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Quoting SyncError:

"We recently discovered some issues in regards to our netcode and will be running tests throughout the next two weeks to test some things."

"Just to be specific, the issue is with the unlagged code configuration, not the netcode -- but I understand how those are coupled."

thats because the code is done serverside and clientside, and serverside has power over clientside

q43a fixes all that, throughtout the entire Q4 sdk, only need to broadcast a few sounds, which will sometimes make client hear it twice, then broadcasting sounds are only for safe keepings

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but in warsow i don't have to deal with faggoty, assholish rainbow binds informing me of my skill level, nor broken english shit talking.

have a plus

For me it seems that weapon balance is quite good, SG might be a little too strong, but other than that its really great. I dont understand how you can say rockets suck really... its like that even if you have low stack like 100 / 100 or less you can easily take down player with 200 / 200 if you have good position and just pop him up to air and connect next 3-4 shots, which is ridiclously easy with current rocket speed. LG is balanced, so is RG and PG too. I would say that your dodging sucks or your aim is total shiat, either will do the thing.

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so what do you want to say? all this textwallis about LG overpowered or what?

tl;dr.

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the game is same for everyone so it seems to me that the only thing you got problems with is the faggoty assholish rainbow binds :((( sorry about that

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i've missed the shot. could this be the player model i'm using? from what i've heard, tank jr. is the most accurate representation of the hit box

TankJr is not. Keel is.

Check the soon to be approved image attachment.

so ql has headshots. nice

Nah the domes removed as they were pretty useless, image is a bit old.

Could've sworn they were replaced with small cylinders. I thought Bargle mentioned it. Either way, heads are still in hitbox area, unless practice mode is using different hitboxes.

yup, that's how i last heard it too, they're not there for 'headshots', they're just there to make sure the head is hittable at all, without raising the height of the whole hitbox which would make a lot of whitespace hittable either side.

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Whats the green for?

Which green? The enemy model green, or the slightly less strong green?

old (q3) hitbox

aha ok thank you but why are there 2 photos of each model on the picture and both are different?

Cause the hitbox is parallel to the map ( something like that ), the second line shows you how you could abuse it back then ( 45° angle ) to get something like 25% more hitbox exposed aka lgfest.

The reason every gun in quake live seems overpowered to you is because the game you usually play is warsow.

quakelive guns are almost perfect tbh, the balance is very nice atm.

this.

ql weapons felt overpowered sine i came from playing q4, but they really arent. ql weapons are well balanced actually.

translation: waaa i can't aim as good as the other players :'(

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To be honest, I couldn't be bothered to read the whole post but scanned it.

Some things I will say:


- LG is not overpowered. I've had diarrhea more consistent then QuakeLive's reg. If you're really shit at dodging then that's why you're getting raged by it.

- PG is defiantly not overpowered. As it is now, it's a spam weapon. Occasionally close range battle weapon but for the most part it's nowhere near as fun to use as it was in Q3 where it was an alternative to LG

- Rockets don't need to bounce people more. That would make +back defensive rockets even more powerful (and that would ROCK!)

- Tank Jr isn't the best model for hitboxes. Keel is.]

- Railgun 80 dmg is bleh. 90 pleez.

"- LG is not overpowered. I've had diarrhea more consistent then QuakeLive's reg. If you're really shit at dodging then that's why you're getting raged by it."

I pretty much agree with this. LG is fine as it is. Only the netcode could be better.

"- PG is defiantly not overpowered. As it is now, it's a spam weapon. Occasionally close range battle weapon but for the most part it's nowhere near as fun to use as it was in Q3 where it was an alternative to LG"

PG is fine. Here again, only the netcode could be improved to make it easier to use especially with med to high ping. Btw ql pg firerate is a bit faster than vq3 pg firerate.
and plasma is not only a spam weapon, in fact it's the most balanced weapon, basically good at all ranges, bu VERY hard to master at all ranges. you can spam to death a railer while you're trying to rush him, you can counter a lg whore at mid range, if you play defensive enough and your predictions are insanely good, for for that ofc you need the right ping :). and at close range, like you said, it can definitely be a deadly weapon, especially when you trap someone in a corner :), it doesn't make the opponent bounce everywhere and then it's a bit easier to keep high accuracy on him in certain situations.

"- Rockets don't need to bounce people more. That would make +back defensive rockets even more powerful (and that would ROCK!)"

I agree with this. rockets are strong enough, they can even be used at mid range efficiently.

