If Wonko is down with it I'm willing to cast again. It was my first time casting so no doubt it was awful for some people.

I'll make the effort to try to get as many top NA players as I can interested. I'll be getting in contact with them and hopefully they will play. I'll remind them a few days before, and the day of. If there's anyone you want to see compete I'll see if I can find them and get in touch.

Watched the VODs after the fact. You two were fine. Have to start somewhere. No easy task to just jump on the mic and then proceed to talk for several hours...

I tought you guys did pretty good actually.

u weren't bad

just stop saying that the stream is fine, because looks good to u, when others complaining. It is annoying and dump to think that because it is good for u, it is good for everybody. U are not everybody. The stream was good for me as well, but I am sure whoever complained wasn’t lying and the stream had problems.

other than that, u were ok

I watched some of the VOD's from last week and was decently entertained.

Hope you can get a weekly thing going with good comentary.
I find a couple of decent casters make the whole deal that more entertaining and worth following, even with mediocre matchups than top player matchups with none at all.

glad for the response. hoping to do this regularly so i can actually improve my casting. not to mention it was the first time for gillz so things should definitely get better as we go along.

sweet, looking forward to it

Nuttybro, bucking the standard competitive map pool including hektik and excluding ztn, realizes a truly competitive map pool is all about balance. Namely the balance of his 1059 tracked duels, 58.26% of which are on ztn and 0.76% of which are on hektik.

http://qlranks.com/duel/

To make matters worse, DM17 and Hellsgate get played more than Hektik does.

this is pretty hilarious. ztn is a FAR more popular map than hektik in general. not to mention that a significant percentage of good duelers dislike hektik (something i disagree with but they feel that way none the less).

ur beginning to see things that just arent there. i personally would like to see the map list changed from tournament to tournament. but to claim that the current maplist isnt balanced is just bull shit. it already has 2 super fast maps in aero and toxicity. i wouldnt add hektik to the map pool without removing one of those 2. if anything id like to see ztn (or t7) replaced by t4. mostly because ztn and t7 i feel are too similar.

I suppose I don't see where I claimed that the current map list was or was not balanced. I just noticed that the person who determines the map pool has his most played map by far in it; at the expense of another, newer map that has taken ztn's place in competitive play. The same map that hasn't be used at a competitive lan in quite some time.

Does a map's popularity have a positive correlation with its quality? Does it have any correlation with its quality? The Quake community has always been extremely reticent to accept the new. That combined with Quake Live's split between premium and non-premium maps means hektik never really stood a chance of being played much. It seems only the extremely small competitive community or the even smaller amount of people who do enjoy playing new maps are the only ones who gave it a shot.

Your initial idea of balance seems to be formed around the speed at which a given map is played. However, I feel the style of toxicity is quite similar to ztn or t7, they all rely on trapping your opponent.

To your credit, you also bring up the idea of map balance around the given selection of weapons. I, too, would like a non-lg map like t4 in the map pool. I would prefer a new non-rg map to take dm13's place and a new non-lg map to be added, however since we're entirely dependent upon id to add new maps I won't be holding my breath.

so what exactly is your point regarding ztn/toxicity? are you saying you want maps which dont revolve around trapping your opponent? thats almost like saying u want to play open combat on ra3 style maps. ql duel is always about trapping your opponents, whether literally or figuratively. unless you have an overwhelming advantage in raw skill its always about reducing your opponents choices to a point where u can win a fight with him (thats my definition for trapping). and no toxicity doesnt play anything like ztn to me. u almost always know exactly where your enemy is on toxicity, while in a good duel u can spend a significant amount of time trying to guess ur opponents position on ztn.

the only reason i brought up ztns popularity was because u brought up the point about nutty liking it. how popular it is among the general population is as irrelevant as how much nutty likes it. its a good map. and its been in the duel map pool for most tournaments for a long time. yes there are things broken about it (hello spawns), but over all it's no worse than any of the other maps.

anyways enough of an argument over whats basically a matter of preference. if you really wanted to change the map pool, i suggest you give solid reasoning as to why hektik should be in, rather than talk about your preferences or the admin's.

