No option for the current adroits pool?

Why is there always dm13 in the pool and ztn gets put aside? Ztn is just the better map imo but w/e...


Hektik, ztn, t7, silence and either aero or tox.

Do it!

no hektik ???


FUUUU ;)

The adroits cups proved well enough that the map is both nice to play and watch for the majority of people (who expressed their opinion anyway)

I'll go and vote on facebook <3

Oh and toxicity isnt as popular as you make it sound... This is and has always been a terrible map in my opinion. It has no real depth to how it plays.

Debate is open I guess...

and hektik has depth? o_O

It has. But y for most it's rg only which is wrong.




Imo a very good example, why hektik is such a good map. Complete different playstyles which evolves into a great game.

1st) you could find a similar demo of tox aswell. e.g in the raising stars challenge with baksteen

2nd) when i saw dem0n vs twister on hektik, my face fell asleep. both just had railgun out all the time and that was it. i d rather see hektik in a mappool than dm13 or ztn. but still i think tox is the better map.

1st) you could find a similar demo of tox aswell. e.g in the raising stars challenge with baksteen

I wasn't trying to compare both maps.

2nd) when i saw dem0n vs twister on hektik

Let those two play tox. Expect the result to be the same. Or watch k1llsen strenx playing tox. Both will abuse rg on it too, because there are so many angles to do so. As I said hektik isn't all about rg hence I posted a game where the underdog (everyone expected k1llsen to rape dahang back then) won with better timing, denying rg angles and just have overall the better position.
Next time u try to argue u should come up with better arguements and maybe refer to top 10 players ;)

1st) I was comparing the maps and you posted a vid of hektik, so i assume you argue in favor of this game.

2nd) I answered to dem0n, so i also quote a game of him. I also have seen killsen-games on hektik against top-player, which were no fun to watch at all.

But the biggest argument is: I don't say tox has MORE depth than hektik, nor do I say that its less about aim/rail whatever. But it defently has NOT LESS depth than hektik.I won't argue in favor for tox, but you can't chose hek over tox because of some strange reasons which are just not true. Both maps are fast, aim-heavy to a certain degree and both need about the same amount of tactiques. If you look at your game and dahang had the same amount of items on a different map, lets say ztn (which is "more tacticqual"), then the result probably were more in favor of dahang than it was on tox. So I think with your video you only showed that it is possible to outplay a aimer with good aim (even less good that the aimer) and perfect timing, which is probably true for all maps, which are semi decent suited for duel.

So finally im totally ok with hektik back in the pool even though I prefere tox. But I won't let the argument stay, that hektik should have more depth or something like that.

Cheers FFX.

1st) I was comparing the maps and you posted a vid of hektik, so i assume you argue in favor of this game.

I just argued against the arguement that hektik doesn't have any depth. Maybe I wasn't expressing myself clearly enough.

But it defently has NOT LESS depth than hektik.I won't argue in favor for tox, but you can't chose hek over tox because of some strange reasons which are just not true.

I think nowhere in my posts did I say tox is a map with lesser depth nor did I even start to compare both. My only intentions were to show that hektik is more than aim.

But I won't let the argument stay, that hektik should have more depth or something like that.

And again I never did but w/e.
As is we prolly won't see hektik in the pool which is kinda sad but I can live with it as I like tox, too :P

then peace

depth... lol

silence out, hektik in

that silence map has been promoted like no other. It is like “u like or not, u have to play it”

silence is very playable and has some new game flow. and sure you can say that you dont like it. I dont like many maps. But why should a playable map which is fun for many (not all) players not be included, while another is. E.g. dm13, which is not played at all.

I wasn’t exited as a spec in its first tourney, but now that the map has probably matured, the gameplay hopefully will be more interesting. I remember being exited the first time I saw a game in t9, t7, hektik and toxicity and was interested in running the maps afterwards.

You got a point though and I don’t h8 the map. I just didn’t like how it was pushed to us. We were never given an option tbh (it’s how I feel at least).

To me there is much depth on toxicity.

It's a constant positional war where items aren't necessarily as important as the proper position. It also requires very quick decisions and demands a good variety in weapon usage.

agree

+ silence
+ hektik
- tox

imo!!

hub, ztn, dm13, t7, dm6, hektik, silence would make me incredibly happy

No seriously how exactly can you call toxicity an 'unremovable' map and you're throwing a map like ztn which I actually dislike but atleast I can objectively say why the map is good and why it should be in the pool...

