Logitech has a salmosa alternative in the mini optical =P

i'm actually really satisfied with the salmosa so far.. got it yesterday.

one thing it's got thats superior to the mx300:

the hardware switches to set dpi and rate on the BOTTOM of the mouse. no need for drivers*WEEEEEEE*

i still wanna talk to the logitech chick.

btw. what sensor does mini optical have?

I have the salmosa as well, and it's pretty sweet.

Not sure about the sensor on the mini optical, but it's good enough for every SC pro in the world. =P

i think requirements regarding the shape of the mouse are more important to a sc pro than having easy access to 500Hz/1000Hz

i don't think they even use 500+Hz... on the other hand there''s a picture of Sky on my salmosa packaging :)

Sky plays WC3, though. =P

You could try the korean G1, easily findable on ebay and rather cheap.

the g1 doesn't even do 500hz just 450 :/

OMG 50hz LESS OMG THE DIFFERENCE MUST BE HUUUUUUUUUUGE.
*facepalm.jpg*

yeh, 450 on average cos it's unstable. but keep facepalming...

If by unstable you mean that it goes -15 +15 I'll keep facepalming.
If not, is it still unstable @ 250hz?

i have no idea, where you going with this?

I played with the mx310 both @250 and @450 hz during quite a long time (6 month total ?) and had absolutely no problem.

how is the max tracking speed of the mx310?

a lot better than the wmo @500 hz, but worse than the mx518.
You shouldn't have problems if you don't play with a sensitivity lower than 40cm/360

yeah, but in sc you don't have to make "omg super fast ultra leet flick movement" with your mouse. It's a lot about hotkeys, a lot about the keyboard. Sure you still have to be very precise especially at pro kor lvl, but i would say that overall it's more about med to high sens movements, i mean, you have to be regular, but you'll never do the same sort of movement some "pro" quakers are doing while performing a rj or flick pixel rail
or instant 180° turn.

You most certainly need quick and accurate movements in SC. The reason for the appeal on the salmosa/mini optical is the small form factor for claw grip.

"You most certainly need quick and accurate movements in SC."

Yep, but most of the time it's small/short mouse movements. Especially with the minimap. And I remember a video at youtube with boxer using the arrow keys to move the screen ^^. Anyway he was probably one of the only few pgm using this method, right ? :P

And i doubt that the mini optical could handle ultra low sens perfectly tbh. I'm not saying that it's a bad mouse for sc, but just that it wouldn't work as good for quake. The salmosa is a good mouse for both quake & sc though.

"The reason for the appeal on the salmosa/mini optical is the small form factor for claw grip. "

yep ^^

You don't need ultra low sens for Quake, so that makes no sense.

There are many different things that need to be done in SC, and the arrow keys are for minor camera corrections, likely when doing some base macro or large scale unit movement. For large battles, you need large quick sweeping moves, combined with control group manipulation. For smaller micro battles, spells in general, and minimap interaction, you need short and accurate moves.

"You don't need ultra low sens for Quake, so that makes no sense."

strenx is using something like 35-40cm/360°, some people are using 45-50cm/360°, some people are using
even lower sens (they are rare though), remember the youtube video of the cpm player ? Cypher is using mouseaccel, but still, his sens is lower than most people think. Ofc, it's a lot about preferences, but still, at sc, because of the groups etc, most of the time you "just" have to press 1 or 2 or 9 to be centered to your unit/building instantly. Don't try to convince me that you need 360° mouse movement equivalent or whatever, I won't believe you, since i've watched enough fpvod of pros like bisu, jaedong etc... And that seems also kinda obvious to me tbh.

*edited* *damn my english lol*

Then you've got czm who used like 10-15cm/360 and aim raped 99% of players 99% of the time.

Yep, that's why i said it's a matter of preference.

And it was back in 2004-2006 ?
I'm talking about 2007 to 2010.

And toxjq had even better aim than czm, with low sens (well, maybe low-med).

ZeRo4, too. :D

Heartless, please stop arguing with people when you don't have a clue.

Strenx around 52cm if he uses a 800dpi mouse ( sens 2, accel whatever, mousesenscap 1 which works in both accelstyle making his sens 1 whatever he does. ) After watching recent videos of him playing, I'm pretty sure I'm right.
Cypher = around 25cm if I'm not mistaken ( sens 5 yaw 0.020 or 0.018, 450 dpi. Not sure of the settings but I'm pretty confident in the base cm/360 as I checked his last cfg recently. )

+ it seems that you have discovered that unlike most rts, you also need a keyboard to play starcraft. Great thing for you. Now go on Iccup and try to hit C, we'll see if you don't up your sens to follow the pace of the game with the shitload of microing you have to do.

"Heartless, please stop arguing with people when you don't have a clue."

Rofl "faerie". Pls stfu.

"Strenx around 52cm if he uses a 800dpi mouse ( sens 2, accel whatever, mousesenscap 1 which works in both accelstyle making his sens 1 whatever he does. ) After watching recent videos of him playing, I'm pretty sure I'm right."

I've asked him at irc. So pls stfu. He said something around 3/4, 4/5 qck+ for 360° (30-32cm, which in fact means something more like 35 ^^). And yes he's using 800dpi.
Soz next time try to be 100% sure before saying something :P

"Cypher = around 25cm if I'm not mistaken (sens 5 yaw 0.020 or 0.018, 450 dpi. Not sure of the settings but I'm pretty confident in the base cm/360 as I checked his last cfg recently. )"

Right, soz 25-30cm IS low/verylow sens. Soz i was right. Pls stfu.