"- Tank Jr isn't the best model for hitboxes. Keel is.]"

THAT'S 100% TRUE :D

"- Railgun 80 dmg is bleh. 90 pleez."

NO PLS NO WAY. OMFG NO PLS PLS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

pg is fine? its hardly used in combat, there's like 2 guys in the world who are known to use pg in a situation where they have a choice of weaponry

By He4rTL3sS ++'

yes, pg is fine. it's not supposed to be a replacement for the rl/lg or rail, it's a "tier2" weapon, just like the SG (rail shaft and rox are tier3, and gaunt, mg are tier1). but if you're REALLY good with it, it can be as good, if not better, as the lg/rl/rail in some situations. would need some projectile antilag tho.

just one thing : use keel not tankJr ...

As far as I know, rockets do 100dmg for a direct hit, but 1-80dmg for splash hits, so you can in theory only do 4dmg with 4 rockets, if you hit them far enough away. You shouldn't rely on splash so much but try and get more direct hits (though still aim at feet ofc).

The lg is really punishing if you get caught in a bad position, consider it does 7dmg per shot, to frag a 200/200 it only takes around 50 hits (I think), which can happen very fast. If you have a lot of momentum and run "into" an LG firing, the opponent can pretty much get 80% acc, since you cant dodge side to side, which is the most effective dodge against the lg.

play promode its better than warsow at least, id imagine most warsow players left arent very good

the only thing i will add is that you should use Keel and not tankjr

use cg_crosshairhitstyle 2 for lg
use keel

learn how to use rl properly... it's a much stronger weapon than it as in q3.

what he said

rl is overpowered in ql.

strong, definitely

overpowered, no way !

Sounds like you are not very good at dodging if you have trouble with LG and even PG. Practice that stuff.

lg seems to be insanely overpowered, with a full stack brought down in less than a second, and pg seems equally overpowered

Yea, he's either jumping, strafing forward/backward (towards opponent) or standing still.

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Ah I understand a little better now.

It must be your ping, how high is it? I only tend to play on 40ping or less servers, so I haven't really experianced this for a long time.

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no, it has to do with how you get routed to the server ;)

Make sure you use cg_lagometer 2, it will display your correct ping. having a ping that flucuates from 50-90 could account for missed rails, getting hit with huge chunks of lg (when ur ping spikes) and getting hit around corners.

You ideally want a ping that is stable. Make sure you have the optimum connection settings in your config.

Also, what monitor are you using? If your using a cheap lcd/tft, that can also make a huge, huge difference.

I started out using wireless and an old 60hz tft monitor, nasty :(

Obviously using ethernet afterwards was a big help, but I still got outaimed massively. I remember playing Torzelan, I had control and a full stack, and he just outaimed me and won :( It was him that strongly recommended a CRT monitor to me; and the difference is absolutely massive, he was right about that. A CRT or one of the new 120hz lcd's is well worth getting for quake.

Hope this is of some help.

What you're saying describes warping fairly accurately I think.

Theres times when a warper will be perfectly still (between warps), and you can get 100% LG acc on them.

You can't tell its happening to you either, unless you ask the other player, theres been times where people told me I'm warping, but I had no idea, and my ping and lagometer read fine...

Yeah, those stupid cheaters can bend the LG beam so that you take damage when standing behind a wall. I'd ban them for life.

If your missing rails because of timing (eg, shooting through), try different settings for cg_predictlocalrailshots.. also I heard cl_timenudge is working now, this might help also.

With regards to LG, play with cg_truelightning till you find something comfortable. I've always found using LG for defending an area rather good, or any example where your enemy is running towards you. (push back is great for stopping him getting items).

RL is great for suprising enemies or rushing an area (like MH on ztn coming from above, try defending that with LG!).

Also make sure you have the best positions on the map, learn where you think they are and start using them to your advantage.

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Try reading here : http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...lrailshots

Also, i've edited my post, includes more info now :)

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Yep that's probably it. You will have to get used to firing infront of your opponent though. If you still have trouble hitting don't forget to try cl_timenudge -10/-20 etc.

timenudge with adaptive lag compensation? nice

no, you won't.

ql has so called 'unlagged' netcode for hitscan weapons (rg/sg/lg/mg?), anything but predictrailshots 1 and truelightning 1 is going to be very misleading.

i dislike ql's implementation of timenudge, but maybe it'll help with pings over 50ms.

