this is KILLER...397!

joking aside, looks like a good write up for noobs.

I know a guy called KILLER145

KILLER145 > KILLER397

;-)

It’s advisable to start practicing a single game mode, prefferably FFA or TDM.

/facepalm

A nice trick to try is turning up your field of view setting (Game Settings - Advanced). This results in a slightly warped game view that might be a little disorienting at first, but often results in much better play.

FOV is preference, but I'd say a good deal of top players still use 90.

Selecting a slim character makes you more difficult to hit. It’s not that your actual hitbox changes, but human opponents will unconsciously target only the visible part of your player model.

/facepalm

Battles in Quake Live are about more than movement and accuracy - they also require intelligence.

Clearly.

don’t use railguns in tight areas, and so on.

Tell that to Daler and czm.

Turn off mouse acceleration in your mouse drivers and in Windows. This ‘feature’ helps you suck more - your mouse movement won’t be accurately tracked - so you don’t want it.

Oh shit - does cooller know?

I could go on, but this smells of troll. Not only does your "guide" provide several dozen incorrect "tips," it doesn't even do it as well as guides that already suck.

The median FOV from the quake community and it'll be a lot closer to 100 than 90. His point stands.

That was your first fail.

Secondly, using people like CZM/DALER/COOLLER is just really dumb to disprove a point.

There is an exception to every rule, but using an exception to disprove what is obviously meant to be a general strat which is right for most people is pretty desperate.

The median FOV from the quake community and it'll be a lot closer to 100 than 90. His point stands.

Which is why I pointed out "but I'd say a good deal of top players still use 90." Who gives a shit what the failures use? If you're writing a guide about improving, you don't offer the idea of a bigger FOV to be better as some kind of fact.

Secondly, using people like CZM/DALER/COOLLER is just really dumb to disprove a point.

There are tons of ways to play the game, which you would know if you did. The options he gives were stated as if they are some sort of agreed upon law. There is no right/wrong sensitivity or FOV. There is no right/wrong use of accel. Players like Daler and czm (mostly czm) have proven that you can use the railgun out of position if you simply dedicate your game to that playstyle.

Learn this shit.

Vedic - you offer some interesting points, but some of it doesn't really make sense given what you're quoting.

FOV: Yup, fov settings are a matter of personal preference. But obviously the guide itself already mentions that altered fov settings aren't always better. It's right there in your own quote: 'often'.

Mouse Accel: Yes, not the most useful tip. It holds true for a number of other shooters (UT series in particular), but not so much for Quake.

Railgun: You said it yourself: several skilled players have made it part of their playstyle. Does that mean newbies should emulate this straight away? No, of course not.
Do you honestly think that someone who can barely use a railgun from range will benefit from trying to use it up-close as well? It's better to learn the common use first (rail for range) and the other use (close quarters rail) as you have gained experience and started forming your own playstyle (if it even suits your playstyle).
It's better to start one step at a time then trying to learn everything all at once. That will only slow you down.


@ KILLER397: Marijn - I think you misspelled something there.

FOV: Yup, fov settings are a matter of personal preference. But obviously the guide itself already mentions that altered fov settings aren't always better. It's right there in your own quote: 'often'.

A beginner has bigger things to worry about than FOV, but the guide is worded in a way that the newbie will get the impression that it is required. We need to get away from that kind of CS-style mentality.

Mouse Accel: Yes, not the most useful tip. It holds true for a number of other shooters (UT series in particular), but not so much for Quake.

Not useful at all. You can be extremely accurate while having accel if you get used to it. Sure, there is a small margin of error, but I'd like to see anyone hit the same pixel more than once even without it.

Railgun: You said it yourself: several skilled players have made it part of their playstyle. Does that mean newbies should emulate this straight away? No, of course not.

I disagree. If you teach a newbie about RL splash damage without emphasizing the use of direct hits, he'll ONLY rely on splash damage. Trust me, I've seen it DOZENS of times. I've had to learn to start teaching newbies to respect splash damage, but not to rely on it.

Do you honestly think that someone who can barely use a railgun from range will benefit from trying to use it up-close as well? It's better to learn the common use first (rail for range) and the other use (close quarters rail) as you have gained experience and started forming your own playstyle (if it even suits your playstyle).

No guide can ever properly tell you how to use weapons in Quake. Nothing compares to trial and error, but a guide only giving you half the story can severely impair or halt your development.

It's better to start one step at a time then trying to learn everything all at once. That will only slow you down.

Just because you need to do things 1 step at a time doesn't mean you have to walk. Slowing down your pace why most people give up/fail. This is exactly why matchmaking will kill what chance QL had.

if im not wrong i would bet most of the top players uses some kind of Accel nowdays.

why would you take the median? surely arithmetic mean :-/

why the fuck do you reply to vedic? he would argue vs a page in the newspapers about the weather forecast for an hour.

Leave him alone, there will be an influx of newer players with QuakeLive, don't burn the well-meaning ones.

Leading new players along the wrong path is far more destructive.

You're trying to pick holes for the sake of it, there's nothing wrong with this advice for a new player.

