Thanks to the devs for the support to South America, had a blast playing!

I admire the devs. Even though their game will never pick up unfortunately... Only chance to see a real hardcore fps revived now is QC

I have bad news for you...

Which are?

Bush did 9/11

Why I feel so nostalgic reading this?

Good times...

Do you think people now start play only one game or what? That are some truly oracle and wisdom skills right there.

why not a nice big fat cpma update instead of this ?

Because nobody gives a shit about CPMA anymore.

apparently some people do because they are working on a new release, and a big fat one, jokes aside.

however i wish wish cpma devs and reflex devs worked together on reflex since cpma will always be a mod of a game from 1999 no matter how good it gets it already feels kind of outdated.

After all reflex was supposed to be "cpm's spiritual successor"... I don't see much spirit, after all no devs actually cared about that. Now each one is doing their game so hit the spliff for eternal sadness.

As far as I could guess from being on the outside, newborn was the one with a real passion for cpm. That could be wrong, but it feels like the Reflex teams needs an injection of lust for the type of game they are trying to create

It doesnt feel like they have a gameplay vision and since newborn left I get the impression the remaining devs dont know which way to look in regards to balance

So I dont know if pairing with the cpma devs would work, but they definitely need to bring someone on board in some capacity to steer the gameplay design

Reflex is definitely cpm players best hopes for a cpm like game to have any sort of noticeable growth, all its missing is passion and a gameplay philosophy

Or I could be way off and the reflex devs could be super passionate about cpm. This is just how it looks to me at least

i wish i could reply to your post properly but I would rage so much and it's way too early to start raging.

imo these two teams should unite together, fix their differences and work on reflex with all their knowledge because this way reflex gameplay would have way more input and resources from people who experienced cpm for years.

Call me naive but IMO cpm gameplay is greater thing than all this fuckup situation so that's why they should unite. Egos, money, positions, copyrights and hard feelings will prevent this of actual happening. The worst thing of all is that it harms the playerbase health and as a mp game, that's the most important thing

Maybe they just needed a boss to cut down the bullshit on time =)

Arqon should make a coup and take over

Yep

Why? Shooter is very capable, and hardworking programmer, and the CPMA dev team is just coders+newborn. We don't have any artists for CPMA, and your lead artist is lazy as fuck. What benefit is there for either project? :D

Cause Reflex has more potential. Sure, it lacks some things but it's getting progressively closer. CPMA will never have some of the good features Reflex does. I say everyone's time would be better spent on making Reflex as good as it can be and it can be collaborative. The Reflex devs are very willing to accept community input.

I think I highlighted the issue for both games: it's not just about programmers, the real issue has always been (the lack of) artists.

reflex already dead OAO

they decide to go reddit mode and no fun allowed

"your lead artist"

damn son you talk as if i belong to somewhere else, see what i am talking about?

yours, theirs, the -- pick whatever word you want, doesn't really change my point ;)

it was newborn who created reflex as a project, who was originally in cpm dev team and wanted to create a game based of cpm but now he goes back to cpm because shit went bananas with his "ex-coworkers" and he got burned out.

That's sure a nice way to even fuck up more the player base and its competition: a really professional way to dismiss all the customers that bought the game because of him (i insta donated to reflex when i knew newborn was there, it wasn't for anyone else). Maybe he expected people to go on riot or something when he left. The truth is that reflex has no gameplay direction now, read #11.

The benefit of projects merging is archieving more players and better activity, instead of splitting communities even more. I feel like I can't join any cups whether cpm or reflex because i get bullied from one side or another. "woah cpm players signing for a cpm cup with money prize" "why are you on cpm strike" etc... when the truth is i that i have been playing the same fucking game by the "same" people.

If that doesn't change your point.... what was the point of reflex then?

PS: rarely people dig the art in reflex, it looks to tasteless... i am not gonna tell you otherwise; it could have been way better and the guy is also a little bit of an ego endorsed individual, and that's why precisely newborn should have sticked to reflex; by leaving he gave that guy an even bigger role in the dev team... Literally I begged newborn to prevent that from happening.


And then people ask my why i play OW, so ironic, as if i am not tired to watch my favorite game getting trashed year after year, time to stop caring, that's all.

