lol, looks fine

u sure bout dat?

looks you're reaching here man. and just for the record I do think that walter cheats against tougher opponents, but haven't seen nothing fishy in that nomadic demo.

60 out of 740 frames are center-pelvis. It's largely insignificant, it's too short of a period for you to really claim anything.

EDIT: @~330FPS, that means it's about 0.18 seconds.

It doesn't matter how many frames are on his center pelvis, it matters how many frames are on his center pelvis when he fires. Not that I'm saying this is, or is not cheats, just saying.

seeing as he's firing the entire clip... I don't seen how that makes sense :P

You do know that mg fire isn't continuous right?

yes but with a 100ms reload or whatever, it'd be ridiculous for you to not treat it as continuous aiming. By those standards, LG isn't continuous firing either (bursts of 66ms? 50ms?).

As long as he's holding down +attack, it's as good as continuous firing. I don't think he's clicking once every 100ms and I don't think that a bot would turn on only on the splits-econd that the bullet fires.

Either way, I don't see how it's relevant. The accusation is that he toggled on a bot for some period of time while shooting. I'm making the point anything even resembling botting only exists for such a short period in the entire aiming interval. I think it's very possible just 519 seeing what he's looking for and calling it hacks. I'm calling it possible coincidence.

Watch the vods of the russian who got caught, that's how it's relevant.

As I've said many times however, this doesn't mean I think he's cheating, I just think you're ignorant.

If you could actually explain something instead of trying to misdirect and throw insults at me, maybe you could get something done!

What's with the attitude?

Either way, here's a few more points.
1) Pointing to other caught cheaters is irrelevant, aimbots can be designed differently and this can't be used to disprove cheats. As for proving them? This clip is too short to prove anything.
2) "it matters how many frames are on his center pelvis when he fires" is only true for a certain implementation and I see no reason why you should assume that's the only thing that matters.
3) I'm done posting here, I just don't get why you have an attitude, what point you're trying to make, or why what I've said that seems to be such a base for being raged and deciding that I'm clueless.

I never claimed to have a 100% grasp on anything.. I just claimed that he's using too small of an example in too big of a set...

So you fail to see how the location of the crosshair only matters when a bullet is being fired? You say that because one implementation does it that way doesn't mean that this one does? Why the fuck does me showing a hack that works like that automatically mean that this one works in a completely different way.

You really aren't too bright.

When you're talking about aimbots and there's no stuttering in the aim? Yes, I fail to see how the location of the crosshair matters only when he's firing. I also never implied that showing you a hack that works one way would disprove or prove anything, I think I explicitly said something to the effect that "one implementations means nothing about the others."

I also never said "because one implementation does it that way doesn't mean that this one does"

What's with you man?

That's seriously one of the silliest things I've ever heard. How does "because one implementation does it doesn't mean all do it" mean ANYTHING. Basically you're saying that because I showed an aimbot where the only time where the crosshair is matters is when it's on a body is irrelevant, because this (alleged) bot is different. How do you know they're not using the same bot? What proof do you have that it's different? Why wouldn't bot makers take the best of what's available?

What's with me is you're talking and not saying anything intelligent. I realize that's the norm for esr, but seriously your comments don't make any sense.

It doesn't mean anything!!! Stop trying to shove words into my mouth. I may have been unclear, but I never said anything logically equivalent to what you're claiming. You never even said anything about "only time where the crosshair is matters is when it's on a body", you only spoke about "it matters how many frames are on his center pelvis when he fires".

To not get over some weird squabble of words, I'll just say this much:
It seems, to me, that kgb is firing for the entire clip. The only part that looks like an aimbot is when the other player is falling. The thing is, it's such a small part of the entire aiming/firing sequence that it seems like it could be due to coincidence.
It seems, to me, you're claiming that some example aimbot, that you never linked to, or described clearly, matches the behavior of kgb's aiming (although it doesn't mean anything) by doing auto-corrections right before the weapon actually "fires."

If that's the case, I'm sorry, you never really explained your point clearly and yes, most of my previous explanations seem largely off-point. As you can see, we're talking about different things. I guess there's a lot of parts to analyzing aimbots.

I still don't see why you keep throwing insults at me. I admitted I don't have the best grasp of what's going on (it is the internet!) but you seem to have thrown in a specifically different, but very relevant and related, topic in your response to me, without really explaining it, and calling me stupid because I didn't acknowledge it thoroughly.

Basically I was just trolling but you managed to deduce what I was trying to say anyway. In the future I will attempt to be more vague and less helpful.

My point is this. If I'm writing an aimbot, I know exactly when the gun can fire next. Instead of keeping the gun locked on the model continuously, I would write it so that the crosshair moved around (somewhat) randomly, and only recentered on the player when the gun could fire again. In this way the mouse movements will look more "normal," while still hitting with high accuracy. This is what I was trying to say when I said "it only matters where the crosshair is when you fire."

