hooray, 1st

1st to reply to 1st :)

He couldn't join any better.

p.s. he's name is Mazur

Ahh, the silvermining industry will be kept alive by SK :)

gratz, best luck to him
although im not sure why sk picked him/someone so soon. imho they should have waited a bit longer and see how he does in actual lan tournaments

didn't they pick rapha somewhat early too? turns out it was a good decision after all :)

poor guy :)

"has build his reputation winning several large online tournaments over the last couple of months."

and losing when someone good played :P

true dat

Good luck Bogdan!

gl bodzo! :)

surprising, good luck though

hmm weird choice, I don't think he can deliver what people are usually expecting from the SK tag.

like zero4?

i think zero4 performed better then bodzo will - but lets wait and see

i see you mentioned the god of quake, so i considered [+]ing you

you mean the guy to never have beaten cooller?

cooller being the only player to have beaten the best of every generation with the exception of fatality

didnt cooller beat fat in q4 once?

not sure, I didn't have much interest in that

all i know is toxic didn't become insane until cooller started his whole 'I don't give a fuck'
also, did cooller beat avek in q4 at any time?

i do recall a demo here of him losing to fat tho, not sure if it was the only time they played

Cooller not giving a fuck is a load of shit. He cares.

er? lol?

he stopped going to events altogether (i cba to copy paste from history timeline go check for yourself) as well as doing stupid shit in matches and turning up late only to find himself disqualified

he said in loads of interviews he didn't care much anymore and was focusing on real life

watch him play the games vs zero4 at ESWC compared to the others he played during the event, that's caring (playing for his reputation)

he's not the only player to have done it either

He stopped playing professionally in 2006, it's not about whether he 'cares', but the time he puts in nowadays is nothing compared to before.

Now this is something I can agree with.

I don't think so, I think they only played the one game in the finals and he lost.

yeah, i mean the guy who won the most (5) by far since 99, and mostly played final when he didn't win, a.k.a. the god of quake, john hill.

he could have quit after 2003, and would still be the best ever, 3 Quakecon finals after 2003 aside.

All of ZeRo4's tournament wins were in BO1 competitions. Big fucking deal some of his big tournament wins have player fields worse than a generic ASUS cup do now, let alone back when the game had an active community.

In 2003 he got beat hard in the ESWC final, the year prior he had a massive loss to a poor Fatal1ty and got beat hard by cooller.

So why 2003?
Any chance it's because he stopped winning when the rules got tougher (BO3) and the competition (cooller) was stronger?

ZeRo4 was still actively playing in 2004, he just got fucked up by cooller (again) at ESWC and cXg.

All of ZeRo4's tournament wins were in BO1 competitions.

wrong.

Big fucking deal some of his big tournament wins have player fields worse than a generic ASUS cup do now, let alone back when the game had an active community.

Like cpl babbages? WCG? Which QuakeCon?

In 2003 he got beat hard in the ESWC final

beat hard with 2:1, 1 tons-of-luck frag difference on ztn? pure ownage. i laughed.

the year prior he had a massive loss to a poor Fatal1ty and got beat hard by cooller.

i dont see fatal1ty got anything to do with cooller. and btw yeah, got beat hard = 10:8 on t2. i laughed again. do you even know the scores or you're new and mix some things up?


So why 2003?
Any chance it's because he stopped winning when the rules got tougher (BO3) and the competition (cooller) was stronger?

cause quake basically died, got rejected by cpl, wcg, and left only with low budget eswc + quakecon, which he mostly owned.

ZeRo4 was still actively playing in 2004, he just got fucked up by cooller (again) at ESWC and cXg.

why do you talk about stuff you know nothing about? so i have to give you a free history lesson. or maybe you forgot, dunno. so here goes. eswc 2004 was team-based, with USA vs SWE in the finals. now when you know that one, you probably also know that cxg was never finished. right? and again t4 was 1 frag difference, ztn was 1 frag difference when they played.

and as far as quakecon2004 goes, he devastated czm in wb finals, and almost beat him in the finals, after not playing quake at all before quakecon. the guy played golf and didn't touch pc for months (czm quote). and* he beat cooller on hub, easily.

so you have a guy who played since 99, beat players like lakerman, fatal1ty, zamuz, lexer, fox, czm, cooller throughout all those years, won as many majors than all others put together, and was on top even almost 10 years after, on one side.

on the other side you have cooller with 2 eswc titles, one of which depended on czm's missed rocketjump.

its pretty much self-explanatory.

Name all of ZeRo4s big BO3 Lan event wins then...

If you're going to be honest, they weren't exactly filled to the brim with a superstar cast like ESWC 2003 was. The first two Quakecons he won were pathetic competition wise and the 2003 event didn't even have cooller, off of his ESWC victory.

I watch the games, not the scores (or esr/gtv talk) and he got beat hard, especially by Fatal1ty (Who matters because I'm talking about ZeRo4 not being the best ever).

What CPL event happened in 2003?
Or do you just need to include that because LeXeR won Quakecon 2002, uNkind won WCG 2002 and ZeRo4 didn't place well in either of those tournaments and without the Quakecon 2003 victory he looks like a complete washed up scrub.

ESWC 2004 may have been team based but the two major maps that he played, against Cooller and Fox, he lost. As for cXg, the loser brack final (ZeRo4 vs Elpajou) and the grand final weren't played but Cooller won the winner bracket final with a dominating performance on pro-q3tourney7 (The three agreed to split the money with the placings as 1. cooller 2. zero4 and 3. elpajou, so they seemed happy enough to see it being concluded as such).

It's nice of you to bring up how all he did was play golf prior to Quakecon 2004 but cooller claimed (and the Russian players talked about it too) that he had just been messing about with his girlfriend and had never played hub3aeroq3 before...

Lakerman is one of the most overrated players ever a flash in the pan if anything, a washed up Fatal1ty in 2002 demolished ZeRo4 before quitting Q3 because he could no longer cut it himself and Cooller has beaten pretty much every other notable name with way more titles than ZeRo4 could even dream of.

The only reason why czm even got a chance at a comeback versus cooller on pro-q3dm6 was because of a messed up rocket jump by cooller to the rocket launcher earlier in the game... Besides these games are all about executing the ideas one had, czm failed.