Yes, there is.

shutup, bitch.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but you're still a faggot.

shut the hell up, bitch. god you're annoying as hell.

Ignore button is that way --->

Bed is also that way. You should get some sleep so you don't miss the bus for school.

weak, weak :D

tip #19 for beginners: Ignore oldschool smartasses like Vedic.

:D

I'm done hating him, now I just listen and don't agree or get angry.

Ah yes, you treat him like a politician. Smart move

actually there isnt vedic. I am saying this because I remember the days of q3 and the games before and how hard it was for a new player to get any proper information on getting better.

They had to somehow stumble on it and websites were very scarce. Nobody knew about server browsers to even find games, let alone finding one with the proper mod that would allow them to get in touch with the people who knew what was what.


ANY info that doesnt stray too far from the main point of improving a player or gives straight out wrong information (which this article does not really) is a good thing for quake live. You don't have to like the game I can respect that but there is no reason not to want to have new quake players popping up.

ANY info that doesnt stray too far from the main point of improving a player or gives straight out wrong information (which this article does not really) is a good thing for quake live. You don't have to like the game I can respect that but there is no reason not to want to have new quake players popping up.

Perhaps in a game a bit more forgiving than Quake, but even a moderate gap in skill can result in a 50-0 game. Progression in Quake has never been fun, as it is a very steep and long grind. Giving someone the wrong foot to start on can make that grind even longer, and only crush their motivation. Optimism is what killed the game the first time around.

I might not be the friendliest person, but I do like Quake (CPMA, not QL). The reason I point these things out is not because I don't want new players, it's because I see it as shooting the new players in the foot.

You are right if the materials in a guide are disleading and outright wrong. All I am saying is that this one isnt like that as far as I saw. Therefore I don't see it as shooting a new player in the foot. More like a push in the general direction of getting better but would not compare to say, the tutolage of a good player, which it does not claim to be anyway.

My point is that these pushes (if done with this way) will direct new players to the details that will actually help them on the 50-0 losses. A new player WILL get 50-0'd no matter what guide is written or by whom, but it will help.

My point is that these pushes (if done with this way) will direct new players to the details that will actually help them on the 50-0 losses. A new player WILL get 50-0'd no matter what guide is written or by whom, but it will help.

I don't know how many newbies you've introduced to the game, but the dozens I have helped in the past would disagree. Again, as I pointed out, it took me many newbies to figure this out, but you should avoid teaching someone to use splash damage with the RL early on. 99% of newbies will never develop beyond just using splash damage.

It can be the smallest little things, but Quake doesn't offer it's subtle nuances freely.

I would say alot in the 10 years (Yeah wasted/enjoyed 10 years :/) I played since qw.

You are going into detail with the rl splash thing. In a grander scale a newbie will improve himself by building his skill with these sort of information. Ultimately he does this himself by learning tidbits from people like us. Just the fact alone that he is introduced to the rocket splash concept will more likely push him to try it out and see the results. Which is what we basically did when we started. Of course it all depends on him whether he will make it or not to be a good player in the end.

What I mean is, at the core of it we don't create the good players. We all just give pushes (small or large depending on influence, natural learning ability of the guy, and our "teaching skills", and many other factors) but in the end its the player himself that must complete the puzzle with the pieces given to him. Trial and error, and discarding stuff he sees unfit will decide the outcome. You could say the above is a bit similar to Darwinism. Thats why we have so many cs players :D

I'm saying that these things don't influence them. They never get creative because Quake isn't about instant feedback. Even if they try something, they don't get an idea if it's actually helping. Newbies will stick to the first things they learn, unless they're lucky enough to get help along the way.

For the ones that don't (the majority), guides like this will only help push them away.

But I myself am an example of the opposite theory.

I played with a kb for a little under a year. and I had a sensitivity of like... 20, and I had to go through the whole process of learning by watching players and just gathering whatever information was on the net (still thankful for a site called methos for giving a good introduction)

You gotta remember that even the most basic stuff which is obvious for us now we all have learned over time. Newbies arent as linear as you make them out to be. If you said they were less patient and more headstrong these days because they figure they did ok with halo, they should do ok in quake than you would have a good point, the ones that arent like can eventually improve with the puzzle solving outlook. How far they will improve depends on natural talent in my opinion.

The test of time has already shown that the optimism that you hope for doesn't work. This is why the game died the first time.

The majority will turn their backs on the game, just like before. The difference is that the game already has a reputation for being dead, so things like this prove to be a bigger threat now than they were even before. Let's not forget that the first time around, people had less options to switch to. There are dozens of casual games just waiting for these newbies to ragequit back to now.

The test of time has already shown that the optimism that you hope for doesn't work. This is why the game died the first time.

and the test of time has shown fuck all about the effect of guides (even if they are far from perfect) cause there never were any. And noone with some experience in the community will ever write a great guide because of people like you (and to some degree me :P).

Yeah, they could have added more like "mostly" "often" and "at first" but I mean did you really tell the people you taught to use rail in close combat cause czm does it??
What would be wrong with telling newbies that using rail in close combat and shotgun in ranged combat are mostly bad choices.


