I'd be more interested in pros coming on and talking about interesting things and other players and different match ups and what not, than this.

instance, Im thinking someone like cypher comes on and gives a few words about himself/his success, then talks about different players, strengths, weaknesses. specific games (if he remembers any). new sponsor etc, you're the host you can come up with something

try to get some big names??????? :D

you mean the same type of interview you get all the time that speaks about the same subject over and over ?

gtfo

it's not like we get a lot of quakers giving out interviews lately

true but as it turns out lel it's very difficult to schedule with good players haha. I have some interesting players lining up, but I'm just getting back on a horse and only started planning the shows. also you get a shout out in the show lol

u've had zoot & ddk who interviewed basically everyone during dreamhack winter...at some point there is not much more than can be said without running in circles

yeah but they just ask shit questions... I mean, like a prepared well done interview/talk (like the one cooller did at dh09)

If I understand koziol correctly, this is not a show, it's a podcast - just one relaxed potentially stoned guy rambling about quake scene with guests. Guests are usually influential people that in some way or another helped shape the community and are not necessarily top duellers.

Honestly I don't even want to listen to duel analysis and watered down top player interviews, I want to listen hoi poloi opinions and laid back discussions.

Love listening to liefje, she has some good points but at the same time this looks like fucking to prevent virginity.

If you want to be treated equally then don't have special shows devoted to your female holiness. Similar to gay parades. I support homosexuals in all their endeavours but why do you need to jump around and shout "I'M DIFFERENT!" then search equality. People insulting each other has nothing to do with gender, a male can be hurt just as easy as a female, I don't see why insulting a female is in different than hurting anyone else. Even liefje herself mentioned that people tell you that you need a thick skin and that requires you to change your personality to enjoy things you like - that applies to both genders so the whole insults thing IMO has a lot more to do with character.

About Objectifying males in gaming, very good topic can be watched
Anyway nice to have the podcast back, keep it up kozel #420

> fucking to prevent virginity

P R O T E C T
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That video basically sums up the research I was referring to :) Just from anecdotal evidence though, i'd say a key difference with (online) attitudes towards females is that more comments lean towards looks rather than anything else. and because that is inherently more directly personal, it's something that may scare a lot of girls away from participating in chat, games, streams etc*.

but you're right that offensive comments are an issue for everyone who finds themselves in the spotlight (voluntarily or not). The internet allows for anonymity so people tend to talk a lot more shit than they would IRL.

about equal treatment, that's a rough subject. I wonder, can there ever be social parity (in the purist sense) amongst genders? I don't think this podcast is about equality, but instead just highlighting some issues that are somewhat apparent in gaming communities. female tournaments, for instance, can be likened to gay pride parades. on one hand, they say that females are so special that they need a separate tournament. on the other hand, it may make (competitive) gaming more appealing to other females. whether or not such tournaments are "helpful" is up for debate. I can't find any data showing a growth in female players following female tournaments.

*Side note: MAY being the key word. Causality for the lack of females in games like Quake can't be attributed to something that simple. So many other dimensions need to be considered, eg:
- socialization
- prior exposure to video games
- peer acceptance
- personality
- valence etc

So overall, it's a groundless hypothesis that girls don't play games like Quake because of offensive comments from other players. It'd be interesting to do an experiment measuring (m/f) game enjoyment with flaming vs no comments vs ass-kissing comments

Bruh if u want to stream quake just get a good mod thatll ban anyone who says something sexist or racist or w.e. ya hurd u got dis. Ok ate liefje? S

Do you think woman are treated the same as men in the "gaming community"?

"I support homosexuals in all their endeavours but why do you need to jump around and shout "I'M DIFFERENT!" then search equality."

maybe they need to jump and shout to get attention drawn to the fact that are unfairly treated? otherwise why would the status quo change? maybe they are trying to show that being gay is not something to hide or be ashamed of?

No. They want change you and your mom into animals.

FUCKING SCARY!

omg fuck those guys

unfairly treated are the straight ppl

try to succeed as hairdresser, fashion designer and many other jobs without being gay or pretending to be one...

