Where exacly he write that ?

https://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=862058#pid862058

Also you can check on CPL Forums

http://forums.thecpl.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...p=1#000005

Someone has already posted about this. I don't think it needs to be majored, it'll only get hopes up :\

" I apologize to id for the characterization "

he seems like a super annoying geek.

first sentence: "posted"
also, the quote is taken out of context a little bit.. what was that statement angel speaks of? more info pls :)

Sorry, my bad.

https://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=862058#pid862058

Also you can check on CPL Forums

http://forums.thecpl.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...p=1#000005

i get an 404 error... forum bug?

For us americans, a deal with id software and the CPL would be a great thing for revitalizing the U.S. Quake scene. Let's hope water can go under bridges and id can realize the potential of a dedicated gaming fan and promoter that Angel, in fact, really is. Looking through a rose colored lens, I see the CPL as an advertising engine for Quake 4, which from all first impressions at Qcon will BE the next 1v1 platform for competitive fps gaming. If id software realizes the potential the CPL possesses in helping market Raven's new game, then one can see a rosy future indeed for Quake. To keep Quake ALIVE and in the mind's eye of the world, as the defacto game for FPS multiplayer enjoyment, an agreement almost has to happen. We can only hope..
Just imagine a world in which the CPL, the WCG, the GGL, Clanbase, and all the companies waiting to surge into prominence in the competitive gaming arena come together and are allowed to license Quake 4 for a modest fee, just imagine how they will fare in a world that is on the verge of seeing the competitive FPS arena: in the afterglow of the Halo 2 for xbox craze, the Counterstrike Source craze; for what it really is. If the time has come for a truly incredible game to stake its claim in the history of gaming, as the game that sets the framework for a real worldwide FPS scene to emerge, with players from all walks of life participating.. then it must be now. The proliferation of broadband is nearly complete and the game that started it all stands to ring in a new epoch of competition and excitement the likes of which has NEVER been seen.
To paraphrase Tank from the Matrix..
God damn these are exciting times.

see ppl jumping on the band wagon again, u aint even played it properly if at all, and its not complete. how do u know if it will be good.

even if it sucks, it's better than painkiller :\

so true...

it would be fantastic news if it happens

quake has been away from the cpl for too long :)

if quake4 is a great game, it could be a major disaster if eswc and/or wcg can't use it coz of the cpl :\

CPL doesnt want to 'own' Quake 4, they saw a chance with painkiller because the community and following was so small. But do u honoustly think id will give CPL all the Q4 tournament rights. Not in a million years

Yeah, my guess is it would cost them far too much to have it exclusively anyway.

yup
id is a huge mark
pk creators were not

I guess that no company would let their game that has some potential to be secondary game at five major events in one year and no other. And we're talking about Quake4 here! And id Software! So I assume that the PK-like license considers only the primary game, which will be team based as we all know.

If ID sell their game to CPL how would they organize QuakeCon next year? ;)

RTCW 2

Wait for WolfCon ;)

no it won't.

ET for CPL WT :-)

you're not fazz

he listens to jazz, though

hehe at first i couldnt believe that angel said "What a great looking game and fast as hell!" in the cpl forums.
i hope this means an alredy signed contract, would be awesome

Angel has always said he prefered the Quake series over other games, as a player.

I wonder how much of a say Raven has on the matter. Apparently, they took some small part in making the game.

I should hope Raven are still working on q4 and refining it, rather than squabling over some shitty tour.

Id just threw Raven a bone, I can assure you id are in charge of all that stuff.

For sure. Id say jump, Raven says how high.

Why did they bother letting Raven make it at all then?

Because they were busy with d3 and id didn't want to wait 4 years after d3's release to release q4.

q4 is an id game.

No, it's not.

They did have a say in how it would be etc. though with Willits overseeing the whole thing.

More importantly id own the copyright and probably control who uses what. Raven were probably just paid for their work on the game, I doubt they have a lot of say over its use.

Raven did develop it, but it's well know that id and Willits oversaw the process and in doing so I'm sure they had a say in things to make sure it became something they wanted to call Quake 4.

yes it is... it is an id game developed by raven... hence the big id logo on the package...

oh my bad...it's an epic game then.

