vertex lighting option... higher gamespeed ..and faster rocekts would be nice =D

thnx in advance

tried the 1.1 beta patch...not bad at all... keep up the goood work

game speed and rocket speed is FINE. some may see it as being slow but its a different game, i think the game would be worse if the speed of the game is changed; forced to make new, bigger maps; no1 knows how it will flow on those maps etc

agreed
Have a go of q4w for the options mentioned (|nFin1teFX|) otherwise the game flows very well for most people. It's nice being able to dodge rockets, but also satisfying to get a direct hit. Use your strafe jumping plus slide and the speed is quite decent.

i'll check q4w later....

It sadly doesn't have much of a big following, also needs ironing out slightly. But potential is there it's a real nice change when you can get a game :|
Air control \o/

if the game is so fine then howcome no one is playing it? the game needs to be sped up to be a quake game.

No ones playing it because it's too difficult to connect to a server duh.

And why is iD software fixing quake 4? I thought raven made this game.

Raven are fixing single player issues, iD are fixing multi player bugs. I dont think it really matters either tbh, id far rather iD patched the multiplayer than Raven...

Carmack probably blew a gasket. Raven had the full source code to both the quake 3 and doom 3 engines, and it's pretty obvious they completely neglected the quake 3 code they SHOULD have been using, mostly the netcode.

I think they're doing this in total Sync. On the comments on Shacknews you'll be seeing people from both companies posting about the patch issues and fixes and suggestions.

I really hope they decide to create high quality brightskins as I play Q4 in high res (1680x1050) & all the eye candy on.

Freak.

No no no, freak with a really really nice pc.

And bad eyesight.

or masochist B)

what hardware do you have in your system?!? and do you have ~60 fps all the time?

I would fucking hope he has 60fps :)

and i would fucking wanna know, on what system he can play q4 with that details :>

I havn't test resolution past 1024x768 but with that resolution and everything on/full I can play 4vs4 TDM's with no (noticeable maybe down to 59 or something!) fps drops.

asus a8n32
amd 4800+x2
xfx 7800 gtx 256
corsair 2gb ram
creative x-fi-fatal1ty

Game is set to ultra quality except I don't use AA + AF. The frames only noticeably dip when I play DM with alot of people. I mostly play duels & its been smooth.

AMD 3700+
2GIG RAM
7800GT

I'm planning on upgrading to a 512MB 7900GTX next month so I can enable AA+AF & boost overall performance. =)

hehe ok, that sounds kinda realistic, cause with AA*16 nearly every system should be forced to get down in performance very crazy :>

Yeah, with AA & AF the performance at 1680x1050 is pretty low. I can actually use 4AA,16AF, Ultra Quality when using Q4MAX's vertexlight & get a solid 60fps. =)

Here is a pic of Q4 as I play it now. [ Link ]

that looks pretty nice, but i doubt i could play with such graphic-settings :> wouldnt see the enemy at all at many positions :D

Woot! hitboxes are being fixed! Moving to a cylinder shape hitbox would be awesome, though the collision detection will get a bit hairier.

That may do bad things to player-player collision as well as some player-object collisions.

Very true!

There are two issues with messing with the hitboxes. Increased server lag with more complex hitboxes (rectangluar base or cylinder) and the second is clipping. It may cause a lot of new bugs in both singleplayer and multiplayer where player clipping is concerned.

Also! There is a chance that if we shrink the hitbox, you may not be able to jump as high/far. For example, the floating armor in the Fragging Yard. Right now you can strafe jump off the top, grab the armor and land in the teleporter room. If the hitbox shrinks, you may not be able to hit the armor with your head anymore. -- Now I know just how much that map gets played... but my point is to use it as an example. It may effect other things, we're testing it all now and trying to find the best solution.

Then remake the maps or let the community do it. Yea I know it would be a LOT of work :(

Can't you counter the shorter/lower jumps by simply decreasing gravity? Afaik it least would've worked that way in Q3.

Very true... luckily we have a very active mapping community and new custom maps will of course be created with such changes in mind.

I'd advise you fix the gameplay and then fix the maps.

One positive side of cylindrical hitboxes is that it should give more even movement over broken terrain surfaces. Personally I'm unsure what direction to take on the issue, it's something we've discussed in CPMa design, octagonal hitboxes would probably be the best option. Is it impractical to have a rectangular or octagonal hitbox that rotates with the player?

This patch is good news for the community.

GJ ID and Raven - keep it up and keep in touch with your fanbase. Community + company makes for a better game.

Is it not possible to code different hitbox types for SP and MP? Probably too much of an extra workload, I guess.

I think most people would agree they need to be shrinked somehow anyway.. Quake4 is too camp/rail friendly atm, u can even use it in close combat.

and you couldn't melee with rail in q2/3? you suck.

hi railwhore.

I really goddamn agree. It's like Unreal Tournament with the LG and Shock Rifle. It totaly ruin the game. People just use hitscan, runs away and use Railgun so you can,t do anything with ur rocket, shotgun or whatever and it's also instant, very accurate and powerful making it uber-lame and noobish. I know A LOT of people who would get a score 20x worse if there would be no railgun in Duels.
They need to make it do 60 or 75 max, damage everytime and never more. Maybe reduce it's reload speed too or ammunition.

There is an issue with the scorebot. It still doenst send frags when sending a getInfo.

Did it make sense? :)

Only mods are supporting scorebot feeds, you're offtopic there :)

Actually i wouldn't say he's off topic.
Every game engine for a long long time, has supported some form of serverQuery, where you send a request and get servername, map, playerinfo, etc. back. Quake4 supports it as well, but every player has a score of 0.
Q4MAX and XBM har tried to fix that be added the scorebot feed support, but wouldn't it be better if Raven/ID fixed the issue in the engine instead ? :)

does QW servers support that? :o

Yes, in Quakeworld you had to use xxstatus instead of getInfo.

I want classic models! What about Keel, TankJr - basic enemymodels? I'd love to see Visor also included ;)

yeah, plz bring back keel!

YAHAHAAAAAA
*throws arms in the air*

Maybe not keel and those guys, they where part of Q3, but how bout smaller versions of the single player characters like a smaller version of the gladiator for example and other quake 4 themed models

Please add a new model.
I hope an especially good-looking model and girl's model.

http://models.com/

Yeah female models ftw :)

have a look at this thread on polycount, some interesting takes on classic q3 characters.

http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php?Cat=...ge=0#91730

If repeatedly sorting the server browser, eventually the majority of servers disappear with only a few being left.

1. Netcode
2. Simple items (their bi/high)
3. Acceleration problems
4. Ability to disable all those glowings ]
5. Fps cap ( UH? )
6. Sound of RL (not too loud?)
7...

Suggestions:

1. More player models
2. better weapon models (hell, just import the D3 sg, rl, PG, MG)
3. better sound (and also increased lg/rg humming)
4. less gravity
5. bigger ammo boxes :P
6. smaller hitboxes !!!
7. better maps
8. vertex lighting
9. etc....

you should read

lol, I just read the title :)

heh i do to, but when its this big i read the whole thing :P no worries

the ammo boxes are indeed quite small though ;)

the ammo boxes are fine.. in Q3 they were almost bigger than the weapons... it's just ammo boxes... they don't have to look like brick houses.

That argument can be used for Quake 4 as a whole...it's just a game, why all the fuss about some bugs? ;)

lol wtf? Do you think increasing the size of the ammo boxes would improve gameplay? I don't see how it would. In Q3 you could almost hide behind the ammo boxes.

Fixing bugs is a different matter entirely. I mean, usually bugs affect gameplay in a negative way (e.g. the weapon sound bugs, the ghost travel from death point to spawn point etc.)

I was talking about the validity of your argument.

As for Q3 compared to Q4:

Q3 has a lot more consistency in gameplay and gamedesign compared to Q4. I just stated my preference for Q3 size ammo crates....which imo was more coherent with the design of the rest of the game, as opposed to Q4.