Those possibilites of votes are all bad imo, and the currently winning one makes me wonder again about humanity's sanity.

you could simply be happy about the fact, that you're special! \o/

+ztn
+silence
-toxicity

please no hektik. to much random to fast maps. fuck cpmish map list.

voted for
7 maps: Hektik out

me too.

k same, keep at it

here is the guy who called me pubster when i wanted to play tox, and finally i realise that he just does not like the map and likes other maps more. good thing

wtf is this shit?

Silence
Bloodrun
FuriousHeights
Aerowalk
Toxicity

If 7 maps:
+lostworld
+hektik

i would be ok with eigher your 5 or 7 maps list.

+ 1 more vote for toxicity out!

Those fast maps maybe fun to play and even sometimes fun to watch but imo they don't fit in any competitive mappool because they miss the tactical component ql duel is about completely.. If tox is in could similarly put eyetoeye in the pool.. :P

+ztn
+silence
+t7
the rest: whatever

Can't vote without a facebook account? That's a great idea

D M 6
M
6

D M 6
M
6

Z T N
T
N

t7, aero, silence, ztn, tox/hek (id remove either map every time anyway)

no more dm13 & ztn plz

Why do people keep aero in the pool? Repetetive and annoying.

If you want to prevent beginners to have a shot and new viewers of
streams to get confused its great but otherwise..?

use the most commonly played duel maps, how hard can it be, ffs.

aero is fucking good and classic map.

no more tox & hub plz thx and let the players revote after a month

someone _NEEDS_ to make 2 new ztn-like maps. im sick of seeing all the same maps, aero dm13 and t7 zzzz.

Agree about the new "ztn style" maps.

What is the ztn style?

Because as far as paper is concerned, t7 is as similar as it gets, as it has:
- the same weapons
- the same items
- one major item exposed in the air, for baiting
- one major item low ground, in an area of messier fights
- approximately the same size and distance between items

Yet everyone I asked except rapha considers them totally different.

I think it has more to do with the pace of the map than the items on it. By which I mean that imho ZTN doesn't really have a 'standard ztn' pace to it. Each player can kinda bend it to his gamestyle. Make it as fast or as slow as he wants it to be, which is possible, but far more difficult on other maps that tend to favor a particular gamestyle on them.

My thoughts:

1. One position controls ra, mh, ya and all 3 major weapons.
2. Distances between the items are shorter on ztn.
3. It's yellowish. (srsly)

Don't start a discussion about it - it can go on forever.
It's pretty hard to make a map "like ztn" or a map that works like any other map in general because there are lots of things that have to be taken into account.
A map isn't just defined by the items it has or the general size of its rooms - it's more like a combination of all those things that makes a map.
Bloodrun is defenitely a level with unique geometry concepts you wont find in a lot of maps - you can't simply take parts of it and combine them with new stuff to get a level that plays exactly the same.
In most cases, if you try making a map that is supposed to be "like map xyz" you end up either with a shit version of the original or something entirely different.

"like ztn" means that match Rapha - Cypher on this map will on average end up with the same score as on ztn
similarly I would say the same about other maps)

>Yet everyone I asked except rapha considers them totally different.
if you have rapha's opinion you dont need to ask anybody else

I VOTE YOU!

Although aero, lost world nor furious heights aren't bad maps; I couldn't agree more on seeing another ztn like map.

I dont understand why dm13 still played professionally
90% of players hate it and 99.9% of total players enjoy ztn but its always out in tournaments
Also t7 isnt much played/loved we can put in hektik or silence for more "action"

who in quake dislikes t7

me

are u faggot

i dislike dm13 and dislike t7.

Then why is Lost World so frequently picked if everybody hates it? Even on the Adroits vote it came in only 3rd with 22% of the votes, so stop pulling imaginary numbers out of your ass.