Isn't this a bit early for 'news' when it is hearsay and speculation of what the CPL *might* do for a game which very few people on this site have even played (including Angel)?

the more hype, the better... Muhuaha!

the ONLY thing that bothers me about the cpl picking up quake 4 is if it monopolizes it like it did with painkiller. i realize that its the perfect business solution for htem becuase it does eliminate competition, but at the same time it REALLY does hurt gaming. like if you look at football(soccer) globally there are dozens of professional leagues and dozens of professional clubs and it works becuase there's so much competition all the time and so many games and so much exposure people cannot get enough of it.

if gaming is to become a life style i sincerly believe Mr Munoz that if you monopolize the BIG games and hold them to the CPL only it will hurt the exposure and slow gaming's growth if not kill it eventually. but at the same time i have to point out that i hvae no experience in running something as large and global as the cpl, and its not really my place to tell you how to run a business if you even read this at all

if it monopolizes it like it did with painkiller.

In all fairness, the 'monopoly' was academic considering no one else actually wanted to use it.

from my understanding the ggl wanted to have an americup tournament for it. i'm not sure though...

That isn't true though, CS is played globally and there are regular tournaments.

But CS isn't the WT game, so it's not the same situation.

that is arguable.

i thoguth the same.. but they wouldnt let them do that
surely.. no chance.....

cpl isnt THAT important

allowing cpl to monoploize it would be a huge gift to the cpl...

but i think after how little people care about the WT, cpl wouldnt dare try to monopolise it.. they should just be glad if theyre able to hold tourneys for the game at all, to gain back some popularity

man i love speculation

and i'm not sure if the cpl is losing popularity really. mainly becuase the people who REALLY despised painkiller were the quake players and most of the quake players aren't too fond of the cpl anyway... but i suppose its speculation :)

i love speculation too. ^_^

theyre losing popularity when it comes to CS mind, and coupled with the pk thing its quite bad ;x

Yea I agree with that ID will never let any orginisation apart from their own monoplise the game. Doesn't make any business sense especially when they know how much onine gaming has grown.

They are not planning to monopolize the nest WT game though.

The CPL has no intent to monopolize the game.

Cool news! Thx!

or no possibility?

yay go angel \o/

You should get your branding on more boxes though; 'CPL Approved' etc ;)

Would be nice :)

ET for CPL, that would be nice. A teambased game with extra dimensions which are truly worth being competitive gaming. Something that only has been touched with RtCW, time to get it evolving imo.

ET my ass

ET: QW more likely.

EXCELLENT.

ET & Q4 for the world tour and watch all the CS players cry :)

would be pwn

hey now... :(

awesome :D

RtCW & Q4

I say fuck Angel and the cpl and long live eswc...if q4 ends up being the deathmatch game of choice then the cpl will get what it deserves.

ESWC cash prizes don't compare at all to CPL cash prizes. In the end it's all about the money. If I should choose between a $1,000,000 CPL tourney and a $50,000 ESWC tourney, I would be on my way to CPL without thinking twice.

when did the cpl have a 1mill 1game tourney?
never.

That is the total price pot for the World Tour.

The total amount for ESWC is $300,000 for ONE event, not 10 events spread throughout the year. The CPL money is spread thinly in comparison. I don't know if the CS prizes are paid out of the same 1mill prize pool either, so maybe somebody can shed some light on that.

think how many money vo0 has made on the world tour.... and he is only halfway and hasn't even reached the big final yet. ESWC is way behind.

The one million is just the total for the Painkiller tournaments, the stops add up to 500K and the finals are worth 500K I think. All the other games are additional and I believe it's usually the CPL's local partners who decide upon the other events.

Painkiller alone is $1,000,000.

All other tournaments are above and beyond. The total prizes we are giving out this year are $1,500,000.

Thanks for clarifying. Thx to flook and fubar for the same. Wow, one question, three prompt answers :)

I say fuck you.

Well fuck you too.

All ready so much hype around this game, it can only but dissapoint. (its Doom 3 all over). The game is going to please the SP, the MP, and the console players. Yeah, right and monkeys fly out of my ass.... This game will most likely not score a homerun in all departments.
Even if the game is good, there will not be much time to get rid of the bugs before the world tour. lets just wait and see.

C'mon, at least we like the game after having seen it in action. When I saw the first Doom 3 MP gameplay video, I almost puked. Anyway, this is Quake; not Doom. I love the entire Quake series, and I'm pretty sure I will like this one too.

exactly what i was thinking. it's all a doom3 deja vue.

