Oh well as a Ut2003 Dueller i should be happy about this.
but i really think Quake 3 Arena should be in.

no shit q3 should be in. i dunno y they're even thinking of ut2k3, barely 1/4 of the world's gamers have computers that r good enough to run it at GOOD frame rates; so i doubt many ppl play it that much, and judging from the stats of All Seeing Eye, q3 it still more popular

Well, UT should be in, too. Replacing UT & Q3 with UT2K3 is just the same bullshit as replacing SC with WC3 would be. I would understand if they had choosen Q3+UT+UT2K3, maybe UT2K3+Q3 would be enough, but UT2K3 only is definitely a big mistake.

As it was said before.. too sad that money rules the world :/

UT huh, hmm

Sujoy, every country must make qualifiers for every game or like other years the qualifier's host decides the games?

The guys who run the qualifier can decide which games they want mostly, but of course the spirit of the event is to create the national team to go to Korea, so the effort will be focussed on these games above.

Bad thing, i hope we don't have to see this year good teams/players watching the WCG at home cause there was no qualifier for their game on their country...

no q3 lame :(

So no q3 and no rtcw - it's a shame...

Starcraft, AOM UT2k3 - ridiculous...

maybe some antypathy for ID?

No Q3, this WCG is gonna be so damn boring with UT2003 imo :(

Amen

i am totally disgusted at the fact that they don't have a Quake 3 tournament, this is possibly the worst mistake WCG will ever make.

Where the hell is Quake3 ?!?!

How did Q3 ann RtCW fair on the WCG games poll? I'm sure these two games faired better than some of the games they eventually chose.

Why bother polling people if it isn't taken into consideration?

Did they have a poll this year?

yeah there was a poll.

Results? Link?

http://www.worldcybergames.com/poll.asp

Dunno what the results were though.

rtcw and quake 3 have always been at the top of the list. i think rtcw even one last year, or was up high. it still wasnt even picked.

The problem with RTCW is that it'll practically double the number of players taking part if CS is also included.

So it's basically a choice between the two, and even though RTCW is a better game (ahem), it's so much smaller that CS has to be used.

rtcw can be played with 6v6
its an extra 1 man per team. they upped the peize purse to 400k, 100k more then last year. so dont tell me they cant afford to send 1 extra man per team

he means that it would mean 10 or 11 players to take if they play rtcw and cs. rather than cs / q3 / ut whic would = 8 ish, then plus the fifa / aom aswell.

Plus it's not ICM that pay the flights for all the people who come, so it'd mean that most the national qualifiers would have to double in size.

good point

icm doesnt pay the flights anymore?
isnt it the national sponsors.. at least that was the reason for sweden not beeing able to send more than one cs team..

maybe they are top secret? Maybe $$$ mather in this poll?

where the world can become one via e-sports

hmmz except the Quake 3 esports world which I'd say was possible the biggest event at WCG since it started (in western countries).

No Quake III in the CPL, same with the WCG...

:(

WCG without Q3 is not a real WCG, someone should be kicked in the head. very very hard

couldn't agree more....

Maybe the coference, where Sujoy is going, will change something

Lets hope so

any reason why warcraft 3 is in brackets?

Quake 3 RIP

Maybe they're still wondering if they should swap Q3 with WC3? :)

why replacing q3 by wc3 ??? can't be both ???
wcg have sucked with this !

UT2003 isnt boring for players that are playing it hardcore.
I think Q3a is boring, all i see is people spamming grenades.
but still i have no clue why it aint in =( it should.

i dunno about you, but imo UT2k3 is 1 big grenade spam game on some maps. You start out with 5 grenades that u can shoot like across the map if u feel like it.

Just wait till we gonna get ut2k3-tv, and ppl will see grenade spam all over. whenever u kill someone, and he know u a low in health, it is almost 95% sure he will hunt u down with a full loaded nade, and spam it in ur face.

blind.

Even thou i am a ut2k3 player, i also feel q3 should be in... i just love watching a good OWNAGE game of q3 1on1 played by the best competitors in the world :x man im gonna miss that :(

q3 is a much better spectator game compared to ut2k3 :( sad to see this happens...

I really think that Quake ]I[ should be in.
Q3 is fast , spectacular and very exciting to watch/play.
This is just a giant mistake , quake still has a strong community and that community wants q3 on the WCG2003.

No Quake3?!!!! uhmmm... this sucks.
AOM?!? Empire Earth is MUCH better!!

Nothing more to say...

no WC3 :/

its on the list =/

I am really disapointed with the WCG for droping Quake3.Not only does Quake3 have a solid community, but it "is" the only spectator friendly game at the moment.Lets not forget the high level of skill from numerous players across the globe...

I'm all for new games entering the arena, but ignoring Quake3's spectator appeal, and the level of excitment that it brings is such a huge mistake.

Hopefully, Sujoy can convince them that they are making a huge mistake.

I'm going to boycott WCG...

Put back Quake3!!!

It's all about the money... (c) meya

if ($Q3 == false) {
$WCG = "sucks";
}

agree.

fuck this years wcg

if they wont put q3 back they will see how boring this tournament will be...

no Q3 ? is this right ?! .......

right...

Happy to see UT2003 is in, but not taking Q3 in is a bad idea imo. Even I dont really play Q3 I think its a MUST game to have in WCG just like CS and UT2003 is.

:<

wc3 it is for me, or maybe ut2k3... doubt it tho :P

who will be interested in the wcg if there is no q3
i'd say, boycott wcg through not doing any coverage about their events
if many esports sites would cooperate, wcg would be f...

I expect that sponsors are more interested in mainstream coverage, rather than what people are writing on niche websites :)

imagine no esports site reporting anything about WCG
how would players find their way to the so called "mainstream coverage"
it aint on TV on something
sites like this send worldcybergames their spectators

of course i know there is no possibility to convince most major sites to boycott wcg, since they wont care about q3 being in or not, and even if, they have to run their business
i know its also not possible on ESR, but hey, its a nice idea, isnt it?

Hmm I think you're a bit mixed up. There are maybe 50k regular readers of this site. Mainstream coverage is when you're looking at millions of viewers/readers. If we manage to send even 10,000 people to watch a TV report, that's not a very big deal.