In the end I think the best guide would be written in a "if you ever wondered ..." style, such as:

"if you ever wondered why some player move much faster, it's calle dstrafe jumping and works like..."
"if you ever wondered which weapon to choose in which situation, here are some general thoughts ..."

etc.

These is nothing wrong with giving the basic information, which is why i defend this guide :)

and the test of time has shown fuck all about the effect of guides (even if they are far from perfect) cause there never were any.

There were a few, but I mostly refer to the soundbites of misinformation that this guide is made up of which caused issues individually.

Yeah, they could have added more like "mostly" "often" and "at first" but I mean did you really tell the people you taught to use rail in close combat cause czm does it??

No, I would expect them to figure it out as they go. If that's what comes naturally, maybe that's just the playstyle that they have. Telling someone not to use a rail in close range or in tight hallways doesn't make them any better of a player.

What would be wrong with telling newbies that using rail in close combat and shotgun in ranged combat are mostly bad choices.

So long as you go into proper detail, it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd still stand by trial and error. Quake takes a long time to move through the levels of progression, and there are things you need to know and don't need to know at each point. I think you'll notice that the majority of people around have been playing since Doom/QW, and they all had to learn on their own.

Hmm, I do wonder though why almost every sport has some sort of strategy guide, "tips & tricks" and so on if trial and error really is the best way to learn.

e.g. in chess everybody who wants to be any good uses opening books and endgame strategies. In football you have certain standard plays that everybody knows, tennis uses certain techniques to hit a ball.

In my opinion guides that are not too strict are very helpful if not essential in teaching people new things. Best way is of course a person but after that a written guide that establishes some standards if way better than nothing. Even if some standards become obsolete later, you can see it as a trial and error, too: "tried that advice, didn't work, not gonna listen to it."

e.g. in chess everybody who wants to be any good uses opening books and endgame strategies. In football you have certain standard plays that everybody knows, tennis uses certain techniques to hit a ball.

You can learn an opening in chess even if you barely know how to play a game, but it will only help you if you know what to do from that point.

In my opinion guides that are not too strict are very helpful if not essential in teaching people new things. Best way is of course a person but after that a written guide that establishes some standards if way better than nothing. Even if some standards become obsolete later, you can see it as a trial and error, too: "tried that advice, didn't work, not gonna listen to it."

I see too many newbies who will blame the game/themselves instead of considering the info that they have received. I know it sounds logical to have it work the way you describe, and I'd like to think that I did the same thing during my development, but I keep seeing it fail each and every time I have been introducing new players to the game. Perhaps some of us (especially the ones now who are still around) do work that way, but I don't see it as a viable way for Joe Average.

I don't profess to know the best way to teach a newbie, either, as I have yet to manage to get one to stick with the game. One of the closest ones was a CS-playing Canadian named shag, who got fairly good in OSP with my help, and even went on to play chance/cl0ck a bit. I think he figured he couldn't get any better, and went on to play insta unfreeze or some such.

well, basically I think the perfect way to teach is to give pushes in the right direction and that is speaking in general not just games.

So basically you tell them what to look for and what to think about, e.g. try to find out which weapon you can use in this and this situation. And the let them tell you their thought process and correct them if needed and compliment them if they are right.
Bad part is that the students tend to be a little fed up with you, though. e.g just tell me already you arrogant asshole :P


also, holy shit this is the first normal discussion I had with you, ever...

well, basically I think the perfect way to teach is to give pushes in the right direction and that is speaking in general not just games.

So basically you tell them what to look for and what to think about, e.g. try to find out which weapon you can use in this and this situation. And the let them tell you their thought process and correct them if needed and compliment them if they are right.
Bad part is that the students tend to be a little fed up with you, though. e.g just tell me already you arrogant asshole :P

I agree, but how can we apply this to Quake in a productive way? I mean, I've tried giving advice the way you described, and I've tried many different other ways including how I described, and while my other ways seem to have produced better results, I still can't get people to stick with it. Have you had any success?

also, holy shit this is the first normal discussion I had with you, ever...

Most discussions get heated early on, so I don't get to be civil. =P

And everyone just goes "LOL TROLL NIGGAPLZ"

"The test of time has already shown that the optimism that you hope for doesn't work. This is why the game died the first time."

My opinion is more based on my evaluation rather than some optimistic hope. I don't see how optimism kills a game. it was lack of support and features that killed the game(which is the developers fault) not counting mods holding some population later on, and the conditions of the time (stuff like broadband not being very widespread, which is nobodies fault)

"The majority will turn their backs on the game, just like before. The difference is that the game already has a reputation for being dead,"

Newbies don't even know if a game is dead or not. its been like 9-10 years now. We have a whole new generation that wondered wtf this old quake game was and shooted up single player to check it out AT MOST. This qlive business is atleast a chance to get all these people in.

It was the bad public gameplay that killed the game.

I think you're right.

I've seen a lot of gamers quit Quake and shooters like it (UT in a sense, Painkiller, and so on) for one main reason: it's too difficult on publics. Which gives them the sense of it having bad public gameplay.

Nearly all of them loved the game and wanted to play more, but just didn't think it was worth it because they could barely get any kills in - even on public servers.