I said the ammo boxes were fine, giving you (and maybe that other guy) and opportunity to state why you think they need to be increased. Not only do I think Q4 ammo boxes look better, their smaller size also do not "obscure" the view as much. They are not as important as certain other items either which could be another reason why they are smaller. Bottomline is... making them bigger would NOT improve gameplay.

And no, you weren't just stating your preference for Q3 size ammo crates. You were suggesting that id software/raven change them to better fit your preference.

Unless you have a really good reason, I don't see why id software/raven should spend their precious time on a such non-issue when there are tons of other stuff that have to be adressed.

"Because I like them better that way" is a really poor argument.

I for one would not say they need to be increased, but I aswell would not say that the Q3-style ammopacks obscured the view in any way either.

The point why I like bigger ammopacks more is maybe just the fact that I`m used to them for years. To make you happy: I have no real reason to liking them more, it`s just personal preference out of nostalgy.

You should know where the ammo lies anyhow, so the size doesn`t really matter that much. And it`s not like the new ones are invisible or so either ;)

Indeed it's my preference. Let me ask this question: why simpleitems? Surely not just for performance increase, but because people are used to them. Some like simpleitems, I like Q3 ammo crates. PEriod. Big deal.

id software has more important stuff to attend than making bigger ammo crates, lol :>

And I haven't suggested simple items. I don't give a rat's ass about simple items even though I used them in Q3. They really aren't that important and Q4Max can always implement stuff like that later on.

id software has more important stuff to attend than making bigger ammo crates, lol :>

Yeah, ET: QW....

I think the current size is perfect.

That would be splashdamage.

I wouldn't like to see them waste their time brightening the current models, but rather working on new models/animations (less realism, more q3)
Other than that just work on making it play smoother, more QW less Battlefield 1942/BF2 inside a pill box if you know what I mean.

Exactly, couldn't agree more.

Please post bugs, suggestions, complaints, etc. in this thread:

Quake 4 1.1 Patch Bugs

NOT HERE!

ow my eyes!

MY EYES ARE BLEEDING

goddamn colour tags on ESR should be disabled

People, post your stuff in the suggestion thread instead

wowa, BooTes' way too fast for sampo! :>

First off thank's to ID and Syncerror for giving us some hope!

Most of the issues I'd like looked at have already been mentioned but there is a major bug when using high DPI mice that hasn't been mentioned.

Basically I found with my Razer Copperhead when I moved the mouse relatively quickly with the DPI/Sensitivity turned up on the mouse it would not track yet when I turned the DPI/Sensitivity down on the mouse it worked fine again.

At first I suspected it was a mouse problem until I did some reading over at razerblueprints http://razerblueprints.net/index.php?option=c...pic=4623.0 to find it was a problem that affected other high DPI mice as well, something to do with quake 4 hitting 100% cpu when high DPI was used.

Hopefully a bug that can be looked into :)

id

iot

cy

we are in 2006, please stop using old grammar unless you are a native french speaker ;)

2006! Quand a fait qui se produisent?

2006! When has done who perform themselves ? :(

haha! I just put it back into Babelfish and got this "When fact has which occurs"

What it should say is "When did that happen?"

Close enough, I guess.

haha, not even close. :)
"Ca s'est passé quand ?" would be the best translation I think. :)
Funny how you can't even get the same result when you translate both ways tho. :P

woh. After 10 attempts to understand what you tried to say; I came to the conclusion that either you are on pcp, either you used bablefish. And then I came to the conclusion that even in 2006, bablefish is still teh suck ;).

PCP!!! UA FFUCKNING WnwaNTT sOMSE WHTATA?/AS?>

my bad, you are on pcp :))

please fix the engine lag, it's lagging behind the given time for every single task. i think it's the key to make the game more enjoyble. it doenst matter what machine u'll put to run the game, at 640x480 it will be still bad.
fix the engine then fix the rest.
for example, i shoot LG i keep pressinf fire, i switch the weapon, it's switching and LG continues. The game overall has bad feeling, like u have to fire 1st then aim, something like that.
This should be #1 on the list of fixing.
And guys before you'll start bshing, please dont tell me it's q4 and its the way it is, it's not, it's all bugs !

The lg bug is really quite fucked up, even when the lg beam and weapon are off the screen is does dmg for atleast 3/4ths of a second until the next weapon pops up.

a little addition to what I suggested a while ago, after playing a bit more..

the bug with mouse sens and minor aim adjustments that make the xhairs not respond has already been reported, but it cant get reported enough or fixed soon enough imo. ;-)

but on to something that has bothered me since the game was released but hasnt been addressed or talked about that ive seen..

grenades need to be fixed..
they randomly stop bouncing, and react like landmines when stepped on.

yes im going to say "like q3" again, but it needs to be said...

grenades need to be like they are in q3.
grenades in q3 bounce around without randomly stopping. if they dont make direct impact when fired, they explode after a few seconds.
the way they are in q4 promotes more spam than is needed (and wanted imo) because they explode when stepped on and require no aiming, or luck at all to frag someone.

I have regularly seen accuracies with the GL be higher than the RL. not because ppl aim with the GL, but because they spam so much nobody in the game can avoid the grenades that are all over the floor of the arena.(ffa and ctf btw)

<br /> indeed !

here's a suggestion:

A smaller rocket launcher explosion. Right now when you get facial'd (thanks hitboxes!) you're also blinded and have no idea where the enemy is. The same applies to hitting a direct on an enemy--you have no idea where he is.

Penalizing players for being able to hit direct rockets just isn't the way to go. Similarly, being hit with a direct rocket is enough punishment as it is. You lose all momentum and 100hp. Being blinded is just overkill.

Edit: Also, a non-truelightning LG would be nice.

Need to add a poll about the sg damage. It kind of negates the rail doesn't it?

I'm guessing if the hitboxes change, that may change too.

no change on all 3 for me.

Ability to jump a tad higher, on some custom maps i feel like i cant even jump up on a small lege / elevation, feels like i bang my toes into them.

poor toes ;((((((((((((((((((((((

voted no on all 3, however if there was a weapon switch speed poll, I would vote for faster.

agree, theres enough time to go make a sandwich between some weapon switches atm

says the rail whore

shrink models

Dont waste your valuable time developing brighskins and vertex lighting when its already been done in Q4Max.

Fix the core problems with the game such as

Sound system
Netcode
game engine

but its probably best to consult Arqon from Q4Max on the higher priority stuff

A Poll on slightly faster weapon switching (more like Q3 speeds) would be good too as Q4 seems slightly slower weapon switching in real time.

Im in favour of an default overall but subtle speed increase of the whole game in all areas such as movement , weapon switch and Rocket speeds because the q4 engine just seems more slow, clunky and heavy compared to Q3.

I disagree, what Q4 really needs is help getting people on public default servers and making it playable on that first. Without it its a lot harder to get new people to appreciate the game when it feels like a laggy game due to lower fps. People who play in q4max/battle find it harder and don't often bother going on some of those public servers.

Personally I think make the game as playable as possible as public servers, then let q4max/battle do their best with the comp side of things. Fundamentals like better framerate should be available to everyone though.

Take a look at Q3, you still get a lot of people playing baseq3 for example.

Indeed !
You can never emphasize enough how a community benefits of a massive newbie base, from which several will get hooked to the game and become decent or even good players. :)
That's how we all started didn't we ? Fresh blood's needed !

exactly :))))))

Well, I just remember something I have forgot to mention early, it’s not a bug, but I think it’s a very important addiction to the game, plz work on a Battle Suit Power UP, I think it would be really nice for new maps!

Until a next time...

Bamout HalCyon

Pesonally I'd like to see a Tourney mode where when you lose, you get to play someone else who lost (losers playoffs whatever), its a great way of getting games against more evenly skilled players. Make it a serverside option so Tourneys can be played with that, or as it is for the more serious games.

I'd probably actually enjoy and play Tourney, but gave up after playing it twice and realising I wouldn't play off against others who lost, but it seems pointless for new people to get a game against a top player, lose, then have to spec the rest of the game when they could still be playing people more likely suited to their skill level.

For me this mode had great potential for a bringing new people into playing Tourney mode, but just feels all wrong to me except to the better players out there.