I'm not your opponent in the argument though. Just realistically esports sites boycotting an event would be practically pointless and I'd be suprised if anyone would even noticed.

yes, i am not an expert in that
i can not imagine from where an esports event could get millions of spectators you are talking about, except from radio and TV
i really dont know
could you explain it to me pls?

edit: i think i got it
you dont mean only active gamers, but simple people on inet/TV/anywhere that hear about WCG, see a screenshot or a short ingame scene of AOM or something and a "sponsored by samsung" and think "hey, that looks nice, nice they make such events, and now im gonna buy a samsung tft", right?

Yea what you said at the end is right. 1 minute on BBC News is probably worth more than a day on the Game Network, which is worth more than a month on a gaming website. Something like that anyway.

this is constantly changing
in internets favour of course

That, and of course that many readers of this site will still be interested in WCG. So a boycott of the WCG or any other tournament will hurt this site much more than it will hurt the WCG.

lol there aren't only quake players on this site remember..

Sujoy: let's put it straight - was there ANY results for the poll in which people decided what game should be on WCG 2003?
AFAIK there was one - the only one that's important - on the WCG page not so long ago... WHY they keep hiding the results from us? Or maybe it's just that they CHEAT giving us some freaked data from nowwhere? 'We Koreans are better at strategies so let's win more medals!!! - Yeah hurrah!' - Just my point of view.

/PLANET

WCG is just as commercial as CPL, WWCL, and whatever
they dont care about the games and the players anymore

there needs to be a point where players stand up and say: hey, we dont play that shit just because we get money for it, we want to compete in the games we love

too bad that the so called progamers will also play everything that they can live from

I'm not WCG so don't blame me! Anyway I don't remember any poll this year. There was one for 2002 but obviously that was ages ago. Has anyone got a link for the 2003 poll you're talking about because I could use the poll results to help argue the case for Q3.

http://www.worldcybergames.com/poll.asp

there ya go

results?

not published - surprise?

There are no results because Quake 3 have more votes than w3 (nothing against w3, but OMG I want to kill Someone!!)

agree...

Cool, I'll harass them to get the results of this poll.

Sujoy - make a protest and say that You wont write anything about WCG on Your site. It's a big argument ;)

Though I didnt expect any good things really from WCG´s point of view, cause in year 2002 where there was WCG in Unreal Tournament (old 1), I pracced much because I wanted to participate @ WCG. Later I hear that scandinavia couldnt get any spots for WCG....

I guess that it was the same thing for the scandy Q3 players.

Sweden will not have any qualifiers att all except for Tetris which unfortunately isn't on the games list. However the swedish organizer claims that the other games are stonecold anyway and that even if the WCG at this point won't admit to that Tetris is the game of the future they will be forced to face reality someday.

The WCG crew also informs about the now compulsary training for all their staff. It's a two day course about how to break the rules in all possible ways during competition. The hardest part of the course seems to be that all the breaking has to be totally inconsistent and random. Students claim that as soon as they have started to master a certain abuse of the rules they must come up with a new one. They however have an excellent array of trainers from previous WCG competitions.

The administrators also claims to have troble with the groups as they will need change the bracket-program due to the fact that Russia and the USA will send so many people that they break the numeration-limit. At this point group A looks like this:
USA 12 vs RUSSIA 17
USA 9 vs RUSSIA 26
USA 34 vs RUSSIA 11
USA 27 vs Egypt 6
The argument that perhaps every nation should send an equal number of players were trashed as the only nations now holding qualifiers are those listed above.

Over and out

hahahahahah :D

Too good

So damn funny =) ....

What can i say, about time Q3 players start realising that Q3 have had its time... i dont understand how you can be disapointed when Q3 have been the biggest thing after CS the last couple of years... ffs how long do you actualy think it will last?
Ut2k3 for the people! oh yeah!

you obviously don't know what you are talking about... noob

afaik nobody actually said why Q3 isn't featured. Would be interested to know the reasons.

suxx.

without Q3, i dont care WCG anymore:(

true that. Wonder if ODB is going to korea since they also only like Q3.

They went to EC6 CS finals in rotterdam.

Because they where invited and it's only a few hours drive, think they also will got to WCG if their sponsor pays them again.

I was thinking to practice this year for WCG and with this news, man I'm so dissapointed, now think what people like zero4, unkind, akiles, etc, etc form every nation things now?

/me prays epic see's sense and allows TTM to be used in ut2!!
Without it its not only less skilled, but not spectator friendly too as they cant even see the players properly :/

q3 :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

Q3 is far from dead and think they really missing a lot of spectators by not having Q3 in the list, en RTCW would probally be a lot better replacement for Q3 then ut2k3.

-X-Mister: I couldnt´t agree more.

First CPL take out Q3 as a game for there tourneys and I must admit how exciting was the CPL Oslo tourney compared to lets say FragFest 4 ??

And i´m not surprised WCG dissed Q3 this year either.. I mean comon people Q3 is almost stone dead.

What bothers me tho is that we haven´t got a new game to cover for Q3 now when its dying.. If we had Q4 or maybe doom3 we wouldnt care so much..

It's amazing how stupid (or at least blind) one person can be....

But hey, talk on, it only matters THAT you say something and not WHAT....


// Sec

WCG without Q3 isnt real WCG ! plz tell me why q3 isnt on the list ? =[

Why ? coz ut2003 needs a real promotion campaign ,coz Q3 is too old , coz its all money dude :/ sad but true ...

LOL! Ok... Starcraft aint old! ITS BRAND NEW! RUN AND BUY YOUR COPY NOW!!

for 0.99cents

So maybe let's make a petition or something? Q3 must be present at the WCG! There are much more quakers than fifa or Age Of Mythology players!
And our level, our knowledge about the game and our skills are now really huge, after those 4 years of playing.
Besides there is nothing more entertaining than a q3 duel!

/shr.pl

There are as many people playing AoM right now as there are Quake.