Quake Live (attempts to) eliminates this problem with it's matchmaking concept. An Expert classed player can't join Beginner class servers, but Beginners can join Expert classed servers.

This allows newbies to choose whether to just have fun in publics, or to actually train to become a better player. The latter allows players to practice just like the rest of used to do back in the day, whereas the former draws in a lot more average players who can have fun without being blown apart every 5 seconds.

I've tried to get some of my shooter-playing friends into these kinds of games in the past and none of them lasted. All of them citing the same things: awesome game, great for LAN (when more of those less skilled players join in), but too difficult online.

So the whole matchmaking concept may sound overly noob-friendly, but I think it might just help to keep a larger group of players playing (once stats are turned back on).

That wasn't what I meant at all. Q3 and QL FFA/DM mode is fun for a while but it's not engaging enough to have players consistently play it.

With the exception of perhaps Halo2/3 (Which I've no experience with) all the top online multiplayer games are structured around something. CS with the bombsites, Battlefield with the capture points, Wolfenstein/ET with objectives and so on.

In Q3/QL it should be the powerups Quad/BS/Invis/Haste/Regen but the game mechanics and the maps turn the FFA/DM mode into a mostly mindless affair. This just doesn't capture peoples attention for long term periods of time which is why people stopped playing Q3 in the first place.

CA/CTF/TDM are a little better but they too are infected with this lack of structure and focus. Duel is the only mode that is good and it won't be able to sustain a community.

Oh you arent wrong or anything about that

I don't see how optimism kills a game. it was lack of support and features that killed the game(which is the developers fault) not counting mods holding some population later on, and the conditions of the time (stuff like broadband not being very widespread, which is nobodies fault)

Q3, while not the deepest Quake, was still a very difficult game, especially at the time it was released. The optimism I refer to is that things will work out on their own. The problem is the exact opposite - players CAN'T learn on their own. There are too many "guides" and "get there quick" schemes - especially bad ones. When you started with Doom or Quake, who taught you? Essentially, the majority of people still around are the ones that have been here for 10 years. It takes about that long to really develop correctly.

Newbies don't even know if a game is dead or not. its been like 9-10 years now. We have a whole new generation that wondered wtf this old quake game was and shooted up single player to check it out AT MOST. This qlive business is atleast a chance to get all these people in.

Working in LAN centers and talking to the newbies that came in over the years, while trying to spread the word of Quake, you'd be surprised how many people know. It's easily enough to stop many people from even touching it. Go take a look at the average post in the QL forums.

Things never get sorted out on their own. But from the way you put it there is not even a correct way then. If there is help on the internet and such you seem to take them as bad guides and get-there-fast schemes (not sure what you meant by that)

But if there is no help then you also say its bad (which it obviously is) as new players don't develop.


About the new players. They are there in the ql servers, extremely easy to spot and in great quantities. The forums also has them to some degree but most seemed more experiences so i assume the silent server players are the newbies. So I don't think ql or any guide is currently giving them problems, but we'll see in a month or two if they will stay or not.

Things never get sorted out on their own. But from the way you put it there is not even a correct way then. If there is help on the internet and such you seem to take them as bad guides and get-there-fast schemes (not sure what you meant by that)

You can write a good guide, but it's still no substitute for learning it on your own. I have yet to see a good guide, however. I point out the "get-there-fast" problems in that newbies have no discipline. Everyone wants to get to the top of the chain as fast as possible (same mentality that ruins WoW) and are only concerned with that, as if there is no other place where you can have fun. This isn't something that anyone can just speed through. Think of how your progression worked from QW to today - you weren't out for learning at all points, it just sorta happened with how much you played.

But if there is no help then you also say its bad (which it obviously is) as new players don't develop.

Helping a player is more than giving him directions, you have to walk him to where he needs to go. If you can explain something to a newbie and then specifically play against him and give him feedback on what he is doing, that's helpful. If you tell a newbie "time armors, shoot stuff, and move fast," that's not helpful.

About the new players. They are there in the ql servers, extremely easy to spot and in great quantities. The forums also has them to some degree but most seemed more experiences so i assume the silent server players are the newbies. So I don't think ql or any guide is currently giving them problems, but we'll see in a month or two if they will stay or not.

The newbies on most servers don't have any want/need to improve. That was you back when you started. If the game keeps them interested simply for the game, they have the potential to develop these skills. The ones who try to force it and rush through it are the ones who will find it annoying/difficult and quit. This is why guides (especially bad ones) hurt the playerbase. You need to foster a love for the game instead of a love for improvement.

From the way you give me as an example you seem to be taking a laissez faire stand point on the subject as you have never seen a good guide before (Fooki had a pretty good guide written for q4, not that it would have made a difference with that game).

Now I don't really mind a lassez faire approach as it is not wrong really. With or without guides it will be the game that will decide if the players will remain or not. So lets just say unless a guide is written REALLY wrong (like say, "only use rail. the other weapons are useless") then it will not really matter on the outcome on whether new players will emerge, improve, or quit?

So lets just say unless a guide is written REALLY wrong (like say, "only use rail. the other weapons are useless") then it will not really matter on the outcome on whether new players will emerge, improve, or quit?

