GTV for QL exists.

All you need to do is get streamers to do use it.
http://www.esreality.com/post/2435807/fragtv-beta-release/

I think you don't really understand the concept what is really important here.

"FragTV works alongside standard gaming streams. It has its own browser to provide commentary, show the stream between matches and run ads."

That's fucking hilarious. This does not solve #2 and #3 at all. We need to connect to the gtv from our own quake live profiles.

Normally, I don't fucking care about streamers, it's only exciting when stey stream my game.

I think you don't understand how fragtv works.

"#2 you have to watch some other streamer's config:"

How is this not solved if frag tv run inside your QL client with your config?


"#3.: I don't need anyone to tell me about tactics or stories"

You only have in game volume, no casters. Not sure what you're talking about


edit:
frag tv pic #1
Frag tv pic #2

I'M sorry, my bad: didn't have the time to look into the description on the link u gave me. thx!

Yeah fragTV was not perfect, just a beta but it worked like GTV.

The problem was that there was seemingly very little interest from the community.
Streamers didn't use it much, people had nothing to watch on it.

I doubt more people will use it now since people got used to the stream settings

Was? Is it not working anymore? I still dont really understand it. It only works when a streamer uses it?

What do you mean streamers didn't use it? I installed it now and I wanna watch games with it. So when there is a stream, I just automatically connect to fragtv and start to have fun? Or I have to tell the streamer about it?

Of course there was no big interest. Personally I haven't even heard of this. Nobody ever advertised this the was they adveritse streams. It is easier just to click on a stream link than to install this and wolfcam..It's too complicated for lazy players. I'm willing to help with advertising this..everybody loved GTV, and many people hate streams, but that's all they can watch.

You can't get used to stream settings. You are used to your own config, unless you think streamer cfg is the best. But there are many kinds of streams...nvc, russian 102, etc etc....all with different configs, languages, lags...

AnthonyJ said there is no cameraman and that we have to use esdf's script or something in order to turn off stream? That's even more complicated....I understand it is only beta, but it ony delivers 40% of gtv's advantages (no lag, own cfg) which is certainly not enough. Even I would rather skip all this installation stuff and watch stream. That's why fragtv is not famous, not because there are no people hating stream and wanting gtv to be back I think...

Was / is. It's been out almost a year, and nobody has ever used it for a tourney AFAIK.

The way it works is almost exactly the same as GTV for Quake 3 (without CPMA MVDs which have no requirement for a cameraman which makes it simpler for the broadcaster).

The game being broadcast is played on a normal QL server.
The "cameraman" must connect their QL client to the same server as a spectator
The "cameraman" must run FragTV-Server to broadcast their QL client to anyone connecting to that PC
If they wish, the broadcaster can also configure other FragTV-Servers to replay the FragTV broadcast so that people don't have to connect to their PC but can instead connect to a server.
The "viewer" (you) runs the FragTV-Client and gives it the IP address published by the cameraman, and can watch everything the cameraman sees via the Wolfcam client. This step is slightly different from Q3, since in Q3 you didn't need a GTV client application you just connected straight with Q3. But the principal is basically the same.
If the "cameraman" wishes, they can configure FragTV-Server to send the URL of a stream where they can also broadcast audio and content for between matches - that is optional, but was hoped to make it more attractive to the streamers who make their money from the ads. As a viewer, you can either just close the stream window to disable the stream audio, or you can use a forked version that forces that feature off.

At the moment, nobody ever connects to a QL servers and acts as the cameraman in the above scenario, which means nobody can watch anything. Can you connect to the DH servers during a tourney and do it? I guess no - you need the people who are currently streaming to do it, but they do not show any interest in doing this.

As for advertising, the link you were given was to a "major news" article here on ESR, and every time there is a "Give TV now!!!" thread here it gets told to the person whinging. But nobody ever uses it. Perhaps you should spam the tourney organisers + streamers with "where is your FragTV server?!?".

Yes, it's not as neat and tidy as it could be, but the effort for the streamer is no worse than traditional GTV (and no worse than streaming currently is), and this is what is not being done, preventing viewers from even trying to watch.

The fact that nobody ever uses it (and is IMO ever likely to use it) makes it very unlikely that it will get any further polishing.

but can you switch pov and follow whoever you want with FragTV?

No. It is rebroadcasting exactly what the cameraman client sees.

To switch POVs requires the demo recorded by the spectator to contain all players POVs, which isn't supported by QL at the moment.

As a little reminder for everyone, this is the same as in Q3 GTV unless using CPMA (approx 0.99y3 or later, circa 2002):
http://www.geeteevee.com/gtvreadme.php#thecamera

Well, if they want to leave Quake Live as crap as it is today, it's their business. I'm no programmer, so I can't help, wish I could. I wonder where our money (paid for premium and pro membership) goes, if they are unable to pay people to do such things like this. I'd do it, but then again my goal is to freely watch the games like I used to.

On advertising I tried to refer to what's going on at the IRC channels. They do ./amsg with the following message: "Hungary VS France CTF Nationscup stream by xy Live now!" and there is no info about gtv whatsoever. I didn't really follow ESR threads so people like me had no idea gtv beta exists. Yes, I could spam them, maybe that's what I'm going to do from now on :)

I'm 1000000000000% sure people would prefer intergrated gtv (without having to install anything) with the ability of what I'm talking about over streams. It's common sense, I would like to make a poll, but I don't know how. Can somebody help me?

Btw, thanks for your letters.

(some) players want it.

However the broadcasters and tournament organisers clearly don't, otherwise they would already be using the fully working TV software that is there. Ease of use is not the problem for them IMO.

Without the broadcasters / tournament organisers backing, there is no point in further developing a TV.

I understand their motives, (to get the most viewers to their streams), but if this is the main reason gtv is not fully available for us yet, then this is disguisting.

Probably comes down to GTV = no ad revenue for broadcasters.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. If its business-orientated issue, then it is fucking disguisting. This is exactly how you lose your fans. Wp.

What I mean is the broadcasters don't want to use it because they can't make anything off it.

Yes. And? I said I do not fucking care about them. Don't want to hear them. This is about US, not them.

From what is on this thread the problem is not id software: the problem is players do not want GTV, lack of interest.

The reason is, just like GTV, FragTV needs a broadcaster to initiate it. Only those specific servers can be watched, not every match played in the game. Any spec can do it, which right now are streamers (zoot, faceit), tournament organizers (125fps) and usual players that like to spec everything (lets say cooller).

Viewers have never requested a FragTV broadcast and there's no broadcasters doing it without demand, and again id software has nothing to do with that. This also means if there's GTV added to QL it will have the same requirement and most probably viewers still won't request 'channels', so in practice there won't be GTV.

A best solution for your interest -which is not shared with the community's- is to have a system that allows to GTV watch every match in the game, like in some others, but that's not Q3's GTV and most importantly there's no demand for it because the system is already in QL in the form of FragTV and no one requests broadcasts or starts them by their own.

Everybody LOVED gtv, why woldn't they want it back? I say again: I want to make a poll about this, and see what happens. We can't say players don't want gtv without even asking them. So lets ask, I hope it will prove you wrong. Like I said I would gladly help with broadcasting.

Facts are already presented, no need for a poll because no one uses the equivalent and everyone can right now. There must be some poll done some years ago though.

Streams have a lot of advantages. If it wasn't for them competitive quake would be 100% dead, because that would mean no DH, no IEM, no faceit, no zoot (125fps coverage) and casters in general, etc.

GTV is way overrated. Viewers were much less than today, it was an insider-niche thing (a ip and some gtv and lag compensation commands), casting was radio only and it was not automatic to connect, coverage of events was only of the matches, chatting was impossible in practice (except "I'm spraying cum everywhere 1!1!!!"), etc.

Also consider there are some cons of adding GTV officially to the game. First things first no one uses Frag TV so probably GTV won't be used anyway, then it's wasting developers' time in something no one is going to use (won't be a first though), and if it does get used then streams will suffer such as the said ones and coverage of everything will necessarily be lesser.

In the end Streams are technically better in almost every way. The only aspects where they aren't is requirements to watch, which is sorting your connection out and a a 2008 and onwards pc, and lack of personalization. The first issue is not that much as I watch quake (one of the most demanding games to watch on twitch because of those pseudo detailed textures) at the office with a rather slow connection on a purposely weak pc (so I don't play) and handles medium flawlessly and in some streams source, and at home for watching I use a current-ish low to mid end laptop (i5, gf 740m) and it handles source np.

