quite interesting. and its quite funny how christian ppl always says its because of the devil if someone proves them wrong ;<

THIS movie is a fake!!! There is NO WAY IN HELL THAT the USA gov would be responsible for 911!!!! This is ludicrous!!! I can't believe people buy this shit... its simply one more divisive attempt.

As we all now... "divided we fall"!!

The American Government is the most honest government I know... right up there with that of Switzerland and Norway.

Long live the USA and all the freedom it affords us.

:(

lmao

youre a fake. youre a lie created by us goverment :(

Yea, very famous online documentary, very good too!

Didn't CPLains link to it already?
Haven't watched it, even though I put it on my ipod. For the rainy day.

Not that I know of. I was kind of predicting he might of though but I couldn't see anything from the search results.

My cusin sendt it to me some months ago when he was all into the 9/11 truth and other conspiracy theories, so i kinda neglected it like all the other crap he sendt me in that timeperiod. Don't know what it's about even. But i really get a bad vibe from that title. Also, the first 10 seconds of the movie makes me think it sucks balls.

Might check it out if lots of people i respect on here commend it. ;)

let me know how it goes

jabb0r and tb0ne cancel eachother out so far :p

doubt i'll ever see it

in fact; if you'd go "i saw it and it's awesome" - i'd actually think you were lying and get 2-3 more opinions :P

It has been clear that us goverment have been quite corrupted ever since they assassinated kennedy. all the things they do is really unprofessional with their doings for a cover-up thing and everything they tell is bullcrap which u can see from a tv that all they say is bullshit. and i think its because us. goverment knows that 95% of americans are idiots and hopes the rest 5% follows them.

great piece of film..

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1408782

You are insane.

9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JORB WHAT ABOUT BUILDING 7 BILL WHAT ABOUT BUILDING SEVEN???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!???????????¿

Question is: With all this awareness spread around the world by the internet. Would this con be possible ?

that's what i'm asking myself every now and then. talking 'bout 9/11 here.

Considering the amount of idiots that lives on this planet - I'd say it is. I mean the facts, the evidence etc are there already but people has already made up their mind.

It's no newsflash that the majority of the world population lacks the ability to think rationally and logically.

discussing the movie with old people got me egd. i mean, i'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but you gotta be sceptic these days.
the whole world knows, that forces inside the government killed kennedy, still everybody denies these facts.

Hahaha, your statement is just gold.

Sure hope you meant it as being sarcastic though ;)

yeah, kinda ... conspiracytheories suck donkey balls.

the kennedy issue is kinda true tho, isn't it ?

I really don't know much about the Kennedy incident, but I do know two things.

There are people who are insane enough to kill someone else for no real reason, only becaue "the voices" tell them. So it could have happened.

If you write books and and make movies about some theory and through enough half-truths in them you will get people believing you. See Scientology and the people who doubt the moon landing.

I would say that it is impossible for almost everyone to know for sure what happened with Kennedy, so I'm sceptic of all the tales that et told about it.

except the people who coned him :)

either that, or he got killed by the only magic bullet in history.

and it didn't ever occur to you that all you know about it was written by someone?

well, the Warren-Comission did write something.

and they can't play a con or be conned themselves?

dun get where you're going with this, but in the conspiracy world they were part of the con.

Bullets don't travel straight.

I have an interest in conspiracies if only to see what fucked up things people are thinking. I'm pretty sure Oswald did it, whether someone helped him or not is a mystery.

Oswald was a "communist" in the scary american thought sense, he even defected to the USSR for a few years, married a russian woman and then returned to the US. He was the type of guy who once he put his mind to something, he did it.

If he was a fall guy he was the perfect fall guy. Nah, if there is a conspiracy it's that someone helped him do it, but he definitely shot the gun.

that's the point in the whole thing for me ... someone helped him. and every person involved tried it's best to cover it up.

What evidence is there that someone helped him? Did he have the ability to do it himself? Did he have enough motive to do it himself?

