a little spontaneously don't you think? but yeah, he's very talented..

well, I watched the PK finals, and the way fatal1ty came back from being pushed into LB by Vo0 just blew me away. Maybe Vo0 didn't get his game going, like he said in the aftertalk, but I was still impressed by some really great frags from both (loved the telefrag by Vo0 in the WB finals btw :)))

To come back from LB when it takes two best-of-3 to win is like the hardest thing in the world, but fatal1ty rose to the occasion and achieved the impossible! If I were a rapper I'd make that little 3-fingered gesture that rappers do and go 'Respecc!' :)

i'd say fatality had the advantage to play the deciding best of 3 series directly after winning with 2-0 in the first best of 3.. the last and final best of 3 is supposed to be on even conditions.. eventhough everything looked even in the scores, the mental game were already lost by voo..

both of them are worthy winners, but fatality ended on top :) gg's

i bet there will be a ton of better q4 players than fat... first of all... a lot of the best fps players (ie former quake players) are playing q4 alot unlike the previous games hes played since quake... these people are playing a game series that they love and not just one to make some money =/. so greats will put in alot more time that in crrappy games like pk and he wont have this insane practice schedule advantage. and for the ones who really are in it for the money... after seeing the payout at the wt finals a ton of people will take the game more seriously to be 'pro' and from that ton and the bunch of quake greats there are alot of people who have way more natural talent than he who up their practicing and will simply be ahead of him. the only way cpl will get their golden boy back is to get rid of quake as the wt game asap. watching the mtv coverage of the finals just sickened me. fatality was being touted as the greatest gamer in the world in this match of gamings to greats. lol. in this awesome fps game of painkiller. and it wasnt only the clueless mtv metrosexual host(i love when he goes, "so you start off with 100 points?") who kept flirting with that nasty beast from clan pms or w/e (omg she must look like a pile of vomit w/o all the fixing up the makeup crew did). no it was also the shoutcasters from tsn who were two of the lamest people ive ever seen. well tbh... only the guy on the left with the backwards hat was really annoying... he was the essense of a tool. tsn has their dongs so far up angels behind that they are willing to blatantly lie to everyone and make people think that this wt was like THE HOTNESS in every aspect. who are they kidding... the only great thing was the prize pool. i mean i think its great that they are advancing "esports" or w/e but i mean comeon. people are just such sellouts... know what else sucks... so tsn will be doing the cpls and we wont get shoutcasts from the greatest shoutcaster ever, that OG, wheat. whos not gonna kiss the cpl or fatalitys ass.

so anyways yeah... im gonna stop from going on about things i hate cuz everything i say just reminds me of more.... like now i wanna go into the cpl... and then angel... and then who knows from there. but ill stop... anyways, yeah, fatality's gonna see minimal income from prizes so he better hope those sponsorships hold out until the cpl can find another gay game for him to be better than all of about 32 players in the world. id advice him also to not spend the money he has. save that... youll need it badly soon enough... this is the fall of fatality i tell you... can you tell i dont like him =P. but seriously i try to construct my arguments as to why he'll not do well with some logic.

btw. greatest gamer ever? off the top of my head id say fatality would be like the 40th greatest gamer from korea... forget about the world.

holy jebus weve just found a new jamerio!!!1

[-]

immortal ftw!

One of the most ignorant and stupid posts i've read in the last weeks. Are you new to gaming? Were you in love with Fata and then he broke your heart, or why are you writing this bullshit? I read comments like this for about five years now, but every time Fata starts a game, he proves you are wrong.
For the blinds like you here are some facts about Fata:

1. He switches from game to game.
2. He was the best in nearly 99% games he played.
3. He makes lot of money.
4. He will make even more money.
5. Fata is PRO.

He isnt the best in all games he's played in.
In q3 after a very successful first 8 months, he got surpassed by several players, including people like zero4. In

Ut2003 he won what, 1 tournament? I wouldnt call that being the best in the world
Doom3? Well winning quakecon doesnt really count it was a lottery who would get it, and the game was released like 2 weeks earlier?
PK: vo0 has made more money and won far more tournaments than fat.

He's very successful yes, and a great player so far in the games he's played. But the best in each and every one of them? No way jose!

C'mon, do you really believe what you are saying? Which criterias make a player beeing the best? One game? One Year on beeing on top? Perhaps different games and beeing on top for years ?

