Major please!

for me thats the first tdm cup i have no interest in participating, but i guess a lot of people will like to play on all the old maps again

idd not really interested in that pool

yeah we're going to skip aswell

edit: good job on organizing shit though

retribution isnt premium but its nice to see back in mappool

dm6 and dm7 :D :D :D

its cock out time!

I just worry some teams might not signup because of the old maps... already a few not so positive comments about it.

Maybe include the current maps or some, to give some choice to newer teams as well?

Maybe include the current maps or some, to give some choice to newer teams as well

their whole concept is having two cups with a very different focus. this one with only q3 maps and the next one with only ql maps

Yeah i get that point but having only a handful of teams sign up because they dont know/care for the old maps again might hurt the first cup.

Don't think i dont want to play the old maps, i do, i've played dm6/7 till i was blue in the face in quake3 for 10 years and they never get old in my eyes, however it may put some people/teams off.

the only map makes tdm more watchable for spectator, especially for beginner under the current circumstances is definitely dm7 bc of its flow

Yeah i agree, dm6 might prove a challenge for new teams/players and may not be all that interesting for the spectators, though i am sure the teams playing it (me included) would relish every second of it.

Edit, oh yeah, dm7 with todays aim and netcode should be an absolute cess fest enjoyment, much like hidden fortress!

well for you and me, it would be. but for someone never watched tdm they can easily relate to other games cos of rail heavyness (sniper?) and the map have easy dynamics so theyll understand the main strategy quickly, while also being able to appreciate individual performance (rail whoring).
tdm viewing numbers are rather cringe-worthy aside DHS, which was pretty much a one hit wonder. to get tdm going viewers need to be engaged. you can make the mappool full of maps like osp5, dm14, etc but those who dont play just wont understand anything besides players running around and the ones with the weapons kills those who have mg...

HOLY SHIT DM6 GONNA GET EDEN BACK

Summer cups are usually fun cups. And the chance to try different things that sometimes change the official map pool or cup format etc for the upcoming (more serious) spring/fall seasons.

Besides, the map pools for these two cups did not change too much, as each cup still has three maps from the official pool. We just want to try out if some older maps are better with the current way QL TDM is played than some in the pool and -- most of all -- if new maps that were added after the current map pool was set are worth playing.

I hope teams will have fun playing the cups, anyway, and be open for good maps, old or new.

i think its a good idea for two small, in between, cups like this. diversity isnt bad, this first cup is just not my cup of tea ;)

Wow, real TDM maps for a change ;o

I want to play in the cups rather then stream, thanks to the interesting map pools.

First you need to pick a map, then when it is 1-1 you eliminate one to decide the decider map ;)

fixed!

An excellent choice to play ;-)

I would love to take part in some dm6/dm7 games again but also see some of the current top clans play them, the enjoyment factor could be huge if the right teams faced up against each other.

do so, these are cups for the players, not for the spectators

need to sort a team then!

nvc (captain, strategist and most important player all around)
dis (aimwhore 1)
vor (aimwhore 2)
2gd (railwhore)

map pool fail

I don't like the map pool so much, but think it is a very nice initiative from ESL. We need more variation to keep up with other online games.

Also this can be fun for players that have only played ql (I am one of those) and never catched the great tdm era of quake 3 ;)

1. remove all old maps
2. play only new maps
3. remove every "old" map with every new tdm map
4. ...
5. profit!

There have been A LOT of maps in q3 tdm, yet dm6, dm7 etc were played even in the last popular cups in vq3.

It should not be about what map is new but about what map works best. So while there should be a stable map pool during "serious" seasons so teams don't have to practice too many maps, summer/winter breaks can be used to play whatever we have and see what works best and maybe form new opinions on what the mappool for spring/fall leagues should look like. Therefor we have two tournaments with two completely different map pools and we want to try things out.

People shouldn't hate new maps just because they would have to learn something new. BUT people should not play new maps just because they are new. We need GOOD maps, not NEW maps.

how can you realize if a new map is good or not? you have to play it, and you have to play it more than 5 times to understand the flow, important design mistakes, and much more. So ppl should allways play new maps and so can try to improve them and make them GOOD! New map should be kind of shuffle-feature, which makes community very fresh, so every season other teams can play high and not only the same 5 teams.

And if ppl just practice 24/7 and can play new maps better than old veterans i think they deserve it!

I agree. And that's what cups like this are for imo. During the main season the pool should be locked, else it's not fair for teams who can't find the time to learn a new map within one week or so.

That's quite a different statement than "remove all old maps", though. If there is a new map and it's GOOD we should definitely play it! But we should not stick to something just because it is new.

And when you talk about maps being played and a flow being found: What about cpm4? Cessing shaft for 20 minutes? Even dm7 has more tp dynamics than that. No, the current pool has some maps just because they were "new" (to QL) and dumped some that are not too bad afterall.

by new maps dont mean old osp maps!

"its not fair for teams who can't find thetime to learn a new map"

NO!? If you cant find time to play the game, than you are not good enought for a high level. Thats exactly the problem, its not fair to play vs ppl which have years of exp on dm14, osp5/6 and so on. Remove all old maps and play only new maps, so everyone has the chance to win. Why (new) players with time and motivation should be punished with old maps and veterans get an advantage? They (oldsql players) have already very good aim and understanding of the game, they should just dont be lazy to learn new maps, otherwise, they should lose on every new map with 100+ frags and cry how bad new maps are and how unfair 24/7 is!

