Imagine a Soccer game, where the leading team gets a def loss for keeping the ball in their lines and playing defensive ...

The opposition can still see the ball

it's allready a rule in judo were u can get punishment by decrease in points for being too passive.

i do however not agree with this rule in e-sports. since all games are played diffirent, were pk requires a whole other playing style as ut2k4, how can you apply the same rule to both games, you can't.

you cant expect the palyers to be active all of the time since that would be a very bad tactic in some cases.

what i am most afraid of is that this rule is pretty vague, when are u too passive? if you sit in a corner for 1 min, of 2 min? or when u run away for your opponent, you are still moving but the result is the same.

its true about judo, and it worked well... but in judo your kinda in a 3x3m "arena" or smth like that, not like in 1v1 dm fps games where its several rooms and all kinds of stuff.

As a judo referee I can tell you that passivity warnings are not issued arbitrarily anyway. There are clear cut rules as to when a warning applies and when it does not.

Judo needed those rules because there can be balance between two judokas of similar skill and whenever there is balance, attacks will be rarer (it's always easier to defend yourself than attack). Deathmatch has natural mechanisms forcing offensive play through a constant lack of balance (item pickups). I see no reason why they should be additionally regulated by vague rules...

Be competitive at all time? Ask any top DM player if attacking while in a one-frag lead with half a minute to go is competitive or plain trying to lose? ;)

Ummm...

this is quite el oh el

sounds like an original 1 april joke

all i can say is looooooooooooooooooooooooooool

i thougt world tour is already a joke....

a joke even though it has the highest prize pool in the history of competitive gaming?

wasn´t there some ms golf tourney or something like that with a similar prizemoney like 2-3 years ago? 1.000.000 dollar if i am not mistaken

That's exactly why it's such a joke.

the joke is you can get $1.000.000 by playing a computer game

Creating objectionable *moral* conduct rules by which pretty much any decision relating to the outcome of the match and the future of the player can be made without any imperical proof what so ever. Who would have expected THAT from CPL? Ahaha.

uh
lol

As much as I resent playing players who spend the entire match keeping away from me, I respect their style & alter mine accordingly, In order for them to gain a lead, they will have to play aggresively for atleast a portion of the game & should they choose to hide there after, they should be allowed to.

What are you gonna do next? specify which weapons people are allowed to use in certain situations?

cplol :/

Oh my :/

this sounds like a joke :))
only jerks would attack when they lead and it's close to finish of the match (and risk to lose the match) !

what constitues as "Stalling and/or hiding" as opposed to playing defensively which often times involes running away from the opponent

This rule is vague. What's also funny is that they enforced this rule after my 90 seconds hiding against Fatal1ty in cpl brazil final. Obviously my opponent of that match has never used that strategy.

damn, you're faster with your post :)

You caught him completly off-gaurd with that as I don't think you had done it to him before. Excellant strategy imo, you had been setting him up for months with that one. This rule is absolutely absurd.

I haven't used it against anyone every before and I would probably not use it against any other player.

what was the punishment when they enforced it on u

learn to read.

funny, i dont see him state the punishment anywhere.


stfu idiot.

Voo: This rule is vague. What's also funny is that they enforced this rule after my 90 seconds hiding against Fatal1ty in cpl brazil final. Obviously my opponent of that match has never used that strategy.

STFU MORON

c0w: what was the punishment when they enforced it on u

he doesn't ask whether or not they enforced it. you need to learn to read.

the WHEN bit? as in it happened..

yeah, no shit, you douche.

You and c0w need to stop making dumb assumptions.

Obviously my opponent of that match has never used that strategy.

He did, at QuakeCon vs Daler, breaking some lights and hiding in dark.

Obviously you've heard of sarcasm before.

That was brilliant.

Well, let's say this was sarcasm.

I'd say Jazka's english skills are to blame here. :)

F1
/team s

I find it amazingly convenient that this rule was never put in to place or even imagined when the CPL golden boy was doing all his hiding tactics.


It just seems far too cooincidental that a rule like this appear right after the CPL's Keanu Reeves loses a close match due to someone pulling his trademark tricks on him.


This organization reaks of corruption and favoritism sometimes, and I honestly doubt that I am the only person that has noticed this or feels this way. Maybe if Sander beats Fatal1ty using nothing but telefrags next time they'll make a rule that says you can't enter portals over and over or something rediculous like that. God forbid the "chosen one" lose a match due to someone defeating him tactically.

IMHO, i don't think this rules means much. it clearly states they will enforce it when you hide in EXTRAORDINARY PLACES. fatality running behind something, or on the broken tower in sacred does not constitute such an extraordinary place, otherwise described as 'not normally reached during normal play'.

also, vo0 did hide for a LONG time.

and in Doom 3, the game's engine is built around dynamic lighting, and using it for your advantage in that, while still being just plain old cheap hiding to some, is still within that game's bounds for competition, IMHO. if this was a doom 3 tourney, i doubt CPL would institute this rule unless someone exploited something NOT INTENDED by the game's programmers. (can you blame fat for doing essentially what every damn enemy in the single player campaign did?)

i thought vo0's move, despite all this, was an appropriate 'personal' response for fatal1ty, but CPL's message is clear, play professionally, and keep that personal shit out of their tournies.

if you want 'e-sports' to get anywhere, you need to enforce professional attitudes during play like any other sports organization. and expect many new rules to be made on the road to becoming more mainstream.

Are you saying that if you dribble the ball between an opponent's legs in soccer to humiliate him should be punished as unprofessional?

haha #272 owned #269

that's not the equivalent of hiding for a minute and a half. that may be more like a telefrag or a stake across the map, or some fancy rocket-jump off a wall to flank someone.

if you want to humiliate them, you beat them 20 to -2.

er, didn't get into the post, but the equivalent in basketball would be game-delaying tactics like the shotclock (no matter how much Vai tries to disprove the connection) or when in recent years, they tweaked the rules for fouling at the end of games.

I was referring to your CPL-ish views on 'personal' stuff, that's all. It's the most humiliating thing you can do in football, directed personally at one particular player.

I guess it's cuz of vo0 hiding on the roof @ sacred in the finals against fatality.
really stupid step by cpl. basically every thing you do in the game might be wrong in the eyes of cpl admins...

what a joke

...

Strategy?

Does the CPL realize this can be both a pro and con? A player making the decision to "hide" because they are up by 2 and want to run out the clock puts themselves in a VERY BAD position because if they are killed they could easily be stomped all over after a single frag.

A great example of this is WCG 2002 USA quals, where Fatality thought that hiding/stalling the game vs. socrates on Q3T2 would definately yield a win. As soon as socrates finally located him (with just a few minutes left), fatality was fragged and was unable to regain control. It was HIS STRATEGIC DECISION to hide, and he paid for it.... ultimately losing a trip to Korea.

Now I can understand that this may detract from gameplay, but that is a part of the game. NOT EVERY GAME IS MADE TO BE AN ACTION PACKED 15 MINUTES OF MAYHEM... in fact, I appreciate it as a strategy even MORE in Painkiller considering it attempts to be a RUN N GUN style game.

I don't understand how you can deem a particular strategy "illegal".

i could hear you say every single word you wrote there.
too much radio for me :(

he always talks in radio style!

Oh man I rememeber that game as the best EVER.
I definitely associate Socrates with that game.

*Search for "THE" T2 demo:)

Same as the ztn game where pow3r hided for 2 and half mins above the stairs. That was awsome.

I believe thats almost 4 years ago. (CPL Cologne perhaps?)


update:
http://cyberfight.org/site/demos/2152/

think this is the one, gonna check it this evening :)

It was longer than 2 and a half, powerK (korean) fraged the opponent once or twice in the first few min and then hid the rest of the game out. The opponent did finally catch on towards the end of the game, but then when he found powerk, pk just killed him! Was rather funny, this lead to ztntourney1 being made because of that gap. (I think it was atomic arena)

word

Yep, and another example like that is the dm2 game between Reload and Timber from the TGi event.