There is more than just the bullet theory itself.
Which is a pretty strong one though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory
I think that what alot of people contests are oswalds lousy shooting skills and none of the best marksmen in the CIA were even close to repeating the feat.

Also the fact that Oswald himself was assasinated sort proves to me that some people did not want to hear his confession. Perhaps he was in on it (though I dont think so), but he definately wasnt the only one.
If someone else was in on it, the entire theory of oswald being the lone gunman falls apart. Which really was the substance of the theory

Well, if the guy was the fall guy he was practically perfect for it. He defected to the Soviet Union (and came back), worked in the building the shot was (supposedly) fired from, left work right after the shot was made.

The gun that was found in the place the shot was (supposedly) fired from, was Oswald's gun, and Oswald even got his wife to take pictures of him with his gun. (Which screams nutcase to me)

I also don't know where you got information that he was a poor shot. He was actually quite a good shot, just not excellent. Also, the tests that were performed on him (which says he was an average marksman) was years before he did the assasination. Considering he liked guns, he probably practised quite often and improved.

Also, he took 3 shots, he didn't succeed straight away. The first shot missed, and could have been used to correct the second shot, which was used to correct the third, perfect shot.

Regarding Oswald being assasinated by Ruby, there are enough psycho's in the world to do that too.

I'm sorry if you take this the wrong way, but I think you the warren commission way too much credit, its a bit naive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66__vymfPA
Might not want to show it to any kids since it s the actual assasination...

The last shot has a ricochet and point of impact to the front and not the back. You can even see his head get thrown backwards and to the left.
Besides, I doubt that someone like oswald who was at best a decent shot, could fire 3 shots in 6-7 seconds with a rifle that took aproximately 2.3 seconds to fire. And then get 2 out of three shots to the head (If you count the shot that hit him through the neck a headshot, which I do =p). Not even the best FBI shooters could do that.
Perhaps he was involved somehow. But the evidence for a conspiracy are too overwhelming for me to believe that there was a lone gunman.

Damn, I hate coming off as if I would think that I actually knows what I'm talking about. Though I'm certainly not alone in this theory. Lots of really smart people agrees with me :)

here's a shocker: smart people can believe stupid things

many idiots think they're philosophers, too.

and why did you respond to me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory

"Three FBI shooters using Oswald’s rifle fired seven sets of three shots as quickly as possible while aiming at three targets spaced at distances comparable to those from the sixth floor Texas School Book Depository window to the President’s limousine. All 21 shots hit within nine inches of the centre of the respective targets."

+

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_th...9.27s_path

Got a non wikipedia link? My source is the book Trail of the assassins by jim garrison (the procecutor)
Besides, as quickly as they could maybe, but could they do it within 6 seconds when the gun takes 2-2.3 seconds to reload?

Edit: reason is that i have a general distrust of wiki links since people tend to make stuff up and people tend to accept things for facts as long as you have a source, without actually checking the source itself :).
Also, the warren commission failed to take alot of things into account. Such as shooting angle when connolly and kennedy moved, etc. Also its the question of that the zapruder film showed that kennedy and connolly did not react to the pains at the same time..
Another thing worthy or mentioning is that the cops on the bikes turns their head to the right (towards the grassy noll) at the time of the shooting on the zapruder film =)

Though there has been critisism of the film, and some people means that it has been altered, though that remains to be seen :)

Check under the critisism of that Single bullet theory link you have.

I don't use wikipedia for precise information either and you're right, everything hasn't been explained. I just found it interesting to read that the single bullet theory isn't as impossible as some make it out to be (*cough* oliver stone *cough*).
I don't know if they did it within seven seconds, I was simply answering your claim that "not even the best FBI shooters could do that" in regards to the precision. I don't know how much time it took them to shoot those bullets.

