hahaha

rofl

Ugh, id drops the ball early.


Vanilla q4 CPL here we come! =(

and what did rhea say? ;p

theres some other mod groups with alot of experience, from ut etc

If they supported OSP, it would be like admitting they can't code standard deathmatch and tournament play. While it might be true, I doubt they'll admit it.

good point, that would be a kick in the face if ID did admit this, since they are considerd to make the best tournament games.

It's a bit of an insult to id software and raven to think they could not code a few tourney features.
I'm pretty sure CPL have spoken to idsoftware about implementing tourney stuff.
Perhaps idsoftware want to have more control over it this time?

Also, now that OSP have done it, what to stop any developer simply implementing those features in for themselves.
it's a piece of piss for a professional coder and whoever codes this does not need to know about tourney features because it's all in OSP.
Bit of a pisser for OSP though, as they did so much but times are different now.

While it would seem to be the easiest thing in the world for a programmer to add essential tournament control features, it's amazing how many times they don't do it. Don't be suprised if vanilla Quake 4 needs modding to be used effectively in tournaments.

I don't know why people think it's "amazing". It's simply doesn't make any business sense. Of course they could do all those things, and probably in a few days, but in rapid production environment that is the modern gaming industry, OSP features is simply not what they're *after*, it's more about testing/debugging and last minute optimizations, things that simply take prerogative. Looks like they gave it a thought though in Q4, but even the few hours that they seem to have spent checking out those thingies that ~some overly obsessed quake nerds~ always want instead of that uber cool gravity gun are still probably in spite of their ~high altitude game design vision~ and not thanks to it.

Aren't the "Splashdamage monkeys" technically on the id payroll(QW, doom3 maps etc)?

and arqon has said all along that he wasnt planning on anything for q4 until he saw it so this is somewhat old news?

fuck arQon then!

true fuck arQon, egotistical idiot, id has no responsibility to do anything for him, if he wants to make money out of games he can go ahead and do it but as I recall osp was for fun and not for him to use as an excuse to elevate him above everybody else.

You truely are a brainless cunt aren't you.

Without the mod community id's past 3 engine demos, sorry games, would never have developed the gaming community that surrounds them now. Do you really think people have been playing vQw/Q2/Q3 for ten years?

Fucking pe0n. Whatever you may think of arQ as a person, it helps if you listen to his words rather than making the presumption he is instantly wrong because you dont like his personality.

What? I never said anything to the likes that the mod community never existed, I said fuck arQon for making us pay for him being let down by expecting something from a multi million dollar company... I dont really see how you can take what I said and generalise it for all the community, all I said was fuck arQon, he has done nothing for me and I dislike the idea that he leaves osp hanging because he does not feel that id takes care of him.

Jesus you idiot.

He's not the one leaving it hanging - your favourite multi-million dollar corporation is - without the SDK *there is no mod* and when arQ says there won't be OSP in the early days, he means he hasn't got the SDK and so can't write it. Ergo - writing won't start until the public release of the SDK, and a release worthy build won't be till much later.

Now open your fucking eyes or shut your mouth and save us your worthless contributions.

uhm well I dont really know where you are taking this argument but I still dislike arQon and still find his view that ID has any responsibility towards him laughable.

fs - it's ridiculous that you have to explain that to people.

Apparently I'm even more brilliant than I think if I can mod something that doesn't exist yet, using tools I don't have, for a game I don't have... :P

Would it be good if id had given us a preview? Sure, but we certainly haven't been expecting one. Something that I accept but most people here NEVER seem to be able to get their heads around is that we, the competitive players, ARE NOT THE MARKET. Nobody gives a fuck about us except us - that much is absolutely true. All that "really" matters is that Little Timmy buys the game and plays the SP: once he's done that, whether he stays around or not doesn't make any more money either way.

What really cracks me up though is that the same assholes who said we "owed" them an OSP update are in here now bitching about how id don't owe us any support. Which of course is true, but it doesn't make the hypocrisy any less absurd.