The difference is we can actually see the game this time around. :)

there also was a HUGE hype around q3 by that time and it disappointet some old quakers, but in the end they all liked it...

q4 has just the d3 engine, it does not have to and will not feel like doom3 at all, the physics etc are totally different, its just the gfx

Whatever just throw that PK trash away.

oh I forgot to say QUAKe 4 RABBBLE RABBLE RABLLE!!!

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE QUAKE 4 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble

ALL RIGHT PEOPLE SETTLE DOWN

Those are EXCELLENT news.

All the pros will take part of it. fat, czm, coller, fox, vo0, even zero4. I'm sure even the UT players will play it. Imagine a game between czm and gitzzz or lauke for the finals. :O

you think they will still be on top? q4 is gonna bring a whole lot of new blood, prolly people who will also be able to dedicate more time than the current pros. a few may still be up there but I doubt you will see current pros on top in a year or so, but they'll have their time on top when we see the first few q4 tournies.

Nah. I think we'll see a few of the for years to come still. But new blood is good.

If the game will have a lot of money, we can be sure fatality will be there to stay :)

Still new players will need months/years to be able to cope with the level of experience the current players already have. It's for sure easier to close the gap and just copy instead of inventing something in gaming, but I think the older players are clearly a few steps ahead of the newbies :)

Sounds similar to the way it is in other sports wouldn't you say?

insane !

Worst news ever. Q4 should not be trusted by only 1 event.

Especially the CPL.

No need to argue.

If I deciphered your broken English right, RTFA

My asinine commentary has made me an e-celebrity! How ironic.

who are you ?

;)

everyone should be rejoicing about this news. more dm tournaments = more money. if the cpl does pick it up, i dont think they will have the exclusive rights to use it like in painkiller. but im confident that the cpl almost needs a proper 1v1 game, and dont want to make the same mistake they did by selecting pk. they know id/raven will more than likely be able to fix the bugs that the game brings forth, and i think its very safe to say many of the professional amateur and casual players from many games will switch to q4.

everyone should really stop the cpl sucks talk. they do know how to run their tournaments well, and most of the problems brought up on the world tour were because of the game, not because of them

tis true..

i could see the sak attack being quite good in q4. ;)

There was on mistake in selecting PK. They wanted a small game according to an audiointerview with Angel Munoz I heard a while ago. The only bad thing was that the developers didn't follow through like they promised they would. The CPL can hardly be blamed for that.

And aren't planning to monopolize the next WT game.

They wanted a small game according to an audiointerview with Angel Munoz I heard a while ago.

the funny thing is Angel said it after PK was a dissaster in their tournament. Why didn't he talk about it BEFORE the WT?

Actually I talked about it openly, but the first interview to carry it was conducted in May (after our second stop) and published in June at http://gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=371

Gamecloud - You took an unususal choice for the World Tour's main game in Painkiller. Why was this game chosen?

Angel Munoz - For a number of reasons:

1. We wanted a game that did not have an established community so that we can even the playing field and give everyone a shot at being the best.
2. Publisher DreamCatcher offered us a ground breaking exclusive worldwide license.
3. The game is very fast paced and offers some nail biting live spectator opportunities.
4. A game with a small following would allow us to learn the dynamics of managing a global venture like the World Tour without being forced to also manage huge number of participants.

oh, actually I didn't know about this. I guess that Carmac has a bad influence on me ;) cheers

tbh u were not really saying this before the wt started and even the inital document from scott valencia concerning the wt says different. this interview in may looked more like your answer tried to fit the actual situation caused by chosing pk as the wt game.

Those are actually very good reasons. Especially #1. Look at the success of Vo0, he would have never gotten this far if the game would have been say, UT2004.

Items 2. and 4. are contradictory, and 4. is obviously a post-hoc rationalization.

DreamCatcher did not agree to give the CPL an 'exclusive worldwide licence' AND fund additional development aimed solely at the multiplayer crowd unless they somehow believed that the end result would be more money in their pockets

Either the CPL
a) shared that belief and thought that the PK WT would attract a large number of players to the game (and thus to the WT events), or
b) the CPL misled DreamCatcher and tricked them into flushing money down the toilet.

