MAJOR THIS ASAP COME ON

what is 2:30pm anyway ?

please major this for elitism and drama. ty for reading.

bring on the flame xD

hm i feel bad for giving them views for the stream, but then again i just wanna what's this about...

easy money <3

Anything changed on this game since beta? Still 2 guns? Still boring?

quake is getting some accidental publicity as these commentators keep on mentioning it.

Too bad no one is watching the stream, except curious quakers.

Did try to see the stream in a non-judgmental way but the elite mode is very boring to watch, maybe some other game mode is more fun from a viewers perspective. Could not watch for too long.

cmon the nuggets!
At least the money is well spent then :)

nice amount of viewers 8----D

wait wait wait... do i get this right? you are spawned with 2 weapons, a pink my little pony ball they call 'rockets' and some zip-zoppity-bop laser?

and they just shoot each other round after round? like seems even less strategic than CA in ql.... is this for real?

3 defends, 1 attacks. Defenders have rockets, the attacker has a rg.

edit. not sure if bashing sm or just a genuine question.

yaaawwn... sorry, i almost fell asleep just by reading that. what a shlock

good money!

1.4k just before the finals?

Even QL can pull these numbers.

quake had much better numbers at dreamhack... and even the sunday FACEIT's come close to the numbers...

seriously i am watching the stream and I must say shootmania did an exceptional job at making an fps as boring as it can be... it's like the nickleback of fps

yesterday's faceit had more. russian stream was not only on own3d, it was on goodgame.ru too with smooth hd stream to ~500 viewers.

IPL5 interview with fnatic.strenx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKo3CWCMdfA&feature=youtu.be

Easy win apparently for colwn, they haven't dropped a map all tournament.

well, they have against sk (rapha's team). fnatic (strenx's team) only lost 3 maps during the entire competition.

Then the commentators have misinformed me!

They didn't seem to be very well informed generally, although I found them to be surprisingly sympathetic. Except the unnecessary "wohooo!" after the every hit.

Overall I found the matches to be rather boring to watch. The only moments that I can remember was strenx hiding behind corners and these were the most exciting things that happened.

After watching other big tournaments in QL or sometimes SC2, I really desire to play these games immediately.
With Shootmania? Not even once. :(

trolled gillz

LMFAO @ STRENX

He moves from Quake to shitmania to win and STILL FUCKING LOSES AT A NO BRAIN GAME

haha

he's winning money, isn't that what he's aiming for?

money as in minimum wage shit kicker salary? :P

travelling the world and earning some for playing a game isn't all that bad

No wonder you didnt performed at dreamhack (or was it adroits?), for you its about travelling and playing games, but you can be sure strenx wants to win a major lan.

yea, he does, but he's not doing bad, is he? he's still gonna be the happiest guy in the world after these lans, he just wants to achieve more and that's what i like about him.
he won't settle for the 2nd place, he keeps wanting to win, and he won't stop ever

ye i was troling obv haha when ur doing that it shouldnt be for the money should be the lifestyle haha

I gave it a shot and watched some matches, mainly to see Rapha, Strenx etc. play. And god is it BORING.

Every map looks the same, only 2 weapons and they even dumbed down the health and armor system it seems. 3 hits and you're dead. Stand on the goal to win. Woohoo!

Now what I don't get is, if Ubisoft can throw out money for this crappy cookie cutter FPS, then why can't ID/Bethesda do the same?

If they wanted to, they could throw in some tournament money to attract new players, change their business model to something similar to say League of Legends, which is proven to work and roll all over ShootMania.

People have mentioned time and time again that Quake is interesting to watch, even when they don't play it.

SM is boring to watch, even when I put my Quake goggles off.

i am outraged by "if Ubisoft can throw out money for this crappy cookie cutter FPS, then why can't ID/Bethesda do the same?"!

quake is not crappy cookie cutter fps! :))

id don't throw out money, they shoot it toward the moon!!

u forget 3D Glasses/Helmet/Big Fucking 4kg thing on your head

That's actually brilliant stuff by the big C, this will most probably make id a lot of money and might also bring the fps genre a lot forward. Carmack is still the pioneer of fps even today

where's the vod of the final??

so did colwn win?

edit: Ye, they did, should be good for faceit \o/

so faceit = stermy?