Don't know about Fifa though, except it's one of the biggest selling titles each year. It doesn't really work online very well, but still :]

Korea = Fifa

well, so much for duelling..

having ut2k3 is fine, makes sense..
but why take out q3?
PPL <3 Q3 damnit!!!
I think they should take out Age of Mythology..or FIFA
pretty plz? :/

AOM and FIFA are games that the korean people play extensively. I'm not suprised that warcraft 3 was added either. As for quake 3. It's so dead just goto quakecon if you want it ;). UT2k3 eh its new. That's probably the only reason it got chosen.

you should have visited #eso.tourney the last weekend, you'd have seen how "dead" q3 is

sorry, i meant to say "dead in korea" and i listened to the TsN shoutcast of those matches...

Fox... you have had the last 3-4 years duelling in q3 tourneys... wake up.. its year 2003 and Q3 is no longer what the mainstream want to look at.(thank god!)
Ut2k3 for the peps!

Err, q3 is still intresting for many people, also, The countries who are sending players to WCG in korea decide which game will be there in Korea, If everyone said, Q3! then the chance was pretty big that q3 would be picked, and It was, Dutch WCG told me two weeks ago that the chance of q3 in WCG is big, they wanted ut2k3 and WCG Russia, plus couple of small coutries, wanted q3 too. Especially countries who cannot afford good gaming systems to play ut2k3 on.
I would love to see q3 another season, and I dont play it anymore because it boring.. But to watch q3, I still like it really much. Without q3, prolly no wheat, he one of the greatest gaming casters in the world, no doubts about that..
CPL is for the most of CS'ers still n #1 pro-gaming event and not the WCG.

No Wheat No fun :(

its funny how some q3 players think that: Q3 Community = The Whole World. But let me breif you into the year 2003, you are only 0.1% of the online gaming scene today.

i have seen some stats that q3 is still the second most played game afters cs

these stats were obviously nonsense

ps: i'm a quake player

lol, have you seen the stats on Clanbase for example, Quake3 TDM was the third most biggest mode, and Clanbase is big.

Clanbase is EU only (almost)... wake up this is the WorldCyberGames... not the ClanbaseCyberGames or Q3CyberGames.

ohh well, if its the World Cyber Games, why did they choose UT2003 instead of Q3 then. I cant imagin UT2003 being any bigger in Asia/korea then it is in EU, compared to Quake 3.

atm its looking more like KoreanCyberGames :)

Dreg...

That was the first thought that went through my head this morning. I couldn't agree with you more.

djWHEAT

sad, but true :/

You are missing my point dude, My point is not about Europe or about Clanbase or whatever, the point is that Q3 is still really big in EU, clanbase as example... Not to compare the diffrents between CB and WCG...

so are the ut2003 community.. and the others too.. cs is 85%.. war3 is growing strong fast tho..
and ut2003 may be fun to play in a hardcore level.. but watching it is so goddamn boring... im not supprised that quake3 isnt in.. i kinda understand it even tho i wanted it in.. my english really do suck..bla bla :p

fifa...is this an asian thing?

why is counterstrike still going strong then?
If it's a good game, who cares if it's old
A lot of ppl still love and play it, and it is entertaining to watch as well
q3 + ut2k3 would be good ones imo for WCG 03

All Counterstrike Players already say that the game is boring.
but its the competitiveness of the game that makes it fun.

you know all counter-strike players? that's interesting.

maybe cs is just a simple game for beginners? :)

no!!!!!!!!!!! hwere are quake 3 ?? ehhh lame quake rox
i wont the q3 !! :P this wcg sucks!

great spelling!

i'm an UT2k3 players, i'm happy for ut2k3 community cos it's in the gamelist, but i also think Quake3 should be in!

Q3 is NOT ! dead

just look at clanbase, where even only the tdm-teams are much more compared to the ut2k3 signups... and there's no discussion, ut2k3 sucks because it's a fucking bad game... do not understand people playing it... ut1 was much better...

what about q3? you must forget about it? quake 3 is the best game for WCG

WTF ????????????????????????????????????????????

No quake 3? this WCG is gonna suck BIGTIME

Quake 3 = 5000 servers
UT2003 = 1100 servers

you can easily see by these numbers that Quake 3 is dead

(oh if you don't get it I am being sarcastic)

Those number say absolutly nothing. For all we know 4999 of those q3 servers can be empty and all the ut2k3 servers can be full. It's not really weird that there are alot of q3 servers considering it's been out for over 3 years.

And esreality is a very q3 oriented website, so it's not really suprising that a lot of people don't agree with it not being at wcg.

"For all we know 4999 of those q3 servers can be empty"

hahha... well just think about it whats the point of having a server if nobody plays on it..

i was pointing out the fact that if a game is dead, there wouldnt be 5000 servers for it

If you look at the gamespy stats you see that ut2k3 has more players and servers then q3 in the morning. In the evening q3 has more players and servers. If you dont count urban terror. Then ut2k3 for sure has the most servers and players.

if u dont count urban terror? jackass

q3 is q3 and all mods that come with it, not too many people just play baseq3, at least not competitively, if so then how could u count osp?

"..the ut2k3 servers can be full"

R
O
F
L

Not to mention that these statistics vary upon which time of day you look at the stats.

For example at 11:26AM PST on February 14th the stats are:

Quake3: 3114 servers, 4965 players
UT2003: 2332 servers, 4684 players

I wouldn't say Q3 is 'dead', but from a continuity and progress aspect for the WCG it would make alot of sense to use the newest FPS game, especially when the communities are so close in size anyway (the first UT also outsold Q3 by a very large margin).

UT2k3 is actually a pretty good game once you get over the "it doesn't feel like Q3" point of view. I still think Q3 has better spectator appeal, but the odds of them *adding* Q3 are slim, especially given there are 2 FPS games already (CS and UT2k3).

How many of the q3 players are bots though? I never trust a q3 poll unless they break it down with players and bots. Usually can skim off about 25% of the q3 player total. Not sure what the ratio would be for UT.

The event will expand its focus to provide gamers with an enjoyable experience as well as the general public with great “fun to watch” spectator facilities and events.

Yeah... as if, no q3, no fun :>

Woot, they'll have gel fights!

some high profile ppl here should really make a pertition to keep q3 for WCG 2003..

Last time with Wheat shoutcasting was a blast!

When don't take into consideration their own polls, why would they even bother reading an online petition?

Online petitions are just official whiners lists.