If 4. is true, then b) is also true.

Anyone can distort any public statement to mean anything.

Brian Gladman (from DC) proposed PK to CPL, with a great number of promises, not the other way around. Therefore your speculation does not really apply to this specific situation - in spite of how logical it may sound.

In closing, if I or anyone at the CPL offended anyone for our use of Halo I sincerely apologize. In the end I think we've all learned a valuable lesson.

guess who said that?

Was that relating to the Halo community or the fact that the game was completely lacking in features that we take for granted for competition?

If the CPL is claiming that they were looking for a small community then are they also saying that they weren't interested in UT2004? I thought it was fairly common knowledge that they were until Epics publisher problems became an issue.

Speculating on that is futile. Look forward instead :)

It seems like we might have a really nice game for the next CPL World Tour if everything goes as it should.

How do you know it will be a great game? Thought you just quit writing dumb stuff

It seems like we might have a really nice game for the next CPL World Tour if everything goes as it should.

How do you know it will be a great game? Just cause its called Quake?

Yes

:) true.

id > cpl

I really hope this doesn't happen, even if they might be great tournaments. If there is one thing that a guaranteed world tour will do, its ruin whatever normal competition might have developed.

Why? Assuming CPL won't get an exclusive license again, then it will only help, no one is going to stop running tournaments just because there is the WT along side, CPL aren't the only CS tournaments around.

The only problem I see are the ESWC and CPL Summer dates are conflicting again in 2006 if I remember correctly?

I wasn't referring to LAN tournaments, I was referring to the actual community building online play.

As a league admin planning on opening the European Quake 4 section on ESL, why? :)

I wonder how the netcode is in Q4. In HL2DM I can easily play vs. player when I have 80 to 100 ping and they have 20 or 30 or so. In Q3 that's not even close to possible for me. But most likely Q4 will have a lot more players than HL2DM, so I won't have to search in so far-away countries to find opponents :)

Because it totally changes the attitudes of the players invovled. The players just plain don't care about the game, and in the end it shows when people are worrying about tournaments like the cpl eswc etc. instead of having fun.

Its just my opinion -- tournaments like this real early in a games life don't build communities, they make it so one can never get off the ground.

Heh, very good point that I should of seen earlier from this last year's experience :)

Still, a pro scene adds some interest, but as we've seen in PK, it won't make a game.

q4 will be the focus of a few cpl events and then it's gonna get trashed like q3 cause the cpl don't give a shit about the q3/q4 community...they care about $$$

Well anyhow, it would be nice to have a few cpl tournies but then I guess it's gonna be "license issues" time all over again and they're gonna switch to ut2k*..

Great, history repeats itself...long live qcon and eswc.

maybe in a few years the cpl (and/or the professional gaming scene) is big enough to carry two games and still offer big cash

CPL is gaming for the minority

What's your point? ESR is journalism for the minority, the majority are those sitting laughing at hookers in GTA.

The same ESR journalism which covered PK in the CPL WT so poorly? Surely that was gaming for a minority, or a minority of a minority? It certainly didn't appeal to the majority of ESR readers, hookers or not.

Er, I'm pretty sure our WT coverage has been about the same as other events, and as ESR isn't an organised news site - anyone can submit at any time, there wasn't anything stopping someone from doing better.

Why would they want to? The lack of posts was based on lack of interest... with only 84 players registered in the CPL WT, and a community of around 20, PK had minority appeal, CPL or not.

I got the chance to speak to Angel today here at Quakecon and he really wants Q4. He'd grabbed the videos off the net id uploaded and came down to the event, even though he hadnt planned to do so, simply to get a better look at Q4.

He actually said "its a done deal for me, we just have to see if iD will agree".

Personally, I think it would be great for the CPL and pro gaming in general if this comes off.

(see journal : http://esreality.com/?a=post&id=863187 )

It will be awsome if they get an agreement and let the CPL use Q4. It feels like so many top players in different games are waiting for the next big DM game to come. And Q4 certainly looks like it will be it. And a WT with Q4 will make those players play it even more due to the big prices and the level of skill will grow fast and high.

wicked!