Involved at least and if I remember the stream correctly, its in italy and stermy is walking around when they cast, so.. : )

Not alone, but definitely play a major role in the team.

watched the final. the game at the highest level is still very dull and I can't help, but think that Nadeo is gonna be disappointed about the viewer numbers. oh yeah and casters were pretty bad as well 'pew pew he shot a lazer from 20 meters right into opponents face. woooooooooooooow!'.
also: Strenx, Stermy and Winz were missing surprising amounts of 'rails' which they would easily hit in Quake. I wonder if that's a config issue and am curious how much of a difference there is between pro's screen and what we see on the stream.

I saw one game yesterday and though casters were best part of the show, considering that there is barely anything to be cast regarding what is happening ingame.

I'd like to see them casting some Quake event, quite entertaining.

All true but what else should casters say if its all about inst rail and a lazer like rl. If nothing else happens, you cant comment anything. :D

yeah i was actually thinking about that. there was so little happening that they had to constantly repeat: "yup, dude is attacking now. yeah... so... you know he was a real beast in the previous matches! right? yeah. real beast. beast, beast, beast. OMG LAZER TO DA FACE.'

Rapha said in an interview that the hitbox is really small or something like that, so it's easy to miss.That's one thing that he wanted to have changed.

how they can pay 100k for a game that no one plays.

Its called investment, theyre promoting it so when it gets out of beta it already is known etc.

Same way with all the other shitgames with lots of money in them over the last few years, ignorant investment.

can anyone tell me where players like Lekaim and JiePie come from (and I know it's holland, I'm asking 'which game' :p)

casters said JiePie played QL, dont know about Lekaim.

About JiePie you can see hes kindof overclocked human, very skinny, quick reflexes, eyes very open, looks like some kind of freak but has lots of potential to play fps games.

JiePie played some QL for sure. He even played some dreamhack byoc tournament if I'm not mistaken.

They come from UT

JiePie was the best UT3 player with hypno I guess, but with another nickname, that's why you guys don't know him. I don't remember his old nickname thought.

Don't rly know about LeKaiM

JiePie comes from ut3 and his nickname was darkdude. He was pretty good but he certainty wasn't "the best ut3 player with hypno" by any means.

the 'best ut3' player would prolly be lauke (at least he was the guy who did all shootouts in ut3 and a lot of it's promotion in nl).
Which is someone else than JiePie ;)

it wouldn't be lauke at all he hardly played ut3. Hypno was the best simply because he won the most.

Hypno was already mentioned as being the best...
I just know that in the dutch scene lauke did quite a lot of shootouts etc. So I figured he would be good at it as well ;)

I cba to follow any scenes other than quake tbh... and I don't even do a great job following that hehe

alright :P i didn't know lauke did any shootouts. there was only like 3 lans/major tournaments for ut3 and hypno won them all. gohlink and killu came second in two lans to hypno. majo is another guy who was really good online. those were the 4 best guys in ut3 that I played with.

as kronic said, his nick before was DaRk_DuDe, he was very good in the very end of UT3, but at that time there were no serious competitions anymore, probably if he appeared earlier he would have placed top3 in the competitions there were for the game (same for kronic and ricot). Him, kronic and ricot were the best players of the game in the very end of it. While the game was more active I agree with kronic, killu, gohlink and probably also majo were the strongest players around.

not really sure... I know I beat them in QL and played (both won and lost) to them in ut2k4 instagib.

I asked a similar question a week ago... seems like nobody really knows hehe.

It's fitting that this event would be held at the Cosmopolitan.

Wait so SK beats COLWN in the groups, but loses 3-0 to fnatic, who then loses 3-0 to COLWN.

LOLWHAT.

Looked to me like colwn wasn't trying their hardest during the sk match.
A few other people on the stream thought so as well.

They already had first place in the group secured and clearly weren't trying. If I was admin of the event I would have seriously considered disqualifying them because to me it looked like there were trying to lose on purpose quite obviously (to let raphas team pass). Then again I haven't played much sm so I might be wrong.

That's pretty fucked up for the other team in that group that lost to COLWN but DID beat SK. =/

in football they play with shit (B) team all the time when they secured first place before groupstage ends. so what?? I obviously wont take it as srs if the game doesnt matter.

This isn't football, you're not saving players from injuries. Also there is a difference between not taking it srsly and losing on purpose.

i was thinking exactly the same =)

Me too. Based on what rule would you disqualify them anway? =)

You are wrong. We were quite pissed off after that game to be honest.

We played pretty bad, they probably played their best and have been (imo) quite fortunate in many situations. All that combined made us lose.
Also, keep in mind you have nothing to fall back on if your aim is just off. You can't rely on items control, strategies or positioning. If your rails don't connect (and it's harder to hit than in Quake) then you are fucked.