I posted the DemoCast of that match a while ago on pq.de:
click :)

I absolutely agree with this decision. I also think the Greek national footbalteam should have been forced to put in 2 extra strikers when the got ahead 1-0 in the final against Portugal at euro2004!!!

Funny shit this

hahhah agreed. goddamn greeks

My apologies for wining the EURO 2004. We will try not to do it again :PP

oh i dont think you have to try. :P

I know :). Had written the same thing in my post as well, but deleted it, because the post wouldn't sound cocky with that.

This is concerning because it's a rule of discretion. I wouldn't want to be the one who has to make the call on this "unsportsmanlike" rule. There's too many variables involved.

What if he runs around the map and doesn't fire a weapon again? Is that unsportsmanlike? What if he hides for a total of 5 seconds, comes out, moves around, goes back into hiding? Is that unsportsmanlike?

It's going to put a lot of pressure on an admin where it doesn't need to be. The strategy may be boring, but it shouldn't be considered illegal.

are you kidding me...

"Picked up Carmac ammo"

kthx angel

=\

If the cpl wants gaming to be considered a sport, implementing stupid rules with no relation to real sport rules isnt a good idea. Almost all sports with time being a factor its a valid strategy to run out the clock if you are in the lead. The only thing possibly similar is the shot clock in pro/college basketball preventing a team from stalling and passing the ball around for 5 minutes while they are leading. But like wheat said, its more of a disadvantage in DM games than like say basketball to stall since you will lose control and times of armors.

excuse me? there are these suchs rules in the major leagues of many sports, for example the NBA where one of the duties of the referees is to enforce a rule that players can not sit under the basket for over 3 seconds (painted area).

granted this CPL ruling doesn't sound like the greatest rule yet, it needs to be more descriptive, but typical gamers and their oblivion to everything unable to have an open enough mind to comprehend simple bullshit like this being typical of other leagues.

The difference between the rule you're talking about and this one, is that the NBA rule has is specific and more easily judged.

This rule is very vague. For example would I be tossed out if I was camping the LG-YA area on t2, slowly building up my armor by picking up the 4 shards / sometimes getting the 50, but always running when I see my opponent?

In general I have no problem with a rule that makes the game more offensive based, but I have a problem with rules that can't be fairly measured.

first of all, my post wasn't really about the rule itself as i didn't reply to the news bit but to this idiot Feech or whatever and his point that this 'stupid rule' has 'no relation to real sports rules' which is completely false, this does have some relation to it. and bunches of leagues do stupid things all the time. the NBA is a great example. Basically he said this doesn't happen anywhere else, I said Wrong and pointed out an example. The fact that you replied to my post in another way is indicative of the latter point in my next paragraphs.

second, this news post is more like a generalization of the actual rule summing it up that everyone is getting out of hand with. the real specifics and details of the rule and what it entails aren't in here, it's just summing up the rule. But everyone's too ape shit for ggl's peanut prizes, eswc, and a dead old game nobody plays anymore called quake3 to realize this within their mindless(for the most part) anti-CPL bias (someone here even stated the WT is a joke). So fuck it, HATE THE CPL!

and third, i typed "granted this CPL ruling doesn't sound like the greatest rule yet, it needs to be more descriptive". Look, I'm still sane, so i haven't jumped the gun, evacuated the UN inspectors and formulated a blind opinion on it because i don't quite know what exactly it is, because like i said, the actual detail of the rule isn't in this news bit. I've reserved judgement, and find the lack of that here a little pathetic.

because the CPL hate is so strong on this thread, my reply to Beech on a subtopic was mispercieved and ultimately twisted into some kinda reply to the news itself made to look like i'm saying CPL does EVERYTHING RIGHT!.

yea. In 'politics', that's called 'propaganda'. btw this is more of a reply to all the responses i got, and not just you.

Nah, I'm still right, your NBA paint example is completely unrelated to a rule preventing a strategy in running out the time of a game.

no, you're not still right idiot and my example ISN'T totally unrelated to WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

because #1 who the hell ever said this is a rule about preventing a strategy in running out the time of a game? despite the fact that this isn't a REAL RULE and just news about a new rule being added, all it says is to not 'stall' or hide in areas. it is a rule illegalizing unsportsmanlike tactics. THAT is what we are talking about here, not some stupid bullshit you've imagined about "STRATEGY RUNNING OUT THE CLOCK!!".

second what if the ACTUAL rule is basically not allowing you to stand in some discreet remote area for over 30 seconds? Vo0 hid up in that spot for 90 seconds. NINETY seconds of just standing there doing nothing. What if this rule only limited that type of bullshit to a 30 second clock? what's wrong with that? thirty seconds is bad enough, 90 seconds is absurd. I'm sure everybody was at the EDGE of their seat for those 90 seconds watching a computerized game of hide-and-go-seek. You're so much of an idiot that you point out the most significant rule to basketball history that would be exactly like this rule but don't even see it yourself. in basketball there is a 24SEC SHOT CLOCK (HEY! EVEN LESS THAN 30) limiting people to hold on possession of the ball for extended periods so that they go about with the actual goal of the game which is to SCORE POINTS. furthermore they must cross the ball past the half court line within 10 seconds. This isn't just things to speed up the game for the audience and make it more marketable, these are things to UPHOLD THE INTEGRITY of the game. Before this rule teams started taking advantage of that, exploiting it and holding on to the ball doing nothing for huge amounts of time. they would just get a moderate lead and do nothing but pass the ball around not trying to score forever. Nobody including players would like competitive basketball without a 24sec or such shot-clock. So no you're not right, you're completely WRONG.

Third of all-- you originaly said rules like this don't happen in other 'real sports'. my 3 sec painted area example was to point out that other sports leagues do these such things and OUTLAW areas (like what is being done here) or put a TIMELIMIT on certain areas (LIKE WHAT IS BEING DONE HERE).
"Almost all sports with time being a factor its a valid strategy to run out the clock if you are in the lead."
yea, but they enforce LIMITATIONS ie SHOT-CLOCK MORON. this doesn't even actually have anything to do with a defensive strategy running the time out near the end, it's about stalling and hiding ala COUNTERSTRIKE, NOT DEATHMATCH PAINKILLER CPMA. the strategy of hiding up in a roof or some bug somewhere (remember the ztn3dm1 roof bug near lg jumppad that people used to hide up in that was later taken out of ztn3tourney1 for tournament play? guess why they changed the name of the map to TOURNEY...*hint*hint*more professional...) can be done anytime, just like bullying in the painted area for NBA. if that wasn't enforced everyone would just get right under the basket. kinda like if this isn't enfored anyone could just rj to some area and sit there at anytime they see fit. So again no you're not right, you're completely WRONG.


these tactics don't promote sportsmanlike gameplay, let alone a spectator match. It distracts away from the actual real GOAL of the game, TO SCORE FRAGS, like holding on to the ball in basketball denies from the actual real GOAL of the game, TO SCORE POINTS. GET A FUCKING CLUE.