I'm really disgusted by the comments here, when I started reading them i saw a lot of ut2k3 players agree'ing that both ut2k3 and q3 should be in the gamelist. When _one_ player agrees with WCG (yes, that happend to be a ut2k3 player, but only _one_), who is free to have his opinions, _every_ damn q3 player goes flaming ut2k3...

What can I say? GG jerks!

(If you didn't understand that, you should try reading all the comments with ut2k3 players agree'ing with you, insted of only reading the one negative comment about your silly game)

And now you are making the same mistake? because i dont see EVERY q3 player flaming.
What i do see is that we have some ut2k3 players saying that its exciting and fun to watch q3 even they might not play it. Unfortunetly it dosent seem to work other way around, and that should tell something about spectator frendlines of these 2 games at this moment. I personally have no problem for ut2k3 being there, but its sad that the best game for SPECTATORS is dropped.

Ofcourse I make the same mistake, it was a burst of anger, I really don't see why they have to flame ut2k3 and saying it's dead..

And I just had to get it off my back that they didn't have to flame ut2k3 because of one players opinion (he is free to have that opinion by the way, if it didn't struck yer mind).

And if you think for just one second, my rant was pointed to those who flamed ut2k3, and noone else, thank you very much.

_every_ damn q3 player goes flaming ut2k3...


and you don't wonder why?

If you read my comment two comments below that one, you would see that I explained it. It was a burst of anger, and you know why? Well, i guess you do.

And I, for one, don't believe in edit'ing posts when it comes to "not grammar" stuff, since it will just confuse more people than it will help the "mad ones".

If you have a hard time reading what I say, you can always i-msg me, and I'll give you the number on a english teacher. :/

(I'm not saying my english is perfect, since it isn't my primary language, so don't come with any stupid comments on how my grammar sucks, thank you very much.)

actually q3 and ut2003 are not such big games like starcraft or counterstrike

but i do wonder who puts warcraft3 in a tournament game list
it is proven that more then 50% of the game is luck only
some people even call that game RTL (Real Time Luck -instead of strategy)

It is still played alot :)

I want quake 3 arena !!

I thought alot about this before I finally posted a comment.

My first reply needs to goto X-Mister. You made the comment, "its funny how some q3 players think that: Q3 Community = The Whole World. But let me breif you into the year 2003, you are only 0.1% of the online gaming scene today."

I don't think that Q3 Players believe the Community is the entire world. I think what the Q3 Players know is that Q3 is the only game that can offer the best possible spectator situation whether you be at home or at the event in Korea. How many other games played in the WCG can have a live game relay? How many other games can have a live game relay that can sync with Live commentary? How many other games can combine the audio and the commentary into a little file for people who missed the live event to experience it the same way? Last year, if you weren't following Quake 3, and you weren't at the event... I'm sorry... but you didn't know what the fuck was going on.

Hell, I was there, and I could barely get results on the other tournaments. But when it came to Quake 3, the people at home were watching the matches live, listening to the live stream, they were "virtually there".

The point is, Q3 offers up something that no other game can offer up. By taking out a game which carries the maximum spectator friendliness... you are basically detatching yourself from the rest of the world for NON-LIVE coverage.

What's more fun? Refreshing a webpage to find out the latest Starcraft or Warcraft 3 score? Or watching it live with commentary? I just don't see this as a hard decision.

Maybe this is just a critique of games in general. But I honestly don't believe that WCG can have the same kind of success with out a game that has, historically, proved to be the most successful and prestiegious game (in terms of cash prizes, press, skill, etc) at tournaments.

I'm very upset. For so many reasons it's difficult to list them all here. I wanted to see what happened in 2003 after the changing of the title (US -> RUS), it's pretty much the last major Q3 tournament before a new ID game takes the spotlight, there are so many "NEW" players which could only elevate the level of competition... the reasons go on and on.

Today is one of those days... that I'll probably not forget about for a long time. Call me sappy or anything else you want... but this hits hard.

djWHEAT

I totally agree..the Quake community is a very tight nit but also has the capability to entertain people who don't really play the game all around the world with various styles to lview and listen to. It does hit hard.

well, i gotta say i have to agree with u about the spectating etc. I mean, when watching a q3 duel with shoutcast LIVE, is so fun :), don't see any other game having that kinda quality.
i'd also like to thank the ut2k3 players' support, and its not the 1st time i've heard that q3 is more fun to watch than ut/ut2k3 from a ut player.
i kinda expected wc3 to b in there this year, and bw as well and CS. I thought ut2k3 would replace ut1, and it did, latest "Age Of ********" to take over the previous one, and fifa... well no offence to the fifa players, but it was a bit of a joke, that some1 can win by pressing ESC all the time and not get disqualified, which to me shows that the game is just not solid enough, who knows mayb the newer 1 has something similar. I'm not sure how it would all add up, but i really didn't expect q3 to get dropped.

just kinda strange, a blow to the head, or somit:)

and dreg, I was so looking forward to kicking your ass at WCG UK2003 =P

I don't see this as a UT2003 vs Q3 thing at all. UT2003 replaced UT and WC3 replaced Q3. The end result is we have one FPS less and one RTS more. And as a FPS fan I am not happy about it.

As a UT2003 player I see no reason to gloat about the fact that they dropped Q3. It is just a reminder that the same will happen to my game somewhere along the road. UT203 players acting like they won something here are missing the big picture I am afraid.

There will be a UTV mod out soon, so UT2003 should offer every bit as much spectator opportunities as Q3 and I hope TsN will still be going to WCG. I enjoy that kind of stuff no matter what game it is. I haven't played TFC in ages, but still enjoyed the TFC commentator at the CPL for example and I still tuned in to listen to you/Trillian/red barchetta/methos during ESo despite not being able to watch GTV.

Great post.

it's true what u say about q3 beeing the most spectator friendly for games online.. i guess that is what's keeping it alive nowdays... but WCG itself prolly dont care about the online covrage THAT much.. as sujoy said.. Television is MUUUCH more worth than some online spectators.. i am not against u or anything, im as sad as u quake3 isnt in =/

Come on people, why is WCG so important to you? If you are really so much into Q3 then you could not care less about some commercial organization. Just play the game that you like most, organize the kind of competition you want (like recently with that eso thingy) and dont blind yourself with the prospect of "money/fame" that organizations like WCG or CPL provide.
I play Quakeworld and i think it is far superior to any other fps out there. Our community survived to this day without big events like WCG and CPL. Yours can do it as well if you really love your game.
No computer/video game will last forever in the "mainstream". In 2-3 years it will be the people loving CS or UT2003 who whine about their favourite game not being in the big competitions anymore. Then you can lean back and laugh at their crap games finally being "dead" :-)
Bottom line: It is you the players that make a game live not WCG/CPL/whatever.