It's the exact opposite.

cg_predictlocalrailshots 1 simply draws the rail instantly after it is fired. It doesn't matter if you have 15 ms or 300 ms. The rail shot will appear the same. THIS is what's misleading.

cg_predictlocalrailshots 0 draws the rail beam where the server sees/counts it. This will appear _very_ different in 15 ms vs. 300 ms. Try it for yourself.

The unlagged netcode has nothing to do with predictlocalrailshots.

cg_truelightning 1 _supposedly_ uses an unlagged netcode. Although I strongly suspect that something else entirely is going on. One piece of evidence is if you turn on marks (cg_marks 1), and shoot at the wall on a laggy server you'll see the marks appear in a very lagged sort of way. Set cg_truelightning 0, and suddenly the marks are dead on.

That is closer to the way truelightning worked in q3, and although sync has stated that truelightning 1 uses a client side prediction to register hits I certainly don't feel it behaves that way in-game. I submit two pieces of evidence, one the predominance of players shying away from truelightning 1, and two the marks on the walls experiment.

I'd suggest three, it just doesn't feel that way but that is a lot less scientific. If it is true that truelightning 1 is more like the way q3 uses it, then it would unquestionably be the 'misleading' choice.

excuse me if this sounds rude... but who are you?

i based what i wrote on the bits of info the guys from id shared with us regarding the netcode.
unless my memory fails me i'm pretty sure that both lg and rg are "unlagged" and that syncerror stated that we should use predictrailshots and truelg 1 so we don't have to deal with unregistered shots.

maybe there's (similar to warsow) a built-in maximum ping the netcode works with? do you mind sharing your sources?

Predictrailshots is a setting that affects only the railtrail graphic. It has absolutley no bearing on where/when the actual shot is fired. If that's not what you meant, I apologize, but that's what it sounded like.

yes, and because there is backwards hit reconciliation 1 should be the correct value?

ok, from doing some rough tests i believe it's pretty much like i wrote above. ql's 'unlagged' netcode (server-side backwards reconciliation of hits) does work up to ~80-100ms then things go ugly.

15ms vs 300ms isn't exactly the range of pings this was designed for.

Yes, you are wrong and either your aim or your movement completely blows if you lose 200/200 vs 100/50 fights.

If anything, rockets are slightly too powerful compared to lg. I would like the wobbly lg reintroduced if it was ping independent, and a damage increase. Then we will see who can actually shaft well, and it will severely punish huge mistakes where you can easily track.

Oh, and I actually use TankJr over Keel, Keel's model fucks me over due to overcompensation with lg aim..

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So you just have horrible aim. Considering what your skill level likely is considering those accuracies, I would probably hit 35-40% shaft and 50-60% rail on average against you in a duel.

The weapon balance is actually pretty much the opposite of what you describe on higher levels of play.

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in the end deji is spot on, the level of aim in ql is superior to what you probably remember from q3. you can't get away with accuracies like this.

lg should be in the 30's and rail atleast in the high 40's, i know how this sounds, but it is true :p

oh and positioning > *. watch rapha and cypher, they know where to be on a map at any given time.

dont forget his ping, ~75ms is challenging to get above 30% LG :P

esp in duel where u tend to hold fire sometimes on a corner when ur enemy is low and waiting there etc...

I absolutely cannot get 30 lg at 70+ ping

Overall accuracy with 25 or low 30s ping: 26-33%

Overall accuracy with 70-85 ping: 17-22%

Overall accuracy with 25 or low 30s ping: 26-33%

uhm... ever tried aiming at your opponents? :D

k, not sure why you couldn't resist that. That's in line with what rapha gets actually... if you're going to talk shit we should discuss every other aspect of the game, where I am unbelievably bad, as opposed to the one area where I have actually proportionate/mediocre stats. lol

yeh, that was a cheap shot.

still, i was trying to make a point. on ping 25-30 you should be able to get your lg accuracies in the high 30's (that actually means that you should be able to hit 45+ in perfect conditions).

maybe you spam a lot, maybe your positioning is letting you down. but 33% max at a sub 30 ping is not good enough.

Haha there are only a few guys who actually hit more then 35+ lg constantly vs other good players. I'm talking about duel lg which is totally different from any other game mode. Every retard can have a 40+ lg if you use it only in certain situations such as +forwarding idiots or jump pad shafting. Lg accuracy is overrated because it totally depends on how you use it. So yeah someone who is constantly aiming 33lg in duels vs good players could be called as decent lg aimer. Anyway you don't need a strenx lg to win duels, ofc it allows you moves and opens opportunities but rockets+brain are far more important.

maybe exactly this is the point: if you have good reaction time you aim exactly what you see, and player model is not where you see it on high ping -so it's like the more you aim "good" the more you shoot into thin air?