In conclusion. Moron.

i liek u

Fucking foiled again!

douche

Jo men jag larade fran dig, gjabben. Du ar bast i varlden.

the russian cheater was snapping to player models and performing perfect traces through walls and around corners
kgb's mouse movements look like someone who(most likely, i don't know him personally) uses a low sensitivity with a large mousepad

Missy must feel offended for this

I see what you're getting at but it's a little alarmist for such a short period of time, plus he was quite close.

but the fact that he was going up a jump pad never crossed your mind? for FUCKS SAKE Liam

It's not the fact that the bot shoots him dead center pelvis briefly.. its that if you notice at all there is zero variation in regard to the model and the cursor. It scans left and right to look more legit but its always exactly the same height level with regard to the player model.. it never moves up or down.

Trust me, watching it in fast motion, if you are someone like me who watched what Napalm3d was doing, you notice this shit doesn't look right compared to normal human aim. People don't zero in like a fcking laser on someones midsection and never move off it like its attached with a magnet.. they strafe with people, the mouse jerks around, it moves up and down, there is approximation in the way they shoot.

This video shows classic bot aim, and to be honest if you don't see this as a dead give away you have never really watched what a bot does. It does this.

the only 'lock' i can see is from 0:06 to 0:07 and wow, 1 sec with timesclae 0.x
do you really think he turns his aimbot on for mging half a secong while someone uses the jumppad and he would hit anyway?

dont blame him i would aim for there too

Y SO SASSY?

Your posts lately are NSFW

oh i can get a whole lot worse ;)

please do...

ha

nsfw? Do you read esr comments out aloud? :D

lol that would be rather amusing

here's a video equally useful:

hahah :>>>

hehe

Good aim perhaps? Yeah it did look a bit weird but upload more videos if you can. I still think hes not cheating tho.

just look at the demo i posted.. kgb bots like 12x or more, blatantly lg and mg bot use. if you can't see it, well, you aren't familiar with how bots work. he is total bot in that game.. 100%

I don't know man. Maybe he just aims like that? Part of me thinks you're already biased against him, but did you look at some of kgb's LAN demos and find that he aims differently?

a part? he's starting to sound like nomadic when it comes to walter, its just hate.

fake demo

he missed at least 3 bullets

JUST KLOOK AT THE DMO I CANNTO BELIEVE YOU DONT NOT SEE THE CHEETS FOR FUCKS SAKE IM SO RAGED OVER INTERNET GAMINGS KILL ME NOW

Alot of manlove going around for walter it seems

thats funneh to me.

someone pls post a lan demo of kgb aiming like here from 0:04 - 0.08

or a lan demo of walter. doing...anything.

teeheeeehee.

Even with all the FD2v2 shit going on right now I'm glad there is someone looking at old demos and looking for hard evidence. I watched KGB's POV demo from when he dueled me a few days ago to see if there was anything fishy and I didn't find anything which was solid evidence.

clan519 cunt

may I ask, why do you love kgb so much?

and also, why do you put so much effort to discredit him?

i can't fucking stand cheaters.

Also, boredom.

But you purposely blind yourself to some truths here.

He's been to a shitload of LANs, played with a lot of top notch players in theirs teams.

But yet, you're still the only one who accuses.

There are many accusers. Some bearing more weight with their accusations than others, but there are plenty of reputable players and nobodies on either side.

1. see sombra

2. hes not alone

czm cheats online?

nothing dodgy here at all, learn to aim noobs.

yeah nubz! lrn2glue crosshair to enemy midsection and shoot someone who is 100/100 down to 48h in like 1 second and then scuttle away because you are incredibly 3l33+.

in all honesty 'clan519' was probably good at quake3 way before you could spell it. seriously :/

Really? Who is this guy?

Don't bother. If they don't know who '519 is by now,....

pffft
newbs.

I've never seen or heard of a player called clan519 before.

I know what 519 was. It's just that some of the players in 519 were shit. I'm guessing that guy is one of them.

Anyone remember those demos of jonathan versus zoomer on cpm1a from years ago. Jonathan had stellar aim (his tracking looked even cleaner than this) but we found out soon that this guy does not fuck around as he went to several polish lans and just fucked people in the ass. Same goes for Lugia, people were a bit suspicious about him, I'm sure if you watched some of his demos or some of the other Euro aim powerhouses you would find plenty of situations similar to this. Especially when people are floating around off a bounce pad...

Looking at that also, the good section of tracking was about .3 of a second. Absolutely possible that he just let his track drift as he was falling and his enemy was falling. Not to mention when his enemy lands, he strafes to the left to continue tracking instead of using his mouse.

Suspicious stuff happens online all the time, but KGB has been proven on lan, and he aims just as well. Never mind the fact that he didn't win any tournaments that is truly irrelevant. The guy can aim and is probably just one of those players who is slightly more comfortable raping people online.

no dude.. no. the bottiest part of this sequence is how when the guy lands, the cursor instantly tracks to the left and stays on him perfectly as he strafes for a second. go download the demo and watch it in fast motion.. it looks just like how a skill 5 bot would lock on you. in the demo you can see chance's health go from 100/100 to 48 in like a split second..

edit: a note about how i think these bots work.. the way micr0n started coding it to look less suspicious is that when you use a hitscan weapon to lock on to someone, the cursor will bounce around the bounding box a little.. it kind of scans around a bit causing it to miss a some and thus not appear 100% bot locked..

the problem is, with any kind of perfect tracking like that the second you do it the damage on the opponent is spectacular and clearly fucking lame. it feels just like getting hit by a skill 5 Xaero with lg/mg for that split second its doing a perfect lock. just watch the demo and see for yourself the times i highlighted.. the damage on chance's end is just pure jokes. at 8:22 you can see kgb jump through a doorway while being bounced by rocket splash and he comes out of it with a beam so steady that Napalm3d would be proud. 83h just zapped away in a flash.