EVEN furthermore, this stuff has been done for a LONG time WITHIN competitive gaming, like my ztn3dm1 example above... outlawing bugs in maps or exploitation of bugs in gameplay. remember bunnyhopping in cs or the flashbang the whole map bug? those were outlawed in all tournies. What about the BFG? how many maps had to be edited or NOT USED to get the gun out for tourney play? HEY NAWRR HAR IF IT'S IN THE GAME ITS IN THE GAME!!!. my goodness. these are FUNDAMENTAL, BASIC rules and concepts that have bounded not just ALL sports but OUR OWN community/competitve gaming for a long time, but years of just basic principle and tradition and progress and just common sense have been completely thrown out and forgotten just because of blind, blind I HATE CPL FUCK CPL PK INSTEAD OF Q3 FUCK PK OMFG WHILE I GO BACK TO MY BF2/AA BULLSHIT THAT REALLY KILLED Q3 IN THE FIRST PLACE AND WORSHIP THE PEANUTS AND PAT ON THE BACK GGL GIVES ME FOR PRIZES.



the comments on this entire thread are just absolutely ridiculous and its just sickening to in a way see the real lemming side of mankind show itself-- even in something more or less trivial to other worldly issues like this. And all i did was try to be reasonable, and look what i get in return. I started off being one of the few reasonable people here withholding assumptions because this wasn't an actual RULE, seeing how it could in fact be a GREAT thing, and i get labeled as a FLAMER, because i deviate from the norm of the 90% of the people here who are actually FLAMING the cpl. That's just ridiculous. And the fact of the matter is this will more than likely turn out to be a legitimate and great rule, not that that outcome would deter any of this incident influencing further the clear bias against the cpl. In actuality in the end the cpl should get a pat on the back for this, but people won't take notice, and this huge 300 idiot comment thread will be remembered as just another sour taste (that THEY made for themselves) in the back of their minds. and the irony of all this is for years everybody complained about cs and chastised the CPL for just that, hiding behind crates and stalling, also pointing out that it is not SPECTATOR FRIENDLY HIDING IN LITTLE AREAS FOREVER. Now the cpl goes completely against that and what happens? Would it be better if they just go back to cs then? the cpl just can't win can they? And wasn't it just like a month ago or something when everybody was complaining about what fatal1ty did to gellehsak by hiding in some spot for so long with JUST a 2 point lead or something? and how 'LAME' and 'UNSPORTSMANLIKE' it was??

Well anyway i guess i figured that since i didn't yet flame, i wasn't going to be labeled something i wasn't. So i decided to indeed, and appropriately-- flame-- the idiots.

Appropriately.

Feesh is totally right, I have watch basketball all my life, the illegal defense technical has no relationship to the CPL rule, in context of what it tries to accomplish or in its legal expression.

And you're still dense. If you have to capitalize, bold, and/or italicize every other phrase that you are spewing, you are probably thinking that you are wrong, and everyone else is right. So typical.

Fair 'nuff.

Relax man. Someone replied to you and you started acting mad and flaming anything and anyone. You forgot to get your pills or what? Show some respect to Quake3 and its players, because it might be old, but that doesn't mean that it stopped being a good game. If wasn't games like doom and quake series, you would be still playing vs the computer ... respect

+ for that, you said what I was thinking :p

you're an idiot.

excuse me? my reply to BEECH is as reasonable as it gets. What does anything you said have to do with what i said? this started because Beech said that this doesn't have relation to 'real sports' where in FACT IT DOES. And I don't need to show respect to a buncha blind morons-- that is one of the greatest troubles of mankind. the people who played quake and doom and the games you mentioned AND quake3 when it came out are for the most part NOT playing anymore, so you don't even make sense there. Regardless that is a non-issue of any of this. Furthermore i've been playing SINCE q2 and think the market is SATURATED with stupid counterstrike-clone bullshit and that more DM games (for example PAINKILER) like q1 need to be made and if done right would be played. Everyone here is OVERREACTING typically and WHY? i stated why, because of blind hate and bias against the cpl, most who have never even tried pk and don't know what the hell is going on, only that it's not 6-year old q3 and that's bad.

Unlike you i haven't jumped the gun on my blind impulses without rationale and made a judgement because this is NOT the actual rule. For that i am a flamer and need pills...

Look, I don't need to take any fucking pills just because you don't like being slapped up side the head with words. you said i flamed anyone and everyone after someone replied to me inside my second post, when it is my most reasonable(and maybe the most reasonable post from anyone) here. are you saying all this flak is not of blind bias against the cpl like i pointed? or by me pointing that out you're saying it's a flame? pointing out the truth is a flame, Great. it always has been to fucking idiots like you. You see, let me help you. this paragraph is a flame. Not anywhere else where i tried to use logic and reasoning. Here I'm flaming you for being fucking stupid.

better yet, #296 sets everything straight, unfortunately for the bubble you live in.

you act like u worked @ cpl

anyway, the rule is stupid and cannot be compared to a team based sport like nba. there are hundreds of players using defensive style, some more other less, but some actually avoid confrontating the enemy when leading. and its ok - cause its a tactic. tis riddiculously stupid to make someone change his playing style
it just doesnt comply with a computer duel game
nuf said

no i dont act like i work for the cpl, no i don't work for the cpl, no this CAN be compared to the nba, no not 'nuf' has been said clown. post #296

That was one of the most retarded thing I've ever read.

Evacuated the UN inspectors? Jumped the gun? Misperceived and ultimately twosted? Propaganda?

If you had any common sense whatsoever you would see that the paint rule has nothing to do with the rule in question regarding a leading player or team running out the game. The shot clock rule does though, as I mentioned earlier. There is no rule in hockey preventing a team from passing the puck around avoiding confrontation to run out the clock or kneeling every down in football (american) and taking as long as the play clock permits to run out the time. Should a football team be forced to pass the ball or go for a run and risk losing the ball because its more exciting to watch and more "fair" to the opposing team? please

who the fuck else am i gonna speak for, sherlock?

haha

554a) - KEEPING THE PUCK IN MOTION
a) The puck must be kept in motion at all times. A team in possession of the puck in its own defending zone shall advance the puck towards the opposing goal except:
- to carry the puck behind his goal once,
- if it is prevented to do so by players of the opposing team, or
- if the team is short handed.
A player beyond his defending zone shall not pass or carry the puck backward into his defending zone for the purpose of delaying the game, except when his team is shorthanded.
For the first infraction, the referee shall assess a:
- Warning
to the Captain of the offending team.
For the second infraction, during the same period, the offending player shall be
assessed a:
- Minor penalty

comment #296, and comment #173 for that matter. know about what you're talking about before you talk about it (hockey, and i guess everything else for that matter), you look like a moron.

ok then give us an example of a more precise rule, like give us the painted zone and the precise timing ? I can't see how this rule can be used in such a game.

just dont pay attention to him, problem solved.

actually to really solve the problem is to throw you off a cliff.

Mt. Everest, preferably.

Mt. Everest doesn't have a cliff per se(three great cliffs, the North Cliff, the East Cliff and the South-west Cliff). Also, it's a mountain.

/me high fives yeltsin

want to join my flame cloud brotherhood? you have potential.

To solve the problem just take your pills.

to solve the problem shut the hell up.

comment #296. Oh it can Easily be used.

Like the 10/30 second rules in basketball :)

10 seconds to get the ball to you opponets side and 30 seconds to make your play ;)

I think it's cool :D

too bad it's not part of the freaking game you're playing...!

And that I don't play in the CPL ;) Point is they seem to try to make it more offensive which I like. More fun to watch.

By game I mean PK. They are getting into the strategy of it, making up absurd rules. How can you be sane and welcome a rule requiring the games be more offensive at the same time?!
edit: LITERALLY.
example
Accaptable, even if bad/unfair/blah: A gameplay rule - player can not stand still for more then 30 seconds.
We get: Global CPL rule - "players to remain competitive and engaged in combat throughout the entire match"

...

you're fucking stupid.

I AM stupid.
But you're way ahead.

#296

Logic.
Get a textbook on that, sorry can't paste one in here.

.

