Memento s got it.

Cool stats!

quake science lord memento does it again
hope these results are as unsurprising to devs as the rest of us

wish there was a section with a list of things that need fixing and adding*, asking you to order them by importance to you, would be really interesting to see

*like performance optimization, netcode optimization, balance (champions/weapons/everything), crosshairs, matchmaking, gametypes, skins/lootbox stuff, f2p launch, demo function and so on and so on

I jumped the gun there, assuming that's work that is already somewhat through down the pipeline. They keep saying they know about the issues and will fix them, so I think we just need to be patient.

yeah they mostly know what needs to get done for sure, just curious about their priorities vs community's (vs my own, like clearly nobody wants f.e. crosshairs as badly as me :c )

i do, railing without dot is hampering AF

its ok to let go

Pretty accurate, wd MM. :)

Too bad only 250~ people participated, I hope this is enough for the developers to hopefiully change the course a litttle bit in what direction they are going.

The form is still active. I spent the afternoon writing a script to get my pie charts, so now I can re-generate quickly. Realistically though, I think 250 players of whom 70% are veterans is already a good sample of the population.

I, for one, gave up trying to fill the from because the effort it takes (it's one long-ass questionnaire!) is disproportionate to my (non-existent) hope that the game will be fixed.

Error: You have already judged this post

Rounds make blowout less frustrating because they are short

32% agree/strongly agree with this but I dont get it?

If the guy is a competent player but you are undoubtedly better, the game can still take like 15 minutes because the maps are huge and people play so defensively and youre waiting in between rounds and its just a slow slog

You'd have to be a competent player playing against someone who is literally brand new and who cant strafe jump to be able to end the game really quick. 10 minutes is the absolute maximum timelimit for a stomp in QL and even then people GG early. I never get people giving early GGs in QC because no "/forfeit" I guess

Really interesting stats though, nice work

I think the idea is that if the difference is such that one player would just die hopelessly, the match can be over very soon.

I think that can be addresses in a 10min duel as well, with a grace fraglimit, or similar solutions.

I think the idea is that if the difference is such that one player would just die hopelessly, the match can be over very soon.

Sure, but as this shouldnt happen because there should be a matchmaking system. But I agree, a mercy limit in a 10 minute game would be a nice middle ground

These long slow rounds and 25 minute duels have created more harm than good. If new players are being decked in 5 minutes instead of 10 then thats nice, but for the average player the experience is worse and so is the spectator experience. It gets really exhausting to watch

Not only that, but brand new players typically dont come to duel anyway. They play one of the team modes or FFA, so I dont think making this change with new players in mind is even necessary

"Too bad only 250~ people participated,"

That's half of the active player population?

first of, thanks for this, but I would disagree with:

- People are not happy with the current duel. They would like to see the 3 frag limit removed in favor of a timelimit, and map control and positioning to be more important than they are right now.


that. I hated QL for what it rewarded. esp when they shifted LG back to 6, and evil still nearly still raped rapha. My gripe with duels always been that at the very highest level in QL, it was all about rockets and running away. If you want to make that the game mode, thats fine, but that's not something i'm very interested in playing b/c it isn't fun. In that sense, I think QC's done a better job of making it more of an open game and it's harder to figure out with all the champions and balance and its a more aim intensive game and quake is a FPS first, and everything else after and I think its important to not lose track of that.

Do you disagree with the data showing that people think that, or you disagree with their thinking?

As for your explanation, I think the defensive nature of QL came mostly down to maps having multiple choke points, and the hitbox / movement speed making it completely suicidal to try and force your way in. Regardless of the mode rules, in QC you can enter rooms more easily, if that's what you want, so I would expect duel to be more dynamic in that sense, even if the format was identical to QL (with some form of champions pick). Maps could also be adapted if needed (see how wider the rocket area is in blood covenant compared to campgrounds).

I just don't think a 10 minute/no frag limit duel mode is going to attract a large player-base ever again. There are lots of options for it which are free, and excellent, yet the mode is dead.

You can flip the argument and wonder if a different duel format would have made any difference for those titles.

I disagree with the thinking. It confines you to playing a certain way, rather than playing quake for what it is... a video game. I think fps ability should be highly regarded when compared to anything else in this game and I think QC did that a little bit. Quake is the most difficult fps I've played and Ive gone back to every other fps and they've been a 1000x easier. regardless the franchise.