So your argument is that you sit around watching level 5 bots (despite the fact that CPMA has moved on to level 100 bots ages ago) and that other people aren't qualified to say that this isn't a bot because you watch bots more... despite the fact that you're not watching an aimbot, you're watching an id bot.

You spend too much time trying to convince yourself that you're losing to bots instead of improving your game. If anything, you look more suspicious than they do since you have all this self-proclaimed infinite knowledge of bots.

what? what do you think an id bot is.. it's code that you can copy/paste into a hack and then call it an aimbot. i downloaded dem0nhook and a couple of other bots back in the day when there were freely available q3 aimbots/wallhacks that would do pretty much exactly what i'm talking about. i tested them against bots on a dedicated lan server and they looked just like this clip when you would use them. pinpoint center model lock, massive damage from any hitscan.

the most modern one that i ever got my hands on had variables you could set that would do exactly what you see with kgb.. "miss ratios" that would cause the crosshair to bounce around the boundaries of the hitbox and according to how high you set the number, occasionally drift out and wobble around thus making your % drop to more human numbers, yet still have devastating impact. from what i've read of napalm3d's posts where he openly describes the modern hacks, there are settings you can use that are basically helper bots.. you play normally and the hack kind of nudges your crosshair into a solid lock briefly so you get a ridiculously deadly drain on the enemy's health while your movement and tracking remains legit looking. the telltale sign of course is in these moments of pure insane model lock where, if you are specing the guy getting hit, his health just disappears like it's being deleted by God himself.

in conclusion, please realize that i am not talking out my ass here.. i have seen first hand the brilliant measures taken by aimbot/hack coders in their efforts to quell suspicion.

i realize my posts about the obviousness of kgb's botting have been dickish and overbearing, but only because to me it seemed so blatantly obvious (knowing the tell-tale signs having seen what it looks like first hand) and i failed to realize that unless you are familiar with how hacks work and how they have been modded to appear incredibly discreet, you might just mistake these 'moments of insanity' as flukes of the modern high aim skill game. i can assure you, from having seen the bot usage of Napalm3d that what i am pointing out here is clear and irrefutable evidence of modern hacking.

all i can say is try and notice how fast and accurately the cursor tracks the enemy in the instances i point out.. and then view it in timescale 0.2 and see just how unrealistic it would be for a human to track someone with that kind of precision in real-time.

I spent a few hours trying to track an aimbot/wallhack down after the sombra issue as I wanted to see just how easy it was to get away with on even a PB server, and how they worked exactly. I couldn't find any that worked on the latest version of Q3, and the few I managed to track down for older versions ended in dead links. Even the best of what people were recommending didn't have any of the features you are describing.

I've heard of plenty of those features in CS aimbots, but I can neither find nor try any bots with them for Q3. Hell, it's easier to find QL hacks than it is to find things for Q3. I think going so far as to say that they made their own bots would be pretty tinfoil hat level. Are you convinced that what you think is going on here is the only option, or do you admit that you could be wrong?

I'm convinced.. otherwise I wouldn't be spamming esr with all these accusations. micr0n was the big name coder of hacks and the ones that i came across of his that were public, even they had features like i described. The other side of my conviction is based on having played at a very high level and spec'd a ton of games.. what I've seen from the DFM crew has always raised my red flags. Honestly, if I am wrong about this, I'll eat my own hat. And I don't own any hats :P

Just remember how convinced everyone was about czm when he was aliased.

I'd say that you need far more sample data to even begin to make a decision, and you also need some data from LAN activity.

proper cheats for quake are pay(pal) only these days. you can't find any of the advanced stuff to download.

I couldn't even find mention of them, let alone downloads. I even went so far as to check torrents and file sharing.

read again what i wrote. no torrents nothing whatever you won't find anything useful there. it's usually closed sites (forums) and you have to pay for the software.

Right, and that software usually makes it's way to the public. Link me to a site that has a bot with these features and requires pay.

no it does not because it is tailored to the user and forbidden to be shared. it's also useless once shared as pb will pick it up in a second and then you fucked up the hack you actually payed good money for. no one would do that :)

PB fails to pick up the obvious bots, so why would stealth bots be any different? People put up things that they pay for on torrents ALL the time. Where do you think you get the porn that you're beating off to?

Really, this is just epic paranoia. Give me ONE site that has a bot with these features. Just one. I'll pay for it and even put it up for download here. Worried that it'll ruin the community? You just said PB would kill it, so clearly there is no worry.

this is not paranoia. come to think about it i just don't see why i would want to argue with you at all. there's only two options the way i see it:

a) i care about you (i don't)
b) changing your mind would give me something (i don't see it)

(also c) giving people hints on how to get cheats on esr - i don't want to)

someone also told me he had to authorize himself everytime before he could use the software he bought. i'm not sure if this is true but it would explain some of the stuff you wrote.

someone also told me he had to authorize himself everytime before he could use the software he bought. i'm not sure if this is true but it would explain some of the stuff you wrote.

