and then everyone on ESR thought uk.Deus was organising something

I thought the same when I was reading this first time

same haha

If he was, the tournament would start approximately 5 hours late.

and everyone would go to the store halfway in the middle

rename it to rebels tdm 4v4 for fun cup
no need to explain why...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AxqjhhfIwg

Great news!

Thanks deus!

no but seriously, nice to see some tdm cups.

I know this is a bit off topic but what the hell happened with 2v2 tdm?
I'm a bit new to the QL scene but from what i remember 2v2 was always very popular in q3, drawing in both the tdm and duel players. Even in the last days of q3 (2008-2009) 2v2 pickups were still played many times on a daily basis and many of the online duel tournaments also featured a 2v2 tournament often with the same players signed up for the duel tournament pairing up.

Now I'm sure 2v2 tdm isn't completely dead but I can't remember the last time I've seen a stream or VOD of a 2v2 tournament. So how do you guys explain 2v2 tdm's rapid decline?

2v2 is a niche gametype if I understand it right.

Duellers prefer duel or 4v4.
TDMers consider 2v2 a bi-duel, not as tactical and map controlling as 4v4.

The only reason why I miss 2v2 TDM tournaments is this

not as tactical and map controlling? lol wut

Some TDM players claim that there's less emphasis on map control in 2v2 - feel free to correct me, I wouldn't know why is that since I'm not into this gametype

Map control is everything in 2on2 tdm.

So what makes 4v4 so much more popular?

easy mode

everyone can get kills there. lots of players flat out refuse to play 2on2, it can be unpleasant sometimes :d

it probably has a lot to do with 20 min TL and not being spectator friendly.

2v2 can easily become rapefest, in duels it doesn't matter because it's only 10 min

I don't think you should compare it to duel because in duel you can get weapons even when you're playing out of control.

I never really liked 2v2 but I'm a big fan of 4v4.

I never really liked 2v2 but I'm a big fan of 4v4.

That's cool and I respect that - I prefer 4v4 myself from a spectator's point of view.

The question is, WHY do you like 4v4 more

especially vs u ;)

Yup, that's why I hate 2v2. At least in 4v4 the other 3 players can carry me, and I can do -30 net and still win.

positioning, mapcontrol, item timing, teamwork, aim, its all more important in 2v2 than 4v4, ppl in 4v4 nowadays are to stupid for that

I didn't know that and I'm glad you corrected me.

Now I'm generally interested in knowing why people prefer 4v4 over 2v2.

Do you really think it's because players are "stupid"?
I know CA is popular because it's a brainless spamfest, but I consider (or did consider) TDM 4v4 to be just as brainy as duel if not more in some cases

TDM 4v4 was really brainy, on maps like dm14, osp5, but nowadays aim is getting more important so its not as brainy as 2v2 or duel. I mean maps like dm20 started TDM for QL and look what kind of differents 4v4 TDM in QL is with Q3A. Dm20 is just brainless aiming and thats it.

Different maps promote different skillsets, those maps are not as brainy as people always try to suggest. I disagree that aim is becoming "more" important, it's the same as it has always been. What do you expect in a first person shooter? It's a fundamental skill that will always be a limiting factor in how good you are or can be. We can see the success of teams like 102 is not solely dependant on their ability to aim.

DM20 is brainless aiming if you choose it to be, same as any other map. If you want to approach games in such a way you can certainly be successful to an extent, but what happens when you play people who aim at the same level as you? If your gameplan was literally just to turn up and aim then you're about to get incredibly frustrated when it unravels and you have no alternative approach.

I don't know what era of Q3 you're comparing to QL, but, CPMA VQ3 was just as aim based as QL is now, because the netcode allowed it. OSP certainly had a different way of playing, this was entirely dictated by the netcode.

It seems to me that some games that included to tdm players and to 2v2 teams ended with something like 60:-2 scores.
Tell me how exactly is that even considered fun to play in 20 minutes? :)

I know it can be fun when played casual. But on a serious level iut usually isn't very enjoyable, at least for most players.