Come on, how can you doubt that Q4 will be great? How can you even think that it will be bugged and no one will care about fixing it before WT? I don't know how long are you in the gaming community, but you should remember that we're talking about ID SOFTWARE here! I guess that no other game developer has such a great connection with the community (well, maybe except Blizzard, but I don't really pay attention). Seen the movies? We have scoreboards already, most of the stuff needed for tournaments (OSP won't be needed ;D), the new 1v1 system (!)... I wouldn't be amazed if it had GTV already in the box...

Come on... It's ID... They have never ever made a shit game... You say Doom3 - I say it hadn't been meant a mp game...

That's true about MP and D3.

funny though, it's not id software.

Actually it is. Raven is only doing "the dirt work", id supervises them and tells them what to do. And still id manages the game.

eswc > cpl

this is getting better and better !

The possibilities are quite endless with Quake4, if you look at it being released on the xbox 360 and think that ID could push a format through for watching professional tournaments on your TV at home on your xbox, ID alone could quite easily make quakecon the #1 platform for 1v1 gaming. Which would then force CPL to use team based games. But who knows, CPL could be Quake again, its not impossible.

- macR

I'm not sure if I got your post right, but as a competition platform Quakecon is a joke imo. Serious tournaments have group stages and bo3 and such things like a working GTV, not FFA qualifiers or similar stuff. Quakecon seems to be a huge LAN party for id fans, oh and it got a tournament with some great players which makes the tournament cool (read: not that shitty). But other than that, Quakecon is not even close to events such as ESWC (I've never been to any of these events, just telling by coverage and journals, articles etc.).

"but as a competition platform Quakecon is a joke imo. [...] Quakecon seems to be a huge LAN party for id fans"

yes, that is exactly what it is and what it was always meant to be. Quakecon is not about the competition.

Quakecon seems to be a huge LAN party for id fans

Gee, I'm glad you finally got it, after 10 years of quakecon! That's probably why quakecon is free, and for whoever registers first, right?

It has always been known qcon is not a tournament with a lanparty. It's a lanparty with a tournament, sometimes. Get over it.

What's your problem, I never claimed that Quakecon would be a serious tournament, actually I tried to correct macR's post. I just added the 'seems' because I've never been to neither Quakecon nor ESWC or any other really big event. I read macR's post as "Quakecon could easily become the #1 gaming platform for competitive esports". And I simply don't agree at all and tried to point out exactly this.

wtf :<

You're right, I humbly apologize.

:>

np m8

group hug.

*feels h3i's butt.

ruined the mood for me :/

haha

Evil green eyed jealousy monster attacked spyte :(

idd m8 D:<

QuakeCon never had the intention to become a world wide top tournament. QuakeCon was always very attractive for the Quakers, because QCON was about the only tournament that Quake3 had on the end. But on the list of top tournaments, QuakeCon is prizemoney wise definitely on it but in reality its a luxor LAN party with a good prize purse, nothing more then that. Definitely not comparable with the rest of the major eSports tournaments.
Nevertheless, its always an interesting event to follow, since its sort of ID Software's show event. Last year they showed DOOM3 and now Quake4.

I agree 100% with your statement.

I never really followed the whole CPL discussion, but i was wonder how did it become that so many people feel animosity towards this organisation? Surely it's clear that the CPL is an important factor in teaching this e-sport baby to walk ( together with ESWC, GGL, etc.).

There are lots of quakers here pissed off at Q3 getting dropped years ago, plus the whole "wtf PK?" factor among other things.

get over it...

No shit. Too many people think CPL is some kind of community project and not a business that exists like all business to make money.

That's all????

nah, it's a little more drawn out than that.

more about cpl's flaky decisions and inconsitent rulings

i think alot of foreign ppl hate cpl for the simple fact that it's an american tournament.

I highly doubt that.

No, I don't think most of us foreign people are quite that petty

hehe. how ridiculus.

its simple. Everyone wants to see their game be in the spotlight and they resent the CPL for not giving it a chance or abandoning it. When a game that noone plays is in the spotlight, nobody is going to be happy.

So basically, the fact that a lot of people bash the CPL is because of some irrational hostility or because they stepped on the bandwagon of CPL bashers?

Did you read his reply at all?

Everyone bashes the CPL as they picked a game that no one (read the massive majority) likes or liked at the time, had CPL picked a more popular game (read, actually having say, 100 people on at the time it was chosen) then just those who didn't have their game picked would bash.