I even know a guy that pretends to be gay and he is a developer. What is next? To pretend to be a gay engineer or gay construction worker in order to have better work prospects…

me raging on stream is non existing btw :D

whatever it was fun:]

glad you enjoy it :) gonna keep on streaming

purri is a lucky dude

somebody had to say it, lol adz

:>?

what's good gyn?

caught your KOTH q2 aero match v. Barton a week ago, nice -- just staying outta trouble. Trying to :E

rofl you enjoy flaming others just like any other?

That's just sad.
Online gaming is fubar.

I never liked to flame at anyone..... I only got upset about netcode from time to time ;p

weird is agent smith and everyone else is neo (c) alien IIRC

"from time to time" translates into "always and into infinity" in weirdish for everyone that that isn't fluent in weirdish

;)

at least I tried to save quake from this netcode. (aka the progression towards continuous +forward lg)

What did you do? Insult me a couple of times in public?

you want a game where it's only playable at 15ms and that's just not going to happen sorry, just leave it be if you're not happy with it.

I wonder... are you braindead or brainwashed?

Nothing at all indicates I want a game that's only playable at 15ms.
I never said anything like that.
The only thing I said is that the game should not change according to your opponents ping. As that is just rediculous.
Also I think that "a bad connection" should not play better than "a good connection". (aka people should never have a valid technical reason to prefer ping 50 over ping 20, or prefer warping over not warping)

edit: I hope you're just brainwashed... I like(d) your casting ;p

Also I think that "a bad connection" should not play better than "a good connection". (aka people should never have a valid technical reason to prefer ping 50 over ping 20, or prefer warping over not warping)

Yeah right 50ms is better than 20 :D.
I have a bad connection with 30-40ms (realping jumps around from 30-70) and I would trade it with a 15ms connection any time. In no way 50ms will ever be better in terms of smoothness and fun. Yeah rail is no brainer on 50ms but who prefers that over a slick and smooth feeling on 20ms?

When you play a certain playstyle there is a lot to be said about ping 50 being better than ping 20.

However in general the "overall" ping influences the game a shitload more (current QL).
For instance when the overall ping (aka yours + your nmy) +forward LG becomes way more powerfull than when it's low.

So the core game fundamentally changes according to the pings... which I think is stupid.

(But anyway... people never ever read what I write... I mean I don't claim anything about QL in the above post I just state what a good netcode should look like)

So Evil is stronger on 50ms than on lan ping? I'd really like to know your opinion about Evil before he raped rapha ;).

Most people prefer low ping and you shouldn't give a crap about certain online heroes with altered settings because with a different netcode they will still find ways to look for unfair advantages.

from what i remember weird wasnt sure evil gameplay would work offline :-D

yes evil is stronger on ping 50 than on lan. With the sidenote that online he's almost unbeatable.

I said so a couple of times. But I also said that rapha looked in not too great shape at that tourney he lost to evil.

Imo he and strenx are very similar players... I also told strenx in 2010 or 2009 that he won't ever win a lan unless he listened to my advice --> came true.
Evil just had a bit more confidence in his playstyle because he didn't know the difference between lan and online yet. So he would take several fights which rapha wouldn't even dream of taking (as on lan they are really bad decisions) and caught rapha off-guard 2ce (partially because he was out of shape).

Haha you are such a tool. How can you call it bad decisions when he won a lan and placed top3 in two others? Did you just see faceit? You have some good ideas but sometimes you just destroy everything you say with something like that from above ...

no I haven't seen many faceit's lately.

But how I can say that it's a bad decision is easy. I analyse the game.
Just because someone wins a map doesn't mean that all his decisions are perfect.

There is a difference between having enough skill to make a crap decision still work out and not having enough skill to afford any crap decision.

I was one of the players who had no skill (at least online I couldn't aim at all) so I couldn't afford any bad decision... Rapha (against evil) also can't afford any (really) bad decision.