From what I've seen, even the smallest hindrance can stop a newbie, and it takes a lot of help to keep them around. The best guide is a personal human trainer, and only if someone is looking for one.

A hindrance in this game can be many things. most that don't even have to do with a guide or anything else. If you support laissez faire like I said, that is fine really.

Saying that because a Tutor is always the best way to teach a newbie anyway. So thats a safe argument nobody can refute.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.
I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

I could go on, but this smells of troll.

Again! I love repetition!

you missed a break there

10 print , 20 goto 10 etc would have been more elegant.

man I thought you do sometimes make small posts, till your post was passed through a BASIC interpreter.


your identity was immediately authenticated.

idiot

EPIC FAIL, most of the proquakers use fovscript which means that every weapon got a fov of their own and their basic fov is around 105-115...

also please stop shitting about things that are explained clearly later on the text :))

Dunno who told you that, but youre wrong about fovscript as well as fov 105_115

look at fox's, avek's or cypher's configs... they all include different fovs for different weapons..

You said "most of the proquakers".
Only fox uses many different fovs afaik. Cypher and Av3k just use different zooms.

... you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Tell that to Daler and czm.


Oh shit - does cooller know?

I could go on, but this smells of troll. Not only does your "guide" provide several dozen incorrect "tips," it doesn't even do it as well as guides that already suck.

now, we all know that you're a fucking retard. but SOMEHOW you manage to top even yourself.

if you haven't noticed, this is a GUIDE FOR BEGINNERS. so writing down stuff like "Tell that to Daler and czm" and "Oh shit - does cooller know?" buries you in stupidity.

lets see it again, maybe you missed it somehow:

=> "18 tips for beginners".

No doubt you would give them a better advice, like "time 2 armors and a MH for 15 minutes" cause COOLLER DOES SO.

sure you would, cause you're a fucking brainless cripple.

"tell that to daler and czm?" - this one's even better.

i mean, why not shoot 60pct rail from the 1st contact with the game? that's the way to go. after all, daler and czm do it, so its a nice way to start your quakelive experience. if only we all knew that from the start, maybe we wouldn't miss most of the shots?

this guide is, for the most part, an excellent "guide for beginners".

and you're a fucking idiot. once *again*.

if you haven't noticed, this is a GUIDE FOR BEGINNERS. so writing down stuff like "Tell that to Daler and czm" and "Oh shit - does cooller know?" buries you in stupidity.

I'm not surprised that the deeper aspects of the post have eluded you. Telling someone that some part of the game can't be done will only STIFLE growth. Someone who would be adept in these strategies but weak in others might simply never develop in the game and quit because they thought the game just wasn't working for them.

i mean, why not shoot 60pct rail from the 1st contact with the game? that's the way to go. after all, daler and czm do it, so its a nice way to start your quakelive experience. if only we all knew that from the start, maybe we wouldn't miss most of the shots?

If they want to, let them. Instead of telling them "THIS DOESN'T WORK, DON'T DO IT" when it obviously DOES work is just moronic, at best. Since you still struggle with bots, and have never helped newbies to progress in the game, you fail to even understand what I'm talking about here.

Haven't you been dominated enough already?

now bring your wife here, cause the combination of your two brains could actually pull this one off.

here goes. i'll go slow, cause i'm good and i wont make fun of retards.

> the players you mentioned as the role models..

...actually....

...probably...

...started with this tips...

...before...

...they could do...

...what you wrote.

put some time into it, i'm sure you'll get it.

Most of the players who are at top level in Quake have been playing since QW/Doom. No, there weren't guides back in the day!

you're trying to make fun of a beginners guide with "its not how pro's do it."

that's just stupid.

also, what does qw have to do with anything? you have a record of players who played qw before and the amount of affect it had for them in quake3?

you're trying to make fun of a beginners guide with "its not how pro's do it."

that's just stupid.

No, if you bothered to read my post (you never do), I most specifically was targeting the learning process. Quake has many different styles, and attempting to tell someone that any of which are wrong, especially when it's been proven that they work up to the highest level of play, is just ignorant.

Learning for yourself is the best and only way to really improve at the game. Some minor things should be told to a newbie to inform them of options, but you should never direct his path.

of course i read it, but anyway.

what exactly here is obstructing the "freedom" of a newbie? have you even read what it says?

the pointers are as good as they get. there are a few that i find none important, such as "join a clan", and "different game modes for practice", cause they wouldnt necessarily help.

but 1-9 are *extremely* useful for someone who is only starting. also they mention the importance of timing and sound. there's nothing wrong with it, in fact, they are crucial advices for someone to progress *faster* than to learn on his own.

kids dont fuck around with derivations and roots in the first grade ffs.

You've clearly never tried to get a newbie into Q3, or found a newbie on a server who needed some pointers. Q3 is very unfriendly, and a player will only stick around if they are having fun. Stifling the only means by which they MIGHT have fun will only help to kill the game.

In 2002, a similar guide would have been "ONLY USE RG ALL THE TIME" as that's pretty much how everybody played the game. If I was just starting out, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have kept playing as my style has always been centered around my LG accuracy from the start. Why do you think I was making fun of all the xerp whiners? LG has always been godly, they just never used it.

