lol

indeed :>
SO THAT'S WHY I'VE BEEN MISSING SO MUCH LATELY :p

Could this PIECE OF CRAP POSSIBLY GET ANY MORE BUGGIER!?

"MORE BUGGIER!?"

?

please tell me more, what bugs are you talking about?

Im talking about how huge problem the hitboxes are. It's been around ages, atleast since 1.0. Valve never seem to succeed in repairing it fully and now that 1.5 has brought us almost flawless hitboxes some third party program fucks them up again, so there has to be something very wrong in the game.

And if you want other huge bugs troughout the very near history of CS here are some I can remember:

1) The zoom sensitivity: if m_filter is enabled and you use low sensitivity, the more you are zoomed in, the more effort is needed to move the cursor (you can notice this when moving the mouse very slowly, that way the cursor doesnt move at all). Other thing is the 4x zoom with AWP, even m_filter 0 doesnt work on this bastard, you would need ultrahigh sensitivity to move it flawlessy without any "jerks".
(This one has been around since beta1 and actually it exists in every HL mod)

2) Lifted view: This caused people too see above obstacles like boxes and stuff even though the player model was fully behind one. You didnt need to do anything for this, it just was there, like x-ray or sumthing similiar.
(was repaired)

3) Crouching bug: When crouching and rising, you get a small upward boost, kinda like if the player model would go standing on his toes for a second. This is actually quite similiar with part 2) on my list.
(still exists)

Not to mention all the shite with the grenades like flashes and smokes.

Man.. I dont want to bother my head anymore with this crap..

Near flawless hitboxes? Still problems with angle intersection/corners which makes hitboxes (especially headbox) near impossible to hit.

1: m_filter doesn't have anything todo with it, it is your main sensitivty and zoom sensitivty together, the value fraction must be larger than some value I don't remember or it craps out (ie it sticks/lags as you said)

3: the crouch and letgo to see higher should NOT be removed, this is a GOOD feature, yes a FEATURE, not a bug which also is very realistic.

No, m_filter has everything to do with zoom sensitivity, my super low sensitivity now works flawlessy with awp 2x zoom when the filter is disabled. Before I needed atleast twice the sens I have now for perfect track.

And what it comes to crouching, do you know for sure that Valve intentionally put it in CS? I cant recall reading anything like that from the change list within the new update. So its not a real feature, its a bug. Period.

Oh and maybe I did exaggerate a bit about the hitboxes, they are not indeed "near flawless", quite far from it actually, come to think of it. Well, that just strengthens my point that CS is a buggy pile of randomness (lol :).

The m_filter you are describing is just the normal interpolation problem, I've always had m_filter of but with low sensitivity 2x zoom is laggy/needs lots of force.


Conserning the crouching "bug". Several people think that shooting through walls is a BUG, I can't remember reading that shooting through walls was an intentional feature.. Actually you couldn't in HL so it's a BUG... good reasoning. It's a realistic feature, just as sliding down a slope gives higher speed is.

Why are you dragging 'shooting trough walls' here? It's totally different than what we were discussing. If my memory servers me right, it was there from the first beta and has not yet been removed, so it is a real feature. And not being able to do so in the actual HL (SP/MP) surely doesnt make it a bug of somesort in a mod.

¿Would you mind repeating the test with the same skins? I've read in other sites that the skins are different in size while the hitboxes remain the same...

It is true. Hitboxes are the same, not minding modelskin.

lol, and the other CS players didn't notice this?

Apparently not.

Most of them have never experienced something other then CS, making them think that this is the way it's supposed to be.

Sad but true. So they go off flame Valve.

and you know "most of them"? interesting...

generalization > you.

Most good players are totally aware of the fact that hitboxes are FAWKED to hell...

go cs go... lol
its considered the most played and also "the most pro thing" by many, and look what sort of bugs it STILL can produce...
was spray and pray, will remain spray and pray

cs doesn't "produce" this bug. the bug is caused by metamod, a third party program.

cs is still buggy (or rather the hl engine) :)
what i still haven't figured out is how the fuck they've managed to draw up the machine specs with every release of cs since it's certainly not gotten any prettier.

More features, the models have gotten much better quality.

The models are pretty lousy looking with low-level poly count and doesn't require THAT much CPU power. If anything they would require more RAM than more CPU power. I believe more in that the CS team are really lousy coders :).

this may sound like it is a big deal but it isn't. first of all it's known for ages (i knew about this when hlguard was still called csguard) and it's hardly noticeable.

who needs these metamod garbage anyway? i don't think the cpl uses crappy plugins such as hlguard or statsme.

It is a big deal that you don't hit where you aim.

If you have known the bug for ages, how come you haven't taken action and send a mail to the Metamod crew?

WWCL needs Metamod, so it's certainly needed and not 'garbage' as you tend to call it. Last time I checked, Clikarena used Metamod.

WWCL is crap anyways, so who cares.

It is actually a VERY FRIGGIN BIG issue especially when you couple it with the netcode issues where latency differencies and netcode setup will make your bullets NOT count and also that you get stuck in other peoples bullets or pulled back...

