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Support this thread! Most likely wont help, but it's worth a try since Sacrifice is 4-man snooze-fest:

https://bethesda.net/community/topic/54920/sa...importance


What I wrote in the thread:

Title: Sacrifice feedback | CTF | video examples | Personal expression in Quake and it's importance

I will try to stay as objective as possible in this thread as I wish to make Quake a popular game; thus my opinions are not for pure selfish reasons. Quake is very dear to me, indeed.

With that said, my own background might bias my opinions as I am an oldschool CTF player (1999+) who's been actively playing in the dark and dying ages of QL. Before you accuse me of being unreflected whiney veteran, I'd like you to consider the points presented and use reason in your arguements.

You're making a thread this early? Give us a break dude!

I feel ready to make a thread this early because I have now played many Sacrifice matches with the pros. Regardless, with this long experience, you gain insight into how such a mode will play out, and how it will do in the future.

In regards to Sacrifice, and the limitation it puts on individual expression, compared to CTF:
Sacrifice, even though on paper it is an objective-based game mode, it is heavily based on coordination, aim and fragging capacity. This limits the personal freedom and STYLE quake-players had in CTF.
Since everyone is after 1 objective, the game forces 4-manning. This strategy is especially true in higher skill brackets.
Sacrifice requires a coordinated attack/defence between 4 players, which itself makes it chaotic because not everyone will be ready for an attack (depending on if they were just killed or spawned somewhere tricky). In higher skill brackets, you are absolutely forced to stick to this strategy.

Compare CTF with this, in which you can attack with 100/0 HP, and depending on how creative you are as an attacker, you can make a capture without firing a single shot (aside from a rocketjump!); see examples below:

Video Examples:
- youtu.be/gaJ-ar-G4iY?t=269
- youtu.be/KsQnrshftB8?t=89
- youtu.be/qSw2fSVMzDE?t=168


CTF with abilities?
Yes! CTF is the perfect mode for abilities that exist in QC. I'd wish CTF was the main esports mode, instead of Sacrifice which is basically 1 flagctf + domination.

CTF allows for personal expression and creativity of players, and you are credited for being good at different things. Some are good defenders, others are good flagrunners, others are good at mindgames, others are good aimers. It includes everything. In Sacrifice, you do not have personal expression as it is dependent on 4-manning and powerups.

But wouldn't CTF just make Quake dead again?
Game-modes were not the reason Quake died. I think we can agree on that.
Actually, in the dying years of quakelive, the only objective-based mode that was constantly full and players waiting in line to play, were the oMega public CTF servers. Players included new ones, medium skilled and veterans.

Is Sacrifice intuitive or fun to watch? Does it allow for personal expression?
The Sacrifice gameplay is by no means friendly or intuitive to newcomers. Rather, I'd argue it's intimidating and is inviting players to become frustrated. Sacrifice is too chaotic and frag-dependent when it is played out. There is too much going on, and too many players at the same place.

If Quake is going to be both fun to play and to spectate, the main e-sports mode cannot be so heavily reliant on frags and 4-man pushes/defenses. This is not that fun to watch either, in my opinion. The casters will not be able to recognize individual contribution or strategy.

To compare, in CTF, you had the time and personal freedom to attack and escape with the flag in various ways. The casters of CTF games could predict movement and try reading a player's unique strategy.

There existed mind-games between an attacker an a defender. Some attackers had good aim, others had grab-and-escape playstyle. For example, on Spidercrossings (q3wcp9), you could time the enemy red armor, force the defender to recognize that you know the timing, and decide to attack the flag as the defender prepares for your redarmor-attack. These are some nuances that makes CTF an extraordinary mode to spectate and play. Furthermore, the attacks in CTF are often coordinated between two or three people, and the map design allows the time for coordinating a planned attack using different routes.

Example of how mindgames can affect gameplay in CTF. This is against the french defender "fishbone", who I knew had a top tier aim. Instead of fighting him (since he is stacked as a defender) I play around forcing his position instead:

youtu.be/gaJ-ar-G4iY?t=182

These are fun nuances to watch - Sacrifice does not open for these situations as it is dependent on 4-manning and a forced strategy, and not personal expression.

This is a highskill game we played back in QL (that had high rivarly as well), and was casted by zoot and ins. RED vs [nEu]. I want you to recognize the overview CTF provides for spectators, and casters.
youtube.com/watch?v=YHNFJv5o1c4


Thanks for reading,
Mastermind
Edited by MastermindQUAKE at 12:24 CDT, 14 May 2017 - 10635 Hits
Final QL vid | pro discord chan | dem0n edition! (13 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 11:44 CDT, 29 March 2017 - iMsg
Some recent footage from the "pro" discord channel with the old farts. dem0n edition! ...and other random bs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSw2fSVMzDE


This might be the final QL vid! Beta is fast approaching bruvs.
Luckily for all my fans and 7(!) subscribers, I just had knee surgery and wont be squatting or working out as much (as makie) next few months - meaning more vids from QC! :=)
+minimal troll


Sincerely,
Mastermind <3
4683 Hits
1761 Hits
AND AGAIN? New journeys (3 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 14:50 CDT, 12 March 2017 - iMsg
Including Makie and fo_tbh's next lvl flagrun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJ-ar-G4iY

We need this in QC!
2168 Hits
Edited by Mastermind-QL at 09:14 CST, 10 March 2017 - 3216 Hits
SOMEONE STOP THEM!! (7 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 14:34 CST, 23 February 2017 - iMsg
5754 Hits
q3 gibs pls (3 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 06:15 CST, 18 February 2017 - iMsg
Hi.
1) Wolfcam site is down. Need q3 gibs in my life
2) Can anyone provide me with another link?