Sure, this guide might inform someone of many of the aspects of the game, but it's absolutely shitty for keeping them around.

You've clearly never tried to get a newbie into Q3, or found a newbie on a server who needed some pointers. Q3 is very unfriendly, and a player will only stick around if they are having fun. Stifling the only means by which they MIGHT have fun will only help to kill the game.

and how is that opposed to this guide? this is pretty much long-term gain, cause it points out even the advanced stuff which needs a LOT of time to master, not some ultrabasic info such as weapon description etc.

second, noone is OBLIGED to do whatever the guide says, but surely can take more than something out of it if they read it.

this is a GOOD guide for beginners, and you tried to make fun of it which was extremely stupid. you might as well admit that you talked shit about something just cause you're a troll, and are used to such things.

period.

second, noone is OBLIGED to do whatever the guide says, but surely can take more than something out of it if they read it.

Again, you've obviously never tried to teach a newbie in Q3 as this just isn't the case. Since you don't know the situation at hand, you can't possibly expect to understand this or argue against it.

Actually, I'm still wondering how you even managed to learn how to operate a keyboard and mouse.

you have most probably never *ever* won an argument.

you just talk some shit cause its your job as a troll to do so, and then you go *so* *much* off topic and bore people so they stop replying to you. then you think you won. but the fact is, you kinda didn't. and i'm pretty sure that you're aware of that.


you didn't even manage to get past Comment #116 btw so...

You have yet to provide an argument. Stellar use of ignorance, though.

Until you put me on ignore, you're going to have to deal with the fact that I will dominate you over and over again.

you dominate me by being unable to change the fact you wrote some serious bullshit as above?

that's some strange theory.

but i guess its easier to convince yourself in it, than to admit you're mindless.

You're still here denying how things went down despite being proven completely wrong on multiple occasions and even made fun of by the people who normally argue with me. Denial tourettes ftw!

this is again beyond stupid, so i'll do one more.

you made fun and talked shit about a perfectly good beginners guide for quake live. your arguments were so bad, it looked like a retard wrote them. whatever you wrote afterwards, wasn't really important, and was total bs, cause you failed to provide a single valid argument why is that guide bad for beginners. and you failed cause its not possible. therefore the OT and shit about how you tried to taught people q3 and similar nonsense, how people played QW etc. you see, all of that is BS.


its all in the first post, it reminded anyone who forgot how stupid and bitter you really are.

thats pretty much it.

I'm afraid I can't be offended by insults that are made in such broken English - especially not the 10th time around with the same lack of substance.

It's up to me to save this thread

Most of the players who are at top level in Quake have been playing since QW/Doom. No, there weren't guides back in the day!

this is where you hit rock bottom by writing something that has absolutely *nothing* to do with this.

you know it, and i know it, and you feel so ashamed i'm almost sorry for you. deal with it.

trust me. there are so many topics out there where you can find at least a glimpse of a hope of an element for your need for serious trolling.

you simply died here, its over dude.




btw english is not my 1st language obviously, but even that comes as an wannabe-argument when all else fails, right?


poor guy.


that's it from me, so feel free to reply again, there won't be an answer here.

this is where you hit rock bottom by writing something that has absolutely *nothing* to do with this.

Actually, it does. Anyone who has gotten anywhere has gotten there on their own - not through "LEARN QUAKE IN 24 HOURS!" guides.

that's it from me, so feel free to reply again, there won't be an answer here.

Promises, promises...

bs. every russian player started with accel. They didnt turn it off while were beginners

while we're at it, again:

[Croatia, Republic of] Lethe, QL: Wins / Losses: 228 / 14

[USA] Vedic, Forum Troll: Wins / Losses: 0 / God Knows...

I imagine most of those tips can be useful for people who are completely new to deathmatch, but albeit being an angry person Vedic is not entirely wrong.

The one about turning off mouse accel is indeed quite pointless, I'd rather keep it general and say that there is a possibility to remove accel, but ultimately it's up to the individual player which settings he plays best.

Instead of telling a new player to "use a slim playermodel", tell them about cg_forceEnemyModel, and generally direct them to http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11013 and to go through some of the variables to see if they can make the game fit their individual needs to eliminate any hinderance to their performance.

other than that, nice effort.

as for the mouse accel: rather tell new players that using accel will result in nonlinear movement which is harder to learn as you have to remember turning speed as well, not just the distance. this might lead to inconsistent aim simply because it's less intuitive, but you can still master it. a good idea for a freshman could be to use no accel so he gets very consistent aim though.

good effort, keep it up! :)

I'd say accel is bad for everyone. Sure lexer proved that with 10 hours of play each day you can get pretty good, but i still believe top aimers in general doesn't use it, its just inconsistant. Its one of the tips i have given to several players as well that struggled with aim, and i'm glad to see they've all improved vastly after turning it off.

same here, but still I don't think you should say that it is bad in general, it can work but it is probably not the right setup for 99% of players, agreed. :)