If/maybe/blue moon. I heard this from this person who heard it from etc... Who is this someone? Did you find a site that has any bot like this? If you can't find it, and I can't find it, why can walter and kgb find it?

Don't waste my time trying to argue a point if you weren't ready with any facts to begin with.

i know who 'someone' is... and yes my google can find a site like this.

i know who 'someone' is

So who is it? I'd much rather hear from a real cheater instead of a second-hand cheater.

and yes my google can find a site like this.

I see, but you won't share it, even though you just said that PB would pick up any cheat that I would post anyway. Your christian defense is ineffective.

troll. :)

pb picks ups cheat that get sent to them. it's pretty useless against anything it doesn't know but you know that already.
if you go ahead and spent 70-100$ on a tailored hack and give it to pb it will be able to detect that but nothing more. nothing to win here.

So? I'll post it here so you can even send it in to PB. Hell, I don't even have to post it, if you want. Just show me ONE site (even ONE) that claims to have any bot with the features you describe.

All you need is one! If you can find it on google, anyone can, so you're not doing any damage that isn't already readily accessible. In reality, you DON'T have one, and you're just riding the paranoia train that other people have made up. You even go so far as to try to quote second hand information from "someone" that's completely absurd.

If you can't even point out one site, don't bother to respond. I've heard christian arguments with more substance, as some have at least tried to argue that the bible is a form of proof. You don't even have a bible.

See i found two bibles in my bookcase but i ain't no christian.

If you can't even point out one site, don't bother to respond.

You can't find cheats, and you're unable to follow directions.

What did you type in google?

Not talking about Quake3, but in W:ET (Quake 3) engine, which I play alot and which is pretty cheat infested, there is shitloads of private bots for whom you pay money and which are kinda un-leakable as they require user auth prior to using them. So even if you abtain your copy, it's useless.

Humanized aim is a part of that, you can set values to which degree your aim is beeing "corrected", etc, etc.

In ET there are plenty of cases, when upon reviewing demo in slow motion, player is "busted" for switching targets when 2 enemy's stay in one line, or "perfect" tracking. Nothing that's easy to spot as obvious wallaim or 360 aimbot.

Almost none of these players appear in PB banlist as it is totally useless in detecting these private bots, all of them are "PB Proof" with PBSS blocking and so on so that noone gets busted like that spanish guy Sombra.

There have been few instances when one particuar cheat seller/coder website got hacked (ironic?) and user lists were leaked out... which confirmed many players who were busted by demos.

As we are talking about Quake 3, I assume it's as easy or easier to make a bot for it than for ET, so I wouldn't be surpised if there are many Quake 3 "pro" cheaters.

Haven't watched demos/video from this shitstorm as I don't care, just wanted to say that there are compelx cheats out there.

I'm sure they exist for other games, but I have yet to see any, or even any reference to one for Q3. The scene died out long before anyone cared enough.

it's good that you still care tho. <3

yeah, but don't say it like that. =(

geez dude how many hacks have you downloaded?

That is horse shit. When he lands kgb stops moving his mouse and uses strafe to continue aiming, then when he finally adjusts his mouse it juts to the left and misses a few shots. My point being that this type of aim could be a bot SURE. But, I've also seen this sort of thing happen billions of times from legit players, before they had proven their skill on lans. The fact that you are bringing this up AFTER he has lanned and we all know he can do this on lan is just ridiculous. I could use a bot online too, nobody would be able to prove it.

Alien had posted in the other thread HAS KGB CHEATED IN THE PAST? YES

Nobody has even proved that though. That is just as much an assumption as the current situation. Unless Alien has the old punkbuster banlists that prove certain ip addresses/users getting caught. I do remember seeing the old GGL punkbuster banlists but I can't recall who was actually on it.

Alien is referring to when kgb got banned in Quakecon06 or 07, for using the console to use the command g_guns -20 in a Q4 tourney.

Alien is a hypocrite because he has " tested " cheats while playing in PU games.

Finally Alien has disliked kgb because kgb usually manages to embarrass his teams full of ringers in tourneys that he hosts.

yeah that aircontrol in vq3 is pretty hard to predict

Watched it again. This clip is 100% legit. You're fucking nuts clan519.

i watched the video just yet. you're a fucking moron.

is this a joke?

seriously?

I think every single one of my demos from the past 2 or more years are full of this

let alone anyone remotely decent

people were doing that in OSP 5 or more fucking years ago

never watch a jibo, arrw, cypher or strenx demo for the love of god

youre blind.

here's why.

its not impossible to track the enemymodel for 4 seconds. or its **hitbox**.

but it IS impossible to track the EXACT SAME PIXEL OF THE ENEMYMODEL for 4 seconds. thats probably why drawcrosshair4 was used. so you could see the DOT standing in the exact place no matter where the model is moving.

it's also impossible to break the world record for 100m dash without doping.

as if a useful reply is expected from you

Yeah, but that's not what this vid shows. Judging by the clock and the number of shots fired, the amount of time he's actually dead center is less than 0.5 seconds.

