when will people realize that quakelive is pure shit compared to q3 cmpa and move back to it..

when will people realize that quakelive is pure shit compared to q3 cmpa osp and move back to it..
fixed!

:D

when will people realize that id software is pure shit compared to any random startup company and move away from it..
fixed!

This is true and very sad :(

ID gave us this game.
But I hope that SyncError will be more talkative to community.

Incidentally, there's an IT help desk opening to be filled, as announced on the ID web site. Anybody confident they could substantially improve things may apply.

He's pretty cool, he eats babies.

.

:|

It is kind of annoying.. the least iD can do is just say what's happening and not just ignore it.

Kind of like premium content
And new maps

iD are actually not ignoring new maps.

I've spent over a year without new maps

over countless updates

the question remained

where are the maps

I ask you, where ARE the maps?

You'll just have to trust me.

You wouldn't happen to be a rat would you?

Get with the times bro. We got Silent Night and Fallout Bunker.

What more do you want?

Trust him.

Is noetix able to do anything for you in the meantime with his servers?

Sydney #2, which is still running is a PremiumGamer.com box.

has been experience spiking, but great for public

Based on the amount of servers available (that I can see.. there will be more that I can't), the spiking will be caused by the box getting smashed CPU and RAM wise.

This is why you would normally spread servers out across multiple boxes. Once again this is a flaw created by idsoftware when they decided they wouldn't distribute the dedicated binaries for third parties to host servers.

yeah i know, what i mean is that would it be possible to use those to complete the matches, etc.
but yeah, nvm.

3 local lans in my area so far have no quakelive because they arent going to run games that arent actually lan

id is dumb and killed their own game, what kind of idiotic mindset did this company get into where they think that the only people who should be able to enjoy the game in a tournament environment is top international players with sponsors? Every reputable game has had small local lan tournaments that bring small get-togethers in the area for some small cash. Thanks for fucking that up though idiots.

Cause it's designed in an American culture - where it's easy enough to have internet en'masse at any LAN - same with most parts of the EU and the rest of the world too really.....

It's Australia being so far behind the ball in IT infrastructure (due to the pathetic decision of a government owned telecomm when the majority of infrastructure was laid) that has really fucked it. However that's no excuse for removing LAN play out of games.

Another great example of systems built in 1 location without proper research into how it may perform across the world.

The CyberGamer (Acer) comp, held just 2 days ago was at a LAN cafe with a decent Internet connection that was able to hold all competitors with out any problems.

The problem is with the servers, not the connections found at most reputable LAN cafe's these days. If Sydney #1 was online on Sunday, I have no doubt in my mind that the CyberGamer comp would have been completely lag free.

Good attempt at Telstra slagging though.

agreed. I didn't even work it out until I got home and had a go myself and went... omg it wasn't the Cafe lol

"easy enough to have internet en'masse at any LAN"
irrelevant, too many problems can arise when you need internet to play LAN regardless of where you are (ESL INTEL EXTREME MASTERS anyone?)

"(due to the pathetic decision of a government owned telecomm when the majority of infrastructure was laid) that has really fucked it."
Australia used to have one of the most advanced telecommunications networks on the planet. We had a publicly owned and controlled telecommunications network run by Telecom Australia. Given the vast amount of land in Australia and the comparatively small population, our telephone and data networks were a triumph and an example to other countries on how to get things done.

It's not just id doing this dumb shit with LAN, Blizzard are loving it as well.

fps games arent like rpg / rts, ping means a hell lot more

this is so true, i dont know whos leading the quake live project, but one thing that is sure is that he doesnt know what he is doing...

my anger at ID grows from day to day. In 3 years of beta I see almost no progress...
- no new maps
- no lan
- no private servers
... to just name some of the lacks.
due to the lack of innovation the tdm community is shrinking, duel will follow, if they don't start to provide more servers again. only a matter of time till quake live dies, if they don't do anything about it.

patience

so true, why the fuck they spoke about private servers new maps etc a long time ago when they were nowhere even near to completion?

ID should just allow community made content added in game, that would boost game to new levels.

from sources i heard, 10 new maps to ql will come, not all will be new maps for ql, but like 10 more maps to be added, dont h8 so much :)

This is what happens when you get a centralized system.