Well, my well-reasoned in-depth post just got eaten by the forum gods. To be as brief as possible:

Your leading questions/allegations are "pretty hilarious." To that end, I'll completely discount your first four statements.

If you spend a significant amount of time trying to guess your opponent's position on ztn allow me to help you out, pg ya or rl teleporter ya. Oh, if you're out of control you don't have to guess, just wait at pg ya or rl teleporter ya until you're 100/200. Then you and your opponent will both know that eventually you'll go to mega!

I actually don't almost always know exactly where my enemy is on toxicity. If I did, I'd probably always have my rocket or rail out to cut him off. I'd also probably never get cut off by my opponent's rockets and rails. You'd think if people knew their opponent was at ra on toxicity, they wouldn't go through the water tele ya, that they'd back up after taking it instead. Either A) all the people who go through the water tele ya only to get railed are complete idiots because they knew there was that possibility or B) they didn't know their opponent was there!

On the nature of traps... suffice it to say that no, I don't consider hub to be in that category of map. If you need me to spell it out I probably couldn't do a good enough job of explaining it in the first place.

Nuttybro has 617 duels played on ztn and 8 duels on hektik. Do you think it is possible to competently judge a map on 8 duels?

"Solid" reasons for being pro-hektik: more entertaining to casual observers; its freshness allows for more experimentation - for styles individual to each player to surface (I still remember DaHanG would often get exact time on mega and steal it by rj'ing from rail, I still remember czm's pixel rails from ga-side rl and rg stairs, I still remember rapha completely ghosting cypher at Beat It - something which shouldn't be possible on such a 'fast, open' map).

"Solid" reasons for being anti-ztn: stale gameplay - the last novel thing that came out of ztn was walter 4x pummeling someone out of rg teleporter, how many times do you need to see someone wait out the entire game at pg ya or rl tele ya before you've seen enough? you mentioned the spawns, specifically the initial spawns which can completely break the game, zzztn

My reasons can still be considered a matter of preference, I suppose. To that end let's honor the world's greatest gamer fatal1ty by having nothing but bo3's on dm17.


*Edit*
On a final, more serious note (my initial post was supposed to be nothing more than a semi-incisive mildly witty observation, apparently hubris struck again)...

I started dueling in open beta. When I started the first map I learned was t7 due to its very newness. I am under the impression that one of stated objectives of this tournament series is to get newer Quake players into duel. Ztn, hub, dm13, even t7... they've all been around for at least 3 years (ztn and hub since Quakeworld!). The only 'new' map (if you can even count a map ported from Quake 3 as new...) players new to duel can make their home is toxicity. It's not a very friendly map if you're at all imprecise about movement.

Hektik could be the fresh duel map to some new player that t7 was to me.

i wasnt leading or alleging anything. nor am i a forum god which you'd know if you are around here enough. its odd how people take against anyone who expresses a strong opinion and suddenly categorize them as being "establishment". but anyways thats all irrelevant.

you make good points as to why hektik should be in. and good points as to why ztn should be out. but everyone knows this already. im fully in agreement with you that we should have newer maps as much as possible. i just dont think dropping ztn for hektik is the right way to go.

When I said "eaten by the forum gods" I meant I had typed something and the forum decided not to post it.

"are you saying you want maps which dont revolve around trapping your opponent? thats almost like saying u want to play open combat on ra3 style maps." I would consider this to be a leading question. It presumes an answer rather than assumes an open-ended response.

btw if u guys stream regularly try to get that quality switcher thing on twitchtv because not everyone has amazing net x_x or either stream at lower bitrate.

heya. this is not up to us. you get the resolution change option on your channel only if you are a partner on twitch. and you only get to be a partner if you satisfy certain conditions with regards to your viewership. you essentially have to generate a ton of viewers so it becomes profitable for twitch to offer you ancilliary services such as ads, subscriptions and the resolution change options etc.

sadly i dont see this happening for us. i will explore the option of running multiple streams at different resolutions. but not sure my bandwidth can handle this. perhaps i can have a co-caster (gillz in this case) run a lower res stream if there is enough of a demand for this. will keep you updated.