Why aren't you in the experimental tester group and arguing for a particular ruleset? The devs gave us keys to the kingdom on this front but no one has really stepped up.

If you have a good idea and create a ruleset, I will happily throw a couple hundred USD towards a tournament to test the ruleset out in a competitive setting.

why me? Besides I think the ruleset is more or less okay, as if gameplay was only shit like how much splash rocket does, or knockback from IC or whatever.

you gotta ask yourself why nobody is playing CTF for example, or what can you do to bring a new gamemode to the table, or even bringing cool habilities to the game withouth changing the way it's played too much or even making it better (cpm will have a swinging hook for instance). but these are just examples...

Only thing I see wrong with CTF itself is lack of having some armors spawn longer. The gameplay is fun itself. Though maybe flag drag can be decreased a bit...

IMO, the reason for lack of CTF games is because, until MM, only way to arrange games was through IRC or Discord which a lot of folks don't want to bother with. Now with MM and party system, it should fix that issue. It's a matter of getting people to take the plunge.

Experimental basically had people force feed me their garbage to the point where i left for a while only to return to a even more dead game so yeah...

Force feed? That's dramatic. Were there only exp plus servers? No normal casual/competitive ruleset servers? Also, were the exp plus rulesets that bad? It made the game soooooo bad you had to quit playing?

I find it really funny that people somehow find negative things to say about having options/choices. On one hand, you have an official ruleset. That's force fed to you. On the other hand, you have exp plus rulesets designed by community. That's force fed as well.

Man, I gotta say, you must feel so assaulted every day of your life by people force feeding you options. FUCK! Do I want fries with that? Hey, fuck you, man. Goddamn choices are so oppressive. Woe is I. kappa.

As in the only choices in whats easily the quietest continent was different exp stuff eachtime and i don't know about you but that lack of consistency isn't exactly preferable.

edit: any noteworthy player downunder already voiced concerns on gameplay and until we see anything other than every man and his dogs exp ruleset that's played by maybe 5 people it's doubtable we'd return in all honesty

That's the point of the exp plus option, right? If you don't like the official competitive ruleset, and actually know how you'd fix it, you have that power.

The problem is that every one has their own opinion about what they'd change. If all the noteworthy players downunder agreed on what needs to be fixed, you could create a ruleset and share it on the exp plus forum. This is A LOT better than just saying, ambiguously, that this weapon feels weak or that weapon feels OP.

Like the devs said, there's too many people with ideas that they'd ever feasibly be able to test out in experimental. Therefore, they're giving you the ability to test your own ideas out.

It isn't just something we can necessarily fix with the numbers though. There's a certain feel most of the Aussie promode community just prefers in CPMA.

At the end of the day I think people just really overreact to this stuff. CPMA is fun and most of Promode dudes like it down here, so we started playing it again. I'm putting some effort right now into bringing the QL, QW and Promode players together, and we've seen a bit more intermingling between games than usual.

Anyway play what you enjoy playing, games are games ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Indeed. So why people come to Reflex thread to talk shit about a game that isn't their cup of tea kinda goes against that, no?

If you mean this thread I don't think it's fair to say the big bad CPMA echochamber came in here to talk shit about Reflex...

It pretty organically started with memphis acting like Newborn somehow owed the community something to continuing work on flex? Once people started saying bad stuff about him and CPMA then it was on.

Lol OK

750 hours later I pretty much agreed with qhats summary in the testers forum and it isn't just me down under supporting that. 750 fucking hours mate so drop the staunch everyone is the enemy act

Dude, you can play whatever you want, its your life, not theirs.
Never understood the general opinion that you must play only one game and put it on a pedestal. play whatever you feel like playing

And what he get from developing CPMA besides the "hate" from reflex players and total chaos in afps scene, what about the money he took from people? Damn newborn seems like some autistic retard seeking only for attention...better just forget about him...

I think you got the story backwards regarding newborn.

Care to explain? Never heard everything about it.

Nah, it's not my place to share that story. Besides, I don't know 100% what the true story is since I wasn't there.

You're stupid and should stop talking about things you have NO information regarding.