This rule is just plain bad, in its definition and what its trying to prevent. Why not just let the players play the game, noone wants to have to think about what considered to be legal or illegal in the middle of the match.

imagine this to be enforced for CS *harr harr*

scary ;))
ridiculous rule..

what a stupid rule. probably enforced by abit or something because fata lost. :|

sort of agreeing here :)

i think if vo0 hadn't have hid ontop of something that fat couldnt see, i doubt this rule would have happened, but that is down to poor map design. I think if vo0 had simply ran away / avoided fat for 90 seconds, then this rule would not have been made up.

It sucks aswell, is open to too much interpretation. This makes me think that the CPL knows nothing about gaming.

yeah lets ban this in Counter-strike aswell perhaps it makes the game alot more interesting. Goddamn retards

I think games should be played however they are ment to be played ofcourse as long as you don't use cheats or any things like that. You're in a free world, a free area with very few boundaries for your skill and creativity, it shouldn't be palmed in. This what makes it so attractive, every player has his own style, can use his own strengths. The only thing I would forbid is making clear use (or abuse) of flaws in maps that the creator oversaw. For example, when there is a bug in a wall, or an extremely good hidingplace which wasn't meant to be there. Things like that should not be exploited.

But for the rest, the game is made to be played however a person feels like playing it. And it should remain like that.

I think we shouldn't try to make things too perfect, there are alot of things in football that are not perfect by far, still it is a very attractive sport (it's probably more attractive because of all the things you can talk, discuss and whine about, it makes it interesting). Maybe CPL should focus on other things first. Did I hear stakegun?

Couldn't have said it better myself :D

A big mistake IMO from the CPL

I agree too. Bugs in map layout, like if a player grenade-rocketjumped up on the roof of q2dm1 in a tournament to hide away there, should be made illegal to exploit. it would be the best ofcourse if they re-edited the maps to remove such opportunities.

"You're in a free world, a free area with very few boundaries for your skill and creativity, it shouldn't be palmed in."

exactly

Well rules that forbid using map bugs are already in many tournaments.

LOL, I hope this is a joke. It's so vague its ridiculous. Add to that, how often does this actually come into place for this to need a rule?
The CPL really shows here how little they actually know about gaming.

The things that comes into mind about this move's vo0 with hiding on the roof vs fatal1ty in the finals. Also fatal1ty doing similar things, in the past too (the quakecon doom3 game vs daler for example, where he shot the lights and let daler bounce by). Honestly, The few times i've seen this happen, I didnt hear anybody complain about it.
Get a grip The CPL and admit that on this matter you're just in it over your head on this one.

fatal1ty = pwnd

I know. The CPL can run wallhacks for everybody so the players know where their opponent is at all times.

Seriously though, there shouldn't be some sort of official anti-camping rule. It is totally subjective and will be prone to controversy at all future world tour events. However, it should be an accepted practice by the gamers to have a little bit of decency and continue playing without resorting to totally lame tactics. You can still run away if you don't want to get killed...

I agree with the CS suggestions too... :)

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Heh...

Lolish :|

Im confused, why doesn't the CPL get the map and game fixed before implementing this rule. I thought the PK devs were working closely with them? A quick map fix shouldn't take that long to do.

What's next, no hiding behind a box that is X thick in Counter-Strike?

So you want to make a game more attacking.
This sort of thing has a good thing going on in some other sports / games...

Pool - The rules enforce an attacking game, this makes it faster and more interesting from an offensive point of view, however if your a person who likes defensive tactical play then you have to play Snooker instead.
This is a good thing as it has a clear objective and its easy to see when this rule is broken.

Basketball - the half way line clock and shot clock make the game fast paced which can bring on some creative plays when the time is almost out.
This is a good thing as time is a good single measurable variable that you can use to make this rule effective and enforceable.

FPS Duel - To have this sort of rule is a good thing imo as i like attacking games, however, FPS games are very tactically driven. Good tactics can make up for a loss in skill against better players.
15 minutes is a long time for tactics from 2 different styles to cancel each other out, and when one player finally gets the upperhand, its a good thing to see.
The main issue here is how you will measure the rules you state. Will they be automated? how? Will they be manual? who will verify the manual decision and will this be a game stopper while its verified or decided on?

Each map is made for tactical decisions. Look at UT maps, people would hit the top of the map ASAP in most cases and try to dominate from there.
There are choke points, there are powerups in more risky places than other items.
This is unlike the 2 sports i mention above, where the only thing that changes is the venue that it is played. The court is the same, the basket is regulation height, the table is the same size, the same balls are on the table.

The idea of making games more offensive isnt a bad thing, but implement it wrongly (you post above makes me think you will implement it wrongly) and you will see the effect quite rapidly from the players.

ahahahahaha

cpl -$

The CPL is a fucking joke.

but after you realize they got $millions in prizes it bocomes a horror

I realize that. The only reason anyone puts up with their bullshit is BECAUSE they have all that prizemoney.

Pity none of their sponsors appear to read ESR.

someone should direct them to this post showing how popular they are amongst their demographic.

dunno what who did to who, but im guessing it's the same as ztndm1 bug in q3.

Sollution: just fix the map!

If things like these are first brought into the light in a tournament it's not a big deal as most tournaments use double elimination. And if someone really finds some weird camping spot, he might aswell be awarded one map win.

In a computer game, rules should be in the code and not up for discussion.

Yeah, it's just like that bug...

The obvious thing to do is exactly that, fix the map... But NOOO, let's just ban defensive strategies and make all the matches subject to "imparcial" judgement from CPL admins...

Great call!

so a match like between janus and lexer never can happen in pk? it was one of the most exciting demos in q3 i have ever seen when lexer was hiding and janus got him in the last second.

with this decision you take all tactical aspects out of the game in my opinion. every player is arsed to run like stupid around the map to be sure to not to get a penalty for "lame tactics", espaccialy when he plays against fatality.

From a spectator point of view it's a good thing.

If you are unbias towards both players and just watching the game because you enjoy it, then watching a player camped in the same spot for 2 minutes isn't very spectator friendly.

From a player's point of view its a bad move. The ones I feel sorry for are the guys who panic. Imagine playing someone far better than you, but you get a lucky break, you make some really nice shots, but as the game gets close to the end you start to break under the pressure. You have low health and this guy is chasing you like a bitch, and you can't camp the last 10 seconds because your not allowed, so you get stomped on :)

Rule needs a hell of a lot of refining before being used in my opinion.

I totally disagree, a spectator non-gamer will understand immediatly what happens, see the guys going around, be afraid or happy and smile.

As a gamer I like to see those sort of things, I only remember 1 action at the Doom 3 quakeCon final, should I say which ?

Same for Janus vs lexer, I absolutely forgot who played but i won't forgot the action.

Plus those things are done 1 time, and this first time is always so fun... vo0 v Fat, lexer v Janus, Fat v Daler... 3 times same thing, 3 times i f****** really enjoyed this.

1st time is a great idea and then after players know the tricks, and this don't anymore is unsportsmanlike tactics.

Their is 2 very dangerous thing is the CPL statement :
-A politicaly correct way of playing
-This judgement done by somebody...

ffs, stick a mod in that makes a player beep every X seconds after something they dont like occours

but dont leave it up to "judges"

The way this rule is formulated, it virtually reads: The CPL reserves the right to decide the winner of a particular match.

Hopefully all of the players involved and promiment members of the community (where's Carmac on this one? :P) will voice enough disappointment to have the rule retracted or seriously revised.

In my opinion, 15 minutes of FPS action is pretty fast paced as it is. The sport is already off-putting for potential mainstream spectators because of its pace. Regardless, the tension created by long periods without a change in the score is worth just as much, if not more than a rapid succession of frags.

Let's hope the CPL listens to constructive criticism for once.

The way this rule is formulated, it virtually reads: The CPL reserves the right to decide the winner of a particular match.