And 87.3% of all statistics used on internet forums are made up on the fly.

best map pool possible, in order of map=t7,aero,tox,hek,dm13!!!!!!!

rofl, 3 fast maps. might aswell put eye to eye in there also.

better than zzzzzzztn, with no decent new maps (i refuse to accpet silence as a good duel map) u can obv switch any of tox hek or aero for ztn... but tbh t7 is kinda slow, dm13 is the slowest, and ztn is slow for the most part, so i dont see why it cant be 3 fast 2 slow, if were judging a map as either being fast or slow, as opposed to the general 3 slow 2 fast. also flash is best. and ur a fgt

^0 games on silence

have watched many, also i alias m8. i havnt played fucking devilish either, but i know that would be a bad map for duel hah

Devilish should be TDM2v2

2 v 2 tdm i havnt played enough to be able to know what makes for a good map, duel however is a different story!

It's 2 slow, 1 mid, 2 fast. I think this is what a 5 map maplist should roughly be about. You can change maps within the category (fast map with a fast map) not between them or the pool will feel lopsided. also jangbang>all. and u like to wear skirts. + fuck hektik.

when have u seen me in a skirt m8, +hektik is better than ztn, and if people say silence is good (l0l) then just have a 7 map pool, silence, hektik, t7, ztn, dm13, toxicity, aero. 2ez, also in b4 twister says 7 map pool is bad. ps flash gonna be king of sc2 soon.

lets ignore the fact that you shouldn't compare hektik and ztn, but what actually makes hektik a better map than ztn? because it's constant +forward with easy angles? because it has less emphasis on prediction and more on reactionary actions? because hitscan dominates more? because the spawns are as retarded as tox? and i have my informers on your skirtwearing habbits, and i agree that the rise of flash is fun to watch but im rooting for by.sun also. ps ql sucks.

well the closest server to me now perth has just been shut down so i have to agree that ql sucks haha, also ye sun is ok, dont really like him much though, im bw he was a boring player, and stats should have raped him if he didnt noob his dts and they got stuck at the back haha, its better because its not overplayed as fuck, and is newer (which doesnt obviosuly make a map better or worse i guess, but does mean its less appealing to have in the pool), it favours +back far too much, to the point where camping at the exit of a tele makes u rly hard to kill, also i think u know that im far from a hitscan only player, so i dont thtink my thinking would involve saying hektik was better because it favours hitscan etc, but most maps rail is the most important gun, and there is nothing u can do to stop that. i remmeber when the rail spawn existed when u stood at mh, now that was a 'retarded spawn' yet people still loved ztn, so obv the spawn system cant be too much of a problem for a map, and any map can be constant +fwd and +back depending on the player, also no idea what ur tlaking about with skirts haha, dont think ive ever worn one im my life m8 hah also what map involves hard skillful shots all the time? none and ztn has most of the easy shots id have thought anyway

+Lost World
+Furious Heights
+Aerowalk
+Blood Run
+Windsong Keep / Silence

-Toxicity

edit: would like to vote without a facebook account

why hasnt windsong keep been given a chance in any cup so far? O_o

this. I'd like to see it being given a chance like silence did. Looks good and playable competitively imho.

Because it's not ztn.

Quake players only play ztn.
Because ztn.

I was thinking ztn is just another name for quake.

Most likely because the RG seems to lead to a lot of imbalance where the players fight over it, then whoever gets it starts camping and using +back near doorways due to the very long lines of sight and the general open nature of the arena, resulting in a map that favors defensive play too much. At least, that is what I observed from playing it. (Not an expert, but just roughly what I'm thinking) I could see it being playable if the RG is dropped however.

it's just a flat dismemberment/battleforged, sorry

+hektik +houseofdecay !

I will be more than happy if bloodshit wont be included in this cup!

Frazes map pool <3

-tox

+ hektik

SILENCE PLZ.
NO ZTN/DM6/DM13 ftw.

Fun fact 1: People complain about the same old map pool since I dont know when. And when there are actually (relatively) new maps as tox, windsong and silence, the get voted out because "NO WAY IM GONA LEARN A NEW MAP, I'VE ALREADY LEARNT ONE MAP, THATS ENOUGH"

Fun fact 2: Most people only play bo1 in this cup anyway (if the cup is played more or less similar to the zotacs where only the last rounds are played bo3 or bo5). So they all want their 3 maps in it, which they are "good" in. And since most player on my level or under it just play 1 map, this might be a problem. God bless qlranks so you can vote out the only map they play anyway.