Overall though rapha's decision making was much better than evil's on all lans I've seen them play. Even on most of the maps where Rapha lost.

btw a logical conclusion of my views is that on ping 15 the game will play 'better' than on ping 16..
1 < 2 < 3 ......... < 120.
But that doesn't mean that it goes from "awesome on ping < 20" to "unplayable on ping > 20". It's just very gradual... and yes someone with ping 60 would have a 'handicap' to someone on ping 20.

But you can solve that 'handicap' by doing smart things. And we can discuss several alternatives (which I gave years ago) or people can come up with their own alternatives.

But I've explained why this current option sucks and why it should change. If you can find something to disagree with in my view then you're welcome to debate that with me.

ouch gg.

Ah well fazz has done things as well....

But his whining at me on the netcode should really stop....
And I don't actually rage at all (which he seems to think).

it was a joke

see the smirky smiley there under what i wrote? :)

it's hard to distinguish on this topic..... :(

Ye so i was sceptical weather i should or not give my opinions about things on internet one last time, mostly because it is a negative opinion. But i felt i would do so one last time, because i still have hope. It's the first itme i hear a QuakeLive podcast. I will not do that again! I forced myself into listening it for 20mns or so. Couldd not stand it more.

Kind of sad to see how people are, even at a mature age. I might as well just turn on TV or radio if i want to fuck my brain.

If you want high intellectual stuff then either follow online courses from universities or go to TED.com.... although lately not even TED has managed to somewhat challange me :(

I dunno if there are other sites similar to TED... would be nice if there are.

Universiteitvannederland
It's in Dutch and most of it is fairly superficial but there's some interesting stuff on there

omg bas haring is on there. NOOoooooooo!!!!! :p
(regardless of that)
It seems like a fun site ;)
thx

what's so bad about bas?

Fairly decent question.

I'm somewhat struggling to find the right words for it though...

I think the closest I can get is that he views pure scientific findings as basis for some extrapolated philosophical view.
And he then writes entire books on how that messed up view will work out.

Usually when I hear him talk I go: ok he doesn't understand physics / math / computer science / chemistry.... but he uses findings to get to some philosophical view.
And then he writes a book on that philosophy... But many of the conclusions of his view are completely not backed up by science.

And that's all fine ofcourse... but it's hard for readers to see what his personal opinion / view is and what is fact. And that is due to how he casually extrapolates findings.

<-- I don't feel like I'm completely fair here.... But I can't really phrase it differently :(
edit: let's say I have the feeling that his overall knowledge of the field which he's been studying for the past year is less than my knowledge of the field even when I'm not really interrested in it :p (sounds even worse haha)

Thanks :) He's one of my profs and I'm not really familiar with his work :/

is your dutch good enough to follow the dutch news/media etc?
Because he's made a few tv appearances over the years which would illustrate my point ;p

I tried to watch his talks on the website but I can't follow. as a teacher he is one of my favourites, because he seems to actually care about rigorous use of scientific method (others seem much more casual). So it's strange to hear he comes off the opposite in Dutch. That said, TV tends to cut a lot, and maybe book publishers are the same?

Well his focus is on science in general so he should have faith in the scientific method.... But that doesn't really make him a good scientist.

It's difficult to "philosophy" about science without crossing boundries. Things like math are not up for "interpretation" they are right in certain cases (possibly all known cases if it's an accepted theory).
But as soon as you "interpret" that wrong... well.... I guess you'll understand it :p

Maybe it's better put to say that he is often "searching for and re-explaining the meaning of words". While especially physics is a heavy math related subject.
So the scientists in this field come up with analogies or examples which they can phrase and explain to others. So words have a strict and fixed meaning. Or at least you attempt to describe something as closely as possible using carefully picked words.

So the 2 fields collide when you start to question the meaning of words while still keeping the rest of the explanation in tact..... and well I'm a scientist so I think Bas is not really asking useful questions.