Edit: Oops prolly should be in the other thread, but think thats really for bug fixes?

rocket speed > ALL :)))

ID Software's SyncError will reguarly be checking this thread, and also gives a short update on some of the biggest complaints..

update me on this




<whineMode>

if developers did some goood research they should have known that the biggest part of the online q3 fps scene... expected a game of q3 quality/gameplay/netcode/fast paced action... what did raven/id do? they got rid of every single aspect that made q3 a great game... and called it q4 its truly unbelievable...i wish all the pro's that play the playskoool version of q3 alot of luck...



even tho this new beta q4 game patch had some improvements i noticed one thing on a server i joined at random... after 5 minutes one of the players typed "lets play q3" pretty much says it all

idsoftware and raven didnt hit the nail on the head when it comes to the q4 online multiplayer aspect..and last but not least they actualy said that they did a crappy test job..and yes it shows

so yes they build that giga patch...cuz all of the sudden they realize that q4 is bleeding 2 dead... large groups of online gamers are disapointed in the work that id/raven showed... if they wont come up with a good patch...their imago will get blown 2 pieces...

on a bit more personal level: i give em 2 months ..if they dont come up with something that makes q4 a real fast paced action game...they can just shuf this q4 piece of crap up the place where the sun doesnt shine.
</whineMode>

good luck.

What you don't understand is that they don't (can't) get what makes a good game. They are not hardcore players, they are barely casual players, as hard as they try (and I honestly think they tried hard), they lack experience and knowledge of hardcore deathmatch to understand why Q4's a failure so far.

That's why someone like SyncError is desperately needed, and we can be glad he is here now so that ID can take on the multiplayer aspects of this game and improve those thanks to him gathering our feedback.

they lack experience and knowledge of hardcore deathmatch to understand why Q4's a failure so far.

You're one of the few people here I regularly agree with but I had to pick you up on this point. Q4 is a failure so far because of the broken autodownload, the crappy sound, and terrible multiplayer frame rates. These three issues stem from rushing the product out of the door for a quck buck, instead of releasing it 'when it's ready'.

ya, that's another (probably the biggest :) issue. But there are problems gameplay-wise (and I think that's the point of |nFin1teFX|'s post), and the reason, I believe, lies in the fact that Raven, just like most game developpers, are casual players, those who play (many) games for a few hours at most, as opposed to hardcore gamers who spend many hours on a few games.

broken autodownload, the crappy sound, and terrible multiplayer frame rates...those basic components should be right from the start...if those basic things are buggy right out of the box you have the right 2 seriously doubt the intensions of the developer... and yes making a quick buck out of it(specially after reading some of the interviews) is one of those conclusions that passed many dedicated gamers mind...

if these basic aspects of an online-multiplayer game suck... etc

right now it looks like a pathetic atempt 2 increase sales of rediculous expensive hardware... and the funny part is...after you buy all this expensive stufff.... its still buggy.

big ups btw 2 the ppl of q4w q4max and xbatle and those that i forgot 2 mention here... amateurs who do a better job when it comes 2 improving the overall q4 experience.. these ppl never said... "maybe tomorrow"

[+]
I was on my way to explain what you wrote above...all tre VERY BIG isues..

Yeh but when you got a team of like 40-50 people all earning between at least 5000 dollars a month, a month dev time from a publisher POV is serious money.

I mean we're talking over a 1/4 million a month and MP counts for a tiny % of their sales, plus they had to release it when they did not make xmas. the days of when it's done stopped becoming a reality when develoment started getting astronomical. no publisher = no game, so you do whet they say.

releasing games before they are really ready to be shipped is nothing new, very few devs can afford to do that.

I understand what you're saying, I work for a multi-national company so am not blind to the economics of the situation. However, I will point out that crappy sound is a single player issue too.

One point I've not seen mentioned is that although online gamers are a small market they do tend to have a great deal of influence among their less geeky peers. I've had people ask my advise on games on many occasions, I'll only comment on the ones I've played but I can tell you I've not been recommending Quake4.

Yeh, I agree I think MP has a huge underlying value. The fact is there's a lot of people in the game industry who can only see waht's in front of them.
They have no experience of the gaming/mod community and don't realise it's the MP that keeps a franchise like quake in the public eye.
Sadly a lot of people makin the big choices are not always in it for the long term.

Regarding the sound.

In all fairness to id the reason the sound sucked is because CREATIVE had some sort of patent on it. If you play doom 3 the sound is fine.
So idsoftware had to either make the sound as it is (so that it would only work with a Creative card-with OpenAl) or faced getting sued.

well tbh... wether i do understand it or not... in the the end its not about me understanding them...but its about game developers understanding what gamers really want....

and what I'm telling you is that maybe what seems obvious to us hardcore gamers doesn't strike the minds of casual players.
I'm not saying things are right this way, just saying that maybe they try harder than what we think, and they just lack the experience to understand what we demand.
It takes time and dedication to get and enjoy the depth of Quake, and what makes it a great game. Why do you think most FPS players play something else ? :)

yes i know what you mean...

btw...was on a q4 whining spree today...happens to me every 2 weeks =)

have a [+]

Again, tbh, although I agree Q4 bugs are bad, complaining about Q4 mechanics seems ridicoulus to me. I mean, the difference from Q3 to Q4 is basically negligible. With Q4, Q3ers got a "to the point" DM-focused game with fast action, and roughly all the main principles of Q3 present.

With UT2k3, old UTers got a completely different, vehicle-focused game. Also, movement changed greatly, the main weapons (shock, sniper, rockets) were completely changed, and maps were much bigger.

Not to mention, all the maps were whored down by eyecandy, because the (2nd rate, non-gamer) map designers (for some reason) got to lead the design process.

To sum up the difference:
Q3->Q4 and no reason to complain about gameplay/respect for the gamers - vs UT -> UT2k3, and tons of reasons to complain about gameplay/respect for the gamers.

Yeah they're very similar, and the gameplay will be too once some key issues gets fixed.. hi hitboxes

UT fanboy =)

Show me single vehicle in UT2k3 ;)

There was a vehicle demo map, as far as I remember :)

hope u guys do everything that wins in the dbl jump rocket speed and movemt speed polls ;D also include stair strafe? ;p

increasing rocketspeed but not shrinking hitboxes will ruin it alot more

he speaks the truth.

if rocketspeed is sped up, obviously the game has to change its speed ( faster ). that would cause new maps to be made, EVERTHING basically.

what you guys are trying to do is make a whole new game. all that needs fixing is the weapon switching, and hitboxes which are being fixed

it's "ok"

q4gtv ftw!

Would LOVE to see more skins/models that are less cs and more Quake.. Bring back KEEL -.-

SyncError thanks for the time you are putting in, I really like Quake 4 and never liked Quake 3 myself, it's nice to hear you don't want to make it too much like Quake3 :). I was a die hard Quake 2 and RTCW player...

I think the single most important multiplayer feature that Quake 4 needs is r_vertexlight or r_ambientlight option. There will always be hardcore players who are in clans and only play on q4max/q4battle servers but for the rest, especially new players to games, they like to play on free for all deathmatch and public team servers. If you look at the current state of the public quake4 game servers they are not very active, I remember 10,000 players when RTCW was released, because at the time many people could get good quite fast frame rates on that game with vertexlight option.

My PC is about 1.5 years old, It's a ABIT IC7-G 2.8ghz overclocked to 3.2ghz or thereabouts with Radeon 9700 Pro. It's not the fastest machine to date but it plays all other multiplayer games just fine online, but quake 4 with the default lighting system is just unplayable on my PC, very choppy in places and q4max's r_vertexlight option makes the game run much faster.

Another idea is not to implement or 'step on the toes' of the q4max/q4battle team, but to release the 1.1 patch with the singlelight maps that dr4ch created here http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=921827

They look just as good as the original quake 4 maps, but play about 10 times faster on my pc and run as smooth as silk :)

thanks!

Personally thats not a wholly bad idea if there's a time issue. Release the Drach-fps maps in with the next point release if vertex light isnt going in.

