Ok, first time to make a non-related off topic post:
I don't play any duel!

edit: sorry, that it was in your journal:]

it might affect other mods too, I wouldn't know :o

This reply was schooled by frs.

Notice: Drugs are bad, mkay?

lol what are you smoking, qlranks doesnt count the individual stats of the players from the game at all but bases it on the outcome of the game

TOO MUCH SMOKE FOR ZBLOCK:|

btw.. if you want good trip, just tell me :]

Good.

why?

People have a tendency to like statistics.

It's "fun" to some degree.
Everyone once in a while it's nice to see if you've improved, who you've played, who has been playing recently, top 5 currently online etc.

Stats motivate people, they drive them to improve and create more... stats.

elo motivates them to improve their elo, not to play more or play 'better' (= being a good opponent, e.g. not instaquitting if you're gonna lose elo or that the odds are against you winning him again)

it's a cool feature yeah but in a game like ql duel where there's a lot of egos involved it's bad activity-wise, a lot of people think about elo more than anything else.

Any halfwit knows that getting a high ELO through obviously easy matches does not make you a good player by any means.

Thus I am of the belief that QLRanks imposes willpower into players that are even a little bit serious about their performance. Myself included.

I've won matches against players that are now quite high in the rankings, which leads me to feel like I've still got a chance at coming up in that league.

I'm not saying that the above is the case for everyone, as there are of course those that count their egos a lot higher than them practicing with competitive challenges in mind, but overall I believe it's a good thing.

yeah probably it has more pros than cons all-in-all :)

Why not?

in short, elowhores

who gives a fuck about them....

those whose elo they whore and those who cant get a proper game beause the elowhores quit when they see a higher elo dude connecting

Made me start playing duel. It motivated me to become better (up to a certain degree I did). It made me notice that I did not use enough shaft (compared to the average good duellist).

Its nice in a way and I check it quite often. It is really annoying when you lose vs. one map wonders though and lose 30 points or w/e.

do you duel enough to see the problem with elowhores?

Good.

Really appreciate the effort that went into it, it is really useful to see clearly and easily see what a player is like (in duel). One thing that needs to be done though is to filter out one map wonders and inflated elo people through a proper ladder like SC2 has (or so i've heard/read).

Why do you think it's bad?

elowhores

you can't practice as well as you used to, because people are worried about losing elo

why are you worried so much about other people's elos :P ?

i'm not am i? i'm worried about the thing people worry about their own elo too much!

how can an additional non intrusive stats system be bad?

don't know if it's just ql duel or other 1v1 games too but there are people who concentrate on elo gain more than just practicing or becoming better in the game

either way it means more players?

as for my experience, it's tougher to get a game now

and for a lower skilled dude, it's tough to get an even game when nobody within your elo range or below it joins.

it was never easy for a lower skilled guy to get a even game in quake, it was always one of the main reasons most newbies got repelled from playing because they couldnt handle 30-0 rape.

atleast with elo they have a chance to see whether or not their opponent is at their level ( not including new account, fake name high elo players)

1400 elo guy isn't that low he couldn't get a game! =P

maybe ~1000-1200 is?

What do you mean "for duel activity" ?

My opinion is that QLRanks saved duel. There is absolutely no point to play a competitive 1v1 game if you can't track your progress, the win % means nothing and so does the tier system.
The thing is that since it isn't official, it also isn't perfect and created some problems such as easier tierslumming. Now you can safely join some 1000-1100 elo game and grind your way to 1500+ elo without any effort.

That's why QL needed to implement ladders right from the start, ladders mean matchmaking and matchmaking means everything nowadays.

isn't playing zotacs and such a better way to measure skills? your elo can go +-200 depending on the amount of elowhoring

Of course playing actual tournaments is better but it's very different, there is pressure, there is seedings, bo1 stages etc, plus it's only once a week with not as much players and with probably much better opponents overall.