This makes me think of upcomming betting sites where you can bet on games with real money. Then a rich daddy or maybe the mob (? :P) giving some "extra" money to CPL so theire man wins the game :D

I watch to many movies :(

WOW. CPL proves once again that their understanding of how competitive games are actually PLAYED at a top level, is non existant. CPL has absolutely no understanding of games or gamers, and only understands how to make money (even tho their world tour is flopping).

What a joke CPL, what a joke.

Competitive gaming can never be competitive when such factors are added.

fuckin fatasslickers with a trademark sign on top. How come this issue wasnt addressed immediately after the gellehsak-fatal1ty incident?

I can see the headline now:

"Drama in Sweden as Vo0 takes DM-Sacred final 345:212"

I think the wording of the statement clearly highlights the absurdity of the decision. "....the Cyberathlete Professional League (CPL) expects all players to remain competitive and engaged in combat throughout the entire match...". So players have to stand toe to toe for 15 minutes and fight continuously or else they get disqualified? That's what you appear to be suggesting. Claiming it's "unprofessional" is ridiculous too, since i can't imagine anything more professional than utilising the most effective strategy for securing victory. "Unsportsmanlike" is just a very arbitrary interpretation of it. One could almost argue it's unsportsmanlike not to use the most effective tactic, since you would be patronising your opponent by doing otherwise. The difficulty you have in providing robust, precise justification for the decision shows how impractical the ruling is and also highlights how unenforceable it is likely to be.

It also shows how unproductive the CPL's relationship with PCF has proven to be, thus undermining the main reason for choosing Painkiller in the first place; ie because the developer and publisher promised consistent support. If their relationship was good, the CPL could easily just tell PCF to fix any areas of tournament maps that are subject to these problems and no additional rules would need to be implemented. However, i imagine the CPL are reluctant to call on a small developer short on resources and a publisher allegedly in financial trouble who have failed to deliver on many of the items requested pre-World Tour by the CPL.

Secondly, you're creating a situation where admin discretion potentially plays as great a role as player skill, which is a problem many sports suffer from, while gaming is fortunate to be largely immune to it due to the vast majority of decisions being determined by a flawless, impartial computer. Admin discretion also leaves the CPL vulnerable to accusations of bias. In fact, the timing of this sudden clampdown on hiding/defensive play leaves the CPL open to such criticism, since Fatal1ty has hidden numerous times before with no resultant action from the CPL, yet when Vo0 does it there's an immediate response.

On the CPL forums, i read a comment from one of your staff made after CPL Brazil where he complained about this trend for players hiding and expressed his resolve to tackle it after discussing the issue with his colleagues. It's pretty amusing to think of all the great minds at the CPL getting together and furrowing their brows about what to do, and this being the conclusion they were most satisfied with.

Most of that I could have said was said before in this thread, so I will only mention two things. Being a judo referee myself, I know that in all sports there is a trend to go away from arbitrary decisions towards as much objectivity as can be obtained. Never the other way around. I think the reasons behind it are so obvious that I need not elaborate on this. I will only add that I find this news item utterly baffling.

The second issue. This is directed at some people in the audience here: why do you keep waiting for Carmac whenever there is something you dislike about the CPL? "OMG new CPL ruling Carmac should write something." Is it that hard to write a column here or a forum post on the CPL forums about this or, for instance, PKTV? I highly doubt that.

We enjoy "Carmac vs Angel" as much as we enjoy "Vo0 vs Fatal1ty" :P

You just are our true CPL-bashing hero Carmac, deal with it.

My comment was just a little joke as you have always hated CPL. ot that they don't deserve hate, but...

But what?

[Mob boss Paul Vitti] You're good!

A quick note about the basketball shot clock from an avid basketball fan.

The shot clock was introduced not for the vague purpose of "making the game more offensive." It was implemented because in basketball a team could literally dribble the ball for the last 10 minutes of the game and the other team couldn't get the ball back without fouling them (giving them 2 free throws). Teams started abusing this rule to the point where whichever team led at the beginning of the 4th quarter often times would dribble for the entire quarter (15 minutes), and the other team was screwed. Basketball games were ending like 40-36 and the team with 36 points would be helpless for the last 20 minutes of the game.

The shot clock was needed because the rules of basketball at the time gave the team behind no way to come back whatsoever.

The issue of hiding in gaming is COMPLETELY different. As wheat pointed out, and as someone pointed out with janus/lexer: some of the most exciting games are when one player chooses to hide with a small lead and the other player attempts to chase them down. Fatal1ty lost to Vo0 because he was unaware of the hiding spot; that is no one's fault but his own. He was completely capable of finding him and killing him; nothing was hindering his ability at any point.

The only discrepency I see is the issue of one player being more knowledgable on a map than another. But, that's just a fact about the game we all play. The only way I could imagine straightening that out would be to outlaw certain hard-to-reach spots on maps for hiding. To make some blanket-statement rule that vaguely defines hiding and non-combat is simply retarded. Just when we thought they couldn't get any more disconnected from reality, they go and do this... Such a shame...

Pretty much all sports have to be 'patched' at some stage with a rule or equipment change when a particular tactic becomes so effective that it threatens to destroy the spectacle of the game. In PK's case, the flaw of hiding spots that enable the player to get well out of harm's way can be patched by cordoning those areas off, and the CPL are being fools by not pursuing that solution. I would love to see how they would have dealt with the huge amount of running that results from the shield gun had they picked UT2004. They couldn't remove it, as that would conflict with their principle of games being played the way the developer intended them. As someone pointed out on the CPL's forums, in a sense they're doing that here, preventing people from accessing spots on maps that PCF left open.

Sport Exampe) Baseball: In professional baseball (USA), you are required to use a wooden bat at all times. In the past, they used to let you use a metal one, for a brief time I believe, but the ball flew way too far, way too often.

Imagine what would have happened if the CPL were in control of MLB back then and decided they didn't want to exclude metal baseball bats.

"CPL Announces new rule: You are not allowed to hit the ball out of the stadium. The ball must always be put into play because this makes a more action packed game."

the team that made stalling with the ball famous was North Carolina in the NCAA.

Go UK!

Unidentified sources say this photo was taken soon after the annoucement was made.

:DDD

Fatal1ty disagrees as much as everyone else with this rule i'm sure.

hashahah

ROFL.
how about they enforce this in the CS games so it's less of a snoozefest.

i second that. haha

rofl, obviously Fatal1ty's loss had something to do with it, the fact that CPL would actually enforce this is a joke in itself, I don't understand how CPL can be the "premiere gaming competition" or even be considered as "Professional" when it's rule seems to be merely made by someone who has never played a deathmatch game in their life. Everyone might as well go back to online play.. OGL still up and running? Because honestly this is rediculous. lol.

While this rule came about after Fat's loss I believe in the end this actually hurts Fatality the most in the end. Since he seems unable to win against top players w/o this trick. Obv. the rule sucks.. maybe Daler should start playing again since all he does is charge anyway? =]

Wait until they pass a rule that renders cess unsportsmanlike then :P

Dude give fat a break and stop wit the "He cannot compete with the best" he was awesome in Brazil, if you are gonna knock a guy then at least make sense.
He was all over the best Painkiller in the world on his best map.
If your gonna hate then don't be corrupt about it.

but hes done it so often, someone should put together a vid with all his hiding moments.

It would be too long to watch ;)
In ut2k3 he was able to run and hide for more than 13minutes of match only to do 1-2 frags in the end and again back to hidding :P

so lol. post your music suggestions for the hiding and fat vid here

Normaly I would take some classical music for this, but there is one track that seems like especialy made for this one.

zero real1ty - It's Gotta Be Fatal1ty // download

ps. as the ending of the movie I would add scene from ESWC where Zulg is shouting "fatality" like in Mortal Kombat after winning against fatal. Or when he hands him his ZulgPad ;)

That was almost as bad as the DL rate:)

now, i'm not a CS player. that stated does this rule apply to CS? cause if it does, wouldn't like 90% of the gameplay be unsportsmanlike? please correct me if i'm wrong as i've only watched a few CS matches, but doesn't one side defend for about 2-3 minutes with little to no action and in the final moments there's a huge push?
:o

cs isn't a deathmatch game

indeed there was a game for gameboy once, the title speaks for CS

http://www.1stvideo.com/GB/Boxxle.jpg

please correct me if i'm wrong as i've only watched a few CS matches, but doesn't one side defend for about 2-3 minutes with little to no action and in the final moments there's a huge push?