Main problem though I can see with that is that the new maps Id/Raven will bring through won't be done (unless they are asked maybe to do them before) :)

A working lightdetaillevel on the stock maps with brightskins would be the best thing to do.

faster strafejumping!

faster! (?) =)

I don't know if these suggestions have been posted in this thread yet, but i would like to see:

1. The weapon bar not disappearing after weapon switches (possibly make it turn slightly transparent when idle?)

2. A different sound pack for the strogg, so you can tell if its friend or foe nearby in tdm with forced models.

Bare in mind these ideas are for base quake 4 to help learners.

MAKE THE TIMER COUNT UP!!!!

Okay, kinda big breaking disappointing news of sorts. We just got done with some of the hitbox testing. Things do not look good. Reducing the hitboxes causes a slew of clipping errors both in multiplayer and singleplayer. In multiplayer it causes adverse effects on player collisions with the map and others -- in single player it pretty much just breaks most of the maps causing you to get places you shouldn't, and then getting stuck until you go to the console to quit or noclip yourself out.

Then there's the other whole issue. I went over this with serveral here, but Tim showed us the numbers and hitboxes for all the Quake games. Its literally the same box, size, positioning and with similiar relations to world collisions. The box isn't any larger than it was in Q3, we're all just better railers. Now reducing the box would make it more difficult to hit and would once again balance our high rail percentages out, but it can't be done without breaking much of the game. The conclusion in the end was that if people really are getting that much better at games than in future FPS they'll try to reduce the hitbox size, but on a game that's already been built around those numbers its causing too many errors to go back and change now.

In the end, everyone else here feels that no one has an advantage over another play and so since its neither a "bug" in their eyes or something that gives one player an advantage over another in a match it could only be fixed if it didn't bring on dozens of new bugs, which it currently is.

They are looking at other options, but while the hitbox reduction is what everyone is crying for and is a good fix in concept, it may not be possible based on all of these test results.

I'm trying to get all of the community's desires answered, but we can only make changes if they are for the best and while its definately harder to hit the smaller hitboxes, its incredibly ugly what it does to collisions. The reduction also decreased players jumping abilties (due to these collision changes) as we feared and trying to make up for the decrease by increasing a players jump height causes almost as many issues as the hitbox reduction itself.

This is not to say that there is no fix, we may just have to look at other options.

And scaling the model up, even 10% breaks animations (and completely fubars singleplayer due to things like sitting animations.

there is only one solution: keel

I agree. The solution is not changing the current models by scaling, but making new models (similiar to Keel) that are slightly larger. This is one that really should be left to the community -- I say everyone give a lending hand to Polycount.

Would you include it in a patch with the authors permission? :))

Ah, official Community Paks.. that's something we'll talk about *soon* hopefully. I have a lot of hopes concerning those...

I don't think hitboxes should be changed, the game has already had one big tournament and has several upcoming.

I also do not see what the big fuss about hitboxes is, fix the bugs.... dont waste time fine tuning things that are not broken.

I thought the scale of the game itself was the problem (is 1 unit in q4 bigger than 1 unit in q3), hence the rockets being slower even though they're the same speed (in ups).

noone's getting better at railing, it's just the scale of the players is larger making it easier to hit, i thought.

or is the scale the same as q3's?

edit: not that this post has anything to do with a solution (weaken the hitscan weapons and increase the rocket and player speeds) but i was just wondering. :o

People are getting better no doubt about it, but I wouldn't put that down as the main problem I agree.

Thats what arQon said i believe. That they took the Q3 values and dumped them into Q4, however the Q4 engine has a different scaling to the Q3 engine so therefore everything is bigger in Q4.

this is what i thought too but it looks like that's not the case now? weird-ooh

This isn't true. Coming from the community I thought the same thing, but its not a scaling issue. Everything you're perceiving as different is due to two things, the viewheight being raised and the texture density.

ah thank you

So why do I still hit a player when I know I didn't actually "hit" them (apart from models look smaller as such).

The explanation doesn't quite work for me, because everyone that I know gets a higher rail percentage in Q4 than Q3 and thats with lower framerates, and if they go back to Q3 their accuracy drops to previous levels.

I appreciate you taking the time to investigate though, maybe its the calculation or relative frames that are taken into consideration into whats a "hit" ?

Personally I'd go with a lower damage railgun if there's no other fix, but I know a few who probably won't like that, but I do think it would make gameplay in Q4 better ultimately and wouldn't have to remake maps without railguns etc as some have started doing.

maybe tickrate is just higher ? :P

The movement is slower than q3 that's why it's easier to rail your opponent cause he's moving SLOWER..it has nothing to do with hitboxes rofl..

also, the knockback and gibbing is seriously fucked up compared to q3..everything feels "heavier" than q3..movement, rocket knockback, leet jumping etc etc..seems like you're stuck to the ground compared to q3 and the air control is almost non existent in q4 and it was the most important/fun aspect of q3 imho..that's what I immediatly noticed the first time I tested my q4 build as an activision visioneer..when you shoot a ground rocket in a crowd in q3 you see a few players lift in the air or get knocked sideways which allows you to finish with a devastating air rocket or a spectacular rail switch..in q4 when you shoot a rocket in a crowd, everybody stays pretty much at the same place therefore making tougher to escape from the incoming finisher..I think air control/knockback is the most serious flaw in q4 compared to q3..I must say I'm a huge q3 funboy and that's the first thing I noticed when I first beta tested q4..not trying to be a smartass here, just trying to give my impressions..

An increase in movement speed would make aiming harder and make the game more interesting to watch. It's quite boring right now.

I agree. If we can't get smaller hitboxes, then we need faster movement. There is just too much emphasis on AIM right now with people reaching 40% shaft and 60% rail. Increasing the movement speed would make it more difficult to reach these insane accuracies and the game would lend more credit to good movement as opposed to only good aim.

pm_speed 340

afaik, movement speed for multiplayer can also be changed independently from movement speed in singeplayer.

I was under the impression that the hitboxes were in fact not the problem, and, as you stated, were the same size as q3 hitboxes - and that the real issue was in fact with the netcode. So maybe this can be fixed by repairing/altering the netcode?

> default settings are 1000 ms max opedict versus 50ms for quake3
> and extra 10 ms local
> so basically
> by default u got 1.01 sec timenduige

> so q4 has so much decided by server
> that u need 1 sec full delay

^ select copy/paste from a long irc log.

Might this huge difference in game latency (50ms vs 1010) have something to do with it? More so than our lack of dodging skills?

Well if it breaks SP, why not MP only?

here here..

Ouch :[ Since the hitboxes can't be changed is there any chance of damage adjustments to balance the other weapons vs the railgun?

personally, i don't believe there's anything wrong with the hitboxes, i never did. i firmly believe the issues lies in movement speed. the movement "feel" in q4 is much slower than that of q3. i'm not suggesting we turn q4 into q3 concerning movement, but honestly, when you introduce q3-trained aim to a game where the theory of aim is generally the same, but at the same time relatively slower player movement - what's the obvious result?

imagine going back to q3 and railing against players that don't use +speed to run, but instead walk around maps. the result is that weapons seem much stronger, or that the community's aim in general has highly improved whereas the truth is that players are easier to hit because they're simply moving slower, making them much easier targets.

i know how much speed one can achieve after enough strafe jumping + crouch sliding, but during the initial 2-3 jumps, that point is moot considering the momentum an individual has achieved in that time is significantly less than the standard our aim is trained to track. what matters most are those initial bursts; lacking that early velocity equates to being sitting ducks vs middle or even low-middle tier q3 aim.

now with this abundance of super-dangerous aim in the community, the only solution for players to this point has been to become even MORE cautious, slowing the game down to CS pace. this has made it even less spectator friendly, and excluding bugs/lack of standard features in my opinion, this is the single-most significant reason behind the decli...excuse me, behind the fact that the q4 population has never seen big numbers.

something to think about....

I totally agree with will. Hit scan is significantly easier with slower moving targets.

Being a programmer for 18 years now - yeah, I'm that old :( - there is one solution that could still do it - two hitbox algorithms, one for weapons, one for terrain.