"+ it seems that you have discovered that unlike most rts, you also need a keyboardto play starcraft. Great thing for you. Now go on Iccup and try to hit C, we'll see if you don't up your sens to follow the pace of the game with the shitload of microing you have to do. "

Can you stfu one more time pls ? I know and play sc since 2000 (started str with C&C, warcraft 1). On and off though. Played quite a lot of war3 too (and war3 is boring after some years...). I've also watched A LOT of replays/vod/fpvod of pro kor AND "semi-pro" foreigners.
And what are you talking about ? Did i even say that you need low sens to play sc ? Did i ever say that i'm A+ at iccup ? Did i ever say that microing is easy at sc ?

So pls now go kill yourself. Or maybe you're trolling me ? :)

btw, thanks but i already know about the mousesenscap, and i also noticed strenx mistake. I mean, it was sensless to put mousesenscap to 1 with 2x sensitivity and mouseaccel. He also "corrected" this mistake some weeks ago.

If he has corrected anyhting it's by putting his sens to "1". The kid acts even more like a jerk than you do, I wouldn't be surprised if he kept telling bullshit about his sens to make people believe he's the new Toxjq.
I play with 30-32cm/360 ( 3.5/3.25 @ 400dpi ) and he moves his hand waaaaaaaaayyy more than I do. + ultra shitty movements. Tell me how can a pr0pl4y3r constantly bump into walls while playing with 3more cm/360 than I do ?

Cypher : 25-30. Go check his last cfg and calculate his sens yourself. It's closer to 25 than to 30.
+ The fuck world do you live in? It's vq3 in 2010, not cpm in 2003. only 30+ is considered a relatively medium-low sens in the quake scene nowadays, and pretty low should be more around 40 . Ask how many players you want, you'll get an average of 25cm/360 without accel.

Or maybe you're trolling me ? :)
Le no shit maigret. I don't mind people thinking I'm an attention whore because I keep bashing clueless people who act like they're 13 year old teenagers stuck in the middle of the most epic e-penis war ever ( whatever the subject might be ).

"If he has corrected anyhting it's by putting his sens to "1"."

Or maybe he just removed his mousesenscap ?

"The kid acts even more like a jerk than you do, I wouldn't be surprised if he kept telling bullshit about his sens to make people believe he's the new Toxjq."

What's wrong with kids ? Did you watch his recent game against toxic at ztn ? He won and it was close games and they had the same lg overall. And yeah, pls stop being paranoid, I know he's not lying. And it's too easy to always blame people cuz they are lying. I don't want to suck his balls or defend him, but seems like it's you the jerk here, i'm sry.

"I play with 30-32cm/360 ( 3.5/3.25 @ 400dpi ) and he moves his hand waaaaaaaaayyy more than I do. + ultra shitty movements. Tell me how can a pr0pl4y3r constantly bump into walls while playing with 3more cm/360 than I do ?"

Fine, you watched one single shitty lan video of him some months ago and then you know everything. Omg are you retarded ? And I agree that his movements are not the best, but you're really exagerating when you say he's constantly hitting the walls etc. His movements are good enough for his style of play.
He wouldn't be an online hero if his movements were so bad.

"Cypher : 25-30. Go check his last cfg and calculate his sens yourself. It's closer to 25 than to 30.
+ The fuck world do you live in? It's vq3 in 2010, not cpm in 2003. only 30+ is considered a relatively medium-low sens in the quake scene nowadays, and pretty low should be more around 40 . Ask how many players you want, you'll get an average of 25cm/360 without accel."

I said that even with his mouseaccel, cypher's sens was lower than most people think.
So yes, he's playing with low sens, that's obvious, why are you trying to convince me about something
i already know/said ? Pls ? And btw, it's not vq3 in 2010, it's vql in 2010, soz it's more something like cq3 in fact. And i was talking about cpm only for the comparison with SC, and still, there's a lot of similarities between cpm and vq3/vql/cq3, soz...
Do you really think that pretty low sens is around 40cm/360° ? Are you kidding, it's not counter-strike man. 40cm = very low sens, even in 2010. And it will stay as very low sens in 2020. And btw, rapha's sens is pretty high compared to strenx/cypher's. K1llsen's sens aswell etc...

"Le no shit maigret. I don't mind people thinking I'm an attention whore because I keep bashing clueless people who act like they're 13 year old teenagers stuck in the middle of the most epic e-penis war ever ( whatever the subject might be )."

Yeah, yeah, always the same argument. I'm french, i'm 13yo, i'm an e-penis kid. Pls. You're wrong, as simple as that. Just admit it, and everything will be fine.
I hope i'm not hurting your ego too much.

Or maybe he just removed his mousesenscap ?

This sentence prove that you don't know shit about anything you're talking about. Removing it would make his sens become 2 accel 0.1 instead of 1 accel 0.
So he either has very recently drastically changed his mouse settings ( OLOLRZ ISN'T SENSCAP A TOGGLE? O_o ) or
he brought 2 different cfgs at the IEM events. One to be released ( ohh, le mistery du senscap on esr and le ql forum egowhore egowhore ) and one to play with.

It either is even more fishy than what I was thinking about or proves you should stfu.
btw : you'd be surprised at the number of people actually using accel and a sens past 40cm. low accel, medium accel, high accel, whatever the fuck you want accel, vstr, we're not in 2003 anymore. People have lowered their sens in order to abuse hitscans since xerp/antilag came around.

