Ty for your review and pictures.

It's not a review!,!,!

I meant feedback and pictures :P.

i bought an FK some months ago and used it for maybe 2 days.
Reasons why i went back to Logitech "The Rock" g400:

-nonsensical dpi steps (450 is fine, 1150 is not (should be 900) and 2300 (too high)
-450 and 1150 dpi steps appear to have some sort of input lag (especially the 450 step) because they are scaled down from the 2300 step (silly imo)
-450 appears to be 500+ cpi, 1150 = 1200+ and 2300 is over 9000

it seemed like a nearly perfect mouse to me before i tried it... its small and light (lighter than g400), has low LOD and a decent shape, aswell as side buttons wich I appreciate. Also doesnt require software wich is always a plus imo. But zowie totally fucked up the dpi step values and input lag, wich is arguably the most important thing on a mouse (at least for me).

So my question is, did they change sensor/dpi values/something or is it just the shape and name (aka pulling a zowie AM turns into yellow aka zowie FK type of thing)?

I've never been to much of a tech guy. I think you kind of get held up too much on dpi and input lag.. honestly it's not noticeable to the human brain (Not trying to be rude, just my opinion)
As for anything about the 400-450 dpi I wont comment. I have used 400dpi mice since 1998 and wont ever change. I like the low dpi for outside of game.

I do not believe the sensor or dpi values are different. They all feel the same, switches sound and feel the same. As for the shape change I do believe its a minor change to the AM. I noticed the AM would slip out of my hand( I did have white gloss, but regardless of that) I Think its an improvement. There are multiple ways to hold this mouse, all of which feel comfortable and firm. I don't really feel like there is a "loose" way to hold this mouse. In general I always feel very much in control.

Ball? If so I love you

if its not noticeable to the human brain then why do i notice it?

cg_placebo 0.076

so its placebo when i notice lag and then i see that everyone else does too

Some people notice things that aren't there because they've convinced themselves the differences are there.

Some are influenced and convinced by what others say. The placebo can be transferred from one person to the other.

Plenty of people feel nothing at all.

The fact that person A experiences a similar placebo to person B does not make that perception a legitimate one.

It is likely that the input lag that can be tested for the mouse is within the margin of error, making it practically void. It is also possible that your computer configuration is producing the lag, not the mouse. Perhaps you're looking for lag and will convince yourself it's there if it's actually not or is too imperceptible to be noticed. Perhaps you read what this 'everyone' is experiencing and convinced yourself it's there.

Unless the mouse is tested with some equipment, this is all anecdotal evidence with no control group, without isolation, with no scientific basis, and open to a lot of human error.

There is a reason medical trials are double-blind. These are not medical trials, I'll grant you that, but simply saying "I feel input lag and other people online (all of different capabilities, reaction times, experience, different computer setups, etc.) do to, therefore it is there!" is not a solid conclusion, either.

its probably the stiffer mouse buttons, not input lag. just get used to it.

I soldered omrons into my zowie fk, so thats clearly not the problem

playing on 1024x768 @ 160hz, the input lag is pretty obvious to me on 477 dpi vs 2388 dpi

so use the highest dpi setting and 3/11 in windows instead of 6/11?

still havent read any conclusive proof that the FK has major input lag hindering gaming performance.

ps; i read some post from syncerror i believe, about how its best to use 250fps for 120hz screen, and 120fps for 144hz screens(not sure where that puts you with 160hz)
something to do with syncing up the netcode/engine bluntly put, cant recall more ;p

Why u not use 2300 CPI and ybe done with it?

because its too high for me, i need something around 800 dpi or at most 1600. Can't play properly with anything higher, especially 2k + :(

why cant you play properly?

lol

too much high dpi = harder to control the mouse.
for me to use 2300 dpi i would need a big ass monitor with a giant resolution (and by giant i mean something higher than 2048x1536) and even then i'd prolly not like it.

believe it or not most players dont use such high dpi so im kinda surprised you had to ask :D

ever heard of m_cpi?

it scales your sensitivity according to the Dpi you input. so no matter what DPI/CPI you have it will all feel exactly the same in quake in terms of sensitivity if you set m_cpi correctly.

i have yes, but sadly i play other games like UT so high dpi is really not an option for me ;)

lower UT sens? ;)

ehehe nah doesn't work that way. I've tried it but I cant control the mouse like i want with anything over 1600 dpi... too used to low dpi. Between 400-900 works best for me.