Let me tell you about facts:

"By Spain lokaria
GTV is a must"

"By Quake 3 ^AME-
I want a stream without commentary and just one POV, no switching."

"By Germany - Niedersachsen fKm "
GTV is great!

just to mention a few, not to talk about the same opinions of many fellow hungarians quakers and people who already upvoted my thread.

Competitive quake is dead today. In the old times there was no stream, there was GTV. Those were the times when competitive quake was alive.

And I say again: you don't have to stop streams. I just want gtv option to be available for us.

And GTV spam (spraying cum) was one of the best thing EVER in quake history. Added lots of excitement to the games, it is very very strange that you didn't feel the same. And you can turn off chat anytime.

This is what I miss here and missed in my another topic (mercylimit): the power of free will. Why can't I decide what player I want to watch? Why can't I decide when a game is over (why mercylimit wants to tell me). Even god can't control free will, so why the bloody fuck are we under someone's control?

"no one uses Frag TV so probably GTV won't be used anyway"

man, if people just don't understand what I mean, it useless for me to keep talking to you all. I said multiple times:
fragtv is 40% of what gtv is capable to do.
fragtv is 40% of gtv
40% of gtv

of course no one uses it. you just dont defend developers. there are lots of things they could have imported from quake 3. i think they do a pretty damn bad job. would fire all of them in a blink of an eye.

I exposed my point already. I'll only add that while I did like chat back in the day now it's much, much better than it ever was, and that the transmission of FragTV and GTV start the exact same way (GTV and FragTV are not automatic) yet pretty much there's been 0 of FragTV's, QL era.

man, if people just don't understand what I mean, it useless for me to keep talking to you all. I said multiple times:
fragtv is 40% of what gtv is capable to do.

You also said that you're not a programmer, that's why you probably don't understand how this thing works.

A 40% version of GTV was released to test the waters, very few people were interested in using it, it turns out people prefer streams. Why would you invest more time producing a client that would work 100% which would take a lot of time and effort with people using it.

you just dont defend developers. there are lots of things they could have imported from quake 3. i think they do a pretty damn bad job. would fire all of them in a blink of an eye.

All of them or both of them? They lack manpower, it's just two guys working on the code and fixing stuff.

Also if you check the original FragTV thread you will see that I supported the project and I'm not against it, I even talked with the dev and streamers about making it more popular but people just didn't care.

I could set up a poll but it's really pointless, GTV demo version was released, people prefered stream over it, no need to invest more time in this project

I get your point. Let's say your father buys you a car, a wreck. But the wreck's 40% contains parts of a Ferrari. Left front tire, for example. Would you be happy for it?

Please, make a poll. It can't hurt! Look at some of the comments. I am not alone with my inquiry.

I think that boat has sailed, I set up a strawpoll for you, feel free to throw the link around and gather some input.


http://strawpoll.me/1263537

You don't think. Shove this up your ass, I demand my poll here on ESR.

You like to demand things, right?

who are you? i dont know you at all, so stop acting like you know me. I have the right to call a poll here, and I wish to live with my right, period. thanks for your offtopic comment, was very useful.

What made you think you had the right to create a Esr poll?

Evrybody does, who has a good idea, like mine.

A 40% version of GTV was released to test the waters, very few people were interested in using it, it turns out people prefer streams. Why would you invest more time producing a client that would work 100% which would take a lot of time and effort with people using it.

Hmm, I heard it was being worked on, but I never heard about any test version, perhaps very few people were interested because they didn't do a good job of letting anyone know? :/

Integrated GTV can be done only by id software but they can't fix major bugs at game. And they told many times they will not add team overlay to spectator...

If there were seriously a chance that it would get used, it would probably take a relatively short amount of time to polish this into a nicer state:

Stage one would be to:
- build a "viewer" package which bundles the client (built for Windows), Wolfcam, and perhaps a new tool or at least a script to sync the Wolfcam data with QL to ease installation
- build a "broadcaster" package which bundles pre-built Linux and Windows binaries for easy installation, and write better docs explaining how to use it

With a bit more work (and some server resource), you could:
- change FragTV-Server to "dial home" and report their IP addresses so that you can easily find all active TVs
- Provide a centralised location for downloading FragTV client installs
- provide some website showing the FragTV servers that are running, and provide links to connect them

And with even more work:
- Potentially hook the above website into the QL client via the hook.js interface so that you can see and connect to the TVs directly from within QL (no idea how much work that'd be or whether there would be ....)

I'm sure the poll would show us how many people wants gtv back. That should give an idea for the developers.

You have GTV back already.

What you don't have is a GTV that is significantly better than Q3's GTV which integrates better into the client than Q3's ever did.

Yes, but the current GTV misses almost every benefits the old one delivered to us. I will try to help advertising this.

"FragTV works alongside standard gaming streams. It has its own browser to provide commentary, show the stream between matches and run ads."

"FragTV works alongside standard gaming streams."

"FragTV works alongside."

"works alongside"

"alongside"

"Provide commentary if you wish...." Is more accurate (you may need to use esdf's fork of the client where he completely disabled the stream window - I never did get around to adding a checkbox to make it client selectable in my fork).

You watch the game inside a QL client (well, wolfcam), so you get control over config etc, and not lagging as it is only transferring demo data not a stream.

You don't get full control over who to watch as QL doesn't support MVDs so you need a cameraman like you did in old school q3 GTV. But hey, what is the point in id putting in work to enable this if nobody even uses the current solution?

cs:go have a TV option to watch any game which is currently being played.

little details like this is why ql is bad, it has nothing to do with the gameplay, it's just a retarded platform

followkiller in ctf is just nonsense

followpowerup & flagcarrier also.

rather do bind x spec pu, and bind y spec fc instead. that way you manualy switch through pu players or fc's. also you can do bind x spec red/blue to switch only thru players on a certain team.

Note my thread I did some weeks ago: http://esreality.com/post/2510876/suggestion-...streaming/
GTV is great! Even for streaming it is the best!
I am so sad QLRanksTV is no more :(

Someone give me the the scripts and such for QLRanksTV and I will run it! Or is it because of the standalone that is is no longer??

thx!

Your saying thanks to a live stream not FragTV.

You're.
And I say thanks because it's a pleasure to see that my thread made you do something. anything.

I have done nothing. But I have no problems running a 24hr live stream of QL matches if someone wants to give me the scripts for changing servers so it stays continuously live.

AFAIK it's because of the standalone. It probably means a small rewrite of the bot which means high time requirement to put it back up.

Interesting. You even say the same as I do:

"I dont want to say that they sould provide a FragTV server for everyone so no one would watch their stream!"

exactly. nobody wants stream, everbody wants gtv, why dont we do something about this?

nobody wants stream, everbody wants gtv, why dont we do something about this?

Sorry buddy but you're on your own.
A lot of people want stream, not many want GTV.
Something was done about this and there was just no incentive, even with FragTV running (qlranks team, easytarget), people generally weren't interested enough to warrant an in-game GTV.

I understand your point of view and see what you mean, but there's more interest in streams right now.

That could be due to various things. #1: like I said, the current thing works only on 40%. #2 you have to install various programs in order to use it.

That's why I want to do a poll. Like I said: even I would rather watch streams than this 40% beta gtv. So the question we must ask is not: what do u like more, fragtv or streams, but

Which did you prefer more: q3 gtv or QL stream?

That would show us the real demands of our community. so tell me, How can I make a poll?

http://www.strawpoll.me/

thanks, but I want to do it here on ESR. this is not serious at all.

Since when was ESR serious?

It is more serious and popular than this kindergerten stuff, that's for sure. Besides, I am not an agent who knocks on your door to make you fill a poll. :)

isn't he saying that ESR isn't serious? "i want to do it here on ESR [because] this is not serious at all."

Im past the age when i wank to some player. Watching games without commentary is no fun at all.

and hell no, im not going back to syncing game with commentary. thats so 2005

FragTV actually has a weird barcode solution to attempt to automatically sync the stream with the game (I think the idea is that it can embed a barcode as a timing symbol into the stream which the FragTV client can then pick up).

I've never tested it but I guess there is quite a lot of code for it so I guess it probably works if you know what you're doing.