Personally, performance is my biggest gripe. Quake's always pushed the boundaries in terms of performance (QL was first game truly played at 144hz with great game speed and not feeling clunky in any way) Why its lacking in this game is a mystery.

I think there are better ways to make quake less defensive without doing what QC has done. Besides, QC has become a really defensive game with a lot of rocket spam and waiting for enough damage before attacking

Quake 4 was a high fragging non defensive game without having to be one dimensional or as uninteresting as QC duel has become. I think thats partly because of all the 3 item maps. Partly because of the restrictive ammo system making it hard to get comfortable in control. And partly because of the high damage weapons

But map control, resource management and incontrol/out of control play was still interesting and important alongside aim (as proven by toxs dominance)

QC is trying to achieve the same thing, but while also trying to make duel easier and this clash of goals has just made a not very interesting duel mode that is tiring to watch and not very fun to play

Timelimit and emphasis on map control dont make a game boring by default.

It's about having good balance between aim/damage and items.
In q3 going full aim, playing risky or setting up smart traps all worked out pretty well quite often.
Ql's nerfed damage and huge max ammo played out in favor of safe item play full of spam and thats why people have been playing ql duel the same way since 2010. Its all about executing the one strategy right than having a variety of styles.

I think it's more entertaining for everyone if players have plenty of options how to outplay their opponents.

^^^^^

Thanks, great questionnaire!

I Wonder how much would results be skewed if we posted this to beth forums or reddit :D

I posted it on reddit. I missed the bethesda one though!

edit: posted on bethesda as well.

Nice to have a visualized representation of the community's feelings like this. Good job, but GL getting the devs to take any notice.

10mn duel is already too long. I want 7 or 8mn max.

Are you kidding ? It's exausting !

I'd say the best Duel format would be to chose 1 champion each, and then the first player to hit his oponent once with any weapon wins the match. That way, we could see much more matches on stream and open competitions for many people.

Never compromise. Only classic mode.

- no abilities (neither active nor passive)
- same starting health & no health caps
- same classic movement, no speed cap, no initial jump acceleration
- 35/25 sec item re-spawns
- classic items (hp, armor, weapons)
- same hitbox
- ability to set enemy model & skin
- picmip

I don't care about QC in its current state. Its not interesting for me to play it. And its extremely boring to watch.

Real masterpiece of FPS scene exists since 1999.
Deathassda just needed to give it newer graphics (for spectators and new-comers), fix netcode, and make good financing.
But what they did resulted in a failed attempt to reinvent a bike with all budget put into Tim's black hole.

Wow... just go back to playing QL

That's what a quarter of the participants is doing. I'm not sure being dismissive is the right thing.

We don't care about his attitude on the issue. : D

that 25% is probably dependent on when you took the poll. Also those 25% could also include people with shit pc's. I mean this game makes an enormous performance leap in terms of hardware requirement when compared to its predecessor. similar to quake 4.

I think the reason most people CURRENTLY aren't playing is because of the last patch and not because the game's ideas are terrible. This is only my assumption from what the ppl in my discord channel are saying (11 of em qualified for the NA regional and are all now playing fortnite LOLZ). So I think that 25% may be lower if the game was more playable/had more people playing because of it being fixed and all.

As for playing QL because its more fun or whatever, i would probably disagree with these purists on the same merit that if QL performance = QC performance, we see WAY more ppl in QC

Because most console peasants won't get annoyed at Obscurefest 2017. )

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ye and 5 guyz dominating duel for the last 8 years in QL was fun, something had to give.

tru

i think its interesting to see games where players trying to beat the number 1. its the length of the period a player dominates that creates mysteries and names. ever changing names only leave confusion and fuzzyness. its hard to follow and seems random. its hard to find an explanation why a player is better than the others because just in the next tourney it could be someone else. who to watch out for if the results are unpredictable. every time you need to learn to love a new player. the relationships are more superficial. no real love. no real heros. no real names. its difficult to call somebody a god because to be able to call somebody a god she or he needs to be unbeatable, at least for a significant amount of time to proof himself worthy of being called a god. Ever changing heros will are more like shooting stars. Shining hell but only for a short amount of time. like they are not able to climb to the top and stay there. i guess its better for the business if there are a lot of shooting stars than just a few gods.

so it's better to have a broken ass random game rather than have the most skilled and most involved players win again

The fact that you can't predict who's going to win a tournament should be the result of a big and healthy scene. Not because the game is random in the first place.

that is true and would be ideal. ... lets hope QC will be as close to that as we hope.