That's the overall picture I'm getting. That .5 seconds also occurs while they are both falling from the apex of their jumps making it even easier for KGB to track.

Less. This movie is ~330FPS and he's dead center 60 frames. It's between 1/5th and 1/6th of a second. That's what I meant with my above post....

Yeah, saw that, but Lethe obviously hasn't :)

you know, this is EXTREME slow motion, right? in-game, with the bot, this was done much faster..

thats the point, you stupid fucking moron.
the "OMFG HE GLUEDED THE XHAIR ON PENIS"-moment lasts for half a second in real time.

stupid fucking moron? so youre a frustrated virgin. tough.

i'll try the second time. you cant TRACK A PIXEL. get it? A PIXEL.

Edit: Entire second, btw.

what if you hit it by accident for half a second?

enemymodel consists of LOTS and LOTS of pixels. LOTS of pixels. you can hit a pixel, ofcourse. but it is not humanely possible to lock your mouse onto ONE PIXEL of an enemymodel, while it is moving, and to follow it with the exact same speed for a certain period of time. one second is a LOT in this situation.

We're not talking about one second.

I guess you need to get glasses, cause the crosshair is not on the same pixel all the time, it deviates downwards. Not much, but enough to call your "theory" a pile of shit.

you are aiming for a new vedic, or youre just bored so you talk shit even with that .avi around?

Edit: next time try to read more than two lines of text, even if its too much for your brain as it is. in that case you'll see that i never said it follows one dot for the entire length of the clip.

Raged by truth.

look at your own post for the word "second" and then try to realize what that means, then look at the clip again.
maybe try 10x zoom if your eyes fail you.

yes! thats true, its not 4 seconds, just around 1 second.

- and still a cheat, cause its impossible.

oh wow, how incredibly dense are you??


1. you said "second" replying to a post that mentions real time.
2. you repeated that saying that he tracks a single pixel for a second
3. I told you that he does not track the exact pixel all the time, where all the time obviously refers to the previously mentioned "second" not the entire clip.
4. you suddenly start talking about the entire clip.
5. I tell you again that I am talking about the same one second which was debated before.
6. you still don't get it.

look at your own post for the word "second"

1. its not impossible to track the enemymodel for 4 *seconds*

2. but it IS impossible to track the EXACT SAME PIXEL OF THE ENEMYMODEL for 4 *seconds*.

3. i'll try the *second* time. you cant TRACK A PIXEL. get it? A PIXEL.

4. Edit: Entire second, btw.


so i looked at my own posts for the word "second". being precise as you with that first reply surely leaves enough place to counter something that isnt really even important. but hey, isnt that the purpose of trolling?

and where exactly did I say it was possible to track it for 4 or only one second?

I am telling you its just a fraction of a second (in real time) before the corsshair moves to a diffrent pixel.
And I have been telling you that for the last three post but you are obviously unable to even grasp what i am saying. Regardless whether you agree or disagree.

no. in real time its not a fraction of a second. its not hard to look the timer when the crosshair centers on the enemymodel, and to see when that ends. its almost an *entire* second.

i just say that i think its not really possible to lock dead center like that for almost a second. simple.

it's not an entire second. wtf
go away...

I looked at the timer was a 1:42, then I stopped again when the crosshair moved just a little differently and alas it still was 1:42. So I took the times from my video player, and the timeframe was between 0:05 and 0:06, which is around 200ms in game time.

I suppose I should give you the exact frames because you concept of time seems somewhat jumpy.

nothing like germans getting anal. preach!

Video clip is slow motion. The 12 second clip covers like 2 seconds of actual gameplay. So if that aim lasts a whole second on the video.. that's ~180ms in real time...

It looks like a good player's automatic mouse drift coinciding for a split second...

automatic mouse drift? you realize that people aim by moving their mouse across a mat.. i've never had my mouse "automatically drift" pixel perfect on someone's junk for half a second and drop their 100/100 stack to 48h. i'm not saying it couldn't happen in some bizzaro universe where i just happen to aim exactly like a bot does every time i lose control on the map, but i feel that is highly unlikely.

i think you're a mouthpiece for kgb or some hacker desperately trying to make this look like it could be legit. this clip is by definition, showing what a bot does. it tracks dead center on the hitbox, and moves around with it.. anyone who has ever seen a bot can identify this. watch it in fast motion, it looks blatantly inhumanly locked on. he drops the enemy health from 100/100 to 48 in less than one second.. kgb used a bot in this demo, sorry. end of story.

whoa, mate. that's even better than xerp. i want that for my mg. :<

Do you realize that most people aim without consciously thinking about every tiny movement of their mouse? Ever heard of flick rails? I dunno about you but most of my air-rockets and flick-rails are automatic reactions. If you'd like a standing definition, I'm using “Without active thought” as defining “automatically,” it's the oldest cited definition on OED so I'm sure you won't mind.

Yes, watching the locked on mouse frame-by-frame, it did seem kind of odd, but look at the whole thing in perspective: it's 180milliseconds, it could be due to coincidence. I feel a coincidence from a good player is more likely than him turning on a hack for a split second in the middle of a gunfight. If you're saying it's a very clever aimbot, and he didn't need to toggle it on explicitly for that split second – I call bullshit, if it were so clever it wouldn't lock onto the center, it'd drift around the model.