If you'd like, you'd be welcome to use my company's stream. We are partnered with Twitch and any income from ads goes back into tournaments casted.

Would be happy to talk to you about this. Also have XSplit premium which you can use.

do thissss

: )

The offer still stands for them.

Leerno if you are so upset with the map pool... don't play, or run your own cup, either is fine with me. I'm not going to change the map pool based on 2 people saying "replace ztn with hektik"

I think I may replace t7 with battleforged though and sInce 0.64% of your duels take place on it you are not entitled to an opinion on the matter....lmao.

I'm perfectly willing to play battleforged, I just can't find anyone who will play it against me. Up for a few games later?

*Edit*

By the way, making a comparison between battleforged which hasn't been played at lan since '10 Quakecon, if memory serves, and hektik, which has been played at every lan for the past.... 1.5 to 2 years is, in the words of wonko, "pretty hilarious."

*Edit 2*

You already changed the accepted map pool from hektik to ztn based on nothing more than 609 games of ztn. I personally think the words of two people more than make up for it!

it prolly isnt just 2 people. at least its going to be 3 cos you can count me in that pool. i think u should change the map pool to t7, t4, dm13 (only cos theres no good replacement), hektik and toxicity for next time. but just my opinion.

edit: xD leerno has now patented "pretty hilarious" on my behalf.

so gay

I would like to watch it so much! Was an amazing games at last cup

come on guys, enough bitching, let's just enjoy the competition, and please spread the word. obviously 4sg was impressed enough to give us a second run, so let's do well like last time

go z4!!

let's hope walter gets that mouse problem fixed!

he got a new mouse :)

The comparison was a joke, as I said before if you do not like the map pool...don't play. T4 instead of hub is "pretty hilarious" though.

Now for the reasoning behind my picks, even though I really don't need to explain myself.

It is the most played duel map in the game. Now if more than half of the people that signed up are newer players I pulled out of a random duel server, you can bet that a high number of their duels are played on bloodrun.

How would you feel signing up for a tournament with a map list you have never played? At least they have 1 measly map which at least they feel semi comfortable. Now you might argue "oh n00bs need to learn teh new maps". Well fact is bub, if some of these people don't sign up we are looking at less than 32 players per cup.

Now is there is the matter of the map pool as you want it. Hektik, Aerowalk, Toxicity, Lost World, FuriousHeights. 3/5 maps are premium, what does that do to non premium members? Pretty much tells them to get premium or be at a disadvantage. Which again may deter people from signing up, which I am totally against.

You may really hate bloodrun or really like hektik, with the new map picking system you can drop bloodrun as many times as you want at least. But with bloodrun over hektik being such an atrocity, I can't imagine you are even going to sign up. So I guess it doesn't matter.

At this point I will not be changing the map pool. In the future however if we get a consistent player base for these cups, I may consider expanding the map pool to 7, adding hektik and some other map, but again nothing is in stone.

This cup is about trying to bring bring new duelers in while giving some of the more seasoned players some competition. If you honestly believe having bloodrun instead of hektik is going to break the map pool, you are delusional and there is nothing I can do to help you.

I know you probably will try to break down my posts and that is fine, but the facts are the facts, this isn't a major event and you aren't running it.

tl;dr I didn't have to explain myself but I did anyway, the map pool is staying as is.

Right on! If they are so upset with ztn, they should go and start their own cups where they will have hektik, toxi and rest of those crap maps

Does this mean our date on battleforged is cancelled?

.

i wasnt choosing t4 or dm13 over hub. t4 and dm13 each support a unique gameplay style . i dont feel like theres a map in the current map pool that could replace either. i dont have a preference between hub and hektik. but i feel a 5 map pool shouldnt have both in it.

also about your comment somewhere up above about t4. i didnt play it much in q3 so i cant really compare how it was in q3 with how it is in ql. but its still the only map in the pool with positioning being so much more important than armor/mh. its meh at mid skill levels but then so is dm13. i think both should be left in but thats just a personal preference.

.

