TOXIC WAS THE BEST Q3 PLAYER, THIS IS THE PROOF.

1 group game means nothing.
Cooller went on to win the whole tournament.
Toxic lost to 2 series to Fox, to Jibo and the crucial ZTN to Keeper, so he didn't even make it out of that group.

You are right, that is clear evidence that Toxic was the best Q3 player!

He wasn't even the best in Sweden, Fox clearly was! Toxic may have had a higher highest level of play when on a roll, but you just aren't all the time...

He may have been the best Q3 tdm player though, but even here i think that you could easily argue that Fox was better or at least equal.

I don't think he was serious... regardless, fox was better than toxic in tdm and duel both imo. i think czm had the highest "high" level of play ever witnessed in q3 also.

Questionable that fox was better in tdm, toxic was dominating long before fox joined ice climbers. As far as the czm comment goes, in terms of just any game with no circumstances applied you might have a point but one of the problems with czm seemed to be that in some high pressure situations he couldn't always turn on his 'A game' where all the great q3 players of their eras could in those situations. He certainly improved that element of his game over the years though.

didn't IC only really shine through as unstoppable once fox joined though?

Tox was the best aimer and attacker by far, but fox seemed much, much smarter.

without fox by his side, tox would have done nothing.

kind of funny, I remember an interview with reptile or phantom, just some online event (might have been ESR invite) before toxic was known as a force to be reckoned with.

something along the lines of "you watch toxic from here on out" and voilą; everyone notices his inhuman aim and he begins to rise as a top 1v1 player.

It was prozac, and talking about fox after he picked him for his new team?

nah, was deffo one of the IC players talking about tox

might have been before qlan actually when tox had his first 1v1 lan tourney?

Donno. The thing with prozac/fox definitely did happen tho.

Questionable, yes, but I still think fox was better (though their roles in 4v4 were very different and hard to compare. and well, not really much to say about their 2v2 game.)
Certainly agree that czm could fail under pressure, this is why I wrote he had the highest "high" level of play (meaning the level he was on when playing his very best.) Also, this might be wrong, but I think that czm only ever really failed due to pressure in 1v1, and always seemed on his A game in tdm and ctf?

i agree completely. when czm was an active tdm'er, his team simply didn't lose. he's certainly cracked in a few duel events though. threw away a "gimme" game vs DOOMer @ babbages to get knocked out, early runs at quakecon were disappointing, should have done better @ qlan2 (though credit goes to fooki for being so damned hot in that tourney), and then there's the infamous eswc.

another significant point is the EC q3 2v2 they won. fox's level of interest/commitment/shape was questioned throughout the season due to his heavy involvement in other activities at the time. but when push came to shove at the lan finals....fox carried tox big time.

i think cooller with a good day, and he has more good days than bad ones, wins toxic at any map. I like toxic style, i think it's the most spectacular player around but for clever and control player i think cooller wins, and one important thing it's mentality, cooller has really strong mentality, only my point of view.

Does anybody have the 2nd match? That was entertaining as hell!

hub:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1037036
ztn:
ftp://ftp.ligarena.com/2005/Demos/eswc2005/Qu...ney1.dm_68

the one where toxic spanked him?

with all the you are nothink on lan-stuff going on before this, this is the best thing that has ever happened. i smiled, and i'm gonna keep on smiling 'til i die.

off-topic:
guessing that czm stole tox strats in this demo to use it against cooller:

demo:
http://www.cyberfight.org/site/demos/24961/

smart of him ofcourse :-)

qlr lost on dm6?

old news.

Anyway, hasn't cooller beat toxic more times on this map?

I remember the QLAN games (I think) being epic, he lost the first dm6 game then totally fucked him up in the next, couldn't do shit against his strategy.

and of course, quakecon.

Still toxic an extremely impressive player none the less, but regardless of what stupid idiots believe beast aim is not going to allow you to be the best.

that ztn game is also epic ! :)

the first 10minutes of the ztn game was like a lesson in quake

controls everything?

pretty much

the first ten min are just perfect play by cooller, but see toxic only loses by 5 or 6 frags at the end. I think many players would lost his concentration seeing no armor on the map and really aggressive play and aim by cooller, but toxic stands up and keep fighting, i think this is a really impressive demo.

5-6 frags on ztn is a lot :)

Can you link to that ztn demo? Searching for cooller and ztn on cyberfight is googling 'internet'.

ftp://ftp.ligarena.com/2005/Demos/eswc2005/Qu...ney1.dm_68

its only a few posts above you, dumbo!

Got a link? :)
Making me really curious

cyberfight

i might be way off, though, it actually might have happened at quakecon?

I recall watching cooller lose to toxic online on pro-q3dm6 only to come back the second game running everything and winning.

Either qcon or qlan :)

wasn't that infamous 'your lg is nothink on lan' game?

hmm, i dont like the taunting in the middle of a match.. before and after indeed - builds up the tension but..

in general i agree. but knowing the history of these 2, its priceless.

In all fairness though, they were quotes from Cooller that he used to taunt Tox. "All rail and no brain". That was originally a taunt by cooller at tox, and tox used coollers own quote against him. That's the beauty of it.

edit: I assume this is that match. if it's not then my apology. I have not dl'ed this demo in the last 3 reformats, and may have this particular game wrong. If this is the one I think it is though, then yeah, Cooller had it coming.

hahahaha toxic never win 1 tourney in q3..........(1vs1)

i think

1st Cooller
2nd Czm
3rd Zero4


maybe top 10 toxic......

hahahaha have you

no coments....................

its 2, 3, 1 in that player order.

I think toxic reached a new level of play in q4, if he plays q3 at eswc this year i could see him taking top3 maybe...he dominated q3 at qcon but never played anyone that great in it besides fox if i remember correctly

why you think he dominated q4? He was the only one putting effort into it :D

z4muz was the best swedish q3 player in fact!!!... toxic in nothing for him

yes zamuz,fox,or fooki are much better in q3........... toxic top 5 in sweden

he played fox in q3 on quakecon, see the demo.

It's not 2004 buddy.

yea i think that toxic now more times better player then when he played q3... maybe now he can to stand in top 12 on asus c58 tournament =))

hey, just a friendly tip. dont literally translate every word of your language into english. it doesnt come up good.

dm6 is random