RGD

*biscous*

:P

arQon -- now with delusion of grandeur... he will get the tools he needs if he sits on his ass and have a bit of patience... splash damage has a close relationship to id software after all... and calling splash damage 'monkeys' is just plain immature. It's not like arQon is unreplacable... if he has to be a cunt, then fuck him...

He's calling Splashdamage monkey because of the state of the ET code, and it's more than deserved.

He's calling them monkeys because he's jealous of them being assigned first priority at id software... pretty obvious from the context. Otherwise he's an even bigger cunt.

I think if you knew the bloke, which you obviously don't, you'd look at what he said differently.

Which ever way you take it tho - jealously or frustation, id have basically said they don't consider OSP neccessary for Quake 4. Ergo they're telling you the compeition features in the release build of Quake 4 are sound, so if you're gonna flame Kevin like that, don't whine like a cunt later when it turns out the game's a fucking mess.

So you have to know him personally in order to understand what he says? Maybe he should choose his words more wisely then. He comes across as an arrogant prick here which doesn't exactly help his case. I hope he will get an opportunity to make a competitive mod for Quake 4, but I don't depend on it. And id software don't depend on him either...

Put yourself in the position of being the only person actively coding competative mods for one of the most popular games in the industry, for a period of almost a year and a half. Consider how you would feel when you get tonnes of mails each day from passionate but exceedingly ungrateful players, *demanding* you spend vast amounts of your time adding xyz feature for their favourite mod, even if it's really not a work you care much for, since you have your own project and you'd rather spend the remaining free time after that doing something else - but having the guilt of knowing that if you don't do what they're asking, the community you helped build and care for will slip away. Imagine having to explain the same seemingly simple thing to dozens of different people each time a topic comes up, because half the gaming population have no idea about how computers work, or how the games themselves function either. Imagine joining irc only to get a half dozen pm's from the same ungrateful idiots that emailed you earlier in the day, making the same brainless demands. Imagine being flamed senseless every time you try and make a public statement, simply because the content isn't what people wanted to hear, even if it's out of your control. Welcome to mod development - I know, because I've been there.

Now tell me - wouldn't your public relations be kinda rusty after a few months of that? Get off the guy's case - you don't know him, nor can you really appreciate what he's contributed without doing so.

No one is forcing him to do what he does so he probably does it because he enjoys it. I'm not really feeling sorry for the guy.

However, it is a shame that he hurts his own case by bragging (it looks like brag anyway) and dissing one of id software's contractor. It's as simple as that.

Point of view I guess.

Don't take your frustrations out on the OSP team if the game's shite out of the box tho.

Why should I do that? They didn't make the game. And as I've already said, I still hope that arQon will get an opportunity to make a competitive mod. But if he doesn't, I'm sure someone else will.

"Point of view I guess."

Yes, but your view is biased -- you "know" him, right? You probably would defend him even if he lynched the CEO of id software in his frustration :)

I know him - I didn't specify I liked him :P

Hence the ""s

While you didn't specify you like him, you implied that you worship him :>

Now -- excuse me -- I have different endeavours to attend.

arqon made cpma and he obviously doesn't want money but the sdk tools.

I dont really know arQon´s track history other then he sort of promised or got allot of the osp´s community´s hopes up and then left them hanging with nothing in regards to another version of it for q3 :o which I find really lame, sure he had no responsibility to do anything for osp but asking the general public what it would like in the next one or what ever does not score points for him with me, and I know he also did cpma which I relly dont care for ;P ( and please best friends of arQon dont reply, I really couldnt care less about you )

but still him being pissed off at ID for not providing him with something that he has no rights to ask for is not right, and certainly not making it sound like he is taking it out on the community. But if ID is not releasing something that is going to be big for the 1v1 cpl wt game is weird and makes me think it really isnt necessary.

Did you READ that thread? With all the bullshit, flames and conflicting opinions I would have done the same thing.