It wasn't bias on that factor alone, more the discrepancy of six hundred and nine duels between two maps that most would consider are both in the 'competitive echelon.'

Fucking NA drama. Jesus christ, no one cares. Everyone's bad except for rapha and ZeRo4.

Move on.

DaHanG top 5 in the world, you're jealous.

At one point, maybe. Now? No fucking way.

dahang is the ultimate dark horse and its all cuz of his aim, nigga shoots 18 percent lg and 30 rail wtf brah?

he came into ca everyone was like OH SNAP DAHANG! then i rage him in 3 rounds, fuck son gotta get ur aim up brah.

other than that, hes got MAD skill, true potential. he doesnt play at all for months comes back and shits on dkt so very fucking hard, dkt sucks, but dahang is my main nigga under the radar

dahang has sick timing too.

Still. He is a super human duelist.

what did being top5 at one point even do for him

i wouldn't be surprised if he wanted his time back

in your opinion

.

I actively asked him for a game on it once. He actively said no.

.

I certainly can't disagree with your assessment of the present.

.

u could extend that argument to ztn/dm13/aero too tho. i would drop all 3 if good new maps come along. in fact i think ztn should be dropped period. and no i wasnt assuming that all small maps are +fwd +aim. cmon im a cpm player i know the difference lol. but hektik and aero play fairly similarly imo. also im just bored of aero in general.

Thanks for doing this misters.

Need moar signups!!!!!!!!!

what nutty said, let's get more signups guys. if we can get more top-tier players too, that'd be cool.

Ready to get pooped on.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/52811-Can_yo..._Quakelive

it appears that rapha is playing.

(ty gillz for the link).

wow, if this is true that's really really awesome. maybe this will get more people to join/watch, and we can keep doing more tournies and get bigger prize pools in the future

im not sure prize pool matters that much. but any exposure is good. thinking about talking to them about coordinating a stream since they want someone to shoutcast for them. but not sure about it cos if they make me do something stupid like stream all of raphas games, well it will just be incredibly boring till like the semi finals.

I imagine that's exactly what they'd do.

please tell me how taking viewership away from the tournament stream will aid to more prizes :D ?

well, it could both add and take away viewship, though I didn't think of it like this. it could add more viewers since rapha will be playing, and it could take viewers away since there are alternate streams to be watching. however, I think getting more people overall is more important. plus larger viewership could lead to more people actually joining the tournies, which in turn I guess could raise pot prize.

damn that sucks. there should only be one stream. i tried 2 streams for one of my events last fall and it didn't do too well. it only hurt the viewership imo

If you guys cast my match, I will have a famous match that will attract a lot of people against any opponent. DANIEL PLAYING QUAKE.

Total Epicness.

Only signing up if wonko promises to stream my match.

no.

.........really?

why not?, I'll watch, I wanna see what this guys got in the chest / or see him fail :D

no wapha?

he is by the megger going for the wocket launcher.

rapha - zero4 in finals plz :)

rapha - all in !!!

Its supposed to start in 4 hours, but the bracket is full of results???

those are the brackets from the last cup. it isnt updated yet i guess

that link is from the last tournament.

old bracket

Hopefully dahang is playing. Wanna see him vs zero4 :=)

Agreed. I'd like to see Dahang back in the fold.

strong lineup in this cup

I'm staying up to watch this! \:D/

few more hours, will be fun. also, how do I check in? will there be a check-in button starting at 14:30 EDT?

mirc chan is ?

#4sg @ irc.gamesurge.net

PLAYING QUAKE ON GAMESURGE? FUCK YOU AMERICA!!

#4sg on gamesurge

ALSO CHECK IN

http://www.4seasonsgaming.com/forums/viewtopi...922#p35922

rapha, zero4, dahang.

looking forward to this.

I hope we get demos too!

i believe PYTON will be doing the best he can. Otherwise i can just uploading mine

RAPHA

whoever did the brackets is a fucking genius,

we can get z4 vs dkt (mad smack talk)
dahang vs walter (if he keeps winning and doesnt rage)

then rapha vs dahang = hope dahang wins

then z4 vs dahang (mad smack talk again, cuz zero4 fucking hates how he plays)

INCOMING JIZZ

nuttybro you nostradamus you!

why isnt there an option for quality on the stream?

this is only for "partnered" twitch.tv users

kind of a rail whore map pool 2bh

Without hektik?