Would fatal1tys practice abilities that helped him so much in his FPS career make him the number 1 RTSer? No, the fact that the the top starcraft (and possibly warcraft) players need to put in up to between 12-15 hours to stay in the top showes that. Alot of players has been the best in one year in a game. Thresh for example was unbeaten tournamentwise in his entire proffesional gaming career. Does that him the best? We dont know because we never got to see fatal1ty vs thresh. Another example is gitzzz, anyone who knows something about unreal tournament knows just how AMAZING he was. Probably the best unreal tournament player to this day? Well maybe, how would he have done in quake? We dont know.

There are simply too many factors to put into the equation to get a simple answer. Fatal1ty is very good with shooters, but remember that shooter skills transwer from one game to another. As I imagine that RTS skills do.
Its easy to say fatal1ty is the best because he's still around, and with comes lots of PR. If you were around a few years ago in the quake community you would know that a few years ago ALOT of people thought Thresh was the greatest gamer ever. Why? Because there, just like with fat was alot of fuzz around him because of his skills.

In ten years when fatal1ty is not around playing games anymore I am very sure that there will be someone else in his place, and people will say he is the greatest game of all time.

its not good to give FACTS when you in fact dont know that these facts are factually true. does that make sense to you?

these people are playing a game series that they love and not just one to make some money =/.

wow dude. there's a HUGE FUCKING different between Fatality and ALL random q4 pro-wannabes. Fatality play games for a living - it's his job. Working is never fun all the time, and most people end up working with stuff they dont find funny.

Fatality is a legend regardless if you like it or not.. He's embedded his mark on gaming & he proved it.. I watched the finals on MTV for that game PainKiller. If the guy (v0o) was ahead and Fat was in the losing bracket and came back? then that has to tell you that he mentally has pure skill to be able to rise like that.. I see a lot of jealous people on here who ridicule the kid but if they were in the same place as Fat they can't say they wouldn't be doing the same thing he is doing because they most definitely would. Shit I know I would :) GG's.

he OWNNNNNNNNZZ
that dude is a true pro 4 me

as above, bring da flame :D

Fat for winter cpl (After stelam/zyz/fox!)

it will take him awhile to get good at it, this time next year he'll camp and get first :X

na am sure hel do well.

It is hard to tell really, he is behind everyone(Map, weapons etc) in some ways but ahead in others (Motivation/Experience).

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice

he's living proof that with hard work you can accolplish your goals. who gives a shit if he isn't the most naturally talented player out there. he is the hardest worker and is talented in other ways (marketing machine). people whine and talk but they never produce, so imo fatality is the greatest fps gamer, regardless of his natural talent.

I didn't say he wasn't talented.

His ability to PPPPPPPPPPP is a talent itself :)

I dont get how people come up with this natural talent bullshit, the guy got great aim and get strategy. Yeah he practises, he just dont hide the fact.

All these other gamers play just a much but like to make out they dont, gives them a cheap excuse for losing.

You cant take an average player, have him play 8 hours a day and him beat the pros, no amount of practise will ever do that as far as i am concerned.

Also people seem to forget that most of the top players have been playing since at least 2000 (A lot of them since QW and even more since Q2).

Take Vo0 for example people go on about him having amazing natural talent (I am sure he does) and that Fatal1ty dosn't (I am sure he is just as talented as Vo0) as if he hadn't been playing DM games for years (He played Q2 at a good level [Dunno for sure how good he was so I will leave it at that] and was a top CPMA duel player).

Yeah its completely ridiculous. The Frag 3 when fatality finished third everyone was going on about what an exciting player and how naturally talented he was. Once he started winning everything though of course it was because he was boring and practised too much :).

You cant take an average player, have him play 8 hours a day and him beat the pros, no amount of practise will ever do that as far as i am concerned.

Yes you can. People just lack the determination to follow up and self anaylse as they are progressing. You are one negative fucker.

thats a pretty good call honey, but ofc some people arnt made for certain sports and wont do well no matter what. but yesh ur right.

Well luckily i have my own ugly bald little dwarve to follow me about adding spice to my negative posts eh!

and no i am right, you cant 'learn' to have good aim, you can improve what you have slightly with practise but you will never go from good to godlike. Same with strategy, you either understand it or you dont.

sorry to crush your dreams of becoming pro tho, am sure you can make it really man. If not at least you can still follow my comments about on esr to keep you busy.

You are now sounding like Jamerio. With your so called facts.

you cant 'learn' to have good aim, you can improve what you have slightly with practise but you will never go from good to godlike.