Well said! :D

Come see the violence idiocy inherit in the centralized system!

"What was the reason for not adding LAN again?"

You mean:

Why did id say they would ban any players using qlded to run their own lan servers?

There you go, fixed it for you.

how many ppl (besides sync) are currently on the ql team?

There is no QL team.

eewww, thats what i thought :p

fail

Good decision. Probably one of the best ways to get ID to actually do something.
If you do send a quakecon player atleast they could then claim the competitors are from all over the world and not just NA/EU and a few asian countries.

If someone disagrees then please give an alternative that they could do to reach ID.

1 day boycott, lets strike yo!

The only available Australian servers can barely handle all the traffic during peek hours and it's basically unplayable. I wouldn't mind hearing some kind of announcement as to what's happened instead of having to put on my detective hat and ask around until I can finally put it together.

gg, id software.

how about getting the Italian servers up as well after 4 fucking months?

Must be some sort of technical issues. I cant think of anything else or why is there still no payable content with privat hosting for 2 years lol.. This wouldn't happened if iD would be part of Activision or EA Sports.

that is sad news....

omg, all these efforts for nothing? =(

just play cpma, every problem ql ever had is solved.

at least ql managed to limit rail and lg damage.


Or am I the only one who remembers the endless whine about that ?

CPM & CQ3 vs. id fanboys?

QL started as a copy of CPMA's/OSP's CQ3, the community was just too retarded to develop it and pick it up until id software forced it on the sheep via QL. this community doesn't deserve any better than the shit it's stuck with right now.

Good words, mate.

wait.. u'r saying that QL somehow was actually good in the begining?
how's that even possible?

the gameplay changes were going in the right direction coming from vanilla q3 imo, the technical side was always inferior to both osp and cpma.

omg 1 reason more to change back to q3

:(

Didn't you read the news? After the recent "DNS issue", the whole staff of ID locked themselves away in a bunker 300 feet under the ground. If out of shame or fear of the community lashback, nobody knows.

So don't expect any communication during the next 100 years or two.

They are locked in Fallout Bunker playing the NailTown probably?

sucks :(

The lack of communication from the QuakeLive team is shocking.

I've emailed multiple members of the team numerous amounts of times concerning issues that most people would make a swift reply to.

My company in Japan is supporting QuakeLive by running weekly Japan cups along side India & Singapore cups and I've requested Japan-server spawning privileges countless times without any luck.

I've also contacted iD to ask their permission to use QL at the Tokyo Game Show (only the biggest game show in the world) in our e-Sports booth we will be running.

We simply can't support iD games for much longer I think.

this is such a shame :(

but more importantly...is "14 Sai no Haha" good?

Kaixo. Do you think it's karma? Australia outlaws small-breasted women, even if they are 50, because small-breasts 'encourage pedophilia', and the next thing you know, things start going wrong for Australia.

I don't know why, but I get the impression, some people don't like fascism.

You do, in Australia, have representational-government, correct? Maybe you should get them add more servers, or stop suppressing women based on their breast-size? Misogynists and homosexuals... maybe it is time they had their own continent.

I wonder though, how places without nukes manage to have any political-power... does it require back-room blowjobs?

Let's have a happy-ending to this post, one in which everyone dies.

less shrooms for Jones plz

He is the only enertaining troll here, so moar shrooms to Jones plz!

agreed!

Got to say that this really does suck.

Micks been championing Quake in Australia for a while now and he has secured a sponsor who is willing to send a player to Qcon, which isn't cheap!

"Kick in the teeth" springs to mind :(

sounds like iD is commiting seppuku.

cpma > osp > quakelive

osp > cpma > quakelive.

Fixed that for you.

trool

cpm > all

case closed

Case reopened.

QW > CPM

Case closed.

CS > Quake

UT > CS

PK > UT

me > you

dumb faggot russian

leave alone please, i have borscht wait

ID DONT CARE ABOUT QL.
It was TESTING game! (they told this).
They aiming to SP games...
After QL was free beta, community size shrinked 30 times, if they would fixed easy problems and most imporant add NEW maps + lan suport, we could have atm ~100k active QUAKE players, it's realy much!

We really wouldn't, Quake is a hard, hard game to learn.

