cause the effects of it combined with laghax -1 arent documented anywhere.

What effects?

the effect that you hit where you aim with it :P

Well lots of cvar combinations will have various effects but won't be listed, by you saying that I thought you meant an unusual effect.

Well the combination of laghax -1 and xerp 1 makes a considerable difference (I think everyone agress) yet if you were to read the docs/wiki (Which most people get told to when they ask about the best net settings) there is no suggestion that this is of any benefit. In fact if anything it almost suggests that xerp 1 isn't really worth using.

And hitting where you aim is bad ;P? maybe we should go play cs instead

did i say so?

no, laghax -1 does that. Xerp makes it childs play to shaft people.

i said xerp 1 AND laghax -1 combined.

and you were wrong.
you don't need them combined. ONLY laghax.

if xerp predictes where the enemy model really is, then how can you hit the enemy when he actually is somewhere else without xerp?

It has been in for ages and people have only started complaining now because they're idiots.

So true...nobody even cared about xerp until a few months ago when ix posted that log asking about how xerp felt in vq3.

all munoz fault.

its been in for like 2 years?

Notes for version 1.30 (12 May 04)

chg: cg_smoothClients renamed to cg_xerpClients (-1|0|1, default 0)
this should solve the "config pollution" stupidities but still let
people who know what they're doing use it if they really want to
all the old notes/warnings/issues/etc still apply
so if you don't like it, don't whine about it: just don't USE it f

Notes for version 99z3 (15 Dec 02)

chg: cg_smoothclients now just (negative | off | positive)
mapped to -50, 0, 50 internally
default is 1, i.e. positive, i.e. 50 internally
too many people just didn't understand it and set it wrong
or used vq3 configs that had it at 1
which was the worst possible value for y3-z2 builds


Notes for version 0.99z1 (8 Dec 02)

fix: final smoothclients tweaks (default 50)
the effective range is limited to +-50
0 disables
negative values sacrifice accuracy for smoothness (99x9)
positive values sacrifice smoothness for accuracy (99x8)
either one will be jerky sometimes with heavy timenudges

notepad > changelog > find

What the hell are you doing? Stop spreading knowlede and common sense, these clueless whiners that see every promode variable as potential Arqon conspiracy to ruin vq3 are waaaay to fun. Telling them that all this secret knowledge about evil CPMA is in changelog might kill that fun.

:p

So, we've had Xerp now for FOUR YEARS

And now they are making a big deal of it.

I REALLY don't understand, why now?

=\

because people are stupid?

because not a lot of vq3'ers knew about it before, then ix made a post about it on ESR and now just about everyone playing cpma is aware.

... because the number of CPMA players was multiplied by 4 since CPL's decision to pick that mod.

Been there longer as it merely got renamed in 2004.

And people have the nerve to say that the human race is intelligent.

VQ3 players needed an excuse why they lose to CPM:ers. or anyway just better players.

Which CPMers are going to compete at ESWC?

While his point is just the usual stupid 'my game is better than your game' stuff yours makes no sense because it's not a CPM event, not that I'd expect CPMers to turn up even if it were.

good point with "While his point is just the usual stupid 'my game is better than your game'"


but its a shame it doesnt fit for me :( since i play both equally.

matr0x and zik have both qualified. i doubt they'll be the only players there that do the cpm thing.

Matr0x and zik both play a lot of vq3 though and have done for a long time I think.

correct, but to my knowledge both are originally cpmers. i know this is the case with matr0x for sure.

yeah but when the gameplay set got changed to something that's actually sane (i much prefer pm1 as a fun factor though) matrox kind of lost it as far as I remember.

irrelevant to the fact that they're originally cpmers.

By Way2Tartan thelawenforcer : - Reply to #6
did he quit cos of 100 -> 80 damage rail?