I mean when you're asked "think up different ways to prevent stealing of bikes" and your first response is "maybe stop labeling it as stealing" then imo you're an idiot :p

Usually when I hear him talk I go: ok he doesn't understand physics / math / computer science / chemistry

I always laugh when you say things like this. Must be hard being so intellectually superior to everyone

I'm not intellectually superior to everyone. Actually I think that all people are equally 'good' in general but some just focus on one area more than others.

Personally I foccussed on math / computer science and I enjoy a bit of physics.

Others (like Bas) focus more on formulating stuff and write books etc.
Problem is that Bas is a philosopher who writes about physics but can't fathom things like infinity or determinism or clinically dead.

And well if you don't understand the science then you are not quite qualified to jump to conclusions about them.

There's something about sexually appealing women and celebrities which makes people act like retards near them. People seem to find wisdom in crock of shit coming out of their mouths, any comment written is instantly a gem and everything they do is given 1000 times the attention of a regular person.

What we are talking about is largely a man problem.

I have personally witnessed the type of woman Liefje refers to in one instance. These women put cleavage pic and name themselves pinkprincessponiesquakress, because it works. Men are bunch of fucking idiots who let women control them. In their loneliness and desperation they think that these online fantasy girls actually give a shit about them, but they are only there to take advantage of vulnerable guys, drain their affection.

accidental plus

there's no such thing

conscious plus

I've seen a 'girl gamer' call herself Blitzkriegqt. Often tweets her Razer gear so everyone can see what a gamer she is.

You made me google her, found this:WoW is the only true legitimate eSport.

Fuck this.

lol, I didn't even try to find her. I've just seen her a few times on Twitter because I follow Razer (why do I even do that)..

http://i62.tinypic.com/9zvl2w.jpg

didnt listen but im sure its as shit as zoot overlays

Positive as always. :-)

its my fucking trademark, isnt it? :D

Right!? Max 1200 ELO overlays.

depends on a day.

125FPS were/are horrible, while i liked sweden championships overlays.

i'd say 1250 max

I enjoyed that. Good work!

Liefje is from Netherlands or did I miss a joke ? :)

B O O B S
O
O
B
S

She has tits.
She likes Quake.

Theres really nothing else positive or noteworthy about liefje.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_e...Opu_gBJeDw

also how2embed

Quake girls? how2inbed?

[ youtube= ] minus the space after first bracket and minus space before last bracket

she seems to be a scientist, she's pretty smart and humble.

you, on the other hand, are a disgraceful clown. there's really nothing positive or noteworthy about you.

Not even tits.

haha touche

Say what??!

STFU!

She's been involved in the quake scene for a long time and has been to many quake lans both as a player and a spectator. Besides she's smart, funny and aware of what's happening and what should be happening regarding quake and its future.

I'd say she's very qualified to be starred on this show, especially with the topics of this edition. Personally I really enjoyed listening to the whole thing.

But you probably could've figured all that out by yourself, simply by listening to the show before commenting.

Spoken like the 12-year-old that you look like

I really dont understand why people love these old casters so much. They still do plain play-by-play and in the case of djWheat, + annoying voice

Btw thanks, i do try to keep dat skin lookin fresh

Get well soon

You should know somebody before saying that.

For the next Talkink episode, have hitsu as a guest.

Mariusz Hitsu Pudzianowski

hahahhaa

when i was in secondary school, we had this stupid culture releted bs subject. to pass it we had to make some pp presentations, and we made the teacher belive there was a student named Mariusz Pudzianowski in our class, who sadly couldnt attend because he was very sick and stuff.

she belived.

everyone made fun of her, even other teachers :D

The power of power point is overwhelming.

ms taking control of our life with it

can i be a guest ?:)

Only if you promise to perform deadly jump from the roof to bucket of cum.

?

cmss scores again with his incredible stupidity

putting a ? is stupidity enit, clearly saying " Only if you promise to perform deadly jump from the roof to bucket of cum. " is not stupidity, k then

Back in about 2001 roughly I played ra3 all the time and the clan I was in was ran by a woman, I don't remember ever seeing her getting any shit or people generally being immature about the subject. Everyone knew the player was female and was treated much like anyone else. Her own attitude also helped as she didn't flaunt the fact she was female and just played the game.