Killsen : logitech drivers, direct input. I don't think he would mention using the drivers @ sens 2 @1000dpi ( if I remember right ) + still use direct input if it didn't have an impact on his ingame sens and accel. + I really have no fucking idea of what kind of results he gets but I kinda like the choppy robotic aim.

I love the way you answer people by making even longer posts ( ya, ya, quotes ).

*facepalm*

Man i give up, i'm tired you're so retarded. I just wanna smash you in the face irl tbh. Really i'm becoming crazy.

You registered at the 8/03/2010 anyway, soz maybe you're a troll or a new comer i don't know. Anyway i'll let you with your ignorance, i'm sry, i'm so sick of this. Think what you want mr "i know everything, i know every single progamerz cfg, i know every single mouseaccel value of every single quake player".

Bye.

last thing, why are you speaking at me like you were teaching me. I mean, 95% of what you are saying i already know... And seriously, what's wrong with you, if i say that strenx sens was something like
35cm/360°, why are you constantly saying that i'm wrong or clueless ? Why should I write 436363 replies to finally convince you ? And yes, he's made some adjustments to his sens "recently". Do i need to write a book so that you finally believe me ? So that you finally realize that you were not entierely right ?

Quake : very low-low to med sens (with some high sens exceptions).
SC : med-high sens.

Logitech mini optical : very nice for sc, not that nice for quake.

SC mouse movements =/= Quake mouse movements.

Discussion closed. Now fuck off.

I enjoy smashing people's faces with my fucking math books and insane knowledge of the universe.
I'm just a random guy who's done a bit of research so that he would understand how the things he likes work and avoid saying stupid things.

hehe

I don't even know what you two were arguing about, you didn't even contradict each other? It this some sort of high-level trolling?

Yeah, metagame you know. But there are 2 easy rules to follow : don't fuck with me and quake sens settings + don't let Heartless enough time to think " oh wait, I'm being a moron there ".

Well, I'd tell you that you're wrong in every way, but it seems you've already been told.

SC fanboy. Admit it, you're just a sc fanboy.

We both love sc & cpm. But there's a difference between you and me :

You're constantly bashing QL, you're acting like if QL was a TOTAL failure, like if it was REALLY shit, which is so fucking wrong. Sure QL has still some things missing and sure it's not the "perfect" game, but it has A LOT of qualities, and it's FUN to play, most of the time. Compared to 95% of the others "commercial" fps, it's Heaven.

On the other side, you're constantly acting like if sc was the perfect game of all time, as if sc2 is the new Jesus, you don't even take into considerations the eventual sc2 issues when you talk about it here. Seems like you're obsessed by the popularity of the game. Did you ever read some TL.net posts by some "advanced" & "experienced" SC players . Can't you see that there's some sc2 aspects that could be improved or even completely changed ? Can't you see that on the other hand, sc1 gameplay, although being really good, is NOT perfect, and that even if there's a country entierely dedicated to this game (south korea), that still not means that the game is the "OMFG GOD GAME THIS IS THE ANSWER TO ALL YOUR QUESTIONS IN LIFE, BTW, PROs KOREANS KNOWS, I MEAN, THEY KNOWS, AND YOU DON'T" ?

Are you blind ? Can't you see that you need more mouse skill overall when you're a quake player than when you're a sc player ? Can't you see that you need more keyboard skill when you're a sc player than when you're a quake player ? Sorry to disappoint you, but that's a fact.
Pro koreans are really good and really smart at what they do, but you can't deny that when it comes to fast-paced fps or even fps in general, they almost have no clue. I mean, did you ever watch boxer play sudden attack ? :P. Why do you think they're still using small func-like pads with "crap" mouses (nal_ra is even still using a ball mouse, ZeRo4's style lol, except that ZeRo4 don't play with it anymore and that nowadays his aim is not top notch. Sure you could say that nal_ra is not as fast as flash, but look at flash or jaedong's mouses, and then say it again :) ). There's also a reason why there's no quake at WCG
anymore. And don't tell me that's cuz quake is a failure, because it's simply a stupid argument.

Sc and quake have quite a lot of similarities, also cuz they're both fast-paced and balanced, but still, you need different skill sets for this 2 games. I doubt that flash, even with 1 year of intensive practice, would be able to reach rapha's or cypher's lvl, or strenx aim. And i doubt that even with 1 year of intensive and remunerated practice, rapha or cypher would be able to reach flash's lvl at sc.

Yeah, i know that you'll constantly reply just to have the last word, or just cuz you can't accept the fact that you're wrong sometimes, so then pls, this time, just admit the truth? It's not a big deal to be wrong, as long as you're not wrong ALL THE TIME.

(btw some of your tl.net posts are quite lol ^^, you should change your fanboy elitist mentality
sometimes ^^)

You're constantly bashing QL, you're acting like if QL was a TOTAL failure, like if it was REALLY shit, which is so fucking wrong. Sure QL has still some things missing and sure it's not the "perfect" game, but it has A LOT of qualities, and it's FUN to play, most of the time. Compared to 95% of the others "commercial" fps, it's Heaven.

So, you're saying that I'm wrong because you have a differing opinion on the game? Great argument! As a game, it's a failure. End of story.