Rapha was missing everything... guess it proves that you can do ok with bad aim but put him against strenx or cypher in that form and it won't be pretty :)

He had 70ms buddy ...

felt like ping wasent the issue but instable ping or warping w/e. ping 70 is fine with shaft and rail. there were a lot of situations where he just missed so much that it had to be something more but ping... not sure.

70 ping tx isn't a normal 70 ping, its fucked up son, the server has so many weird glitches that it isnt even funny

that serv used to get me ping 40, now its routing and shit makes it 70+ to MOST people its gay as fuck

Yeah because rapha is known for his supreme rg/lg. He depends on his rockets and sry but with 70ms it's kinda hard to fight someone with a decent lg. That push through the corridor at 50 bubble will never ever work on lan. Not to take anything away from dahang he played fucking impressive but to say rapha is done is just bullshit. Especially under these conditions.

his mouse :P

Well, Rapha is just getting into shape and steps it up for lan. Never underestimate rapha especially with aim. Ask strenx about rapha's 90% railgun against him at last dreamhack.

great tourny overall, thanks 4sg. also, thanks for sk stream and gillz/wonko stream, was fun to watch. stream quality was good on both. ggs

Shoutout to Gillz and w0nk0 for the stream.

Big thanks to mickzerofive and 4seasonsgaming for all the support.

Grats to Dahang for winning the cup.

And thanks to everyone who signed up and played, without the players none of this would be possible. It's so nice to see so much activity on cup day!

thanks to you as well :DD

Wow DaHaNG 5-0 Zero4's school of quake.... previously known as Makaveli's school of quake which came from Thresh's school of quake. Oh dangHang congrats and goodjob.

VOD is at http://www.twitch.tv/readyupradio/b/315124283

Dahang vs Zero4 - 3:22:00
Dahang vs Rapha - 2:56:00
Zero4 vs Dkt - 2:19:00
Dahang vs Walter - 1:37:00

I'll try to cut it up and upload to youtube.

are there any videos of Outlaw up?

HD VODs with Rapha PoV & Grandfinal with Zero4 PoV up @ http://www.own3d.tv/skgaming

All cut.

http://www.own3d.tv/skgaming#/watch/581896 - Rapha vs RudniK
http://www.own3d.tv/skgaming#/watch/581897 - Rapha vs jok0
http://www.own3d.tv/skgaming#/watch/581898 - Rapha vs Stevieju
http://www.own3d.tv/skgaming#/watch/581900 - Rapha vs DaHanG
http://www.own3d.tv/skgaming#/watch/581901 - Zero4 vs DaHang
http://www.own3d.tv/skgaming#/watch/581904 - Zero 4 vs Dahang #2

Enjoy.

Did I miss something? That's not HD...

fun day

honestly not having followkiller from the start was a bit annoying, but other than that 'twas a good cast with good quality

http://www.quakehistory.com/en/tournaments/0,138

Demos/vods will be there. :)

+ for cool site

a bit weird, when I tried to open the demos with winrar, I got an error 'unknown method' & 'no files to extract'. I updated my winrar, but it didn't help. In the end installed & succesfully opened them with 7-zip.

Thanks for this. I used PPMd as method compression. I will try to compress files with standard method then.

Yeah, please do so, had the same problem as the comrade above.

Fixed. :)

true:)

Lol at people going batshit insane because Rapha didn't win an online tourney. It's online, means very little. On lan, he ALWAYS delivers. People like dahang however... has he ever won anything on lan?

both IEM NA beating rapha? xD and Silent Gamers?

He only beat rapha in one of them.

EDIT: Here you go

http://www.esl-world.net/masters/history/#season4
http://www.esl-world.net/masters/history/#season5

moooar walter

Maybe this tournament will be a wake up call to the shitty quakelive servers in North America. Wait, no it won't.

DAHAAAAANG \o/