My question then is, if the game is still in early access, closed for f2p, but you can buy it for 30bucks, will there be alot of new players when the game will be fully released? And then will there be enough of new buyers to rate the game success? ... hence getting big and healthy scene? (have in mind the game will be optimal by then).

no, let's all just wait for Diabotical.

Let's all just play QL.

I can understand the reasoning for round based duel and still think it's a better system for casuals. Also i can understand why they fixed the lg cus it was a bit op but i don't like how it's a big rocket fest now. ql had a better weapon balance than this game.They should fix the netcode.

Also round based makes duel a whole lot more boring to spectate now.

How can people say positioning is not important when it's the only thing that matters?

You find yourself in the better position, one rocket and it's done. It's really, really hard to out-LG someone when they started 1-2 second earlier.

Or to out-rocket someone when they got the first 80 dmg and you got only 150 hp at best.

Tbh I like 3 limit champion more than timelimit as I got use to watch / play like that. I just hope this will not be changed, but the majority of people would like this to be changed :/

I would even delete the 5 minute timelimit that make people play +back like there is no tomorrow.

When reached the 5 min-mark you can use your ability just once, take every item just one (then they will not respawn again), so to make the game a lot more fast-paced.

Personally, i voted against the 3 champion limit, but i dont want to return to the 10 minutes timelimit without any fraglimit at all.

I would leave it as it is now. 3 rounds each 5 minutes, but i would change the 3 champs limit to 5. That would be much more intense.

Actually, i would gladly play the qc with this setup every day - well, not the current version, ofc, the final release, with the way more maps, optimization and better netcode. Something that would be at least 80% as smooth as QL was.

Yes, I was skeptical about it at the start, but now I think it's not that bad.

I just don't like the +back and hiding mechanism. They should give items more value, so that matters more taking them or not. This will encourage people to fight more, because if they miss an important item they will get destroyed in next fight.

Are you hiding with Sorlag? If Slash can get 2 items has more HP than you and can force an attack even in the chokepoint.

I would even add more timed items (like powerups, but way less powerful) to shake the game. Like more dmg, so that if you are hiding with Sorlag I may have same HP with Slash but more dmg.

You will need to fight, fight and fight. You may hide, but you will need to do it for a short amount of time and will be forced to think about the next item, because you can't miss another one.

And I would do it with the proper powerups even in Sacrifice, two at a time so that one powerup may counter the other one.

We - as spectators - may follow the people with powerups doing incredibile things, quad damage vs protection, dashing powerup vs haste, invisibility vs regeneration etc.

I know that it may sound blasphemous to most quakers, but we need to appeal to a larger community and the game is not funny enough atm.

Circle items and shooting few times is not that funny in Quake Champions.

It was funny on Aerowalk where you had 30 frags in 10 minutes, but watching vo0 hiding with Sorlag on ZTN was really painful. No action at all.

I just don't like the +back and hiding mechanism. They should give items more value, so that matters more taking them or not. This will encourage people to fight more, because if they miss an important item they will get destroyed in next fight.

good reasoning

I would even add more timed items (like powerups, but way less powerful) to shake the game. Like more dmg, so that if you are hiding with Sorlag I may have same HP with Slash but more dmg.

i like that. game is already flashy in a weird way when having a rocket fight and then start to run with fists straight to the enemy while have red toned colors on the screen and metal music in the headphones.

2 rounds with 5 champs (you can use sarge up to 3 times, if u haven't the full pack, or enough rented champs, which will be rare)

That will do.

However, 3 rounds feel a little more justified.

I guess atm we just got tired too soon of these endless 3-rounded BO5 because of everybody's playing the same 3 champs the same 1 way. On the same 4 maps.