You have dramatically shortened my statement here. It's unfair if teams have to learn new maps in a very short period of time, during spring/fall seasons. Teams should know what they sign up for when a larger spring/fall league is about to start. Changing the map pool during a season is just bad.
New maps should be introduced in situations like this. And that's exactly what we do -- the cup next week will have tornado and dies irae alongside dp dm20 and purga. With THIS first volume we want a) people to remain active and have a bit more time to practice the new maps for next week's volume and b) see if dm6 or dm7 are better in a pool with seven maps than for example cpm4 or dm20 cess fest. If you play them all you can ask people afterwards about their opinion, and then you can make a good map pool for the fall season.

changing mappool during the season is stupid and i've never said it should be done, but atm there isnt any major league running. What I say is, to be radical enough to remove EVERY old map from pool. Using cups for introducing new maps is a great idea.

awesome map pool is awesome

I'd be interested in playing this (map pool ftw) if anyone wants an ancient q3tdm er

i dont understand why they chose this map pool at all. i mean i couldve understood it if all the maps were non premium and they wanted to cater to the unsubscribed players but this is just stupid.

o well. still hope it does well.

Had a pickup on dm6 and a pcw on dm7. It was a bit weird at first but fantastic fun all the same!

C A M P G R O U N D S
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GG & EMPIRE streams if needed: http://www.goodgame.ru/news.php?ocd=view&id=10390

Also, we gonna provide a stream without shoutcasters - just quake live sound + video. May be... :)

P.S. We will start ~at 22:00 CEST. TDM bo3 with 15-20 teams is really long event.

If all goes well (like the pre summer cups did) you will be able to stream the final at 22.00.
As the description says we are planning on having at least 2 divisions again which makes for three rounds. Should not take too long...

Ok, I think we can start at 21:00/21:30

At least stream without casters will be at this time, but I can start little bit earlier. Just stay tuned.

any stream when this starts?

lvlup, bw, stream

great seeds, holy cow!

Silent Stream --> http://www.bloodywarriors.com

cz/sk stream http://www.justin.tv/czsk

Aaaaaand it's over!

Div 1:
1st WAP
2nd E-vio
3rd Koko

Div 2:
1st zA
2nd t13
3rd Cl:)

Congratz to the winners, ggs and thanks for attending everyone!

Sign up for the next one on next wednesday where we will rock the new maps, including dies irae and tornado!

Thx for the cup smuf! It was really fun to play TDM again :).

Hopefully we will be put in lower div next week. We get pwned in almost every esl cup where we signed up but this seed was a joke. All 3 ranked teams from div2 had won easily against us.

So don't think that we will get any chance to win just a map against some div1 team.

If we will put again in div1 we might don't want to participate in any other esl cups bcs there are other ways to get pwned. (e.g. ask EC team for a pcw or smthg.)

regards Premonitioner

premo u were member of miel gaming, u are multiple eu champion in q3 tdm, so u have to play in div1 :D

right, i was part of miel but just as coach. If i had played they haven't won anything. :)

In the end of each cup the coach wasn't mentioned so noone cared about a coach except the players.

ye seeds where bad, ashlen b in 1st div is very big fail

I don't think I made that many errors with the seedings. There were many interesting games right from the start and they became ever more exciting toward the finals. If two top teams knock each other out and the final is a world class team vs a noob team, that's a bad seed.

I would also like to point out that due to that fact the cup tree puts the best seed vs the lowest seed in that division in the first round. It is a bad thing imo and I try to compensate when I do seeds. There is also the problem that even with multiple divisions, there has to be the line between two divisions and one team always has to be the lowest seed in a division. If you think cups like this are shit because of the seedings, think again and remember when you met a european top 10 team in the first round because in other cups there was only on division with similar seedings. I think so far, people had fun in the ESL pre summer and summer cups....

The only real mistake i see was the one you mainly talk about, I guess. Ashlen. Only thing i can say is that i am sorry and that I had not taken enough time to check the lineup but just went by experience. ashlen.at (which was ashlen 2 afair) seems to have renamed to ashlen while ashlen (the former main team, div 1 team) seems to be more or less dead. When I checked later, I saw they are all in the in honorary section, all but you.That mistake won't happen again.

VOD on own3d (rus) - http://www.goodgame.ru/video.php?ocd=view&id=2971

I think it's really stupid move for some TDM teams not to attend because they don't like the maps that much.

edit: No offense to any of them, just think not playing because you don't like the maps isn't the right choice.

YEAH, FUCK YOU COLWN

Cups with such a small group of teams attending will always pose some trouble when it comes to seeding.

I'd like to encourage all to just try to have fun. Especially next week with Tornado and Dies Irae. Noone knows how these maps play, chances are they suck, but that is beside the point. This cup is there for one reason only: to try out new stuff. So feel free to jump into the water and just see how it goes.

Tornado actually has some potential imo.

Agreed.

They have fixed the signups for summercup2 now, go go go!