Was the question directed to you? :)

So basically it is irrational, because few take into account the choices a company has to take in order to be able to organise an event such as the CPL worldtour, especially if this means a game one would have loved to see on the CPL isn't picked.

Yes you are right. People only look at it from their point of view. They dont bother looking at it from the CPL's point of view.
Its not exactly irrational. Sadly its just the way most people are. The world would be a much friendlier place if people were more understanding.

It looked rhetorical :)

I empathise with CPL (though I will bash them on some days), they have made an immense contribution to gaming, and they are a business. Their bashing isn't totally irrational considering some of what they have done, e.g. the summer dates (yes, I know their stated reason for what happened) and their change of stance on the reasons behind Painkiller (unless someone can find dated evidence from before the first stop collaborating the current stance).

No, surely not. But they pissed off a lot of people with moves like :
-Dumping q3, at a time when it was the obvious choice for 1v1 FPS, for immature (in term of community/competitive mods/GTV...) games
-Setting up an event at the same time as ESWC did, a competitive business practice whereas pgming is so little developped

- id's fault, if I remember correctly they wanted money from CPL for using it. The two companies were not on good terms.
- it has been said a million times that it was accidental.

quake players are pissed because q3a got dropped due to the fact that id wo0uldnt sell the cpl the exclusive rights for the game

would be so ownage if they did it like last year, now everyone would be expecting quake4, and angel announces teh game: unreal tournament 2004 !!! :DD and then, varagh -> rich ;)

you wish ;)

PK probably has a bigger community than UT2K4 lol :\/

no

That's a negative.

indeed. cpl world tour has 85 registered players, giga liga (german only) has 1500. And we didn't even mention onslaught yet with average 8000 players online every evening. Painkiller is a very bad game compared to ut2k4 ;)

It might be 1500 right now since it's a fresh wipe for the new season, but last season it had almost 3000.

And we didn't even mention onslaught yet with average 8000 players online every evening.

Hardly. Maybe 800 at peak times.

The ideal WT:
Quake 4 as the 1on1 Game
CS 1.6 as the Team Game

not difficult to guess that the games will be

1. team game: cs:source
2. 1on1 fps: quake 4

if everything pans out how the cpl would like it to happen

It's most likely going to be CS 1.6 and not Source since nobody plays it because it's an extremely awful piece of shit game.

u wish .. this is a business decision

I don't know... 1.6 wasn't supposed to be played at Summer CPL but since EVERYONE complained, they've put a last minute 1.6 tournament and it was still 10,000 times better than the Source tournament.

it had one reason:

cs:source tournament did not fill up and they usually need a lot of people in the byoc area to make sure the booths are frequented. they knew from the past more people would show up if they had a cs 1.6 tournament even if most of the byoc attendes just play one match in that competition. in the end cs:source almost filled their 64 teams and got less prizemony because they expected 128 teams. cs 1.6 was almost full as well with near to 64 teams attending.


european events usually have no byoc area because they rely on a lot of spectators showing up due to the coverage at the event itself and other attractions.



i don´t expect a lot of cs 1.6 pro teams not to make the change to cs:source because like every tournament will feature cs:source in 2006. the 5 worldtour tournaments, wcg + local qualifiers, eswc + local qualifiers (yeah i expect them to really make the switch as well) and esl (eps + enc + cscl) will make the switch.
i am not sure whether this will turn out like pk with just a lot of pro teams playing cs:source and all others sticking with their game but my guess would be that the more or competitive players will follow the pro teams.

weg is a different story and might not exist anymore in 2006. some local lans might still use 1.6 but i guess they want to attract the pro teams and feature cs:s instead of cs1.6. ggl/clanbase is different as well because at least in europe they are really big and i expect them to support cs 1.6 and cs:source like they did in the past.

unless something really unexpected happens the 2 main games in 2006 will be cs:source and quake 4!

Up yours, Mr. frag` ! :)

http://www.gotfrag.com/portal/story/29138/

so something unexpected happend tbh. maybe they know they won´t be able to make the mass of cs players switch to cs:source anyway and it took them just the cpl wt and cpl summer to notice that .. a really unexpected move even if it makes sense it does not really look like the way cpl acted in the past years

yeah you're right it's quite unexpected but i'm really positive that it's the right decision. everyone seems pleased with the decision and tbh, it's going to be 10 times more fun to spectate than if it was source.