I'm a mouthpiece for someone? Haha. Hardly. You can go dig me up on the warsow forums and see if I look like someone who acts as a mouthpiece... I watched it in fast motion, it looks perfectly natural if you watch it at gameplay speed.. at your 1/6th speed though.. it does look odd but as I've said before, I'm leaning toward coincidence.. give me some more examples and you'll see that argument fade away (maybe, I'll have to check some toxic/cooller/czm demos before I give that up).

Yes, watching the locked on mouse frame-by-frame, it did seem kind of odd, but look at the whole thing in perspective: it's 180milliseconds, it could be due to coincidence. I feel a coincidence from a good player is more likely than him turning on a hack for a split second in the middle of a gunfight. If you're saying it's a very clever aimbot, and he didn't need to toggle it on explicitly for that split second – I call bullshit, if it were so clever it wouldn't lock onto the center, it'd drift around the model.

That statement in bold I believe, after reviewing the tourney demos closely, is going to be very relevant in a minute.

Oh I see now.
kgb moving crosshair around model == aimbot.
kgb not moving crosshair around model == aimbot.

Agreed, he must be cheating.

who says i'm talking about kgb..

You implied that you're talking about kgb. Cheating, unless otherwise stated, seems to implicitly be about kgb in this thread. This entire thread is about evidence against kgb cheating. If you decided to switch and talk about another player, you were being unclear by not saying so!

It's nice to see that there are some on esr who haven't completely lost the ability to reason :)

oh, goddamn ... i can't wait.

btw, i posted the whole demo for everyone to see, why do you continually ignore that fact? this clip came from that demo, i could make other clips from that demo but you could just download the demo and go to the places i point out and do a timescale 0.2 and see the same shit, 5-6x obvious times in one demo, probably more that i can't really distinguish from normal aim.

like i keep saying, the tell-tale sign is the magnetic looking lock on the guy, like the crosshair latches on so hard and so tight it looks fake.. like a bot. i'm sick and tired of going over this with you. watch the demo http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661605

looks like someone shafting a guy going up a jump pad

agreed

automatic mouse drift? you realize that people aim by moving their mouse across a mat.

Actually, they don't. They aim by moving the mouse, strafing and not moving the mouse in the case of falling.
It's in the nature of strafe aiming that aim will be pixel perfect as long as both players strafe the same direction.

What happens in the demo is (or at least can be convincingly explained) the same effect, only on a vertical level. As vampire already mentioned, they are both jumping and falling at the same time. In order to keep the xhair on the enemy all kgb had to do was move the mouse on the enemy and then stop moving it altogether.
In fact, his aim is straight on one pixel only for about 2 1/2 shots and moves away from the center as soon as he hits the ground and has to adjust aim by mouse, exactly what you would expect.


I'm not saying that this video is proof that he didn't cheat. I'm just saying it's not very convincing, or even likely. You keep on claiming that the actual demo shows more of those instances. Show them, and we'll talk more.

/edit
just to make sure, no way I'm going through a demo timescaling

just to make sure, not way I'm going through a demo timescaling

Aww but you just need to watch it on timescale 0.4x as he says in his demo thread! You sure you don't have 40min to watch a slow-motion vq3 1v1 demo on q3dm6!??!!?

I thought he was accused of wallhack anyway?

he is.. i just brought out this demo because there are claims that kgb has never been caught botting before and i wanted people to see evidence of it.

Is this the only piece of evidence in the whole demo?

His shaft is totally sick throughout the whole demo, I bet 519 can find some pixel-locking :)

Tons of Euros have/had consistently sick shafts.

Fact is, the only bit of evidence he has provided so far is a 2 second clip of which about 100ms is considered to be him hacking.

well the demo showed quite suspicious LG use throughout

I'm not drawing any conclusions what so ever, however you should view the demo yourself. I know a lof of people have sick shafts, but I never thought "You're not suppose to do that.." before I view this demo.

Still, nothing is solid. And I haven't really view a LAN demo of KGB either so I have nothing to compare with.

It's up to the one accusing to provide all the evidence in a clear and obvious way.

He'd also need to compare it to numerous players on LAN as well as KGB on LAN before any credible conclusions could be made.

Basically I'm not viewing the demo because I don't need to and I've got better things to do with my time!

I'm still sticking to being neutral in this whole cheating accusation, as per fact his aim is sick from time to time, I really don't see this "locking on penis" apart from the split second in this clip.

That said, you posting on this site tells me you do have time for a 15min demo if this actually interests you ;o

I expect the demo is boring, he wants me to timescale at select moments and honestly I don't care if he cheats or nots untill evidence is provided in an easy way.

Posting takes like 30seconds by the way :)

One reply yes, but maybe I should've been more specific.. Meh.

You did seem interested enough to actually view the demo, that's all I'm saying, but then again, this demo, nor the ones from the Finals will get him "convicted" for cheating. It would simply add to your knowledge about the conversation :)

I'm really not interested enough to watch the demo :P

If I was I would have done so.

yeah ok :)
I just wanted to know if I've got things straight.

i played some quake live last week ...

