as your enemy was in LG range it outperformed any other weapon make it completely overpowered.
- New maps (T7, T9, Ironworks, Syberia) and old unfamiliar maps (T6, DM20) have been (re-)introduced.
- Different TDM and duel settings, spawn system reworked. Granted these settings may not be optimal yet, but blindly running back to Q3 settings is no way to go forward. If society hadn't tried and tested new ideas and technologies we'd still be living in a fucking cave.
People were screaming for change and now that it's here people are suddenly reluctant to even consider it.

To be more specific to your post: the Clanbase cup is in it's 1st week of play. We have no real indication of the QL TDM settings (the 12 sec weap spawn ones) being completely bad or just in need of some tweaking. This is the first competitive thing for QL TDM and already people (old Q3 people who have been stuck in their routine for 10 years) are crying for change because they are too stubbern to try and test a different setting. Don't forget QL is still a beta, everyone playing it at the moment is still BETA-testing QL. How the fuck can you beta test something properly if you throw in the towel before you even start. I'm not saying the 12 sec weaponspawn + weapondrop is the best setting, I'm just not agreeing that 30 sec and no weapondrop is. I think a cup like this will go very far as to help testing for the most optimal QL setting.

Currently I have no issue with anything in QL (aside from the crappy netcode and lack of competitive features) and it'd even go as far as saying the runes in CTF could have potential if they are tweaked to some extend.

Lol, maybe I was being unclear or maybe you misinterpreted on purpose, either way - Im very happy with most of the new balancing, and new maps would also put a smile on my face. Theres still many changes I would like to see, but at least its going in the right direction overall.

When it comes to the TDM settings though, they really have no intention of catering to competetive play. Ive tested these settings for four cups and plenty of pcws, and Ill say they suck. Its cess cess cess from beginning to end, no more no less.

The first part was more of a reply in general about the complaining towards QL.

Also, I have no idea which are the four QL TDM cups you've mentioned but surely they can't have been as big and organized as the CB cup is. Again, I want to stress that I'm not for the 12 second weaponspawn, but neither am I for the 30 second. The 30 second one has admittedly been tried and tested for 10 years. But this is a different game. I don't think you can simply change back to the Q3 settings without taking different weapon damage, different weapon locations, different armor mechanics and god forbid different maps into the equation.

Back then it was either Quake, UT or CS which you had to choose from and you'd love one of them to death regardless of the settings. Now it's 10 years later and we should take our experiences from the past and use them to improve this new game, not by just blindly using old methods but by testing out different ones.

Have the armours changed at all in QL?

It was the GGL TDM cup, the spontan TDM cup, the euro open cup and the nations cup. Sure none of them was as big as CB´s cup but at least half of the div1 players played in these cups.

I remember this argument when it was used for Q4. Good times had by 17.

I still think the massive failing of Q4 was the fault of the somewhat high PC specs and dividing of the community with Q4 max and another mod (can't remember the name anymore) and thus never creating a "real" community. It just sucked that for server #1 you had to install this and have this cfg and server #2 you had to get something completely different because the ego's of mod makers were too big to actually cooperate and join the community together.

Seeing as the development QL is done from one place with plenty of ways to submit opinions, testing and input I don't really thing it's a fair comparison.

No mod could have saved Q4 without making it into Q3.

Removing crouch sliding, remake DM6 and ZTN for Q4 (sound familiar?), removing the few great maps Q4 had, remove the "shootable" portals.

Yea Quake 4 only had bad things going for it! By no means was it the great game, but it showed some interesting features that could've been used in other games such as QL but sadly the stubborn Q3 "elite" reign supreme over these decicions.

You don't get points just for making something new - it has to actually not suck. Shooting through portals was as gimmicky as the wiimote. Q4 maps were absolute crap - another thing that the community had to fix.

You can spot a Q4 player and his argument a mile off.

It's funny how they never mention my favourite feature of Q4 though, the jumppad grenades. Now that added some nice tactical oppurtunities.

Both the jump pad grenades and the GL itself were the only things I couldn't complain about.

dude are you blind? so QL isn't essentially Q3? WTF?
so tomorrow we start calling cheese salami but salami would still essentially be cheese right?
QL isn't even essentially the same, it is exactly the same, its the same game on the same engine, just a little tweaking and a new name don't make it a new game, its just another version.
for all the whiners who don't want any Q3 settings, you need to understand that we don't want Q3 seconds because we got used to them over the last 10 years but because of the balance of the game and the strategic aspect but it would be hard for you to understand that since you want to play with 12sec weprespawn.
now please stop talking bullshit and start calling a chicken a chicken

So, now that tdm doesn't exist anymore, i hope they will at least fix the duel mappool and get rid of tourney6.

lol @ cb
id finally managed to put "real" tdm in their game and now you guys don't even use it.
This game is still in beta, which means that the game won't stay the same during the tournament most likely.
This is why your "reasoning" is complete bullshit and damages the TDM scene (note the T in there).