In no way did we throw that game intentionally as it goes against my principles. What would have been the purpose anyway? Give fnatic an easier semi? It doesn't really make any sense. If anything we would have wanted quite the opposite.

We were quite pissed off after that game to be honest.

(...)
Also, keep in mind you have nothing to fall back on if your aim is just off.

I'm curious: Were you pissed off that your aim was off? Or were you pissed off that you lost (just) because your aim was (slightly) off?

A little of both I guess. Does it matter?

Nothing to fall back on if your aim is off? What an amazingly strategic game Shootmania is!

*stirring pot*
Nah winz, letting each guy in SK get an extra $1k is cool. Did they offer to give you guys an extra $500 each afterwards?

Just a very very very funny and entertaining situation hahaha.

Hello everyone,

I'm on of the casters from the event (the hispanic/loud guy) and even if a majority of the comments are negative I still respect those opinions because that will help us put on a better show and help me become a better caster.

Besides the obvious "don't use this game" etc. What can we do on the production side to make this a better event?

This is a community that I am largely unfamilar with due to my background and if it wasn't for Slasher connecting me with all of these different sites I would have never known about it. I am the kind of person who likes to be heavily involved with the communities I support and I am looking at this no different.

Even if you didn't enjoy my casting (which is perfectly fine) I do want to thank you for at least tuning in briefly to watch the show as our team really worked hard to put this one together.

Thanks! ^.^

the flame has nothing to do with the event, all the flame is about the game itself ;o

first order of business is to acknowledge that every fps game sucks compared to quakelive. Everyone here knows this, and it's sort of a curse

I watched parts of all three days and you're broadcasting was easily the most entertaining thing that I saw.
I'd love for you to broadcast quake or the next big fast fps game.

Joshy was good but seemed lethargic during the last day.
Give him a redbull when he starts looking tired.

Keep up the good work, bro.

red bull very bad advice, mainly for the liver.

If he wants real energy, fresh citric fruits with loads of vitamins and minerals, some nutrient rich foods like meat, eggs or nuts, sea or himalaytan salt for more minerals, raw and cooked vegetables. When needed for that extra time some fresh coffee but never abusing.

Naturals things bros, dont buy cancer please, quakers are a rare breed we have to take care of ourselves.

I'll take a six-pack of rebull.

Youre entitled to consume whatever shit you want, i was just being sure you take an informed decision.

You don't know what you're talking about.

read and learn illiterate anonymous coward:

Caffeine: central nervous system (CNS) stimulant; adverse effects: nervousness, anxiety, insomnia, tachycardia, palpitations, altered consciousness, paralysis, hallucinations, seizures, etc.
(Energy drinks contain three times the amount of caffeine than cola drinks, and energy "shots" can contain up to five times the amount).

Taurine: Amino acid found in the CNS. Originally found in the bile of bulls and is now synthetically mass produced, even though it is produced naturally in the body. Possible adverse effects: hypertension, seizures, stroke, and death (Group III, 2009).

Guarana: Plant that contains large amounts of caffeine. Adverse effects: restlessness, insomnia, increased heart rate, hypertension, tremors, headache, etc. Each gram of guarana contains between 40-80 mg of caffeine; manufactures are not mandated to include this information on their labels, therefore, each serving size may contain significantly higher, dangerous amounts of caffeine than listed.

L-Carnitine: Amino acid; adverse effects: nausea/vomiting, seizures, abdominal pain, etc.

Ginseng: East Asian herb; adverse effects: headache, hypertension, insomnia, irritability, vertigo, etc.

Yohimbine: Plant-based herbal supplement; adverse effects: hypertension, tachycardia and death.

Megadose of B Vitamins: 2,000 percent B6, 8,333 percent B12. Although these B vitamins are water soluble, increased water intake should also occur when consuming such high doses. Vitamin B toxicity can occur with side effects.

*Sodium benzoate. Last year a study conducted by an expert in molecular biology and biotechnology linked the common energy drink preservative sodium benzoate to cell damage and an increase in the production of free radicals. Even more concerning, sodium benzoate in combination with vitamin C causes the potent carcinogen benzene.

*Phenylalanine. Though an essential amino acid, phenylalanine is also a neurotoxin and is one of the three main ingredients which make up aspartame. Too much can excite the neurons in the brain to the point of cellular death.