You cant make a mod without the sdk dumbass

constructive criticism, no? well then fuck you to

There isn't a constructive way of pointing out that you missed the point and went off the deep end at the messenger is there.

huh anyway why should arq do anything, he does get paid, you had fun in osp at the expense of someone elses time (rhea and arq)

Your an ungreatful child i hope there no osp for q4 so i can watch twats like u cry

you're an idiot.

Why? cos you think you have a right to whine at people who u expect them to give all their free time to your enjoyment??

no, because you don't have a clue what serak was whining about do u.

Erm somethign bout arq wanting to make money form id which he doesnt, he was just saying osp went along way to making id well known in the multiplayer community (both q2 and q3 i amy add)they could at least give something back liek letting well know coders have the sdk early, jeez we didnt even get a q4test this time round, no doubt cos they may know it'll suck for the hardcore players.

O and he's upset arQ didnt waste his own FREE time update osp, boohoo

No, I was calling arQon a whiney little kid because thats how he acted when ID did not provide him with what he wanted. No again I am not upset arQon did not use his free time to update osp I am upset because he gave a very clear impression that he was going to do it and then backed out of it, and I really dont think he needs anything from ID because the CPL will more then likely not have q4 unplayable at its tournaments.

No, serak doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, which is where the problem started.

it's u vs us, promoders=((

arQon bestest man alive! i hope ID get's run over by a horse! LOL!

Haha. :)

AFDKÖDFSAJ
HEY ID
I HOPE U EAT A DOUGHNUT TOO BIG AND FEEL BAD AFTERWARDS

im down with freefood

haha

Is orangesmoothie down? Is there someone to take care of it? Are osp modders for few games still working? Do they got still time for it? Is Rhea - head of OSP - online?

The answer is NO. So let's thank them for OSPs, use it and have fun with it. Don't push them against Q4 if they are not in to.

arQon is responsible for CPMA and it used to be modification of origiinal game rules, so our question should be: is there someone/some team to take care of competetive VQ4 mod?

As for SDK - if SplashDamage is on payroll so they got it earlier then common modders. Common people have to wait for it, but two weeks isn't that much I guess...

Spoon read the guy's words fs. He's not saying OSP won't do it, he's saying they can't do it for early play because they're not getting the SDK early - id has only given it to their contractors.

And as for the OSP website being down, it's down because some cunt hacked it twice and they can't be arsed to rebuild the database.

I wrote exacly about SDK, contractors and common gamers/modders.

Yeah, I know site is down. I was rather writing about whole OSP group, which was very quiet lately. So I don't expect them to yell: hurray and code OSPQ4 7 nights a week. I'm not mad at them, I just take it as a fact and I understand that. It's just don't push them, time will show what Q4 & modders story brings.

Then I snapped and shouldn't have done- soz. I'm getting more than a little fucked off with the number of ungrateful cunts on here whining about xyz when they've done a) fuck all to contribute and b) spent years enjoying other people's hard work.

Mod dev deserves more respect than they get imo - without them what we have wouldn't exist, and what we have is special and should be treasured.

After all, it's this or sommit shite like The Sims o_0

I am sure this is a continual argument for you but fuck it ;p

You have no idea ;)

ESR makes me want to punch things.

q4 is dead, roll on q4 cpm

Am I the only one who really doesn't care? The majority of you seem to think if arQon doesn't work on a competitive mod, then the game's doomed. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of other talented mod makers out there; it's not the end of the world if arQon decides initially to not make a mod.

Get with the program, this thing about arqon not making a mod at the initial stage of Q4 has nothing to do with his wishes and none of your "hundreds, if not thousands, of other talented mod makers" being able to but about the fact they dont have a choice, they cannot since the SDK will not be released for the public until a later date.

cant really say much until i see wot vq4 is like

First sensible comment goes to Steg

Agreed, lets just wait and see what ID deliver, i personaly think every vanila out of the box quake game has been outstanding, the ONLY reason i continue to play these games today (yea i still play some QW, Q3) is because of the way ID origianly made them, not because of the great mods RA OSP CPMA etc, though i now play these. if these mods wernt made i'd still enjoy quake and i believe you would too.

