/bind z "zoom_in; say sniper mode:ON"

Unlikely to work - fov scripts are capped by D3 engine, and the actual zoom command will initiate the crap zoomed overlay, ala UT.

Damnit!

sigh

'more effective than the one from Quake III,' erm so i take it that means more powerful?? lol

Let the hand ringing begin

"The game is extremely fast-paced and from what I can tell most of the weapons and a few of the maps from Q3A return."
a few of the maps from Q3A return? hmm.

q3tourney6_ctf

ah i forgot about that one. i thought campeeground is coming :p

and q3dm17

god forbid a decent map might actually return.

There were decent maps that shipped with q3? :p

Ignoring item placement, q3dm14 for TDM. T4 was also quite good.

q3dm13 wasn't half bad either.

ye dm13 my favourite, gotta find out who made that :D

probably wasn't willits. item placement is too good.

anyone else actually like the original more than the pro version, like me? :D

Just wasn't happy without that mega ledge.

FUCKING HELL I KNOW I'LL PUT THE RA, MH, FOUR AMMO BOXES AND THE TELEPORTER IN THE SAME AREA

everything is in the same area on dm13 :P

pro-q3dm6 q3dm7 q3ctf2

pro-q3dm6 isn't an id layout
dm7 is a stupid 2d crapfest

ctf2 you have a point :o

i dislike dm7 also but it's played a lot :)

Duh, ctf2 is like, ctf4 with walls, as far as mid is concerned. Ultra railfest :x

isn't pro-q3dm6 just q3dm6 with different item layout? oh and the middle level has been lowered a tiny bit

pdm6's only change is item layout and spawn times, but wasn't done by id.

afaik there was something done with the middle level, because you could jump from RL to middle level without making a sound. IIRC

yeh this is all old news.

the zoom thing is hella gay and noobish... i hope they fix it.

fix it?...

it's a new game. it's NOT quake3, let the game come out and perhaps (HEAVEN FORBID) play it before you enlighten us with your expert opinion.

Duke Nukem forever has nooby movment!

how do you know he didnt play it ?? and he's totaly right with this, its not fkn UT, its QUAKE and Raven forgot about this

..

I did play it @ qcon ... all day may I add.

So yes, it was gay and they need to FIX IT.

you're missing my point. i'm sure one days worth of playing a game is far from enough to conclude that something as substancial as a weapon feature is an error and needs fixing.

why should a new game subscribe to the conventions of an older game (say quake 3)? i'm not saying that mg dmg should or should not be changed... quite frankly i couldn't care less at the moment.

i think the game should be released in it's entirety and played for what it is before such conclusions are drawn.

make more sense? or do i need to get my etch-a-sketch out and draw you a picture?

tenner bet he's right though :)

If you're around long enough and see new releases often enough eventually you see the same let downs and end up relying on past experience.

Yeah he's prolly wrong to ethically to jump the gun and make those presumptions after only a brief time period with a beta build, but tbh - given the amount of games that made similar sounding mistakes in the past, you can't blame him for expecting the worst.

when its easier to kill with your starting weapon as apposed to a weapon you can pick up there is a problem

regardless of the game, experience etc..etc..

.

lol nice :)

omg the id fanboi's are out already, i bet u said the same things bout d3

:<

I think the mg is to powerful for todays aim. Does it mean teamplay mg or duels?

Zoom in does say 10 pts of damage per bullet?

WTF is the point in the lg then if you can zoom fov mg for higher damage per second...


I see alot of ping whine and ffa will be mg based.

FFA's @ qcon were HIGHLY mg-based.

q3's ffa was pretty mg based too

does the doom3 engine allow changing of FOV, and if so, is it as big a range as Q3?

personally, i think they should lock fovs to within a 5-10 point spread.

Yeah, id limited it to 80-110 degrees but that can be removed pretty easily.

You can't change fov on the fly without having to press the +move button you were holding at the time again to continue moving. A fov script you used whilst stationary is plausible tho.

and im guessing you'd like it to be within the 5-10 degrees you play with. schmuk

Heh yer, people always want it capped at what they use..

Raven don't have a clue. How much more blatant could the dangers of an overpowered spawn weapon be?

ritual?

I would be so hasty blaming RAVEN for this anyway their other MP games havn't spawned you with powerful spawn weapon(Yes I know RAVEN are the devs but id is basically co-developing the raw gameplay it would seem especially when it comes to MP)

That's fair point - ever since id aimed at mass market they've been shoving kiddie weapons down our throat to give new players quicker gratifacation to keep them playing.

A queer spawn wep sounds just like id :/

whiners.. it's gonna be great. /ignore all whine

NM, OSP!