By Poland zik ' - Reply to #7
basically cause there was more cups that days on vq3 and TDM was more fun 4 me :)


PS. matr0x and zik started playing vq3 long before the pm2 switch

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1551061

Is that what you ppl tell yourselves when you go to bed? :P

no. but thats what the whine is all about.

havent seen any vq3 players whine cause they got beat by cpm players in vq3.

lol what?

Nah vq3ers whine because apparently anyone can hit with shaft now, and they get beaten by 50% lg 70% rg newbs.

Considering how huge this problem apparently is, I find it odd that there aren't +300 demos of good players being beating by newbs with those accuracies. But since "old pro players" say it, no evidence is needed and surely it must be true.

[citation needed]

I don't have too say anything more cause all players that actually knows quake3 just gets it.

[...] And just cause you can beat some good players online using this shit doesn't mean that you are skilled in any way. You low skilled retards.

When VQ3 players migrated over to CPMA there was no indication of its benefit, some knew about the command but on the whole it wasn't widely used (It causes jumpyness for a lot of people which would suggest it would give no benefit and the docs don't suggest so either).

As people found out about the effects it had, people realised how good the CPMA netcode was and how they could aim/hit where they were supposed to, this has resulted in the game being more aim reliant which a lot of people don't like.

Hence the whine.

God forbid players complain about being able to aim in a First Person Shooter

Yeah that's the stupid thing about it all not that they didn't know about it or that it's an old command and "now" they are whining. (Honestly most people have only JUST used CPMA for the first time)

Instead of trying to fix VQ3 gameplay or be constructive they want to be regressive and have shit netcode :/

wonder if any use it with true lg 0 ;)

"Instead of trying to fix VQ3 gameplay or be constructive they want to be regressive and have shit netcode"

This is pretty one dimensional thinking. Of course everyone would like great netcode and working gameplay, but you have to face the facts. "Fixing" the VQ3 gameplay is not so easy when 50% of VQ3 is played in OSP where such fixes can not be made, and are not even necessary if you only want to fix what has been broken by CPMA and not just improve the game (which would be even better though). Not to mention that CPMA offers very little or no support to one of their gametypes and that happens to be VQ3. Their "solution" CQ3 is totally different thing than "VQ3 with some minor balance changes", so no wonder it is not catching any wind at all.

So, what it boils down to, is that giving option to play VQ3 in non-xerp enviroment would be the easiest, fastest, most realistic way to hotfix the gameplay in CPMA. That doesnt mean that people should stop pursuing the better solutions in the horizon, while we are again having fun when playing the somewhat fixed (or un-broken if you will) version of the game.

The only reason "50% of VQ3 is played in OSP where such fixes can not be made, and are not even necessary" is that the development stopped at a certain point, like an insect trapped in amber :p

tbh arQon doesn't touch VQ3 because everytime he does, the VQ3 crowd crys.

When did he touch "touch" VQ3 so that the change had real development cycle behind it?

The main argument from VQ3 peeps has been, nothing can be changed because after all its vanilla quake 3. Just look at the 85 physics, xerp whine.

Do you have a source for this argument? I could give you an counter argument. When floor damage got removed, there were some objections, so what did OSP do, being a true "by the players for the players" mod? They implemented it as a votable option so the community could decide if they wanted floor damage on or not. And the community decided to keep the change.

Also, CPM community whined just as much about the "85 fps" change when it happened, only they didnt have any choice but to accept it, beggars cant be choosers, so to speak. They also whine just as much when CPMA team (or arQon) changes some random stuff that nobody wanted or asked that affects negatively to their gaming experience, just look at the shaft whine.

Don't really care much to tell you the sources, especially when they are scattered around this site.

difference is: cpm players adapt after all, vq3 players whine constantly.

Cypher will win pro-q3dm6 for sure and Question will win hub3aeroq3...

Cypher will win pro-q3dm6 for sure and Question will win hub3aeroq3...

