Interesting aerowalk game. Imagine if QL games ran 15 minutes. Does anyone know exactly why they switched to 10? Does it have something to do with arQon? Is 10 the CPM timelimit?

Has anyone tried playing QL games at 15 minutes? Do servers allow you to set the timelimit? It just seems so strange and arbitrary. I don't remember there being some kind of community outcry about 15 minutes being too long.

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tl10 matches allow for more upsets aswell

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Yes that would be the best reason not to play tl10 :/

The one that plays best should win, not the one that gets the best start.

well imho it has good and bad sides

i think it made tournaments more interesting aswell and u can use the saved time to play a bo5 instead of bo3.
as a spectator i really prefer it as i player i would rather use tl15 but its no big deal

imo 10 min games allow for a "perfect" game by a player...15 make that almost impossible, one of my pros against tl15

Most likely CTFlers deciding how duels are to be played. If specs where a reason, why was CTF not shortened to 13 min?

15 min. suits q3 and friends. Faster games like QW and CPM may need less.

And 15 has worked well in the past.

Best thing like all fell for that argument "but we get bo5". Doesn't happen too often anymore.

That's what you get when you let greedy companies decide about gameplay (ammo system anyone?).

I strongly prefer 15mins, 10mins aint enough for comebacks.

And on the contrary to that, my opinion is that if 10 minutes is not enough for a deep game that allows for comeback, the game itself is flawed, and needs changes(higher tempo, like instant spawn after frag) and perhaps faster movement as well. 10 minutes should really be enough to see the winner in a fast fps imo :o)

i agree, 10 mins is more than enough. its just the movement is so basic and defensive play is so effective, coupled with the ammosystem and weapon locations on several maps. q3/ql has the most basic movement of any quake, which saddens me to no end :(

q2's idea was good, advanced fast movement with slow weapon switch so weapon choice is still a required skill and positioning gives you an advantage, but defensive play isnt so superior. cpm movement, ql weapon switch system would be awesome

or people could try Q4 in it's current state instead of complaining about it "out of the box".

(yes I realize that will never happen)

but you know what else would never happen? A +back player in Q4 winning against the best in the world.

q4 1.3 plz.

QuakeCon 2008's games were all tl 15.

ye, and the game was like 2 weeks old :/

There should be more discussion about this timelimit issue. Imagine if soccer or football or any major sport reduced their timelimit by 1/3rd. It's a huge change that completely alters the course of a game, and the way the game is played.

I thought QL was boring defensive rocket +back shit, I don't really think an extra 5 mins is suddenly going to make players play more aggressive.

That aero was fucking awesome sauce. It reminded me of old cpm3a duels.

why not 12 minutes?

Why not 13:37 minutes? Seriously, either 10 or 15 minutes. But everything else is merely an artificial over time, which is really not so thoughtfully. In Duel play 10 or 15 minutes after all of the standard.

expected some reply like that.

if you say you wanna change it to 15 minutes, the extra 5 minutes is also an artificial extra time, because the timelimit right now is 10 minutes, and it is the current standard. The only reason you won't see it that way is because duels used to be 15 minutes before.

There is nothing particularly wrong with 12 minutes. It is just as arbitrary as 10 or 15 minutes.

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Yep, suggested 12 a long time ago. Makes much more sense than to cut the time a whole third.

was a recent q4 tourney that cooller played in that used tl 12, it could work in ql.

Good idea. For those who are not satisfied with 12, I could suggest 13 minutes :D If one OT is there we get 15 minutes = q3 style = win/win!

i dont know mongo but he seems to be a really good player, gg

he showed some talent here

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1490988

who's that mongo / harley quinn guy?

Hm. I will preface this post by saying that while I have been playing quake games pretty much constantly since 1996, I'm no expert on ql duels. It could also be relevant to state that I watched these games because I was happy (for no good reason) to see czm lose.

Now, I think it's a striking coincidence that we have two on-line upsets, vs czm and z4, a week after the release of the first major public ql hack (which includes wallhack and humanized aimbot).

What led me to think of this was that while I was watching the vods for the czm games (have not seen the z4 ones), I was struck by the impression that "I don't understand q3/ql duels anymore, because some of the things I see only make sense to me in the context of someone using wallhack and some others if he's trying too hard to not look like he's using wallhack". After realising the aforementioned coincidence, I also thought that he felt very sure of his ability to hit lg and rail in some situations, but could be confirmation bias on my part.