I stod at MEGA @ dm6 and i guy jumped down to it from mid level, 100% percent LG , want me to make a clip of it.. i watched it with timescale 0.2 looks exactly LIKE the ones kgbs hits in your post......


DO IT CHEAT?

YES YOU DO (CLAN519)

Great, you did it one time vs some total newb in Qlive with totally unlagged lg.. now do it in a competition game cpma VQ3 vs a top player in his prime, and do it not just once but like 10x and each time destroy the other players stack, even in hard to aim situations. Try doing it like you see at 8:22 and 8:27
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661605
in that demo, where someone is running underneath you at mega and you drop down and just ream them with shaft that hits for about 80-85% While falling down and maintain that lock while they dodge. Please, do it.

Also mg someones health down from a bouncepad (like @ 1:45) where you literally do not miss a solitary bullet for like .75 seconds and win control of the map through it.

xerp my ass.

I can do it against you...
coz ur nothink

This is getting ridiculous.

p.S Someone with the time and incentive, get one of these superbots from that Italian guy who came here to brag about the one he made for q4, (chaotic or something??)and then make videos of what it looks like.

thanks for the drama moron. Nice read ... keep it coming! Back to work now.

Convincing evidence for the existance of Noah's ark.

go watch demos of games like et or rtcw where it's all about tracking aim on small body parts. Even mediocre players do stuff like that all the time.

Saddens me to hear that you can't do it yourself, though :(

What small parts are you talking about!? Keel's black!

ha :)

so like, does he cheat? cba reading all the crap.

most likely not, though 519 has managed to find a few suspicious frames after looking through the entire demo in slow motion 300 times.

one has to wonder tho. after all, he did beat walter.

:D:D
i miss you in this caterwaul. kgb cheat yes/no?

1. was ist ein caterwaul?
2. no idea, prolly another walter

rumgeheule oder rumgejaule. whine ...
sounds fancier tho.

caterwauling in English - didn't know the word exists in German even though it is probably of German origin

erm, it doesn't. my intention was to use the english word 'caterwaul', because i think it has a nice sound to it. :)

oh .. i stand corrected then :P

i have yet to see evidence of walter cheating. i think that's about as much a load of crap as this is tbh.

you won't see them in this demo cause they didn't cheat in this game, obviously.
and btw, I still need evidence that sombra cheats. from a demo of course.

there's some demo of sombra vs firebot where it's quite obvious he's wallhacking if nothing else.

no I watched that one, nothing there.

Maybe thats because you have no clue what to look for? yet you and the crowd of morons on here want to flame up esr with your self-proved baseless and useless opinions in the matters of cheating.

Come back when you can actually contribute something to support your argument. Idiot.

oh I agree, I'm a total newb when it comes to cheating.

that's why you will contribute to this site with demo times from that particular game that definitely prove the use of a cheat. or more likely make some generic reply which will make you look like a complete bellend, but you already know that right?

first of all, all of you cheater cries should decide what cheats they are actually using. Either one that sticks to the target or one the moves away a little so it won't be detected.

and only then you can start providing convincing proof.

and only after that you get to demand arguments from us.

not a second earlier, got it?

About sombra, didn't he get caught because he uploaded a screenshot where it was apparent he had a cheat running?

edit: I mis-read the different posts/answers, my bad.

yes.

see the pattern?

"apparent" not "suspicious"

idiot.

coming from you that's a compliment.

still waiting for those demo times/videos ty.

NA scene delivers

I want to practice against Walter and KGB, so I can get really good! Like Spartie!

DID SOMEONE SAY DRAMA?

wtf is this shit?

poor is jealous of kgbs achievements

utter balls

this whole 2v2 tournament was pretty lax. I didn't even have to try to put in the effort to show anything hack like. I'm ashamed to let the euros think that we think 'this' is good aim when I was just walking around railing people not really showing much. Anyone that thinks I cheat, get your head out of your ass. There are bigger mountains to climb and at least 30 people out there that aim better than I do that don't cheat.

While I finish up my 6 pack of new castle that I purchased to celebrate my victory over my q3 2v2 oppressors. I'd like to add:

Anyone with ill-will towards me, I'll be walking over your corpse in quakelive soon and I hope it makes you punch your desk when I drop a 50 LG on you.

Peace bitches.
Thanks again to all my supporters.


[20:06:48] <{DFM}drp> this clan519/jfw519 guy reminds me of those people that sees jesus's face in a loaf of bread

QL is even easier to cheat in, so don't be surprised when they cry cheat there, too.

Yeah, you're so amazing at q3 that you don't even have to try to beat the best NA players online like it's no-think. Now go to a LAN and beat chance by 20 1v1.

Please, you're so good online, I have to believe that you are legit with your botty ass crosshair glue online that you can show the same insanely accurate tracking in a LAN game vs the same people.

And lets not forget your other legit teammates, Napalm3d and pyro. I want to see them at a lan tourney too, doing the same ridiculous bot-like model tracking without even trying.