On the other side, you're constantly acting like if sc was the perfect game of all time, as if sc2 is the new Jesus, you don't even take into considerations the eventual sc2 issues when you talk about it here.

Actually, if you had read any of my posts on SC2 (which, you obviously didn't), you'd know that I've pointed out that SC2 still needs plenty of work to live up to SC:BW, but that it's at least on the right track. Way to be wrong AGAIN!

Did you ever read some TL.net posts by some "advanced" & "experienced" SC players . Can't you see that there's some sc2 aspects that could be improved or even completely changed ?

TL is far from "advanced & experienced".

Can't you see that on the other hand, sc1 gameplay, although being really good, is NOT perfect, and that even if there's a country entierely dedicated to this game (south korea), that still not means that the game is the "OMFG GOD GAME THIS IS THE ANSWER TO ALL YOUR QUESTIONS IN LIFE, BTW, PROs KOREANS KNOWS, I MEAN, THEY KNOWS, AND YOU DON'T" ?

The best part of SC:BW is that the only BIG problem is that several units are underpowered, and merely don't get used except for BM. SC:BW isn't perfect (as no game ever will be), but it's the closest game we have to perfection.

Can't you see that you need more mouse skill overall when you're a quake player than when you're a sc player ? Can't you see that you need more keyboard skill when you're a sc player than when you're a quake player ? Sorry to disappoint you, but that's a fact.

Sorry to have to break it to you that SC players are more skilled in both mechanical departments. =X

Pro koreans are really good and really smart at what they do, but you can't deny that when it comes to fast-paced fps or even fps in general, they almost have no clue. I mean, did you ever watch boxer play sudden attack ? :P

Have you seen any of the Q3/CPM players in SC? Yeah, just as bad, if not worse.

Why do you think they're still using small func-like pads with "crap" mouses (nal_ra is even still using a ball mouse, ZeRo4's style lol, except that ZeRo4 don't play with it anymore and that nowadays his aim is not top notch. Sure you could say that nal_ra is not as fast as flash, but look at flash or jaedong's mouses, and then say it again :) ). There's also a reason why there's no quake at WCG
anymore. And don't tell me that's cuz quake is a failure, because it's simply a stupid argument.

Terribles in Quake are still using crap mouses like the WMO, just because others use it. It's likely no different with the mini optical. Nal_rA is retired, and is nothing to write home about. Quake is a failure, and has been since Quake 3 came out.

Sc and quake have quite a lot of similarities, also cuz they're both fast-paced and balanced, but still, you need different skill sets for this 2 games.

No.

I doubt that flash, even with 1 year of intensive practice, would be able to reach rapha's or cypher's lvl, or strenx aim. And i doubt that even with 1 year of intensive and remunerated practice, rapha or cypher would be able to reach flash's lvl at sc.

I doubt any of them would be able to reach Flash's level in SC with 10 years of practice.

Once again, you're wrong about everything ever. I suppose one can't expect much from France. You're true to the failures of your Warsow flag once again.

The fuck are you still arguing with Heartless?
And don't talk shit about the wmo, it's not crap. It's outdated, it feels cheap but it's still a good mouse.

Just using his words.

Yeah but that's mean you know, the poor thing is already dissed enough by 1235486 dpi kids....

"The fuck are you still arguing with Heartless?"

Yep, he should just surrender like you. Fucking french.

*notsureifserious.jpg*

"So, you're saying that I'm wrong because you have a differing opinion on the game? Great argument! As a game, it's a failure. End of story."

I have a different opinion than you about "failure". End of story. Also, i know that in your dreams all the frustrated quake players would play sc and be destroyed by sc koreans progamers. Keep dreaming.

"Actually, if you had read any of my posts on SC2 (which, you obviously didn't), you'd know that I've pointed out that SC2 still needs plenty of work to live up to SC:BW, but that it's at least on the right track. Way to be wrong AGAIN!"

So, we both agree that sc2 still need plenty of work to live up to SC:BW. You can remove your old ESR post about the beginning of the beta then i guess. Notice the "but that it's at least on the right track", typical fanboy argument. Remember q4 ?

"TL is far from "advanced & experienced"."

What is "advanced and experienced" for you then ? -_-. Stop licking koreans pro's balls tbh. Also, that's why i used "".

"The best part of SC:BW is that the only BIG problem is that several units are underpowered, and merely don't get used except for BM. SC:BW isn't perfect (as no game ever will be), but it's the closest game we have to perfection."

I agree that it's the closest game we have to perfection for a competitive fast-paced STR. But quake is also the closest game we have to perfection for a competitive fast-paced FPS. And you admit that some things should be changed in SC, we both agree here, right ? But why are you so radical when it comes to quake ?
For you it's like :
1 issue for quake ---> it's a total failure
3 issues for starcraft ---> it's ok, it will be fixed in the near future, sc is the best game of all time

Fanboy.

"Sorry to have to break it to you that SC players are more skilled in both mechanical departments. =X"

I think i will focus on your "=x" only.
Here again, blind sc fanboy.

"Have you seen any of the Q3/CPM players in SC? Yeah, just as bad, if not worse."

Yep, did you at least read my entire post ? :/
Btw, not worst, just as bad :).

"Terribles in Quake are still using crap mouses like the WMO, just because others use it. It's likely no different with the mini optical. "

Yep, cuz we're all sheep. But still, saying that the wmo is like the mini optical is kinda lol. Also, most of the current quake "pros" doesn't use microsoft mouses anymore... Did you ever try the mini-optical on large cloth pad ? Crap.