It's most likely not going to involved CS at all unless the CPL have already announced that they'll be adding a team game. It seems fair to assume the the whole point of the world tour is to offer professional level prizes to attract the mainstream media to the events and the winners, otherwise why would they have picked an unpopular 1 on 1 DM game like PK over a highly popular team game like CS? The money looks much better when it's not split 5 ways.

http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/

New marketing plan, Angel? :)

All in all I hope it is infact the world tour game. I also hope it is the FPA 1v1 game for WCG, I also hope that ESWC picks it up (and that ESWC and CPL coordinate their events so they are not directly on top of eachother), and I hope GGL throws in some lan events for it as well.

In short, the FPS 1v1 community through all games needs something to play, there hasn't been anything that we've all "really" been into since the debut of Q3. We just kinda played because there was nothing else...hell, we even tried counter strike.. ;(

Amen

and lets not forget its a team game too

Yeah, but it won't happen. Even if Q4 turns out to be a godsend of a game, some people will hate it because it's not q1/it's not q2/it's not q3/it's made by id/it looks like ut/it doesn't look like ut/the railgun has a different sound that I'm used to/I don't like weapon <x>/whatever.

With lots of new titles, players' opinions regarding what they like and they don't tend to vary wildly. We have what, half a dozen big deathmatch games released until today.. there's no way you can put this whole group of people together under the same game. Most of the players are too egotistical to accept something like this. If they play, say, QW, they won't accept a game where the rocket is under-powered. If they play UT, they won't accept a game with no dodging. If they play CPMA, they won't accept a game with double jumping and ramp jumping. And so on and so forth.

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. I'm a QW player myself and I can't wait for this game, railgun and all that. I'm willing to accept whatever comes, try and have fun, and let the game judge itself. But maybe I'm just stupid, because most players doesn't think that way. Just look at the ammount of bitching already started because of Q4, because of a game they don't even know about... it's that bad, and while there's a good vibe about Q4 from many players right now, specially on ESR, I feel much of this is because of each own's desire for "the perfect game" to arise. When they finally get to play the game and see their very own desires aren't followed to the smallest details - because a shot does 11 of damage instead of 12, because a gun has a default ammo of 20 instead of 10 - you'll see the bitching session start on full force. I'm not even counting on the childish bias or fanboyism ("everything from <company X> sucks so I won't even try the game").

And that's why I personally believe no game will ever unite DM players; it's impossible by definition, even for id, even for Epic.

there's no way you can put this whole group of people together under the same game. Most of the players are too egotistical to accept something like this

forget about pk? do you think the pk players (apart cpma players : Vo0 and gel may be?) really enjoyed the game? Do you think they really had fun? what did they made play the game?

The answer is $$. Do I have to tell you where do all the PK players come from, what game they played before? In which game each of them was good? There are coming from different games, like the actual players, and even if Painkiller is bad (as so many say, I personnaly quite like it) people played it because there are 1,000,000 fucking dollars to win for what? computer games.

I think that's not egoistish to try to play a game, as angel said with No 1. Give a game, a dumb one, a clever one, a good one, a bad one, the shittiest game if you want, the one which have the more complicated gameplay or physics or move, WE DON'T CARE, here it's just a question about competition, you begin from 0 and have to be the best, 10 stops, just be better than your opponent and you'll have the cash. That's a vision of the WT like we had it this year.

Now, with Quake 4, what I've seen let me think it's a super-Quake3 : Quake 3 with Doom3's engine. This game is gonna rulez, I may be wrong, but I don't think so, from what I've seen, it has all Quake 3 had with some improvements. Now, Quake 3 is competitevely dead, UT2K4 is almost dead, PK will die at the end of the WT, what are all these proplayers gonna wait for? The new WT game, or Quake 4, if it's as good as I think.

But if, like Angel would like, Quake 4 is becoming the World Tour game, WITHOUT the monopolize rights. Let me tell you we are now up for some 5 or 6 years of hard gaming on Quake 4 : Remember the beginnings of Quake 3, I personnally wasn't born in esport, but from what I've read, if I'm not wrong, people were free to play Quake 3 in tournament, LAN, online and at home with some major CPL / Quakecon / Lan arena / WCG events. We are gonna have the same thing with Quake4. We'll have a massive active community, with lots of proplayers coming from differents games, a lot of tournaments, online, on LAN, and the WT, with its big amount of cash, the ESWC of course, and the WCG may also choose Quake 4 if its rocks, (only speculating). That is the best thing that can happen to : Quake / esport / us.