Ah, well, nice of you to bring it up anyways. A lesson for me on to check more sources next time (and not just the jim garrison one :p)

sorry but all i could think about after reading your post was "back and to the left" "back and to the left" "back and to the left" "back and to the left" lol

Lol :D
I didnt even notice that myself, must've been subconcious I guess.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mqs9ap3iV-4 so funny ^_^

Bill Hicks wins Kenendy debates as well :D

a well known CIA agent called howard hunt apparently pointed to LBJ as the head of the plot. this agent is involved in all the dodgy operations that are known to the public; bay of pigs, watergate + others : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_hunt

uhm, if i remeber correctly this was about how we can believe "facts" we read, hear or see on TV without having been a real witness to everthing. Not that much about what really happened, especialy since probaby none of us were witnesses.

Well, the how do you think it the best way to make a book about the CIA sell really, really big?
a) By pointing out that the CIA didn't ever do anything.
b) to have them involved in every suspicious event in the last 250 years.

Only that that guy is ex CIA doesn't mean he's telling the truth, after all he is ex CIA.

he was on his deathbed, which is why he spoke up about it, aswell as his son probing him about it because he suspected his father was involved somehow after having recognised him in the famous 'three tramps' photo.

ah, so he didn't even write the book himself.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to determine that his book is completely wrong or something. My point is to show how it could be false and that we have no way of knowing if it is or if it isn't.

omg u must work for the galaxy government.. why mislead us?

there's a really good book titled Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy. It's a lengthy mother, and it's probably the best smack down of this nonsense there ever was.

rationality and logic have little to do with beliefs, but more to do with their sophistication and depth.. i've always been pretty interested in "genius", and that's what i find.. not that there's never any correlation; but.. less than people seem to expect.

Look at politics.. You poll people for intelligence and views; might be some correlation over thousands of people, but individually and locally it's usually insignificant.

To give a positive view, i think that e.g. the more important thing for people believing in e.g. conspiracy is paranoia, religion is spirituality, conservatism is apprehensiveness etc.etc.

Regarding the 9/11 attacks I have yet to come across a piece of evidence that shows an involvement of the american government or one of its agencies which hasn't already been debunked a million times.

Bah conspiracies, it's just like that religious rubbish.

I haven't seen the whole documentry yet, but from what I've seen of the "conspiracy" parts of it they aren't really theorizing, they are just presenting facts upon which theories could easily be based. That's actually the complete opposite from "religious rubbish" - presenting theories without facts.

I wasn't really speaking about the documentary, I will watch it when I get around to it, but just in general, believing in conspiracy theories are about as dumb as believing in the invisible pink unicorn.

Remember, even facts can be introduced in a way to lead a person down a certain way of thought.

Conspiracy theories are good!
Remember how mr bush (not the old one, im talking about the youngest one, the boy king) invaded iraq a few years ago? Some people thought the "facts" presented were just bogus and all fake.
Now here we are a few years later... They were right! The "facts" presented by the intelligence and the government were all fake. If saddam had any WMD's, he would have used them :).

Though some conspiracies might be a bit "out there". Many of them teaches us to think critically. And to remember that governments always lie. You cannot be in a government without having lied, or decieved on some level. Politicians lies and twists the truth for a living :)

I do not think any government is competent enough to hide a large conspiracy, if there was a conspiracy, we would find it.

hahaha :)

They usually fail to hide sex scandals, if they can't hide that, them how the hell are they meant to hide operations which would involve thousands of people?

You see governments do not hide anything, they simply lie and deny existence, hoping the population will be content with their answers. Take area 51 for example.

What is your point? "Area 51" is not a conspiracy, it's an airforce base, and I sure that anything to do with military technology would be kept from public view, but that's for security, it's not a conspiracy.

Unless you're talking about aliens, from which point I would laugh at you.

no i'm not referring to aliens i was just noting how the government completely denied its existence for a while, i was kinda joking too not it's not a serious post :p

You never know...