You're not a real Quaker. You didn't agree with mercylimit, nor you agree with me this time. Nice to know you're the kind of person who others tell what to watch and what to do, instead of deciding what is good for you yourself. Besides, I didn't say streams should disappear. You could still be able to watch it, but not everybody is like you.

Im not a real Quaker because i dont cry over lost glory and actually can accept the changes?

God, my life was a lie.


Or maybe not? I think not being a real quaker is something to be proud of. at least im not biased dinosaur.

You still like being told what to do instead of doing it yourself. I won't accept what I don't like.

You're also not doing what you want. You just pretend. If lack of gtv is such a problem for you: np, code it, send to ID. After setting law matters they will use it.

Do it, instead of making whine threads. Be fucking usefull, or remain silent.



Ow, and when you get into real world, you will understand you cant always get what you want, and you will follow things you dont accept.

I just offered my help (if you wasnt paying attention) for vor_, i wrote that I am not a programmer but I would help if I can.

You have a big mouth, but the only guy who didn't remain silent was me, not you.

In real life you have to call a vote in order to change something. If only I demand gtv, then indeed it's useless for me to create "whine threads", as you call it. Since I don't know how to make a poll, I'm creating threads. Until someone tells me.

But nice try characterizing me, too bad you failed - once again.

if you're not a programmer - learn it, thousands of people every year do it. but no, you wont. why? is your precious gtv not important enough? a lot of work is already done, because all you have to do is use q3 gtv in ql, which is almost exactly the same.

But better and easier to just sit and whine, right?



Also - i was refering to more of a day to day work situations, guess it was too hard for your dinosaur brain. And considering how many flame you get here, you dont need a poll. The anwser is no.

Don't tell me what to do, you can't. Making gtv is

not
my
job.

My job here is to measure just how many people agrees with me. This is not whining, this thread is born to make a change, and I hope it will. You hope it won't. That's the difference between you and me, my friend. Results willhopefully open the eyes of the right persons, or if it won't, then at least I tried. You didn't, so shut your useless mouth.

"Learn it". Lmao. It's you who should learn where things are. You are officially an idiot now, congrats!

Making gtv is not your job, yet you want it. Or maybe you dont want it at all, and just want to make some pointless whine, and id is perfect because they wont reply, especially not on esr.

You are pathetic whining cunt, and your only job here is to make yourself feel better, because you're a fucking loser.

You may cry here as much as you want, but your tears wont make gtv happen. If you have nothing to offer, and i assure: you dont, then please who is useless again? Cause its not me for sure.

"Making gtv is not your job, yet you want it." Yes, and I work so changes might happen. Everybody has his own job, yours is to shut the fuck up, you are not welcome here. Added u to my ignore list by the way.

ps. Because of my "work", many people already recognized that there is beta gtv, and I got lost of comments saying they need gtv back.

counter-strike is much more popular and uses GOTV, doesn't seem to bother people there

thats why theres so many cs-go streams

I want a stream without commentary and just one POV, no switching.

The commentators are talking all the time, it's very annoying.

so damn true. who the fuck cares? unless it's 2gd ofc.

GTV is a must.
Thing i hate the most apart from shitty lags everytime i try to watch anything, is casters, its pointless for me, even if it is the best caster in the world I cant enjoy a single word.
Same happens with Starcraft.

exactly.

cause you both can't understand english :D

RIGHT :DD how do you think we wrote here then? google translate? :D

crossed my mind :D :D

If people are so desperate for GTV/FragTV to be used why don't they do it themselves? Why expect a streamer to do it, there's already a load of shit to focus on while running a stream without adding another thing to worry about. I doubt tournament admins are going to be opposed to an additional person connected to a server to provide the FragTV option for all 17 people in the FragTV community.

Well, who operated gtvs in the past? I think the answer to your question is: because there is no fully functioning gtv yet. Btw, I would gladly help, but nowadays I just dont have much free time for this.

Ql needs something like dotatv. Tournament organizers then can decide how much they want to charge for a ticket if anyone doesn't wanna see the stream.
I'd suggest id to just copy dota2 business model with 2.0 and you are set.

streams work on my mobile phone, gtv won't.

let me say again: just because there is gtv, you dont have to watch it instead of stream. cool feature btw.

That awkward moment when thousand idiots asked for GTV and they don't even know it's available. No one actually gives a shit, but want to complain about random things of no value.

(no disrespect to gtv devs)

"fragtv is 40% of what gtv is capable to do.
fragtv is 40% of gtv
40% of gtv"

therefore there is NO GTV at the moment!

Excluding the CPMA MVD support, what exactly do you think is missing from FragTV that is present in Q3's GTV?

nostalgia value, biiiiiiiiiiiitch

you should tell me, if you know how gtv used to be, and how fragtv works today...

You're the one saying it doesn't exist though. I say it does.

AFAIK, the list is:
- ingame chat. I think (not certain) chat is limited to via the twitch.tv chat window integrated into the FragTV client, so if you're full screen or aren't using the twitch streaming feature, you can't spray.

I don't think fragtv is 40% of what gtv is capable to do

There are 6 total benefits of gtv:

-fun ingame chat, like you mentioned
-no commentators
-MVD
-own cfg
-no lags
-if not MVD, then at least 2 separate channels (which used to be in osp until cpma cam)

3 out of these things came true in FragTV. That is 49%, so you're right, I was a bit wrong. It's still 40% though ;)

There is no gtv.

Neither cpma mvd, nor osp multiple channels are q3 or GTV features (the clue is you naming mods rather than GTV versions), so I don't count either. Chat is present, but just not perfect.

So of the 6 things you list, 2 are invalid GTV features, 3 are present, and 1 is 50% complete. So I would call it 87.5%

The point is, people could use it right now and see all the tourneys with no buffering, high res, no commentary, own config settings. But since it doesn't happen, the community (incl those hosting the tourneys) have made a decision not to do it. Adding chat or multi view, or simplifying setup would not change this. You know that from your reply to #16

Btw, 3/6 = 0.49?

I dont care if they are invalid GTV features, they are features. Q3 had these features, so QL should have it too. Your argument is invalid.
Doesnt matter if it is 90% or 40%. It is not 100%, that's what matters. I wish not to talk about this any longer. We need a poll and see what happens.

No, Q3 didn't have MVD. You needed another third party mod for it. This is his point and it's a good one. FragTV isn't lacking this feature : GTV never had it to start with. If anything, it's QL that's lacking MVD.

Wrong. In Quake 3 cpma there was MVD. I do not care how you call it, how you categorise it: it was a fully available feature. Yes, in Q3. It is NOT available in QL. Quake3 was the golden era of quake, QL is just a ripoff.

The good old days, the golden era, if you have forgotten about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRC3_y2KgW8

still, frag tv / gtv can't have mvd if ql doesn't support it. only thing it does is forward a demo instead of a huge stream to your end.

if you want mvd you need to harass id software. mvd would be great, not cause of gtv, but cause of always having everyone's demo.

I'm afraid it is not enough if only I harass id software. I need assistance and this is why this thread was born.

<FlashSoul>

No, Q3 didn't have MVD. You needed another third party mod for it.

<s7ry>

Wrong. In Quake 3 cpma there was MVD.

CPMA was a mod, a 3rd party modification. FlashSoul is entirely correct MVD was never an integral part of Q3 itself.

Correct. Add mvd support to QL demos and as long as wolfcam can correctly play back those demos then FragTV will support it with no changes to FragTV

There is fragTV (gtv-like feature),

Glad you changed your view. Shame about the attitude on the way there.

My attitude is thanks to the negative, spiteful commenters that tried to make me look like a fool. Like I said, I just can't stand behaviour like that. They just got what they deserved.

By the way, why are there polls on ESR, when we can not achieve anything with them? My poll is amongst the most popular ones, and gets no attention whatsoever?!

"thousand" :D

never felt the need for gtv in QL, levelup more than satisfied me. in fact i'd be angry if id decided to use resources on making gtv rather than other more imporant things

I bet u "weren't there"

- to feel the freedom
- to watch with ur config, or even better with a demo config, with super smooth motion and perfect colors and 0 lagging
- to watch whoever you wanted, the games you wanted, from the pov you wanted
- to feel how cool, unique and dare say “underground” all that was
- how above its time, when while in other games and sports you were struggling through the TV or stream to feel the game you were watching, in q3 you were really inside it (it was like you were playing).

I got the feeling you don't know about what we are talking here...
If you didn't "live it", you won't understand or appreciate it.