I really hope Qlive proves you to be legit and unquestionably the best aimer q3 has _ever_ seen, even through the ground after you get railed. http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1664282

he's not the best aimer ever. watch some pro-demos.

yep, toxic was more dangerous in osp of all netcodes.. everybody in/from that time would agree..

toxic shits down kgb's hacking throat, without a bot, any day of the week.. but since you are his teammate, you should know that.

just watch any demo of toxic and try to find one time where he looks like kgb (crosshair sticks dead center to model, fine tracks it with little or no overaiming left or right). just one. tell me where it is and i'll make a movie of it and shut up and this whole thing will be over. it can even be a gtv demo.

"just watch any demo of toxic and try to find one time where he looks like kgb"

...now THATS solid evidence eh? huh. Maybe they have different playstiles GENIUS.

I dont see kgb/walter spamming the site, and they were robbed. Meanwhile youre trying to brainwash the little community that survived esr bug-o-rama, in the name of.. What? Why? Makes me think... smells fishy

okay try and find a demo of ANYONE top tier legit shooting with their crosshair locked on someone in the manner i have tirelessly described but must describe again, CROSSHAIR NEAR CENTER OF MODEL, MOVING IN PERFECT UNISON WITH THE MODEL IN A VERY TIGHT TRACE PATTERN THAT IS HIGHLY BOT-LIKE IN APPEARANCE. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A BOT AIMS LIKE THIS WILL NOT MAKE SENSE. SORRY FOR THAT. REALLY, I AM.

okay try and find a demo of ANYONE top tier legit shooting with their crosshair locked on someone in the manner i have tirelessly described

Or how about you show one that isn't.

<3

Dude, it honestly seems like YOU don't know how an aimbot works. Aimbots produce a certain type of flicking mechanism that instantly SNAPS to the target, doing most of the aiming for you. The best (privately coded multi-hacks allowing the user to configure the accuracy he or she wants to achieve) of the best produce this flick. KGB's aim doesn't do this.

The "crosshair near center of model, moving in perfect unison w/ the model in a very tight trace pattern that is highly bot like in apperance" can be achieved by using a fucking sensitivity script or external mouse driver configuration tool (a few ppl used these in RTCW/ET due to m_pitch and m_yaw restrictions, that prevented players from configuring their mouse settings to lock their xhair at centerview).

You seem really confused...I would do some more research about aimbots and how they are coded before I made myself look like a complete tool all over ESR.

NAPALM IS NOT DFM YOU FUCKIN IDIOT.

STOP SAYING THAT HE IS.

oh and pyro has gone to lans.



clueless fuck.

I'll see you at Quakecon and see how hard you rape Chance on lan. Look on the bright side, you have 6 months to prepare to play legitimate 1v1 for the first time in your life.

Walter I expect to see the same from you since you are also this amazing online wonder.

DJWHEAT: "wait on the prizes and lets see these guys do it at quakecon"
I hope they do.

Since you'll be there, you should play him yourself.

play kgb and upload the demo here. please.

Yeah! On LAN!

here's footage of Daigo actually angry!

heheh nixe

It's a mvd taken from a gtv. Packets get lost over gtv and q3 extrapolates last known position and then corrects once new info is received.

If you want to use timescale 0.1 videos such as the one you uploaded as evidence of cheating it cannot be a gtv demo.

I'm not saying kgb cheats or not, just that your evidence is invalid by default when it's timescaled gtv.

what i said.. http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1664351#pid1664351

As if I read every post made by the grey blob of wannabe near-the-top-but-never-made-it-like-z4-czm American players that seem to be more worried about accusing each other of cheating than playing.

oh, and please for the love of gd use cg_brasstime 0. newb cfg makes baby jesus cry :=

You're like Kliman in P. Roth's novel "Exit Ghost'. And I leave it with that.

Deep!

Throat!

Double!

Click!

doing it right?

y ruin? :(

nerd.

He doesn't cheat, his aim is good ^^

Oh that's what it is

Ah, good old times.

haha yeah, it seems Europe is much better at dealing with cheats than America.

haha yeah, it seems Europe is much better at dealing with everything than America.

fixed.

bump

Can't believe I never got to meddle in this shitstorm:(

and your opinion counts on this how exactly? the quake knowledge or skill to spot a cheater probably isn't your strong point.














(relax those furious fingers, just prodding!)

ouch gg

You completely jammed Jamerio, preemptively winning the battle. Well done.


















(relax those furious fingers, just truthing)

so is kgb a cheater or not?

He's been accused for a long time, since Q3. Online he hits 50 lg 60 rail ect ect...
At lan he always performs sub par against people he generally destroys.
Everyone else performs better on lan or the same as online at least.
He says it's "nerves"
Who knows.

if it is nerves beta blockers can fix that. pretty sure some lan players take them because they practically eliminate performance anxiety

really? sounds very unhealthy

I know at least a couple more players who perform better online.

If everyone would perform better at LAN than online, how would we know? It's just natural that some players have an advantage here or there.

It's the stark contrast between online and lan play. A complete 180.

Online:q3 god hits insane shit. incredible enemy/map awareness.

lan: sucks dick lol.

z4 cheats online, did you see his game vs chance, totally surprised, outaimed and stuff, it's not like this was his first lan either

actually, z4 is one of the most dominant players in quake history, so it doesn't really matter.

on the other hand, who the fuck is kgb?

lol on that file he's mg'ing a guy on a jumppad. Solid proof

fucking cheater.

cheat