"Nal_rA is retired, and is nothing to write home about."

Nal_ra is semi-retired. And he's kinda like boxer or yellow or even nada. And with a good day and proper preparation, they can still take a map from players like stork, bisu, jaedong, flash etc... Ofc, they're not as fast as jaedong or flash, ofc they dunno the uptodate builds etc, but still, they're using the same mouses as most pro kor players, and their practice follows essentially the same model.

"Quake is a failure, and has been since Quake 3 came out."

Why are you still reading ESR then ? Only to spread your SC propaganda ?

"No."

Yes.

"I doubt any of them would be able to reach Flash's level in SC with 10 years of practice."

I doubt any of the pro kor would be able to reach cypher's lvl with 10 years of practice.

"Once again, you're wrong about everything ever."

Once again, you're wrong about everything ever.

"I suppose one can't expect much from France."

Yep, i'm sry, i'm french, don't be too rude pls. :D

"You're true to the failures of your Warsow flag once again. "

Yep, and also my nick is retarded. More seriously, are you in need of real arguments to make me wrong ? I can help you if you ask gently.

I have a different opinion than you about "failure". End of story. Also, i know that in your dreams all the frustrated quake players would play sc and be destroyed by sc koreans progamers. Keep dreaming.

Feel free to prove it wrong. Otherwise, it's you who will have to keep dreaming.

So, we both agree that sc2 still need plenty of work to live up to SC:BW. You can remove your old ESR post about the beginning of the beta then i guess. Notice the "but that it's at least on the right track", typical fanboy argument. Remember q4 ?

No, that post is still completely valid. In fact, the very post you're talking about SAID that it still needed work. Keep failing.

What is "advanced and experienced" for you then ? -_-. Stop licking koreans pro's balls tbh. Also, that's why i used "".

I didn't say that Koreans were better than TL, but just that TL is far from professional in any regard. Your straw man arguments are pretty bad.

But quake is also the closest game we have to perfection for a competitive fast-paced FPS.

No.

And you admit that some things should be changed in SC, we both agree here, right ?

No.

1 issue for quake ---> it's a total failure

1 issue? Since when did QL manage to fix the myriad other issues?

Nal_ra is semi-retired. And he's kinda like boxer or yellow or even nada. And with a good day and proper preparation, they can still take a map from players like stork, bisu, jaedong, flash etc... Ofc, they're not as fast as jaedong or flash, ofc they dunno the uptodate builds etc, but still, they're using the same mouses as most pro kor players, and their practice follows essentially the same model.

Retired. Even in his silly attempt to come back to pro-gaming (huge failure, btw), the other pro gamers mocked his poor play.

Why are you still reading ESR then ? Only to spread your SC propaganda ?

From the ABOUT section: "ESReality.com is a community driven website targeted at online and multiplayer computer gamers, although the subject matter can and often does diverge from computers and gaming."

I doubt any of the pro kor would be able to reach cypher's lvl with 10 years of practice.

If a shoe-stealing pole can do it, anyone can.

Your arguments continue to disappoint.

"Feel free to prove it wrong. Otherwise, it's you who will have to keep dreaming."

Prove what wrong ? That they would get destroyed if they played sc ? You already know my opinion about that and we both agree. But what i meant is that they will never ever switch to sc2 (at least most of them), because quake will never die (yes i'm a fanboy here too lol) ! And i hope that sc2 will be a success :).

"No, that post is still completely valid. In fact, the very post you're talking about SAID that it still needed work. Keep failing."

Yep, but what i meant is that it was a VERY enthusiastic post, obviously you were influenced by the fact that it's starcraft and that it's new. Exactly like every quake player on earth when q4 was getting close to be released.
And i remember that when i asked you something about the gameplay etc, your answer was very vague and obviously driven by your fanboism.

"I didn't say that Koreans were better than TL, but just that TL is far from professional in any regard. Your straw man arguments are pretty bad."

Did i say it's professionnal ? I just said that most of the TL.net players know the game enough to have some interesting opinions about it, for example. Ofc it's not "professionnal", but you can't deny that when you talk about starcraft, tl.net is the right place to go. And btw you still didn't answer my question.

"No." "No."

What am i supposed to say ? Yes & Yes i guess ?

"1 issue? Since when did QL manage to fix the myriad other issues?"

:-/// I didn't ever say that QL has only 1 issue, it was just for the example. What i meant is that for you, when there's 1 issue at QL, you scream everywhere that quake is a failure and that sc is the future, and on the opposite, when there's 1 issue at sc, you keep your enthusiasm and stay positive... Cuz you know, the koreans are playing it, soz it just CAN'T be bad lol.

"Retired. Even in his silly attempt to come back to pro-gaming (huge failure, btw), the other pro gamers mocked his poor play."

Thks i know. What about boxer, yellow, nada btw ? And did you read what i wrote ? I said that sure he's not at flash lvl and will never be, but still with a good day and proper practice he can still take a map from him.

"From the ABOUT section: "ESReality.com is a community driven website targeted at online and multiplayer computer gamers, although the subject matter can and often does diverge from computers and gaming.""

Fine then. But still, don't try to convince people that sc2 is the ultimate game and pls stop flaming quake each time there's an opportunity, thks.

"If a shoe-stealing pole can do it, anyone can."

Lol. Nice troll. What about rapha ? Toxic ? And yeah av3k is probably a bit retarded outside of the game sometimes, but still, in game, he is a "genius".