So you think toxic started Q3 with devastating aim? He may of had some natural talent but it only helps a player the slightest bit and most certainly doesn't make one. Players that succeed put the time in, they build upon the skills they develop overtime. The skills I have learnt in Q3 will aid me in Q4, instead of having no aim when I start Q4 like I did in Q3, I will know how match strafe patterns, aim at an angle, predict certain movements, and faster reflexes as a normal to name but a few aids. These skills I will learn in a matter of months because I already have them, the time I spent learning them before hand will be spent improving upon them.

Same with strategy, you either understand it or you don't.

That is just stupid and very shallow. I am sure Mr Kasparov looked at a chess board when he was 5 years old and knew what he was doing.

Natural talent helps, that's all. It will only get you so far and that goes in all aspects of sport and life. If you honestly think these players are winning because they just have that 'spark' then you a very troubled. With enough effort, time and determination I could compete with the best and quite possibly beat them in any walk of life. Hell I am sure you were one of the ones mocking fooki a few years back when he was uploading demos of himself on ESR trying to get somewhere.

What makes you think computer games is so much different than EVERYTHING else in life? Are the most successful bodybuilders the ones who put the most effort into it, are the richest people on earth the ones who worked the hardest, are the best mathematicians the best because they spent the most time doing math, are the most successful musicians those who practice the most, is David Beckham as successful player as he is because he plays football all day long? Personally I'd answer no, but perhaps you wouldn't...

Pretty nice way of putting a simple thing: wether you do believe in "natural talent" making the difference at the end of the day, or you don't. My own view on this matter is crystal clear, but I'm not gonna start forcing it on anybody.

Do you think any of those people would be where they are if they DIDN'T PRACTISE?

What makes you think computer games is so much different than EVERYTHING else in life?

If you would of read my post I am saying gaming is no different.

Are the most successful bodybuilders the ones who put the most effort into it, are the richest people on earth the ones who worked the hardest, are the best mathematicians the best because they spent the most time doing math, are the most successful musicians those who practice the most, is David Beckham as successful player as he is because he plays football all day long? Personally I'd answer no, but perhaps you wouldn't...

So you wrote all that without backing yourself up as to why you don't think so? Good going. Practice and effort, similar but different things. Yet both apply to everything you are saying no to.

Bodybuilders a crazy amount of effort and dedication. The majority of professionals have good genetics which only help. These genetics are useless if you are not in a gym dedicating yourself to shaping your body. Putting in effort and following a strict diet with all the right nutrition.

The richest people on earth the ones who worked the hardest? That's subjective depending on what angle you look at it but yes they tend to be. Most billionaires will tell when they started off they worked very long hours, with lots of effort and had dedication to keep pushing their ideas until something broke through, and even now big time billionaires with enough money to do anything they wish still work long hours. If that isn't effort I don't know what is.

Mathematicians, if you have an interest you tend to put effort in again. You don't think any of today's mathematicians didn't practice there work at a young age and onwards and still don't? You'll find it's an interest they have not a natural talent to instantly solve problems. Musicians, those that put in the practice from a young age, the ones that spend hours in a studio or writing lyrics, melodies and what not are the ones who go on and make it big.

Effort gets you everywhere, education, your line of work and hobbies. You may have a natural kick for things but if you don't push it with effort and practice you are getting nowhere. Sorry if you don't see that.

u need a reason for those views otherwise u should dismiss them. If u do have reasons, share 'em. Although I do think it's funny u mentioned bodybuilders, seeing as Arnold schwarzenegger was obsessed and couldn't have been the body builder he was without that obsession.

"Arnold trained seven days a week. He was so dedicated to bodybuilding that he broke into the gym on Sundays to train because the gym was closed. Conditions there were so harsh that more than once his hands froze to the weights"

He could have easily thought to himself "u know wot, it's pretty cold out, and there's no heating @ the gym, i'll leave it for another day" Not only that but his brother was more athletic than he was

On Beckham, please, it's widely documented that he was often the 1st to training and the last to leave. I hate the word "talent" as it suggests there's some kind of mystical attribute that some are born with and others aren't. I think it's ironic that in order to be great u have to be humble enough to question yourself on a regular basis, and then train harder

You fail to to look at all the failures that train just as hard, but we never hear about. Accept it, people are born with different abilities and some people have more of them than others.