He gets to work on the game he wants to work on with the people he wants to work with.
Regarding the money that people paid for reflex, that obviously went towards the reflex project. If Newborn ran away with some of it and spent it on cpma development, we'd know. Furthermore, he has no obligation to deliver a finished product to anybody, not even if he still were part of the reflex project. Such is the nature of early access.

Ye he sure can. But what is the other reason starts working on 7 years old mode, which run like potato, that get zero new players besides to make it worse for reflex?

If Newborn ran away with some of it and spent it on cpma development

I'd like to explicitly say that I had no intentions of suggesting or otherwise implying anything of the sort, and as far as I am aware no one has ever made such an accusations, nor have there ever been any such rumors. I'm not sure between what lines were read for someone to think that, and quite frankly I don't have any of the financial information available.

I'd like to explicitly say that I had no intentions of suggesting, or otherwise implying, anything of the sort,

Neither did I.

"what about the money he took". The statement can't possibly be about a lack of dedication to reflex (which he spent many years contributing to for basically no compensation), so the money not going to reflex could be a possible explanation for why somebody would complain about that.

I have some understanding when it comes to the origins of Reflex (hint: It was originally called Promode: Reflex ;>), and I'm quite certain you are right that he did have a very large role to play with respect to laying the groundwork for the game. Yes, you are also correct that he was a part of the CPMA development team.

He is back "working" on CPMA -- quite frankly he's around when he can, but he has taken on new real life responsibilities recently and as such has not been around as much as he would like.

Things did go awry with the Turbo Pixel, and even from a very superficial review it's clear that this the only logical conclusion for how things went between newborn & the rest of the team. The idea that he just walked away from a project (the 'official narrative') he did so much for is laughable, and I was extremely skeptical of the official explanation (or complete lack of) when it comes to this issue.

That's sure a nice way to even fuck up more the player base and its competition: a really professional way to dismiss all the customers that bought the game because of him (i insta donated to reflex when i knew newborn was there, it wasn't for anyone else).

I think it's hilarious that you're pinning newborn for Reflex's short-comings and failures, when you actually don't know what happened nor did you ask when it was a prudent time to do so (at the time of his departure). I did, and it was generally met with hostility. If your respect for newborn was that deep, at which point did you ask him what happened, and why? If not, why not?

Maybe he expected people to go on riot or something when he left.

He did not. I can certainly assure you of that.

The benefit of projects merging is archieving more players and better activity, instead of splitting communities even more.

Except after two years of full-time development, the game is no where near where it needs to be in terms of gameplay, and at this point some people (Promoders or otherwise) are sick of it? Great you have match-making, but the collision system is still broken, the weapons (RL, LG) feel awful, there are ZERO (0) tournament features, there is one official map (and very few, if any, which can even be considered competition ready), and community management was (which continues to be the case) given to people who really have little/no experience in dealing with those things -- which is quite apparent when you look at the "Reflex League." No offence to Qualx, who I've had nothing but positive interactions with, but it was a disaster mainly because no one really knew what they were doing -- One admin for a six division across four conferences, managing players across 10+ timezones? Oh, on top of that, make game-design decisions, collect feedback, and organize it in a manner which is digestible? That's way too much work for any person.

For me this culminated in the 2v2 Mapping Competition where the only person that seemed to have any investment was KovaaK -- I checked out the Steam profiles of all the other judges, and guess what, next to none of them even had enough hours in Reflex in the judging period to have played ONE 2v2 game on every map. A few people said something in forums, and Electro said:

I have some very rough notes i took down so i could remember and make a cheat sheet for myself later on. I'll take the time to go through them and elaborate on them and the criteria i personally used to assess. I'll also post the top 10.

-- Source.

That was October 3, 2016. Today is February 7, 2017. It has been 127 days.

Now, in light of this, and the fact that Promode has been used as a baseline to do all game-design (free), and a Promoder (newborn) has set out the entire game plan (free), and Promoders supported the game with their wallets when it was necessary, you're now suggesting Promoders now provide free labour to these guys? :D This is a joke, right? And please don't go down this ridiculous way of thinking that this Reflex is the only bastion of hope for Promoders -- we've been here for a long time, and have survived dozens of clones which were supposed to kill the community. They all failed.