*Ephedra. Ephedra has been described as a drug that increases heart rate and blood pressure at low doses and causes strokes, seizures, and possibly even death at high doses.

wait, wait, we all knows that energy drinks aren't like fruit juices, but to put out this raw datas is a little terroristic; take caffein for example: the amount of caffein contained in a red bull can (standard one) is equivalent to the amount of caffein contained in an espresso coffee; so to drink a red bull can is like to drink a coffee, regarding caffein; afaik, the discouraged daily intake of caffein is around 6 coffee (espressos ones ), so like 6 cans; THIS ONLY REGARDING CAFFEIN, OF COURSE; i would strongly disagree if someone would drink 6 cans of energy drink in a day, this is madness, due to the others substances and their sinergic effect;
The point is: to say that caffein CAN KILL is just terrorism, because it's like to say a coffee can kill; everything can kill, even the sugar, it all depends on the dosage; you can even drink pure poison, if te amount is near to irrelevant;
additionally, afaik, not all the energy drinks contains all of the ingredients you have mentioned; red bull, for example, should contain only caffein, taurine, and b vitamins, with sugar and artificial colorants; this to say that single ingredients may not be contained or not be so dangerous as it seems only reading the extra-dosages collateral effects; or substances like coke, coffee, and aspirins should be banned.

>I'll take a six-pack of rebull.

>You don't know what you're talking about

He wanted a six-pack of redbull, not 1 can, then he said i had no idea what i was talking about, so i showed him some information about common ingredients in "energy" drinks. Which in fact arent energy drinks but more energy drainers, overclocking your system to consume your stored energy more quickly. Which if abused can lead to many problems like adrenals exhaustion, you know you have it when even driking energy drinks or coffee you get no rush. A healthy person with one small cup of strong coffee will have a very good rush, and coffee also has antioxidants flavonoids etc, which in part counters the adverse effects. Energy drinks lack antioxidants, they just put you in "fight or flight" mode.

ok, i didn't understand the way it was meant;

omg im drinking coke omg cancer in a bottle

so what is your background?

Hi man, you really enhaced the ipl5 shootmania experience with your casting, you could see some Faceit/DreamHack/Quakecon vods and cast NA quake events in some spare time, theres a shortage of casters on those latitudes and more games means more experience.

Good casting, meh game.

You were really great Goldenboy, happy and enthusiastic and basically leading the commentary. Joshy seemed like a co-casting xD

As for the stream, something I was wondering is why doesn't the Defender's POV ever get viewed? Is it not programmed into the game yet? Also a bracket for the event was hard to find and when it was found the information was wrong, perhaps a bracket on the stream could come up between maps or matches.

I noticed you had rebroadcasts all day but everyone thought it was live and made fun for the lack of viewers, it should have the text rebroadcast somewhere there.

Anyway this is all I can think for now.

Because the only thing less interesting than an attacker going "IMMA FIRIN' MA LASAAAAH" is a defender standing behind a goalpost for 20 seconds.

We like to show the attacker because they are driving the action BUT we didn't show the defenders because we had some technical issues that had the players hear the casters and we didn't want to give defensive positions away. We had to have some clever wording which led to some repetition which we will address moving forward.

As for the rebroadcasts we had to do everything remotely so the graphics were not available but they should be now.

I saw the whole cast, you did well with what limited shit you can cast when watching shitmania.

not bad brah, you just need to cast some real games and you can get a fanbase going

other than that, quakers winning a game that has only rockets and rails? THE HELL YOU SAY?

lulz

I wouldn't call those rockets as they don't even do splash damage

those rockets bounce you, like a rocket juggle in quake (same concept)

I had no problem with your casting overall and it's nice of you to ask for feedback.

Sometimes I wish you showed defensers pov but I've watched other SM streams before and they also only showed attackers pov so I cant blame you for that.

But ye other than that it's just the game itself that is a problem =)

Maybe if you had casted a more 'sophisticated' game (like quake...shocker :p) we would have been more critical towards the content of your commentary ;)

Casting was good just show some defender "action" occasionally!

great casting man! enjoyed it all =)

the bashing think is normal tbh.
they did it when CS came out after q2
when q3 came out.
when q4 came out (cause it wasnt q3)
when QLive came out (cause it wasnt q3)

everytime a new game comes out, the people that started playing the game prior to that one, will bash it completely, because most of them don't know any other games and well, some just like to act retarted because of it =)

to all the haters, YEA I LIKE THE CONCEPT OF SHOOTMANIA, YEA I DID PREORDER IT! =P
i think for the casual gamer, the fact that the game is 'easy' is actually a good thing.