Like I said, I watch the games not the scores (or esr/gtv talk).

actually, as well as that fucked up rocket jump, cooller attempts 3 air rockets in a row vs czm @ the YA jump pad while he has shaft and could have eaisly killed him

a classic, you idiot moment for cooller :D

also out of all the maps zero4 and cooller have played, zero4 has only managed to take a couple

cooller best ever.

frag difference is kinda more important. 1 frag ztn x 2, 1 frag dm6...not really convincing.

if frag difference is important then so is the level of competition you're playing against as well as the tournament structure and number of maps won

there goes your bullshit bo1 wins against shit competition

frags dif means absolutly nothing, the guy who has the MOST frags at the end of a map wins the map.

map wins are what count.

means NOTHING? you can't be serious. 1 or 2 frag difference instead of, let's say, 20 frag difference SURELY means A LOT.

end of the day, its the maps that count

frag counts also dont always tell the whole picture anyway

Well, nothing tells the whole picture except... the whole picture =]

Well, frag difference is far from a 100% fool-proof indicator of skill levels. Aggressive players are more likely to win or lose by large margins, while defensive players in control of a game will keep the score way down, and don't forget that different maps produce different average frag totals. Also, In a close game, whoever is behind towards the end will be forced to attack, whether he's in control or not. That could turn a 1-frag game into a comprehensive victory in a very short amount of time.

Another factor is the psychology. If someone knows they've lost with 5 minutes to go, they may start mg rushing and generally acting like a moron. Similarly, someone who knows they've won might relax a little, let control slip out of their grasp and just coast the last 2 minutes to victory. And, if someone is raged going into it, or has an especially bad start that demoralises them, you might see a 50-frag raping.

Sometimes the fragcount tells you what happened, but most of the time it's the victory that matters, not the scoreline.

Exactly, so it's not like the score doesn't mean anything. If it's a rape then the score means either one of the players suck (compared to the opponent at least) OR the game was kinda close but towards the end one had to do risky things trying to catch up and then lost it all, for example.

If it's a close low score: most probably the game was slow. Close high score: most probably the game was fast.

I mean, c'mon, it's not like scores don't say anything, that's far from the truth. And it's not like it says everything either.

a game ends up 18-0 and all it means is that one player missed one rail in an equal match.

umm, no.

wanna bet?

well, if you have a demo to show that...

sure

and when exactly was that miraculous one rail that ruined it? he missed a lot of rails.

It doesn't really matter, because that wasn't the ONLY thing that made that happen. And EVEN if it was, it would be an exception. But I would like to know when exactly anyway...

cba watching, fox drops down from mid facing lg and misses a rail when tox was low. had he hit he'd have control.

i didn't find any contradiction to what i've wrote. except some personal opinion stuff.

but that aside, how exactly can cooller, who won eswc 2003 and eswc 2005 be best player ever, compared to someone who won everything and everyone before cooller ever showed up, and then still managed to stay at the top when cooller's time became? when zero4 was best, there was no cooller. when cooller was best, zero4 was there to make him sweat. its simple.

nowadays, cooller cant win anything. and he wont win anything. just like zero4 couldnt after 2k4. but his legacy is 5X greater.

can't win anything nowadays?

the guy beat recently beat jibo and cypher on lan, that's the best player of 07/08 and another top 3 player...

granted he didn't beat jibo twice in bo3s :<

ps:

ini: All of ZeRo4's tournament wins were in BO1 competitions.
you: wrong.
ini: name all of ZeRo4s big BO3 Lan event wins then...
you: i didn't find any contradiction to what i've wrote.

(if you bothered to look, you'll find he's right)

fail.

Well, he didn't win everything or everyone though did he. That's the point...

As for the personal opinion stuff, like what?

The lack of best of three tournament wins, or the fact he got beat hard by Fatal1ty, generally his 2002 was a complete failure as far as the tournaments that mattered went, he lost the two most important games in ESWC 2004 (That he played in) and couldn't compete with cooller on pt7 at cxg.

Not to mention the fact that cooller is still placing in the top3 of LAN events where top players attend, has way more minor event wins, way more best of 3 tournament wins, way more wins over zero4 himself and even managed to win or place top5 in just about every Q4 tournament he entered (although I'll allow you to remove Q4 if you really feel the need).

Aaron is totally blind with fanboyism so i'm gonna reply to you, cause you seem more reasonable.

Just to prove that facts > blind fanboyism.

1) Yes, QuakeCon tournaments are BO1. But they have a loser's bracket. ESWC doesn't. And depending of how you look at it, bo1 can be pretty shitty and random. I don't see how its easier to win.


> You can easily check how many times has ZeRo4 went through a tournament *undefeated*. Key word. *Undefeated*. I'll be back to this part afterwards. And even when you put QCON2K aside, he destroyed *fatal1ty* in 2001, 2003 had *czm*, *z4muz*, *fox*,... (yeah, really nonames), 2004 had best-ever *czm* and in-form *cooller*. And i don't really need to name all the players that attended CPL Babbages, cause it was probably the best tournament ever held. Hub related, there's nothing more pathetic than a professional quake player going for "i don't know the map" whine. i never heard Boxer doing it in Starcraft, or SK doing it in counterstrike. It's a joke. What was the score against the "best player ever"? Ah yes, 55:8.

2) ESWC 2003

Unkind was the reigning champion, and his visa fucking up was a huge luck for Cooller. First 3 players of WCG RU got a place in WCG 2002, the placement was irrelevant, so the fact that Cooller was #1 in the qual doesn't really matter, cause it made no difference for the players. No motivation whatsoever, as long they were top3. Unkind, Cooller, and Death.

> so, the *undefeated* part.

After the ESWC2003 tournament was finished, ZeRo4 had *2* losses. 1 to Cooller, 1 to Fazz. Cooller had *2* losses. 1 to socrates, 1 to LeXeR. Convincing stuff from a dominating champion? Not really.

3) ESWC 2005

The fanboys obviously forget one small detail. this

When someone mentioned fatal1ty, i really needed to mention this one. This extremely nice and polite guy, who was constantly abused by that russian big-mouthed bitch, came to France, and did this to Cooller. Rape is an understatement to what Toxic did to Cooller on this dm6. Followed by funny quotes, taunts, and taste of his own medicine x 20. A Facial. Cooller just stfu'd. Was really nice.