Seriously coming in as a newbie is just terrifying man.

not if there are 10K other newbies who don't know how to strafe-jump

tbh to get more PC gamer a company need to make an x-box of PC.
So for example use the nVidia ION platform because that can run all the games that are in the IEM + its cheap and if loads of new player have the same system it will be easier to find a fix to any problems.
Because most people just go for the console instead because they think you need the latest gaming PC that costs an arm and a leg so they can play Crysis because they all think all PC gamers play it (lol).

"we were all noobs at some point" ;)

So now, id fails not only at quality control, but at general management practices too...

This company is doomed.

Australian-legislators might be a bunch of knuckle-dragging neanderthals, but the United States isn't much better. Mostly, anything here is only allowed because of the constitution. For some reason, if it isn't explicitly restricted by the constitution, legislators suppress it... like they always want to suppress everything, but must have some preventing-force against them.

The world is stupid, to follow in the footsteps of the United States. Why does everyone just 'follow the leader'? If the U.S. outlaws something, so does the world. If only they would think for themselves, they might be able to avoid the missteps, and in doing so, get ahead.

Can you attempt to stay on topic atleast?

That's like asking Hannibal Lecter not to eat people.

this may be the only thing you've written that I actually LOL'd.

Thanks.

Cool, I never even heard of you so you owe me one.

I said thanks, so we're even.

Here's hoping it gets fixed today, maintenance/update day and all.

just get a cracked dedicated server and motherfuck id

They could really open up the game now, given that it served it's purpose. It got them a good price when they sold out to ZeniMax. And without QL, the name ID would be long forgotten by now.

Besides letting people spawn their own servers, they could throw out an SDK as well and allow for community contributions.

just shutdown QL completely => every dedicated quaker will start playing q3 again => all problems solved.
pretty easy actually. fixing the problems sc2 has is much harder in comparison.
sc2 is a good game with more features than it's predecessor, but has bad ui, no lan support and no chatrooms. ql is a bad game with less features than it's predecessor, the ui is a joke, no lan support.
sc2 players only can pray for blizzard to fix stuff.
ql players can just switch to q3.

JUST DO IT!

unfortunately, I would expect all Q3 players to go back to their niche.

Some to osp some to cpma vq3 some to cpm, and so on.

Blizzard responded to the battle.net criticism the other day, and intend to expand on it.

source? why havn't i seen this on TL.net?

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=...p;pageNo=3

Scroll to the bottom. It was on TL somewhere, but they didn't make a big deal out of it, since it was mostly just a "we'll fix it" kind of reply.

love the big X

play more promode.

lol. this community is just like one of those random whores that refuses to leave their husband/boyfriend that constantly beats them

are you saying you don't play quakelive cause you got beaten all the time?

I like what you did there.

haha :P

sif there weren't enough reasons tho

Treat em' mean and keep em' keen.

What are you on about? Women don't have feelings.

ITT: people who don't know how to spell "id"

seems like googlemaps is one of them O.o

I saved the day!

I wasn't going to write anything about it, but since I see that we're not the only ones to suffer from poor contact with ID, I'd like to add some facts to that news.

I sometimes do some work for the Polish ESWC Organiser. The company also holds the largest Quake Live TDM league in the country and will host many more tournaments. In a few months, we plan to roll out international events. All our events, so far, had prize money. The company employ QL administrators (part-time, obviously), it has business plans for that platform.

Anyway, the QL administrators contacted me that they couldn't get through to SyncError. They tried to query him at IRC, I've translated some mails for them and personally tried to contact him via his Facebook. No answer at all. Not even a simple, "sorry, we can't help you."

We only wanted to ask about the possibility of obtaining private servers for our leagues. The matches would be hyped - we're always present at the biggest gaming community sites in the country, I've personally shoutcasted the ESWC.pl.ql games via HeadshotTV. The games were watched by more than a couple thousand people, most of which are not even Quake Live players. All in all, we've promoted the game A LOT in Poland. I really feel that we've done much good and that we will continue to do even more. We've described all this in the e-mails. We've written some of our plans for the future, which I cannot disclose on a public discussion board. We're making more and more people play the game by showing that it's fun. Meanwhile, ID haven't even provided us with the most basic forms of help such as private servers for the league. This is simply absurd.