As long as you aren't using D3D hit detection on weapons, there shouldn't be any performance decrease from this.

That said, I totally agree with your point that rail percentages are just where they should be, and all this other superstition cr*p that long time fans tend to bring in these game transitions, whether they want it or not. But the lesson learnt from UT2k3 was "listen to the gamer community - but just listen a little!".

Ie change the hitboxes, but not too much.. if you try to make the longtime fans happy, they will just keep morphing and morphing the game, because it can never be Q3, and then you're left with some wreck of a game.


Yours truly,
a person who partook (far too much) in the "what is wrong with UT2k3" discussion. ;(

this guy said it. Listen to the community developers, but listen a little, or you'll probably just morph the game to something it originally wasn't:p

I think the same as megablazor.

People already got used to these hitboxs, also changing it will make the current maps unplayable right? (or that is what I think) and we are near to the CPL tournament so no bigs changes are needed.

From the 3 options I only support q2 style stairs jumping, why not the others? because the game speed is already good, if you make it faster the maps will not work (they will need to do others).

What do you guys think?

i also think its harder to rail in q4 because it only can run at 60 fps

hitboxes in every game are off, not really too big, just off when you are actually in game in q4 and shoot like the enemies gun it is a miss but if you shoot behind where they are it is a hit etc etc.

would be great if you could enable per pixel hit detection a la Doom3 :), of course it could only really work in 1v1's online or on lan

way to easy to rail in q4, i played q3 for a lil and i could tell that the rail took alot more skill than the rail in q4

yes because your opponent moves way faster in q3 therefore allowing him to develop more complex strafing patterns than in q4..

here's a suggestion for you idiots who don't want people posting bugs in this thread: lock it.

oh, and try updating bug information in the bug thread.

with all the new things coming out in this patch, i wouldnt be suprised if it came out in december

accelerating rockets...
perhaps to offset rail domination on more open maps have rockets increase in speed the farther they travel. wouldnt have much effect in close quarters battles but when you are normally all but helpless when faced against a railer at a distance, a rocket that would gain speed could be a more deadly weapon.

this has to be the worst suggestion i've seen in this thread yet....

maybe they should make it that you do less dmg if you hit the edge of the hitbox than when you hit the middle?

I think we should all move on from the hitboxes now. They tried to change it and couldnt.

The main thing here is thanks to sync and ID the community is getting listend too and responded too we cant ask anymore than that.

I think everyone got more worked up about certain issues is because raven just werent responding to anyone. But thanks to ID and Sync this is no longer the case

agree.
move on fellows. this is q4 not q3. we cant change all so it become a excact copy of q3. we must focus on the most important things here.. etc, netcode because i think it make ppl to continue play q4.
i have a really bad ping so i now what im talking about. got 50-80 on swedish servers, before i got like 80-120. but still pretty hard to play with 50 so in my opinion the netcode is the most important thing.

imho the problem currently caused by the hitboxes (?) is not that rail/shaft are too strong, but that close combat / spam using RL, GL and NG is just too random and seems totally unpredictable. in comparison with other games, I found it similar in PK, but not nearly as drastic in D3. so maybe another point to start off would be to reduce the hitboxes of projectiles, or to turn down the splash radius. in q4 as it is now, there are way too many moments, when you are hit and just gotta think "WTF how could that possibly happen?", which is imho by far the most annoying thing.

my suggestion: dont bother with these patches it wont change a thing and it'll waste a lot of your time

"Then there's the other whole issue. I went over this with serveral here, but Tim showed us the numbers and hitboxes for all the Quake games. Its literally the same box, size, positioning and with similiar relations to world collisions. The box isn't any larger than it was in Q3, we're all just better railers."

I won't say anything about rails as i've not noticed that so much BUT; I'm taking rockets to the face when i shouldn't, i know it, other people know it: Something is not right, and that's a fact; whether it's the rockets, the hitbox, the screen or something else, i don't know: Why is it a fact? I think if 20 people who have played 5 years of quake3 say it's not the same,then it's not the same -- i take that as a fact.

I would think it's the rockets hitbox, because the same feeling applies to edges.

If the rockets do not have a hitbox/hitradius, then i've no clue.

I'm honestly starting to believe that everyone has spent too much time practicing their aim and not enough time on dodging lately. I've read hundreds of opinions all saying that its not just that people aim better but that there is also a problem with the netcode/physics causing the issue of high aim percentiles. At the same time no one can seem to dodge rockets. I don't know anymore. I felt the same way about Q4 until about a month ago where I've spent almost all of my practice time on dodging and I don't see any issue anymore.

I'm not down playing any of this as being a non-issue. Its just interesting trying to find solutions when the problem isn't clear. I bet most peoples aim is better in Q4 just because players move slower in general, but I don't like the idea of increasing the speed.

In Q4 its basically the case that you can get going as fast or perhaps faster than you could in Q3.. but it takes a bit more time to get to that speed. You don't break as fast as you could in Q3, that's the issue. So people get pinned down by enemy fire more, its more difficult to break from lightning, and get tagged by more rails.

The problem is as evasive as the solution.

good point

Acceleration to max run speed being higher would be nice and more "instant" switch in direction without loosing speed or something. (Talking about dodging 100% here)

I'd say increase ground acceleration and friction, but if you're not keen on changing movement speed, leave that alone. I tried this in a little mod I played on LAN, and along with increasing crouchsliding time due to extra friction, it felt much more controllable without changing the actual movement speed.

This sounds like it could help, because right now 'something' is making player movement in q4 feel like shit, despite claims that everything's as fast as it ever was.

And I don't buy it's just the increased viewheight.

It's because it is not using the same physics engine. Remeber how Doom3 engine has "proper" physics.

Maybe I need more dodge praccy (well I def do) but I move out of the way of a rkt as I would in q3 when i see it coming for me but it always ends up smacking me in the face even if it looks like it's going past. is this the same stuff everyone's talking about or is it the issue todowith the way the player view hight seems to be higher than in the previous game?

Speed should be left as it is. However, acceleration could use about 50% increase.

"In Q4 its basically the case that you can get going as fast or perhaps faster than you could in Q3.. but it takes a bit more time to get to that speed. You don't break as fast as you could in Q3, that's the issue."

Yes... Q4's movement speed does'nt catch up with Q3's all of the sudden, Q3's movement speed is "consistantly faster" than Q4's. Until you add in slopes to ramp jump and sliding.. then it catches up. Ramp jumping and Sliding should be an improvement to Q3's movement, something "extra"... but atm its being used as something to get upto par with Q3's movement. Also not every inch of the map is covered in ramps and slopes.


"So people get pinned down by enemy fire more, its more difficult to break from lightning, and get tagged by more rails."

Yes, exactly.. sliding etc is useless in a middle of a battle. So your only option is base Q4 speed(pm_speed 320), this is too slow to escaped or even dodge to any decent effect... your a dead weight pinned down by the enemies fire.

It should be quite clear that pm_speed 360 is the optimal solution and that pussyfooting around the problem will not fix a thing.. the speed needs increasing!

I don’t know if any somebody already pointed this out. But in Quake 3, rockets and rail slugs was only 1 pixel wide, and that makes it harder to hit and easier to dodge. The rockets in Quake 4 have mass, don't know the precise number of pixels, but they are certainly bigger.

So how about changing the hitbox’s of the rockets/rail slugs instead. That should change it back to the way it was in Quake 3.

Rockets / Plasma / Nades are larger.. I like it that why.. its the movement that needs changing.

but I think the rockets and nades should be reduced to plasma size, which is still larger than every other projectile.

PLEASE increase the speed to say 350, its what the majority want :)

I agree that the exactly solution is hard to come up with and I also appreciate you taking the time to listen to everyone in this thread.

BUT, I don't think dodging is the issue. There is something with saying that its easier to pin someone down, yes I do agree with you here, but is that necessarily what we want? In a game that is so fast paced you need the ability to move and get away from your opponent when they are in control. This would promote a higher skill level since the controlling player would need to hit a higher percentage of his shots to control the map.