/Apollyon

The events like this give something extra to a game, it is something as taking part in the olympics for example, you can do without it for sure, but it is just the extra element which could motivate you to practice so you might be able to attend.

and what about all the would be amazing demos/live games.

No Q3.. eh wtf? Hmmm .. bribe? ;/

Age of Mythology but not Quake 3? lol

I'm really dissapointed that it won't be q3 in WCG. I understand... CS, Starcraft; but tell me WHY there will be Age of Mythology and Fifa; QuakeWorld and Quake2 is more famous that this 2 "pro-games". I don't think that the reason is "q3 is old", cause SC is much elder and it'll be played. I try to have hope that they'll change it.

put all ur hope in sujoy, and make him have more to lose if he doesn't get q3 in ;)))

As posted before: Korea <<

=(

WTH. thats fucking retarded. Q3 was the best game going for WCG, and they axe it. absolute morons.. have fun watching lame demos from the lame quake wannabe & goddamn ea sports ffs.

Promode should be the WCG's FPS game now, instead of vanilla Quake3. It's even more exciting to spectators and the code is much more advanced than OSP. It's a new game with all new physics and tweaks to enhance the gameplay. Lots of duelers around the world agree that it's far more challenging to play. Since the game is so new to a lot of people, it's not the same thing over and over again.

Promode is what vQ3 should have been out of the box.

(my opinion)

agreed.. cpm is at least a generation ahead of anything in terms of gameplay. ut & ut2k3? .. LOL. sweet fucking jesus what is the world coming to.

"the code is much more advanced than OSP"

huh? how?
arqon and rhea share most of the code afaik
also, i find cpm's additions (like the movement) to be quite entertaining, but serious 1on1's in this mod are far too hectic imo
vq3/osp serves way better as a serious competition game

If you just look up the date of the last OSP release, or if you just look at all the features CPMA has over OSP's (like MVD, improved netcode,... for example) you should be able to answer your question :)

exactly what i wrote 10 times or so ;)

i'd also like to know how much epic or whoever the hell made that piece of crap game paid WCG to include it. surely it didn't get in on gameplay alone, nobody is that retarded.

at least hope they will play it with ttm. that's ok, without ttm it's indeed just crap

Dissing all other games is not worth it, I think UT2k3, AoM and WarCraft III are good new additions.

But the thing I can't understand is why they are planning on putting 2 console games in and then remove Q3...

Are they nuts? Seriously, what kind of competitive
community does console gaming have compared to Q3.
Name one famous console player?
Name any Quake player most non-quake players can name:

Thresh
fatal1ty
ZeRo4
LakermaN
proZaC

and so on...

WCG isn't gonna be what it uesed to be...

Your points proves alot of what people have been saying. The console competition caters more towards the Korean Gaming style. Just seems like Korea continues to add games they feel they will dominate. I hate to be the one who says that, but it's evident from the list that little "world" feedback was taken into concideration when choosing these games. Seriously tho, if SSX Tricky or Dead or Alive 3 make the console games list. WCG credibility will be crushed.

Now I wish the WCG would have been in AU or US. Holding it in Korea has only prompted them to make a bigger push towards non-FPS style games.

djWHEAT

I don't really agree, Koreans historically don't like consoles.

It's telling that the console they are using is not Japanese. I think they are using consoles after looking at the other countries, where this form is bigger than PCs. Korea is the only major country to have a larger PC gaming market than a console one...

Daishi,

I do agree with you on some points. Consoles are not as predominant in Korea as they are in other countries, however, they are more apt to be successful at a console series than they are at a FPS. However, the Korean player who won FIFA last year played it on a PC with a PS2 Joypad. I don't see much difference between that and a console based game. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I have a feeling maybe HALO will be picked as a console game... but let's get realistic... HALO is about as deep as Serious Sam when it comes to FPS competition.

djWHEAT

I think that's just that the Koreans like Fifa online, not that they like consoles.

A large part of the reason for the success of online gaming in Korea is due to the fact there is a historical mistrust of the Japanese (and thus their consoles).

Whilst the console market dwarves the PC one by a factor of ten in most countries (e.g, the UK).

I'd much rather see Quake 3 than Halo or whatever, but I can see the reasoning behind using some X-Box games.

In my country there is a lot of ppl that play consoles, but when they see a duel match in Quake 3 they are like "ohhh!", thats why people here are changing from consoles to PC games for the exciting part to be famous.

Ahh but they know Fat btw and no1 knows a famous console gamer.

Pro Fifa gaming.. lol ;)

next year they will replace UT2003 with Championship Manager

q3

Btw, a lot of people is saying that Q3 is old and that we should move on, but explain this:

Why, if age is so important didn't we see this?
StarCraft -> WarCraft III
Counter-Strike -> Battlefield 1942

Quake might be old, but it is still younger than both above and has a big community (not world-wide for you word pickers)...

Gaaaahhhh

I've written a post at the WCG forums...
Hopefully the organizers read those...

So my suggestion is:

RALLY UP FOLKS, JOIN THE WCG FORUMS AND TELL THEM YOUR OPINION...

P.S And djWheat, you seemed to have a good relation with the organizers last year, can't you try to pull some strings? We need heavy opinions like you and Sujoy...

When the CPL dropped Q3 as a competitive platform there was a clear cut reason behind it (their problems with idsoftware). "It was business" is what we, the gamers - the bread and butter of the cpl, were told. Judging first hand, it left and incredibly sour taste in my mouth. Partially because I had only attended one CPL event (Babbages) and was very impressed and enthralled by the gaming scene and the community and it was very painfull to see that something so lucrative and attractive to the q3 community was just taken away from it. Especially considering the fact that we, q3'ers, had no alternative.