I don't dislike harley_QUINN or have any opinion of him at all really, nor do want to say that he or sparks are hacking. I don't have any evidence to support such accusasitons. But in quake duels I was more familiar with, I used to have a very good eye for these kinds of things. This is why I write this post; to say that if someone cares, maybe they should look into it.

I apologize to harley_QUINN and sparks for any discomfort this inquiry causes them, and ask them to understand my position, which is one where I am without malice towards them but with a feeling that there's a concern that should be voiced.

a week after the release of the first major public ql hack

hmm, i remember being able to google a humanized aimbot for ql about a year ago already (dont know if it worked, didnt try)

It's always possible to hack, but there has to my knowledge not been any 'OGC' for ql until a week or two ago. What I mean by that is one hack that is comprehensive and easy to get and easy to use.

I have seen more people hacking (in the blatant 80% lg, 90% rail way) the last two weeks than i have all year.

Detlew even went from teamkilling to hacks before the new report-teamkiller feature.

lol post. if ur going to accuse someone of hacking, go ahead and accuse them. dont make posts like that insinuating things while pretending to be all polite and harmless. bringing up hacks in relation to pub ca games is one thing, doing it this way in a tournament setting is quite another.

also get an account.

"lol post."

I already regret making it. And sorry for not being very concise.

"also get an account."

I used to have an account but I lost it, my nick was "NI", same as on xsr and that board before it, I was the first guy Sujoy made a moderator here about a decade ago. I didn't mean to hide, I just lost the account and didn't make a new one for these posts.

"while pretending to be all polite and harmless."

I was not pretending to be polite, but you only have my word for it. (It should not look any different had I pretended, unless I failed to actually be polite, in which case I apologize.)

I did not try to be harmless but I intended to be net-positive. Let me make an analogy: If you see someone being bullied, I'm sure you agree that it's best to interfere even though this harms the bully's interests. A better analogy to my situation would be that I walked past a schoolyard and saw one kid knocking another over, so I stopped and said "Oi, what's going on here?". An apropriate answer could have been "What do you mean?" or "We're playing rugby, it's part of the game.". In this vein the last part of erok's answer "[i doubt he hacks since he's famous and he has] that playstyle of relying on hitting [his] shots" is where I'd nod and keep on walking.

"if ur going to accuse someone of hacking, go ahead and accuse them."

I'm not going to accuse anyone of hacking, since as I wrote I don't have the evidence or the expertice to investigate such evidence. All I had was the inspiration to think that it could in this instance be quite possible, and also in my opinion experience enough for that belief to possibly be worth investigating.

On both accounts I could be fooling myself.

"dont make posts like that insinuating things"

Let me try to put it plainly then:

I know quite a lot about quake duels, but not so much about ql, and to me some of the things I saw looked like someone using wallhack and trying to hide it. For example harley seemed to know to the pixel where czm was at times when they had not seen or heard each other for several seconds and czm was not at what I could imagine to be normal places to spam shots. While I can accept that a skilled player seems to have extrasensory perception to a beginner, and maybe I have fallen that far, the thing that got me wondering was that at other times, especially later in the game when harley had a solid lead, when even I clearly knew and often heard where czm was, harley spammed in another direction.

Maybe my fault is that I can't express what I mean casually enough.

"Didn't look strange to me." would have been a very sufficient reply to my original post.

Instead Nukm and I digressed here into a discussion about if there had been a major hack release recently or not.

"Bringing up hacks in relation to pub ca games is one thing, doing it this way in a tournament setting is quite another."

I'm not sure I know what you mean here. Hacking in pub ca, a gamemode to practice aim, seems pointless, so why care about it. Spec, kick, done. Right?