DPI/CPI doesn't matter if sensitivity is set accordinately. For example I set my mouse to 5600dpi(native/max) and my sens is 0.3 for 24.5 cm/360. For windows I just turn down the dpi with simple click of a button on my mouse.

I have both the original and the 2014 edition also, and didn't notice any difference in shape or coating, apart from it looking a little shinier (which i figured was due to being new, compared to the old one which has had a year of use).

I will agree that the scroll wheel is a lot touchier due to being the 24step design now, compared to the old 16step.

1 thing I did notice was that 2300cpi @ 1000Hz maxes out at 128 counts in MouseMovementRecorder and enotus, whereas 500Hz maxes at 512 and gives highest perfect control speed (~3m/s on my setup). All tests were performed on a QCK+.

fk14 1000Hz - http://drok-radnik.com/junk/fk2014_1khzcap.jpg (green means im hitting edge of screen with pointer, dont freak out)
fk14 500Hz - http://drok-radnik.com/junk/fk2014_500hz.jpg (once again, hitting screen edge with pointer, look at 1st column for what the mouse is actually reporting)

My old one was fine at 1000Hz, and 500Hz had some 1000Hz spikes every 4 or so counts in MouseMovementRecorder.

fk original 500Hz - http://drok-radnik.com/junk/fk500hz.jpg (note the 1000Hz spikes for no apparent reason)
fk original 1000Hz - http://drok-radnik.com/junk/fk1000hz.jpg

So obviously with the 2014 edition, I am now using 500Hz. Is anyone else experiencing this?

I measured the CPI steps on this version to be slightly lower than the old version, but still higher than their rated values. I had to increase in-game sensitivity by just over 5% to get similar results.

The new sensor aperture design is nice. There is much less chance for dust to get onto the lens because less of it is exposed, and appears to be easier to clean.

My only complaint is that they are still using the same stiff huano switches. The lighter omron type would be appreciated, but honestly its not that big a deal for me personally. I think people who play rts/moba/clickyclicky games probably care about it a lot more.

The original FK has been my favourite mouse since it came out, and this new version offers barely any improvement in my eyes. I will continue to use the new one because I like the feel of the finer/quieter scroll wheel.

As a side note, I like that Zowie keep their product line fairly lean, and just make small incremental improvements/variations on fundamentally good designs. I hope they are smart enough not to start releasing 9999dpi wireless laser mice with multi-zone customisable LED lighting and ruin their rep as providers of no-nonsense gaming gear. They are the one of the few companies that appear to be doing things right.

aite ima get off their dick now

zowie is smart enough (i think) to not release 9999 dpi mice. However I still dont understand the reason why their steps are not all multiple of one another. In fact, the reason why 450 dpi step has such noticeable input lag is because it has nothing to do with the default 2300 step (from wich all steps are interpolated from).
With this said, I can only suggest the next zowie to be the same as FK/AM/whatever but with proper dpi steps like:

- 400 / 800 / 1600
- 450 / 900 / 1800

they do that and they might actually build a mouse *close to perfect* (i wanted to say -a mouse worth buying- but might be a little too harsh), but the thing is these details matter alot, specificly when its directly related to tracking quality. I have no doubt this little change will improve the mouse by 300%, but sadly simple minor changes in shape/coating [just like they did from AM to FK] really doesnt worth the price of buying a new one.

its got customized dpi steps because of the low lod lens they use.

i also dont notice any input lag, 1150 dpi @1000hz.

