75 bullets.

makes it more ffa, noctis hits the like button!

I would like to try 75 before, but 100 does feel a bit to much at the moment :(

75! :C

i prefer it to 50, but of course i'm an ass noob
75 sounds senseful

For what its focus? ID make this change before biggest TDM action in QL histori....

uhm true the timing couldn't be worse.....years of 50 now few days before biggest QL TDM tourney ever LOL

Maybe some of the top team players desire was 100mg x)

let's run with gauntlets again
no thx

Give 50 with 5 damage please!

this

75

81 bullet!

75

75

69 :PP

same guy who thought ctf needed droppowerup..

is this an infinite series? I know; let's do 87.5 bullets. no, 93.75, or 96.875, 98.4375? if strenx has a machine gun and has fired 98.4375 bullets at an enemy with 4 health remaining, when does the enemy die as strenx's machine gun approaches 100?

lool

25/30 plasma? ;d

50 @ 5

75 @ 5

over 9000 plox

2 and 125 damage per bullet

100 bullets is well calculated. You should be able to take one fresh spawned player out with mg in my opinion.

100 bullets * 4 dmg * 30 % acc = 120 dmg = Health of fresh spawned player

so keep it.

I agree, has a better feel about it.

agree

no. who hits 30% nowadays?

go watch the jeesports cup demos/vods, you'll see why people want the ammo reduced.

Why should someone with 30% MG be allowed to take out another full health player? Good aim should be a requirement of being able to make any kind of impact with the spawn weapon, or we'll have every player running around knowing they can aim pretty poorly and still make kills with their starting gun.

[ + ]
either 75 or 5 damage with 50 >.>

30% mg is pretty average, decent aim. (obv if ppl are right next to each other you hit more but well..)
With more ammo the player with better aim actually gets the frag rather then it coming down to random pummeling.

Right on, and the averege player should be able to defend himself with mg. Not just people with strenxaim.

50 is way to low.. Never really saw the point of being made to conserve mg bullets.

100 looks and feels ridiculous.

Following the Jeesports cup the MG didn't draw my attention for a second, can't have been that much of it O.o There was even still fancy gauntlet usage; in fact a perfect and not "forced" amount of it (as opposed to people running around "blöööhh i don't have ammo kill me now blöööhhh").

Acquiring and exchanging weapons is still infinitely important and the team that to me seemed to be the best at it (among other things) well, won it all, including a final where shoutcasters (love you) went on about how much stronger colwn were at aiming.

Re: 30% accuracy being able to kill a fresh spawner -

What on earth is wrong with that? If someone fights another guy with MG one of them really should die eventually (unless they're horrid; i.e. <30%) before they're both forced to take out the gauntlet and/or run away. If one of the guys somehow has a weapon and still goes down to 30% MG... Pretty sure he doesn't deserve better :/

Less ammo and more damage would probably still be fine but you know there'd be crying over that too...


The Jeesports cup was fucking amazing. Want more amazing; tamper with caution :(

also enough nerfing damage on everything ever, fs

Good point.

5 x 50 (as it was before and always worked fine before noctis ruined it all:)

or

4 x 75

i dont know, didnt seem that eprfect to me. mg ammo boxes are devalued/useless. people dont have to think about what to "spend" the mg ammo on, they just spam.
and it was 5*50=250 before the dmg nerf and the gauntlet use seemed just fine, so 4*75=300 should be okay aswell, right?

it is better than before but its valid to ask the question "inst it too much now?"

4*75=300

haha indeed, thats not what i wanted to write ;)

come on, one more edit :@

just for u

people make mistakes, no need to get your panties in a bunch

huh? sure i did, but why wouldnt i edit it to be correct now?

You edited the response to me a couple times.

oh that, well i didnt want to come over a douche who tries to cover up his mistake but i wanted to say that i was aware of the fact that it is more potential dmg so i couldnt decide how to word it.
okay maybe you a right, i am pussy when it comes to stuff like this, i dont like to be misunderstood, i probably have the highest post/edit ratio ;)

edit: and now edited this again aswell

care about what others think too much

well thats something a bit different again, or a bit more specific rather
its not that i mind if someone doesnt like me or thinks that i am a moron but i dont like if that is because of a false impression or a misunderstanding

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some parts, no secret how I think a deathmatch game should be played (hint: lots of shooting).