"You fail to to look at all the failures that train just as hard, but we never hear about" -

you're making the assumption that everybody (or at least some) who fails was as self-analytical and determined as those who succeed. It takes practice to be self analytical, it's not an accident that some are and some aren't. People avoid it cos it's humbling

"people are born with different abilities and some people have more of them than others"

we're talking about talent aren't we? "Talent" is just realising things early, but who says u have to realise them early? Every genetic combination comes with it's own advantages and disadvantages because everything's a balancing act. Bottom line is, we're 99% genetically matched, so we're not unique. The only thing that gives us uniqueness is our minds e.g. i look for reasons, and you're happy with your assumptions. tweak ya cfg :P

Only one chromosome (two percent) separate people with Down's syndrome from "regular" people. So if they only worked a little bit harder they could achieve exactly the same as other poeple.

actually the abnormal genes in some1 with down's syndrome effects the other normal genes, so the real difference is far greater than 2%. That's a pretty glib interpretation there mr.

I may also like to add that everyone has talent, no matter how poor you are of a player there will always be a strongside of your game. Fatal1ty's strong point happens to be peforming well while under pressure, toxic has monster aim, and the beloved wock has if22 like quitting skills.

You, sir, have very good points indeed.

:(

look, u get the point when u don't develop as much or nothing anymore.
especially aim, in just a few month when u have tweaked all the settings and so on it will be deadstop, u might get a some improvments whit a new mouse and stuff but its Basically over. strategy its allmost the same way i mean either u got the brains for it or u don't, u can allways learn a few trix here and there but there will be guys that will totally own u just by thinking. this isn't boby builder where u can pump shit and just grow by the amont of training, this is all in your brain. either u have or u don't.

No. We were all born with a clean slate and we have genetics that come from our past. That's not "natural talent" is it? It's just genetics. My 9 year old cousin jumped on Quake 3 instagib and within his 2nd game, he already pulled a fantastic 40% rail accuracy (well, not moving so much). I thought it was amazing however I realized it was because he had history of playing several FPS games in the past on console and PC.

The bottom line is this: Luck = Experience = Skill = Talent.

<3x19

Not moving and hitting 40% I'd say is better than moving and hitting 40%.

ZING, spot on.

Except for the last part. Anyone can win at something like gaming with enough practice, why? Because the best arent' good enough/don't play enough.

That has changed tho; maybe you don't consider the fact that the players who have some sort of talent are the majority of the players up there.

I think the best players are underrated.

well ok not anyone, but you don't need like a roger federer talent to be the best. :)

Career Prize Money: US$19,336,073

obviously ;)

he can think almost 10 times as fast as normal people and thats why NSA and CIA are after him, and the government wants to talk to him and use hies genes to enhance theirs marines and produce UNIVERSAL SOLDIERS a.k.a.
THE F-PLAYERS

The Fatal1ty Offensive or F-Off for short.

There will be another... (think star wars, and in 5 years, think about my prophecy...)

Fataltwoty?

babyal1ty?

HAHA or perhaps fr1endship?!?!
LOL

animal1ty!!!!!!!

brutal1ty

ESREAL1TY

We have the winner :)

is this the one where sujoy runs onto the screen and uppercuts your head into a pool of acid?

hello best post of all time

i'd like to see him play a different genre. i think i'll reserve judgement on greatest 'gamer' until then :-)

nah playing wc3 and SC for 8 hours a day is standard in Korea, fatality wont be special.

he's earnt my respect.

well done Fatal1ty you have another fan boy :)


now buy me an alienware so i can play q4

Best FPS gamer of all time, I have to agree, even I dont like to :)

be interesting to see how he does in q4

Shouldn't that be:

Fatal1ty, the greatest gamer of all time™

not :-)

Fatal1ty is the best at FIrst person shooters yes. Boxer is owning fatal1ty big time in Starcraft. So It's very hard to say that fat is the best gamer ever.

I think after this fatality has to be number 1. Look at the games he has dominated. Where as boxer has only really performed well in 1 game. And people really only voted for him because of statistics. No one in the rest of the world really knew boxer, only the starcraft junkies.

If that poll was done again I would vote for Fatal1ty now.

POLOS IS THE ONLY REAL OPTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!! POLOS!

POLOS IS RULEZ!

"i will control you like a girl (c) polos" (c) nirvana

""i will control you like a girl (c) polos" (c) nirvana" (c) wee man

i gave the copyright to nirvana because he used it as a bind for a while. :)

Fatality is a great player and performed well and deserves respect. But would love to see him play at the same level using a different style of play. Don't get me wrong he is skilled but he is one boring player.

People flame me for saying exactly the same about cooller :(

except cooller calls people that beat him brainless. fat doesn't.