Bah conspiracies

Have you ever taken the time to read through some of the questions many conspiracy theorists ask? OK, there are quite a few conspiracy theories out there but if you sift through the bullshit most of the time there are perfectly logical questions that aren't being answered. Like many others, I simply ask why that's all.

/ReturnToRatRace

Yes I have, and there are many questions being answered but the "theorists" don't listen or don't believe them.

One example is the amount of effert that NASA puts into disproving moon hoax landings, but I don't think anyone who believed that the moon landing was a hoax in the first place would ever change their mind. "They're lying! It's a conspiracy!".

Ignoring that some consipracy maybe true is just as bad as being religous in my book.

Watch, read these then go search for the facts yourself then decided weatehr you think something is true or not, just saying o its about conspiracys its just a bunch of nuts allows people out there who kill 1, 10s, 100s, 1,000,000s for money and power

as for 9/11 i have no clue if there were bombs in the buildings or the planes were remotely controls, i dont even care, but ill put money on it somewhere int he gov/military someone turnt a blindeye to it and allowed it to happen

I research these things pretty well thank you.

Quite good, first start with a true fact(religion=population control), then follow it up with an hour plus of conspiracies, which most dull people would believe.

Had to laugh at the part.. american government intentionally makes its people thick. Because lets face it, its in their DNA.

no, it has to do with your nutritional habits. most of us are descendants of europeans. ask yourself why obesity isn't nearly as common in europe.

honestly, it's like living in the twilight zone, here in the u.s. no one has any clue about what reality is. they're just so concerned about money and are in no way skeptical about the information they receive from television. people around me are christian. they think theres an afterlife. some people around me think natural selection is a load of bullshit. some of them think the universe is less than 6000 years old, but have never stopped and realized that if that were true, we wouldn't be able to see most of our own galaxy and the universe would appear to be growing at a very fast speed. um, people are so misinformed to think that obesity and other diseases are genetic. if thats so, how come the majority of these epidemics have only been around for 50-120 years? they don't realize that they need fat, protein and a small amount of carbs to feed their cells(theres ~100,000,000,000,000 in every human body). instead, they think of nutrition in terms of calories, which is incredibly stupid, but people believe whatever they see on tv.

/rant

but honestly i wish one of you would let me leave this country and come and stay with you, or one or more of your nations would liberate us.

vote colbert! :)

my allegiance is to ron paul.

why exactly is he a republican ? isn't he more like a neutral kinda guy ?

well, his views are republican. neoconservatives, on the other hand, are just pretending to be republican.

If I were American I would vote for Ron Paul. He actually talks sense.

well, he's the only logical choice. kucinich and gravel aren't nearly as popular. gravel and kucinich aren't nearly as close to getting the democratic nomination as paul is to getting his party's nomination. the rest are just puppets for special interest groups. obama may be genuine, though he's likely to turn into a warmonger if he's given enough cash.

This docu felt like wikipedia. There's some interesting information in it, but without verifying the sources yourself it's utterly worthless.

Nio comment on the 9/11 part BUT the religion part was $. Just skip the intro. Dead children make me sad anyway :(

suck my balls, emoboy

:(( Executions, suicides, whatever. No biggie. Dead children :((

Errr.. 3 WTC Building collapsed on 9/11? :o

Yea, I was said the same thing when I found out. Quite interesting isn't it.

This is also interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2E65WTxd1U

Dutch demolition expert comments on what he sees when the tower collapses.

Thanks for that, very interesting
Damn, it's weird that not many people are informed about this.

So you're one of them truthers?

No, just intrigued.

Perhaps I am looking too deep into this but there are so many odd inconsistencies it's what fuels my interest.

Some of the evidence is just bizarre.

hehe, best truther site ive seen is www.drjudywood.com she just seems like a complete and utter nutjob.

of all the truther stuff ive seen, only the flight 77 blackbox stuff and the XEDS results from the iron spheres in the WTC dust seem to carry any weight at all.