And another thing. Toxic didn't make it through the group, even though he destroyed Cooller. ESWC finds *map wins* more important than *vs*. Funny enough, Cooller seriously whined about this system when he got knocked out of 2008 ESWC. But it was good for him @ 2005. So technically, in a fair system, he would never even pass his group in ESWC2005. But the guy who was better than him was kicked out. Yes, Aaron, the guy who was *better* than him, Toxic.

4) In 2008, they went to face each other in the group decider for who goes through. ZeRo4 needed 1 map to kick Cooller out. He took his strongest one, dm9, easily. And kicked Cooller out.

At the end, i'll just add that i laughed my ass off when Cypher telefragged him on that ztn. It was just his 2002 bitch-karma coming back to him. Was just a matter of time.

End.

In a BO3 and group stage system you have to play more opponents and play them on more maps which makes the tournament more difficult to win (This is fairly simple logic here).

In ESWC 2003 only the semi-final was single elimination, and they both won their semi-final after both having come second in the second group stage.

Whether you are undefeated running up to a final or not is irrelevant, all that matters is that you win the tournament.

Quakecon 2003 didn't have the two players who beat ZeRo4 at ESWC, Cooller and Fazz, nor did it have the years previous world champion uNkind (Who cooller had beaten comfortably in a show match at ASUS Summer, but played seriously as it was considered the decider between two world champions). czm, z4muz and fox while all strong players were not the strongest at that period if you look at it results wise. So ZeRo4 got really quite lucky at that tournament...

Quakecon 2000/2001 were weak, best of one tournaments that are only considered big due to the virtue of it being "run" by id software. CPL Babbages was also a best of one tournament and while fairly strong was still largely a USA event (Lots of notable players are missing). The same can't be said for ESWC 2003, 2005 or cXg (QLAN was pretty much EU only).

I don't really care if it's pathetic or not to say he'd never played the map before, he clearly hadn't. I think it's equally pathetic to claim you only played Golf prior to the tournament (Even though he played at cXg and ESWC 2004). In fact, ZeRo4 got served on a map he had played and practiced at cXg, pro-q3tourney7.

The Toxic game has been blown out of complete proportion by people who don't like cooller. As Skint has already explained in another post here, frags don't matter, cooller had already lost the game early on (And ultimately he only needed one map against Toxic to go through, which he won easily).

You really need to learn how the ESWC system works I'm afraid. It's the matchups that count, not maps, just in this situation Cooller had beaten Fox, Fox had beaten Toxic and Toxic had beaten Cooller. So the rules looked to the other matchups and Toxic had lost a map against keeper.

As for 2008, maybe you're right and he did whine but could you provide a link since I don't recall any whine from Cooller, he mentioned it but he didn't complain. Still, he was triumphant over ZeRo4 who is yet to beat the Russian in a BO3 match (The only match system worth taking into account).

CPL Babbage's
* 1. Zero4 $25,000
* 2. LakermaN $15,000
* 3. DOOMer $10,000
* 4. C3 $8,000
* 5. CZM $6,000
* 6. B10key $5,000
* 7. Fatal1ty $4,000
* 8. Elan $3,000
* 12. Insano $1,000
* 12. Treble $1,000
* 12. ProZac $1,000
* 12. Serm $1,000

That was hardly, the strongest possible attendance at the time. It's good, but not that good.

Quakecon 2001
* 1. Zero4 $30,000
* 2. Fatal1ty $10,000
* 3. ReVeNaNt $5,000
* 4. Socrates
* 5. CZM
* 6. Demonic

Very weak attendance.

You really need to learn how the ESWC system works I'm afraid. It's the matchups that count, not maps

zero4 has beaten chance 2:1, chance has beaten cooller 2:0, and cooller has beaten zero4 2:1. its pretty much similar with 2k5 stuff.

yes, toxic was kicked cause he lost ONE map to KEEPER, who had nothing to do with the situation of the three. and as far as i remember, toxic vs cooller was played early in the group, so i doubt cooller knew how would things turn up later on. but i cant find any coverage now cause eswc links don't exist anymore.



at 2k8, after nodm9 was over, zero4 was through. if he needed to win 2, who knows how would ztn turn out.

regarding cooller vs unkind showmatch, i dont really know how serious was it, after all, it was just a showmatch. and as far as i remember unkind stopped playing actively after his visa got rejected for the eswc.

> cpl babbages had the best the world had to offer at that moment quake-wise. there was literally *noone* missing. and that makes it best ever. eswc 2k3 missed unkind, and fatal1ty (sort of), cxg never finished, and eswc 2k5 wasn't on the level of 2k3.

Americans were dominating quake in 2000, 2001, so i dont see any problem with beating fatal1ty or lakerman in that time. They were the best players of that time, along with polosatiy.

Edit: I don't really care if it's pathetic or not to say he'd never played the map before, he clearly hadn't. I think it's equally pathetic to claim you only played Golf prior to the tournament (Even though he played at cXg and ESWC 2004). In fact, ZeRo4 got served on a map he had played and practiced at cXg, pro-q3tourney7.

what exactly makes you think zero4 practiced t7 ever before?

to that, the quote about golf is a quote from czm ABOUT zero4. that's hardly a lie.

and btw, zero4 also sucked at hub, bigtime. it was his worst map by far, and he came to eswc as strong on it as cooller was probably. but he didn't embarrass himself and lose by 50 frags, he took fox ( who played an even match with czm ) to sudden death.

You really don't understand how the ESWC system works. The three players in 2005 were tied completely against each other, the only logical and fair way to decide the group was by looking at the other matchups.

I didn't argue about what happened in 2008, I asked for proof of cooller whining and complaining about it since I don't remember that at all.

The show match between uNkind and Cooller was a pretty seriously taken game, but it was still a show match. Nevertheless, even if uNkind hadn't played any Q3 since his Visa was denied, Cooller pretty much always overcame him previously.

The reason why it looks like Americans dominated the Q3 scene in 2000 and 2001 is because nearly all of the tournaments with big money (Thus the ones seen as serious) were based in America. You didn't see many Europeans attending and certainly didn't see many Russians.