On the other hand, I really liked the stream experience in few tournaments that they did many interviews and let the players cast. I especially remember one Dreamhack that were players in the mic most of the time.

lolled hard, bulbo pls.

i've played since the end of '96 which is the very beginning of quake and i was there at the height of Q3. i feel no need to bring gtv back

you are a strange person. who said we must erase streams? if u want, keep listening to the shittalk, as for me, I want to concentrate on the game. I WANT gtv, and it has nothing to do with you. you dont want it back? fine, who cares?

I dont remember asking "who is not with me?"

I asked "who is with me"?

so fuck you all for your negative comments tbh.

there already is a program for this purpose, absolutely no one uses or has asked for it and its not because its lacking 1 feature that q3 gtv had, and im certainly against id using any resources on it. community enthusiasts can do whatever they want

you seem to suffer from some kind of delusion in general. every thread you post in, your opinion becomes everyone's opinion. there's literally less than a handful of guys supporting this

Plus he can do that broadcast himself.

Also in the strawpoll exactly 8 people want GTV back lel

the question aint right at all, and it is manipulative as hell, i am educated enough to recognize this.

I will make an ESR poll with the right question soon. ;)

This is exactly why I wanted an ESR poll. Do you think this strawpoll is as popular as ESR? Did you send it to your quaker friends? Do polls have 1 or 2 days to take effect? Google the word "representative research".

The poll should consider the pros and cons because implementing GTV does take a lot of time for devs considering they are only two persons, and the question and answers do.

A ESR poll will never be representative. ESR is at best 5% of QL players and ESR is pretty much hardcore-only.

In the end the thing is you are demanding stuff while feeling representative of players, and at the same time putting 0 effort or backup into it. As we have said plenty of times years proven facts say viewers aren't interested in a new GTV as there's been 0 broadcasts ever, and lets remember you once again that right now you can start a FragTV broadcast just like GTV worked. Until both it's just words.

Oh and btw if GTV is developed into QL it certainly won't be available to standard users.

I don't want to hurt you precious stream. If you are so afraid of gtv taking away many viewers from streams, then why do you say nobody wants gtv?

I only demand a POLL, not a gtv, do not switch things up. How could I put more effort in it than offering help as a broadcaster and advertising? Programming is not my fucking job.

As I have said plenty of times there is no gtv at the moment. You have to watch players they tell you to watch, you have to install many applications, and nobody fucking tells us HOW TO USE IT. Was there a poll about this? You're the one talking about backing things up? Tell me, how can you back up yoir information about nobody wanting gtv?

" lets remember you once again that right now you can start a FragTV broadcast just like GTV worked"

just like gtv worked? how many fucking times do I have to tell you that without the ability to watch whoever you wanna watch, fragTV is NOT equal to gtv.

I am not a standard user, I pay for this game... Is a copy-paste command from quake3 into QL so much to ask for?

I only demand a POLL, not a gtv

What you fail to understand is that there is no one currently developing or interested in developing this for you. You can demand it all you want, but there are no developers, you can't develop it yourself so in essence, YOU ARE DEMANDING THAT "SOMEONE" DOES IT. And I think this is bullshit.

You're the one talking about backing things up? Tell me, how can you back up yoir information about nobody wanting gtv?

People have replied to you repeatedly and explained, THERE WAS A TEST VERSION THAT DID NOT GATHER ANY INTEREST FROM THE COMMUNITY, this is why the development stopped and the "40% of GTV" was never fully developed to a "100% GTV" We don't need an official ESR poll for something that is already established, we can't just create a poll for every stupid question

Is a copy-paste command from quake3 into QL so much to ask for?

If you really believe it all it takes is a copy paste then go on and copy paste FragTV source code and improve it.

Wait you can't, you're just here DEMANDING stuff.

But to make things fair, I will make a poll for you, send me an iMsg with poll options.

What you also fail to understand is that even if you get hundreds of votes, we still need someone to develop it.

Thank you, but I'm talking with perpetualwar. He would make a poll but he is saying the same: there are no resources whatsoever. We could develop current fragtv to support one POV or multiple channels at least. If iD won't do anything about it, then there is no use of the poll :(

So I understand it, I just don't understand why am I paying for this game, if I can't get support.

I am not demanding. I really want gtv to be back, and I'll do anything I can to make it happen.

I don't care about the test version, can't u understand?
here's what fragtv offers right now:

1. you can watch game with ur own config (its the same thing as downloading demos after the match from a player)
2. you don't have to listen to the streamer
3. there are no lags.

That's it. 2 of gtv's main features. And it takes like 10 minutes to install it, unexperienced users will have problems with it. So I completely understand why everybody is watching stream.

i plussed you because i was sure ur trolling.

no man, I was serious... my trolling isn't that good :(

but I watch you to pick a thing or two :P

btw u r, not ur

You are fucking right, man. You should have created this thread :) That's exactly what I'm talking about.

wait, id uses resources? HAHA

how did i not know fragtv exists? can i watch the fps league and faceit with this?

q3>ql
gtv rocked, streams suck
all the good casters are gone, only annoying retards are left
watch quake to watch quake, not to have your ears polluted with some moron's stereotypical nonsense

that's the idea!

it would be great if pro players could host both normal and gtv servers

streamers are not available all the time, hosting gtv server would be great possibility to watch many interesing cup/league matches

i could be available all the time but it's not really worth it over other work unfortunately :(

yeah, that's the problem right there. normally this shouldn't be done without payment.

#nostalgia

If I understand correctly, some people are opposed to GTV because they assume it would be detrimental to known streams, which then would be a bad thing for the Quake. At the same time they pretend that no one cares about GTV, though.

It sounds plain wrong and a bit incoherent to me.

you dont seem to understand correctly

Well, I wasn't talking about you specifically, but I don't get why anyone would be opposed to GTV. If you prefer streams, that's perfectly fine and understandable, but being dependant on twitch for watching the Quake clearly sucks. A lot of channels are unwatchable for me.

i dont think anyone is against gtv if its made by community enthusiasts. id wasting resources on gtv however is a completely different thing. there has been absolutely 0 use for fragtv and its not because its lacking 1 feature from q3 gtv

there are simply tons of things that should be added to ql before gtv

"[19:31] <PerpetualWar> thats worst imo, many didnt know about it
[19:31] <PerpetualWar> wasnt advertised correctly"

maybe if they are someone else's words and not mine, you will believe it.

how many times do I have to tell you this fact?

But I agree, QL needs a lot of work. If id doesn't have resources, why doesn't it asks for it? I'm sure they could find lots of volunteers.

no one outside of the most dedicated and crazy part of community gives a shit about gtv when there are streams. and all those people are here, so we know.

fragtv got pretty much the same promotion on ESR as anything else community related gets in the beginning. it didnt get picked up and it was forgotten about. if "everyone" had a raging boner for gtv, dont you think atleast one guy would have started promoting it seriously? or is it more likely that no one really gave a shit and the 3 guys who want GTV didnt care enough?

3 guys?

http://strawpoll.me/1263537/r

and what do the 3000 people on twitch.tv/faceittv think who don't know irc, esr or similar?

how do you mean? how will they know on stream that there is gtv ?

Because pretty much all of us except frontpage are here :P

And we knew about FragTV and how to use it, unlike a certain someone that demands stuff yet has no clue and puts no effort.

Maybe FragTV didn't get advertised enough? Me, for one, didn't even knew FragTV existed until I read this thread.

true. thx.

enough is a subjective term. objectively it got the same attention on the frontpage as anything else, atleast a few frontpaged posts. like i said, if there was a horde of players just waiting to bounce on gtv, SOMEONE would have atleast tried to use it.

as it is, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from using it right now, it's in a working condition so why dont you just go ahead and try it? instead of demanding the guy to offer up his free time to finalize the project to your liking or id to put in their resources, atleast show it some support and try to see if there's any interest in using it

well tbh, I did try setting up FragTv server yesterday with some minor difficulties, but I'm looking forward to get it working.

<3

Ok we're doing some tests to FragTV, so far we got it to work locally with Wolfcam 9.11

Some issues with port forwarding that we're trying to resolve, will keep you updated

and that's exactly the reason no one will use it hehe

Port forwarding is a general networking thing, nothing particularly to do with fragtv.

way to miss the point

Wow...Nice! We should make a thread with installation tips/steps.... Ill help in the advertisement part!