Getting used to accel can perhaps be harder for a beginner, but a lot of top players use some amount of accel. ArrW, cooler, cypher, fooki, fox, griffin, jibo, k1llmas, killsen, lexer, rapha, unity, ZeRo4, Z4muZ to name some (in alphabetical order, heheh).
edit: stalker, frozen and makaveli too
Im obsessed 8)

czm, at one point, as well.

cypher uses it, cooller uses it, jibo i think too and i've a feeling av3k does? i'm not sure maybe someone can correct me here. i use it as well! many great aimers have been accelers~. you don't need nearly as much practice as you may think, i used to think the same until i started using it again.

imo what spyteman said on accel regarding original context of the post is most accurate.

av3k does not

great? you just listed the majority of the best fps aimers ;p

thanks

does strenx use accel ?

it takes ages for him to turn around, so I guess not or not to a significant amount. he's easily lifting his mouse 15 times to turn around :D

name one of these players who plays less than 8 hours a day? The one i can remember that didn't prac for a short while and did bad was cooller. Maybe accel is not the entire reason, but my point stand. You can get good with lots and lots of practice, but in the end no accel is better and easier getting back to from a break as well.

"name one of these players who plays less than 8 hours a day?"

rofl, none of pros played even close to that much of practice the whole last year ;)

obviously since there are no tournaments :p anyways... The point stands. You need to prac a lot extra to get a proper feel for the aim, and to be anywhere near consistent. Obviously its still a matter of preference and depends on how you aim(technique). in 1on1 vq3 and pretty much all types of duels in quake you usually have a good idea where your opponent is coming from, so pointing the mouse in that direction helps a lot. However, if you get surprised like you do in tdm at times your aim will probably be more stable in these situations of panic :)

i'd say there were more duel tournaments last year then the whole 5 years before that combined :P

Since QL was announced, casually... or not?

huh?

we were talking about pros, so obviously i meant pro tournaments, has nothing todo with ql...

looks like you are completely ignoring the benefits of accel in your statements and just assume that accel and no accel give you the same results while playing with accel is harder to learn.

Oh and from a technical viewpoint acceleration is as a rule not inconsistent! Or do you think a car's acceleration is inconsistent?

Furthermore you already manage acceleration while aiming, because you can't instantly jump to a certain movement speed so in fact your aim is accelerating all the time, however briefly it may be.


/edit

before spyteman or some other nerd jumps at it, yes I am aware that acceleration in general can be inconsistent.

since when did a car accelerate up down and to the sides?
Anyways, a car is a machine. and you don't read.

You can get pretty damn accurate with acceleration and it DOES have benefits but while moving fine mechanics(moving a mouse on a small surface) you wan't this to be as consistent as picking up a cup, taking the same amount of strength and coordination to do the same movement over and over.

Anyways, believe what you wan't but for a beginner accel is maybe a bit helpful at first, but usually devastating in the long run.

it's called steering, torque, airflow, springs and other factors.

and I read just fine.
"picking up a cup" huh?
do I smell acceleration again?

I suppose what you are trying and failing to say is that the "accel" command adds extra acceleration to the acceleration coming from you hand movement.

You need to understand that there is no real linearity in human movement. It actually hard to find anywhere...

Anyway, I just pointed out two things: a) There alwaysis acceleration and b) There are benefits in the game from having accel not just bad effects.
And i do stand by that.


Also, you last sentence really makes no sense. Or wouldn't you agree that most players are "beginners" at first and then in the long run they stop being beginners???

"You can get pretty damn accurate with acceleration and it DOES have benefits but while moving fine mechanics(moving a mouse on a small surface) you wan't this to be as consistent as picking up a cup, taking the same amount of strength and coordination to do the same movement over and over."

Uh, did you miss the part where 'acceleration' is consistent? It takes EXACTLY the same amount of strength and coordination to do the same movement over and over with accel. What is your point again?

i recall k1ller saying in an interview he played 10 hours for praccy thx

he's german tho

and look where that got him...

oh wait.

maybe he meant "in total"

"You can get good with lots and lots of practice, but in the end no accel is better and easier getting back to from a break as well."

This is simply not true. Once you're used to it, its like riding a bicycle. In fact, because movements with accel are approximate it has been easier for me to get back to decent aim after months of inactivity, a few hours, compared to days when I used normal sensitivity. And I have used each for very long periods. Years of no accel, years of accel, years of no accel when I was hoping to move on to Q4, which turned out to blow, and then I switched back when I realised why I switched to accel in the first place. And I'll be using it as long as I can.

Uh if there is one thing I have learned from years of playing quake it's that you want to reduce the amount of variables influencing your aim as much as possible. Using mouse acceleration will just add another needless layer of complexity on top of the million little things that determine if you'll hit that game winning rail with 2 seconds left on the clock.

Sure you can learn to aim with accel, you can also learn to aim with a trackball, or a game pad, or whatever if you practice long enough. But for sane people who want to move from A to B in the shortest path, DO NOT USE ACCEL. The supposed theoretical benefits just don't apply in practice, and the fact that some top players use it is irrelevant. They would aim just as good if not better without it.

"Uh if there is one thing I have learned from years of playing quake it's that you want to reduce the amount of variables influencing your aim as much as possible."