There will always be welcome changes to any game, nobody will ever agree on all these changes and ID does what it does, they can't make everyone happy all of the time.

yup same, i can say without doubt that my best times playing q3 were when i started on the vq3 ffa servers :)

Q2 out of the box outstanding? LOL@U

q2 out-of-the-box didn't have a multiplayer...

yes it has..or at least the version i have has multiplayer from the start

It did, just no DM maps.

They all sucked out of the box, q1 netcode was arwful, qw came after, q2 took a few patches to be decent, no dm maps came with it those again came later

spoiled brag, nothing more, nothing less.

the word you're looking for is 'brat'.

ty

Arqon has a point.. OSP done wonder's for Quake3(and ID) and this is a kick in the balls for it. Yet, arqon is acting in the wrong way, like an idiot.

edit: Then again, this could be justice for the thousands of gamers who ached for an osp update the past 2 years and did'nt get it. I call it quits.

You get a cookie for pointing out the similarity. :P

The big difference is, I'm not DEMANDING the SDK as "my right" and "you owe me it" the way so many people were acting towards us over the OSP update.

This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. The original conversation was simply
Q: are you working on osp for q4 yet?
A: nope - don't have the pieces TO work on
and me taking an admittedly cheap shot at splashdamage based on an in-joke from a few years ago (which I would apologise for, except it was true :P).

justified.. not unsurpassable tho :)

I wouldn't care if he makes it or not. There are better modders out there who might actually listen to the scene. Introvert modders with the "i know this shit better so stfu"-attitude isn't exactly what everyone is expectingly jumping after with their pants down.

Ye but you peopel seem to forget how much time these modders put in for very little and or no thanks, and you wonder why they bitch when ID dont help them when its they who kept their game popular

How are we supposed to thank moders aside from playing their mod. I think this is the best "thank you" you can give to the creator. There is always whining and bitching and this is all about oppinions and different taste. And in all honesty, most people know Arqons attitude, so no wonder people throw names at him.

Can we really expect OSP from Arqon, or will his first project be alienating basic Quake 4 gampley from the majority of players as he did with CPMA? I really ask this. Will we get OSP or CPMA? If it's the latter one, I couldn't care less if he codes it or not, cause I'm not interested in it.
Aside that, I really don't think a game needs this tons of features OSP and CPMA came with from the get-go.

On a sidenote, I don't really know how much of Arqons code is in OSP, but in the big scale OSP kept Q3 alive not CPMA.

Theres tons of cpma stuff in osp & in q3 its self(thin shaft, 15s weapon spawn in 1v1), lets start with pm skins ?

We do not have any sort of bondage to them at all. We play their mods if we like them, that's it. Now, if they make the mod good enough and it becomes popular in for the mass, well, them we're free PR for them. It puts the shining spotlights on them and eventually they might get a coding job somewhere. That's how it works.

I can't remember i signed anything when i downloaded OSP.

You make it sound like the spotlight is a nice place to be.

You also miss the bit where you code the damn mod because no one else is capable or will bother, and the mod is neccessary for the game to function. (ala OSP)

And don't try telling me baseQ3 is competition worthy.

So basicly you're saying Rhea & Arqon were forced with guns at their heads to code those two mods, becuase there was noone else who would do the job for them.

Having people spread out your name along with a good modification for a quite popular game sounds quite good in my opinion. Try to see it as free and outsourced marketing. It's not a bad start no matter how much you turn and twist it.

No im just saying people seem to show alot of lack of respect, they demand the coders should update or demand they do this or that, instead of asking....

Generally true. Should arqon expect anything else?

good to hear. he will probly just ruin the gameplay like he did with q3 (cpma)

u wish u were rite

i wish im rite he will not make q4 mod - yes

i wish you find a brain.

i wish you had a brain.... DUH!

you just wasted a wish because i do. your little comeback, however proves that you don't. try thinking with your ass maybe?

can someone paste the article

Alot of you seem to be taking what he said out of context. Wouldnt it be nice if they released the SDK to the community as a whole since its the community that works to make Quake funner (fuck english) and better, instead of just some of the modders? Shouldnt they? Since, while they are part of the community, they dont reprepresent the community as a collective.