And I think it's pointless to take into account elowhoring, of course there will always be people abusing the system and that's why I said that it created the problem of making tierslumming easier.
It's also why I said that all this problems would be way less important if there were a proper matchmaking system since you would always be matched with players around the same elo as yours.

Im guessing my point was elo doesn't necessarily measure progress, a lot of players play for elo instead of the progress :)

Possibly, but why would that decrease the activity?

^exposed tierslummer arsonist

because now you can't play everybody, only the ones you will win

and the 'victims' of elowhoring get frustrated and maybe quit ql for good worst case scenario

I don't know, I never looked at it that way :l

If I encounter a lesser skilled opponent I do my best to direct him to ESR, #quakelive and other various sources to join the community; usually add them to my list and give them a few pointers despite my incredibly low skill.

ye, like 11 years q3/ql duel was shitty pointless and it got worse when suddenly the shiny qlranks appeared and everything went fucking rainbow. that's how it was.

Times have changed.

Ladders improve the activity and interest from the general public.

Don't give me that "back in my days" bullshit.

yes, but the game really hasn't, just the players did. too much analyzing and rationality for me and for a "quake".

you could argue this was always the point of higher tier quake, but that wasn't the fashion that dragged me into playing "back in my days".

so what's left is a bunch of regular nerd personalities, rather than interesting or special individuals.

I remember the days when "matchmaking" was getting your ass handed to you for months till you were good enough to hang with the vets. Not this "SC2 hold my hand so my fragile ego isn't shattered when I lose several games in a row" bs. Sorry, I'll sit back in my rocking chair now :[

tl;dr you're the only one who thinks qlranks is having a negative impact on duelling.

I dont think so :o I cant be alone with this thought

you seem so far though!

You might be :)

no hes not. i think that it has A negative EFFECT on dueling. the overall impact is i think positive.

ql ranks is good to check stats and some other stuffs but i dont like it cause you are allways afraid to play vs guys who have better elo cause you dont want that yours go down to some low number even if your skill is way much higher than that ( if you got what i mean)

also it is easy to reach a high elo just by playing vs 1200 elo or smth and you will reach 1400 or 1500 elo with np.

also for me, it is not a good way to see if the guy is good or not, you can pass your days losing matches vs high lvl / elo players ( score is tight ) and then your elo will go way too much down and you will be considered as an average/low player just cause your elo is low.

i dont use qlranks anymore cause i have noticed that i wont improve if im afraid of playing players with high elo and pass my days "improving my elo" , now i dont care if my elo is high or not, all i care is reaching a high lvl in ql.

megamantres supports qlranks

no one gives a fuck

you do

you wish

i totally see where ur coming from, there's loads of ppl in the top100/200 who should never be there, but they just play the same guys who they can beat, they always get +1/+2 and never lose any points, thing is qlranks is the thing that makes them play, and ppl like u or me shouldn't be too bothered about them cause ppl like that will never be a good challenge or will they play a cup anytime soon

tbh I'm more worried about lesser skilled players :( I have a 1400 elo friend and his experiences are pretty bad just because he can't get an even game because of elowhores (because of qlranks >_>)

so you should stop playing vs him

he often even prefers to play me over random elowhore/retard/etc people

indeed silly midgets elo boosting to 2.2k and then playing with their alt acc for the rest of their lives )))(

qlranks is good, but their parser bot could be better.

qlranks is good, the game is not the best to be measured by elo points....

and fuck elowhores

My high activity in duel is solely because of QLRanks. While I can see your problem with Elowhoring, I don't think that it's made the activity drop. Quite the opposite in fact.

There are lots and lots of players, both good and bad, who play all day long no matter who they play against. I'm ~1470 Elo and I can easily get a match with both a 1200 and a 1600. I can also easily lose either one, so you shouldn't always put that much thought into Elo.

how do you play? do you join servers with 1/16 or 2/16 or join an empty one and wait for ppl to join?