Well, that wouldn't be true to OSP's tradition of not changing the gameplay.
I'm not sure if id patched the MG damage down to 5 in TDM or if that was an OSP change though.

I think that was id after all the whining with q3test. For some unknown reason they didn't fix it for the other gametypes.

higher damage wouldn't be a bad thing if it came at cost of lowered rate of fire
3 * 10dmg would give less damage then 5 * 7dmg per second but it would be worthwile in long distance fights (lesser spread - better accuracy)

The machine gun as it is, is the worst thing about Q3A gameplay. It pretty much killed the idea of weapon control in 1v1 and severely damaged it in teamplay. In Q1 and Q2, you'd pay much more attention to keep weapons from your enemy than in Q3. There's little point when a machine gun wielding enemy can finish you off after a battle.

This could be a real longevity killer for the game, for me, and for a lot of players like me who like the quake games more for the strategic cat-and-mouse aspect of gameplay than the point-and-click hitscan weapon fights. I'm really, really disappointed to hear that this is where Q4 is headed.

Sigh.

Looks like someone needs to work on the aiming skills, and stop all the bouncy bouncy.

Dumb back hander from someone who's probably never figured out there's more to gaming than +attack.

Go watch a Cooller vq3 demo, or an Aphelon CPM demo and discover the other 60% of the genre you've been missing :P

I prefer czm thx.

Also, the comment about "bouncy bouncy" was mean to be sarcastic, just a cheap jab.

Some of us don't base our opinions on how good we are at something. I don't have the best aim in the world, but since I've been playing FPS games for almost 10 years now, it ain't too shabby.

I think you need to pull your head out of your ass and grow up a bit.

It's gutting yeah, but no real surprise given the move id made with dumbing Q3 down from Q2/Qw to attract the mass market. Sure it won't take long for a decent competition mod to emerge.

I'm more concerned about needing a Kray super computer to get stable fps in a game that only offers an extended 1v1 mode as motivation to move on.... :/

I don't know if a competition mod will do it for me, the scenes for those are always too small.

The flip side to the machine gun though is that it made CTF better, if you like CTF. It has just the right amount of punch for a panic'd last ditch effort to stop someone from getting a flag out of your base after you die. I predict I'll probably end up playing CTF. :/ I guess that's alright, but it's no DM.

I suppose, tho in all honestly I detested vQ3 CTF for that very reason - it was all cess machine. In CCTF or CPM CTF on a decent map there's usually a weapon to hand if you're quick enough before the FC gets out. I didn't like the way a perfectly executed 2-3 man attack would usually fall on it's arse in vQ3 cos as soon as you'd cleared the base to take flag you'd get some cunt with a full mg mow you down on your way out the door.... :/

At least in CCTF/CPM you'd have a chance if your escort controlled their base equipment sensibly to stop them getting anything worth shooting with before you'd made your escape...

Still, Arena CTF sounds interesting. Let's hope it's not a cheap excuse to wander into Quake Wars territory and recreates the Q2 CTF rune-based class system instead.

"This could be a real longevity killer for the game, for me, and for a lot of players like me who like the quake games more for the strategic cat-and-mouse aspect of gameplay than the point-and-click hitscan weapon fights. I'm really, really disappointed to hear that this is where Q4 is headed."

Being an UT player, this is super news for me!
I'm gonna rape you all with my über-l337 hitscan aim :D

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.... :)

cya @ WCG

It's not super news for anybody D:

there is nothing leet about being good at hitscan weapons.

why don't we just wait and see what happens?

we ALL should know by now that the game will evolve over time, whether or not because of players changing the gamestyle through maturity of the game, developers patching it to perfection.. or simply, both.

q3 now compared to q3 a few years ago? gimme a break.

Really insanely strong MG is just part of a larger problem, the fact Quake is continually moving to weaker and weaker control. Extra health on spawn, strong MG, more balanced weapons, no backpacks and weak counting down armor are all part of this. Even if MG was weaker than Q3 these other gameplay issues would stop it from being as control based as Q1/Q2.

I think the best solution to make Q4 TDM good would be nerf MG, bring back strong armor(really strong RA, significantly weaker YA, and weak GA), backpacks dropped on death with current weapon/all ammo and get rid of extra health on spawn(back to 100 health). I think those changes alone would be enough to make it very nice. Most other changes I don't think people would accept. I would love tweaked weapons, and air control but they certainly would not be accepted. You'd end up with with VQ3 vs CPM situation again which I think everyone wants to avoid.