"i think for the casual gamer, the fact that the game is 'easy' is actually a good thing. "

ofc it is, but why the fuck is this casual shit game being promoted as eSports ?

i think it can be both..

for the casual gamer is easy to pick up and to understand.
doesn't mean its easy to become really really good, so you'll need to put in a lot of time.

that you call it shit and not esport worthy is your opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that.

i can't stand starcraft or LoL, but hey... its an esport

it is easy to get really good at shootmania though, if you are an average quake player you'll be quite good instantly, since it's pretty much point and click aiming and the movement isn't advanced at all.

good point, you can't understand(neither can i.) starcraft:
cause it's complex, it's advanced, hard to get really really good at, several things to manage etc etc - it's an perfect eSport

I didn't say i don't understand it...
i just don't like those type of games =)

but i think that the things you say apply to a lot of people regarding quake 1vs1 too..

dunno how they compare to the average joe, but i don't know starcraft so i can't judge on that.

oh sorry missread "i cant stand" to "i cant understand" :p

heh ok :P

don't think i would understand it tho ;-)

you aren't the problem.

that shit game you're hosting is.

You've done an amazing job man and I absolutely loved the event.

Ofc you did, you won. ;)

Unrelated.

It was an awesome event because it was held in the same hotel we stayed at, because there were so many kind and understanding people to help us out no matter what our problem was, because it was actually played on lan servers, because they managed to get 120hz monitors (ASUS even had to buy back those monitors from customers it seems), because they turned off the air conditioning on request when we were getting our hands cold, because it wasn't too loud and many more reasons.

It was just awesome because the players' gaming conditions seemed to be one of their main concern, a feeling that I missed since the ESWC editions years ago.

It was for me one of the best and most professional event I ever attended.

sooo... you had ur own personal nigga to get you booze, coke and bitchezz?

That was the mission Winz! We wanted to make sure the players were taken care of and be able to provide a stage to show off your skills!

The only thing I would change would be the headsets since you had to hear the casting.

For those wondering that was why we repeated a lot of things because we couldn't talk about defensive formations or anything that could give the positions of the players away.

We are committed to a fair and enjoyable experience!

Our team couldn't hear the casting at all with our brand new ASUS headsets and their active noise cancelling :P, but I can understand it has probably been an issue for some teams.

wp, colwn looked like a very professional team not only by the way you played but also general attitude. respects.

As I said in some other thread, I though casting was best part of event, really good, considering how boring and dull the game is.

Would like to see you cast Quake.

no you were actually doing your job very well. have a plus.

btw.... just 1 question.
Why is this game still exactly the same as the beta?

I saw the last map being played.... nothing has changed? It's still the same angles, same movement, same fire patterns etc.
Everyone goes to the same possitions as they did in beta... fire at the same times as they did... at the same place they used to...

cause its still beta dumbhead? :>

We didn't want to change much in terms of maps since we committed to them early in the life of the game. Expect some adjustments moving forward that would utilize Beta 2's new features.

u should move on to casting another game imo. barring a miraculous turn around in nadeo's attitude towards the game, it just doesnt seem likely sm will gain a large enough audience to support more events like ipl.

anyway, the casting and the players were the only reasons i watched as many games as i did (i think i watched sk colwn and then the grand final). without the quakers playing in the tournament i doubt anyone here wouldve watched a single game.

I would have because the prizepool was big and I like FPS overall

It's just sad it has to be that game...would have much preferred a CS tourney

cs is almost as boring to me, altho not quite. dunno i just dont find those games very dynamic. the amount of variation in terms of weapon behaviour and other game elements, which imo drives variation in decision making, is just so low compared to something like quake or sc.

cause the skill ceiling was reached month ago?

hmmm, $100k prizepool,

this was taken from shootmaniaesports.com

1. France colwn ($30,000)
2. Netherlands Fnatic ($15,000)
3-4. United States SK Gaming ($8,000)
3-4. United States Planet Xpress ($8,000)
5-6. Canada Epsilon eSports ($5,500)
5-6. Sweden TCM-Gaming ($5,500)
7-8. Canada Spin Move ($4,000)
7-8. United States compLexity ($4,000)

how does this amount to $100k? where'd $20k go? :D

Travelcosts and hotels for teams without sponsors(maybe them with sponsors too)

so basically teams got an all-inclusive? that's nice

I dont know exact details but something like that

The extra amount was included in the travel cost since players won via qualifiers and so on. All the players understood this prior to the event and they were OK with it.