CYPHER FTW......CANT LOSE WITH T3 CONNECTION =D

money, thx

TNHxhnNSxs esr

wtf cypher favourite =))
dont know what maps they will choose...?? ob hub and t4 quastion better

- "Instead of trying to fix VQ3 gameplay or be constructive they want to be regressive and have shit netcode :/ "

Well, fixing the gameplay would be the best, but the cpma team explained a lot of times they won't support the community here. Hence to nerf hitscan weapons is only possible with a worse netcode in trade for a better balance. Obviously, this is utter bs, but sad thing is that it's the only way left.

If you can get them to do the job, then fine. The players won't hold them back, because a better balance is what the whine is all about.

"they won't support the community here."

Blah blah blah blah.

the problem is that all these fixes has bosted lg even on lan and there for fucked up the balance.

Personally I disagree with the way that the cpma team has handled matters, but I applaud arqon's intentions with his netcode improvements first off. Increasing the ability for high pingers to play more effectively on the internet is never a negative.

However, the problem here is that the way things were implemented was done without consulting the vq3 community for the most part. As a result, the hitscan weapons became overpowered which has led to the, 'aimization' if you will, of cpma vq3.

As a result, the overall gameplay of vq3 has dropped and when anyone suggests that the vaunted arqon negatively impacted vq3, they are immediately dismissed as 'whiners', 'idiots' or 'has-beens' etc. Even if the player in question is someone like fox or fazz, who know this game as well as anyone.

Things would go a lot smoother if people, including the cpma team, tried to find a rational solution instead of denying the elephant in the room or simply flaming someone who disagrees with the cpm community's stance.

I've followed this quite closely and watched a lot of VQ3 demos recently to see what has changed. It's true that people hit more LG in closecombat although overall percentages don't seem much higher, between top players you'll usually see 35-40%. Levels of LG spam haven't changed since players discovered xerp. Games look fairly similar over all and the same players as usual are winning so it's a little hard to see the sky's fallen that hard. The main shock seems to be that players with pings over 50 are actually a threat.

yeah it's utter bullshit really and I guess the majority of the whiners are just using it as an excuse and have no clue.

xerp does very little at sub 40 ping, you really feel the magic around 70-100. I've been hitting 35%+ LG on US servers not to mention off the hook rail shots.

watching demos of the top players vs other top players and hitting a good 35% is still (after four years) impressive and difficult to pull off.

The only time people are hitting towards and over 40% are blow out games or shooting for stats which has been happening forever.

oh and for those that use TDM games as an example you really shouldn't. I'll let 2v2 slide but that's about it.

It's far easier to gun someone down when they're too busy focusing on the other person(s) attacking them while they're totally unaware or incapable of even beginning to think about you.

havent really seen any demoes where i saw the "utter bs"

tbh i like the shaft usage better than the railwhores that used to be _the_ whine topic

I'm curious: have you also checked SG stats?

No.

Why not?

So can anyone clarify why the hell some people get jerky moving models when laghax -1 and xerp 1 and some get it smooth?

racism

depends on their connection and if theyre using any form of nudging i guess

I have jerky models when I ping around 25 or lower, above models are smooth. I really enjoy xerp and the possibilty to properly play on 50+ servers vs lowpingers. In OSP a ping difference of 20 or more usually made up for huge differences in skill level.

Short version: so everyone feels like they're good at a video game now.

I mean, just look at tehoreoz!

fuck you i never saw this post before

i bet this was after i beat you in two duels after playing for 3 months

fuck yoU!

fuck you

way to bump!

No, this was when I beat your aim-whore ass on hub in Q3 after many moments of laughter as to how badly you were playing and how reliant you were on hitting shots rather than making solid decisions altogether. You hit something stupid like 50% rail and 35% shaft and still lost decidedly.

Why would you think I was referring to those Q4 duels I played against you in a thread about xerp? I won those anyways.

I WAS REFERRING TO THE TIME I BEAT YOU ON NODM9/DM6 AND YOU CRIED XERP ALL DAY ACTUALLY

I THINK YOU BEAT ME ON HUB WHEN I WAS PLAYING WINDOWMODE GJ

I don't understand the objection to xerp (and laghax) - in my opinion it's development, as people have said it has been around for four years and LG % in demos still hovers around 30-40%. Everything needs changes and developments - should football/soccer players be forced to play without studs because they get better grip, should swimmers not be allowed goggles.