I feel like I can't join any cups whether cpm or reflex because i get bullied from one side or another.

When has anyone from the Promode community "bullied" you? You're a grown ass man, and arguably one of the best players in the history of the game -- Who even has the credentials to bully you in either community?

"woah cpm players signing for a cpm cup with money prize" "why are you on cpm strike" etc... when the truth is i that i have been playing the same fucking game by the "same" people.

Who said what, and how serious were they being? Sometimes people make jokes y'know? If not, why didn't you contact an admin on the server? I did not receive any messages from you on the CPMA Discord server, from the time you joined, until you decided to leave, about this issue. From what I've heard, you were getting some flack from Reflex players about playing CPMA, so you decided to leave the CPMA server -- which I think is weak as fuck, but do what you want man, I just play this stuff to burn time between work, and sleep.

If that doesn't change your point.... what was the point of reflex then?

You'd be better off posing this question to the current developers. Not people that kinda play the game from time-to-time.

rarely people dig the art in reflex

I have little to no problems with the art-direction. It's the lack of art work which I can only attribute to the lead artist, Electro.

Damn i can imagine how you ran to him when he quit reflex with 100 dollars to fix CPMA and make it great again in 2017. :D

And again idc who play CPMA. WHen you learn some game you hardly will leave it for something, there are some players like dat. But you seems genuily retarded. You are acting here like you have some big knowledge about something. And then you come just with bullshits, gossips and shit rofl.
Like "For me this CULMINATED in the 2v2 Mapping Competition where the only person that seemed to have any investment was KovaaK -- I checked out the Steam profiles of all the other judges, and guess what, next to none of them even had enough hours in Reflex in the judging period to have played ONE 2v2 game on every map."

Are you really retarded? Like they made 30 maps they picked 3. Guess what the maps are played a lot, a lot ppl like them. You probably doent even played the maps. But you go check some1 accounts their gametime and shit. You are sick person man. Just go hang with newborn man get some c++ students and make CPMA great again. Just dont shit here some your dumb opinions. Dont play it like you are fan of both games. When you secretely like only your CPMA mod 2000 never forgoten <3. Its just dumb play like dat. Play fair.

wot

[..]I think it's hilarious that you're pinning newborn for Reflex's short-comings and failures, when you actually don't know what happened nor did you ask when it was a prudent time to do so (at the time of his departure). I did, and it was generally met with hostility. If you're respect for newborn was that deep, at which point did you ask him what happened, and why? If not, why not?[..]

just to be clear, I know what has been happening and i talked to newborn when he wanted to leave, i am not bashing him, im just saying he could have kept fighting once he reached this point. Why do u spend so much effort in something to leave it in hands of someone else that you don't trust? I am somehow disappointed to him because of himself leaving, as simple as that, i still respect him but it isn't the same, after all the only thing that links us is AFPS.

[..]Except after two years of full-time development, the game is no where near where it needs to be in terms of gameplay[..] Now, in light of this, and the fact that Promode has been used as a baseline to do all game-design (free), and a Promoder (newborn) has set out the entire game plan (free), and Promoders supported the game with their wallets when these guys were still working it on from home, you're now suggesting Promoders now provide free labour to these guys? :D This is a joke, right?[..]

well, this is why precisely they need people who know what they do, concerning gameplay direction. Hey, as i said before "Egos, money, positions, copyrights and hard feelings will prevent this of actual happening". There you go, that's what you get when you make business with the wrong people, specially after you leave the project all for themselves. Reflex used CPMA source for few things, sue the shit out of them or something? Biggest promode's project and not even a single promoder in the dev team....

[..]From what I've heard, you were getting some flack from Reflex players about playing CPMA so you decided to leave the CPMA server -- which I think is weak as fuck[..]

I don't know where you heard that but i just quit cpma discord for no reason in particular, just like i left ow spain or i leave reflex discord sometimes too. I do that when i just want to have the private channels only and not big channels with loads of spam, after all I can come back anytime i want? Weak. Dude, my life and family are broken since i dropped my activity (1 year ago or something), if i have a bad day i prefer not to read random bs on discord that usually wouldn't give a crap, but when you come hot, you come hot. Call it being weak, I call it anger management...