5*50=250 before the dmg nerf and the gauntlet use seemed just fine, so 4*75=250 should be okay aswell

I reckon mathematicz be missin' a variable - time and what an armed enemy will do with 50% more of it (not to mention 100% more as it is now).

An armed enemy will (rightfully so) take less damage.

That wasn't the point, the point was that just because the damage*bullets ended up the same or similarly doesn't mean that the gameplay will be the same ("be okay aswell"), because if you need more time (more bullets) - especially as much as 50-100% - there's more time for you to go down or enemy escape.

He will rightfully take less damage because he's better equipped, but the question is how much less damage which will be less and less the weaker the MG damage is.

I didn't use damage*bullets to come to An armed enemy will (rightfully so) take less damage. I agree with your comment that using just that to gauge whether gameplay will be ok is wrong.

("be okay aswell")

no i said "and the gauntlet use seemed just fine", was no statement to gameplay overall, just picking up what you mentioned in your post.

well but then its not ammo but about balancing of dmg and thats a whole different story

Not really a whole different story, they're heavily connected (pretty much can't discuss one without the other); also there are plenty of comments here mentioning damage and when I made my reply the OP was different.

well the ammo count is a part of balancing aswell, sure, but this thread is about the right ammo for the current other factors. and discussion all other factors aswell would simply be a whole different discussion (that i dont wanna start here again cause we already had it 100x times)

Sorry man, this is all I saw in your post:

blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh blöööhhh

XD

(srsly tho I agree with your points; also have thirty tabs open and this copy-pasting almost killed my netbook, rofl)

75 and the last bullets makes 20 damage xDDD

Next funky edit will see your post nuked.

I want 1 poombala and 98mg so i can throw it in ure sad useless power tripping ass. pls shush and go home now!

NUKED MAN, NUKED

do you know what that means? HUH???

over 9000 bullets

100 ammo, but MG should become overheated after a while, allowing only some bullets to be shot in one burst.

4 dmg 100 ammo or 5 dmg 75 ammo
don't play quake if you hate shooting

don't play quake if you can't aim??

do you prefer random pummeling?

what? l2aim. most meaningful mg fights are short-distance, hitting half your shots should be possible if not, least you know why you died.

Who hits 50% mg?

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/statistics...fd90/tdm/1

But really, 50%, 60%, 70% are all more than possible in individual close fights. Overall is different obviously.

Can't see your game, I don't have prem. Anyways, of course it's possible, but hitting such accuracies against a decent dodger doesn't happen often. People that don't spam hit 45% max overall in top tier games.

ofc you and your mates hit 50mg while dodging decent rockets/lg/sg..
If you are talking about mg-mg fights only, I think aim should decide the battle, not pummel.

yes, i do and i'm currently playing div2 in cb oc tdm.

i'm primarily talking about mg vs mg close range fights, i wouldn't attack someone with rl/lg unless desperate and even then i would not expect to come out alive.

In close range fights the better aimer will still win. Other than that and finishing low hp opponents, 4dmg mg is still pretty much useless. You can't get into close combat vs rl/lg/sg, you can't even attack freshly spawned players if you don't have similar health. If you manage to deal 200dmg with your mg you got a) good aim b) good dodging c) good positioning or d) your opponents suck hard. Whats wrong with rewarding good aim/dodging/positioning?

Maybe 4dmg 100ammo is not perfect, but jeesports tdm didn't look bad at all to me. When colwn lost control control of red @ dm14 they kept cessing together, sacrificed some frags and regained control. Without 4 hitscan machines that wouldn't have been possible. Dominating a match with 30% mg maybe is possible if you got virgin media super dodging, I don't know.

Anyway, the "random numbers, trial and error" approach is lame. Is there no focus group testing anymore?
Your "l2aim!!!" argumentation is lame too. Could as well reason many stupid things with that. Lets re-introduce 7dmg mg. Too strong? Just l2aim and hit 50% lg to counter!!

In close range fights the better aimer will still win.
true.

You can't get into close combat vs rl/lg/sg,
you shouldn't be able to.

you can't even attack freshly spawned players if you don't have similar health.
same.

If you manage to deal 200dmg
a freshly spawned player shouldn't be able to deal that amount of damage with the starting weapon.

useless discussion tbh, i don't want to go to the lengthy part of explaining in detail why i believe things should be different, i just cba right now. it's seems rather obvious to me and it doesn't change anything anyway, as if id would listen to a bunch of forum posts on esr.

useless discussion tbh, i don't want to go to the lengthy part of explaining in detail why i believe things should be different, i just cba right now. it's seems rather obvious to me and it doesn't change anything anyway, as if id would listen to a bunch of forum posts on esr.