The internet in general seems to be a lot more immature nowadays, obviously due to more people using it now than back then. And of course the anonymity.

[2DIE4] Fembot..... she showed me her tatters on webcam in 2002... i guess she just wasn't that into you...

kind of like when you went to prague lan

shots fired

what happened in prague stays in prague

You have to be somewhere to leave something.

My dear midlands matey, you have to leave somewhere to be something.

To be serious for a moment I have to agree that circa 2001-2003 the european ra3 scene saw many girl gamers, there was even the [BGC] Bad Girls Clan, all women, all mediocore but having fun. What was interesting was how they were never prey to sexist remarks as they played as a team, knowing full well that they'd be victim to abuse if playing random ra3 pubs on their todd..

Same problem just a different generation i guess. Another factor is how the internet gaming scene was more in its infancy back then and such advanced trolling and online ego tripping were little developed.

what about the girls who know little to nothing about gaming and point a camera right at their chest, aka the majority. you cant complain about attention when most of the girls in gaming want attention. the biggest complaint they have is the trolls are taking attention away from them which is kind of funny. Liefje truly is a minority. Also the white knighting, I guess I've white knighted for ddk in the cs streams then :)

I also don't buy men not being objectified by looks the first guy who is in the slightest bit overweight is called fat. stermy and even ddk are called gay for how they dress quite often just dressing nice makes you gay apparently. It goes both ways really. It does seem more socially acceptable to insult men though. Its mostly taken in a jokingly manner, even if it gets personal. You are also allowed to compliment guys with out being considered creepy too though, the instant you compliment a female its considered creepy in the gaming world. A lot of double standards going on.

I think everyone gets objectified by appearing fat or dressing 'differently' - You haven't raised any points that apply specifically to men. Unless you really don't read chat on any stream, you'll notice how intensely obvious it is that women will take more heat for their actions/appearances.

I also think you've misunderstood the term 'white knighting'.

why does it have to be specific to men? I'm saying both sexes are objectified by looks, you want to talk about vile in a chat you must have missed when demon hosted face it. Demon is perfectly normal but the vile that was in the chat was worse than what happened when liefje hosted. People were banned for saying liefje is good looking, no one was banned for insulting demon.

Like you being tall and ins being short you might be good sports about it but not every guy is like that, I stopped making ins is short jokes because I have no idea if it does or doesn't hurt his feelings. I would also never expect him to have to come out and say if it does or doesn't because if he did it would just get worse probably.

the white knighting was more of a joke about ddk being so good looking he gets the men rowdy

it doesn't and that's why they are being made so loosely.
the fact that both sexes get objectified for their looks doesn't make things even.

Its not even because people only care when its done to a woman if its done to a guy hes either told to toughen up or its just a joke like teen queen said above it was not about casters being objectified by looks it was about female casters only.

if people cared when it's done to a woman it wouldn't be happening as often

yeah.. every comment about ins being short has pretty much always been purely observational. With dem0n? Pretty sure it was the same as well. Please tell me when a male streamer is being spammed with maliciously sexualised comments, so far I have not seen it.

I dont know how that is different from a guy saying hey liefje you are hot, and immediately getting banned.

if hey liefje you are hot was the extent of the problem there wouldn't be a problem at all. and no one bans for that.

Their is a lot of sick people who get very sexual, but you also mix in a lot of normal compliments to females as sexual too, its like you cant say any thing good or bad about a female with out being persecuted. I said something nice about her? I obviously want the V.

you're right about male streamers receiving nasty personal comments too. You're also right about the double standards. I probably have major confirmation bias. It's good to stick up for people regardless of their sex, who cares what anyone thinks. It's also good to say nice things. "White knighting" isn't necessarily a negative thing, although it has negative connotations.... There's just no winning :\

I think the blame falls on the media who blatantly turn women into sexual objects so everything,involving a man and a woman relationship has to have some degree of sexuality to it, and any guy who is just a friend with a girl is "friend zoned" you can't just be a friend. That is the media these young gamers are learning from too.