Fun fact 3: In my experience there are roughly 2 types of players who like different maps. There are the aimers who like fast maps like areo, tox or hektik. Then there are slow players who like dm13 and t7. When there is a mappool with ztn in it and 2 slow and 2 fast maps, its in 90% of the time gona end in a ztn bo1, which is FUCKING BORING. THIS MAP HAS BEEN AROUND FOREVER AND IM SICK OF PLAYING IT!

funfact 4: Ive played more than enough toxicity and silence to know them (atleast toxicity, I played an entire cup with silence on it though which is probably fair enough to judge if I like the feel on the map or not)

They are both ok maps (as in same as battleforged) but they don't have that upper class needed to fit in a real competitive mappool.

mostly agree with what u say from any post ive seen of yours, but toxicity is a map i like, and think its a long way better than any realistic replacements in dm6, t9, silence or bf. DEATH TO ZZZZZZTN

Well I guess I just don't like toxicity just like I don't really like aerowalk.

I'd certainly put toxicity at a higher rank than silence or bf for sure. But I have a thing for house of decay and dm6. Probably because these two maps were amongst the maps I've had the chance to play my first competitive lan on, and it was a damn good time :)

hehe ye, i dont mind t9 when i first started to play quake, was a map me and my m8 whom i started playing with would play as noobs, so i have a soft spot for it also ahha

rapha said, and i fully agree with him, that the FIRST spawns on toxicity are very even and balanced and fair. While SOME FIRST spawns on ztn are just not. Not even close to "fair" or even.
So I dont agree with you saying that ztn is better than tox.

ztn is overplayed, but players love it much more then other maps.
I would vote to this ztn remake http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2028 .
It's same and it's different. Not just new textures. Watch little video or try it in Q3.

i never said ztn is a bad map, but its boring nontheless. the remake looks interesting, id rather play a total different map though.

there are enough "new" maps which are playable and could make a 5 maps mappool.

tox, hek, silence, windsong, t7.
2 fast, 2 slow and one in the middle.

In case someone wonders:

ffa map

Too many sharp edges, teleport to SPACE, it just looks... clumsy and bad.

you can "tweak" it, i gave just an example , how same map , can be changed. even different item layouyt can change a lot.

reverse it and call it spacerun (spaceztn w/e)

it definityl does not look like the "same" ztn. but if its any good had to be tested.

+ Bloodrun
+ Campgrounds
+ Lost World
+ Proving Grounds
+ Vertical Vengeance

Make it oldschool! :D

you wish ...

Yea i do, but im not playing duel, just missing the good old days :)

Why not keep the map pool similar to the next LAN or bigger tournament and if the next big LAN/tournament announces another map pool you switch it to adjust it?

If not this, then ask players who actually play duel in your league/tournament. I personally get a bit chocked when people vote their maps and then say they never play the game anyway...

I believe the idea is: check what community wants to see, play one cup, asses the outcome and if needed apply changes. In this case I think that a starting poll is a good idea. the next step is very important though, check what works, what doesn't and make changes.

Why not remove force spawn lowsens wank?

QL spawnsystem killed Quake.

What do you recommend, random?

yes please

True,qw and q2 spawns are the best ever,the fun of spwan frags is lost in ql

why not making a huge 7-9 map pool than winner of cointoss picks a map? - obv only until 1/8 or 1/4th finals. it should be a community event too no? let ppl play the map they like, this way might get more singups...
most duelers know 1-3 map. this is the reality... not everyone playing to improve themselves but just to have fun, with picking you could involve these players too, who otherwise wouldnt sign up since they know like 1-2 maps out of 5-7.

How about a map pool that changes every week? Not completely, just one map. Like swap Toxicity for Hektik for example.

exactly. what better occasion to rotate the mappool, check new maps and get rid of some old ones, that community doesn't want to see than a weekly tournament. Imagine the event that would occur when after half a year of this system the announcement would come: 'ztn back to mappool for upcoming faceit'. It could bring some fresh air into online cups and even influence lan mappools.

Good idea, we have so many good maps playable for duel:
ztn
dm6
dm13
aerowalk
t4
t7
t9
hektik
tox
silence
battleforged
dismemberment
solid?
windsong keep?

You can't make a mappool that makes everybody happy. With a rotating pool, all players get to play their favourite maps every now and then. Always keep 2 or 3 of the most popular maps (ztn, aero, t7,..) in to attract alot of players.