Many people deemed q3 standing on its last leg; many have claimed it wouldn't live more than another 6 months. This was 2 years ago. The fact and the matter is, the q3 community is very very very much alive. To quote dx: "Quake 3 has never been played at a higher skill level than it is today and yet we still see the players improving, getting better." We take the time and effort to get good, to get closer to the level of the pros like zero4 and fatality, and it pays off! I for instance have been paying out of my own pocket to attend various q3 events nationwide since Babbages CPL. I payed for my trip to qcon2001; wcg.us 2001; qcon2k3; wcg.us 2002; and am now going to Boston for IGL Winter event that will feature Q3 - just because i miss the comraderie (spelling?). By being this dedicated I try to send a message out there that I believe in this thing called pro-gaming and that i do support the community that I play in. There is a certain feeling of "love and hate" in this community that is abscent in all other gaming scenes. This feeling stems from the highest level of competition and dedication that we q3'ers posses!

Emergence of WCG was the best thing since bread and butter as far as eSport is concerned. It's fun, it's worth it, and it makes you STRIVE for something. Quake 3 has been putting up solid numbers since it was included in WCG, and in some countries it is the only reason eSports is even a word (Russia). Why get rid of it? What is the reason behind its' abscence? I ask this not only for people like me who have rigorous schedules and do take time and effort to include structured practice time for the hobby they enjoy, but also for the average spectator who likes to come home from a hard day at work and relax in front of his computer watching a demo or two of the highest possible eSports competition out there.

I am very bitter and dissapointed with WCG for making a move in this direction (unless there is a valid reason), because one of my goals this year was to travel to Korea and represent the country I love. I guess that won't happen with Quake 3. Until then, I'll still be paying out of my pocket to travel in the US and support Quake 3 as much as I can. Last but not least, CPL may try to kill Q3, WCG may try to kill Q3 but as long as there is a WILL there is a way. We still have QuakeCon (and I have lots of hopes now that citizen is at its' helm) and we now have IGL - the potential new king of eSports!

Long live Quake 3!

--dkphenom

I suggest some prominent individuals in the q3 gaming community (sujoy, wheat) who have alot of pull power draft up a petition to be sent to ICM or whoever is in charge of the organization and clearly present the pro's and con's of this drastic move.

I am sure the commitee that will recieve the petition will be overwhelmed and would have to include q3.

bummer

http://www.worldcybergames.com/forum/forum.asp

please, share your opinion there
there is already a thread started in the "WCG friends' opinion room"
i dont want to sound super-clever, most of you guys would do that anyways, but please, if you do post something there, stay serious, dont use curse words.. if we want to reach something, we dont want to sound like maniacs, dont we?

Big mistake :(
(letting q3 out)

well q3 guys, get used to it. There will be games dropping and new games coming every new worldcybergames. Q3 is just the weakest link this time. (At least they think it is). Maybe they can be convinced of putting q3 back in but then what. I really dont think they will do 9 games then, since there are only 13 or 15 tickets for each country. It should replace another game then. ut2k3 is too new, starcraft too popular (in Korea), aom too popular (in china, taiwan, japan), wc3 too popular everywhere, fifa too popular everywhere and cs also too popular.

And ut2k3 is imo an awesome game, and with the latest patches alot of usefull things are fixed (perfect working spec mode, low demo size) and they are working right now on ut2k3tv.

People saying q3 ownz and is everything we need, and ut2k3 sucks, are simply ignorant.

Thumbs up, totally agree.

Why drop a game if there is no good replacement?

because its old and there are better games ?

wheres this better game, i can't see one...

ofcourse not, since your a quaker I guess. You want quake and nothing else

don't get me wrong, i want UT2003 in, I think it should have the chance to be a 'pro' gamers game, but taking Quake 3 out for some console games is just totally stupid

its not taken out for some console games. Just like last year there are 6 PC games. And the console market is huge. But almost no competition yet.

same goes for CS / SC and they are in

look my post above about popularity..

It's a conspiracy by Epic and ICM. :-/

/me cries for Q3.

thats such BS not having q3 :| the WGC was quite a big q3 event in the past, damn them all =\

Fifa should be taken out:P

games get old and after a couple of years in competition they should be replaced imo-
a good game list would be something like this imo

starcraft replaced by wc3
cs replaced by bf1942
ut replaced by ut2k3
since no good replacement for q3 is out yet having it replaced by cpm might make it feel a bit more fresh, or at least adding some new maps, watching ztn dm6 and t4 being played over and over again isnt very exciting to me anymore.

i just will ignore the event within q3..;(( plZzz, give it back!

for us swedes it's not a big thing anyway. last wcg we were represented in one game and with a team that, i'm sorry to say, did as they were predicted by many however not by myself

If Q3 isnt in... WCG Will die soon :/

I agree with everything Djwheat said, and given the circumstances I won't really be paying any attention to the event this year.

The only good thing I can see coming out of this is that some hardcore OSP q3 players might decide to pick up promode now that they don't have the WCG to train for.

-sephy

vely intelesting, hopefully there will be some sort of cpma tourney at QuakeCon even if its not got big prizes. What would be kinda neat if the majority in the QuakeCon Q3 tourney prefered cpma :D

https://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=325599

I remember reading from somewhere that WCG'04 could be held in Russia. So i guess russians have somekinda influence in WCG organisation, just hope that the guys pulling the strings in Russia wanna see q3 played now and then.

ICM accompanied the announcement by stating that, “This year’s WCG as opposed to last year’s will expand the previous focus that was on the games and the tournament itself to increase the enjoyment and fun for all the world’s gamers as well as spectating public and thus continue to develop the event’s position as a comprehensive game entertainment and cultural festival.”

ICM continued on by saying that, “The WCG 2003 will take steps in advancing toward being a truly global game festival where the world can become one via e-sports, and will thus move toward achieving the original vision of the World Cyber Games to lead the development of the digital entertainment culture into the future.”

What an absolute sham. This is no festival of games, it's as unashamedly commercial as the CPL.

I don't really agree with you.

Have we seen people banned from the leagues for criticising those who run it? The man in charge sending mails around with bad press from rival organisations to their sponsors?

Just because they didn't pick Quake 3 doesn't mean they're unashamedly corporate.