A lot of it is just trolling too, they will just try finding the right button.
When dealing with a minority they will go straight for that topic.

I used to watch perfectlegends streams he was routinely called the N word for no reason.

In a very old article GGL-Alien brought up great points about female gamers it was around the time the mrs quakecon happened, he felt separating the women from the men was degrading to the women, as far as esports is concerned it seemed to send the message women weren't good enough to compete with the men, I don't know if you agree or disagree with that stand point. At the same time it did bring a lot of exposure to women in esports. That could be the origin of what I see a lot men thinking a girl can't be better than them at a game, which brings the attitude of she just wants attention even the girls who are very serious about gaming get wrongly categorized by those kind of people.

Yeah, theres no denying the role of media. also historically, most cultures have been strictly patriarchal and half a century of feminist movements isn't enough time for a full paradigm shift (as well as neo-feminists that see 'equality' as preferential treatment). Theres a large combination of factors so the blame can't really be attributed to one. also, gaming is seen as a boisterous hobby.

yeah, the fighting game community is really intense with racial slurs.

Well about tournaments, I think competitive and casual gaming are mutually exclusive. I'm more in favour of a bottom-up approach. The more females who play casually, more may become interested in playing competitively, and will just enter any tournament that's on offer. female tournaments send mixed messages. Luckily, we don't have to worry about that in Quake (edit: anymore) ;P

it all will change over generations. in my punk concerts time, there were 5% girls. now a sick of it all concert has 50% women. could be the best dating place ever ;)

Well, I think you're censoring it all quite a lot. Doesn't stop me from thinking that the fact you don't recognise the difference is pretty much your own problem.

Maybe not your own problem, maybe it's actually the problem we have at the moment.. people seem to think all 'abuse/insults/comments' have the same implicit impact.

The main difference is I've never seen a guy try to sell his looks I've seen plenty of females do it.

Indeed, that was a large part of the discussion that Koziol and Liefje had on the topic. Also note that some women bring the flame on themselves. But also a lot of women don't and still get the same treatment.

im sure ddk gets plenty of it :D

Stermy and his brother during Quakecon.

that's cause funnyb doesn't stream anymore

> I think everyone gets objectified

Agree 100%

For example, I try to see you and ins for the men that you are. It all falls apart whenever you switch to the webcam(s) and I see your beautiful eyes and ins' manly moostache.

I'm not trying to say I'm right you are wrong Zoot just saying what I've witnessed across both sexes large and small streams across multiple games, liefje is right it is a lot worse outside of quake. Which means female gamers should play more quake obviously. The Dem0n thing pissed me off too because hes so nice and didn't deserve any thing like that. It was sickening to see the same thing happen to koziol too. The internet is where everyone is fit and trim apparently nothing else is acceptable.

I just think any one who tunes into a gaming stream and judges people on their looks regardless of sex is a complete moron. Looks in a gaming stream to me are if you don't have any thing nice to say don't say any thing at all. (and obviously not being a horny weirdo)

It's not even just on streams. xbox live, over microphone can be intense.. and liefje received those comments without streaming.

Being called a noob a couple of times does not equate being harassed in the way liefje and other females have when they game.

same thing happened to zanzan just the thought of it being a female gamer no proof was given to the chat and she was viewed differently (still not sure if its a he or a she) its harsh to say and I have the utmost respect for women but when its possible, don't ask don't tell. If streaming and its no choice have solid moderation.

Stay out of the forest if ur afraid of the wolf.

Basically, it is the internet, and its gonna get worse before its gonna get better. And people just have to accept it. I for one have also been "victim" of the internet, where people just harrass you for no reason and so on, but that doesnt stop you from doing what you do. If you have strong beliefs/convictions about something, (yes, even quake), you will learn to ignore the harassment.