Started advertising strawpoll, I hope we can expect real results soon.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2436700/tutoria...up-fragtv/

hah :D

Even with the manipulative (in a negativa way) question, we have 61% win for gtv. 40 votes.

Great now just get cracking!

Nice. Only 9,999 to go.

Are u fucking stupuid?

ESH CTF SPRING CUP TO BE PLAYED IN 5V5 ? (146 comments)
( Major Poll: QL) Posted by PerpetualWar @ 08:24 CET, 24 February 2014 - iMsg, Mark
[Change Answers]
[Show 81 Votes]

CTF 5v5: 63% (51)

CTF 4v4: 37% (30)

I gathered almost more votes than this one had. After that poll, 4v4 changed to 5v5. How many active quakers are there you think? Can't believe you can still give negative comment after the nice results. Disguisting.

51 people is way less than 1% of QL players.

That's a poll of a community made cup and takes no resources to make that change; entirely different than this. Plus obviously that was discussed before within admins and players of that cup, so that the poll isn't binding.

Stop nagging. Were you the guy who I told look after the word "representative research"? If yes, then you didn't do your job. If not, I must tell you the same.

Besides, what 1% are you talking about?

(hint: if you ask 100 people in a 2000 people community, and 60% of them says that they need gtv then 60% of the community needs gtv

Besides #2.: I just started to advertise the poll, it is everything but the end yet.

QL at least has 20k players and in this community (at most 10% of players) no one cared about the project when it was presented multiple times on front page. Actually you haven't either, as you haven't broadcasted yet.

With that 'advertising' what you are doing is rigging the poll by telling people to vote for your option, if not voting multiple times yourself. For instance before you started doing so most people voted the other way, as stated on this thread.

I didn't ask you how much players have registered since ql was born. I ask you, how many of them are active?
20k? are you fucking serious, man?

Easily.

As for all registered what we have is those that played at least once since 2011, which is exactly 550,702 accounts. For what's before that there were the awards, which said there were more than 2 million.
http://www.qlranks.com/


In the end the problem here is this. Really should read it again and again and again: http://esreality.com/post/2569163/let-s-bring...pid2570383

if there is really 20k people playing ql, then why can't we see them ingame? why every TDM and CTF server is empty and why can i only see like 30 people playing duel 24/7? where are them? why only like 120 ppl idle on irc tdmpickup? if there would really be 20k people, then we would start noticing them, don't u think? why are there no LANs anymore every month? where is quake from quakecon? quake seems to be dead for me

I don't even know how to install fragTV, man, don't tell me to broadcast please. I'll find a man who can. Told u before: everybody has to do what he can do. My profession is advertising, which exactly what fragTV lacked.

Because the world is a big place, public activity is way bigger than comps and the server browser never shows all servers. With the default settings and no premium account it can go as low as half or less.

QL was at the last dreamhack and seems like it will be in the next one.

Anyway, can't expect much from someone that missed the numbers so far (20k total instead of 2 millions rofl).

Let me tell you again: I do not care about how many people registered to QL. I also (and you shouldn't too) don't care about how many people play QL once a year, etc etc. I care about real quakers, who play day by day. And that never-ever came even close to 20k, but 1k neither.

Dreamhack, c'mon, lmao. ESWC, CPL, Quakecon, etc. Don't you remember?

I still don't know what 20k you're talking about.

Full servers get filtered out of view.

wow, is your real name Sherlock Holmes?

I'm greatly anticipating your GTV implementation.

I can help you with that one.

1. 20k (or whatever it really is) active players doesn't mean 20k players online at the same time. "Active" in itself is pretty subjective as well. A player that logs in only once a month can still be considered active, for instance. Any number will be meaningless without proper definitions.

2. The tier system. (NOTE : pretty much nothing of that applies to duel) A tier 4 player won't see T1, T2 and T3 servers. You can only see some from your friends list if one of your friend is in such a server. Also, T4 players might be the "most active" players, but they are still a minority in QL (less than a quarter of the playerbase).

3. Private servers won't appear in the match browser (unless they are only password protected and you set your filter to "private"). It's hard to judged how many players play in those. I do often, though.

4. Full servers are by default hidden. You have to set your filter settings to "All Populated" to see them.

5. The number of Premium servers visible if you are not a subscriber is limited (unless you set your filters to Premium only).

Ok. That was for the activity you can see. The rest of your post consists on judging the activity on QL as a whole through minorities. That's not a very good estimation method. CTF and TDM aren't popular gametypes. CA and FFA represent 75% of the activity in QL. (That said, there should always be a few CTF servers up. Moded servers on crap maps maybe, but it's still CTF.)

Basically, the key is to understand that only a small minority of QL players are interested in competition. The people idling on TDM pickup channels are a minority among a minority. (TDM is one of the less active gametypes, tied with FT but above the "new" gametypes. Also, few people still idle on IRC in 2014.) You won't be able to judge the size of a community by looking at small minorities.

I'm well aware of all that, I'm an experienced quaker, remember? :) You must know that I play regularly, so I know how many people are on quake 24/7, because I'm checking premium, All populated and duel servers as well. And I have to say not much. I don't really care about CA, FT etc players, the lease I care about is FFA players.

My gtv needs are limited to CTF, TDM and duel, who cares about other gametypes? So it's irrevelant how many people play quake. The minority of minority is what matters really. That is why this poll is representative.

I would be the happiest person if Quake was as popular as CS or WOW etc. But that's not the case. Seriously, why would I care about 12 year olds playing FFA at a japanese server? Those guys will never watch any stream, nor gtv. They are completely irrevelant.

i like you but there are not 20k active (playing 3 times a week) players in ql....

not even close

more like 3-5k if that

In the end it's all speculation. The only one that can answer that is sirax (qlranks), who hopefully will.

Active = once a month.

rofl holy fuck... 40 guys voted for it! that's surely gonna inspire some dude to put in hours of effort to code or id to put it in...

You basically do the same as megaman. Do you think this poll will have results in 2 days? Oh yeah, and housework for you too: google "representative research".

seriously. do you think gtv is gonna pop out of thin air or there's someone holding it back on purpose? someone has to make it

We don't need your negative comments. Look at Yakumo's. We need comments like his. THAT will lead us to change. But easy for you to speak, you don't want it.

But, I'll answer your question with a question. How you think it will be made, when nobody gives a shit about it?

It's not about negativity: it's about telling you the consequences of your selfishness.

Though this thread doesn't matter at all. With the two-man dev team I can almost guarantee GTV (100% the same) will never be officially integrated into QL, because it's too demanding on them, no one has interest in it (again fragtv and also GTV was watched by less than 1% of players) and in the end it's a small addition in a game that has 100 other priorities before that, namely QL 2.0 and keeping updates going on. All these 'demands' are fruitless.

In the end the realistic options are:
- That you (not anyone else) start broadcasting using FragTV, which is very similar to GTV with the only missed aspect of MVD.
- if you want that to be improved then fund the project, like people fund cups all the time, though even then it will be known by 1% of players because it won't be in the client.

keeping what updates, man??????? new enemycolor? christmas ctf maps? ahahahah man, you can't be serious. every QL update is useless, people are laughing about it, if you haven't noticed.

gtv is a thing finally would be useful. I won't tell u for the 5th time that why was it watched by 1% of the community, I'm sure you'll find the answer.

besides, its not only id who can make a change.

The question is if the sample size is big enough to provide sufficient statistical power and beside of that you assume that ESR is representative for the whole Quake Live community. I know that's kind of offtopic, but you asked people to google, so I ask you to do the same: "representative sample" "sample size and statistical power"

I do not assume ESR is representative for the whole QL community. Quote me, where did I say that? I said that strawpoll won't be as popular as a poll here on ESR. Smartass.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of gtv but I cannot stand it if someone tries to make people look stupid with numbers. 61% with a sample size of 66 is hardly to be called significant.

yeah, ure right. how about people saying a newly called poll should have 9,999 votes in 2 days? and how about those who are saying "nobody gives a shit about gtv" without having ANY numbers. why are only "flaming" me?