[..]You'd be better off posing this question to the current developers. Not people that kinda play the game from time-to-time.[..]

No worries, I will, once again. I agree with the rest of your post pretty much but don't think that i hate newborn or anything, it's just not the same without him.

and being offtopic dont take it personal at all (just in case), you're a nice dude and i wouldn't want you to get hard feelings on me just because of videogame drama. I'm just talking here about the "what could have been", after all this site seems to be the perfect place for that.

Can I ask a simple question: Why aren't you this critical when it comes to the current devs, instead of the former dev?

It's not personal, just vidya games.

Edit: Sorry you had a tough year. B'(

pm

Xero, you know I've got lots of respect for you and all the effort/energy you put into the CPM community. And I totally understand your position and all your points above. I respect all that. And, yes, CPM will live on forever as long as there's players. It doesn't need any updates and what updates it gets via myT's hard work will be nice for quality of life but probably won't bring any new players that wouldn't have come otherwise. This is all similar to QW's immortal community.

Here's what it boils down to for me: The point (I think) Memphis is making, and the one I am intentionally making, is that there's nothing in Reflex currently that cannot be fixed or changed or improved without support and input from you, newborn, or anyone else. That it can truly be the progression of CPM into a greater, standalone game. A genuine successor to CPM (which I think it already is but you probably disagree). That was always the hope and dream of CPM -- that someday it'd have better netcode, more features, updates gfx, etc.. This is it. Reflex is exactly that. And for what effort/knowledge you put into CPM, do you not see what you could be doing with Reflex instead?

Thank you for the compliments, and the feeling is mutual. Yeah, that's an excellent question, and it really comes down to ethics -- and I guess this can be swayed with how much you know about the context of a situation.

...but probably won't bring any new players that wouldn't have come otherwise.

The same applies to Reflex, frankly to the whole AFPS genre.

That it can truly be the progression of CPM into a greater, standalone game.

It couldn't be the progression of CPM since it not even CPM itself, the game is more like QuakeLive with widgets and aircontrol atm. And I haven't seen neither efforts nor intentions by devs and community to make it any closer to its predecessor.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Love this quote

I have some understanding when it comes to the origins of Reflex (hint: It was originally called Promode: Reflex ;>)

Just for clarification and future reference, according to Newborn:

As for our relation to PMX: The only things from PMX that appear in Reflex are development ideas. There isn't a single line of code shared between them. I'm not even sure if the PMX code still exists. Development of Reflex started from scratch about 2 years ago and anyone who says differently is wrong. Although you're right that PMX was very briefly renamed to Reflex, to claim that development of the Reflex available today started with (or was in any way helped by) PMX is pretty laughable.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2703613/reflexu...pid2703959

I don't remember suggesting they were the same game, merely that the Reflex project conceptually started from the CPM/PMX standalone project ;-)

I didn't say you did but if someone read that comment, they could read it as such. You said PMX was called "Promode: Reflex". So if someone read that, they'd be like, "Oh, PMX = Reflex."

Is newborn still active in the cpma team?

Is there a way to contribute to CPMA if you don't know anyone?

Yeah, you can play, organize/create events, make maps... If you want to contribute to the code base you'd have to speak to myT and see.

Excuse me, there are still 17 of us left, and at least half give a shit about CPMA.

I play CPMA as my arena FPS now, when i have the time... its fun

I find it more interesting to play than reflex, i like the way it feels

Good for you man!

matchmaking, steam integration, lua scripting, in-game map editor in cpma when?

Radiant, textures, decent sounds,... For reflex when?

Why Radiant? Textures, old argument. Sounds, you can already replace every sound you want with custom sound packs.

He said decent

Like what? Q3 sounds? Q4? QW? PK? You can get any of those in Reflex. Want 007: Goldeneye sounds? You can do that in the same amount of time it takes to create 3 folders, copy+paste sound files, and rename them with appropriate filename. Takes literally 2mins of your time to get any sound you want working in Reflex.