You are wrong. Play more, learn the game better.

If you want to know when to use which weapon and how to use it, watch Cypher's games. He uses the best weapon combination atm and he's a player which often doesn't commit 100% to the fight but every time he meets his opponent he deals INSANE amount of dmg in short period of time. Weapon choice + positioning + aiming is what you have to learn and it takes years to master :-P

this ^

Soo true!! but cypher also steals his demos.xdxd so you can't see the alien-ninja shit happen most of the time=)

Sir, some of us prefer our game to cater to OUR preferences... not some ethereal ideal of a "community" based around some magical notion of "competition".

Yes but it's a good learning material nevertheless, especially for people who don't understand fully yet how Quake works. Everybody has his own play style but mixing it up a little bit here and there doesn't harm anyone's game because you can always go back. If new players don't know what to do in game, they should just try to copy good players :-P

Sounds like you also believe supreme executive power should derive from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony.

I'm not the best around but I found that using CPM hit sounds helped my rocket based game immensely. By knowing exactly how much damage I've done with rocket splash, I find it easier to decide whether to chase or not. Are you using it?

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Give it a shot then. I think the cvar is cg_hitsounds 2 or something like that. It's there in the menu under advanced settings.

I think we REALLY NEED RAIL 100 dmg since its the most important weapon to regain control vs decent oppponents.
You know mh = 100hp ra= 100 so making your opponent pay will make the pickup useless but 80 rail dmg means you need to hit 2 rails or rail/rocket combo which is too hard vs DECENT opponents.

Oh and LG 8-8-8 + increased knockback would be great

vq3 weapon balancing is perfect

well, if this troll isnt obvious then i dont know what is

Yes, you are. Rockets are very powrful, im improving my rocket prediction and using cooller style rocket firing delay and when i dont miss i always kill lg whore. lg is fine too, if you do a good lock you suck down hps quickly as it should. rail is fine too. keep playing warsow if you like it, but ql weapon balance is pretty ok nowadays...

what is this cooller style rocket firing delay? could you explain, please?

basically he doesn't spam rl, he waits the right moment to press fire so that instead of dealing 25dmgs there and 30 dmgs here he does 70+ with only one well placed rocket.

sounds like your dodging skills aren't quite up to par. TBH I think RL is the most powerful wep in the game

Of course it is. Rapha Cooller Av3k Cypher are all known for their crazy rocket skills.

LG is extremely difficult to master and doesn't give you that much of an advantage usually (Stermy & Strenx not nearly as dominant as all those RL pwners).

sif cypher isn't up there with strenx and stermy with 40 % lg on LAN

i dont care about accs

me neither

imho he outshafts even strenx and stermy

as the eastern european cypher fanbois say: he even lg's the corpses and doesn't give a fuck about +acc, but he still has 35-40 lg

he doesn't and it's not a matter of opinion. accel makes his aim too inconsistent. (still amazing shaft ofc)

Of course it is. Rapha Cooller Av3k Cypher are all known for their crazy rocket skills.

rapha = very good with defensive rl mainly
cypher = offensive/defensive/flick rl

cooller = good rl ofc, but not as good as cypher's, only to name him
av3k = plasma, balanced and smart player, i wouldn't say that his rockets are as good as cypher's or even rapha's defensive rox

i have to agree with your complaints. i got the same feeling about weapons in ql, but i just can't say what it is exactly. it just seems unbalanced.
i've also been a fairly good ra3 player a few years back, but i can't get a grip on ql.

ra3 weapon balance was terrible.

wish I had enough time to take up ql ...

As a Quake2 player, every weapon in Q3 or QL always seemed underpowered to me. Fucking Duplo games I often say :)

q2 is shit.

your cheats didn't work there ?

no it's shit cuz rail is imba, rl is slow, shaft > mg, and it's too much "tactical" for a quake, not as fun to play as qw for example.

q2 was the shit, sad it almost always suffered from players with elitist POV's and intent to punish you over any measurable range for being a beginner :)

It had a weird community if ever a game had one :)

Oh I see, that's why you often play on instagib servers...

i hope they dont hurt hard ur duplo ..........................

lg does 140dps, if you have full stack, how can you die in less tan a second? Rockets are faster and more powerfull than in quake3 and the splash damage is ridiculous and kinda bugged sometimes...