Maybe you should promote your poll on http://www.quakelive.com/forum/forumdisplay.p...Discussion

thank you. the results are almost enough for me now, maybe it"s soon time to upgrade fragtv or something. btw, I appreciate every help I can get with promoting :) Thanks for the idea!

i wanna vote on we need GTV, but streams are convenient and im very lazy. its just a shame that streams are unreliable pieces of SHITE, ontop of having them run by people who believe picmip 0 is benificial, because we need more blocky artifacts to see whats going on. this attracts new people. also play by play commentary, repeating everything that happened 5 seconds ago, you know, we cant let the blind quake fans sit in the dark. an option for silence would be nice.

tldr, GTV wins.

"streams are convenient and im very lazy"

exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is why people never use it. I don't understand how can people like frs be so blind not seeing this. Strange world we are living in :) Or strange people?

laughed my ass of at picmip 0. SO TRUE

yeah when watching a game, it being convenient and easy is a bad thing!

Streams generate revenue though.

streams are a good thing for newer players, because the commenators can help them to understand the game. But for myself, I want to have the ability to watch a game without boring drivel and be able to follow the pov I want.

So does premium membership and overall user satisfaction. I know a player who would PAY for id if there was gtv. Does not pay for quake right now. How's that for a revenue? If you only think about money, and you give a shit about what community wants, u will not be successful i think.

GTV was just as fucking laggy as streams. Worse with major matches.

i remember cl_timenudge 80 helped back then. it would stutter if left on -20 :>

great. Another proof I said there is NO gtv at the moment. Teen Queen, AnthonJ i hope you're reading this.

I supported the project when it came out, provided feedback and tested servers and made sure chat was fully functional.

Me and perpetual are working on setting up a server with current wolfcam version and possibly developing it further.

I'm not against GTV/FragTV, I just don't expect people to use it and I know id won't waste their time developing for the thousands of reasons already posted in this thread.

That's very strange. I'm certain I have connected FragTV -Client to a FragTV-Server and had it successfully stream demos of matches to me.

What reasons? How many times do I have to disprove them?

People first said only 3 guys will vote. At 8 votes for gtv, they laughed that "it's only 8". And so on (42, 50, 60). So many non-believers here. And I'm so happy to prove them wrong. Currently we have reached milestone 70. That's 70 people wanting gtv back. And counting.

much wow, many vote, very clap clap.

First: fuck you. Second: we already reached more votes than 80% of the polls here on ESR. So shut your mouth, we are making progress here.

Housework for you too: google the word "representative research". Hope you are able to type it in, but I can also

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=representative+sample

Let's bring back Q3? Better

q3 never went away, you are free to play it.

Just because QL exists it doesn't mean Q3 is gone, there's still servers going and if you want to boost activity host some q3 cups.

It's that simple.

Plused u for the first time (or second) :)

You don't understand.


Teeny weeny string bikini drama queen

:DDDDDDDDD ahahahah true!

90 voters now for gtv. Proving non-believers wrong since 2014. That will be my quote from now on till I die :DD
thx for the ones who voted with f1 :)

question: what if you reach 200 people or more vote for gtv? id wont help you develop it, thats for sure. It develop itself either. By the time its done, Quake Live died and we move on.

ps. Do not get me wrong, I vote for gtv

I didn't get you wrong, you are polite and make a point unlike some other commentators. I just wanna show to those people that there is a need for gtv and maybe get some extra help on the way. Already talked to some persons like perpetualwar, so there is some progress: #fragtv is back again on IRC! :)

So have you connected to a fragtv now and seen that despite your claims, it does exist, if just in need of a little polishing.

As anonymous pointed out above, GTV was notoriously laggy (even more so when the chat that you so dearly miss was in full swing with the spams after something good happened) and you'd get dropped sounds very frequently. It was far from perfect, nostalgia goggles are cool though.

Also, I love that you're willing to help but as you've stated you know fuck all about programming and you stated even later that you 'don't have much free time'. lol.

Further, if you don't want to hear a commentator, mute the stream. I do this frequently with Russian streams because they still have picmip'd graphics (very wow much thanks Mother Russia) and are usually far less laggy than anything from the West (faceit, zoot etc, much love for facey tournaments though [bring back the NA cup]). What we truly need for flawless Quake tournament viewing is first person demos, but sadly nobody seems to give a fuck about this except DreamHack, but this isn't surprising as they are genuinely the best tournament host for QL.

tl;dr - cry.

gtv was laggy occasionally. streams are ALWAYS laggy, reported them like 20 times already.

muting stream mutes quake sounds also, that is exactly the opposite of what I want.

Always? No matter the quality? If so, I'd recommend you to try livestreamer. I have problems with the flash player too (not a bandwidth problem) and this fixes everything for me.

ill try, thx.
and yes, twitchtv is always laggy for me. i dont want to watch pixel-war :\

It has been requested earlier. Years ago. Did not lead to positive results. It's not possible iirc due to the new QL protocol or network code or something like that.

It is a pity tho, that it is not doable, since in other games it is.

Honestly this isn't a big deal for me anymore in the twitch era. I've got fast internet and twitch doesn't lag in the us. Also streamers don't use picmip 20 anymore either.

A GTV with integrated shoutcasting was always an interesting idea. It just never happened.

I don't really care how much picmip you prefer. There is no personalization at streams. That sucks. Picmip should be 7 in my books, and I will laugh on anyone who uses less than 5.

gtv should only have integrated shoutcasting, when you are able to turn it off. we don't always need a guy who speaks all the fucking time.

yeah, it's not a big deal, we all can live without gtv. hell, we can live without having any pleasure in our lives...

btw, I have ultra-fast iternet connection also, twitch has nothing to do with your inet conex btw.

pretty sure rapha, cypher and evil uses picmip <5

Then he probably laughs at them.

well then im gonna laugh at bill gates because he got glasses

We can laugh at op for laughing at them too.

juked, i wasnt talking about business people!!

Ok, I'll correct myself: 4 or 3 is still ok. 0 is NOT, and you should know that, unless you have no idea what quake is.

by the way:
cypher: seta r_picmip "7"
evil: seta r_picmip "5"
rapha: seta r_picmip "4"

who's laughing now? I don't know why people on ESR always argue with me, but they should learn that they shouldn't. gg.

cyphers latest cfg on stream was picmip 4 on vertexlighting

4 or 3 is still ok. 0 is NOT
4 or 3 is still ok. 0 is NOT
4 or 3 is still ok. 0 is NOT
4 or 3 is still ok. 0 is NOT

I don't know why people on ESR always argue with me, but they should learn that they shouldn't. gg.
I don't know why people on ESR always argue with me, but they should learn that they shouldn't. gg.
I don't know why people on ESR always argue with me, but they should learn that they shouldn't. gg.

u understand me now?

1. I don't really care how much picmip you prefer. There is no personalization at streams. That sucks. Picmip should be 7 in my books, and I will laugh on anyone who uses less than 5. <- your words, elaboration in point #3

2. you got yur facts wrong, i corrected u.

3. you're agreeing with me that a value of picmip under 5 (as long as it isnt 0-2) is acceptable, so i dont see how im losing this one.

wrong. I corrected you.

your "facts": "pretty sure rapha, cypher and evil uses picmip <5"

this is how you lose:

"cypher: seta r_picmip "7"
evil: seta r_picmip "5"
rapha: seta r_picmip "4"

and this still has nothing to do with how much picmip a person want to see in stream. some like it at 5, some at 7. no choice if you see stream, free choice if you watch gtv. simple as that.

so then this is kinda redundant innit

tr00!

so im kinda curious now, what made you change your mind about the picmip 5 thingy? it seems very much out of the blue, since what i said had absolutely no meaning to you. i cant possible imagine what changed during those minutes between my messages that made you change your mind!!

I haven't changed my mind. I still think using less picmip than 5 is ridiculous. What came in my mind is that some people like invert mouse for example, so I can't really blame them for it. picmip 5 should be more basic than invert mouse btw. Rapha is the only exception among the pro players.

wait, so now a value of <5 is ridiculous AGAIN? you made such a big point of declaring it okay, now its ridiculous? boy, i dont really understand whats going on here

tbh i dont see the point in decreasing the value from 5.

http://i.imgur.com/M0ktc0q.gif

rapha played with picmip 0 at Dreamhack two years ago.

downloaded 4 different rapha configs and they were all set to 4 so I don't care what visions you're imagining.

and this STILL doesn't matter, what matters is, we do not have any customization at streams. you like picmip 0 or not.

nobody needs GTV.

thanks for your constructing comment.
by the way, more than 123 people voted stating that they need gtv, if you haven't noticed.

http://strawpoll.me/1263537/r

dumbfuck.