I've recently played some 2v2, had some fun, don't know how to play the maps played in 2v2. It was fun because I wasn't faced with 20 minutes of:
Noctis/zyv or link1n/winz , pavel/421 combos for 20 minutes on a small map like ztn.

/// chubz

2v2 requires more aim than 4v4. in 4v4 you can hit your lousy 27percent acc, and still win a combat due to better positioning. 2v2 maps are usually small, so it's becoming more aim based, neither positioning imho

I guess that's true, the more players, the more FFA-ish it feels.

2v2 and 4v4 maps differ in average size but have same amount of items. Typically 1 weapon more on a 4v4 map (second SG, second RL), with same amount of armor and health (dm6 has no mega? Same for dm14).

But instead of 8 people, you have only 4 for the same reasources. That changes things tremendously:


4v4 is about controlling weapons. Weapons give frags.

2v2 is about controlling armor/health. Weapons give armors, armors give frags.


In 4v4 you control areas (read: someone stays and camps).

In 2v2 you run items.


In 4v4 you can take over area with MG cess. You can also defend area with 4 MGs and get weapons from enemy.

In 2v2 being out of control is the same as in duel. Hide and seek, +back rockets.


That's why 2v2 is "duel with a mate" and 4v4 is "TDM".


I disagree with you about spectator-friendliness though. 2v2 is definitely more spec friendly because you generally can see more of the "big picture".

4v4 desperately needs "team overlays" (health bars + weapon) for both teams on sides of the screen, in style of CS/MOBA streams + configurable cameras (so casters can bind buttons to map positions and click for quad room cam, red room cam, you know).

2v2 is easier to cover with what we have already (we basically have tools to cover duel and duel only, although even duel would benefit for enemy health bar).

Yes i think you are right.. And i totaly like your proposal concerning this spec thing in 4on4.. Would be really nice to have teamoverlays and especially those bindable cam positions.. Did you allready suggest this in the ql forum or anywhere an id guy could see it?

There is a 2v2 tourney one or two times a month. But organisers don't bother to announce those events everywhere :( Here, check this out: http://team102.ru/trophy/tdm - 2v2, 2v2, 2v2, 2v2...

no dm20 fuck yeah

In this plusfest : Players with no aim

why limbus ?

Adroits mappool

since its for fun cup, why should the mapool be so official ? ok, still its not my buisness

damn right, it's not your business!
ql = serious stuff!

Since its a for fun cup, why not play the latest
addition to the tdm-mappool, which IS alot of
FUN to play?

"FOR FUN" in the name and no dm20 in the mappool - liars.

Yep, it's false advertising at its most blatant.

clans was more than we knew about deus Players 2005th is now called RBLS sites now used: D! Otherwise mapool is ok by me

clans was more than we knew about deus Players 2005th is now called RBLS sites now used

nigga wat

It's czenglish :D
Karby, I bet you would have nice talks with pastorq. :D

the universe would explode.

:DDD

or hawr1x :)

eastern european attempts towards english
quake wouldnt be the same without it - in memory of young cooller

Bulat wannabe.

You fail though, I can understand it! Translation: the clan was older than our knowledge of deus, the player (2005). It's now called RBLS but we continue to use the old site. Map pool suits me, so I use it in my cup.

looking for team/mix for the cup! - /msg killalot @ QuakeNet :)

added schedule... was about time !!!

wow, so many teams, looks great! will there be a stream?

edit: http://www.twitch.tv/sadlytv

good stuff. well organised ( both semis were streamed ). thx!

Thx karby / brejk for event !

Thank you all for coming: D

http://www.quakehistory.com/en/tournaments/0,208 :>

is there a vod of the final? (except those fews minutes by sadly)

sadly has few rounds + 3rd place game on : http://www.twitch.tv/sadlytv/b/335441948

kry streamed gangnam vs planB : http://www.twitch.tv/kryty or youtube.com/thkry

GG.ru streamead GRAND FINAL : http://www.own3d.tv/TeamEmpire/video/840996

aka03 stream : 1aka03 http://www.own3d.tv/aka03/video/840691 cze-mamut 1 map

aka03 http://www.own3d.tv/aka03/video/840746 te-gangnam 2nd map

great effort man, much obliged!

was fun