We will host at least one QL LAN shortly. It will be a part of the league, but we don't even treat it that way, it's more of a personal quest for getting all the players together to have fun. It will have an old-school form of a hardcore community tournament. Needless to say, it will probably be played via Internet servers. We did want to ask ID about LAN servers but... well, there's no way of going through to them.

I've talked to CAREEM, who was helping with the Slovenian ESWC. In his country, exactly the same situation occurred. Now I've read this news item.

mickzerofive - I've been noticing your leagues for quite a while now. I hope that we will have much more greatly dedicated admins like you and your crew. Your coverage is top notch. I'm a Polish dude that haven't been abroad for more than a few days on holidays and I know what's going on in a QL community on the very opposite side of earth. That's fucking awesome work, mate.

I personally feel deceived by ID. They try to look like a company that wants the best for the game but they do not help a bit the people that are trying to promote it and get the most players to play Quake Live.

--- conclusion / tl;dr below ---

I'm not sure if it's a problem of too few people taking care of QL - I can only imagine how much various requests SyncError constantly receives on a daily basis. But, they should take care of that, I don't see any other way. Either make a de-centralised system that the community might contribute to (providing servers, maps, and other type of content) or process every single request that goes through to ID. Otherwise, I don't expect a long lifespan for the game. Because I strongly believe that at this very moment, ID is not helping the community but impeding it's growth.

edit: I've just read #49. It's exactly the same situation that we're in.

if there is one thing I have learned about dealing with businesses it's this:

If they don't reply to your Email call them and then call them again the next day, and if they don't move the third day demand to speak to the manager. So far, that has always produced results. Yes, I suppose it works better in my case, cause we usually want to buy something they want to sell, but you should give it a shot. After all, they should want us as customers in the future.

This is what googlemaps gives me:
ID software
3819 Towne Crossing Boulevard, Mesquite, TX, United States - (972) 613-3589ŭ

If that doesn't work, try calling Zenimax, see if they got some pull:

Zenimax Media Inc
1370 Piccard Drive, Rockville, MD, United States - (301) 963-2000


Good luck!

Zenimax would be the ones to contact when you want to get shit done.

probably, yes.

But it's always better to call the guys at the bottom of the chain a few times, first. Cause the you can start then you can start the usual rant:
"I contacted A and B several times, and there was no reaction. I'm beginning to wonder if your company still wants to sell its product (cares about its reputation). Cause if you are too busy with other things, we can take our money /time investment elsewhere."
Usually gets the manager on the back foot right away and he will want to give some of his frustration back to the people under him, for putting him in that position.

Until recently I thought that it was just something that we did wrong. Maybe I didn't seem serious when I've written something like five e-mails, a facebook message and my friends tried to query Sync at IRC with their broken English ;) I still feel like a kid that's having fun and trying to organise fun for others.

But, since the situation is that bad not only for us, I see that making a couple phone calls might actually do good. There are some prosaic problems like the company still not having an office opened, me being just a lad that "does some work from time to time" and I'm living on the opposite side of the country and therefore am not able to meet that often with anyone that can borrow me a phone :) Making intercontinental phone calls is kind of costly for a student :P Meanwhile, I'm probably the only person that's English isn't THAT broken and that's also knowledgeable enough about the game that could discuss such matters with Sync or someone else. I don't want to leave it for anyone else.

well, I suppose mick would be the obvious choice to call them, being both an organizer and a native English speaker (or close enough :P).


I mean, I would do it for fun and I could use my company phone, but I don't know nearly enough details, and English is only my 2nd language, too. So, taking a random native speaker would certainly be better.

Afaik the rates for international calls with skype are quite low, so I'd suggest putting some money on an account. http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/features/prices/payg-rates/

I'll check into that although I've got tons of work to do with the VODs from the Polish ESWC qualifier and I'm starting my exam session, so I'll do it probably tomorrow :) It's a great idea and I'd really like to have a long talk with the people from ID about these issues. Thanks, becks!

A similar situation as happened in Italy as spartaz0rd said. Now we don't have anymore servers in our country, since the GPS says that they tried to contact id by email or IRC, receveing no answer for months.

About the Slovenian ESWC, the organisers tried to get lan servers like 2 or 3 weeks before the event. Thats something that should have been discussed months ahead imo.