And if not, why wouldnt you release it to the modders that had the most influence on the communitys development? Seems silly to me.

will be cool if he helps improve once he gets the SDK, he can add LAN like netcode, awesome weapon balance, best spawn and armour system yet, along with easy and flexible server commands with a good stats system, but the day it gets air control is the day I stop playing

fuck air control :\

amen

AAAAMMMEEN BROTHERS!!

never

ut2k3 used TTM as competetion mod, it was very well accepted and no one had any real problems with it.
ut2k4 came out, and TTM team sat on their ass and acted high and mighty as if they were the only modders around, so others developed and released UTcomp, which improved upon TTM and today boasts a plethora of features never even imagined by the TTM team.
Moral of the story? dont fuckin play ut

lol @ the moral : ))

haha priceless moral

Hi guys!

Well it’s the first time I write here (I have only made a registration on the site now =P), but I think for what it has been saying here it deserves…

Well I think everyone who as play Q3 know what OSP is, how successfully it was in the scene, getting the three more important positions for a mode, tourneys, a vast number of servers implanted it and the community (or a great part of it) as it been the best mode for the game it was developed…

Now start coming here and saying, “fuck arQon”, “burn in alive, is a witch (hihihi)”, and stupid things like that, just because is annoyed with the fact that ID didn’t released SDK to the OSP team (a no name mod team on the Quake scene), a bit early, I think its stupid, even more that you are accusing him of calling monkey to a certain partner of ID, so if he is stupid because of that, you guys most be what?!?!? Monkeys?????

Saying that your best times was when you guys played vq3, well that I believe, it was my best time too, but now the way you guys have write, are saying that OSP as only come to ruin the Quake3 game, humm humm, if you guys are so damn worried about OSP, my do you play OSP, when it gets out to Q4 simply ignore it and play the vq4, right?!?!?!

By fubar - Reply to #37
No one is forcing him to do what he does so he probably does it because he enjoys it. I'm not really feeling sorry for the guy.

Yes I agree with you at this point, but don’t you think, that he deserves at least a big thanks for the work it has being doing, he doesn’t ask anything of the community, for what he has being doing, but I think we could at least recognize is work, and thank him...


By www.ninemil.com - Reply to #38
Point of view I guess.

Don't take your frustrations out on the OSP team if the game's shite out of the box tho.

For all that as been writing around here I will (HAHAHAHAHA) so much if OSP will be the mod operating in the first CPL tourney, I think that guys like fubar aren’t going to play anymore Q4, at least at a competition way!

By fubar - Reply to #41
Why should I do that? They didn't make the game. And as I've already said, I still hope that arQon will get an opportunity to make a competitive mod. But if he doesn't, I'm sure someone else will.

HOOOOO, so you are fucking yourself because you think that if arQon don’t do a mod for Q4 someone else will do it, hummmmmmmm, why don’t you do it?

By Booger - Reply to #9
arqon made cpma and he obviously doesn't want money but the sdk tools.

Don’t remind me he have done CPMA, now it’s me who want to put he in the fire (hihihih)

By serak - Reply to #11
I dont really know arQon´s track history other then he sort of promised or got allot of the osp´s community´s hopes up and then left them hanging with nothing in regards to another version of it for q3 :o which I find really lame, sure he had no responsibility to do anything for osp but asking the general public what it would like in the next one or what ever does not score points for him with me, and I know he also did cpma which I relly dont care for ;P ( and please best friends of arQon dont reply, I really couldnt care less about you )

but still him being pissed off at ID for not providing him with something that he has no rights to ask for is not right, and certainly not making it sound like he is taking it out on the community. But if ID is not releasing something that is going to be big for the 1v1 cpl wt game is weird and makes me think it really isnt necessary.