"more than 123" he says.. exactly 121 the link provided says. i iz confused D:

yes and the result of the poll in the official quake forum is just the other way round.

There are like 7 total votes. Get lost, boy.

Housework for you too: Google the word "representative research".

FYI I am studying Statistics, so I know about "representative". Trust me.

And your vote has not more than 201 participants. That is also hardly representative at all given the Quake Populaton.

What's your point?

You are talking about two different things, man.

I do NOT care about newcomers who just installed the game and play ca/ffa etc. that is NOT our target, because they would not watch ctf final.

You should study harder if you think 7 votes are more representative than 130. That is my point.

Neither number is representative given the amount of quake players.

If your target are die hard gamers, of which there are only a few, then tell me what the incentive of anybody at id would be of implementing GTV?

because those are the players who acutally PAY for premium and pro memberships they get revenue from??

I pay for pro and I don't want GTV. What now? You're statement is a mere speculation.

No, it isn't. You asked "why should id pay attention to die hard gamers?". And that is the answer for that question. Because they are the ones who actually pay for premium.

Let's say you are a company and you want to keep everyone satisfied. You would only care about big publicity, and you would betray your clients, who actually pay you? Yes??

Source?

everybody on tdmpickup/ctfpickup has premium. if i wouldn't want to play there, I wouldn't pay for quake. there are public ctf servers too. how many ffa players do you think pay for premium?

that's my source right there, but if you're really interested, ask id.

There is probably a higher proportion of subscribers in the "die-hard" community, but a high proportion of a very low proportion isn't that interesting from a business point of view. It's better to get 5% of 99% than 50% of 1%.

#1 None of the twitch streams is lagging for me. ever. and I don't even live in the US. Who says we have to stream over twitch? This is at best an argument against twitch, but not FOR GTV.

#2 Streamer's configs are mostly tuned to look nice and yet provide a view of the game where you can see everything. It is a compromise and as such not perfect. But the point of a stream is not to make a personalized viewing experience for you, but to provide a TV-like live event with commenting. In that sense it does the job.

#3 See #2. If you want to have your own viewing experience and only want the in game sounds, why can't you watch the Demos afterwards? Just don't look up the score before you watched the demos and you're good to go. Streams are meant to provide a _casual_ viewing experience. If you really want to learn about what the player is doing and analyze the game, there is no point in watching it LIVE anyway. Just watch in Wolfcam and you can even pause the demo or rewind to get a better grip of what's happening. Makes much more sense.

#4 I agree that this is a problem with Teamgames. However, if you watch it yourself on GTV, but you can control the POV, it is just as likely that you are going to miss a good frag or a quad run.

Like you said: "That is why I'd rather watch a demo, but spoilers may kill my fun. My config, my rules, my choice."

Why don't you just stay away from spoilers? Seems easier to me than implementing GTV into the game.

#1 you are lucky. there are many users here who also said that twitch is lagging. you can be sure that I'm not alone with this problem.

#2 the word what is the most important here is: mostly. You can say picmip 5 is best for MOST users. What about users who wants to see picmip 10? You don't care? Really nice... (not). Have you seen any other stream besides twitch? Russian, polish, etc...they ALL look different. Not perfect? Why dont you want it to be perfect? I really dont understand. For me experience is much bigger if its my own cfg. Why would I wait till there are demos?????? I get the idea of your last sentence though. I still don't understand why are you so against gtv.

#3 I get the idea, but I don't need to analyze anything. I jsut want to watch the guy who I think is the best.

reply to your last sentence: believe me , I tried. but most of the time spoilers came. it is certainly not easier.

#1 as I said this is not a PRO GTV argument. More like a CONTRA Twitch one. There are other better streaming alternatives probably.

#2 Well for me the experience is much nicer with picmip 0 and post processing enabled. The idea is to have it like a sports match on TV or something like that. A professional, clean experience for casual and serious gamers/viewers alike. In that it is a compromise and that's why it can't fulfill everybody's needs.

#3 Well your argument was that analyzing the moves is why you need POV-only.

Yeah I'm sorry for you, but there is no point inventing GTV again, just because a minority of people prefers it the way you do.

#1: while streams are laggy, gtv is not. that is why i think this has something to do with gtv.

#2 key word again: for you. For me it isn't. What about my opinion? In gtv you can watch it as you wish, there is no-one to tell you what to do. Unless when watching stream. Why are you afraid of having gtv with streams in the same time?? I said many times before, and it is even in the starting post of the thread. I want streams WITH gtv, not only gtv.

#3 not at all. for some people it could be. for me, "I jsut want to watch the guy who I think is the best."

Your sorry is not enough. I pay for this SHIT (I'm not sure this will be permanent after all this) and I expect compensation.

#1 not all streams are laggy. just twitch. please read my comments before replying.

#2 it is a matter of opinion, right. but the majority wins. and i doubt the majority has your opinion.

#3 before you said something different.

you get servers for your money. I pay as well. I don't want my money wasted on GTV and put into other stuff.

In the end his request is quite selfish. He wants id to spend weeks to months of developing time just to deal with his issue, that is he cannot watch streams because he has a poor internet connection.

If he were to put all the effort he put into this thread into getting a better connection instead then the issue would be solved already. Furthermore, he still doesn't realize that even an officially integrated GTV does not ensure faceit, dreamhack, 125fps, etc. will broadcast games, which most probably they won't because it means losing viewers for their streams, where the revenue comes from

Plus he can't be more than 16. C'mon it's obvious.

"btw, I have ultra-fast iternet connection also, twitch has nothing to do with your inet conex btw."

those are my words. can you even read, mate?

almost 130 people are with me. how dare you to call my action selfish? learn to read, then try to talk about my age, kiddo.

Your internet connection problem is on your end. That's not twitch's fault.

It's pretty easy to get 130 people to click that....considering you pretty much rigged the poll.

Just keep making speculations like that. You know, not everybody has the thinking of you.

First you say only 3 people will vote. Then, when I'm proving you wrong you keep coming with speculations like that, instead of understanding my, and the community's needs. Very nice jobb, asshole.

It was like that before you started promoting it (to people you know).

Anyway gtv is not going to happen, ever, and fragtv will continue to be never used, ever.

You call IRC the people I know??? What are you talking about?

Gonna prove you wrong. Again.

plz...gtv>stream, faceit

first: fuck you too. second, if you havent notices, I started another poll at quakelive.com, which has exactly 3 votes for gtv.

121+3 is more than 123.

are you still confused? dumbfuck.

What if the same people voted on strawpoll and quakelive.com :D

troll :D what if i know quakers IRL who didn't vote yet but wants gtv back?

What if this just won't happen and even if it did, the 100 people voting probably wouldn't use it.

too much what if. give it up, boys.

maybe you could get more people to support your cause if you stopped insulting everybody who has a different opinion.

70% of comments here are useless, negative and spiteful. towards me and my opinion. On the other hand, I accept someone else's opinion.

See:

"Comment #231 @ 15:13 CET, 10 March 2014 >>
(Link, Edit, Delete, Reply)
By Hungary s7ry - Reply to #226
That is your personal opinion, which I do respect. What about my opinion? What about the opinion of others (which is the same opinion as mine...we are many)? Fuck it? Nobody cares? "

When you write "Fuck you, too" and "dumbfuck", you actually believe you sound accepting??

People's comments are not negative despite your opinion, but despite the idea of having GTV back. Which is, as a matter of fact, complete bollocks in most people's opinions.

Man, do you even read what they're saying? I stated its more than 123 votes. This little piece of shit (I have to call him like that, I can't stand ill will) tried to make me look like a fool. If you're trying to do that, don't be surprised if I bite your head off.

on the second edit: yeah, you're definetely not reading what they are writing to me.

As I said before, if you're as aggressive and can't handle trolls, your cause will most likely fail just because of your attitude.

I'll just stop commenting then...

The idea behind picmip 0 streams is so that people who don't know the game don't go "my god, this game looks like shit". Yes, artifacts occur on streams, but most of the top-viewed streams are pushing a high bitrate that reduces artifacts. It's a matter of getting new people not to be turned off by "ugly" graphics.

That's the reasoning behind it.

Don't start arguing with me about picmip now, that's just the way it is. Things will never be the same. Aww yeah, that's just the way it is.