CPL Babbage's for example was missing, b100.death, pow3r, pele and LeXeR (Let alone other Europeans). CPL Holland was equally as big a tournament, Fatal1ty came 3rd, b100.death won.

ESWC 2003 had, one player of note missing and it's debateable whether ESWC 2005 really had any from that period.

While cXg didn't finish properly, the final results were fairly predictable, it's unlikely that elpajou would have beaten ZeRo4 and it's likely ZeRo4 would have lost another BO3 against cooller.

ZeRo4 had clearly practiced pro-q3tourney7 as much as anyone else at the tournament and had to play it several times before his game against cooller (He beat czm on it).

I didn't say that ZeRo4 was lieing about having only played golf, I was saying how it's equally pathetic to make that claim (Whether it's true or not). I happen to believe both of them, why do you assume Cooller is lieing but ZeRo4 is not (ZeRo4 must have told czm).

ZeRo4 didn't suck at hub3aeroq3 by Quakecon 2004, he had practiced with czm on it before and during ESWC and he was clearly up there with fox (Who wasn't far off of czm who had been playing it a lot for a while).

Skint has already explained why frag count is essentially meaningless, so stop raving on about massive frag differences.

While cXg didn't finish properly, the final results were fairly predictable, it's unlikely that elpajou would have beaten ZeRo4 and it's likely ZeRo4 would have lost another BO3 against cooller.

1 frag matches are predictable? since when? you're saying that it couldn't be 2:0 for either player after 2 games? like bo3 they played in 2003 eswc? or bo3 they played at cxg? they could have.

ZeRo4 had clearly practiced pro-q3tourney7 as much as anyone else at the tournament and had to play it several times before his game against cooller (He beat czm on it).

what does that prove? czm obviously doesn't know t7, and if zero4 played it in the tourney, it surely isn't 10% of cooller knowing the map from the russian 2v2s at asus cups. and the map is terrible. hub is still here today.

I didn't say that ZeRo4 was lieing about having only played golf, I was saying how it's equally pathetic to make that claim (Whether it's true or not). I happen to believe both of them, why do you assume Cooller is lieing but ZeRo4 is not (ZeRo4 must have told czm).

Cause ZeRo4 doesn't have anything to do with this. What i said is what czm said in a post-final interview. The guy even admitted that ZeRo4 could have won the final if he had closed-ear headphones.

ZeRo4 didn't suck at hub3aeroq3 by QuakeCon 2004, he had practiced with czm on it before and during ESWC and he was clearly up there with fox (Who wasn't far off of czm who had been playing it a lot for a while).

the hub match vs fox i talked about happened in eswc2004, not at quakecon2004, and in that time zero4 was terrible on hub. it was pointed out many times, with the story of him going to the "bathroom" and returning to hear the terrible news of hub being played for the final map. czm was destroying him 30:0 in practice matches, it was all said in interviews already. he still took fox to suddendeath. cooller was owned by czm on *quakecon*, and that was later on. QuakeCon wasn't the first tournament to have hub, eswc was. going to *usa* after deciding not to practice a map is a really clever move.

zero4 stopped playing in *2004*. after another FINAL. close final. two thousand and FOUR. the game was O S P in those days. he returned in 2008. in CPMA. cpma has nothing to do with osp. its basically a different game. still, he beat fox, he lost to jibo 2:1 with the last frag on dm9 that could have gone either way. he lost to av3k 2:1, and managed to get passed his group, at least. i dont care about the monitor whine, cause the conditions were the same for all players. and i doubt zero4 was used to playing on a monitor that wasnt even used when he played most of his tournaments.

cooller played actively even in *2007*. but the "best player ever" didn't even manage to GET PASSED HIS GROUP once in 2008. once.

seriously, if he was that good, he wouldn't need little raged men like aaron to make up excuses for him. when zero4 can't win anymore, its cause he "sucks", or is "washed up". aside the fact he played since 99.

the fact that the guy is like...26,27 (dunno exactly?) years old, and has 5 major titles under his belt, with more than *150000$* made with q3 and nothing more to prove is not important, right? he couldn't *possibly* have long passed the days when he was expected to be #1. the guy had a brilliant comeback that noone expected from someone who had his peak in....2001. Yeah, 2001.

But when cooller, who started playing later on, with 2 eswcs and like...*25000$* in total won, if even that much, loses, its cause he "doesn't care", or "doesn't practice". THAT is pathetic. the guy didn't get passed the **first groupstage** in the year 2008. he got schooled. whatever excuse anyone comes up with, zero4's excuse is quite possibly 10 times more convincing. he's old. MUCH older than cooller. in his own words, he's ANCIENT. he has nothing more to prove. he played since 99. Cooller didn't even touch quake in those days. Cooller started when ZeRo4 has passed his best days.

If barely managing and stuggling to beat someone (who is passed his prime long time ago, who was present when quake deathmatch was at the *start*, with the guys who provided styles, ideas, strategies, movement, and all the other stuff that cooller had studied from, the polosatiy demos and his personal tutoring) is so great accomplishment, than zero4 is more of a legend than i say he is.

Hypothetically, If LeBron would beat Michael Jordan after the guy was 40 years old, today, in some kind of a 1v1, i seriously doubt anyone with half a brain would name Lebron the best ever.

Today, Cooller can't win anything. Just as Cooller was beating ZeRo4 when *his* best days were over, today other guys are beating Cooller. Simple as that. He could beat jibo here and there, even beat cypher once, but he can't win a tournament. he can play finals, just like zero4 had at 2k4.

Lets just get one thing straight here, nobody is arguing that ZeRo4 sucks or is a washed up joke of a player. If you want to argue about prize money, then we're both wrong, Fatal1ty is the best Q3 player ever.

In 2002 ZeRo4 was clearly not as active as he had been during 2000-2001 and other players had dedicated much more time into the game. In 2008 Cooller was in the exact same situation and accordingly you saw his performances drop and he didn't place well.

In 2009 he's playing actively again and has got up to speed enough to get into finals against two of the best players from 2008, beating both during the tournament. This is akin to ZeRo4s 2003-2004 performances really...