Why would the government blow it up? What would it have achieved for them considering few people even know about it (you said it yourself and surely if they had done it their aim would have then been to make it known that it collapsed) and the Twin Towers had already collapsed?

Just because there are unexplained areas doesn't mean it was a conspiracy. Someone from "popular mechanics" analyzed this very accurately saying that it was a form of argumentation also used by creationists and holocaust denyers: whenever they find a small area where everything isn't known yet they scream and shout that the entire thing is a hoax (I'm not saying that's what you're doing).

Anyway, what the guy from Popular mechanics was saying was that this particular building was pretty unconventional in its structure and some areas at the bottom were very vulnerable to fire. Diesel tanks in the building actually fueled the fires for seven hours and eventually the skyscraper collapsed since it's internal supports failed (more or less).

http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=270628 for the explanation (it comes after a few minutes).

http://www.break.com/LooseChangeLies has different parts of an interesting debate between the Loose Change creators and two people from Popular Mechanics who wrote a book debunking 9/11 myths. Pretty much everything the LC guys mention is explained by the folks from Popular Mechanics.

The third collapse happened about 7 hours later due to structural damage because of the large buildings falling on it. WTC7 wasn't as big as the other two.

Yeah thanks, it's weird that I just heard about it

i'd call it irony :>

and fire dnt forget.

fell asleep during the economy phase, everything before that was good fun.

Everybody loves 'em, even the haters.

This and 'Loose Change' both have nice soundtracks playing away in the background. Hopefully that trend continues with this style of documentary.

I have to laugh at people who take shitty google videos seriously.

Here's a few links.

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/F2F.htm
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/

there is no u.s. law that requires us to FILE for income tax. once you've filed a 1040 you're now subject to their rules/regulations.

an 18 minutes song called The Decline, performed by NOFX.
it has it all (except 9/11 - song was released as an EP in 1998 - but the cover shows a boy flying a toy plane over the White House :D)
mp3: http://www.jrarrmy.com/fmp3/NOFX/The%20Decline/
rest of lyrics: http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/nofx/thedecline.html

2012 - The Future of Mankind


havent watched this one but seems promising

I think that the 2nd and 3rd part of this movie are paranoid to say the least but stem from 2 fairly easily observed fact. Government is quite often corrupt and deceitful and that representative democracy in the west in many cases no longer truly serves the interest of the population that elects them...

the source list is a bit weird

Krishna born on 25 dec? crucified? resurrected?
why aren't all sources verifiable online as well?

i couldn't find a lot of this stuff

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8834310461960956516&

bunch of trash that has already been debunked. i can't believe it took them two years to make this

and avery has to be the most boring narrator ever

could you link me one or two premier debunk-movies, please? there gotta be numerous since it seems to be so easy to prove all these theories wrong..

Buy the book "Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts" :)

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/i...158816635X

i'd rather listen to it and watch it.. and besides, it was somewhat of a taunt to Queezy since he was amazed it took two years etc.. so making an exceptionally good debunk-movie shouldn't take more than a month one might think..?

and i'm sure you don't need either a scientist or a physicist to explain why the FBI hasn't released the alleged 85 confiscated pentagon-videos etc..

Why would anyone make a movie when text is CLEARLY the best way to present scientific data and reason?

one would think that they would try to get it ported into video because its so much easier to access and spread.. and i personally find audio and images more interesting than the printed word..

"i personally find audio and images more interesting than the printed word"

Oh yeah, no doubt the guys behind conspiracy theories want to get you interested. But that's not the point of the people debunking the stupid claims of the conspiracy theorists. They're not here to interest or entertain you, they're here to provide you with scientific evidence and with an argumentation based on reason. Obviously the chemistry, maths and physics needed to explain the collapse of a building aren't going to be as interesting to the average viewer as a conspiracy involving the government and pretty much every federal agency out there. Oh and let's add the flying spaghetti monster just to be sure, who knows what HE did? Do you want to be entertained or do you want to know the truth?