*popcorn&soda*

this sexism conversation is pretty awesomly retarded :D

kind of like yourself

get some popularity before you talk to me peasant.

god i feel dirty now

thats what im trying to do by insulting you

dont talk to me filthy peasant.

ur not worthy enough

raged pole

my god, ur so filthy i can smell your stink over internet

stfu u fat fgt

this brief exchange was the highlight of the thread for me

peasant, if u beg nicely i can lend you some soap.

Don't you dare desecrate this thread with one of your shit wee comments I see daily. Sexism is fucking amazing so you should show some respect.

Sexism is fucking amazing

hahaha so mad, so stupid, so dirty.

such peasant

oh shit you actually are retarded, i thought you were just trolling. sorry mate

thats all u got?

knew ur just wasting my time, filthy peasant

Gotta agree that sexism conversations are often redundant, stating the obvious and boring.

Ironically a podcast about sexism has a theme song that is sexist.

Great podcast though. :)

Enjoyed it despite disagreing with almost everything =)

I just caught sponge a little drunk on irc last night so he spilled the beans about some features of QL2.0.

He said there will a lady mode, which will have visible spawn points and item timers during game. They will also spawn with the three major weapons at half of pickup ammo. It will also have tiny strafe and aim assist.

rofl

trollink is danger

http://readyupradio.com/
http://www.twitch.tv/readyuptv/profile/pastBroadcasts

we fought for thousand things in quakelive, and now its "too hardcore"???

from customer place yes it is.

i actually like koziols idea of marketing it as the most hardcore fps game. considering how much success Dark Souls had, there quite big chance such strategy would work.


however it would require a lot of work on ql, some kind of quake school, so people would know they just bad and not hardcore enough, instead of blaming the game for being stupid.

hehe, most hardcore fps game.

some what koziol say is strange. could be jokes. it sounds like, whatever id is doing with quakelive, is wrong everytime. thats not my opinion.

and where is the logic in "we wait for ql 2.0" but nowbody knows whats innit :)

i actually think ql2.0 wont be much different in term of gameplay.

imo its just a marketing name for a game that didnt sell itself in the first try. so they will change some shit, like payment model, change the website, add some more support for casual newbies

cant say much to that.

i will never ever wait again for something. wolfenstein 2009 (mp) and brink teached me: dont believe the hype. i cant get over it that the esl said brink would be an esport game :D

not everything is wrong but many crucial things are.

i actually like koziols idea of marketing it as the most hardcore fps game. considering how much success Dark Souls had, there quite big chance such strategy would work.

It is an interesting concept but it has some flaws for multiplayer. I can see how hard SP games can be attractive as you go through this self torture to beat the bloody thing.

However, for a MP game it seems like saying you are noob and gonna get stomped. When playing others people want to have fun and an equal footing. It might feel good to beat a hard level after many tries but winning a duel of getting stomped 50 before is just demoralizing.

You can market it as having a steep learning curve with plenty of growth ahead of you to elevate yourself above others but it needs an equal footing for newbies to jump in and have fun games to begin with. In theory quake is just that but it lacks the entry step newbie player base to begin with.

yeah, the concept needs a lot of polishing.

Well online gaming is not too old. At the eariler days most of the online gamers were basically 8-14 years old boys (kids). Also you could say some of them had problems irl, especially with girls, thats why they ran into gaming. This is the reason why gaming is still considered lame & nerdy, because mainly introvert kids played seriously. Of course when these kids meet a girl online, they wanna get the attention that they cant get irl, so thats why they act like retards.

What I wanted to say here is... girl gamers are different and they will always be treated differently in the online world.

Quake community however is pretty grown up now, so their attitude is more mature, but in other communities you can still find the frustrated 8-14 years old kiddies.

didnt listen the podcast btw :B but will listen once mayb :p

Well online gaming is not too old. At the eariler days most of the online gamers were basically 8-14 years old boys (kids).

Just no.

online gaming started 20 years ago. doom, quake1.

Turn-based RPG games on BBS's are older than that.

is Liefje the one that did a train @ Qcon 2006 I think???

train?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=train

LOL

Wish I was a girl gamer so I could paint my nails.

You don't have to be a girl gamer to paint your nails

You would know.