The cXg result was predictable because:
- ZeRo4 had never and has never won a set of three maps against Cooller.
- ZeRo4 had only ever won pro-q3tourney4 against Cooller.
- ZeRo4 had to win not one but two sets of three maps against Cooller if he got to the Grand Final.

The Cyber X Games was the very first tournament to use pro-q3tourney7 in any capacity (Hadn't been used in ASUS tournaments until after cXg). All the players had reported to have been practicing, so it's very unlikely anyone would have practiced all the other maps and ignored pro-q3tourney7.

The Quakecon 2004 situation is different, Cooller hadn't just not practiced hub3aeroq3, like ZeRo4 he hadn't practiced at all.

The intentions czm had when making the comment, or even that he made it is irrelevant. It's still equally pathetic as the Cooller situation (Cooller didn't make the comment first hand either) and it doesn't matter if Coollers decision was stupid or not quite frankly.

I'm not sure why you've decided to whine about OSP versus CPMA et cetera, I don't care. But for the record, Cooller was playing Quake 4 when the switch to CPMA was made (Placing top four at pretty much all the events he attended).

The Q3 tournament he played in when he returned (CPL), he came into straight from Q4 and lost to czm and Jibo who had been practicing Q3 for a few months.

Today, Cooller is still placing Top3 in tournaments against players who easily beat and placed higher than ZeRo4 in 2008.

If ZeRo4 was so good, he wouldn't need little raged men called Lethe to defend him.

Today, Cooller is still placing Top3 in tournaments against players who easily beat and placed higher than ZeRo4 in 2008.

name one tournament where that happened.

ASUS?

With quite a number of top/semi-top players in attendance.

meaning jibo and cypher, who's at 50% of last year's cypher.

jibo won.

zero4 played with jibo in 2008.

we both know what happened to him on t4. and we both know how dm9 ended. as you said, easy win for jibo.


wanna try something else?

Some of those other Russians at ASUS are very strong too, but unlike you I don't claim ASUS is a major tournament (Hi, Quakecon 2000/2001).

Anyone can just claim a player is at "50%" and discard it. Cooller was at 10% at Quakecon 2004. In 2008 ZeRo4 was playing people at about 20% of their actual ability. Next.

But it's nice how you've stopped trying to defend ZeRo4 at any rate.

You just don't get it, do you?

These guys are NOT ZeRo4's competition. And still, somehow, he manages to give them a hard time. Try to understand, really TRY. Hard. Try.

95% of guys that *were* his competition stopped playing LONG time ago. Fatal1ty. Lakerman. Makaveli. Polosat1y. SteLam. Python. LeXeR. Those guys. He didn't. He stayed and played many finals years after. Years and Years after. Finals that could have gone either way. John Hill, age 27.


He is simply the king of Quake 3 Arena. A Legend. You think the fact that Cooller managed to beat him 2:1 with clutch ztns changes that?

You're delusional.

It's nice to see you've simply fallen back on the good old nostalgia argument. ZeRo4 kept on playing, that made the new players his competition and the new players surpassed all those old names you mentioned even before they quit the scene.

Age is a complete irrelevance in this discussion especially when it's such a minor age difference. ZeRo4 isn't at an age where his ability would be in sharp decline at all.

95% of Cooller's competition (Following your idea here) quit a long time ago too. Where are b100.death, Fazz, LeXeR, Socrates, uNkind and z4muz these days?

Cooller didn't quit, he kept on playing and has managed to keep giving these new players a hard time (Even winning tournaments and beating them at a brand new version of the game!)

The only logical candidtate to choose using your criteria is Fatal1ty. He was first, he dominated, he made loads of money, he quit, he returned and gave all the new players a hard time (3rd at Quakecon 2002).

Age is a complete irrelevance in this discussion especially when it's such a minor age difference. ZeRo4 isn't at an age where his ability would be in sharp decline at all.

so you're an expert at psychology + how gamers age affect their gameplay? explain why today's best guys are 18-20 years old.

95% of Cooller's competition (Following your idea here) quit a long time ago too. Where are b100.death, Fazz, LeXeR, Socrates, uNkind and z4muz these days?

Cooller started after quake was going down, left only with 5k dollars eswc and quakecon, and vast majority of oldshool players lost interest. because of they got "older". you know, the element that "doesn't affect" anything.

Cooller didn't quit, he kept on playing and has managed to keep giving these new players a hard time (Even winning tournaments and beating them at a brand new version of the game!)

sure. if you mean asus cups, he lost much more of those than he won. a player named evil won 4. i've seen cypher win a couple, even nike, and now jibo. 2008 was a waste for him, this year he also didn't win anything, and you can bet he will never be #1 in any tournament. not that there are many left anyway.

The only logical candidtate to choose using your criteria is Fatal1ty. He was first, he dominated, he made loads of money, he quit, he returned and gave all the new players a hard time (3rd at Quakecon 2002).

try this math. compare periods of time from 99-02, with 99-08.



You will probably open you eyes, eventually. I've got nothing more to add.

The reason why the best players today are that "young" is because the older players quit. They had more important things to do than stay playing a game that wasn't going to be able to provide them with a long term future.

The old school players lost interest but that doesn't mean the newer players weren't better or even as good. ZeRo4 has lost more tournaments than he's won too, who cares.

You mean 1999-2002 and 1999-2004 and 2008. Well, despite doing relatively well all things considered in 2008, ZeRo4 was a complete failure and he was the same in 2002.

Ultimately Fatal1ty won more prize money than ZeRo4 did and won and came top 3 in plenty of tournaments. ZeRo4 just kept playing when all the old school players had quit and the game was dieing (So we can just discount 2003-2004 and 2008 anyway)...

The reason why the best players today are that "young" is because the older players quit. They had more important things to do than stay playing a game that wasn't going to be able to provide them with a long term future.

FINALLY. Took you this long? Now you managed to agree with me on this one. ZeRo4 is a part of this.

The old school players lost interest but that doesn't mean the newer players weren't better or even as good. ZeRo4 has lost more tournaments than he's won too, who cares.

If you want to compare oldschool guys with today's players, it's just stupid, and impossible, skill-wise.

