to answer the headline: good mappers are needed ;)

Best maps in the mappools at the moment are imo Monsoon and Galang. A new map could be a little bigger but it shouldnt get too open. Railgun shouldnt be much harder to reach like in monsoon. Maybe you could do a good map without rail, so we dont have to play f'cking phrantic anymore.

some armour

maps like monsoon and placebo without railgun

yeah a lg only game is fun fun fun :/

an lg+rl game is much more fun than an instagib duel like most Q4 games look like in any case. Can't understand how the fuck can so many people whine at LG while it requires so much more skill than RG and is so much more easy to counter (read : not overpowered, as opposed to RG).

doesnt require more skill, just different.

Well in my very humble opinion, it's harder to keep track of someone dodging and shooting at you (because with LG you can't shoot from the other side of the map, right), than to use RG in most situations (that is, close combat excepted). LG requires you to get close to your opponents, RG doesn't. And it shows in most Q4 duels. =/

Rail whores(like me:) abuse the railgun because they are allowed to.
Rail only games most often end with the rail whore defeated. Furthermore rail whores abuse the rail because they have nothing else to do. It is skill to predict when the enemy is going to pull out his rail. And besides, the game is the same for everyone. There are really boring rail only games that's a fact, but this is not always the case and it certainly isn't a reason for complaints.

As for the topic, new maps are needed, obviously. I think that it would be very exciting if there were, say, 10 or more really good maps. That's what gives life to our game of choice.
^ Imo of course :P

well yeah but the problem is that noone never really uses the RL (because its slow,yeah) instead its just LG vs LG, wich is boring to me and the reason i don't like Q4...

fooki fucked me up using rl vs lg aaaaall the time. its a matter of skill. rl is devastating!

i didnt mean a pro vs noob match... he would probably kill you even if he had mg...

lukrek is dm6 pro (only)

Ok? That's it? Zzz :/ More stuff folks!

Talked a bit on irc, and I've gotten some suggestions to try a tri-atrium(dm6) or dual atrium(ztn has 2.5-ish) style map. Thoughts?

I want thinking, wanna get cracking on this layout!

A tri-atrium map would be nice with 4 items (like ztn). It is needed if one wants to have a bigger diversity of styles.

anything thats not smalled and cramped and actually flows for more than two jumps! could a map work without shaft and rail?

good luck, make a good map =D

q4dm6ztn

dm13 plz

how about q4dmsuckmydickcuzimanoobanddunnohowtolearnnewmapssoiwannaplaytheoldshit ?

@draven and skint

?????????????????????????????????

-Harder to reach RailGun like @ dm6

-Bigger maps , but not that much or it will make no spawn frags(no fun ;)

-good design is important( i liked grass @ monsoon :D )

Grass doesnt belong in Quake, but in Super Mario World. Go play some Nintendo. ;)

go find a girlfriend , punk!

he is right. the grass suck. should be replaced by ganja. quake + grass = stupid

haha, if there was a ganja map i would start playing q4 again :DD:D:D:D:D

anal justice + anything at all = non-existence.

Creativity which exceeds the bullshit standard protocol maps made these days and some quality athmosphere. I want pentagrams and skulls ffs!

well i like q4 mappool more than old q3 one but i'd love to see some bigger map where it's harder to find the opponent when he's hiding.
+ more tactic ones

edit: it's funny how my opinion changes =) 2 month ago this was what i was thinking, now it's a bit different. a year ago my idea of an ideal map was Phrantic. and six years ago it was q3dm17...

So you want a map where's it easy to hide? That would be one snoozefest of a map =\

naaaaaah i know that's boring...
what we need is some new architecture and REALLY new style of maps.
i don't like hiding but i don't like when you know exacly where the opponent is all the time. at this point q3 maps are better.

Aircontrol, instant weapon switches, reduced rail damage, and tiered armors.

--------------------------------------------------------


Hate starts here

q4w?

Already here in the face of CPMA :) Wonder if they'll be CPMA for Q4...

Hey voodoochopstiks, I think something that is lacking in most competitive dueling maps in quake4, is fluidity between the floor levels.