Are you sure? You know, your mouse is a variable. Have you thought of eliminating the use of the mouse?

"Using mouse acceleration will just add another needless layer of complexity on top of the million little things that determine if you'll hit that game winning rail with 2 seconds left on the clock."

It's only needless to you. Just because you have no freaking idea how its absolutely vital to me as one of those little things that determines if I hit that game winning rocket within 2 seconds left on the clock, doesn't mean that "it's needless" universally.

"Sure you can learn to aim with accel, you can also learn to aim with a trackball, or a game pad, or whatever if you practice long enough."

Or your own damn mouse? What the fuck is your point? That one needs to learn it? LOL yeah, learning shit like aiming techniques, strategies and other stuff and as a result getting better? Yeah, FUCK THAT.

"But for sane people who want to move from A to B in the shortest path, DO NOT USE ACCEL."

Are you an idiot? This is exactly what ACCEL does. It makes you travel shorter distance when you want, by moving the mouse faster. For people without accel, who want to move from A to B in the shortest path, THERE IS NO SHORTEST PATH.

"The supposed theoretical benefits just don't apply in practice,"

How the fuck would you know? I say they do. And everything you said simply proved that you're not even qualified to have an opinion, so there. You just proved you wrong.

"and the fact that some top players use it is irrelevant."

How the fuck is it irrelevant? Because they are top players, they are better than you, have better aim than you, have played the game more than you, more qualified to know what is better, and last but not least, know what is better for better aim better than you.

"They would aim just as good if not better without it."

How the fuck would you know? You have the least clue out of the bunch.

I don't really feel like you deserve a response, but anyway

What I wrote is MY OPINION. Yes I know a hard concept to understand for a internet crybaby like you, who has to get his panties in a bunch when someone disagrees with him.

I like to base my opinion on my own experiences, not on other peoples experiences. I have played long enough both with and without accel to come to the conclusion that accel is a bunch of bullshit.

But hey some top players (like yourself no doubt) use it so it must be zOMG the best because they know way more then a average noob like me, right? Well maybe you should start using a razer cypher mouse too, hell why not use his complete cfg and while your at it get a fatality keyboard which you can place next to your rapha bible. Because we all know those things are the factors that make the difference between a pro and a noob.

So when I say to some new player "If you want to take the shortest path from A to B" (which of course is meant figuratively not literally, pea brain) with regards to learning how to aim, MY OPINION based on years of playing quake is to stay away from mouse acceleration.

Now they can take that advice (from some random noob like me) or yours (a top earning pro gamer), I don't really give a fuck, it's up to them.

Haha, you just wrote SIX paragraphs of emotional diatribe without ONE BIT of factual argumentation on the actual topic of the argument. And you think I got my panties in a bunch?
At least you admited to just stating opinion. It's not hard to understand, it's just that it's worthless when the other side operates in mechanics and logic. Overwhelming experience speaking against yours is just extra validation.

I'm sorry but I seem to have missed your "scientific facts" on why mouse acceleration is superior. Oh sorry, I forgot... it's because you think so based on your own experiences, silly me.

There are numerous posts outlining these facts, even as recently as one post above "This is exactly what ACCEL does. It makes you travel shorter distance when you want, by moving the mouse faster."
Learn to read, silly you.

But what if I prefer to have a linear relationship between cursor movement and mouse movement, because (for me, and many others) it leads to far more consistent aim.

Try again.

But what if I prefer to have a non-linear relationship between cursor movement and mouse movement, because (for me, and many others) it leads to far more consistent aim.

Try again.

Oh wait I forgot, your opinions are scientific facts.

Try making a word with these 4 letters: F A L I

Are you that stupid? My point was that your point is ridiculous.

nope not a scientific fact either

try again

lol

FILA,

good brand really.

Try it.

dude, uve ever seen arrw + his cfg? he is a great aimer and he uses accel.

why topic says 18 hints since the article is about 16 hints :(

and yes, very good for newbies :)

Obviously it's an analytical test for beginning Quake Live players. Those who notice it can grow to be pro Quakers, those who don't will be eternally noob.

I actually think this is a pretty good article for noobs!

I hope it helps u a lot lol.

yea, i learnt alot..

:D

I feel like a noob in QL. Used to dominating in Q3 pretty much *blows at his fingernails*

yeap... bots are propably a bit better in QL than in Q3

Is it just me or are they timing armor? Annoying.

i also like the 'learn how to play quake' section in quakelive, there is like no information what so ever on anything. the only thing you learn is that all weapons are DEVASTATING, or something like that.

Don't question Jamerio, he's a genius.

/Srinivasa Ramanujan

I really hope this helps you out.

Best regards,
Marijn

made me grin, with all the newbies on esr nowadays :)

that being said i think the following is a piece of advice alot of players here can contribute from :)

9. Objectives > Frags

If you’re playing CTF then keep in mind that the objective is capturing and defending flags, not fragging. Don’t play like it’s DeathMatch!

Why is Vedic such an idiot?

cause there must be balance with the IQ180 people.

q3/ql/qw is dead
go play tf2 or smth else
btw who wants to play with such trolls anyhow? ;)