Jesus. You really think people are watching quake because the graphics are good? They are terrible, picmip 0 or 10 doesn't matter. But I get the idea. Imo people like these shouldn't even watch quake. First thing is to understand the reason of picmip 5. If you don't get this, go play wow. or cs. or anything else but competitive game.

So, you don't want new people to get into FPS. Which means, you don't want sponsors to support Quake. Which means you don't want tournaments to happen.

Which ultimately means you won't have anything to watch on your precious GTV.

Are you stupid?

where are the sponsors now, tell me? where are tournaments now?

That is not the question. Google might help with that tho.

Tournament sponsors: ZOWIE, Intel, Faceit (so Razer), team one.soldier, maybe Dreamhack

Player Sponsors: sk-gaming, ESC.icybox(rip k1llsen), Point Gaming, Titan Esports, Infiplay.ru, team one.soldier, maybe Bravado Gaming

I wonder why how many people have troubles understanding this simple concept.

Wow you are a dick. ignored.

I would too but then I'd have nothing to be mad about :(

who the fuck are you? who the fuck cares?

Gtv kills streams & show.
Commentators are talking crap but sometimes it funny)) (chat is same thing)
i dont care about stream cfg.
I want more mvd streams and vods

That is the problem right there. The gameplay itself is the show and NOT the streamers. That is your personal opinion, which I do respect. What about my opinion? What about the opinion of others (which is the same opinion as mine...we are many)? Fuck it? Nobody cares?

But let's stay at your opinion:

Gtv kill streams = only a few would watch stream if there was gtv = gtv>streams. Right? Then why the bloody hell we don't need gtv??!!?!

"I want more mvd streams and vods"

It is very clear to see that what we want and what we get are two different things. If there will be no gtv, then there won't be any change regarding MVD. Welcome to my world. It's a shame id doesn't have resources. :(

only a few would watch stream if there was gtv = gtv>streams. Right? Then why the bloody hell we don't need gtv??!!?!

I'm currently working on setting up fragTV and all that stuff but your approach is so very very wrong :/

Can't you see that it is NOT my damn approach??? He said these words, not me.

your approach is so very very wrong :/

That was obvious from #2, where instead of saying something more reasonable like "oh, I didn't know someone had made that - thanks for the link! How about we try and get that finished off?" or "I tried that and it was a bit too buggy for me - eg, if you reconnect to a server it goes a bit wacky. Any programmers able to fix that - I'm up for setting up a server and doing some testing if you want", he just criticized you.

We dont need to split community again) We have too few.
Ordinary people today watch streams not gtv, they use facebook not MySpace.
if game is not at first page. nobody will knows about this game. so +gtv -some peoples on streams.
stream is better for newcomers, they can learn a lot
streams are promoting game (quake)
stream is good for buisness (advertisement) $$$$$ !
You cant hear how player roaring :D on gtv
You cant see how player move mouse

"We have too few."

some guy said earlier that there is 20.000 active quake players. (:DDDDDD) so we are not few. *sarcasm off*

again: I didn't say I dont want streams. i want gtv too

is business good now? streams are there since like 5 years now.

It is very clear to see that what we want and what we get are two different things

nope, they are not, its just your delusional wishes.

http://strawpoll.me/1263537/r

results of your own pool strongly suggest only esr oldschool q3 bestestes game wankers want gtv.

You are lucky you are dealing with a "for profit" company s7ry! All you need to do is show them how it would be financially beneficial to them to implement "gtv" and it should get done!

"all I have to do" :DDD

it wouldn't. i don't care about money. they should not focus on money only by the way. that is why most people fail in life. you have to give, if you can.

a business company should not focus on money only

This is just, I mean, I can't even... does this guy live in the same world as the rest of us?

He thinks and writes like kids do.

Okay then, grown-ups. Let's hear your oppositions to this sentence:

"a business company should not focus on money only"

go ahead, make me laugh!

The sole purpose of companies is to make money, short and long term. Actually doing the opposite on purpose is illegal on several grounds.

Correct. Now explain me, how do you expect to earn money when you don't care about the requests of your clients?

Look at my example: i request gtv. lets say i request some more, like add /kill command. lets say i am a client and i pay for a service. lets say changes never happen. That will lead me to not paying anymore for the service, because its not good enough anymore. what will happen? easy = this "for-profit" organization will lose money.

It's such basic logic and commented so many times I shouldn't waste my time to waste time with that, so I won't.

It's only profitable to hear the request if it brings more than it costs though. How many people do you think would subscribe (or not unsubscribe) if they added GTV? How much do you think it would cost to add it?

BTW, /kill is there already.

I request vehicles.
getting 100 votes on strawpoll will surely change their mind.

sorry I only vote for hats

or ponies

or ponies with hats.
let's make this happen: http://strawpoll.me/1299144

What will then?

Why do we even have polls here on ESR, if even 135 (not 100, like u mentioned, do not underestimate pls) players's opinion doesn't matter? It's useless.

The general premise of GTV is a step back in terms of game advancement and promotion, no self-respecting developer would create a tool that brings the game to a lesser state (in before accusations how QL is worse than Q3)

Don't worry, fragTV will be patched up, I'm thinking about creating a bundle and possibly a simple .exe that would install wolfcam/fragtv in approrpiate folders, so all you have to do is DL the client and connect to a streamer.

are ql staff supposed to be self-respecting after retracting their whole business model in order to make ends meet? im just curious how you made that connection

No it would be much better to not implement a business system and drop the whole thing so you would finally shut the fuck up.

maybe purse snatchers are also self-respecting people? they too have to make ends meet. maybe the self-respecting purse snatcher was dedicated business person until his plan failed

I've made a start on doing that - It's really not difficult to package it up.

I still don't understand why would this tool bring the game to a lesser state, nobody is forced to watch gtv. You guys say that noobs need stream badly. You think they would stop watching stream because there is gtv? They wouldn't even know about it possibly... So what are we afraid of?

I'm saying a big Thank You in the name of 136+ people (who voted yes) for your efforts. If I can help somehow, let me know. .exe would be very very nice. Hope you can get some help on the way...

You dont care about money? Then you could pay someone to code this!

I think you misunderstood me. with "you have to give if you can" i don't necessarily thought about money.

What I tried to explain to you is that they should not ONLY think about money. This is not a thing you can ear revenue with, this is for your fans, your users, or your clients if you like. It's about us. About doing us a favor.

“We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give.”

Maybe they should hire coders. I don't have extra money to give. If I had, I would. Until then I give what I can (in this case advertisement, attention, and representative research.).

Hope this will give you a better understanding of my motives. This is not about becoming rich.

As much as it would be a "nice feature" I am not sure I would rather see this than X other improvements (that also most likely will not happen). Implementing this would most likely not be worth it to them financially and any effort spent on this could be better spent on a number of other things such as match making or lets say a system that temp-bans quitters in team games (such as the one in dota2). These things would most likely make the gaming experience much better for everybody and also potentially bring in "more money" (more fun, more popular -> more people play/keep on playing).

The GTV thing would not bring in any extra income.

I am assuming the games you would like to watch like this are games like faceit finals/dreamhack finals/quakecon finals. This is nice and all but the stream creates the tournament to a large degree and not the other way around. The sponsors need exposure etc and with GTV the games you would want to watch like this most likely would not exist to begin with, a nice catch 22. I am simply assuming you dont watch to watch two 1400 elo players on gtv, that it would be about the big tournaments.

So as much as most people obviously would not mind if this feature was implemented there are more pressing matters for syncerror et al to spend their time on and it could also be detrimental to the few tournaments that are left.

I was trying yesterday to watch some "thror" games, no matter what I do, stream was lagging even on medium quality.

Bring back fucking GTV!!!!

FragTV is in working condition, so streamers could use it in addition to stream and it would work. Now if they wanna do it is another question...

Errm, why does the streamer even need to use/approve this? Couldn't just a random guy join the server in question, turn the FragTV on and post the ip and stuff? Everybody has the server passwords anyway, ( that's the impression I get when I watch zLive/faceit, always tons of people in spec) so why not?

Ye , it can be done. I have done some FragTV streaming myself, since my bandwith is not so good to stream standard video.

However, nobody has asked to watch it in any way. I had one or two guy interested to watch it. If you interested in it a bit more, join #fragtv @ quakenet.

what a surprise

Shame though. As for me, I would choose it over stream any day of the week. Shitty, laggy streams are not my cup of tea.