As I am one of the woman in chat.. this sentence already lets me cringe, because ideally this just shouldn't be an issue. Whether I'm a woman or not, I am here to watch video games and I participate in chat because I think it's fun. I also like to joke around and read shit comments. What I don't like is being immediately reduced to my sexual organs and ability to prepare meals. And it's not equal, consider I make a comment on males dicks every time I see one, like: Hello, dick, are you big? Maybe that would be the kind of message they would understand, just an eye for an eye. Because what would come with it, nothing else would be interesting for me, not even how good you are at playing video games. Not what you say or think about, just your dick. The term "objectifcation" doesn't come near that, it's more like a reduction. Objectifying someone is like others already pointed out more common and can happen with anything, someone can be objectified for his/her brains and other skills as well, it leaves a bitter aftertaste of being used no matter what for, but about sex it's particularly sensitive and ugly. I personally think that one can treat another human being kind in any situation, even a prostitute (to take an extreme case I have been thinking about, I personally don't like it, but as it exists, why not take the most extreme case), when it's explicitly about 'using' someone for your own satisfaction. What counts is the feeling you have towards that person, to not reduce him or her to some aspect and take her or him to be some kind of puppet (object) that only exists to satisfy your needs, but accept that there is a lot more, you might call it dignity, that one shouldn't violate.

I thought about it because after I complimented casters appearance on chat, I also felt - and especially after reading comments about that in chat - that it was a little off. But then I thought: No, why should it be? I will probably not make such comments in the future nevertheless, just because I don't want to risk it, but personally I don't think that categorically saying complimenting looks is sexist and should be banned is not the right way to go. Anyone with a sense for human dignity - and not only your own! - will see where the boundaries are, maybe some are just not that mature.

And maybe to the "white knighting" because it came up as well, when I tried to counter all the ugly comments on dem0n with saying he looks cute I thought maybe I shouldn't have done it because it diminished his dignity in the sense that it assumed that he wouldn't be able to take it as it was (just shitty comments nobody needs to care about) or that he would be perfectly capable of answering it himself.
The same with woman when men "white knight" them. It's kinda nice, and in some situations I just have to confess I am really not that strong. For the feminist cause I know I should be, but sometimes, well, I try to toughen up for the sake of it, but maybe there can be a way to make it more like a help you would give to anyone regardless of sex - consider a situation when someone is getting beaten and you step in, something like that, its got nothing to do with being a woman, it's just what brave and decent persons would do.

Now that became a long comment.. but I thought it would be best just to write my thoughts, I'm not fit enough to shape it into an essay or boiling it down or sth, those interested will read it, the rest won't care anyway.

You all look like green robots to me .. easy to kill green robots or harder to kill green robots.
No room for personalization or "objectification" of the said green robots :)..
The moment you try/want to attach a "person" to that green robot you should expect things will get out of scope. This thing happens for everyone and is not gender related.

just my 2 cents.

Just a song I like related to the topic:



And for the complimenting thing, I'm not yet done thinking about it. I guess everybody likes to get positive feedback, but when it comes to looks it becomes somehow suspicious. But the zoot-hair thing wasn't taken to be in any way sexist, even if focused on looks. So it's possible to take something as a joke or just a positive remark and as kind of an insult at the same time, depending on who says it and in what kind of situation. And when I am saying something as a woman it's immediately scrutinized to the point where I think *** it, just keep your mouth shut. Sometimes I like to post things just because I think it's funny, but when I think of all the fuss that's possibly made out of it, holding it to any ethical or intellectual standards possible, I'm holding back and that's exactly how I don't want a thing like Quake chat to be, it should be some kind of playfield, right? Even for experimenting, I mean sometimes when you want to get a clear grip on a matter you just have to confront it, even in a provocative manner. And I hate limitations, especially when they are unnecessary. And if they aren't I would like to ask casters to say how they are feeling about it, end of story.

wut?

pretty sad when the camwhores can make more money keeping thier clothes on @ twitch vs taking their clothes off @ camwhore sites