I have mw2 sniper sounds for the railgun and whenever I equip the LG "push it to the limit" starts to play. The addon thing through the steam workshop is DOPE lmao

$$$

radiant maps can be exported to reflex with a tool.. i know it's pesky but u actually can, some stuff is not recognized tho.

we already had textures and they got removed god knows why

they recently started tweaking sounds but most people mod them because they are awful indeed. I don't think they spent much time with the sounds so far.

but think about it this way, those 3 things u are mentioning are easy implementations comparing to the features that lolograde mentioned.

I get that reflex has many cool new things and more potential than coma. I was just replying to a guy dissing cpma, to which reflex still didn't achieve feature parity. The most hilarious part is that he's replying like that to a joke

I'm not dissing CPMA. I played it for 10+ years. But Reflex has vastly more potential. CPMA is now basically static and even if bugs are fixed, it'll never be much more than it is. Plus, I got sick and tired of playing same damn duel maps and people never wanting to play anything new. Reflex community has lots of great, active mappers and people willing to try new maps.

Just doing my part to evangelize for Reflex. If my comments/replies can sway someone's opinion on Reflex (maybe not yours, but someone else reading your "jokes"), then I'm happy. If not, at least I tried.

Looks good, it is still massive air control and no vq3 movements?

Why not play Q3 if you want vq3 movement?

Following that logic you could play CPM of qw instead of reflex

Difference is we dont give a fuck if another irrelevant game has air control or not

Basically what JS3 said.

I dont mind there are people playing CPMA. But saying its better than reflex? It run like potato, there is no release since maybe 2010, besides some home work students features? LMAO CPMA was pretty much dead since masters cpma 2014. But suddenly guys wokiring "hard"again on cpma, even made discord server and pickup bot. Ye ok but cpma is joke in 2017... reflex much better :D

It run like potato

Well I'll be damned if a 1999 game doesn't run at 125 fps in any modern pc (except black's, ofc)

there is no release since maybe 2010

True , however a new version with lots of bug fixes and a new mode is coming

CPMA was pretty much dead since masters cpma 2014

Bullshit. it's been dead since forever. BUT 650+ pickup games played over the span of the last 6 months counts as "dead" , right? Needless to say that ctf in reflex is crap and nobody plays it.

650 games in 6 months? Yep, that sounds pretty dead alright.

Quality over quantity

You're saying no quality in any Reflex games? Man, since when did you join the "Irrational Hate for Reflex" club?

According to shooter, there were 10,000 games played in 2 weeks, recently. I'll let people make their own judgment about that. Personally, I'd rather be playing matches than idling in IRC, bugging people for games. I dunno bout you sad fuckers, but I've got a wife, kid, mortgage, and a full time job. Ain't got time for idling in IRC for 3 hours to maybe play 2 or 3 games (one of which dys will invariably ruin).

Games felt fucked for a long time, shrugged it off as early access woes which is indeed the case. Not denying theres potential there but it seems to me that ship has already sailed. Most can agree it's going to be a real stretch and a half and jeez m8 settle down with the sad fuckers part...

Like what. Elaborate on what is the issue and why you think the ship has sailed. By every indication, devs seem open to gameplay balance changes. Also, they're addressing bugs and so forth. In my experience, watching the updates and regularly visiting official forums, devs seem nothing but responsive to community input. That's why wallclipping was added, why they got rid of capsule hit box, why RL has been a constant focus of adjustment, and so forth...

It doesn't match any of my experience to say anything in Reflex is final. You're probably not in the experimental tester group, but people are constantly discussing the gameplay balance there and the devs are listening.

I guess it's like this: you can whine about it or you can get involved and make your case for changes.

If you mean that private forum yes im in that and have left input there. Haven't looked in there for about 6 months though

...devs seem nothing but responsive to community input. That's why wallclipping was added, why they got rid of capsule hit box

It took 2 years to add wallclipping, RL's adjustments barely fixed its horridness, how long to make not droppable powerups and tl 15 for 2v2, they cannot even add timeout which ppl asking for a year. With that being said I do not see any responsibility from them. And this experimental tester group mostly consist of unqualified players.

I'd like to quote Lunokhod-2 that said next about Reflex after he came back to CPM:

...dat horrible rocket without splash, it's like soft dicks instead of rockets

It looks hilarious to me that some people still keep praising this game and telling stories how it's superior comparing to everything (c) veliars, whereas it is another daed gaem, and i'm not seeing any hope here.