No brain, only rail!

fat vs coller = hategame? =D

Hehe nah, a couple of years ago maybe but not now, do my best to appreciate whatever skill is being used. Though I haven't seen a game that was really really terribly boring by Fatal1ty; sure I've seen lots of evasion and hiding but in some way it was never as boring to watch as cooller. I don't know why, maybe it's the feeling that Fatal1ty can be a beast and is just plain solid and smart, while cooller is undoubtedly smart but not "solid" in every aspect, but rather HAS to always have every item on the map before he "has a chance" (exaggerated of course) against other really good players.

Hard to explain but hopefully you get my point. In short, it looks like Fatal1ty is playing a smart tactical game, which is the same as cooller does BUT cooller in some way makes it look as if he would be just as happy running around the map alone for 15 minutes timing everything and not engaging in a single fight.

What I like about Fat demos/matches/streams etc. is when he is down by a load of frags then he suddenly gets a kill/map control and gets rid of the frag difference and takes the lead quickly.(like that Fat vs Aim pdm6 demo or a few of the PK matches this world tour with his really great to watch spawn rape on sacred matches earlier in the tour)

Exactly. Not a camper or slow by nature but simply not stupid.

I find him good to watch, just like cooller. They rely on outsmarting their opponents and exploiting the opponents mistakes. Not just running about with their hitscan weapons mauling people.

Yes its fun to run about just outaiming people, until you come up against a player like cooller or fat, and then you lose.

hey japanese boy..
its not starcraft and not warcraft :O

its about movement + aim
who cares about fuckers that sit behind corners waiting till ppl pass them...
first: its not strategy
second: its just boring

i prefer nice frags than watching fat's boring style..

yes its strategy you moron.

yes its strategy you moron.

yes its strategy you moron.

yes its strategy you moron.

no its wank you moron.

i agree completly, i much prefer to see a tactically sound game (fat, cooller) than an aim player such as toxic.

chess over "hit the duck"

I remain a fat fanboy.

Or maybe I should rephrase that... But you get the point ;D

like ... fatboy? sounds cool to me

hm. Is fat actually getting some respect from the euros now?

sif

fat getting my respect for being efficient and successful
but he' s playing gay :O
if i would play him on lan.. and he would play like this i would stand up and stick my fkn fist up in his ass : |
he cannot beat his enemys with skills... he has to beat em with nub tactics : | not fun to watch..
everyone can see that hes just playing for the bucks.. its not about having a nice game : |

Exactly. It's not. It's professional gaming. He'll play a nice game when he practises. When you're on the stage you want to win and do anything legally possible to achieve that. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

It was tough to see Vo0 beat like that actually. He deserved more. Maybe not the win, who knows, but at least two proper three mappers or something. He must feel real shit.

"He must feel real shit."

he earned $230,000+ ... must feel like shit

Yeah, he got beat four times in a row, twice on his own map, by his arch rival in this game. That does wonders for self-confidence. I guess the money is a positive aspect, but if you tell me he didn't feel like shit after that game, well ....

Hmm, lets say "he lost 50k$". I would feel bad..

he didn't lose shit... he came with zero (yeye i know he already won like 130,000) and went home with 100,000... of course he will be dissapointed for a sec, but when he goes home and checks his bank account he sure as hell won't feel like shit... why are we even discussing this shit? nuff said.

I can only feel sorry for you.. and i accept that you only see the one side of a medal.

"He must feel real shit."

there's a difference between being slightly disappointed and feeling like shit...

:>

Ok, that's true. And this was the point ;)

i thought the same before the finals and think the same after
fair play to him

It's off the chain, I was quite surprised tbh, but the truth is he never ceases to amaze with his uber leetness, and I congratulate him for his victory. Awesome way for him to keep up his reputation.

i don't like him, but he's good, there's no doubt about it. can't beat the statistics he's got. games like avp2 or ut2kwhatever might not have been the greatest or most important victories, but reaching such a high level in painkiller is really impressive, it clearly having a high skill-level and also several big names with competitive backgrounds.

actually there where alot more skilled players in ut2k3 than there are in PK with it's community of 17 players, so i wouldn't underestimate his victory in CPL Winter 2002.

well deserved

Zero4 was better in q3a.
Lauke was better in UT.
Vo0 was better in PK. (despite of his lost final)

fatal1ty is a good player, but if more people start practising as much as he does, he will probably never win a CPL again.

zero4 was never better than fat on it's time dont say stupid xit and btw rember quakecon when fat was playing ut and signedup for quakecon and raped zero4 in dm6?...

The pdm6 game where he like dosn't do a wrong move?

ie, move away from bridge/rl/mega?

ahh u reply only to the zero4 line, enough said.

Never better? A few tournaments they both played in...

