It's fairly simple -

refresh rate in hz is the number of frames per second that you will actually SEE drawn by screen.

If your screen is running at 60hz, even if your PC graphics card is rendering 240fps, and you see 240fps on the cg_drawfps counter, your screen will only be displaying 60 of those frames per second.

if vsync is on, then the game will actually only be rendering 60 frames per second too to match.

vsync off feels smoother as it will start to draw the next frame even before the previous one has finished being displayed, this leeds to visual tearing though.

It gets a little more complicated with some screens thata have fake refresh rates, like 240hz screens that are actually just doubling up their 120hz images.

So if your screen is running at 60hz would it make sense to cap all your games at 60fps with vsync off for best performance?

No no no no no no noono nononononono noo

no

PS no

Edit. no

that could reduce input lag a little compared to 60fps, 60hz vsync ON, , but there is a chance if the timing was a little off you may get a little tearing too.

if it's a game that plays well above 60fps then you would be better off not capping it like that.

vysnc off at higher frame rate than your refresh is a LOT nicer to play on.

it's your choice between gaming performance, or clean tear free visuals.

so whats the best thing to do for a shitty 60hz monitor?

Uncap fps? vsync on or off?

Yes uncap fps, at least for me.

in QL, 125 fps
(only use 250 if you don't mind about losing the odd footstep sounds and your machine keeps 250 solid)

and vsync off.

thanks man

If 60hz = 125fps
What's with 75hz? Would I want to switch to ~150fps? Or the 125fps comes from different place :f

125 used to be what it was capped at, it was the best for physics in Q3 (bar 333fps) but QL stopped the physics being frame rate dependent.

since the stand alone client they uncapped it to 250fps

but as each frame goes through, the client has to decide if it's going to send a packet or not.
with cl_maxpackets 125, it's simple on 125 fps it sends a packet each frame.

on higher than 125 it doesn't divide well so your packets can drop to around 90, though you don't lose any actual data, it's jsut packed into other packets.

on 250fps it's not a problem as it divides just fine, but sadly there seems to be a bug where you lose some footstep sounds on 250

so, don't use 250 unless your machine can keep 250 absolutely solid, and you're happy with losing the odd sound effect.

Otherwise use 125.

Thank you :)

what's the odd footstep sounds?

You can only hear half as many footsteps at 250fps.

half? i knew some sounds get dropped, but that's too much.

i think its only your own footsteps tho but im not sure, couldn't really tell if i feel like having a disadvantage due to this on aerowalk (i rarely play anything else these days :D).

i mean, i play with 250fps, the engine doesn't seem to drop 50%

highest stable+vsync off.

R I D D I C K
I
D
D
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(Vsync Off + high framerate) > (Vsync off + capped framerate) > (Vsync On)

Basically if you need to ask if you should be using vsync or capping your framerate at 60fps, you don't need to be doing it.

Afaik most 240fps half of the frames in pure black frames used as a filling to add fluidness and depth in black/darker colors. Not sure about this but.

little correction
if u have 120hz refresh rate and 250fps u will actually see more than 120 frames on ur screen since u will see multiple frames separated by tearing lines per one refresh of the lcd

even if u have 120hz refresh rate and 125fps u will actually see more than 120 frames on ur screen since u will see multiple frames separated by tearing lines per one refresh of the lcd

i don't think so,when i put for example 60 hz 60 fps the screen is tearing when i put 60 and 250 fps the screen is tearing less and the game is faster and play more confortable

i need a tecnical explanation not the same story it doesn't work like you say yakumo

yes it does, 250fps with vsync off is just causing the screen tearing to be at a place you are not noticing.

60hz = your actual screen hardware is updating at 60 frames per second. This is just a fact of the hardware.

120hz =actual screen hardware (lcd / crt / projector) updating 120 frames per second.

etc.



much higher FPS than screen refresh makes for better input / movement feel, but to take advantage of this you need vsync off, that means you're getting partial updates and tearing, you're still only getting to SEE a small subset of what is being rendered.

if you could run 250hz (without doubling) you'd find it smoother still, and would be able to react to it even better as you'd be getting all the information.

ok wait i didně't get it again:
case 1- vsync off 60 hz 60 fps ---> i'm feeling like a warping testudo screen tear and lazy movements
case 2- vsync on 60 60 --->(cause max fps 60) ---> play eccessively smooth like oil under the mouse screen is not tearing lazy movements difficulty in aiming
case 3- vsync off 60 250 ---> i'm feeling like iperactive easy movements screen tear sometimes badly but easy aim ecc

there is a middle way between the second and the 3rd case? i mean easy movements and aim without screen tearing

No, tearing occurs because it's drawing another frame before the previous one has finished.

the only way round this is vysnc so it only draws a frame if it knows the previous one has finished.

nvidia has an adaptive vsync option, but that is designed to just enable/disable vsync for you on the fly depending on if you're hitting the frames needed to draw at the same rate as refresh rate, so if you're getting exactly the refresh (eg 60) or more always then it's useless.

Final option is nvidia G-sync, this works by monitoring your fps, and setting the monitor refresh rate to the same on the fly, if you have the same fps as hz tho it can add input lag, it's more for smoothing out games where you may not be able to keep up with 60fps at 60hz, or 20fps at 120hz etc. more info http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview/

O.O....how do you play then sorry? i've met a player long time ago he played with 75 75 and he was hitting with lg as an aimbot how it is possible? i mean why he doesn't warp? there are a lot of strange things i can't stand this

maybe it's also a question of config,i mean with 250 fps the game is faster then less sensitivity ecc but how many tries you have to do between these mod? and again g-sync ok ecc but it's impossibile to don't get screen tearing without vsync?

most lcd screens can work on 75hz up to 1280x1024 so just lower your res, set r_displayrefresh to 75 and enjoy even smoother gameplay with a little less tearing. (in my case amd driver's gpu scaling has to be turned off otherwise it wouldnt go above 60hz)

btw am i the only one who gets more tearing with 60hz vsync on?