Now for a little explaination. Weaker MG leads to making other weapons more important and stopping cess. Strong armor means strong control, which is strategy trumping aim skills. Backpacks allow players to accumulate very high ammo later in the game as ammo builds up over time. High ammo and 100 health spawns means spawn rape becomes a big factor in TDM which adds another element to strategy. You can make maps where spawn points concentrate and can be controlled. With extra health and a strong MG having spawn points clustered together just means anyone dumb enough to try to control them is going to die. Q4 TDM will likely be tweaked for the better, the question is just what result people are going to be aiming for.

Yeah all the new dm games seem to be trying to like reach out and broaden their appeal but it doesn't work . What the average player wants is a round based 'co-operative' ww2 game and won't touch a deathmatch fps no matter how much its dumbed down. So they just end up turning off their existing fanbase and the deathmatch gaming scene shrinks smaller every generation.

This is all too true. It's also true that there is a problem for noobies trying to get into the game, getting beat down hard by more experienced players sitting and waiting for them to arrive on servers. This turns them off right away, and the scene rarely adds to it's player base.

I think the solution is actually a rating system, like chess. Everyone's rating would (with different ratings for each mode of the game) be prominantly displayed everywhere you go and be tied to your CD key. Make it integral. Noobies will recognize a rating right away and not get turned off when that 1700 rated guy on the server beats their 1100 rated ass 30 to -1. Then they can instead seek out each other.

Don't try to change the game so that noobies can beat experienced players; change the game so that noobies can find other noobies to learn and have fun against.

Yep, they need this for DM games badly. I've been saying it for a long time. The main problem with DM is not the gameplay but the fact some newbie can end up playing on the same server vs a pro-gamer.

that's not actually a bad idea.. but it would be a little weird in practice, but hey, on the other hand it's gotta kill aliasing somewhat.

"Epic plans to use UT2007 to bring more and more people into the Unreal community, with strong community integration out of the box. In-game lobbies are planned for the Unreal Warfare mode, and game stats integration will allow you to find similarly-skilled opponents via the UT2007 server browser.

Also planned are a global rankings system to allow clans to compare scores, as well as a system for viewing community and clan pages in-game."

So i guess it's gonna be UT2007 for you? :)

too bad that the game is shit :/

sounds like gay ol halo2

yeah, ratings ladder and match making are one of the best things about sc/wc3 on bnet - bringing in a similar service for quake would be sweet.

That's actually a fuckin' brilliant idea there, dude.

Yahoo should start hosting Q4. :)

so basically make q4 exactly like quakeworld? O_o

you have some good points, but more balanced weapons are totally the way to go. every gun in q3 is the best gun to use in certain specific situations, and imo is far and away the best set of weapons in any DM game ever. skill with weapons shouldnt take a backseat to not being able to pick them up because you spawned with about 200 points less health/armor than the guys on the other team that are chilling at your clusterfuck spawn point, fully armed, while youre shooting twice per second (if you live that long) with the blaster.
i personally prefer some mg cess to a total map lockdown.. if youve ever played ut2k3 tdm you know how it feels to just know that you cant turn the tide once the other team is controlling a certain area.

Did I say to tweak any weapons but the MG? No, I did not. :p I think you also ignore that all weapons can be useful in Q1/Q2, even though they are weaker(read: unbalanced). In Q3 weapons overall are more useful in any situation because they all do a relatively high damage rate.

Your complaint about spawn rape is invalid as well. Just because spawn rape is possible does not mean you will see it happen tons in matches when good teams fight. The fact is gameplay like I described makes another strategic option possible which is not currently in Q3. Why is that a bad thing?

I do think skill with weapons should take a backseat to strategy however, but nothing as bad as you described. The fact is in Q3 now being able to make 50% RG or LG along with killer SSG/MG aim is basically enough to make you a really good player. Cessing should always be possible. Even in Q1 it is fairly strong, though it is very hard to do in Q2 with just the blaster.

I dont think running around with the boomy in qw is counted as cess, especially in tdm.

No just make it less than CS... it is quake after all, you shouldnt have to huddle all 4 players together just cos spawners are so strong also

About weapon control : right now it seems players don't drop weapons at all when they die. That should make weapon control more powerful... depending on the TP /1V1 respawn time. Or it could take more interest away from it.

Does anyone know the damage and delay of the railgun in Q4? I just watched the latest EC demos and I think the railgun should be toned down to for example 75 dmg. It's just too powerful in Q3 and only promotes defensive play.

It can be used to finish off fleeing opponents, but that would work with lower damage also. I'd like the projectile based weapons to be the most powerful, more airrockets! And keep the ammo low to avoid rocket spamming.

Agreed, more airrockets plz!

As reported by many people who played it at Quakecon, Q4's rail gives about 75 damage. And it might have a longer reload time o/

That would rock. It would still be useful for the one long-range shot when you need it but it would suck hard in close combat :)

Yeah, I hope it really turns out this way.

\o/