You mean 1999-2002 and 1999-2004 and 2008. Well, despite doing relatively well all things considered in 2008, ZeRo4 was a complete failure and he was the same in 2002.

Why was exactly ZeRo4 shit in 2002? Because of that 1 loss to fatal1ty? Things like that happen. But if you mean WCG2002 was a failure cause a little boy who was terrified of playing vs ZeRo4 in the later stages threw his trademark fairplay card, and threw a match to a noob to kick him out, i kinda disagree. He played the WCG winner in a friendly match anyway. It wasn't even close. But i'm glad Cooller got kicked out later on. After all, most matches played afterwards were t4 and ztn. He could have gone far.

4 years are a LONG period of time in Quake. Don't you think? Especially if the game changes in the meantime like it did from 2k4 till the point when he was back. And the guy you, for some reason, consider the "best player ever" was more than active in 2007. Which is a YEAR before. But i more than understand why you ignore *his* achievements in 2008.


Ultimately Fatal1ty won more prize money than ZeRo4 did and won and came top 3 in plenty of tournaments.

Fat was around for maybe 2 and a half years TOPS, in total ffs.

You've almost worked it out.

If you want to compare old school guys with new school guys, it's just stupid, and impossible, skill-wise.

Just to clarify my position on the age thing, I never disagreed that ZeRo4 stopped playing when he did or why, I just think it's irrelevant when discussing who is the "greatest" ever, it's a non-issue.

ZeRo4 didn't accomplish anything of note in 2002. He didn't just lose to Fatal1ty he didn't even finish in the top five at Quakecon and his performance at WCG was poor. He lost to cooller and didn't pick up enough wins to qualify from his group, he came third. Cooller had already qualified, it didn't matter to him if he won or not, his job was done.

Practice games are practice games. It's funny how it was always demos of Americans beating non-Americans in practice games that surfaced before, during and after tournaments and rarely the other way around. I guess the Americans just always win practice games...

I've not even stated who I believe is the greatest player, so I don't know why you think you know.

But anyway, during 2007 Cooller was "actively" playing Quake 4 and he went straight into CPMA VQ3 CPL. Nobody has denied Cooller was shit in 2008, but he still managed to beat ZeRo4 in another best of three.

Fatal1ty was around when Quake 3 was the big game and he more or less dominated the scene, he then quit when the scene started to die, before a brief return in 2002 that was considered unsuccessful but he still managed top 3 at Quakecon.

Cooller had already qualified, it didn't matter to him if he won or not, his job was done.

he didn't threw the match? not funny. :)))))

go see it once more.

But anyway, during 2007 Cooller was "actively" playing Quake 4 and he went straight into CPMA VQ3 CPL. Nobody has denied Cooller was shit in 2008, but he still managed to beat ZeRo4 in another best of three.

CPMAvq3 was introduced in 2006, and the cpl you're talking about was in 2006, not 2007, but anyway.

Actively playing quake4? You don't remember Cooller winning ASUS *2007*, by beating Cypher in the final on 2 x ztn?

Yeah, he was pretty rusty.

NOT.

Again, Cooller was out after second map, nodm9. They both knew it. Try to keep the same standards as above pls.

Fatal1ty was around when Quake 3 was the big game and he more or less dominated the scene, he then quit when the scene started to die, before a brief return in 2002 that was considered unsuccessful but he still managed top 3 at Quakecon.

Why do you keep mentioning fatal1ty? He's not the greatest in any fps ever.

You're right I got 2006 mixed up with 2007, all the same Cooller was still playing Q4 in 2007 and there was no big Q3 tournament in 2007 anyway so I'd hardly call him active. Both Cooller and Cypher were playing Quake4 at that point in time.

I am keeping the same standards. You're the one claiming Cooller threw the match to have ZeRo4 knocked out, not me. I was just using your argument in regards to that match, since you're complaining about it.

As far as I'm concerned, Cooller beat ZeRo4 in every best of three fair and square and Cooller lost to a pro-q3dm6 game to someone in the group stages of WCG 2002 which knocked ZeRo4 out. You can't proove he had a motive, nothing dodgy happens in the demo, the worst you could say is he didn't really try to win (Good luck prooving otherwise though).

Fatal1ty is perfectly relevant, I'm just using your arguments and applying them to Fatal1ty and besides I'd say he's the greatest ever AvsP2 player

don't vedic me bro :))))))))))

But still the fact is that next generation had been learning from z4,fatality,polosat1y and so on...they were the one to set limits and they were the one to PUSH them even further!!!Then eventually other new players came and developed different styles.Im pretty sure that just like cypher was learning from cooller,he did the same from the first generation.Now dont get me wrong here Im not saying z4 is undisputed champion, I myself am a fan of russian quake.Its just that z4 beated the best players from his generation at that time!!Cooller came later and dominated his era.Just recently we had cypher in 08 when everybody was praising his agressive style and nowadays they spit on him cause of his attitude (if he would have won asus im sure that same asslicking from 08 would continue).Ah and not to forget AGE DOES MATTER why the hell do you think all of them are best from ages 16-20!?!?Zero4 is OLD and he probablly lacks of motivation to dedicate to the game as he used to.When he was on his top level he beated everything that was possible at that time then he stopped...yes he could continue like cooller does today but maybe deep down in himself he realises that he cant reach that level again.In their young years they are most thirsty to prove themselfs those are the times when they have that extra inspiration!

Age doesn't affect ability (Not 27) but due to gaming not being a profession one can trust or rely on it's not practical to carry on playing and putting so much time into it.

Yes, of course cooller learnt from other players just as ZeRo4 and Fatal1ty learnt from players before them too (In other quakes).

what does that all have to do with bodzo joining? your spending to much time on esr ;>

I'm just killing some spare time :)

Much rather post crap on ESR than play the mess of the game that is QL TDM...

oke fair enough :)

but seriously if you wanted to rage an idiot you could've done it in a way easier fashion than writing a new 'war and peace'.

Well, I got into it so I gotta carry on right?

Yes, of course cooller learnt from other players just as ZeRo4 and Fatal1ty learnt from players before them too (In other quakes).

oh COME ON

i raise exactly the same points but in the process call you an idiot

i also checked everything over before I considered replying to you so I could give actual evidence, so I guess for your dumb fucking sake it's a good idea you decided not to reply

the only idiot i can think of is the one who decided not to stop your birth.

my bottom cheeks clap for the demo and mentioning toxic, one fat + for u!!