CS has allways been no skill.
hasn't it allways been like this even if u miss u get head... its allways been random if u hit a guy or not.
funny game indeed ...

Well not recently, no, as the 1.5 hitboxes are pretty reliable whether your opponent is standing or crouched. It was a bit less accurate in previous versions and the problem outlined in this news post only arises when Metamod is used. If CS was all luck and no skill you wouldn't find the same players top of a server regularly or the same clans winning big tournaments time after time. Unless of course these individuals have sold their soul to Valve in return for a disproportionate amount of CS good fortune.

well if it isnt any skill at all.. why dont you switch game and make a fortune with your noskill team.. go sleep seriously.. that BS

*HUGS FAZZ* \o/

Hey..
Why do they not using the same model for the experiment?
Ofcourse they are using the most buggy models: leet and guerilla for metamod, but whitout they are using less buggy white/black terror model.

I wont believe in this until the tests are done with teh SAME models!.

Hitboxes are not changed when using different models. And all models are at almost equal size. Just load up for Half-Life Model Viewer yourself and look.

He has a point though, you can't get an exact comparison if you use different models. Little differences in where a bullet lands are what CS is all about after all, it's a game of millimetres as someone once said.

Please go look at the videos. He shoots at the stomach and make headshots. He shoots 20 cm (in-game measured) to the left of his head. Do not tell me this will be better by changing skin.

The hitboxes have always had a bug somewhere or other, but when your making games real life based like CS its alot harder than say quake, where hitboxes dont really count.(as much)

Until 1.4/1.5, hitboxes have been pretty messed up. They were fixed then though.

50% true, but now they've fucked the game up competely.

No, Metamod does that.

It's not entirely HL's fault, it's MetaMod. But, there's been like a million other bugs with CS...

Yeah. but things are brightening up with Steam. At least I hope so.

Atleast we can pray..

such lies. 1.6 is even less skilled cs. Steam is the only cool thing about it.

How come CS 1.6 is less skills? Don't say that without being able to back it up - it's too mainstream.

I find the riot sheild completely useless you strafe around with it, completely eliminating the use of it since you're moving around too much to block.

Also, the galil (the new terriorst gun) completely rapes save rounds :\.

erm, in all fairness, i prefer 1.5 over 1.6, but in time 1.6 could be worthwhile.

1.6 feels like a plastic gun you had as a kid.

The stupid feature that you can't see wtf is dead on the scoreboard is shit, the new guns are lame, maps are very nice but the gunaccuracy of stuff is too low and don't get me started on the fact that they removed so you could slide up ladders fast and almost silent (skillfactor)..... It's certainly gotten more newbie/campish...

I would almost bet a friggin dollar that CPL is influencing Valve in almost ALL decisions made conserning CS. CPL has that incompetent ignorant Frank Nuccio behind the game setups, CFG rules (remember the idiotic graphics rules for UT2003? Yepp Frank Nuccio, because he wants to support his GFX card sponsor, ALL ABOUT THE MONEY) and you can bet your ass of they are influencing Valve because Valve would never be stupid to create such bad gameplay changes, I mean HL had GREAT gameplay.

Would be nice to see alfa and mjp do the same tests with other mods (not using metamod).

You'll see the same behaviour shown up. Why ? cause maybe it's the HL engine problem when dealing with mods ;)

i'd just like to remind the gloating q3'ers that quake's hitboxes are screwed too but no one cares :]

uhh

could you be more specific?

Quake 3's hitboxes are not screwed, you may think like that cause you realized that on some bigger models like TankJr bullets actually pass from the sides of the model. This is becouse every model uses exactly same hitboxes, which belong to the small default model (sarge is it?). Try it out so you'll see.

Yes, it is Sarge.

no its not, doesn't matter anyway.
hitboxes are not adjusted to a model, they've been the same for 7 years or so now. models are more or less accurately adjusted to this unique box that has always been there.

owh, q3 hitboxes COULD be screwed, but they are NOT screwed. Only you are screwed here.
CS is an insult to human intelligence given its code and to human dignity given its content.

Problem has been fixed ... it was a problem with a function not being pased. This affected all third party mods. From the HLDS mailing list :

Alfred Reynolds:
The gamedll can export a "Server_GetBlendingInterface" function which the engine will use to perform player model blending. The problem is that MetaMod doesn't pass this function through itself and so cstrike breaks (as it and DoD are the only mods that use this function). So, the solution is to pass through this function call.

Will Day:
I believe I've added the appropriate support for Server_GetBlendingInterface to the code, but I have no good way to test it at the moment. If anyone else has convenient way to test this, you can grab a copy at:

http://metamod.org/files/other/metamod-b1/dlls/metamod_i386.so.gz
http://metamod.org/files/other/metamod-b1/dlls/metamod.dll.zip

<snip>
3) Crouching bug: When crouching and rising, you get a small upward boost, kinda like if the player model would go standing on his toes for a second. This is actually quite similiar with part 2) on my list.
(still exists)

THIS is the one that really hacks me off, because you actually leave the ground I'm sure. As a sniper in tfc (no sniggering at the back there) I often find 'You cannot fire this weapon while off the ground' just after i rise from crouching, and fire. I want to know what valve can do to about my lost frags :/