If we will see some brand new maps, with 5 champs to play in each the round and thus some new styles of play i could imagine 3 rounds would be gud. But 2 or 3 is okay with the bigger numbers of champs anyway.

what i personally liked VERY MUCH in the proposed changes:

- hp&ammo increase. liek, 10%.
- more champions to play in each round (4 or better 5)
- items and/or abiblity stops respawning/recharging for you after 5 minute's mark.
- balancing current champs (buff scale, bj and visor, nobody plays them)
- balance the weapons properly - make lg at least stronger than mg on mid distance. nobody wants to watch these awkward doomslayer mating season ritual jumps on one place.

debugging, netcode fixing and perfomance optimization are "hygiene conditions", ofc.

I like too some of these, probably the not so drastic ones:

- items and/or abiblity stops respawning/recharging for you after 5 minute's mark.

this is very important. Something has to be done with the overtimes. Games as it is now can take even more than half an hour per map (crazy!!)

balance the weapons properly - make lg at least stronger than mg on mid distance. nobody wants to watch these awkward doomslayer mating season ritual jumps on one place.

this is a must too. the more weapons u can choose depending the situation, the better. I think that most of us agree that the main weapons must be at least 3 and not 1 and a half, like they r now (rl and rg).

hp&ammo increase. liek, 10%.

I am not sure, if that will work against +back. More stack means longer fights and probably bigger window for escaping. I would prefer slightly more stack, but a little bigger hitboxes as well. It is more fun when u can do damage, hit rails, midis and see 7s in the screen. Might help if mega and armor where giving more than they currently do, so that control would had been more important.

more champions to play in each round (4 or better 5)

again, I am not sure if that will help against the constant running and hiding, but it will most probably make the duels more fun and exiting

fixing the weapons and netcode is the most important to me, followed by shortening somehow the overtimes.

ps: about balance, I feel like it isn't that bad. anarki and in lesser extent slash are a bit annoying, but doom seems to somewhat work as a counter pick. What I would suggest is the ability to ban one champion, before the picking starts. that way the players who hate anarki and those who hate doom, will be happy and it will also discourage one champion players

Yeah, see what you mean.

What about hp&ammo increase, i do believe that it will work in pair with the champs per round increase. If the value of the items will arise so will the reward for fighting for them and punishment for ignoring them. And with 5 champions instead of 3 you will have more chances of overtaking the control, it will be more profitably to fight for them then ignoring them and playing this awful "hobo" style as agent calls it.

At the end it will favor slightly more aggressive and item-based game instead of voo's famous ztn partisan's tactiks with lizard.

How can "we mostly agree" that Sacrifice is fun to play, if only 37% of those who took the survey actually think so. You are bad at math, aren't you?

More people agreed sacrifice is fun to play than disagreed is what I think he means by that

No he's right, that statement was too strong given the data.

I find I have the patience for the devs to continue to patch the various issues and am open to the new duel format, the thing I find most frustrating is the lack of customization they have decided to allow.

I think it has always been part of quake's life blood to allow individual players to use the console and their configs to completely customize the game, including visuals like picmip, full bright etc etc

I realize this could be confusing for new players watching a stream that would make the game look completely different than the stock settings, and could give certain 'advantages' as far as visibility to players who know certain settings vs players who might not be using the settings, but THAT IS QUAKE.

Removing the ability for hardcore quake players to customize the game in this way (which we've been doing since QW) because it could discourage new players is a huge mistake imo. And the idea that players want to use the console only to gain some sort of advantage is misdirected, the same joy players of other games get with their weapon skins etc etc I get from customizing the console commands in a million different ways

I think this is the single biggest mistake the devs have made.

oh and thank you for putting this all together

This. And the shitlol engine.

The amazon cloud and hero bs comes after these.

QC duel is trying go get close to your enemy through jumping and then shooting with rockets while the opponent jumps away. there is this special jumping technique which you have to learn and players who can do it will be double as fast as without. To gain a little advantage you can pick up special items which will increase hitpoints for a short amount of time. Also you have a special ability from time to time which heals you or makes you invisible for example. Other than that it is jumping around the map while trying to get close but not to close to your oppononent. And when you are hurt you have to jump away search items which restore your hitpoints. So its a lot of jumping. Exhausting for the fingers. And you have to move the mouse really fast. Aim really fast. Its very hard to hit the opponent.

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P11L6Ul239c

Sums it up pretty nicely, but the warplagging chopfest is not stressed enough.

haven't had the patience to play since the previous bad patches. will come back when they make dramatic fixes. game just was not as fun and did not offer the replay value that previous quakes have provided in the past.