I think the underlying problem is that when you slow down movement you have to account for the speed of the weapons. This is why the rail is so overpowering, the rail is still instant (obviously), but everyones moves slower. Now I understand that you can slide, gain speed, etc. But how many maps allow you to get more than 3 strafes in before you have to stop, redirect, etc. The answer is that there aren't any. Even if you slide it just makes it easier for the other guy to hit you since you are sliding and not juking. Thus the argument about gaining speed over the long run does not apply with Q4's style of play.

The solution is too speed up the movement and the speed of the rockets. The rockets are so outmatched by the rail and lg at this point b/c the lg and rail were not adjusted to the new speed of movement. I think everyone would agree with that. LG and rail are both still instant and you are moving slower. Makes total sense right? So increase the movement speed and you have yourself a much more balanced style of game play which promotes more skill and better strategy.

This seems like the obvious answer imho...

Maybe the biggest problem with q4 is it didn't evolve. We all know evolution (or 'improvement' as I call it), is a good thing. Change isn't just a good thing, change is life itself. On a very basic level, we are simply masses changing positions in spacetime. If change was removed from the universe, everything would be motionless and without thought or feeling. Which would equate to non-existence.

But, it's not too late for evolution. Evolution is only one of many forms of change. And I would have to think evolution is the best form for a video game.

dude, will you please shut the fuck up already

Add martial arts

i think a game with qw style bunnyhopping could sell very well if they renamed bunnyhopping to the ancient art of ninjitsu

speed is fine , but i agree with ini and with gen4dius about ground acceleration

SyncError you are abolutely right about dodging, that was my first thoughts when q4 came out and everyone were crying that "hitting is easy" ... but now the time has come when the players should work on some movement skills. (poeple look at VoO demos.. i saw HOW q4 can be FAST enough)

(but i agree with somebody about lg, why lockdown? :) , if everyone cries 'bout hitboxes than change anything equivalence:-> i played 3 days with my friend testing on 340-360 speed, well 360 was really fun ^_^ maybe it would be fine becouse we could feel no LARGE hitboxes becouse dodging was easier to do :) but after some of the testing we decided that speed should be left as it is.. maybe just a bit "instance" and the problem would be solved concerning hitboxes...
just a bit acceleration from the standing point :)
IMHO (and its final conlusion i could come with)

Re: update: dissapointing, but not really surprising. Guess what you need is to "fix" rail :>

and increase ground speed/acceleration

If you mark down the constants, you can focus on the changes.

http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot000015zl.jpg

when looking at this screen I cant believe that the hitboxes have the same size as in q3. its just unreal huge. I also remember arqon saying the hitbox size would be something like 30x30x54 units in q3 and 32x32x72 units in q4 and tbh this is what I experience during playing.

*edit* link changed *edit*

cant see it

Sorry if these have already been mentioned but didnt want to look through all 200 comments.

Suggestions:

I would like more announcements in tourney mode like "you have taken the lead" and "you have lost the lead" i know they are in ffa but would be nice in 1v1.

Slightly faster rocket to rail switch would be nice especially since theres a combo reward for it.

different enemy models, old models like visor and phobos would be amazing!

Thats it for now!

i agree with that

Something I really can't understand is why q3's models look light years ahead of q4's..even q2's models were superior..hmmm

They went for generic space marine / cyborg models :(

I would like more announcements in tourney mode like "you have taken the lead" and "you have lost the lead" i know they are in ffa but would be nice in 1v1.

This is a horrible suggestion, not even gameplay affected....

didn't say it was gameplay affected, just a suggestion

I think that we should use this strict contact with the devs by putting up a player feedback with the pros, who are the ones with the highest amount of practice time and know better than anyone else the problems inherent to the movement and weapons department.
Of course the changes proposed by the pros (which I think would go in the same direction for the major part of them), should also be seen in a critical manner with a 'fun' perspective by the rest of the community. Then with such guidelines, the devs will find a solution.

Anyone has something to gain from this, the devs will finally turn this game into something really good, thus giving the player base a funny and competitive game supported by the tournaments, repaying the pros for their efforts :D

I think relying on pros to suggest changes to Quake 4 is a bad idea. To be really honest, a lot of complaints here have to do with people actually not wanting to spend (time) years mastering Quake 4 like they had to do in Quake 3 or any other previous Quake game. They come to Quake 4 and expect certain tings to be like a game they spent years with, which naturally follows that they expect their previous skills to make em as good as they were before. Then they find out it's not true. The pro's are not exempt from this type of thinking, especially since they focus on skilled-type playing. This what make's makes suggestions that pro's lend "advice from pro gamers" and not "professional" advice, in my opinion. Hehe, I think there is a difference. I know i didn't convey my idea as good as I really should, but I did my best:p

MUCH MUCH props syncerror and the like, for paying attention to the voice of the online community. You truly deserve a collective award from us, lol. For Real:p

p.s. leave rox speed(keep it q4, not q3), add dbl jumping(it enhances the gameplay, not make it more like q3's), fix the bugs. We have our q4:p

i just cant stand the fact that you can use the grenade launcher like a second rl, its pretty impossible to not hit a grenade in tdm ... (whenever i spam on fy from gl to shaft i kill one or two enemys, or team mates...)
jumping over grenades is also pretty impossible :/

1. About the problems with "hitboxes": (I suspected that smaller "hitboxes" will cause problems with current maps, back when the idea was first proposed on ESR.) I think, I have a solution: leave current "hitboxes" for movement, but add another -- smaller "hitbox" -- for actual shooting. I.e. a player model should have one "hitbox" for map collision detection and another "hitbox" for shooting detection. (I repeat because my English is bad.) It's a hack, but this should work.

2. Also, I don't like that projectiles have "hitboxes". I'd prefer how it was done in Q3: you can aim your crosshair a single _pixel_ below an arch and your RL won't hit the arch and will fly further. The rocket "hitbox" causes the bad feeling of "I see that I dodged, but still the rocket exploded in my face".

3. Definitely sound should be fixed. Footsteps' sound is terrible. Player positioning is damn bad without OpenAL. Rockets don't have sound when they are flying. And what about Doppler effect? Also the player sounds are not very fun: make the guy not be so greasy. :-)

4. And as was mentioned before, func_plat should be fixed: currently it adds func_plat's speed to projectiles if player moves on it. Yes, it's like in "real life" and follows physical rules, but then the thing should be added to jumppuds and players' movement... I think func_plat should be fixed -- it's easier and won't change that much in the game (but it would be fun to look at a game that follows all physical rules. :-) ).

5. The much loved gauntlet should be fixed as well: it takes too much time to make it spinning. Why? Gauntlet is a last chance weapon -- without it been fast there is no need in it. I haven't seen a single demo where gauntlet was used. I think gauntlet should be activated right when you press fire key.

6. Fix the well known SG bug: after SG has made last shot, it takes no time to switch to another weapon.

7. Splash damage goes thru walls and floors! With rocket I can hit a ceiling right below my opponent (who is one level above me) and he'll get some damage thru thin floor. This looks very unrealistic.

8. Make SG shots push opponent back. LG _definitely_ shouldn't hold a player (and show the useless and distracting lightings on his screen) -- LG should push opponent away a little bit from shooting player.

9. Add a "water" and "water" sound. When you wade in water, your movement should be slow and you should make specific sounds.

10. Make NG weaker.

11. Is there a way to add a custom respawn time to a weapon on a custom map? I.e. I want my RG to respawn only once a minute (other weapon should be defaulted). In a Quake 4 editor, when I add "respawn" key to RG it makes nothing it a game (RG respawns as usual); "respawn" key works for MH, though.

Longer RG spawntime would balance the game a whole load.

the bad thing about a longer spawntime is that the rail would be easiert o control, thus making the rail even more important.

If the rail had the same respawn rate as MH/RA, it would be substantially harder to camp it.

Er no. You would have one player who is in control keeping control by railing and picking up the delayed rail. It dosn't work that way.

you know the RA respawn time is even below the RG respawn time? ;)

for MH I agree, but for RA? lol ;)

oops =)

That's what I want it to be:I want my Quake map be more about map control. Unfortunately, it's not so easy to make RG respawn as _I_ want.