Well I'm not that kind of person who desperately tries to convince others on an internet forum. Both 50 and 100 ammo got advantages for different people. Depending on how aggressive your or the opponent team plays it might favor teamplay or might not.

i wasn't desperate to convince you, just thought that we might agree if we'd type this out.

my main point is that 400 damage is too much for a freshly spawned player to be able to deal out and 100 ammo is far too much (= players are able to attack off the spawn for far too long without having to do anything for it) and will lead to excessive "cess" once everyone realizes what they spawn with.

there's just no need to stack up much if you got 4x 400dmg when killed anyway, i don't like this kind of tdm, i want to force teams to control items/zones and get punished if they fuck up... your mileage may vary of course.

on the other hand... 4x 50 led to not being able (or rather... it was pretty hard to so) to finish someone when two people ended up fighting off their spawns, something i don't like either.

4 damage 75 ammo, increase fire rate x1.5

can someone enlighten me how this is important and what actually is different for tdm'ers now. why is it bad that respawners can actually do something until they get a weapon?

i understood why the shotgut nerf was good back then.. every quadrun beeing shotgun only was plain boring.. but whats the prob here? aint it better for spectators to see less player running around with pummel like garbage?

As the game type becomes more accessible to less experienced players, you can't blame the more experienced players if they feel a bit cheated. I don't play TDM but I'm guessing this is why a lot of people don't want respawners to be more powerful.

100 bullets reduces the reliance you have on your team, in a team game this is bad imo. With 50 bullets you know you have enough bullets for immediate self-defense and limited damage beyond that, then you'll be fully reliant on your team.

The number of bullets is irrelevant for defending yourself off spawn, good players are able to kill you before you've fired 50 bullets, nevermind 100. This means only the damage matters for self-defense. Then you have to decide how much damage you want to allow people to be able to do when they're being spawnkilled. In my opinion 5 per bullet is best, it allows you to punish an ineffective attempt at spawnkilling, which is something you should be able to do but that you can't really achieve with 4 damage MG.

I can't really buy into the argument that it's more interesting to watch someone run around with MG than pummel, I don't think either are that interesting, but at least pummel can make some fun kills. The interest in TDM for me is watching a team work together to control a map, take items and kill their opponent. This means when you spawn with your limited MG ammo you should look to get together with your team to work together to make whatever moves against the opposition, don't give them 100 ammo and watch them only loosely rely on help from their team to deal some damage.

When you had 50 ammo every shot counted, too many spam shots across a map at a target you could barely hit was a risk, because if you aren't able to find a weapon then suddenly you've got nothing to work with. With 100 ammo you can spam with far less restraint, this kind of "action" is not interesting at all as far as I'm concerned.

I could flesh this out a lot more but it'd be so long and boring really.

Most everyone agreed 50 was too little because of awkward pummel scenarios, but the other extreme is 100. A spawner can now dish out 400 damage with the starting weapon and he hardly has to think about ammo control which should be a part of the game. It undermines map and weapon control by offering effective mindless MG cess. Less MG cess is better for spectactors and makes for more enjoyable and strategic matches.

bring back ql beta tdm.
15 min, guns spawns 5 secs, +forward raping, camping rendered useless.
This shit fest of tweaking the smallest thing and expecting a mayor result is retarded.
The game reminds me more of cs then quake.

This shit fest of tweaking the smallest thing and expecting a mayor result is retarded.

huh? its about tweaking the little things, not about making major changes

What about 50x4 without that stupid mg spraying?

making it basically a weaker long range lg?

i.e. not a lg

osposposp

btw i have no idea how ql tdm is right now.

but anyways

well said.

osp had a 100dmg rail, no thx!

Ye, cool!

100 bullets equalling about 30% accuracy needed to kill a fresh spawner. 30% is an easy ammount to hit for anyone. If they pushed it to 75 bullets it means players woul dneed to hit just over 40% which is do able but it'll actually take decent aim. B<

or a ammo box

: D

: D : D

:D

just make it 1 Bulat

I think they should make the Redeemer the default spawn weapon.

Would heavily reward item control.

i like it ;(