There were some more than dubious decisions taken during the course of the WCG, to benefit the Korean players if I recall correctly. In which game did the mysterious lag and power-outage incidents repeatedly occur when a Korean player was involved? Granted, the WCG isn't (yet) on a par with the CPL in terms of Munoz's connivance but I will dig up the ESR thread discussing the goings-on in a certain event later. For me it provided a small insight into the true nature of the Games.

The line-up of games now strongly reflects a Korean-oriented tournament now too. It's nearer a Korean RTS convention than a World Gaming Olympiad. Dropping the game which embodies their principles of spectator friendly, multi-cultural competition more than any other smacks of corporate pragmatism. If they were true to their principles, the number of games should have been expanded to greater reflect world 'cyber-culture' (groan) rather than making it essentially more esoteric.

Well, I'm sure they want to appeal to their TV audience.

AoM isn't exactly massive in Korea either. And I put quite a few of the incidents down to dodgy players, but dodgy players who could speak Korean. It makes a big difference to be able to argue your case properly, particularly as the Koreans really aren't as used to people cheating as us I think. I guess it's some respect thing.

c58*slk was banned from wcg for criticism

Yeh, but by the Brazilian organisers rather than ICM, wasn't it?

ok, looks like we can screw WCG and hope some russians go to QuakeCon.

Isn't there any interest to organize a new tourney in EU/RUS/USA which includes Q3 (and other games :P), a sort of CPL/WCG-tournament but better and bigger? :)

Lan Arena maybe? Or PG Challenge in Prague (close enough to me =P).

thats what I was thinking, a sort of esreality LAN competition, dunno how it could work but maybe we could get together and talk about it =P

Yeah, Sujoy has got some expience with WCG uk and if he does it in Holland I'm willing to admin :P

I don't think finding admins are a problem. Finding sponsors is.

I think it's a matter of money... It's a fulltime job looking for sponsorship, and that's no guarantee of success.

No q3 , absolute disgrace.
Down with wcg.

Quake3 is the Koreans worst game. It all make sense :o :/

WCG 2003 sukcs in this year, no Quake ]I[ Arena ? i don't understand this :/ Korea country of pro-gaming yup ofcors :/ but i believe is still hope... and Q3 be in WCG 2003 !!!

No q3...man this sux

that's pretty gay how there's no q3, the past wcg's were all q3, but i bet i know why there's no q3; because no koreans were any good at it

they just rigged it for koreans to get more medals

It isn't medals, I think there's something more deeper than that, $$$$$ of publishing new games or something more!?!?

more medals = more money.......

NO Q3 SUCKS!!!

WCG I HATE YOU!!!!

----------------------
[X]ReaLpAp

Honestly speaking... qualifying for the WCG finals in Korea has been my goal in life since WCG 2001. Obviously I didn't quite qualify... but still... I'm really disappointed that Q3 isn't on the list.

I wouldn't give a shit if I lived in the US or at least some place that had a Q3 community that had lots of activity; online leagues, large tournaments (QuakeCon or whatnot)... Problem is I'm living in a place where internet connectivity is expensive and slow... not to mention the fact that the Q3 community here is really small; everyone knows each other.

You can be sure I'm going to make all the noise I can trying to get Q3 back on the list, but I doubt anything is going to happen...

Quake forever...

It's a huge shame... Man, WHEAT is right - it's a hard hit. If Sujoy will success in his argue with Koreans then, damn, we all will owe him a huge beer! GL man.

If only the organisers would read this thread and see how the community is shocked...

I'm even ready to bye with my polish mates some polish good vodka and pay for sending it to England to Sujoy :)

yeah krypton i'm with you :]

hope that not only you ;)

my world are so obligate

where is q3!! =[[[[[[[[[[[ i think starcraft, cs, and q3a can be always in da wcg - most popular/effective gamez da.. ;\

/log out from wcg

No Q3?????? omG!

wp WCG..... u suck

wheres my gd rtcw and quake3.

Gaming has been betrayed by WCG now. Q3 is mythical, they seem to forget it. Q3 musnt die. You can do more sophisticated games, but not as explosive and spectacular as Q3. Q3 is an alive legend.

-----> F-U-C-K-I-N-G M-O-N-E-Y <-------
sad but true...

to sad (quake3) =(

the results of wcg poll WILL be modified even if Q3 did good because they wouldnt want to piss people off (more than they already have by taking it out)

no q3 :(

i personally think they are just trying to snub games of ID..

quake 3 and return to castle wolfenstien.. which has been the no 1 games and have strong communities with em are out prolly cuz companies payed WCG or something.. cuz if its gaming on a LAN or online quake 3 is the only game that everyone knows about and loves to play..

This discussion seems familiar, have I read this before?

I'm looking forward to the discussion that doom3 is a skilless game for noobs and that quake3 is so much better. Should be fun.

If given this situation a lot of thought, and the only reason I can see is that iD didn't like WCG to use their game. i remember that Angel Munoz said something about CPL not beeing allowed to use it because of iD.

But I sure hope I'm wrong on this one, and I think it's 30 - 70 in favour of me beeing wrong...

If I'm wrong, then the Korean organizers have had too much soju...

btw: is cpl working on frag5? Was frag4 tdm the last of frag series?

But look at it from the organizasion sight. Sponsors give only money to spread theyre companys logo world-wide. If they would put q3 instead of w3, in Korea less people would be interested in watching it.

WCG has always similar prizes in every games. So the popularity of every game has to be similar to each other.

For us it would be better to have wcg with 100 000$ in cash prizes and with q3, than 400 000$ without it.

shame really.

as much as UT had UTV, and hopefully ut2003 will have UTV i would rather watch a live game of a q3 duel.

only thing it needs really is a few new maps to be included.
as zulg said, dm6 / pt4 / ztn gets a bit boring all the time

I have created a petition at petitiononline:

Here is the adress:

http://www.petitiononline.com/q3inWCG/petition.html

If you want to make a difference, please sign it...

i don't think it can help but ill sign it

Good job... at least we're trying something. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't change anything at all... but what the heck.

GO SIGN!! I COMMAND YOU!
The only game South Africa is any good at is Quake 3 :P

So true =)

Naaa, you've got a semi-good CS team too, Bravado or something...