You're wrong.

hehe, i just realized that. gg not reading ^_^

A good way to implement this rule would be this.

If a judge feels like the game is becoming to defencive well he can

hit a button and both players spawn back to like if it were the beginning but keeping the score they had.

They lose their armor and theres no advantage gain for either player.

the one who had armor has to find the other guy and shoot him before a time limit.

Lets say 45 seconds or both player respawn regardless of the energy

I think its like ufc fighting if the guys dont fight the judge al make em fight.

For these games to get potential in the future i think they have to reach a bigger audience.(apart korea)

Unexperience players who lets say would watch a match with the guy doing nothing would find it boring and probably would not buy the game.

they want people who dont play the game to be exited about the frags so they buy the game and it makes a larger community.

wich gives you your money prizes.
they dont want a small pro gamer community who saw the "great"tactics behind the minutes hiding for the win.

its my opinion anyways from their point of view that is.

Nope, bad. There's no good way to implement any rule that is even somewhat similar to this one.

CPL is a joke.

almost wizdumb like

This rules is such a non-sens for gaming since it is a strategy's choice from the player to run away or not.
I think the example of wheat with fat vs socrates on T2 is a very good example aswell. For CPL, this is "an unprofesionnal behaviour to runaway".
Here is the "profesional" point of view of CPL:
Not_running_away->more_spectacular_shows->more_money
Money > Gamers expectations

This is a step back for gaming here if this rules is applied.

if there gonna put it there you might aswell find one wich is not to ridiculous.

Im not saying the rule i said above is a good one.

I'm just saying it's a alternative to what is going to be implemented anyways.

I agree its not a good thing but...
Between having to debate on a poor decision lets say you were winning 11-10 and they give the victory to the other guy "implying you used bad tactics wich in essence is badsportmanship"Id prefer having a respwan kinda time limit thingy has to giving a Human judge with no logic understanding of intuition in these kinda games the benifit of the doupt as to what i was really attempting.

If they make the rule with a human deciding.People are gonna lose it.

If its computerize then spawning when you havent seen your opponent in 45 seconds is not all that bad compared to a "human"decision that is

That is my opinion from my point of view anyways

Haha! ROFL @ CPLOL

CPL loves their Fatal1ty

The CPL had good intentions here, but they did not solve the problem in the correct way. They probably didn't think it through clearly and didn't have enough time to alter the map before the next event. Also, their writer didn't make it clear. Seems their only real purpose is to prevent a repeat of Vo0-Fatal1ty at the upcoming event.

We'd all be better off giving them constructive criticism instead of jumping on the anti-CPL bandwagon. The CPL is not out to fuck us over.

And for the CPL people... you don't have to suck the spectators dicks to get them to like pro-gaming. Pro-gaming kicks ass and it will succeed because it kicks ass. Now if you want pro-gaming to succeed, you need to fix the spectating problem. As it is now, it's too much of a pain in the ass for the common person to spectate.

Yes, they seriously look like they are trying to fuck us over. They pick CS as their main game, cutting out Q3 from their lineup, then they pick PK as their World Tour game, then they do this. I mean, personally I think that's exactly what the CPL are trying to do.

A lot of what's been said here is quite constructive.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing players just camping on opposite ends of the map for half their match in protest at the next event. :)

This almost cries for a poll, not?

A poll with 1 possible answer?

Now this sounds like a rule made by some1 who really lives and understands deathmatch gaming... NOT! :/

CPL is like a hot, horny and faithful girlfriend that farts in public.

she actually shits in the middle of a shopping mall

looool

Actually, CPL is like our girlfriend ... doesn't know shit about games. Lets send some flowers to Angel

seems like cpl doesnt like the fact that voo wins each time
maybe they common sponsor or so

next time they'll try to make voo having an "accident"
allways check where your food come from :)

how stupid

hahahaah ::)
lol @ cpl
rotfl @ george
lmao @ angel

Why not make certain hiding spots illegal instead of slamming the whole LONG TIME strategy thats been around for years out the window.

There are some wicked spots in PK that you can get too and noone would ever see you no matter how hard they look. Like I said, why not just make certain hiding spots illegal, delaying time at the end of a match has been around for ages.

ROTFL!

Now everybody know that CPL sux hard

I Think that they should play the entire tour in a map like 2box4, so that noone can hide. Should be fun ( * not * )

why not each stop every player has one randomly picked finger broken

ON OFF ON OFF ON OFF ON OFF ON OFF PIGFACEMAN!

trolled :<

perhaps implements maps that are simple squares, with instagib rifles - instakills.

So no rules needed, just 15 Minutes of panggg pangg panggg

Isn't PK instagib already ?

be gone cpl
be gone with the wind

Lol now you know how all the cs players feel when valve decides to change something completely stupid that affects gameplay.

classic case of people identifying the wrong cause of the problem.

the real issue here is the maps. if you don't want people to hide, don't make it possible.

imho this is a big step back in pro gaming. instead of trying to get better pro maps made, they add in rules to limit the player's actions.

reminds me of how the (some)americans decided to nuke saddam when it was really osama who wrecked their precious towers:/

you are an idiot

lol yea seriously

Yea lol you're right lol yea. Americans would never do something stupid like that.... waiiiiit a minute !

because you're clearly the cream of intelligence. shut the fuck up cunt.

errrrrrrr. well done vinz.

ty

This also includes hiding in locations not normally accessible or visible during standard game play (via normal running/jumping).

Why don't they just classify these locations as map bugs, and then punish players who exploit these bugs on a "don't exploit map bugs" rule?

This rule is too vague. I wouldn't be surprised that vo0 will be disqualified in a next event just because they are unsatisfied with his dominance in the game. Face it, theCPL wants fatality to win, just because he, as an American, is much more marketable...

new sportsmanship rule:
players must now share guns and armour or face disqualification

Like other users said, fix the map og make a "dont abuse map bugs" rule instead, with all the specific bugs being told to all players.
This is way too vague.

If they wont allowe PK players to camp the roof they shouldnt allow any kind of boost in CS

yeah truw but if they dont want u to camp roof. why not have a "no camping the damn roof you noobs" rule. instead of the "unsportsmanship" rule. :(

rofl!

what's the point in playing duel with this shit of rules? just play fucking rocket arena.

I can and I cannot see CPL's POV on this.
What vo0 did was pretty lame, but if it is in the game then it can be used.

If you look at this years snooker championships (I don't really watch snooker) but Peter Eddon was getting owned by Rocket Ronnie, so Peter, played a REALLY SLOW game on purpose, knowing that Ronnie excels when the game is played quicker.
The result was Peter came back game after game and beat Ronnie.

But there is a problem, with most sports there are a set group of rules, you can never have this with a game becaue each level is different and there are bugs in games.