Afaik, Newborn was the force against adding wallclipping...

You need to ask yourself why you can tolerate the issues and lack of features in CPMA or why 2 years is so bad compared to CPMA which still, after more than a decade, has the issues it does. Why aren't you complaining about the rocket splash bug, the goofy hit detection that sometimes happens, or the other various issues that have been in CPMA for ages that everyone has just gotten used to? Like when you can't connect to server or a hilarious spawn system that makes maps like cpm22 basically about collecting spawn frags as fast as possible. Or why it took over a decade for a client to be made (by you) that uncapped FPS. Uncapped fps has been in Reflex since day 1... The list goes on and on but these things don't evoke equal criticism for you. Why?

I'm not worried about weapon balance in Reflex since there's plenty of intelligent and experienced players involved in discussing these balance issues. It's funny that L2 is saying RL is weak when everyone and their mum is saying RL has been wayyyy OP for ages. Lol... Great quote. :-)

Afaik, Newborn was the force against adding wallclipping...

Please explain, and give sources. Otherwise this is just more hearsay that's been spread to pin the issues with the game on someone who hasn't worked on it in 8+ months.

I'm going by a comment Newborn made on ESReality which I cannot find ATM cuz ESR search is godawful. Also, can't be arsed to go through 100+ Google results to dig it up.

I'm paraphrasing but he said something along these lines, "when it came to a point where we could add wallclipping, I decided against it because, at that point, I was used to lack of wallclipping."

He also mentioned somewhere else that he disliked the "rubber banding" look of it but admitted there was some enjoyment with knowing you are taking corners as efficiently as possible. He then mentioned they were exploring adding sparks if you're close enough to the wall to indicate you're taking a corner efficiently.

EDIT 2: Perhaps I'm assuming, but it adds up to me. Newborn expressed disinterest in adding wallclipping and suggested they were looking at other ideas. Newborn leaves TP and wallclipping is added shortly thereafter.

They might be receptive to change, but I played Reflex for about two years. After that I still wasn't satisfied with how it played. How much longer do I have to keep playing it? How much feedback do I have to give?

Nobody owes this game anything. I got my $15 worth, I know Profanum has played heaps more than me and would definitely say the same thing. I'd agree that the ship has sailed, but if the game becomes something I enjoy I'd gladly come back to play, admin and cast.

Anyway sorry to reply to two of your posts in a row like this.

If I get proven wrong yeah sure I'll be back but let's be honest its a stretch at this rate, as dez was saying above its taken a long time for anything gameplay wise to happen if at all.

Exp plus just got added this past summer. Before that, they added an experimental ruleset which helped with testing ideas but not nearly as quickly as exp plus.

If you think you have all the answers about what needs to happen to fix gameplay, then get involved. Please. Make your case on the official forums or create the perfect ruleset (as you see it).

No one is forcing you to play any game. You should always play it for fun and if Reflex is not fun for you, that sucks but such is life. But, the way Profanum makes it sound is like a lost cause because it'll never change. That's simply not the case.

Over those 2 years you played, I'm sure there were a ton of updates, many of which made adjustments to the gameplay. Some changes were great steps forward, others were mistaken. Some still needs to be fixed. This is trial and error and no one has all the answers. The point Memphis is making is you can sit on the sidelines while Reflex evolves or you can be part of the community and help move the game in the direction you want to see it go. It's as simple as that.

I haven't been playing? And to help move the game in the direction it could or should etc we're fucking done doing that mate...

Did I reply to you?

Wait so should we be getting involved in Reflex over CPMA, or should we just play for fun? You seems to take both angles.

But I was involved with the community. I gave limited feedback, as a pretty bad player. I helped test various things, especially CTF. I ran and commentated tournaments months after I'd lost interest in playing. I've literally tried to be part of what you're saying we should do, and Profanum has done more especially in giving good feedback to the devs.

So idk really. At it's core this thread has just turned into some shit throwing between Reflex and CPMA. But you can't tell us what we should be doing For the Greater Good of Reflex when we've already done it. If anyone has the skills and gametime to back up his shit it's Profanum.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

What is your point, that we should keep trying or do what we think is fun?