Babbages CPL: ZeRo4: 1st, fatal1ty 7th
Quakecon 2001, ZeRo4 1st, fatal1ty 2nd
World Cyber games 2001: ZeRo4 1st, dont think fat even placed top5 in ther american qualifier?

Z4 was better than fat all through 2001 and 2002, with the exception of QuakeCon 2002.

I'm not sure fatality practises significantly more than anyone else. It seemed like more or less everyone at the cpl world tour finals had spent the previous couple of weeks lanning in preperation. All I remember is he said before razor cpl he'd spent 8-10 hours a day the previous week training and people took that to mean he does that every day of the year.

Yeah he likes to ease off just before the competitions.

i'd say it's not bad if there's only 1 player better than you in any game you play

Imagine the world finals in football next year, if Brazil loses the final against Italy: Ronaldinho says: "Well, we actually are better than them, but they used lame tactics."

well, just look at Greece in the eurocup... :P

Didn't VoO pretty much say that after the CPL WT finals..?

Both him and zro implied it yes

rofl... i hear that since almost 5 years...
"wait til i train that much..."

it's like losing against mike tyson in a boxing fight and saying afterwards
"yeah he beat me, but only because he was better!"


idiot

It is. For 101% sure.

some guys knows how to play a game, some does not.

pietro

LocKtar

Dag, Griffin, akke

ye even as a starcraft fan and playing starcraft for many years i have to say fatality got to take the #1 spot now, maybe it would have been diferent if boxer had dominated wc3/wh40k etc too but he he hasnt(not that he prolly bothered playing anything else than sc seriously since he had no reason to)

Boxer
Fatality
Daigo

interesting :-)

Fatal1ty takes it easily, for the diversity of games he's triumphed over these 5 years. You can hate him, call his gamestyle boring, etc... but it all comes down to making money and getting known and promoting Pro-gaming... and no one can deny that Fat is the best at doing that.

These accusations that his gamestyle is boring or he practices more than anyone else is all just bullshit...
Who wouldn't play a perfect game if they knew how to? Defensive styles like that can be risky and require nerves of steel, look at how long he left his comeback on Psycho till (think this was the 1st time they played Psycho at the finals).
As for the practice thing, he was in exactly the same position as everyone else. No external support, holding down several jobs at a time, he won a few tournaments then decided to go pro, it was a big risk, you have to respect him for taking that risk.

Also arguments about Lauke being better than him at UT are somewhat irrelevant, Lauke peaked at UT2004 imo, Fatal1ty only played UT2003 seriously. Obviously current Q3 players are also going to be better than him, but who was better than him at his time? Maybe ZeRo4 but I think that is pretty contentious and I dont know much about Q3.
As for PK it became pretty obvious towards the end of the tour that him and Vo0 were equally matched, and he proved himself where it counted.

I admit it.
I used to hate that smug bastard fatal1ty, i badmouthed him whenever i could. When someone said his name, i would go on about him being a retard American with a bigger retard president.

But ,seriously after watching the WT finals vs vo0, i can't stop thinking that he is a really good player, even though his style is lame, and he has an irritating accent. I have come to realize that i only disliked him cause he keeps winning. In retrospect, the fact that fatalty won the final stop was the best thing that could have happened. Since fatality really is the best person to be promoting esports to the media, it is good that we really do have an outright "champion" of gaming (i know that sounds lame, but the media like to use it).

Now i can proudly say that i support fatal1ty, and all other gamers of his calibre. Those that don't talk shit about their opponents and those that play with respect, high level of maturity and good sportsmanship

agreed. never been hating anyone though :)

Very nice said.

respect to you for admitting something noone else ever does. "I have come to realize that i only disliked him cause he keeps winning."

alot of the fatal1ty hating comes from the fact that he's really really good at gaming. and beyond that he performs well under pressure and he's very determined.

it's easier to hate than to respect tho.

Depends on how you define "the greatest gamer".
I dont think many people objected when Boxer won the popularity voting here on ESR as the GREATEST GAMER EVER.
Starcraft has not a huge fanbase on ESR either, so people just voted by looking at boxers achievments.
I doubt there is a clear answer on whos the best gamer ever. People play during different periods of time, against different players, and in different games. Also we will never know, because whatever answer we give today could be changed in a not too distant future.

The thing about that voting was, that it was, as you put it, a popularity voting, and as many people don't even know Boxer, everybody knows Fatal1ty and many voted against him.

people shouldn't diss him that much. i feel kinda sorry for him. he's staring at the computer screen whole day long, clicking mouse and keyboard buttons for hours and hours and hours. gaming is everything to him, and i'm happy for him cause he won 150k. it's the only thing he cares about, i guess.

booyakasha.respec.