Oki fubar don’t want to know, someone will made a mode for Q4, you are fucked because arQon didn’t release any more update to OSP, now if I way ask, what do you want so much more in the OSP mode, Quake3 as start dieing +/- in the time that OSP was updated for the last time (sucking times)…

For your second paragraph I say what I have already said, let see what well have for CPL hehe…

And let me say I don’t know arQon, never talked to him, never saw him in the irc, and elsewhere…

By www.ninemil.com - Reply to #27
Then I snapped and shouldn't have done- soz. I'm getting more than a little fucked off with the number of ungrateful cunts on here whining about xyz when they've done a) fuck all to contribute and b) spent years enjoying other people's hard work.

Mod dev deserves more respect than they get imo - without them what we have wouldn't exist, and what we have is special and should be treasured.

After all, it's this or sommit shite like The Sims o_0

Well great part of the people don’t show gratitude to something they don’t have to pay, they see things like OSP as something natural to Quake3, like if it was ID that have done it, so they want updates and all that crap, they think they deserve that for a game they have paid…

I think that for a lot that I been seeing in Q3 and others games, moders should make a blackout on developing mods, for all the games, for one year, and then it would be funny, I think that the company’s like ID would start receiving mails by players demanding updates, or demanding then to make a decent update with all the options that their mod did have hehehe.

By MAKO - Reply to #34
First sensible comment goes to Steg

Agreed, lets just wait and see what ID deliver, i personaly think every vanila out of the box quake game has been outstanding, the ONLY reason i continue to play these games today (yea i still play some QW, Q3) is because of the way ID origianly made them, not because of the great mods RA OSP CPMA etc, though i now play these. if these mods wernt made i'd still enjoy quake and i believe you would too.

There will always be welcome changes to any game, nobody will ever agree on all these changes and ID does what it does, they can't make everyone happy all of the time.

You should stayed quit about this comment, but people have already answer why, anyway, I will put one question to you,... if you think that things work like that, why it is necessary that modes appear?

I will tell you maybe what, because not everyone is like blizzard, and even blizzard has is problems with players, but there is no doubt that it is maybe the company that must listen and work for is players…

By char
ut2k3 used TTM as competetion mod, it was very well accepted and no one had any real problems with it.
ut2k4 came out, and TTM team sat on their ass and acted high and mighty as if they were the only modders around, so others developed and released UTcomp, which improved upon TTM and today boasts a plethora of features never even imagined by the TTM team.
Moral of the story? dont fuckin play ut

If it happens on Q4 with OSP, I believe that the same thing will happen, OSP will be dethrone, and a new and better mod will appear (and I will damn myself for have writing this =S)

Moral of the story?

Stop with that, only because arQon, was hoping of having the tools he needed for working with OSP before the game come out, and like that providing OSP short time after the game as been released…

Monkeys, to the knowledge of everyone we descend of then, so why all the noise about that, you guys have prove to be even more monkeys treating arQon the way you treated so far!!!

arQon, maybe a bit late, but thanks a lot for your work in the Q3 OSP, go to the torches with CPMA, and I hope you continue your good work on OSP for Q4, because a lot of people love your work!

Until a next time…

BamouT HalCyon

wow, that was actually pretty good.

mind translating it for me ?

look! a noob! fuck you noob! :D

Just my two bit's on this ...

1. don't know arQon or any other of the modders - but I really appreciate there work because of that:

I strongly doubt that ID would have sold as many copies of q3 as they did over, let's say the past 2 years, without people like him, rhea and ALL the others. Why? VERY few people play Q3 SP or MP without a mod. More likely, most of them saw some buddy playing Q3 OSP, CPMA or whatever and thought: "Hey that rocks!"

2. That whole fuss is about an interview where he said he could not start working with Q4 (but I assume, he would like to do so) because he has no code ( which means game, sdk or source) to work with so far. Nothing more nothing less. That Splashdamage comment was some kind of joke - if not, who cares? Its a personal opinion.