Prophetic plays incoming. With humble sincere regards,
Mastermind<3


meanwhile in dota while I wait for the gibs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn8L0KG3_7A
Edited by Mastermind-QL at 06:22 CST, 18 February 2017 - 2496 Hits
WHATS THE TRACK NAME? (13 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 11:42 CDT, 4 September 2016 - iMsg
This psytrance-acidlike track is how I feel when I strafe by you nerds with the flag https://youtu.be/fDz0deTBUQM?t=286

What's the tracks name? Can't find it anywhere. I am sure its Dj Skazi. It starts right after 3.16. Is it a remix of XTC (skazi)?

halp
Edited by Mastermind-QL at 11:43 CDT, 4 September 2016 - 3925 Hits
Return of Mastermind & Makie [QC HYPE] (15 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 11:58 CDT, 20 July 2016 - iMsg
Despite classes etc., I'm happy about quake champions. In fact, I'm so happy that I had to re-create my youtube channel to demonstrate some beautiful prophetic plays with my bro Mr Makie (dream is alive bruv), while we all wait for quake champions. More vids coming!


Some pickup action; THE ESCAPE SPECIALIST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrtD9siGrWg


Some public action; SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tchh1B7SOzQ


c u at public & pickups

Mastermind<3
3882 Hits
Quake 5? (158 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 14:39 CDT, 19 April 2016 - iMsg
Hello fans.
Busy with studies so I'm not quite up to date. I heard Doom kinda sucked and Overwatch sucks as well(?)

Most importantly: I also heard that only hope for Quake is Quake 5, which there are rumors about? Is this true? Is it all true????



Finally, Id Software/Bethesda/whoever making q5 in case your are reading it should be called "quake prime", sincerely mr makie.
:===)))))))))
#freegohann



Kind regards,
Mastermind
(To all the haters from public/pickups, c u in summer; the Maestro cometh)
53739 Hits
#CTFPICKUP JOURNEYS | need demos (19 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 08:52 CST, 14 February 2015 - iMsg
Can't make episodes without anyone sending demos. Unsure if the project will continue. Will relaunch everything if so.

New email to send your demos to: MastermindQL@hotmail.com
Edited by Mastermind-QL at 06:50 CST, 1 March 2015 - 8557 Hits
ANOTHER Post your frag of the day (70 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 12:15 CDT, 25 October 2014 - iMsg
Hello fans,

Thought we could post plays/frags and what not in this thread. Regardless of mod.
Edited by Mastermind-QL at 07:30 CST, 1 March 2015 - 21475 Hits
Naity's movie: rePulse. (2 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 20:41 CDT, 4 June 2013 - iMsg
Thought I'd share this awesome work by naity:
Good old q3 & spontanctf times <3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy6_YpbROXY



WOROLOL
#freeMakie
#freeGohann
Edited by Mastermind-QL at 20:44 CDT, 4 June 2013 - 1992 Hits
THE CTF COMMUNITY, BOYS - WE NEED YOU! (291 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 07:04 CST, 15 January 2013 - iMsg
Good day, all!

So, the CTF scene is quite inactive and has been inactive for a long time now. Something needs to be done. The same players add over and over again in playquake. I know there are a lot of you oldschoolers hanging around here and on public CTF and CA. Well, the CTF community needs you more than ever.
Q50 is working harder than anyone with some updates in the channel so that the pickups can run faster, like in tdmpickup

I also want to encourage some of you TDM-players to try CTF.

I've been playing CTF since 2000 and I fail to understand if anyone of you say you're tired of quake!
Quake runs in your blood. Stop the excuses, join #playquake and start !add so the CTF community can RISE again, just
like Batman did. I know many of you are afraid of the notorious Makie - but hey, he is the nicest guy ever entered playquake-channel. :-))))))



In case you guys need some motivation, here are some of my captures on p9 from yesterday against an angry PYTON and his pickup team. He really thought he could catch up with the maestro!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhNZpmp6hQ8
Drama is important in CTF.

(dem0n, spec and learn!) ;-)
62262 Hits
Re: FRAGMA CAUGHT CHEATING (2 comments)
Posted by MastermindQUAKE @ 16:39 CDT, 5 September 2011 - iMsg
Zhu, hahahahah how embarassing. Whats even more embarassing was that video of yourself. Child.

To the point,
I never thought fragma cheated, always thought he was a decent player and a decent guy. Came as a shock.
1067 Hits
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