Most of the maps out there seem to have really poor connectivity between levels, take for example phrantic, there is only one way to get directly to the middle level without a bouncepad or teleporter from the floor and thats the ramp by the lower ya. While I do think phrantic is one of the best competitive maps for quake4 at the moment imagine if it had better connectivity to the mid level via a staircase up from the ra room and a slightly modified item layout. Then there is galang with 3 ways up to the mid level all in the same enormous room, 2 deathtrap bouncepads and a cluster fuck of ramps by the ra. All of these methods of connectivity are acting against fluidity.

Now that the speed of the game is up and its quite easy to strafe jump up a staircase (even easier than in quake3) it would be nice to see some cpm15esque long staircases (the one to mega or the spiral one at back rl). Plenty of mid level floors and the like because I always thought of the combat in quake4 as plain and boring in competition. Some nice fiddley jumps with ramps on the sides of staircases over gaps such as the kind by the upper ya on cpm15 or something like the ones on gm3tourney1 beneath the mega ledge. Lemme know if you need someone to test it out and such. =)

it took 20 comments to get the first constructive comment. Shame that mine is as useless as the other 19

There's also the RJ that you can do in the RA room, in case you forgot. =X

plz @ astronomy

x-plane urself!

astronomy style. i know in many respects phrantic is similair in size but its a $ map, i think it could work well with a few changes. i guess it would have to be a bit bigger for q4

q4 is missing a non-lg map

Q4 is also missing a non-SG map, so what's your point?

the sg isn't as useful or common in use as the LG.

That wasn't my point -- my point was that the idea of a non-LG map is as irrelevant to the 1.3 changes as the idea of, say, a non-SG map. This idea may have been viable prior to 1.3, but the LG isn't "overpowered" anymore, so why bother? Sorry for the obscurity. :>

It's not overpowered in Quake3 but you always had pt4?

stupid :D

dm7 please :x

My ideal map would be something that's big, with stuff to control, but not too many things.
Say a RA, YA, MH and some shards. A railgun that takes a quick(but hard) trickjump to get to or a long way around(that's easier ofcourse).
Also something where your first weapon of choice is not the railgun, and not LG either.
Flowing easily, and floors easy to get through. Maybe a teleporter here and there to get to other parts of the map easily and keeping speed.
As for size, something like PK sized maps perhaps? They're pretty big :D

~edit: And PLEASE... No more boxes!

my 2 cents...

Would be nice to see a map with only one rocket launcher for once (Placebo has one?). I hate this CPM trend mappers have now of putting two rockets on maps.

Just avoid people being able to cover every path on the map from just about anywhere on the map.

Yes, Placebo just has 1 RL.

The 2 RL trend from the CPM days had its purpose you know, since RL was the utility knife of Quake and you wouldn't dare be caught without it. These days, all you need is rail. Perhaps mappers should just start putting in 2 RGs and forget the rest of the weapons.

It did for CPM :P

So, what would YOU like to see in a quake 4 map made for 1.3?

Design by single minded vision, not by committee.

mappa till tdm ist.

need a brain map , maps more bigger and funny.........all map are onlyrail

you mean funly, right ? ;)

Medium sized maps with well placed weapons, need more than 1 route to and from but not too many.

ztn look'a'like

goth

i was talking about the map, not textures. YUO SO SHALLOOOOW :\\

yuo giev soj?

haha '^_^'

ROFL

Didn't bother reading all the post but to put it simply : flow, tricks, and I mean real tricks, some even the best players can miss in a tensed duel, not too many open spaces to limit the excessive dominance of railgun, and a good set of items. A strong and a weak zone (the strong one would be where the player in control should be found, the weak zone where the player who lost control wants to be).
MH+RA+two YAs should be a minimum I think, so that map control gives you an edge god damnit, and at the same time it takes more than timing just one or two items to control the map indeed. An attempt at extending your map control should be risky too, especially when trying to extend your control to the weak zone of the map (for instance cycling MH/RA/YA/YA).
Probably a 50h in the weak zone of the map, a main weapon (lg or rl, one that can already be found in the strong part of the map in any case), and some shards and 5h here and there.

Playtesting too, probably, so that a mapper doesn't pull a layout out of his arse and carves it into stone before everyone tells him it's shit.

Just make it simple.

lots of teleports and lots of jumppads

Phrantic/hubaeroq3 map like would be nice <3

Everything without rail :P