just recalculate/tweak if you switch to a zowie, it aint rocketscience :)

Yeah i was put off initially until I realized I could just measure cm on my old mouse, and then raise the m_cpi on the FK to match cm. Then had same accel and everything.

there is input lag at 1150 (its much lower than 450 step though). In any case its a huge turn off to have to use 1150 (1200+) or 2300 (actually more). Sure, you can adapt to the mouse and it works but its definitily not perfect and i'd say its far from its true potential. I personally rather use another one instead, but ofc doesnt mean zowie doesnt work.... seems to work for you... =]

i guess im just retarded then. feels identical to any mouse with a decent sensor. :x

so far you only mention very trivial problems with the zowie. and if you do notice input lag, then dare i say it only occurs on a specific setup. really ive have had zero issues with the FK other than that its too small for me.

my cable is beginning to stiffen, need to tape it to the monitor or something

my only issue

if zowie is so smart enough why they made default dpi(1150) with input lag?

I don't think there is any input lag, i definitely cannot notice any, and I can notice the difference between 125hz and 1000hz very easily. I believe it's just some shitty rumor that one person started.

its definitily there, i notice it and only read about it after i noticed it too (so its not placebo) and i know other people who notice it too :x

same, with the ec2

nah, don't think thats true

If someone would explain to me WHY there would be input lag I would be more inclined to believe it, but since it takes like literally zero time to interpolate one dpi to another, I do not understand why the would add lag. That and I would definitely notice it and I don't feel it myself.

I mean like you say it's not placebo, and you definitely notice it, but then why do I and others not notice it?

What I HAVE noticed is that it some times switches to a different hz some times, and then I notice some lag and unplug it and then plug it in again switching to 1000hz and lag is gone.

Nothing in mice takes zero time, but like most people I have no idea how zowie done it, its somehow very badly recalculated from 2300/5=460, 2300/2=1150. Some people on overclock net notice floaty feeling on those steps.
For example: I have g400 and its interpolated 1800 dpi step has lag compared to 800 dpi on same mouse, and to 1800 dpi step on mx518.

Why someone notices input lag while other doesnt:
*You are not very sensitive to it. 125hz vs 1000 are not hard to tell on same mouse, while some people feel clear difference between different mice.
*Not paying attention to it and 100% focusing on the game.
*Having no responsive mouse to compare to.
*The way you hold/move/aim with mouse. Slow panning movements or fast flickshots. (I notice best with fingertip grip by aiming 180 degrees back and forth)

im sensitive as fuck to these things, makes no difference.

besides, arent you that guy that notices the 100 nanoseconds difference with HPET on or off?

this floaty feeling people get is either a bug with certain hardware combinations, or placebo.

lol thats some ignorant bullshit, feels like Im on steam forums

No, you r not sensitive as fuck.

You are one of those ignorant people who completely misunderstood some posts and got mad that pc's are not real time, and imagined with their defective brains that somehow I or r0ach said that dpc latency is total system latency and we feel those 50-100 microseconds. Hardware timers dont work that way Kevin.

Certain bug with system configuration that makes "bugged" PC receive interpolated steps with latency and native without? How the the fuck do you imagine bug with certain hardware combination to affect mouse sensor or mcu?

it says paranoid on ur forehead with a permanent marker

I'd like to see your quake live account))

I hit above 40lg with 450 dpi. No real difference to wmo, except the mouse skips a lot sadly ((

imo its not about feeling the input lag or not
in the end of the day there is no perfect sensor
Thats why i just choose a decent mouse and play with it.
iI you always look for a mouse with lower input lag
id rather play
no offense I just find your obsession with mice input lag pointless.
I've switched through IME 3.0,razer krait,abyssus,kinzu v2,deathadder old version,deathadder 2013,g100s
none of these mice was absolutely perfect
DA 2013 has input lag which makes the mouse feel like it has accel
g100s has much lower input lag that isnt even felt
in the end of the day i wouldnt bother caring about those things.