CPL and WCG (his big wins) were all BO1, it was Carmac and constant ESR whine that got the big events to consider and finally adapt the BO3 format. the

quakecon events were poorly run, had sub-par competition (until 03 exception of lexer in 02 oh and he won) and organisers were biased towards the American players, they were also BO1 and had poor map selection (coin toss)

All his minor LAN wins were against shit competition against randoms with the exception of a few names here and there (like wombat, makaveli and so on). cooller has as many, if not more wins on the minor scale than zero4 against comparable and likely better competition

03 onwards speaks for itself

that said, zero4 is undoubtedly one of the greats, the top 3 easily (without question) go fatality, zero4, and cooller (no order)

you could argue their positions of 1 2 and 3 and find good reasons for all of them at any place, but only one of them managed to beat the bigger level of competition during the absolute peaks of skill under quality tournament rules and never dropped a set of maps against zero4

read:

COOLLER BEST PLAYER EVER AHHAHAHAHAHAHA

what about unkind???

cooller beat unkind before wcg 02 (rape on dm6) then won their showmatch bo3

unkind still alltimes win tho

FUCKING BLOOD RUN MASTER

i mean the guy who won the most (5) by far since 99

won as many majors than all others put together

So am I right in thinking you're counting ZeRo4's "majors" as: Babbages CPL, WCG 2001, QCON 2000, QCON 2001, QCON 2003?

Cos:
a) QCON 2000 was a joke in comparison to even other QCON events:
i) the 2nd place finisher was Matador and ZeRo4's prize was a PC.
ii) the tournament was Q3DM13 and Q3DM6 only and that's normal Q3DM6, not pro-Q3DM6 which didn't exist at the time. That map was appalling.
b) As ini mentioned some of those QCON events had overall fields which weren't as good as some of the ASUS events in Russia.
c) For Russian players to get visas to attend American events has always been notoriously difficult.
d) Cooller had never played hub before as this quote from an interview suggests:

"Let's remember QuakeCon 2004, when I lost only two games for the whole time of Zero4 and CZM because the lototron gave AeroWalk-map which was absolutely new for me."

Sure he lost to him but that's not even vaguely the same as ZeRo4 being beaten on T4, T2, ztn and dm6 which were all 1000x more established than aerowalk was in Q3 at that time.

Sure he lost to him but that's not even vaguely the same as ZeRo4 being beaten on T4, T2, ztn and dm6

ZeRo4 never lost t4 vs Cooller, t2 is the dumbest map ever made, and was dropped because of that reason ages ago, every ztn they ever played finished with 1 frag difference that could have gone either way, also dm6 was overtime sudden death in 2k4. vs ZeRo4, a.k.a. a guy who's prime was long passed.

cheers.

good to hear they still pick up people

wtf

lal :O)

oh no , is this some kind of joke

SK.a1r-r41d
muhahah
just joking :P

:D will never happend, i think its quite strange that they just pickup a guy..

of course bodzo is good, but remember almost no quake3 pro plays QL on a serious level yet ... :\

anyway i wish him good luck and prove me wrong

it's cheaper and better to pick up someone small but with actual potential in QL and make them a star, than to pick up someone who was a star in Q3

old stars will ask for more and have a higher risk of getting bored of the game/not liking it because it's not Q3, and they're getting older every day, how many of them are going to be here playing once tournaments start

no tournies besides qcon

o rly

no meaningful*
;)

o rly (emphasis on future)

look whos jealous :)

raged

a1r-r4g3d

obviously:

se a1r-r41d 3 hours ago
+0 thumbs Thumb Down Thumb Up
Goodluck to Bodzo, but i doubt he will grab any prize money at any bigger event..

That's from the SK article :)

gg bodzo
bodzo winz xD

he played much ql, he is one of the best players atm in ql (i know i know ) so gl for him, realy super chance for him, 7/10 of us want to join such a great clan as SK!

from what i have seen in the last cups , is that he is a decent player, but whenever a good / pro player shows up he loses, anyone can be good if u have enough time to prac, later the talented people will take over anyway. SK made the same mistake with wc3, picking up a cheap player with 'potential' but he didn't bring in any results this year, I would feel ashamed playing under the sk tag

*cheap player as is in he didn't cost a lot, see most of the wc3 pro players have a decent salary

Couldn't be further from the truth.

First of all this whole "talent" thing is a bunch of bs, there is not a single player who has got to the top without putting in a ton of play time. The fact that some are not practicing much at the moment doesn't mean they didn't in the past or more likely they are simply hiding from the "public" behind their fake nicks

In fact I'm sure the principle reason SK recruited him, is exactly because the dedication he has shown to the game. Playing in nearly every quakelive competition while basically always making atleast top3. Dedication, hard work and a willingness to learn from your mistakes (i.e. not afraid to lose) are the real "talents" which determine if someone becomes a top player. Thats the sort of player SK gaming is looking for and thats why they picked up bodzo (and now pickup fooki ffs!)

nearly every quakelive cup had no or 1 pro player in it, check the other post where bodzo finished most of the quakelive tournaments first, but wait, Spartie played, 1st place goes to spartie , 2nd place to bodzo, same goes for tournaments with fooki attending.

'talent thing is such a bs' , i don't think you really know what it needs to take to play on a serious lvl of gaming, every morron can play 10 hour a day and be the best , for now, we don't even have private servers which makes it impossible (from what ive heard) to practise decent with the same person for a evening, some pro players even admit to play more then other players since they lack this 'giving' or whatever you want to call it. Don't get me wrong, i'm happy for bodzo, but i think its too early to say that he is one of the best player in quakelive also concerning the lack of lan tournaments yet, I don't think this skill will compare with some online tournaments

GL

The reason these "pro" players were not in those cups is the reason that bodzo is now in SK and they are not. Simple as that, if they think it's beneath them to enter these tournaments it's their loss.