Gotta agree with Mick, Mav and Fenda. A small but dedicated bunch is trying to do something for the community that has stayed loyal to a franchise for a decade now and this is how id treats them!?

meh

tbh your aus player probably would've got owned at quakecon anyway.. (just kidding ;-)

seriously there's no excuse for ignoring people who are trying to help the QL community, it's really poor.

similiar situation for italian server's . id didnt give the possibility to spawn private servers to the server hosters that wanted to make some cups... so now they turned off the servers .

Man this is sad to see... But really this game never even got a chance at life outside of dueling thanks the non-existant and/or inaccesable to most private server system. Sad to see it finally catching up to the real hotbeds of Quake outside of north America, where its been dead for quite some time now D:
Who would've imagined 2 years ago that it would become this bad or that we would still not have a proper priv system in place? its really suprising (I never had any past experiences with id software haha). /me shakes head

There are currently many issues with the current system that we hope to resolve, from monitoring for server issues & downtime, along with notifications of why a region is offline. Things are getting way better, with systems being put in place to take care of this. Concerning Oceania specifically I'll bring the matter up with ash__ who manages the online servers and at least report back as to why most of Oceania has had to be offline.

the server stuff is the problem at hand, but the underlying reason for it and for so much else is the lack of communication. PLEASE do something about it.

Shut down servers and close the ql project please. You will fuck up everything again eventually.

Dont play the drama queen pal. In my region the amount of active players skyrocketed when QL went open beta compared to Q3. Go play what you enjoy and stop the whine here, thanks.

you should hire me for one of the roles, ill be doing a Distributed Systems module from october

ye cuz 1 man managing the entire fucking game worldwide is gonna work out just perfect.

u guys better make Rage real fckn good else idsoftware is gonna fall flat on its ass, hard.

so only when there is a big post on esr there is a reply?

hey a-hole, you said a devblog on maps was being posted 1.5 months ago. Incompetent community manager... nice communication, you fail.

no need to turn it into trolling. This post deserves more then that.

laughable tbh.

dont you see, thats exactly the problem we are discussing here, if anyone wants a lan they have to contact someone at id, thas is allways not available. Your system simply is an utopia that doesnt work, even if you had people full time managing lan servers worldwide, it would be a difficult task, but you dont even have nobody doing that job, what the hell is ID expecting ?

we dont need no monitoring on servers or stupid notifications that servers went down, what we need is being able to host lan servers in whatever server/country and period of time needed in a automatic manner without asking anybody and without any more bullshit

If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

I just imsg you

Yea thats some big issue, i've posted a thread about that already weeks ago. I have tried to get server spawning rights as well over weeks by pm'ing him, and writing e-mails... to no avail. (i am a streamcaster for lvlup)

but then suddenly i got him on irc, and he was very kind and cooperative, took me 5 mins then to get the needed rights :)

i can imagin that they get soo many requests and mails a day, that it might be too much to handle. but thats where you have to do something, cause ppl feel left alone, and thats bad if you want to sell something later.

this is also my case. Syncerror is very nice and understanding and always willing to help, just it is very hard for him to sift through people asking him "how do i join a server??" and people saying "hey mate we are looking at running a competition, we have this as proof we are the real deal". etc

"Syncerror is very nice and understanding and always willing to help"

i guess i still need to see that, all i see are bans and ignores

lolol. is lie. friend say once, 'sync, i have problem, please to help !' and sync say 'no, look, am tell you when you can help us, ok ?'

sync is turbo suka

Calm down... today's update will reward all your angries :S

hahaha, yeh ofc :D

Why is this thing majored when it's not really a news but a forum rant?

why are you allowed to post something when you don't have anything useful to say?

I think they're guides available online on how to write diplomatic news so i don't really have much to add on that matter.

Perhaps you didn't notice yourself but other 95 % of posts made here are not very useful either. So why don't you go reply on each one of them until you realise that posting a reply telling them they're not useful is not useful either. I just blew your mind there didn't i..

k you win, the rules speak for you. :)

The only intelligent post

So you're saying that a thread like this, showing how people trying to promote and support the game we love are getting screwed by id should rot in some forum?

I don't think this thread would've gotten SyncError's attention if it would not have been majored, in fact they don't even communicated with the community on this matter in their own forums.