Hahaha your just as bad as the lose change guys, while your all arguing how the buildings came down, the guys who are behind it all whoever it was have gotton away with it FACT, and its been used for a reason to go attack a bunch of countries in the middle east with nice gas and oil reserves FACT

"the guys who are behind it all whoever it was have gotton away with it FACT"

Which "guys" are you talking about? You don't make much sense.

"its been used for a reason to go attack a bunch of countries in the middle east with nice gas and oil reserves FACT"

Just because it has been useful to the Bush administration doesn't mean the Bush administration did it.

Hahaha your just as bad as the lose change guys, while your all arguing how the buildings came down, the guys who are behind it all whoever it was have gotton away with it FACT[...]

The guys behind it are... OBL? NWO/Illuminati?

nice rant, lost interest 1/3 through tho.. go make a video about it instead..

yeah I'm sure video is a better way to get to kids.

obviously it got to you pretty good, seeing how raged you are ;>

I'm not raged believe me :] Reading you makes me rather happy about myself :)

witty internet duels produce the same amount of energy required to construct additional pylons

or to read a book?

Why do you even bother? Truthers are among the most willfully ignorant people in the world. Second only to creationists which quite frankly are in a league of their own.

not a scientist for sure, but hopefully someone knowledgeable about criminal investigation and the law. i definitely don't settle for armchair detectives telling me that confiscating videos is clear evidence of a cover-up.

so there IS an investigation? :> ..or do you mean they need a criminal investigator to tell the people not to be interested in what's on those tapes..? :)

Did you use to have access to security tapes of the Pentagon at any point in time, even before 9/11?

im sure the owners of the tapes had access before they were confiscated.. but wouldn't you want to see 10 of them if that could put the theories to rest once and for all? not just 5 screenshots of the explosion ^^

Seeing ALL of them wouldn't put the theories to rest. Those theories feed on nothing and discard any evidence that contradicts what they're saying.

what evidence are you talking about in this case if i may ask?

Hm, let's see, evidence that the people on flight 93 made phone calls before it crashed... and that those people actually existed.
Read more will you?

yeah, but i mean physical evidence that shows the plane crashing or parts from the plane that isn't of the size of a lawnmower-motor and some aluminum foil lying on the grass.. you know, the usual easily identified stuff that lies around on the ground when airplanes crash :/

the usual easily identifiable stuff that lies around after a plane hits a reinforced wall at 500 mph, you mean

yeah i suppose if it's a reinforced wall 99,9% of everything pulverizes and engines shrink in size.. never underestimate the magical powers of reinforced walls

this kind of stuff?

http://www.kolumbus.fi/totuus/img/pentagon-757diffuser.jpg

the airplane made its way through the outer wall, so there was much more debris at the site than most pictures indicate.

i'm just wondering who planted the debris on the lawn, and how did they do it without being noticed?

like so

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WMyPC5wVvbs

Most debunks are just as bad as most conspiracys, they're based on the 'fact' you'll take whats said on face vaule as true and not research whats being said yourself

Actually some debunkings are perfectly well made.

utterly wrong. one of the cornerstones of debunking is research.

Can't view this at the moment but I'm guessing this is Loose Change. Am I right?

yes, sir, it's the final cut.

regardless of what really happened on 9/11, i think it is safe to say that there are some rather glaring discrepancies which should be addressed. i think the only one backed up by real irrefutable data is the flight 77 into the pentagon. The black box data doesnt add up with the supposed flight path, elevation or rate of descent of the plane in question. The video evidence supplied by the pentagon seems to back the official story up but is in direct conflict with the flight data recorder. I try not to draw any conclusions from this (although its easy to see how you could) but to the best of my knowledge, this discrepancy has not been addressed.

Man fuck what the planes did or whatever, facts is all this was used as an excuse to start a war

here's a really good post from the JREF forum concerning the fdr: AA77 FDR Data, Explained

Where are the comments gone?

CIA took them down

;'l.k,mnbfvdsbnm