"Your arguments continue to disappoint. "

Your arguments continue to disappoint.

You already know my opinion about that and we both agree. But what i meant is that they will never ever switch to sc2 (at least most of them), because quake will never die (yes i'm a fanboy here too lol) !

No.

Yep, but what i meant is that it was a VERY enthusiastic post, obviously you were influenced by the fact that it's starcraft and that it's new.

No.

And i remember that when i asked you something about the gameplay etc, your answer was very vague and obviously driven by your fanboism.

No.

Did i say it's professionnal ? I just said that most of the TL.net players know the game enough to have some interesting opinions about it, for example. Ofc it's not "professionnal", but you can't deny that when you talk about starcraft, tl.net is the right place to go. And btw you still didn't answer my question.

They are about as interesting as yours. That is to say, not at all.

I didn't ever say that QL has only 1 issue, it was just for the example.

So you fail at making an example, and expected me to respond to it?

What i meant is that for you, when there's 1 issue at QL, you scream everywhere that quake is a failure and that sc is the future, and on the opposite, when there's 1 issue at sc, you keep your enthusiasm and stay positive... Cuz you know, the koreans are playing it, soz it just CAN'T be bad lol.

I was very positive about QL before I got into the closed beta. I've voiced my feelings on ALL of them - numerous times. I have no reason to make new arguments when NOTHING has been fixed, and things are getting worse. Koreans are not playing SC2 yet - keep failing.

Thks i know. What about boxer, yellow, nada btw ? And did you read what i wrote ? I said that sure he's not at flash lvl and will never be, but still with a good day and proper practice he can still take a map from him.

No.

Fine then. But still, don't try to convince people that sc2 is the ultimate game and pls stop flaming quake each time there's an opportunity, thks.

I never said it was - do you think you can go 1 post without making a straw man argument? I'll stop flaming Quake when it stops giving me so much easy material to work with.

Lol. Nice troll. What about rapha ? Toxic ? And yeah av3k is probably a bit retarded outside of the game sometimes, but still, in game, he is a "genius".

What about them? I was pointing out how a retard already managed to do it, so anyone can.

Since you managed to make this post even worse than the last, I can only imagine that you will come back with an even more impressively bad post. Save time, see it my way.

"No."

Yes.

"No."

Yes.

"They are about as interesting as yours. That is to say, not at all."

They are about as interesting as yours. That is to say, not at all.

"So you fail at making an example, and expected me to respond to it?"

I didn't fail, it's just that you didn't get it.

"I was very positive about QL before I got into the closed beta. I've voiced my feelings on ALL of them - numerous times. I have no reason to make new arguments when NOTHING has been fixed, and things are getting worse. Koreans are not playing SC2 yet - keep failing."

Rofl, and you're lying. You were never ever as positive with ql as you are now with sc2. It's even the opposite. Things are not getting worse btw. It's just that it's kind of slow yes, but still, far from being a failure -_-.
Yep, but koreans are playing sc1.

"No."

Yes.

"I'll stop flaming Quake when it stops giving me so much easy material to work with."

What are the easy materials exactly ?

"I was pointing out how a retard already managed to do it, so anyone can."

Yep, even Vedic can !

"Since you managed to make this post even worse than the last, I can only imagine that you will come back with an even more impressively bad post. Save time, see it my way. "

No.

Rofl, and you're lying. You were never ever as positive with ql as you are now with sc2. It's even the opposite. Things are not getting worse btw. It's just that it's kind of slow yes, but still, far from being a failure -_-.
Yep, but koreans are playing sc1.

You obviously didn't read any of my posts here, or on the QL beta forums, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I was a very big supporter of Quake in general, and extremely optimistic about QL - PRIOR to actually getting to play it and discuss the issues with id.

What are the easy materials exactly ?

Use the search function. If you don't even KNOW my thoughts on the issue (but seem happy to claim that I have a problem with OMG 1 ISSUE) why are you even still talking?

I was right - it was worse. Care to disappoint even more?

"You obviously didn't read any of my posts here, or on the QL beta forums, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen."

I read 80% of your post even at quakelive.com, and you never ever were particularly optimistic or enthusiast about ql. As i said, it was even the opposite.

"I was a very big supporter of Quake in general, and extremely optimistic about QL - PRIOR to actually getting to play it and discuss the issues with id. "

Again there, pure lying. Try again. Or maybe your memory is off ?

"Use the search function. If you don't even KNOW my thoughts on the issue (but seem happy to claim that I have a problem with OMG 1 ISSUE) why are you even still talking?"

Nop, don't need it. It's not i don't know your thoughts on the issues, it's just that i wanted to see if you weren't trolling or whatever. Apparently you're not, which is scary.

"I was right - it was worse. Care to disappoint even more? "

You're wrong, still the same story. I'm not even disappointed.

I read 80% of your post even at quakelive.com, and you never ever were particularly optimistic or enthusiast about ql. As i said, it was even the opposite.

That's funny - what name did I use in quake live? I can't wait to hear you lie your way through this one.

Again there, pure lying. Try again. Or maybe your memory is off ?

No.

Nop, don't need it. It's not i don't know your thoughts on the issues, it's just that i wanted to see if you weren't trolling or whatever. Apparently you're not, which is scary.

Oh, so now you were "testing" me by making shit up? So why are you still making it up as you go? You failed the first 3 times.