Probably yes because you should never get any tearing with vsync on. Unless your monitor doesn't handle it correctly or something, I don't know how it works exactly on the hardware side.

this guy has been banned.
Why does hes asking for in game problems?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Because as he said he can circumvent the bans.

But you know he can still play many other games and fast fps. This topic can concern most video games.

> ( Forum: QL) ESR - HZ vs FPS EXPLANATION? - Quake Live Forum

c:

i'm preparing myself for my comeback :*

You never left hehe :D

i'm waiting that my case will be seen by someone but maybe i'm waiting in vain

someone like who?

SO UNFAIR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fghQh0Y4oA4

Pretty good explanation.

i don't spend 400 euros for a monitor man crazyness

Side note, if your monitor is 120Hz, try com_maxfps 120 (or 240) rather than 125 or 250.

I found setting the FPS and Hz with equal divisions to be slightly smoother.

with the same fps hz i warp a lot and maybe i was abitudinary with 60 250 but when i passed to 60 60 was strange and difficulty in aim basically

stop misinforming people. if u set something like 60/60 60/120 60/180
120/120 120/240 etc on LCD you will get very noticable tearlines

on lcd the best settings?

1000fps

Calm down. Note how I said 'try', and 'I found'.

Not once did I state anything as fact.

I did some more testing on this just now.

There is *no* more tearing at 120Hz/240fps than 120/250.

Makes sense as you can't select 240 anyway, as per Lorfa's comments.

You might want to stop misinforming people ;)

240 / 120 = 2 rendered frames per displayed image, so potentially one tear line somewhere or none if the timing happens to be perfect.

250/120 = 2.0833333333333333333333333333333 should definitely have a tear somewhere but you may not notice it.

jitter, clock skews and such things make the tear line move anyway (240/120 might be 240.05/119.1)

point is not only amount of lines (which matters too cus more tearing lines => less difference between every piece => less noticable) but the fact, that they will be more stationary hence more noticable. Use FRAPS to read actual value of your FPS in your test.
Very simple test to perform go for 100hz/100fps, then 100hz/125FPS (confirm it with fraps) do some horisontal mouse movments -> observer the difference.
just for the refrence same thing explained by a guy with better English skillz :D
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=49#p257

this. it is probably best if they are not synchronized because tear lines cycle through image and are less noticeable.

Thanks for replies fellas, very useful.

There is no such thing as a steady 120 or 240 fps in QL. Both maxfps 120 and 240 will round to 125 and 250 respectively. Test with fraps, not with maxfps which has been capped at the value of com_maxfps.

Here's a table, maxfps value on the left, actual framerate as ascertained by fraps on the right. (note: this is with com_idleSleep 0)

http://pastebin.com/sWZsVmme

what is idlesleep and then for a 75 hz monitor you should put 71 maxfps? i dont understand,,,however i mean to have the smooth thing with equal value

u have to put either 125 or 250 max fps depending on what your system can consistently handle. Higher is better.

Someone tell me why 250 fps is better than 125?

Movement is just smoother, maybe because it's interpolating the data it's receiving less, but you're getting a little more visual feeback too.
It's basically the same as why 125 feels better than 60.

But it has a down side, see #32 in this thread ( http://www.esreality.com/post/2607694/hz-vs-f...pid2607888 )

Thanks, man. Didn't really noticed any crap with footsteps yet, but can't feel any advantage with 250 fps @ 144 MHz. Think I'll just get back to 125.

If your running 144hz that's even more reason to use 250, otherwise you have zero advantage of the extra 24hz your screen is doing.

this means, that something is wrong with your setup. On 144Hz its pretty much clear that 250FPS are noticably smoother and more responsive than 125FPS.
Things to check
1. actual FPS values with FRAPS
2. be sure that you removed frame buffering from video card settings (aka max prerendered frames should be 1)

Very interesting. The FPS when drawn in game would show a pretty solid 240 (of course it fluctuates/flicks).

Good old placebo again :¬)

like it was said before cg_drawfps is capped to com_maxfps hence fraps should be used to read actual fps values not cg_drawfps

Short question - that means it is an disadvantage to use maxfps 150 or 200?

I dont get 250 solid and I'm using 60hz monitor. Always played with 125 but maxfps 200 feels a bit better though.

Placebo then?

Thx

Maxfps 150 will render at 166 fps.

Maxfps 200 will render at 200 fps.

It can feel better on low hz, but on 60hz I'm not convinced it's really any much better than lowering your sensitivity by 5% or something, that would make movement feel faster in a similar kind of way (but you'd need to learn to adjust more as the turning distance was different)


It's not placebo, you are rendering more frames internally, your mouse input is being interpolated over more frames, and you're having more frames thrown at the screen, so at 200fps you could have 3 and a 3rd frames merged together in every screen update (ugg much tearing).

You'd certainly gain a lot more from changing to a 120 or 144hz screen though.

unistall pls

Hahahahahahaha, this politics related YouTube video is actually so comic, I liked it. Thanks in support of sharing this. cbdceegfebdd

i4790K 4x4ghz and a gtx970...currecntly i have a 60hz lcd...

what monitor can you recommend me with that setup for fps games and maybe some racegames. 144 hz best for me, i dont need gsync cause pc is more then fast enough?

then i quakelive, set 250fps an display 144 hz, no vsync ?

ty for info

XL2411Z

xl2411z
> then i quakelive, set 250fps an display 144 hz, no vsync ?
yes

SONY GDM-FW900


Yum-yum.