Both. I try to avoid joining private servers unless I'm invited, though; last week I got kicked out of a duel for leading 10-2 on aero, so I lost a ton on my Elo... which of course shouldn't matter, but dammit if I got pissed off over it. D:

alright. yea private servers suck in many ways... and prolly id doesn't realize any of it >:l

Overall, i believe it's a good thing.

QLRanks got me into dueling again, since i wanted to prove that i was better than the 1400 ELOs i was running around with. Additionally, it's a nice tool when playing tournaments to avoid your opponents favourite map.

However, at some point i have to agree with you. (Now to the confession :(((() Sometimes i avoid to play a duel against someone +/- 50 points of my own skill. Instead i try to steal from players with 200-300 ELO higher than myself (lost = -4, win = +25). I know... I'm a bad kitty!

perhaps it's more good than bad but I'm not sure..

thought it was just awesome for a long time but recently I've noticed this problem :/ I wish everybody could just ignore their elo and do like a check every 3 months or so!

What you describe has happened to chess a looong time ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_syste...27s_rating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system#Selective_pairing


In team games there's a new breed of winjoiners (since QLRanks are so horribly broken! One guy times out at 19:50 and isn't ranked, someone replaces him for 5 fucking seconds and gets points? WTF? Someone from opposing team quits at 19:59 and doesn't lose points, instead I lose points because now it's a 4v3 win? WTF?)

But team winjoiners / losequitters would be eliminated in a split second if only the points went to people who have played more than 50% of whole game's time. Whenever that happeens, the system will more or less start working.


In duel the rating is million times better but yes, it stops me from playing slummers who join me, so I guess for people like you it means lower activity?

Before, I would join a server, someone joins, I ready up and get raped 30:0 on a slow map. Now I see his Elo is 1800 and I know which breed he is.

And cut the bullshit about learning from playing better players. I can play 1400-1500 Elo people and lose like like 10:3 and not feel violated and actually notice some mistakes I did. But I will not learn a thing from being spawnfragged repeatedly.

So at least on my noob level, the situation hasn't changed for worse. The people who seek easy wins are the same, it didn't change with the advent of qlranks. So I can now avoid them. It's better for my experience.

My personal activity in duel has even gone up thanks to this, because before, I was always holding myself against even trying to find a duel, because of how traumatic it always was. Now I can play not only against friends, but also on publics. Not that I even duel more than few games monthly vs non-friends. But before it was absolute 0 for a long time.

you have a good point in the last sentence :) and yeah the 'playing vs better players' -mantra stops working if the other player is _massively_ better

qlranks.com is good of course, but it's important to remember that the games that Elo's are calculated from are often unofficial. Compare this to USCF or FIDE, where games must be of the official sort for a registered chess player's Elo to change.

that would be better for ql too, for sure! nobody elowhores in official matches do they :)

That's a good idea, making a ladder with "official rankings" which only takes certain matches (faceit, various cups, lans) in calculation.

Perhaps this could be done with the data at http://www.quakehistory.com/ :)

(thanks PYTON!)

that would only cover 1% of the playerbase wouldnt it :/

I don't see what you mean by this. Previously you posted: http://www.esreality.com/post/2327894/#pid2327860
Could I have some clarification please?

Yes it might only mean a small fraction of the player base, but if those are the only people playing 'official' games then so be it.

Aren't 'official' games those from cups/lans etc and not random pub games? If so, PYTON has pretty much everything covered

sorry my bad, didn't click it, thought it was only about LANs :(

so that idea is great, I wish qlranks would implement that somehow!

I wish qlranks would also do/show "elo per map" for duel.

suggest it to them, would be cool!

guess they delete the old match results =( could start it based on whats left i guess

indeed never too late. SIRAX WE NEED YOU HERE.

It's definitely good, you have a proof whether your game is getting better or not, you can find more interesting games instead of raping or being raped. Plus, if you are about to play vs someone in a cup, for instance, you can make a little bit of scouting to see what is his worst map or whatever...