Some of these mice have more delay than a wmo at 125hz. Which means the mouse is delayed enough that it would be visible to people with 120hz or 144hz and higher. And I do realize that 120hz is less than 125hz but they are not synced up so even with 120hz monitor the delay would still be clearly visible.

I have read that if you turn the polling rate down to 500 it gets rid of the input lag. That sounds stupid but that is what i have read fixes it.

are you sure the shape is different with the new one? surely zowie would have mentioned it if that was the case.
the finer scrollwheel sounds nice, but I'm happy with my FKv1 for now

never knew steelseries made a wmo (just 1.1a/3.0). neato

They didn't. It's probably a modded mouse.

I believe they rebranded them for a short while.

update: thing is skipping like crazy at low sens, returning to amazon

it all depends on mousepad, try rotating it 180 degrees and see if it helps

I was using the P-CM mouse-pad (one of their branded ones) with the original Zowie FK and it skipped often. I think that if you play with a low sensitivity this mouse isn't for you. I can't comment on the newer model though.

it skips like crazy on qck heavy?
then it's broken.

you can test it in enotus mousetest to verify: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0y9flaallw8r145/MouseTest.rar

maybe return and get a new sample.

I'm amazed at the lack of zowie cl reviews in ESR.

Speaking of which, in the newest interview he said they are making a mousepad as well.

Got mine a few days ago @450dpi/500hz... great exp. so far xD

Still no small mice to yet rival the Abyssus since 2009, sadly.

FK is ok, but it does not track nearly as well as the Abyssus. I can get it to skip pretty easily, even on my red Artisan hien soft, which means its a waste of a mouse. I can never get my Abyssus to skip.

Stop using crappy sensors in gaming mice.

i dont understand this, it tracks perfectly on my qck+

do some of you have the habit of slightly lifting the mouse perhaps? it has such low lod it will interupt tracking. i created this habit since the mx500 days. ive nearly gotten over it but occasionally lift and my ec1 stops tracking too.

edit; like poster above said, could be very low sens too. seem to read that quite often. low sens and people sweeping at 5m/s :P

i make fk skip and i only play with 480 cpi/1.7 sens

wots that coating you can spray on the fk for people that dont sweat like peedoz?

I would like to push this thread a bit because I am considering buying this mouse. I have been placing with the ms 1.1a for almost three years now, I reckon.

I guess shape-wise they are familiar. Has anyone bought this mouse before playing with the ms 1.1a? Any experiences I would welcome.

Although I am really turned on by this mouse, the price is a bit of a downer. It is not that I cannot afford it but I feel the mouse is really a bit overpriced...

It costs like 65 to 70 bucks here. Insane! I can buy four steaks from that money.

I used a 1.1 for the better part of like 2008-11 so I would consider myself pretty familiar with 1.1. I would say shape wise 1.1 feels fatter aswell as your positioning on the mouse(at least for me) was not as comfortable. I was never personally a fan of the layout of the side buttons on the 1.1 so I was glad that I now had both on one side.

It's a good mouse, I came from a WMO, and it feels a bit small but otherwise really happy.

Y Change?

Couldn't overclock my WMO, wanted better polling rate

win 8?

No, Win 7, every time I tried the USB port would die... stopped trying after a couple of ports :DDDD

I do not like the cheap feel of the ms 1.1a anymore. also I find the mwheel very annoying.

plus I have only played with two mice in my life really: mx 518/500 and the 1.1a. dont mind to change a mouse every three years or so.

Steaks, a common currency in germany

Wursts.

Schnitzel.

Just wanted to throw my experience in. Maybe a fluke (I hope in the end) but my right click switch malfunctions/fails or is inconsistant seemingly out of the blue about 1.5 months into having a non rubber coated version (v1?) I am a enthusiast or could say I am tough on hardware, but I don't do anything crazy like throw or misuse it or button mash so I am surprised it is having a issue this soon, but I think I'll get a 2014, because otherwise the mouse is great.