I believe it's important to raise attention to this situation and as it turned out some other organizers have been treated the same way. Evidently id won't communicate on matters like this through forums, why not try to force them to give a statement to the situation through a newspost on the frontpage?

You don't seem to understand. The problem is the way the news is written. It doesn't fit to be majored quality wise and it just looks like a flame and blame post.

The key word is diplomatic.

This news is basically a piss on id software, which is one of the few companies left still making an arcade style FPS games for a community thats dwarfed compared to others. Should be glad they're "wasting" money on it.


I know it takes some time to get things done considering there is only one contact person in id.
I had to go thru GGL (and they thru id) just to get CB private servers last year which took almost 3 months.

Turns out that thread helped tho.

:/

The QL model is bad but it's your own fault for trying to make anything competitive out of a game that clearly cannot handle it.

And CPM can barely handle a 16 player bracket. Your point?

My point? Try looking above your head.

There's nothing else, so why get the juice out of what's left for us? Besides, tournament\competition wise it's still getting more attention some games 10 times more popular than it, and the community is easily enough to get whatever games you want.

You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about so just shut up.

Hint: the fact that this thread exists proves my point.

It's not like they did this just to say how troublesome it is, they'll probably get more attention from sync now.
Thus, their whine will at least get some of what they should've gotten, yet you go on to write this useless post based on a false assumption that this [and other] trouble proves quakelive being unworthy to play\compete\organise tournaments in and get plussed by vedic, which furthermore proves that it's obsolete crap you're spewing.

You're not getting what I'm saying at all, you seem to think I have something against QL or think it's a bad game or something. I like QL, but I see it for what it is: a casual game. It doesn't have the infrastructure to support a proper competitive community. Stop getting so fucking defensive because you think I'm locked in some sort of futile CPM vs. the world battle.

What I'm implying is that getting most of what we can is the only choice. Besides, the system isn't that awful and with some more work (which will probably last 2 more years instead of a couple of months it should unfortunately) it could be as good for competition as sc2 will be; see how that works out for blizzard.

cpm not tourney game. is more girly-type game made for men who like russia in army get special surprise from colonel yes?

I dunno... that description is sounding a little straight to me... can you throw in someone blowing some unicorns or something?

ID is either lacking funds or a proper working force to get the job done but i guess it is a mixture of both.

iD is doing a good job on killing a community for sure.

If they arent they really should be. ID hasnt published/developed a half decent game in over 10 years. It makes one wonder how shitty the company has become.

Quake community was dead b4 QL tbh

And the remainder is a grumpy piece of shit

i feel you, he has been ignoring me for requests for EPS benelux aswell, this guy also randomly ban people with a reason lets all just play the Quakelive standonline with cp1/cp9/hub3aero etc :D

?
i demand more info!

What a piece of shit thread

you are the main piece

why not just go back to q3 cpma?

because quakelive new kids is want ok? q3 better then ql yes but no new kid want play q3 ok?

spoken yoda has.

no duel detective :(

ql is already dead

I think everyone keeps forgetting that ID software was bought by ZeniMax Media almost a year ago now:
http://kotaku.com/5302060/id-software-bought-...ny-zenimax

This means that since June 24th 2009 ID software does what it is told to do by Bethesda Softworks. And I doubt that anything pertaining to Quakelive fits into that equation. So yes, in all likely scenarios: QL has been Shelved.

Logically; one would need to look no further than to what ID has shown us for the past year, rather than what they've told us. And since ESR is essentially the communal hub for everything quake, its no wonder.

You guys seem not to be not aware of the fact that id Software runs QL server on other people's hardware and bandwidth. Looks like these Australian ISPs see no reason to support all that on their own. They [presumably] have been convinced that one day ad revenue will be generated through the in-game ad system. For some reason the server providers do not have access to the any web or in-game banner ad system, hence they can't even promote their own shit.

perhaps... the servers are still not up

This is exactly what I expected to happen, when nobody is allowed to host dedicated servers themselves.

It is a shame really, and I bet we would have the double amount of players right now, if everyone could host a dedicated server like they could in q3 (also we would have more new maps).

This gets even worse now since id's "community manager" obviously is occupied with other tasks.

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

ID LIED PEOPLE DIED

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

so did this event manage to happen or not?

its in da future still m8

oh okay ty

learning the hard way how to deal with bad management.