What WCG promotes is the concept of gaming as a potential spectator-sport. Quake might not be the most popular game, but it certainly still carries a name recognition that is hard to beat. People still talk about "Doom". My parents think I play Doom. id software's games aren't going away, and it's because they are incredible. They go way above and beyond just providing a product for the masses to consume, they capture the imagination in unusual ways, they create beautiful environments with vast arrays of configurable options, they layer on gameplay variables (world physics, graphics, gun types that go beyond hitscan) that make the game seem real and leave addicts raving about how great the game "feels" and ultimately how fun it is to play. Their games drive people like you and me to become competitive gamers.

Now, you can talk all you want about statistics, but the fact remains; for a competitive community of gamers, you will be hard pressed to find one bigger, more active, and more dedicated to quality coverage than the Quake community.

"for a competitive community of gamers, you will be hard pressed to find one bigger, more active, and more dedicated to quality coverage than the Quake community. "

obviously you are not familar with Warcraft 3, where top replays on popular websites such as replayers.com get downloaded way into the thousands and shoutcasts of tournmanet games get consistantly filled (that's about 500-600 slots)

Jesus, the whole gaming community isn't Quake, ya know

Hi and welcome to esreality? Where gaming meets reality? Check if22 vs gopher there champ.. 1250 dl's of a 3 day old demo. Good game.

its hard to spectate wc3 live, unless u live in korea, and have a TV :D

but even thats most likely not live :S

yay, my two favourite games WC3 and UT2k3 are in! wooo!

If u wanna know why Q3 is is not in, its because NOBODY plays in it Korea, the home market. That's all the organisers care about. I mean, how many people do u think voted for FIFA outside of Korea? Not many i can safely assume. But the koreans LOVE it, and that's why its in.

no quake3 ? is this wcg being held in north korea or what ?

age of mythology + fifa + ut and no q3 lol

I'd be inclined to say it's a good move. RTS can be fascinating to watch/listen to, and team games again have the tactical side.

There's 1on1 for the brute force action, but I've come to the conclusion that you can have good 1on1 in many different games without too much change in the action.

Omg, So sick of you Q3-fanboys who have to put down other games and think that their game is the most skillful/tactical/...
Not to mentions those fools that are asking Angel on shackes to use Q3 for the next CPL, lol

Its just WCG and its just plain old boring vq3, a game that hasn't changed that much last year that has reached his maximum potential already. Nothing more boring to watch

Not to mention these ppl claiming that Q3 is dead because there isn't a WCG, or hoping that Q4 or Doom3 will be released soon, so pathetic :p

rofl. so play what then ?

Looks good. I'm looking forward to seeing this event take place. I'm quite glad that the scene is switching to the RTS games. They never recieve enough recognition for their quality.

"Few eSports communities have a fanbase that so cloesly follows the competitions around the world"

If we want them to listen to us, maybe we should write our message properly.

nobody has mentioned C&C generals??
I thought it would be in. Maybe the game was released to late.

wcg sucks for this! BOYCOTT!!

So boring to read this, people shouting that Quake 3 is bigger than UT2k3 and owns all other games worldwide. In fact most of you don't know nothing about other communities.

And the thing which really makes you all look like fools is that you are dissing other games.

Wow that makes you look like GAMERS. please buh bye go away. Fifa is a great game, loved by many people, gamers, lovers of computer games JUST LIKE YOU. Dissing other games and crying that your beloved quake is the best.. well hahahah you really think you will be taken seriously.

Stop crying, take it like a man.. and saying that WCG sux because of no Quake, in fact you are saying... we love WCG so much and we are so sad it is out. Well welcome to the real world sugarkids.

Maybe do some search on google to Fifa or Aom or WC3, check out www.mrfixonline.com or www.planetageofmythology.com

How many international fan sites are there for quake, it doesnt differ much.

So stop whining, learn UT2k3 of WC3 and behave like a true gamer, not a spoiled child. Quake3 is history for WCG, for always. All your sad actions wont help.

I think the main problem is that sending both cs and rtcw teams would mean too many players.

I personally think that age of myothology game. They now have far too many rts style games. Surely just Starcraft and Warcraft 3 will be enough.

Quake 3, Fifa, CS, Warcraft 3 and Starcraft would be the best selection imo.

DAMN omg the cries for help still go out ^_^

for fuck sake -_-
AGAIN no RtCW goddamn!!! give RtCW SOME chance??????!
enough clans with sponsors etc..... man ._.

Where can I sign my country up to participate in this very big event?

There's no 'sign up' website form to put a country in the World Cyber Games. If you can run a tournament and fund the royalty fees as well as flights to the finals in South Korea, then you can put in a bid to the World Cyber Games Organising Committee to get the national organiser contract. I can give you a contact at the WCGOC if you like.

that would be very nice of you

didnt cpl say awhile back that the reason they werent using q3 was because they had to pay id software a royalty or something... becuz they saw cpl as a competitor to quakecon... ? maybe its the same situation with wcg... -.-;;

------

... btw consoles gamers own pc gamers in sheer numbers... i wouldnt be surprised if someone does a count and finds that there are more halo players (puke) than cs players (puke again)...

yer but how many of them are online?:)

Q3 should be used untill Q4 comes out just like UT1 was used untill UT2K3 came out .......

any1 any idea when Q4 comes out ? :>

I saw this vote thingy to get Q3 back in WCG... somebody got it?

its worth a shoot isn't it?

hehe sorry, never saw u allready posted it :>

I only Play ut and now more then ever ut2003 ,but i think q3 had to be there.
But like Moto- said i realy think they only put the most skillful/tactical/ games, wcg has its defends.

:(

all this talk about how Korea loves this game and the next, but this isn't Korea Cyber Games, it's World Cyber Games.
They should include quake3

I'm all for the bashing at the WCG for leaving q3 out this year but I think it only comes off as whiny and pathetic when you have to start bashing at the other games that were chosen over q3 like War3 and UT2k3. It's plain irritating. Instead of promoting a good image for the quakers, you only make them sound like a bunch of whiny sore losers.

"mommy look, they chose ut2 over q3 this year and ut sucks so bad compared to q3.. how could they! boo hoo."

Is this a some kind of joke with q3a? I think not very funny...