I think ID should have given some "first hand" tools ( maybe just a level editor for gods sake so we all can play the maps we liked most in the previous games fast (EDIT: If the actual Radiant does this perfectly forget that)) to modders not on there payroll some 2 months or so before release. Not to worship them, but to THANK them. Because so far community support other then the annual Quakecon seems not IDs strongest feature. ( I am not totally into that so I may be totally wrong with that statement )

A good example of support in my eyes is the "Make Something Unreal" Contest or well known Blizzard.

Maybe Q4 out of the box will need no re-working because its perfect but I strongly doubt it. Not because ID is not good but they are a group of 20-30 ppl who worked on the game for at least a year behind closed doors. Its only natural to loose the contact to the "real world" and what really works best in that process.

PS: I am studying a major with VERY close relations to computer science so I know how to code and whats more important what a pain in the ass it could be to work with OTHER peoples code. So I would like to take the chance to thank all the mod people out there:

You own - all of you.

PPS: Ah, I should learn to type faster cause someone already got my point in a much better way :) --- therefore your first (+) as a welcome Bamout.

of all the people who buy q4 id hazard a guess at saying only about 10% (probably alot less) will play it competitivly and need these mods. so why would they do it that way. the other 90% either wont give a fuck or be completly oblivious to it all.

Well i hope splashdamage does a good job like osp and cpma coders have done in the past, cause if they mess up it'll probably ruin q4 and lots of ppl will lose trust.

retarded.. it wont ruin the game, if gamers are dissatisfied, czm will probably make a better mod

Seeing as Doom3 is out and it has a level editor built in and the sdk which is usable on the Doom 3 engine, the basic tools are already there for work on a Q4 mod. Alot of people who are interested in modding for Q4 or even level making are using the tools in D3 to prepair for Q4. I don't think it will be hard to switch over work already done on the d3 engine to Q4 (Improved D3 engine).
LAot of SP mods for d3 have swapped to Q4 development but are stil using the same tools. I agree that a Q4 specific SDK is needed for all mod developers but there's nothing to stop them from taking apart D3 as some praccy for Q4. On the dissing arqon front I think it's unacceptable. People like him have made the gaming community what ist is and it's people taking posts out of context that are putting him down. So what if he seems arrogant in his posts he's done alot for Q3 in particular. OSP will always be one of the greatest mods for q3 if not THE greatest.
People who diss mod teams and moan that they arent implementing xyz in to their mod, quit whining and code your own mod then maybe you will understand all the work and effort that goes in to it. Props to arqon and ninemil who seem to be talking senseand anyojne else who i've forgotten

funny... people don't even played q4 yet, but they dislike vanilla q4...
whats next? someone requesting pro-mod because the movement sucks?

and btw: there are more people out there than the osp guys... i think the UT scene and the PK scene did pretty well without osp, didn't they (utcomp, pk++ etc.)

from my experience, osp was and still is far superiour to any competition mod for any other game

Well it is :), but you someone can pick up where OSP left and make the perfect mod for Q4.

blowfish ftw q4++!!

So many comments that i would like to reply to, but would be a waste of time.

Anyway i thought it be fun to go into ASE and see who was playing what in Q3, looked at CPMA and was about 88 players at 21.00, then checked out Quake 3 Demo and there was 129 players on dm7 and dm17 alone, lots of other interesting stats too, take from this what you want. Its not meant to be knocking cpma as it a fabulous mod but people would still be playing Q3 even if no mod was ever created, or the full game it seems :)

Its not the end of the world having no osp at the begining, if the game is so bad then a mods not going to fix it.

right
The gameplay from vq3 release to osp now hasnt changed that much really. I am keen to get all the features that comp mods normally have. Have you tried going back to vq3 lately? The hud, weapon menus etc are REALLY BAD.

I heard about cpma last year and it was the same thing then too no one plays it . Most q3 players play plain old quake 3 and so thats what UI have been playing and theres nothing wrong with it. I tried osp and it feels the same but there are fewer players and the better players play vanilla to be honest so that is that,.

well, same for me, except for the last thing: more high-skilled vanilla playersthan osp pr0hs? thats new to me

Didn't you know? All the elitest playars play vanilla cuz the noobs in OSP irritate them. I know, I'm one of 'em.