Xerp is there and available to everyone to use so therefore there should not be complaints. As it is there is a audible buzz from the LG and a whine from the rail - to me it seems that some players can't hear these noises over their own whines at times! Some complain about certain players playing all aim, no brain - if you can hear these weapons, play with your brain! Don't go into close contact v LG or get the drop on them, catch them by surprise...Or use Xerp yourself and stop complaining that you are losing.

"Xerp" is the new "hax" it seems - players losing have to blame something but themselves...

the problem is that all these fixes has bosted lg even on lan and there for fucked up the balance.

I suppose the ESWC will really show if there are major impacts...But it is just a change that people will/should adapt to - as I said, footballers get studded boots, drivers often get traction control - these do not do the jobs of the players but do act as an assist, similar to xerp and laghax.

As they have not been outlawed in ESWC, it should provide a basis of comparison and also indicates that it is not thought to be a huge problem (and as said, it has been present for four years).

adapt how? only use lg?and its allready known that CPMA has boosted up the lg on lan aswell.

ofcourse they don't do the job thats not the point, the point is that lg is stronger now and therefor the weapon balance is broken, even more.

it might have been present for four year in cpm but CPMA has only been used for 2 years for vq3 and we saw even then that the lg got boosted-even before everyone knew about xerp.

i have no problem hitting where i aim but lower the dmg on lg then.

and its allready known that CPMA has boosted up the lg on lan aswell.

Do you have any actual proof to this claim?

i thought this was common knowledge?

If "Common knowledge" is a group of people that have very little to back up their claims, well then yes, it's common knowledge.

At least eswc will reveal if the whiners are correct and xerp generates +50% lg accuracies for everyone. Somehow I doubt it, but you never know.

50% in fights, not on the end screenshot.

So you're saying that even though in OSP people get 30-40% LG stats overall (including spam) that they are only hitting 30-40% in fight as well?

PLEASE...

whats there to proof, shouldnt it be obvious that its easier to aim with a straight shaft than with one lagging behind a bit?

There is hardly any difference on LAN

whats there to proof, shouldnt it be obvious that its easier to aim with a straight shaft than with one lagging behind a bit?

Hmm the lag is there in cpma too.

Ping is ping, if there are physical limits that keep your ping at let's say, 31, then there is nothing/not much you can do software wise.

You can leave out useless date to be send to the server(cg_optimisebw) but the lag is there.

But this whole 'straight shaft vs lagging behind shaft' thing is imo a wrong view on how the shaft works.

This whole 'aim with the shaft and hit where the beam is' and 'The BEAM IS THE SHAFT WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW'.

The beam is just a visual effect.

If I'd create a railgun that would fire every 50 ms, you'd get the same kind of beam as with the lg, however, it still is an instant hit weapon there is no 'beam' to aim with.

Yes, ofcourse there is lag but that's relative to for example, how fast you move your mouse.

There was someone who posted a video that proved that there is a real beam because marks appeared on the wall where the beam just was.
NO WAY!
The beam shows where you just hit/shot, I'd be more surprised if the marks would show up where you are going to shoot.

That was Reptile.

In one of the old xerp whine threads arguing with me!

[q]it might have been present for four year in cpm but CPMA has only been used for 2 years for vq3 and we saw even then that the lg got boosted-even before everyone knew about xerp.[q]

Dont really think I get your point with that.

ahh, the classic "lets nerf the netcode and keep the imbalanced weapons" theory of game balancing, also called the 'Completely Retarded' theory.

xerp should stay, lg should be nerfed.

no i never said that, nerfing the lg is fine by me.

even back in 04, everyone used xerpclients 1 ( ix told me so after a couple of games on amphi :D )

holy smokes batman what next

now i know why you wanna xerp me...