The only problem that I see are the fact ESWC / CPL summer are still on the same schedule, and that is CPL's fault. That's not bad for them of course if they are able to give more cash, but thats remind a shame for the community.

If the CPL take Q4 for the WT, we'll have a big question for : where to go to compete in the biggest Quake 4 tournament.

I was working at this years ESWC, till yet I didn't really enjoyed CPL's behaviour, but I do think what gonna happen is gonna be great for esport if they all choose to make Quake 4 live as it deserved to be, and without Monopol of course, as Angel said.

believe me when i say this.

i hate painkiller.


oh and yea i agree that if q4 = the next wt game it would be very good for esports :>

My point was about the community as a whole, not about what a dozen ''top" players would play.

I know what you mean, I do agree too then, but in this case, if people (= us none progamers) don't want to play quake 4 because it's a bit too different, than you can add Quake 4 to doom3 and painkiller and it's just the beginning of a long list since we won't find another game a part quake 3 that suit us, or quake 1 for the qwers and q2 for the q2ers.

If people don't even try the game, like it was done with doom3 and pk, lot of people just saying "it's bullshit, it's not like Q3" without trying it more than 2 hours, no wonder nobody will play the game.

There is one thing that, whereas to sport is sure in esport, it needs to involve and to change, and not only the graphics engine or what I know, it's a marketing product, and it needs to have something new. If you give a new game that's 100% like quake3, why to buy it?

So people (none pro) have to adapt to new games, and if they stay egoistical like you said, then they won't involve and they'll be hardcore gamers on their old QW, Q2 or Q3. (nothing wrong against it tbh, I do understand it too.)

I do personnaly think the community will move on Quake 4 because its seems to be THE game we were waiting for, and it won't be again a game where when you begin you are world TOP 100 players :)

gel :)

(soz for english and faults..)

anyone else noticed alot of noobs on q3 servers lately? can't wait for q4 and all the cs players starting with q4 cause they're bored with their game

lol true I noticed!

I don't care what game it is going to be, as long as many people are playing it, it's competative and spectator friendly it should not matter what game is WT game for the CPL.

hell yeaaaaaaa
q4 for cpl tour!! :D

SERM

i love angel :)

We NEED Q4 for WT06 :)

Do your Jobs guys and get this game for CPL :)

that is good news if it would actually happen. i guess quake 4 will bring everything a game will need to be THE game, for the next years. plus it's also coming for consoles, so the interest in this game will be much higher than with a game like painkiller.

there more q4 threads and news on ESR in the last week, than for painkiller in a whole year. let's hope the cpl and id software are smart enough to join forces. and if the cpl will have q4 as a WT game, they won already and can let events like eswc breathe.

esports can only evolve, if people work together, not against each other!

it's a xbox 360 launch title so no doubt the exposure will be there

All in all, I'd like to see Q4 1v1 as the main WT game/mode with maybe some side tournametns ala Q4 TDM & CTF.

Basicly a Q4 oriented WT.

As long as ESWC, WCG, and GGL can all use q4 while the cpl uses it then it is all good, but if they get the rights to the game in which only they can use it then it will just fuck up the community in the end. And that is something i DONT want to see happen DONT wanna wait 5 months until it comes out and find out nobody else can use q4 cause of the CPL having the rights all to themselves.

Was there ever any PK tourney's online for PK at all. I don't ever remember seeing any or any mention of a PK online league. At least not here in the US. Someone correct me if im wrong? cheers

There's been some online comps; PKEuro, indiweb, ESL ran an EAS

Well you certainly wouldn't find much mention of a PK online league on a q3-biased site like ESR

.. having said that the active PK community was very small - not many players to share out $1000000 between :) I guess playing for fun is more important than playing for money.

Quake 4 for the team game.

Actually most quakers play the team modes over duel.
But that's true CS is a big game atm.

CS 1.6 is the teamgame... it has been officially announced
www.thecpl.com

Its quite simple everybody... Quake gives a great boost to esports. We all seen esports stumbling when Quake 3 faded out.. Quake is the viagra of esports!