They already tried two hitboxes... one for moving and hitbox for taking damage. It was soooooo much more laggy than q4 is now, so they ditched it and are trying to figure something else out.

So, does it meant that main math and net code comes into the "hitbox" calculations?!! Er... is it so hard to program such simple algorithms?..

I wouldnt really know since im not one of them :)

Just make larger and more balanced maps then I guess. Definitely a [+] for the cooperation with community.

dunno if this has been adressed yet but its about the dodging skill on rockets, i can say i am good and dodging rockets in general in quakeworld and quake3 and cpma but in q4 every time i try to jump over a rocket no matter what angle it will never happen unlesses the rockets are almost paralel to the ground, over the quakes ive memorized what kind of rockets i can jump over and the ones i can not but this just doesent seem to happen in q4.
If its not the hitboxes size ( due to the fact they are equal to other quakes) then the rockets got bigger :p

I'm sure that rockets now have size. In Q3 rockets are just dots when it comes to hit detection and it's easy to dodge them. Try to shoot a rocket several pixels below an arch in Q3 and in Q4 and you'll notice difference at once.

yeah i know they were 1 pixel large even granades and plasma in q3 and other quakes o that must be it maybe its the projectile models that got bigger =o

http://www.overdrivepc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9678

Xbattle, in other words. Why didn't you said that clearly? And why people prefer Q4max with its "normal" phisics?..

cause xbattle is shite

so, basically, anything worth changing is either too hard to fix or has some obscure technical limitation. ok. fine. dead quake.

tell them not to bother with q5 until they're serious about making a decent game.

hm i think like someone said:
hitboxes fix= "Projectiles:
Grenades are supersize! and largest out of all projectiles by far.
Next are rockets which are still massive projectiles.
Then Plasma.
Followed by NG.
MG / LG / RG all the same, one pixel."

would be fine reducing rocket/granade sizes..

or other options - speed.., ground acceleration..,
"leave current "hitboxes" for movement, but add another -- smaller "hitbox" -- for actual shooting. I.e. a player model should have one "hitbox" for map collision detection and another "hitbox" for shooting detection." as someone
wrote

Another Critical thing i would like to be fixed. To be able to run with weapon that has 0 ammo, without auto switching to an upper weapon with ammo.It is stupid that u cant switch to the weapon that has 0 ammo.
Like it happens sometimes, when u run out of ammo in the battle and u click the RL but the game switches it to Rail. It's good if u get a lucky rail shot, however, most of the time u fail to deliver the shot.

Yeah it would make sense being allowed to switch to a weapon with 0 ammo. This is key because sometimes you want to have the weapon out before you walk to that ammo box. It saves a few precious fractions of a second. I think these little things will add up to make q4 smoother to play.

And when you're shooting a weapon that runs out of ammo it should shoot once THEN switch not instantly switch to rail. Basically make this all like q3 was....

Also allow the ability to turn off autoswitch when you try to shoot a weapon with no ammo. Equally annoying when it switches to rail :(

moved to correct thread....

I dont beleive this has been posted before, sorry if it already has but here's what i would like to see in future patches. Im a moviemaker and so far quake4 hasent gotten the attention of many moviemakers because of a few commands that need to be fixed. For one Avidemo. At its current state avidemo is almost useless due to the fact that rail trails, rocket trails, gernade trails and rail trails disappear. The process of which movies are recorded can be found here: http://own-age.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39202&page=1 . Also, the command g_showhud (Default 1) if set to 0 SHOULD NOT remove the "You fragged _____" , the Crosshair ( you can take out the crosshair through menu/console so if you don't want a crosshair in your video you can make it disapear), the Impressive/Exellent/Combo Kill ETC. symbols. In the link i posted above are also more commands that might need a little tuning if these commands mess with some other ones.

I beleive that movies will only help the community out by saying "Hey, good movies CAN come out of quake4". Look at CS1.6, about 10 movies are released PER DAY which makes it fun to play and makes people who've never played the game play it so they can get a frag just like that.

mg damage should be 3 with 50 starting ammo

tbh tbh tbh.

I think mg should do 5dmg and 50 starting ammo :)

I did that in a little mod I played on LAN, and it worked out rather nicely. :)

I actually spent about an hour reading almost every suggestion and comment. :P

Anyway, is this QUAKE4 or QUAKE3 we are talking about here?

imo too many of you are trying to get the game closer to Q3 and not a game of its own. I think more of you are just pissy cause so called 'newbs' are now able to rail your fat asses. :P

A new game will bring out some new skills. So basically old guys like me are now able to hit a bit better cause we can actually see whats going on. :P

All in fun.

Suggestion though.. although I know arQon is working on this for me too..

Freeze Tag mod!

I know some will flame it.. but I will put money on it that it would be a much more active and competitive community. Those that know me know this to be true :P

Damn.. I am gonna get flamed up the ass here. :P

GGL- Alien

Nearly forgot.. Clock ticking up would be GREAT.

Man changing the rocket speed will change the game. Go play q3. You want really fast rockets? Go play enemy territory damnit lol/ Plz ID Don't change the rox speed. You must realized what I've said about how it will change the essence of q4. How can it not?

DO NOT touch the movement speed it will just fuck up the trick jumps and so on on the maps...and sliding makes q4 mutch faster. increas the RL speed litte litte but not mutch because than RL will be to overpowerd because of the movement speed. lower the LG dmg litte aswell and lower MG dmg to 5 and start ammo 50. and for the love of god! fix the spread on SG its so random/overpowerd atm. and work on ingame buggs/netcode and also fix a menu for demolist and fix so u dont need all the files the server had where the demo was recorded. And also fix the mouseacc in 1.1 and fix the lagg u get with 1600dpi mouses. and start working on maps! to duel,tdm,ctf and not old remakes but new maps... thats what q4 REALLY needs!

my opinions on changes...(mp ofcourse)

"Quake" is supposed to be an arcade game, not a "reality" game.(save that for ET:QW please)

being a comp. game (whether ppl have gotten used to it yet or not) the extra long pause between weapon changes needs to be lessened...all of them not just the railgun. the extra pause and animations on sg and mg arent needed at all imo...just a waste (art doesnt matter in mp).

people keep asking for a rocket speed increase, but they dont want a movment speed increase. Do you realise what this would do to an already slow-paced game with large hitboxes? as far as im concerned (because of the inability to decrease hitbox size) rocket speeds and movment speeds need to be increased. I like 360 for movment speed but 340 is fine aswell ...tricking for show is one thing, but I think that tricking for a purpose (i.e. during fights) out-weighs showoffing.

for lack of a better way to put it...playermodels need to stick to the ground better. anyone that tries for the yellow armor, pipe-side, in Fleet knows what im getting at here.

jump height increase, to allow us to jump over each other....might require a few map changes...like the lg area (ffa mode) in sandstorm...etc.

the sg bug is still in the game...please fix this

very odd, but...my rockets have been doing a double explosion thing...not only causing a major fps loss in big battles, but also blocking sight every time a rocket explodes...and its really loud...more loud than the mg used to be and very annoying

cosmetic changes I think need to be in the game..atleast as something clientside that we can turn off and on:

the second stage spherical explosion on grenades and rockets? Id very much like to be able to turn those off...theres already an explosion and the uniform spherical explosion that stacks with it just doesnt look right anyway...but that extra shader no doubt causes an fps dip(especially when there are 10+ rockets in the same area during a tdm or ffa), and therefore isnt needed (again art doesnt matter in mp..please realise this).

Hey Syncerror, can you read my thoughts that relate to these votes at this link plz?

http://ra4.raplanet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1909#1909

It's the first post on the page:p

Thank you;p

Besides, I'm for the current rocket speed, and I worry that those q3rs will ruin q4 by making it more of a q3 part 2 than q4 already is.( Quake 4 already has the lightning gun, sheesh hehe:p)

I see that there are currently 1147(59%) votes for a change to make q4's rockets faster, and 340(18%) votes for the rocket speed to remain the same. I know that the former voters make up the majority. And especially, when you add the for "qw speed rocket " votes with the "slightly faster rox speed" votes, the majority overall wants faster rocket speeds. But truly consider that a lot of people will still be disappointed if the rocket speed is changed(340 is a darn lot of people!). And Please truly consider that changing the rocket speed is changing the essence of q4 to a previous quake like game, when those previous quakes can still be played, hell, one of em is for free! GO play that game "change the rox speed'rs"!!! Why are people SOOOOOOOO agaisnt having the Quake games remain unique from each other!