When you talk about egos or being a good opponent and such, that's comes down to the nature of the player and how much his head is up his ass...

but the real problem lies with those that want to rape and not get raped =p and there are plenty of people who'd like to do just that

that happens with elo ranks or without it

more now that it's easier to tell how good everybody is

it's more positive for those who look for same skill than those who look for raping, as I said before, it comes down to the nature of the player...

even those who look for same skill often end up being more or less elowhores

I think you're paranoid

I know you don't know what I know

shitty videogames anyway, make people dumber than they are.

quake ones expecially

I think i've met the biggest assholes i know in quake

as for peoples in general, i don't know, i may have met worst peoples in reale life, but as a game "community", i have few doubts that it has the worst peoples ever, in general.... maybe some smaller, nerdest games could even beat it, but it would be an harsh fight anyway

I obviously encountered real assholes outside gaming too... but they used to keep the same level of "assholeness", inside gaming they beat their previous mark everytime! I know people who can confirm this

yea ql favours them :d

I think they're the same assholes but the combination of internet and a competitive game makes it easier for that bad side to come out.

Good or bad maybe arent the best words to describe it. Yet i understand what maza is saying and agree to a certain extent, most players care about elo, those that say otherwise are either lying or weird.

What i dislike more about qlranks is that it started working pretty good, yet it still has stupid bugs like failing autocrawling, pisses me off.

weird is beyond elo and netcode.

;) knew somebody was going to post that :*

that is actually funny :)

i don't care about elo, etc I give some guys with 1500+ elo free 5-10 maps wins :))

qlranks is awesome

just do it the right way
http://qlranks.com/duel/player/h8m3

LOL i like eyetoeye a lot for small CA's, but being your most played duel map? o.O

QL ranks is very good and I think it certainly improved activity. though some individuals take it too seriously and don't learn new maps to keep their elo at the same level.

exactly that. although I have to admit that I just generally dislike dm13 and hektik which I do not practise at all. aero, t7, ztn all are the most fun imho.

ofcouse it's okay to not play a map if you don't enjoy it. but what we see nowadays is players not even giving new maps a chance, because the first ten games you can lose to anyone. they're scared to lose their precious elo. but if people keep continue doing this we'll always be playing maps like bloodrun. its not QLranks that's bad for the community but exactly these kind of players.

yeah, i remember trying to play silence at the beginning when ppl would join and try to vote ztn :D

people join the server and vote ZTN?

preposterous, this has never happened before.

what is this "ztn" people are talking about

whats a ztn

Gesundheit!

its better than nothing

it seems to miss a bunch of my 1v1s though and i keep getting bummed by 1200 fakers

QL ranks is really good for duel activity. What id did with the standard players is not tho. ;)

not many things done by id are :D!

with qlranks quake duel gone from wild punk slayer madness to

phased weener elo grinding and pussy i just play people on my elo today, cause i don't want to be disturbed by anything unpleasant. maybe next week when i'm done working on my progress i'm gonna challenge a guy with 200points of eloys more than me, that is gonna be exciting.

qlranks is awesome, before you had no way of knowing if someone is similar skill as you, so u get raped.

Now with qlranks you have a better indication( elo rather then shit tiers) and can only play people with 200 elo more or less and have a nice duel.

Rather then raping or being raped(no fun in either).

CA ELO is utterly ridiculous. I have a higher ELO than people who are miles better than me and some people have negative ELO. How does that even happen? Right now in CA, skillrating is actually a better indicator of actual skill than ELO.

"CA ELO"

It is because ELO is not made to be used beyond 1v1.

It would work for giving ELO to a team/clan (if they stayed somewhat consistent with their lineup) but not individual ELO in a team based game on public servers, it just wont work for that.

IF you used totally randomized shuffles and had no tiers I could see it working somewhat for predicting "how likely you are to be on the team that win" but since the shuffle is not random and there are tiers that are somewhat static it simply will not work.

What would be even worse would be if they started making the shuffles based on that ELO :D

I love it