A smarter move would be to edit the tourney map files and REMOVE the proble areas, or prevent people from rocket jumping onto the roof.
The CPL thing with vo0 was funny, you can hardly call it typical vo0 can you, so it was more of laugh than anything else, but instead off CPL playing god and laying out a very fine rule, they need to edit the map with the problem areas.
It would not take 2 minutes and if someone sends me a packet of love hearts and a curly wurly I'll do it myself.

you better realise that or you are heading for wipeout:)

what vo0 did wasnt lame. only time hes ever done it, fat does it in every game, ever. it was kinda a piss take. served fat right tbh. and dout vo0 woulda ever done it again

kinda bias and not entirely founded opinion there

it's all about opinion; i'd SAY it was not lame at all. and i'd THINK if you all knew more about the situation, you would SAY the same.

im just trollin the troll tbh

ololololol ON OFF ON OFF AHAA PIGFACE! UR WRONG HE OWNZ U HHAHHAHAH FEAR HIM!

and vo0 didnt use it to beat a player of superiour skill, he was already winning.

hahahaha. if the game cpl choose(pk) was better designed, this rule wouldnt be needed. ban fatality? ha

ban pk AND fatality.

ah, fuck. just ban cpl :-)

btw anyone here plays qw? just imagine what would cpl assholes say if they saw some of qhlan dag vs griffin finals :-)

im not into qw heavily but it would be a great choice of pro game, with all the clients that provide improved graphics which would be perfect for spectators. mvds which the server can provide and qizmo. it would be pretty dandy. retexturing and such might be a problem tho.

You can get 24bit textures for maps here: http://maps.quakeworld.nu/

well i meant the textures with different clients and people being able to use their own textures and sounds. suppose you just let them use the textures/sounds with the client or the default textures.

You dont get it. Most people nowdays use ezquake and fuhquake and you can play with any textures you want on both clients. Client is just an .exe file

yes i know, i meant many would object to texture changing being allowed if it did turn pro

For no good reason. People can play soccer in different-shade glasses, right? So whats the deal. It's not like re-texturing makes them see-thru.

I can also run Windows 98 in 32 bit colors, but that doesnt make it look good :)

Bad analogy. (Windows sucks, where-as QW is awsum)

I beleive you're talking about those dm2 games with Griffin and dag. The problem is that dm2 is just a shit map for serious tournaments. dm2 is only good when 2 ppl play +forward for 10 min.

sif dag plays +forward in *any* map nowadays.

demo?

this is good example, qhlan4 finals, third map (dag won dm6 and griffin dm4): http://www.challenge-tv.com/index.php?mode=de...demo=15945

From my POV, the biggest problem is that the CPL is trying to cover for some gamedesign / leveldesign flaws by enforcing morale rules over the players. Get the maps cleaned from such hideout, like what they did with the hole in the roof of ztn, and you won't have to look stupid in front of your consumers (yes, consumers).

Agreed

Vo0 might have been (ab)using a map bug here, but this rule is way to vague.

I personally understand the actions the CPL wants to take here, making the game faster, and thus more interesting.

In fact, they're experimenting with this in soccer as well. At the 20- FIFA world cup they introduced the rule that if a player kicks away the ball after the referee stopped the game, he receives a yellow card.

I also wonder how the CPL comes up with these kind of rules. Are they just made up ad hoc, or are they discussed thouroughly before implementation? On second thought, that might be a question we all know the answer to :)

In fact, they're experimenting with this in soccer as well. At the 20- FIFA world cup they introduced the rule that if a player kicks away the ball after the referee stopped the game, he receives a yellow card.

Huh? This rule has been in effect for about 15 to 20 years.

no

i mean that if a foul is made, and a player kicks the ball away or picks it up to stall the free kick, he will receive a yellow card...

this stalling happens a lot actually, and i'm really curious if this rule would work. It will make the whole game a lot faster and more attractive..

As I said, this rule has been in effect for maaaany years already. Check the FIFA rules.

What you seem to be saying is that they are enforcing this rule very very strictly at this particular tournament.

Cloud ur post is really intelligent. And ur right that the rule has some relation with sports.

But the actions from the CPL are really strange and fatal1t1e minded and I don't like an organisation so (semi) openly protecting one gamer.

Okay maybe (for the CPL) he embodies pro gaming with his own clothing/mainboard and that shit, but that doesn't mean that he's better then anyone else. And if mister Wendell doesn't like to be beaten and get a 2nd place then he shouldn't play because VoO was better this time. (was the first time he was within the reach of 1st place in the WT tho)

well its important to make the game look good/interesting/exciting for the sponsors, so i can understand why they want to change something, but this is just to vague =)

I dont understand CPL at all. There is nothing more boring than match which is only about constant charging and attacking. The most hilarious matches to watch are the ones where players actualy use their brains.

This only shows that CPL guys must be on kids gaming level. Any player that understand competitive gaming know that this is just boring, and any inteligent spectator without experience understand that as well. Only little kid who started to play games and cant play with the head would made such conclusion like that rule.

With that one Im happy that CPL besides WT doesnt exist in europe. On the other hand I still cant belive that this statement is real, cause its simply too ridiculous.

so sweden, spain, germany and uk arent europe?

hiding is boring and doesnt require a brain.

Read the original post again.

i c, oops, dentist ok.

This also includes hiding

what? i misread the europe cpl bit, but the bit about charging implys its good to hide because it's not charging thus the players use their brains to hide, then you say this rule is bad.

Hiding in a map bug is bad, it takes no brains to hide in such a way. However this rule is saying that u must

remain competitive and engaged in combat throughout the entire match.

Which is ridiculous.
That is what people are complaining/laughing about.

Exactly.
Most of major tournaments already have rules forbiding use of map bugs. CPL didnt had one, and when someone used bug they made dumb rule that is simply against any real competition.

Honestly I cant find anything exciting in match that is all about rushing into opponent. It would be like CSers says that games like q3 and ut are brainless shooters.

so just because the game is fast its brainless, such crap

I dont have anything against fast pace, but rushing all the time at your opponent is just plain stupid.

CPL already has a rule about map exploits/bugs, the problem here is that the roof could hardly be considered a bug.

if it was designed on purpose, then its a fine place to camp and there should be no whine. if it wasnt, then its a bug.
its not complicated.

\map test_bigbox

hahaha

holy "wack rules" batman, they seem to be crazy...

btw. if somebody is still playing in old UT, I recommend reading topic about certain match (link), and watching demos from it (great ones).

cant find the demos :O

I uploaded them to my slow ftp :P
download

Agony, Liandri and Turbine as decider. I recommend especialy Liandri as it was main reason of discussion about hidding. But even on Agony where score was high are some nice to watch actions.

Thanks, but that really is very slow. Are you sure there's no other link? I tried the UT1site FTP but it seemed to be down.

I think the player should be hooked up to some wires.
everytime he violates the rule, he gets an electro shock...

that´ll teach them....

yeah players on the next event should go on strike! just log in the game and dont play at all untill they remove the rule aheahea

Poor rule (especially knowing how poor Frank Nucchios judgement is).

Why not specify that you are not allowed to hide on the roof on this specific map, if what Voo did offends the powers at CPL so much? Why introduce a rule that is so vague that the CPL are bound to fuck things up along the line?

I do however think that mapbugs (abuse) should be penalized.
But not hiding/camping when you're in a 2 frag lead and about 15 secs left till end. that is very very stupid, BAD move CPL.

kinda ahahahomglolwtf

Dumb rule. Just exclude Fatal1ty from the tour, since he's the only player that does it all the time. Saves a lot of hassle.

i agree with what cpl intend to do , but thats impossible to achieve, deny certain types of strategy, then u'll start to deny more and more , a non objective rule is not a rule, like voo said its too vague to be a rule, hiding running happens in everygame, and theres no way to prevent it.

ban the shield gun in ut2k4 next, then we can start talking.

why do you guys give a flying f00k about it? It's cpl, it concerns pk and it's so stupid that even bush jr would laugh his ass of

You dont know the power of taktic and strategy...