Also the differences between the more known players like fooki and spartie compared to bodzo are marginal at best. Yes fooki beat bodzo two times in two tournaments, but both times fooki came from the losers bracket, and you can guess who put him there. Also there is another tournament where bodzo finished first and spartie second. But it doesn't really matter, because clearly SK saw something in bodzo and thats why they picked him up.

you're full of shit

(and now pickup fooki ffs!)
I had to log in to plus you for this

fooki was in sk before wasnt he?

dunno, guess so:
http://www.gotfrag.com/q4/story/30920/

in that case they should have never let him go!

hm, true

aha so you mean everytime i joined the server some couple a months ago he disconnected to not ruin his stats??

(i.e. not afraid to lose)

that's a big mistake he did. If he wants to be a topplayer he has to play with the best players he can find. Not disconnect every time he sees one of them.

atleast you are fucking good spartie

I keep reading his name as bozo

yeah...

hahah (+)

hope there are some lan events he can play in.

ah well, nice to see a new name pop up.
congrats & best of luck... pole!

It doesn't hurt for SK to pick him up, afaik he will be the lowest paid player in the organization.

jealous?

was that a joke?

plz SK, give him a good internet connection :D

respects

same discussion like rapha once

I might be wrong but is it him who plays without fall dmg ?

server side but...

gg bodzo,
he is great man and skilled player...
he got a chance, so we should wish succes!

Yep hahaha.

Huh? :D

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1674411#pid1676024

shit match ;p

I found a clip of that: clip

instant erection

woW

good for him :D hes good

Wow, what a jealousy, especially from a4r-r41d!

I knew that he will join some good clan since he quit delta. I told to my buddy yuka like 1 month ago that he will join to fnatic or sk for sure. Good pick by SK, he is very good player now, perhaps number one at the moment in Quake Live.

I hope someone will make a short interview with bodzo soon. We only know he is a n1 QL player atm.

Bodzo, gl in SK and show to people who is a boss!

"Good pick by SK, he is very good player now, perhaps number one at the moment in Quake Live."

yeah...

a boss? what's the purpose of being a boss? that means there's a crapload of other bosses higher then you. get your shit together young man.

obv

seems like a very premature move by SK, which would be understandable had bodzo been destroying everyone. but, in this unstable economic climate and with the unforseeability of these prizemoney lans, none of the best players have really been putting any hours in to step up. with the exception of a few of course. if these prize money lans do eventually materialise which is what the assumption should be for these organisations when picking up players - we'll then see whether or not it was truly a good idea when the true competition is there. ALSO another reason it is premature, is because the game is still so heavily in development still imo.

The game still being in development is risky as it is but it guess it all boils down to the amount of money involved to tie him to SK and how well he performs in real tournaments - if QL ever get's that far.

He has potential and is also cheap to sign - win/win for both SK and Bodzo.

Someone bring us a LAN-tournament with lots of $$$ :)

nice gl

now try to play with one quakelive account , you can pick out of 5+ accounts ;)

Would be cool if the game had any real tournaments.

I hope he can get to qcon, I am interested to see what he can do on lan :o

he will destroy all of US top gamers at Qcon =P

lol.

i'd like to play him

Not from the US so you don't count!

Kind of like being western Canadian

u wish

I don't mean any disrespect, but do you know who griffin is? EG-Griffin?

yeah, sure I do

bodzo ftw

the qw player right? doesn't mean anything in q3

lol

destroy? yeah right...he loses to top euros on the regular and there's a few NA players that can hang with them...

?

rapha, griffin, z4, chance all showed last year they can play just fine against euros...with dahang in the mix(i think he has potential to be #1 in na)...bodzo wouldn't 'destroy' any of them
edit: in fact im willing to bet his first few lans he will not do very well at all, just like most new tournament players

I dont think so, he cant beat even low acc q3 players like fooki (I am not mocking fooki, but thats the way it is).. So I think that he will have to do some serious training if he really wants to even compete in quakecon.

/swemo

Yeah, but fooKi is light years ahead of most players in the strategy/tactics/prediction department. So it's not exactly fair to bash him for that :P

fooki plays on lcd. and i bet bodzo plays on crt. The aim/scores will be totally different on lcd vs lcd or crt vs crt......

.

but the key to any situation is to use aimbot? right?))))

Well, I think the improvement in Rapha's game since joining SK is undisputable, if he could mentor bodzo as well as Z4 mentored him I'm sure bodzo could be quite a force to reckon with...

when zero4 mentors you, you win eswc masters of athens. simple as that.

Its almost like god's hand is touching you !

w/o "almost like"

how much does a ql pro earn these days?

Let me guess...400€ a month?

a chocolate bar

more then your country (Croatia)

swim much?

kinda impossible since so called ql pros don't earn anything atm and tbh, there aren't even any ql pros atm.

Didn't they also do this with Rapha?

They picked him and zero4 before any major tournaments had been announced; then suddenly masters of paris and I think gamegune get announced?

It seems to me that SK have probably got inside word that there are some big tournaments upcoming and as yet unnanounced.

AGP tour? Dunno.

Good thoughts

I wish him best luck in SK :)

nice pick up....

gl bodzo and most of all, have fun lad.

when i spec bodzo i don't feel the 'omg' factor i did with cypher in his recent cpma domination or tox on q4

i don't think he'll match up to the players we'll see at the top in a few months, but gl to him

he's not there yet. But he CAN be, if he praccs the right way.....

I used to play with Bodzo in the same clan back in 2004 on OSP when I kicked his ass. Then I quit because I wanted a real life instead. 5 years later, I'm a restaurant manager in England and am engaged(used to live in Poland) and Bodzo gets signed at SK. I am amazed at the sheer dedication he put in. I mean, 5 years of nothing until just now.

Lol thats so great! I quit before Spartie even started to play, I would have raped him harder than esr rapes a1r back then!. Now Im studying and am engaged - clearly everyone who kept playing have been wasting their lives since theyve made no monies of it. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, to not play video games isnt really as impressive as you might think

your engaged? get out while you can! RUN AZMO RUN!

GTFO CUNT

they tell you you're a manager at Mcdonalds. in fact you just have a different shirt.

haha <3 gotta love reading these friendly forums

Only 1 active QL player in europ that is good and thats fooki.. in duell that is :)

//hzr

fooKi, active?!