P.S. he IS the greatest gamer of all time cause he was top3 or #1 (for short period of time) in every fps he participated in. that is not something everyone could do.

lol, you talk like you know him :)

Yeah, pretty sad that he gets rich doing something he likes to do. Lets all feel sorry for him, earning over 200K this year alone while traveling around the globe. Playing a fucking cumputer game.

did i say "let's feel sorry" or "why diss him all the time"
?

Who are you quoting?

I used a thing called sarcasm btw.

To be quite honest, I'm quite sure hundreds of members of ESR spend just as much time infront of the computer as fatal1ty does, they just practice less and do more meaningless stuff.

maybe cause not everyone can play a fuckin videogame the whole day long.

Then why can they sit infront of their computer?

We dont all hunt polarbears as a day job ..

Talent is about mindset , this mindset are you "born" with , its in the genes. But even tho you are not born with this "mindset" you CAN adapt yourself and change your brain pattern if your strong enough mentaly, most people cant .

So ill brake it down for you all:

Talent helps alot
But training can overcome the talented player.

BUT i beleive that if 2 people have played equally much, the one with talent WILL be the best one

i wish i could plus u more than once; then plus that comment some more another day.

On a other note, i think fatal1ty won over voo in the grand finals in PK because he is more PRO, he have learned to not get nervous and he plays very stable all the time.

You can look at vo0`s playing that he maybe is a better player in PK when he is "on top of his game" ... but thats the whole thing .. pro`s should be "on top of theyr game" ALL the time , this is what makes difference in ALL athletes in championships.

Doesnt matter if the your the best player if you cant perform in a championship. Vo0 has alot to learn about this , because your not supposed to play better in the end of the game like vo0 has a tendency to do , your supposed to play your best all the time.

Fatal1ty has been the best in all the games he have played ,
that makes him a very unique and specially gifted player.
And his gifts are 50/50 in dedication and talent.

I was cheering for vo0 in PK

I only beat him 15 out of 24 times. I placed higher 11 out of 14 tournaments, the other 3 I didn't place higher I got 2nd. I'm glad that I can still call myself the best PK player ever, not that it means a single thing.

Fat was the best for about a year in Q3, won 1 Ut2k3 tournament after 2 months of Ut2k3, after that he got 3rd at ESWC and couldn't qualify for WCG. He won a D3 tournament 1 week after it's release, but got smacked by Rocketboy a few weeks later. In PK it took him a year to get to number 2.

I would never call someone the best gamer ever, because there are just too many factors. I would call him the most succesful gamer.

Ah well, these discussions are pointless, but these are just my random $0.02, I have some to spare :)

Successful and Best can't really be seperated (Unless you are just trying to be awkward).

The best player is surely the one who wins the most?

For example you are the best PK player ever because you won all but five(Or six?) tournaments and placed either #2 or #3 in those you did not win, not because you could win all the tournaments but always lost.(I think being the best in PK means quite a lot considering the environment around the game)

In Fatal1ty's case he won a lot of Q3 tournaments and dominated the scene for a whole year, he won a UT2k3 tournament (Whether it was 2 months in or not is irrelevent) with a lot of skilled opponents, placed 3rd at ESWC with two UT legends, won an AvP2 tournament (While not amazing still an achievement and in a different game), won the first Doom3 lan (Once again time since release is irrelevent) which had skilled opponents like Daler, Wombat and Cha0tics(Although it was a "random" draw so can be taken less seriously but sill impressive) and placed well in a lot of early PK tournaments and then became undisputed #2 of PK and won the WT final.

Therefore Success is an integral part of being the best.

"In PK it took him a year to get to number 2."
You mean number 1.

No, number 2. He started mid june 2004 and was number two on the world tour ranking after cpl summer 2005 (july) where he own his 1st tournament....after 8 tournaments.

Well he finished 2nd at CPL summer 2004?

QQ

I agree. Being the best and being successfull are very different, and there is really no "the best" yet, because a lot of sheer raw talent never bubbles up from the un-sponsored player pool, because so much good fortune is involved in having just a chance of winning some prize money.

Well done Vo0 and Fatal1ty, I hope to see you two duke out a grudge match in Quake4 (ugh) or maybe even QW? *fap fap fap*

:D:D:D

This natural talent bullshit is just dumb. If you are brought up in a certain way you can be moulded easily into anything. In gaming if you have been brought up as quite competitive and have played games for a long time and always strive to do be better then there is nothing to stop you from being the best. The only thing stopping you is your willpower in that area of your life, others are more concerned with getting a family, or a career or whatever (Which is usualy caused by how you were brought up/educated)

give me a young child and I'll make him the worlds greatest gamer. behaviourism rulez.

give me a young child.