You're wrong, still the same story. I'm not even disappointed.

You expect the story to change, simply because you keep repeating idiocy? While repeating lies might convince you that it's how things really are, it won't work on me. While your arguments were absolutely retarded before, it seems you've degenerated into verbal flailing, just to keep you afloat.

"No."

Yes.

"Oh, so now you were "testing" me by making shit up? So why are you still making it up as you go? You failed the first 3 times."

I wasn't testing you. I said that i just wanted to know if your memory isn't as bad as i think

"You expect the story to change, simply because you keep repeating idiocy? While repeating lies might convince you that it's how things really are, it won't work on me. While your arguments were absolutely retarded before, it seems you've degenerated into verbal flailing, just to keep you afloat. "

I don't expect the story to change, there's no hope with you. I'm not degenerating into verbal flailing, it's just that it's so useless to argue with you. You always want the last word, just to show to all the ESR users that you're Vedic the GREAT.

You seem to have missed part of my post. My name - the one you said you read posts from - what was it?

"You seem to have missed part of my post. My name - the one you said you read posts from - what was it? "

You mean about "What is 'advanced and experienced' for you then ?" ?

What's the matter? You seemed so eager to run your mouth before, and even offered the fact that you've read my QL posts. Go on, tell me my name on the site.

Vedic, in fact i don't hate you, i mean, you're probably a cool guy irl etc...

It's just that sometimes i'm tired to argue, not everyone has all the motivation to keep arguing for like days and nights.

My opinion about sc, quake and the logi mini optical is still the same, i won't try to convince you anymore. think what you think, do what you want to do, it's ok.

Now i'm gonna close ESR and doing something else ^^. Cu.

Dominated.

Yes, i have to admit that you're better than me at perseverating. I don't know where you find all this energy and time to keep posting endlessly until you make your "opponent" rage tbh :).

GG. :)

Btw I think you're still fucking stubborn :P

Maybe next time you'll avoid making an essay-length off-topic post that's full of shit in response to a single line of text.

Moar please!!!

The Mini Optical sensor is a load of shit. I don't understand why the pros continue to use them, most likely because StarCraft being only 640x480 it's not a huge deal, but honestly they are terrible sensors, huge correction and skip like mad if you try to play FPS.

Skipping is a result of sensitivity, and prediction means nothing.

Vedic.




SHUT

THE

FUCK

UP.

ADMIT

THAT

YOU

ARE

WRONG.

No.

hehe, fine then.

raged like a middle-aged belgian man who let the kid get away.

Just to understand what you are trying to say.

Are you implying that no matter how bad a sensor is, it can be "fixed" if you just use the correct sensitivity?

More that skipping is a result of using too low sensitivity.

they are perfectly fine for everything else, that may be the reason

you tested it?

I haven't, but I'm in the market to.

it's probably good for sc with superhigh sens like those kids have, but for fps all logis outside the mx series are total garbage.

SC still needs precise clicks, so medium to high sens would be more accurate. I'm sure the sensor on the mini optical would be comparable to the same generic types of sensors on the WMO/etc..

not in my experience. the optical logis I tried spazmed out at 1/3 of the speed I usually move my mouse at.

The mini optical has a shitty sensor with a fuckton of prediction. The reason it's THE mouse for sc is simple : it used to be as cheap as a wmo in korea thus you were sure to find them in pretty much every pc bang. + it's small and light. The first pro sc players were used to it -> copycat fest.
The same thing goes for the shitty keyboard that's still praised by foreigners while the korean pros went on to better equipment.

And let's not even talk about mousepads since several pros still use ( or did the last time I took a glance at their equipment ) the same shitty kind of 15*10cm Lion King mousepads that Unkind and a lot of other Pr0 0ldScho0l Russ14ns were used to.

Prediction is not an issue, so that means absolutely nothing. Korean pros were, and still are using the Samsung SEM-DT35.

I do agree that prediction is something that you can get used to. It must be hard given the retarded high sens most foreigners use but I guess ( hope ) koreans are not dumb enough to use such a RSI inducing sens. ( from the videos I've seen, they're not )
I'll investigate a bit because I really remember people spraying cum on tl.net when some random 5$ chinese copy of TEH ULTIMATE KEYBAORD popped up on ebay.

That would be the Samsung SEM-DT35. =P

It's something like $5 if you were *in* Korea, but it costs something like $50 to get one shipped over here. It's really just a generic keyboard, but all the starcraft pros are still using it.

I do remember reading stuff about *chinese copies* or whatever deal some guys managed to find but I cba to find the threads and thus will try to avoid or gtfo of every argument over keyboards we could have in the future unless you're so obviously wrong that a handful of words would get you down on your knees begging esr for mercy :D

I think I'm gonna take punctuation classes.

you're so obviously wrong that a handful of words would get you down on your knees begging esr for mercy :D

you don't seem to know vedic :]

Did you ever end up getting one? I'd love to hear you tell me how right I was all along. ;)

No, I didn't. I need me some thumb buttons. =X

If you read that thread carefully you'll see her initially come off as someone motivated and caring about what the gamers want and genuinely interested in their input, then suddenly change to sounding like a press release and saying something about not being able to make all the gamers happy and all this.