If you mean that tournament settings are a powder keg and we should not even look like we're thinking hack unless we have undeniable proof, then my instinct is to disagree, but it's admittedly from a place of ignorance so instead I'll once again apologize. Sorry. /NI

no. what i meant was that if u actually care about it so much and ur going to accuse someone like mongo of hacking, which is what youre clearly doing, then you should do the work, get the evidence and prove it. ur post was a very casual way of putting it out there without making it seem like you were accusing him of hacking. even ur second post, ur just making references to him doing things. if u really feel like hes hacking then watch the demo, identify the times and post it and clearly state that u think hes hacking.

taking this whole o i think hes hacking but im not sure, is a shitty attitude to take.

he didnt accuse him, he just said its possible. dumbass yank.

what do u think my point was? his entire initial post was a twisted way of implying that the upsets on czm and z4 were essentially due to their opponents hacking without actually coming out and saying it in so many words. what else do u take away from - "Now, I think it's a striking coincidence that we have two on-line upsets, vs czm and z4, a week after the release of the first major public ql hack (which includes wallhack and humanized aimbot)."

its an online tournament. its "possible" that everyone involved is hacking. just as its "possible" that you're a child molester.

i dont think casual semi-accusations of "o that looked weird, hes probably hacking" should be tolerated. not sure about the euro scene but ive heard too much of it in the american scene. people are constantly talking about others hacking without actually trying to back it up with solid evidence. and i just think its stupid.

if you think someones hacking then have the balls to come out and say it and prove it. if not dont even bother raising the point.

heres what i think mr. anonymouse shouldve done. if he saw the vod and thought ok this looks weird, he shouldve considered whether he actually wants to try and find any evidence of hacking. if he didnt feel qualified to do it, then he shouldve found someone who cares and is willing to put the effort. barring either of those things, he should have kept his mouth shut instead of bringing the issue up on a public forum.

anyway enough said on the subject. goodbye thread.

he did a bad job in expressing the idea, but the fact is, you'll never know.

i also find some stuff suspicious, but cba really making some fuss out of it. it's not the aim, it's the ability to never get surprised and know where your opponent is 99,9% of the time. you don't see that stuff even on the top 5 players. not looking through walls but... always aiming in the right direction.

i guess it must be just ... talent :)

"if he didnt feel qualified to do it, then he shouldve found someone who cares and is willing to put the effort."

That's what I was doing here. goodbye thread.

What you don't realise is that the rest of the world (mostly) adopts an "Innocent until proven (100%) guilty" policy. Something many of your death penalty states seems to neglect, which means most of us won't immediately come to the conclusion that he's hacking just because some Anon on a forum said so, even though he actually didn't accuse him (for those of you reading comprehension challenged, ie. w0nko).
Actually they'll doubt both "cases" and think for themselves rather than believe whatever is in writing. It's kind of offensive of you to assume your reader is of such a low intellectual level. Maybe that's just a reflection of yourself.
I think its quite tragic if you can't talk about hacking without squirming, its like children talking about porn. Without awareness and the freedom to ask questions, how do you expect to have an educated community? Another typical American approach; act now, think later. wp on living up to stereotypes btw, its pretty much all you're good at. Anyway enough said on the subject.

didnt intend to come back to this but since you insist on making gross generalizations about americans, just couldnt resist pointing out that i am in fact not an american at all. wp sir.

at the end of the day i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. i dont have a problem with him talking about hacking at all. if hed just come out and said "hey i think mongo's play is extremely suspicious and i think he hacks" instead of saying it the way he did, i wouldve just said i think ur wrong and moved on. o well.

Eloquent, yet wrong.

Ya caught me.

Sorry, it's possible that I'm clueless.

To whatever degree I'm not, you can take it as a compliment.

harleyQUINN aka {DFM}mongo.......nuff said

This idiot was in DaFoneMen, I'm pretty sure he hacks.

really doubt either one of them are hacking, they've both been talented aimers for years, who both have had that playstyle of relying on hitting their shots

Personally, I thought czm's near comeback on aero was better.

i cheat

after watching the demo I must say that his aim was amazing. rockets, rail and shaft were really superb. but he also hit some sick prediction rockets (i think czm spawned at ra and he shot a rocket on the floor which czm totally ate (however, he anticipating this move and shooting the rocket 1.5 seconds earlier). That was quite nice and showed that he had a lot of experience on the map.and czm nearly come back was really nice, indeed.

w0nko is sooo right.
its like calling a football player a doping abuser.
didnt see any cheats (watched vod1 and 3)

Harley doesn't hack, how blind are you "NI"?

at 15 - 0 he goes like "aw snap, im beating the snot out of CZM, pps are gonna think something's up....i better start missing some shit while trying to act like im trying to revive my jedi aiming skills"