I can understand how people would think we were shafting the players but that wasn't the case at all.

S T E R M Y
T
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M
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Hey guys! I didn't think I would get an influx of questions! Thanks for the kind words and I have no problem with sharing my history so you guys can know a little about myself.

I got my start casting Call of Duty for MLG at the 2011 National Championships and have continued to build my brand in the console gaming scene. I know that sounds o.O to you guys but I never got into casting PC games like Quake and CS because of hardware limitations. I actually will be picking up an Origin PC because of the event and will be looking to casting some QL, TF2, SM and maybe some CS.

I've been a competitor in Halo and CoD for the past 10 years and have always admired games like QL because of the intensity it brings but never got into competing because it was like learning how to ride a bike all over again.

One of my missions in eSports is to be a community voice. I enjoy interacting with everyone and helping the scene grow! FPS games are (in my opinion) the most intense kinds of games to watch and a good caster helps drive that experience!

TL;DR - I was a console dude who likes PC games and will be looking to cast QL, TF2, SM and anything else I can get my hands on! ^.^

golden, you did a great job casting! good to see you do some more pc stuff! =)

This guys a class act I tell ya :) it was a great time, good job to you and joshy!

Do you have a home site or contact info for booking?

If you would like to work together simply tweet me @GoldenboyFTW and I will be sure to respond! :D

From what I saw, you did a good job. In fact, everyone seem doing a good job about Shootmania, with a lot of good perspectives and thinking, and the only problem being the actual game itself.

I can give you my own perspective of this community, which might help understanding some of the critiques you see here.

- People here love fast paced FPS. Almost everyone around here spent countless hours playing whatever version of Quake, Warsow, Xonotic, HL AG, you name it. We learned how to do all sort of movement tricks in the said games, and this took us *years* of gaming. We all had our dose of air rockets, perfect lg tracking, crazy plasma traps etc. And we have watched a decade of pro Quakers doing the most amazing things, often highlighted by insane frag videos. This is what is wired in our brains. This is what sets the bar when it comes to looking at other games.

- As a result, we are horrible elitist, and will bash anything that runs short compare to these games we love (that is usually expressed as generic "Quake"). Even a game like CS – sometimes even UT, ffs - which is far more complex that Shootmania, is bashed around here, mainly because of the movement system, or whatever else is considered inferior to the Quake family.

- The more educated and well behaving individuals will accept the fact you can compete at anything, and that being the world champion in a game (where many people are trying) is actually really hard, regardless of the game. Still, if that particular game does not resonate with what we have learned to appreciate, it will likely be bashed to death, regardless of all the good efforts production-wise.

- To make the equation complete, no one here wants a ‘shootmania’ FPS revolution. What we would like is what we have had in the past or better. More money put into Quake. Maybe a ‘revamped Quake’, with some graphics gimmicks and stuff to look nicer on screen, maybe with a few gameplay tweaks here and there, but Quake. We all know this is very unlikely, but it just so hard to settle for less when you have experienced something great.

Very, very well said.

stermy ftw! miss linkin on colwn but oh well still #1...in your face rapha haha jk wp sk and fnatic as well

WOW rapha is close to making average salary of college graduate this month for the first time in like a year

How much do you value having to spent your best years reading a ton of shit you prolly will never use to end with a paper that says youre good memorizing others work and become indoctrinated?

free science > interest driven and corrupted peer review fiasco

Like one of the master healers of the old and not so old world, cannabis oil, being ilegal. While two poisons like tobacoo and alcohol arent. Youre entitled to become a clone for the system tho.

Made a mistake reading your whole post.
Well played sir.

do you have a problem with everyone's personal choices rofl. If it were for you people shouldn't study and buy food.

problem with people that think different? Im just expresing my opinion about todays "science", i have learnd by reading masters dating to egypt like Tot the father of astrology and alchemy, known as Hermes in greece, or the great Hipocrates "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food" etcetc... when you understand we have been lied to, you become mad. Flouride does a great job at making people more servile, thats why i make my own toothpaste. so again problem?

"Stupid is as stupid does" Forrest Gump

about your troll line "If it were for you people shouldn't study and buy food." Stupid oversimplification. And you have it backwards, you should study ofc and bout food im the one who buy food, thats why i try to show them whats poison.

energy drinks = posion for the mind and body
corrupted academic system = poison for mind and soul

You mean when he gets the money 2 years from now. :)