You honestly never had any fun playing Reflex? Seems silly that you or Prof played and never enjoyed it. Why are you even posting in a thread you have no interest in seeing succeed or ever had fun playing?

We did enjoy it at first but it gradually fell out of favour

I did enjoy it! And I'd love to see it become something I want to play again, I just don't think it will. I still check on the updates and try to keep up with what's going on. Like I said this thread really became a bunch of shit, and I'm not here to talk shit about Reflex, just to challenge the idea that we should be doing something for the greater good of everyone - we already did that jazz.

I played on old pc cpma around 2012, i got new pc last year and i tried also CPMA, when xero was spamming the shit everywhere how g00d CPMA is. So installed it, i loaded my old config nothing was working properly. Then they told there is some enhanced version by some guy which is literally the best programmer on CPMA. :D So i tried it...it felt like playing with 1 fps on max. 144 hz not working... KEEL looked ok tho... I managed also change enemy color...still unplayble... resolutions... widescreens. all broken lmao and 1 fps on top...

Were you still using that old cfg on dez's client? Cause that'll explain some certain 1fps discrepencies...

ye , but i tried default config as well, i dont care, the game has many pointless commands, and you need just spent 2 days to set the shit properly...nerd game :D basically it only play OLD players which are shitting here their shit, or ppl with 2008 computers, which will tell cpma is the best... i dunno which are worse tbh :D

don't really care about this game but erectro is a fucking brilliant nickname.

I want to personally thank everyone for their comments.

I would just like to point out that you are all fucking newbs and should improve at the games you are criticizing.

The problem with games like these is you have 100s of people posting on chat boards and only like 15 on servers actually trying to play the game.

Stop bitching about things and just play. The game isnt broken its all you. :D

We have match making now in reflex. 2 choices, come out and get stomped on OR sit and talk about how unfair things are and how things dont work.

i'm actually enjoying reading these comments more than playing reflex or cpm

Who actually reads ESR comments? :-P

ive literally never seen you make a public comment/post that wasnt bragging in some way

me on the right

Basically its only RUS and AUS players shitting on reflex and playing CPMA. AKA 2 sad countries which are always out of the all gaming communities always. (especially fps games) Bcz of their pings and shit. Loving CPMA bcz of the cl_maxpackets 69 and being unhitable with 2 fps makes them feel good as well. GL AUS AND RUS cpma boys. THe cpma here will be forever and strong like never...LUL

Cry more.

Confirmed not in touch with reality

Dobry den!
Ayoooooooo!

Confirmed extremely in touch with reality

fucking hell its only a video game chillax u basement dwellers, especially u xero

Thank you overweight virgin neckbeard.

tbh. I dont see what is wrong with Quake Live,
its not anymore Q3A, bunny hopping, double jumping, more player bounce was added, sure its still not fully CPMA, but things got got a lot better since Q3A, QL is still a compromise, but it is good enough to be played ... main problem for me back in CPMA and also now in Reflex is that there are no FFA games, I never really played Q3A beyond the demo, because it just wasnt a good game compared to its predecessors, but I didnt feel like joining Team/Duel competitions in CPMA either, because I would only encounter players playing Q3A for years and knowing the maps, I just wanted to play some FFA or Arena to get a grip, but there just werent any servers for these gametypes, so I never even tried playing CPMA ... so there wont be many newbies playing either for similar reasons, you need a gametype for people who want to get a grip of the game, I fail to see what is wrong with FFA ...
tl;dr; Quake Live is good enough and ur best bet for an arena game.

ppl are playing FFA in Reflex afaik. At least it was so six months ago )

77.93.223.201:27960
77.93.223.201:27961

Been running these two CPMA/CPM servers for the last few years, both set by default to FFA and pro-q3dm6.

Just like you I'd also felt the fact that some entry level servers for the more casual/new-to-the-mode crowd were never really around as a detriment to the community so decided to run these two to hopefully fix that once I was able to. The idea have never really picked up as they've never really seen much use but they're still there for people to jump in. Just in case you're still interested.