It was really disappointing because to me it looked like some upper management type "reminded" her that logitech is a big company that stopped giving a rat's patootie about what gamers want a long time ago.

ya i remember...

i just want to blame the dissapearance of the mx300 on someone

Eyjafjallajökull????

i already had lunch, thanks tho

kudos if you posted that without looking it up

haha. never. :D

Nick Clegg?

off topic: someone tried out the "new" silver g1 from korean(?) ?
i read it has 1000dpi instead of 800dpi. true? Still 400dpi without drivers? negative accel?

I believe noctis did, but he didn't say much about it (except that it was doing 1000 dpi)

Still 400dpi without drivers?

thats the mx300, g1 never needed drivers and yes, the silver g1 has 1000 dpi

i didn't notice any negative accel tho i haven't used it much, im still using my old g1 optics.

where is my mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7sGp7Glxis

random, thnx, and good movie and song, have a plus.

Decent song, shit band, pretty good movie. :P

No reason to get a salmosa, when the abyssus is far superior in every category. If you spend 5 more dollars on a mouse, get the abyssus.

too late, and the glowing lights and strange buttons that aren't really buttons werre reason enoujgh to put me off of it.

one of the buttons on my abyssus broke, apart from that i like that mouse quite well, maybe even better than the usual pilot shaped ones i have

There are plenty of reasons to get a salmosa. Why paying 5 bucks more? It is the perfect mouse (if you know how to fix its flaws). WMO is even cheaper, but not perfect regarding performance.

anywayz she left you ihihihi

I'm a tiny bit disappointed I entered a thread with the word "chick" in the title and finding it somewhat devoid of said creatures

and yet I'm not entirely surprised that the vast majority of the content in said thread contains the terms 'dpi', '500hz', 'Nick Clegg' and 'max tracking speed'




That's depressing brahs.






Have a chick.










Many of you may have figured I just went on google images, inputted 'chick' and posted the first novelty picture.

But feel free to do the same with safe-search off, and be glad I chose this one.

img not approved yet, but I hope it's a chicken. A picture of a woman might distract me away from reading all the essays about strenx's sens.

It's a biker chick.




Derp.

Hi, it's Logimgr here (aka "Logitech chick" I suppose). In all disclosure, I am no longer working on the gaming mice, but I still follow these forums out of personal interest when I can. I can pass on some feedback to those who are working on the gaming mice. I know the current team (most of them gamers) do read the forums and occasionally participate. Most of the time, they will remain silent and monitor, only because, as you can imagine, it's a lot of work to read all the forums and respond to all the notes, especially when they're product managers and engineers. So I just wanted to acknowledge that fact and let you know we are always passionate about our products and improving them for our customers. We appreciate reading the feedback when constructive. Sure, I may speak with more of a "corporate tone" than other posters here, but I need to be conscious that I am a representative of my company.

Sure we've heard a ton of feedback on our products (past and present) and see the many requests that come through forums like on ESR. Unfortunately, we're not able to put out endless variations of our products or keep old products alive forever, especially when the cost to do so just doesn't make financial sense. We don't have a super long list of products, which a lot of the time amount to a reskinning of the same guts. We respect our customers' intelligence and trust you see through the hype.

As for the MX300, yes that product has been discontinued for a while now. The closest thing to it is the G1 sold in Asia. We realize the shape is beloved among a group of gamers throughout the world, but again, we have to weigh the resources required to continue to support manufacturing, component procurement, sales, marketing, customer support, etc. for these skus...it just didn't make sense to continue to make the MX300...and the G1 has really sold well only in Asia.

I know that's probably not satisfactory to many of you, but it's my honest answer.

Slow down! You're killing that awesome rate of 1 post per year!

It's very comforting to know that the companies are aware of the fact that some people care about more in mice then jizzing over high dpi numbers.

did you guys even release the g1 in the u.s.? of course it sold well only in asia if that's the only place you released it.

Nah, it was released in Europe when we first launched it, and it didn't sell well at all. Our Europe sales (in terms of model popularity) are very similar to in the US, so the sales results in Europe were likely a good proxy for the US. If anything, we suspect the US sales might have been even worse since on a general scale (and I broadly stereotype here) the US market seems to prefer larger mice shapes.

because americans got fat hands

woah, thanks for the answer! didn't really expect anything tbh.

well, its a shame that you discontinued that mouse. and if i may ask: does the g3 sell good?

after about 7-8 years of trusted server by my mx300 it finally broke down. i got myself a g3 but i really wasn't satisfied at all.
after also trying out a wmo 1.1a, i finally settled for a razer salmosa.

i really would've liked to buy another mx300

why didn't you like the wmo?

-too light

-i prefer a really grippy style of holding the mouse, salmosa is smaller

- the mousewheel REALLY annoys me

Isnt salmosa lighter then the wmo? :\
i prefer the salmosa shape aswell btw, i have both aswell. wmo is a bit to high and fat in the front.

also did you remove the weight in the mx300 when you had it?

no, didnt remove anything..
not sure about the weight wmo vs salmosa, but salmosa has a more robust feel overall, wmo feels like it might fall apart.

alsop what you say.. the wmo is just too large volume-wise.

biggest thumbs up for the salmosa for me personally is that i dont need some sort of flunky drivers or regedits to get it working properly. the two hardware switches do all the magic.

G3 sells well in Korea...G1 is much bigger in China

So you could finally get to meet Sujoy and McFly and thus you quit your job, to live a happy ménage ā trois and have a lot of little mice ?

I know a guy who had a talk with the Logitech product manager for the G-Series a few weeks ago, doesn't sound like we will see something "satisfying" in the near future, not really a surprise for me.