9% m8

This rule is too vague, rendering it useless. What will stop a player accusing the other the moment he goes a bit more defensive?
Wheat pretty much summed it up at the first page. Strategy decisions do not give players unfair advantages, they can just lose or win the game for you depending on how well you decided, i thought this was obvious?
There is money on the line, huge amounts compared to many tourneys and games before, CPL should understand there is a difference between hiding and playing smart
Hell, they could atleast SPECIFY this rule so it might sound less stupid?

funny how no CPL representative has commented back on this while they always have their smart talk ready usually.
owned?

Cpl made this stupid announcement to get some interesse back? If this was the goal they succeeded. (220 post so far)

Better would be to get the interesse with a good tour with a good game, gtv :) , and so on...
not by beeing so stupid that everyone talks about.

A sad day for pro gaming if this "rule" get enforced. The zealot who came up with this rule has no idea what gaming is about, CPL should consider hiring people who actually have some knowledge of the scene. Comparing this to NBA 24 sec rule is absurd. Fuck you CPL.

you guys dont know even a bit how much i'd like to see players boycoting next CPL WT spot ^^

*** JUST IN ***
*** CPL RULES ***

q3 rules

#1 no camping, strategising

#2 no whoring of armours, thats just gay.

#3 the bfg is will replace the rocket launcher

#4 no spamming of smillies


The cpl are being silly here.

The future of esports is when one of us wins the lotto and shows the cpl how its done. By setting up a league and competition by gamers for gamers. And not by fat cat monopolising bastards.

its funny, the CPL is the only corp that is able to get over 225 replies in a few hours ^^

indeed, takes a special(ly retarded) corp to come up with something REALLY absurd to generate more then 200 "lol" and "fu" comments in a day...

this rule even tops

graphics = gameplay

in terms of .. lets call it .. interest

Yea, let's make the game easier understandable for the MTV audience ;x

http://forums.thecpl.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...=000343;p=

The most recent stupid thing to come out of the CPL

im sure it wont be the last

CPL is a joke.

yeaaaa long and not funny

Guys, at the end of the day what the f**k is the point in stressing your dislike over the rule. When the CPL says jump, you pro gaymers say how high. None of the gamers participating will voice thier opinions anyway of fear of getting dumped by munoz and co. The only ppl voicing thier opinions are the ones who

a. don't play the game and
b. don't even play in the CPL

Anyways, the CPL gotta please sponsors not the gamers. Sheesh, you should all know this by now.

idd

yes what the "f**k" is the point stressing our dislike over rules we disapprove of. Not everyone accept flawed regulations they dislike like walkovers never voicing their opinions, although that might suit yourself.

Anyways, the CPL gotta please sponsors not the gamers. Sheesh, you should all know this by now.
No, the sponsors wont be pleased if the gamers aren't pleased. It's the circle of life, hakunamatata.

What if the CPL was to institute a rule that you were strongly against?

The point of stressing our dislike for the rule is to show that the players, the ones responsible for bringing the excitement and spectators to the game, are unhappy, and rightfully so. It's ludicrous to think that the people's opinions mean nothing, especially when these people are players who bust their ass day in and day out to become better at what they enjoy.

Basically, the CPL is penalizing players for being innovative, thus finding better and more efficient ways to beat their competition. These rules are being created by people who don't even play at a professional level, nor do they know the ins and outs of the game being played.

I wonder if I could shift the rules to my favor just by having my own signature motherboard and/or video card.

I wonder if I could shift the rules to my favor just by having my own signature motherboard and/or video card.

no, you would also need to bend before angel and spread your legs.

Exactly... looked what happened to ]km[ when we asked why CPL dropped Q3 for CS at the last minute a few years back. We got BANNED for a few months.

-]km[wat

so basicly CPL's view of a pro gamer is someone that has good reflexes and is useless for other things... I gues pk2 will be a 2D reaction game....

Sounds like an improvement at any rate.

I woke up today and seriously thought that I dreamed that CPL made this rule because I didn't know anyone could be so stupid. Then I clicked the thread and it was real :/

Wow

hahaha

Someone should put together a well composed article of comments and thoughts from the majority of the top esports players, across the different games. Quake/UT/PK etc aboout how bad this rule is and why it should not be used. Players that have attended/won CPL events would be best.

Let them have a read and if they don't catch on they need a reality check. I still amuses me that they have respectable players along with CPL WT winners posting in their forums about how wrong the rule is and how to solve it yet they still go against them.

The day the CPL start doing stuff for gamers as apposed for themselves and sponsors is the day eSports will make great strides.

With the amount of events each year and event feedback, you would think all event hosts would of caught on and started using the best of the best systems, rules and regulations but they always fuck up somewhere along the line.

Just checked Skint's link and read this.

8.00c Keep talking to a minimum and to a reasonable volume. There should be no communication with someone who is competing.

Another big cplol. All I could hear over TSN were CS players screaming after each round, very annoying.

they make this rule, but no rule after lollysak threw the chair... interesting tbh

LOL, this is a joke right?
have a problem with some bug in a map, so fix the map or remove it from the map list but "don't camp" or "don't hide" or "don't run when you'r winning"???? come on, this is DM 1v1
CYBERATHLETE "PROFESSIONAL" LEAGUE? This isn't the first time that CPL makes an 1v1 Tourney... wtf?

forgot to mention, unlike past events, this WT is a major step towards the growth of competitive gaming, and everything these top players do is setting precedents for the new players who watch them.

catenaccio anyone ?

as a competitor, im not too worried about actually being called out while im playing because im running to an area to get better cover from my opponent when hes in control, but its more the fact that this rule clearly states that i could be dq'd for just that.

another thing id like to point out, is that fatality has done this to me, and other people, numerous times at CPL events, and nothing was ever mentioned. surprise surprise, the player everyone least expects to do it... does it. everyones eyes immediately glue to fatality's and voo's screens...

... wait, they were paying attention?

thats right. the thing i find surprisingly ironic about this whole situation is that im sure the cpl intended this rule to be put into place to make the game more fast paced and in continuing motion (in their words, competitive). what they didnt see happen during that final though, was that everyone was in suspense waiting to see what would happen next. people were watching both screens enjoying what was taking place, my nerves were literally shot, wondering what voo would do (of course i have to hope my teammate wins, and i feel the same nerves for his games as i would myself if i were in that situation). would he jump off and move away, knowing the chances of fatality starting to look in unexplored places were constantly increasing? would he stay up there to squeeze out more seconds? what if fats finds him and gets a kill, or worse, a spawn run because of voos lack of armor/hp and fats having gone through the map all tanked out by now? i just remember sitting there in awe as to what could potentially unfold. eventually fatality found him, and everyone was again wondering what would now happen to voo in suspense keeping close eyes on the game more than one normally would even for a final. i dont think ive ever seen people so into the game as a spectator than this one because of what voo did. it was the perfect climax to the whole final.

its moments like those that the world tour needs to help boost the interest level of the gamers, before they try to force an unknowledged audience to it.

just my 2c.

and forget my lack of grammar/whatever. im too tired to care :)

9% m8

there's no reason you can't keep looking for more kills at the end of close games...you might run which is okay when you're low on health or whatever, but i see no reason to hide if you're in the lead. you just proved you can frag with this guy, so play smart and keep moving.

sometimes good to do something totally unexpected/(arguably unlogical) :]

Forgetting about the stake gun, aren't we?

remember that here is money at stake (hm... stake.... fuck). it's downright stupid risking to loose map control and get spawnraped when you are in the lead. other player should worry how to get back in the game, why would somebody who is leading risk his win to entertain spectators.

fuck, what spectators? pktv? so lol.

boycott!

this is not good. how is cooller supposed to win?

He won't be able to use "¦]" spam either :(

well, gaming has officialy become tough sport.

;D

Personally I think its brilliant, All forms of Warfare is based on deception. It should be allowed. Evasive play is purely tactical.

Especially in 2005.

damn I miss all the CPL fun : /