Btw can someone post an update of how the poll goes so far (if it's visible on FB) ?
Not including the by far most popular map because of some poll were everyone can ask there non-gaming friends to vote for his favourite map would already be the first fail.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15072710/QL/misc/faceit_poll.jpg

1. 101
2. 57
3. 33
.
.
.

Where's AGP when we need them to make a official mappool commitee that'd vote every month ?


Here's my ideal 7-mappool:


furious heights
aerowalk
bloodrun
lost world

hektik
campgrounds
....


You know what, let's go for a 9-maps mappool. I know how it feels to not have your favorite map in the pool for ages (hektik) and I don't want to live that again nor do I want anyone else to be disappointed for years because his map is out.


furious heights
aerowalk
bloodrun
lost world
hektik
toxicity
campgrounds
silence
house of decay / vertical vengeance / battleforged / placebo / WHATEVER.

house of decay / vertical vengeance / battleforged / placebo / WHATEVER.

WAIT, WHAT??!!

You know what, let's go for a 9-maps mappool. I know how it feels to not have your favorite map in the pool for ages (hektik) and I don't want to live that again nor do I want anyone else to be disappointed for years because his map is out.

I know that feeling. That's why I always support big map pools

we could add hektik if aero ,or tox removed ,to keep map pool balanced for VQ3.
My best map is aero and I love it, I hate hektik, but I like challanges and I could vote to swap them. still in my opinion tox>hektik all day long. Tox is full of intresting fights with different sets of guns. Hektik is just wait enemy with rail and click. But as I told, "to keep map pool balanced " you need have different maps, so it's ok , to have map for different skill set.

that vq3 balance!!!1

People have tried using that strategy of railwhoring hektik against me (aka people who actually knew other ways to play the map) and they haven't always succeeded. That's one of the only maps I've beaten cypher or strenx on. They're not exactly known for their bad aiming are they? ;)

I am winning aero with no rail (zero shots in all game) against skilled players, but it doesn't prove ,thats not rail/aim heavy map. You can play hektik with insane control and maybe good lg use, but without rail, you can't do a shit. wanna try some day play me vs aero , i won't use rail, and then play hektik, you won't use rail too?

blablabla

Most people here never knew how to play hektik, includin strenx and you then.


You're just making up shit, hektik can be played in many ways and stop simplifying everything.

Two people who dontknow how to play hektik properly will most probably endup using rails like fools but it's like any other map...

Of course I'd be happy if Silence was in the map pool but let me put all this stuff aside for a second.

QL duel got boring as fuck because of the lack of innovation and people not being willing to step out of their comfort zone. I'd be happy to see at least either Blood Run, or Lost World or Aerowalk go while making additions that garuantee a balanced pool - may it be Hektik or Silence or Windsong Keep or anything else that's playable.

well said.
id kick all 3 of the mentioned maps.

The map pool debate will never get old

Id should have looked at Magic the gathering, a success story that draws bigger and bigger crowds since -94 despite being an expensive game to play competitively( x00 euro a year).

Transferred to quake, it would vaguely correspond to release 5 new maps as a dlc 3 times a year and hold tournaments using those maps until the next batch of maps get released.

interesting thought!

+silence
+ hektik
- tox ( shitty map )

What is up with this silence/hektik love, the maps are terrible.
Put in Gothic rage, windsong keep, sorrow, battleforged, tox etc , but not those awful maps.

If people want underplayed/newish maps i wouldn't mind.

House of decay
sorrow
battleforged
windsong keep
gothic rage

err wew, you have exactly the opposite tastes to mine.

Gothic rage COULD work for duel.
Others... I don't know.
But gothic offers nice fights.

It's by far the worst duel map I've ever had the "pleasure" of testing.

Care to elaborate?

I'm genuinely interested in which parts you didn't like et cetera

Lg side of the map is imba and lg is the favorable weapon on all areas of the map except the corridors. Which makes for an extremely campy game because the player out of control can't move to the lg side properly and has to camp around in the far yellow side of the map. Generally bad flow and almost all of the fights are all but interesting because one player is bound to have huge advantage due to weapons or height.

Do most duellers hate battleforged too? I remember when they were trying to play it and I didn't mind it. Some games were deathly slow and boring, but some could be played very high paced and exciting.

I like battleforged.

i wonder why 8-D

I thought u liked house of decay, if that is still true, we have at least that in common :P.

True, True. :)