We all have different gene combinations , one can tell how someone is going to be before he is actually born. Its actually so correct that you can write most of his life down on a papir before the baby pops out. Natural talent exists . theres :

1. hand eye cordination
2.brain pattern .

These are the factors, number 1. is 99% of the cases not an issue at all. Number 2. is a much bigger point , but if you just have the willpower one can be the best MOST likely. But if one just cant see things logical enough it will never be enough if a different person has equally much willpower but sees things more logical ,easier and faster.

Talent exists , end of story .

Fatal1ty is WITHOUT a doubt the most successfull pro player.

the "pro" stamp is important . He makes most money, he is marketed the most and have won in the most games .

But if he`s the BEST ... uhm .. no one can really answer that .. that only comes down to opinions, and its quiiiiiiite a few oppinions in this world.

Both 1/2 of the "natural talent" would make the tiniest most insignificant amount of differences(Like 1/2ms at most unless you are born with some form of handicap) that it isn't even worth calling talent.

I agree.

"one can tell how someone is going to be before he is actually born. Its actually so correct that you can write most of his life down on a papir before the baby pops out"

how can that be true if we know that @ least half of who we are is determined by social circumstance? Even diet affects brain patterns. This is the old nature/nurture debate.There's less than 1% genetic difference between ppl from different continents, so consider that..

Your genetic potential is a ceiling, but the ceiling is so far away, that it does nothing to limit how far u want to go. It's like taking the 60 tickrate/fps cap off of q4, nobody can reach the cap in the first place, let alone pass it if the cap was suddenly lifted (u get the point even if u have a constant 63 fps :)

Exactly we are all more or less exactly the same (Barring genetic illnesses) and those odd veriations make such insignifcant differences it really dosn't matter especially when 1vs1 FPS gaming is so new.

IQ's get better averages every generation, is this due to a magical gene that makes each new generation smarter than the previous?

You think the reason why Ronaldinho is so much better then others at football is that he has practise it way more..?

Some people just got it in them. And some people just don't get it.

... thats response time ... its about seeing things logical way and getting good without even training .. having the ability to improve without even playing etc etc .. its much more then response time !

Still would only make the tiniest difference between the two best players.

IMO, fat is definitely the best professional player ever. It can't be disputed that he won alot and no one can question his skill, determination, motivation and preserverence. Now, did he win every single tournament? No, of course not. But it is absolutely ludicrous to assume that in order to be the greatest player, one would have to beat all other great players every time. I mean, now you're assuming that he has to never lose and that is never the case. It is his winning average which is consistently high that gets my vote.

And like another person stated, you have to be true to yourself. Don't hate him because he wins too much. Nor don't hate him because you don't like the way he snarls, talks, eats, etc. I'm sure there are things about each of us that are stupid too.

IMoreover, in the end, what fatality has done for the health and business of this game can not even begin to be calculated. To me, such a communitarian and business development that he has caused, as well as the groundbreaking foundations for the future of esports mean so much more than just who he beat/lost to. And for that, I am in true awe.

Fatality is a sellout imho no doubt he has talent but he simply searches for areas where he can make money. if even a quarter of the fps gaming community had as much time and resources as him, he simply wouldnt be in the same postion as he is.

Yes he would don't be so naive

Actually I think a quarter of the FPS gaming community got way more free time then fat does. I know I do, and pretty much everyone I know who is a gamer.

He spend it practising though, we spend it whining on forums and watching worthless TV shows like Lost.

How fucking naive lol?

Its his job , he goes wherever he can make the most money , im sure "Dan" would do the same if he got 100 000 dollars more for it ..

Bit naive to say he is the best gamer of all time. Then again I'm not saying he isn't....

Just think though - Roger Bannister was the first man to run the mile under 4 minutes which was amazing at the time, then everyone else started doing it and owning harder.... so think about that ;)

it's really nice that q4 STARTS with awesome competition. now we'll see...

"Roger Bannister was the first man to run the mile under 4 minutes"

Its clear that he beleived he could do so and others didnt , the others wasnt strong enough mentally and had all mental blocks which made them perform not as good.

I will respect Roger more then all the others.

He have my vote, Im talking about mental discipline and skills, very regular game and steel nerves along a few different games. His team game does not rocks but nobody tries to be perfect.