I've heard the argument that the Quake series is about fast paced gaming, and that "slow" rockets make Quake 4 not fully worthy of the Quake title, But think of this: How different is Quake 1 from Quake 3, which has the railgun, and q1 doesn't? WORLDS DIFFERENT GAMEPLAY! WORLDS DIFFERENT GAME PACE! Yet they share the same game title. Ah ha, i see that the aforementioned argument is flawed:p

Thank you for your time Syncerror, and everyone at ID and Raven:p I <<<<<<GREATLY>>>>>> appreciate the effort you have made and make in being part of the online community:p

People for keeping Quake 4's rocket speed the same--SPEAK UP PLEASE!!!!:p <3333333333333333333333333333

this is Quake4, not Doom3....
You said Q1 is different from Q3, and you are right, but both are fast paced games!! if you want difference, here it is: Q1 has no railgun, Q3 has it, and now Q4 has nailguns... ok?
I wonder what makes people say "go play q3 if you want faster rox/moves"... most of the complainers want to play in a big competitive scene, and there aren´t many (any?) major tournaments like wcg/escw/cpl for those previous Quakes, so now they´re trying to make the game that WILL be used in those a little better... so it wont be another painkiller or doom3, that will die when the first year passes by... (if they ever lived, that is)
And if thats not enough for you: I have never seen so many complains about one game like this, and you know why? because right now the game sux, it seems that the game came out as something that it wanst supposed to be in the first place!!! And now people are trying to make it better! more fun, more user friendly, more competitive, etc... and to the joy of the community, the iD guys thinks the same!
it makes me wonder...wtf is wrong with that?


I voted for slightly faster rockets and movement.

Sup Sonicm4yhem.
I agree with you that every1 wants the big mp community q4 can potentially muster that older, declining Quake games cannot. But not at the expense of changing the game itself(minus getting rid of bugs). For instance, people say the movement speed "is not slow when you think about it," but fast enough compared to q3's because q4's movement strafing doesn't have the initial burst speed, etc. Yet this is STILL a complaint to make q4 more like q3, because if you watch the trick jump in "Bel Tricking" Video in the following link, you'll see the guy use ((TWO)) jumps to hop from the upper grenade launcher in Over the Top to the main Mega Room Entrance.
Amazing!!!!(this jump was first created and mastered in q2, fyi).
http://www.planetquake4.net/download.php?op=fileid&lid=2221

I want the people who complain that q4's movement is slow to see that jump done, and realize it is not slow AT ALL, and that it's more a case of "my skills from q3 cannot be transfered identically to q4 to expect the same results in moving, fighting, dodging, etc. So i need to spend time learning Quake 4 for what it is...", as I've said in my post #248 :p

Yet instead, we have a lot of people demanding changes to q4's core gameplay, to ultimately make it more like q3 and such. Q3 and all the past Quake games are still alive and playable online vs other peeps. I think if you l really like'd an aspect of that game, go play it, instead of changing q4 to a Q# part 2, etc:p But everyone is welcome to voice there opinions right?, just like me, hehe;p I just believe I'm right.

I believe q4 owns(minus the bugs lol) and hope that the game itself isn't changed. All Quakes have been fast, including q4. For instance, in the relatively slower q2, it was my brother who first pointed out that ra2 rounds last like 45 secs-1 minute each, which seems like an eternity to my ol' Quake head, lol. He even noted how "things just flies across the screen" when I play(he doesnt play pc fps', lol). You see, ALL the Quake games are very fast, just each has it's own flavor and stizzle. Lets keep it that way plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:p
( I dont think that changing the q4 to be faster will increase the mp's population. For instance, cs is slow, yet every sunday, it has nearly 100,000 people playing it! It's more an appreciation of the gameplay that will keep an online community alive and fresh)

I hope that Syncerror see's that video, and see's it as testimony to q4's movement speed being Just Fine.

I hope he also sees the air rocket at the end of the same video from like 10 feet away, and realizes that q4's rox speed is also ok!( I've done and seen air rockets with q2's "slower" rox, but not from that distance; lol nice)

Thank you for your time and patience guys:p ID, Raven:p
Plz don't change q4's core gameplay.<3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

grrr,
hey sonicmayhem, I responded to you, but the post appears as the last one on page 5, instead on this page. Hehe. You can read it if you want:p It's post #253. I tried my best to make my point and will try more as required:p

every1 look at post #253 at the bottom of page 5 plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

-fix sound.
-fix zoom.
-make weapon switching speed identical to q3.
-fix bug: nades sticking to the ground and not bouncing like they should.
-fix bug: when hitting a weapon bind the guns sometimes won't switch.
-make clock count up(like q3), not down. or perhaps a toggle for it?

-talk a lot of crap about how the tmp mappers screwed up your maps. :D

"To be really honest, a lot of complaints here have to do with people actually not wanting to spend (time) years mastering Quake 4 like they had to do in Quake 3 or any other previous Quake game."


think of it like Unreal Tournament...UT/2k3/2k4...theyre all the same game, and the people that are loyal to those games like it that way...

its no different for quakers...we want this game to be "QUAKE" not a different game...why are there people that have problems with this?

quake has had arcade gameplay since its been out...this recent encarnation has more real world gameplay like all the other "war games" that are out now...thats not quake at all, and thats why we're all mad and making these suggestions.

we dont want quake 4 to be quake 3, we dont want quake 4 to be quake 2, we dont want quake 4 to be quake 1...we certianly dont want quake 5 to be quake 4 O_o

we want quake to be quake...nothing else.

if you were registered I would [+] you!

- add water, lava, slime, because i dont want other water physics and damage in every mod.
- make func_mover available for MP, simple like in q2 with connected target_null's as waypoints.
- add some cvars for serveradmins like g_disablepowerup, g_kickcamper or g_kicksleeper, g_nofalldamage, simply things the community wanted since quake.
- drop weapon/ammo cmd
- add location to playername when talking to team, like in doom3 ctf.
- improve netcode.......

g_kickcamper

What the....

Also, sonicmayhem. You comment on how the difference between Quake 1 and Quake 3 is that Quake 3 has the railgun and that's that--both games are fast. Yes both games are fast, but you sound like you haven't q1'd vs a q1'r who has been gaming harcore for just about 10 years now this year, like I have vs and with the guys in my clan's q1 division. LOL. The difference is NOT a simple q3 has a railgun, q1 doesn't, "and there both fast." It's more like," Ahh q3 is fast." Then go play q1 and it's like
"wtf!"

First, q1's nailgun is very VERY unbalanced gun and is overshadowed in use by the rl and the lg.

Second:
The weapon switches in qw are faster than instantaneous when used with a special way of binding weapons. It works like you hit a button to, say, switch to lg and while your using lg your holding another weapon bind(lets say rocket launcher). As soon as the guy's done with the lg, he lets GO of the rl bind and b4 the weapon switches to rl a rocket is cradling your face. No lie, lol! Not sure if I explained this special way of binding very accurately, but I hope you got my drift.

Also, count qw's rockets basically as qw's answer to the railgun.

Yes, the rockets are that fast.

The movement is also extremely fast and l33t and nothing like q2/3/4's movement, the latter game's movements all being based on q2's slower movement. All the other Quake's movements are more natural, and not insane.

So no, the difference between q3 and q1 is not a simple railgun in between the games. Besides all the differences that contribute to the great speed differences between Quake 1 and ALL the other quake # games, the railgun slows Quake's gameplay down considerably, when considering how q1 is played by pros. Imo;)

VERTEX LIGHTING!!!!!
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASSEEEEEEEEE!