inb4 czm educates

Continuous Assessment?

Practical/Course work?

coursework sucks
it means i cant watch tv now but if i had 100% exam i could =(((

for sure, but some people don't perform so well in exams, or are better at practical labs etc etc.

Examination only really isn't a fair representation of one's ability in the subject, unless its a "pure" or abstract subject like maths.

I have colleagues who are brilliant academically, but who are near idiotic when it comes to labs/practical work (doing electronics). They get really good marks in the exams, and pretty mediocre in the labs. I'm the exact opposite.

Especially whenever one leaves uni to go into the big world, a bunch of grades don't really say much apart from saying I'm reasonably intelligent and dilligent, and thats it.

I really think they should bring back more apprenticeships; pretty much everything you learn is directly relevant to your future profession and your earning money/paying taxes etc. Rather than contributing nothing to society for the length of your degree and pretty much putting your life on hold due to having no disposable income :/

So in short, I don't think everything should be exam only ;)

I have 10 modules this semester, absolute overkill,
and no extra time to prepare for the exams (they say you have to organize yourself better and learn also in lecture time, maybe this would be possible if there wasn't all the extra practical exercises/homeworks which are not really relevant in theoretical exams) ... dunno just the guy who can learn most in a short time wins this ... in my opinion, in this studys you are totally overloaded, and because you also have no time to prepare, you forget everything you learned in less than 1 month ... really you can't get deep into a subject and build up skill in something, it's just about aquiring theoretical knowledge, but not that much about building up real skill ...
so yeah, I totally agree, the grades for the exams are not really an indicatior about your sucess in real life ... you know I also played chess, there are many people who know all the moves in certain varations, and they know everything, these guys are probably king in passing exams with the best grades, but still they play like shit, because all this knowledge they have is not skill, but purely theoretical ... and I always wonder about these guys in university, they seem to learn so fast, etc. ... but still besides their studies they have not achieved anything in their life ... I think it is training from an early age in elementary school that makes people good in learning this theoretical knowledge ... you know they are better "trained" in passing theoretical exams, but that's all, it's just about passing exams, it's not really that much of an indicator if they really get something done in real life. Because real life is about skill and not full time learning, skill develops more slowly in real time practice, not in being able to learn theoretical knowledge in some sheets and a lot of mathematical equations not relevant in real life ... life is not about mathematical intellligence, but natural logic intelligence ...

bachelor? lmao@u

I completely agree.

I also find it incredibly frustrating to be overloaded in that manner, a situation which I have been in since the start of my third year. You just know you can perform so much better in certain areas if you were given more time, like my electronics labs. I could make more efficient circuits, use less IC's, have a significantly smaller PCB area used; if I only I could test a few more circuit designs. So frustrating >:-/

Not sure about yourself, but the university operates under the UCAS credit system for the worth/level of each course undertaken.

Each year a student has to take 120 credits; one credit is considered 10 hours of "university experience", which means ten hours spent either in lectures, studying at home on the topic, in the labs etc.

So all 120 credits add up to 1200 hours to be spend on university material per year, and each of our two semesters is 11 weeks long. This all works out to around 54 hours per week if you were to follow that criteria......

Some of my colleagues work weekends too (I'm fortunate as I made enough money over the summer); so for them to follow the official university standard they are to spend just short of 11 hours a DAY studying.

So, to match their standards you have to be a nuclear powered robot. For us mere mortals, it ridiculous :-/

I have 12 Weeks lectures, and 1 Week exams, and then practical lab/internship/project 1 month or 1,5 months.

I have 42 University hours (45 minutes) only presence in lectures/practical sessions, this does not involve homeworks and rereading the course materials and other so called minor stuff like printing all the sheets ... it's all ECTS points ... but tbh. in the germany university I was before I got the same amount of ECTS points doing only 6 modules, and only having 24 University hours and I was even given extra time to learn for the exams ...
before I thought ECTS points are an objective measure, now I know they are not ...

huh?

Here at my university, one Credit Point corresponds to 30 hours of work. (bachelor of science)

So a usual 120-minutes lecture (which actually only takes 90 minutes) equals 2 semester periods per week and rewards you with:
1 Credit Point for attending (15 weeks and 2 hours --> 30 hours)
2 Credit Points for all the other stuff (60 hours)

So you're telling me you HAVE to be present at the university for 42 semester periods per week? This ALONE would be 42 Credit Points.
Something isn't right here.

well, I think there are still differences between the countrys and also between the universitys, which are using the ECTS system ...

Why would you enter a discussion if you're not gonna answer a simple question?

It doesn't matter what you think but rather if there are such differences in 'modulhandbüchern' like the ones you described.

According to this, I don't think so.

you know, there are easy courses which everyone suceeds and there are other courses with a fail rate of students 70 - 80 %, both courses give you 5 ects, this is already there the ects system fails ...
or in some subjects, there is an exam, in others there is a project ...
can't be compared, and the list goes on ...
same in uni, my current uni says 4 university hours is 3 ects, other unis say 4 universityhours are 5 ects ...

same in uni, my current uni says 4 university hours is 3 ects, other unis say 4 universityhours are 5 ects ...

wtf?

4 hours of presence at the university (so actually only 3 hours) should give you 2 credit points.

Or do you actually mean some obscure thing you made up yourself when you talk about "university hours"?

You still haven't answered my question about the 40-odd hours presence thing, which sounded equally wrong.


and btw: courses with different types of assessments (exam, project, paper, ...) should be easily comparable, because the work you have to put into the course is expressed by the Credit Points.


edit: Ah, you're French. According to your profile, I thought you are German.
So anyway, you better show me your "contrat d'études", which expects you to be present at the uni for >40 semester periods per week. ;)

I am german ... I study in france ...
what should I tell you about the hours?
It's 42 x 45 minutes presence in lectures and exercises.

You know from Dipl. Ing. to master not much changed (besides one extra semester for the master) in germany ... same in france, they still have their normal university schedule from Diplome d'ingenieur ... they probably just know a semester has to be equal to 30 ects, and they probably said to themselves: "yeah, we currently have 10 courses, let's give each course 3 ects, et voila 30 ects" ... that's how it works ... and universitys with less courses in their normal diploma just gave each of their modules more ects to reach also 30 ects ...

or look at different study subjects, do you think social sciences/economy do put as much effort in their studys as engineers,
I know some economy students in my universitarian residence, they definately don't study as much ... but in the end they do also get 300 ects when they reach their master ...

so I don't want to talk anymore about this whole ects thing ...
the only thing is good for is that you your courses are valid in your home university when you study in an exchange program ...
so that 1 semester in the other university equals 1 semester in your home university and you don't lose time ...
differences still remain individually in the study programs between the universitys

It's 42 x 45 minutes presence in lectures and exercises.

my current uni says 4 university hours is 3 ects

et voila 30 ects

42 x 45 minutes presence equals 42 semester periods per week.

42 * 3 / 4 = 31.5

So your presence alone rewards you with 31.5 ECTS-Points?

How many ECTS-Points will you get this semester? Should be at least 31.5.

k,
8 x 4 hour module, each 3 ECTS = 32 hours, 24 ECTS
1 x 2 hour module (scientific writing) = 2 hour 3 ECTS
1 x 8 hour module (practical project) = 8 hours, extended to full time for 1 month after exams, 3 ECTS

lol, that's pretty fucked up.

The 4 hour modules and the 8 hour module should each be worth much more than 3 Points.

To be specific, here at my uni a 4 hour module (lecture) is worth 6 Points and the 8 hour module would at least be worth 10 Points, probably even more.


I'm surprised your uni is even allowed to handle it that way. :D

Each year a student has to take 120 credits; one credit is considered 10 hours of "university experience", which means ten hours spent either in lectures, studying at home on the topic, in the labs etc.

So all 120 credits add up to 1200 hours to be spend on university material per year, and each of our two semesters is 11 weeks long. This all works out to around 54 hours per week if you were to follow that criteria......

We have to take 60 credits per year, which are considered 30 hours of "work".
Given a 15-week semester this means we have to work 60 hours per week.
(bachelor of science)

thats very normal, when having lectures we had ~ 40 hours a week. When doing a project we used from 30-70 hours a week.

I think it's quite close to "real life" if you have to work with very little time, depending on the industry you're working in. E.g. for cars, some stuff has to be put in the cars even after they're already sold because development had too little time to include and test every bit of software. Plus, the additional benefit per work hour goes tits after a project is say 90% finished. You could always improve things a bit more here and there but it's way too costly so you rather don't.

Sure, I understand the point your making that things are cut really tight at times in many industries; however, that's your full time job, you will probably understand the concepts/how to do all of the tasks ahead of you to meet a certain deadline, unlike university where your not sure how to complete a task and you don't fully understand all the concepts behind it :(

I'm wasn't trying to say my course/uni was harder than anyone's, was just trying to make the point that it's near ridiculous at times for everyone at some point; I could learn the material so, so much better if there was simply less of it :(

I've been in situations with very tight deadlines when I was involved in motorsport (karting), when there are engines to be rebuilt, chassis's to be prepared, and long long hours are needed. I knew how to do it, understood exactly what I was doing, and knew roughly how much time it was going to take. If I encountered a problem, I knew how to fix it. It's light years apart for me.

Everything little thing at uni leads to an hour or two trying to get your head around it/get the damn thing to work. Your simultaneously trying to understand and figure out how to do something; which for sure will happen in the real world, but not every single task/project that you undertake :(

To finish this whine/rage post off, I also am annoyed that my course is way too abstract and that there is not enough practical work :-/

Whine over! ;)

you will probably understand the concepts/how to do all of the tasks ahead of you to meet a certain deadline, unlike university where your not sure how to complete a task and you don't fully understand all the concepts behind it :(

I have to say that by the end of my time at university I was quite good at knowing how to prepare for a test, indentify canditates for "short questions" and cram them into my head etc.

At least twice as efficient as at the beginning of my studies ;)


concerning the real job later on, I find it all really depends on what your job turns out to be. In my case, it's a lot of different stuff so I often have to learn something new. So it really happens from time to time that I have to go to a meeting, read a few files the day before and on the flight and am supposed to discuss what I read.

So, in a way it is very similar to exams. (with the exception that you should never ever tell them everything you know :P)

why do you have 10 modules this semester? voulanterily or were you forced?!

forced, it's the normal schedule

country?

france

Expect spam for pills in 3, 2, 1...

exams are mostly pointless and biased. + very boring to attend. :(

Oh you mean those things that test you on what you actually know? You're right, totally pointless. :D

Yes if they objectively did that, they would be rather good. But its only viable in a few fields of study. Written exams in math, physics etc are rather precise. But oral exams and fields with no "100% answer", those exams are biased and subjective and rather pointless.
I have managed getting from C -> A on pretty much the same performance just cause the examinator was biased. So exams are mostly pointless, and seldom shows the potential and knowledge in the individual. (after a life of studying this has become clear to me).

In real life you are hired on personal qualities and former positions, so the "exams" are not that important later in life.

ilike this

well no one gives a fuck about what you think you know or can do if you can't perform when you need to? :------D

(ask jamerio for expert insight)

love exams, if you know how to use literature you never have to go to stupid shit like labs and lectures. those are for the weakminded.

Hurrrr durrrr, I really wouldn't go to any labs or lectures when I pay lots of money for my education

0/10 troll

well that's the problems with your jew driven education. you pay a shitton of money for something chinise/russian/etc get for free.

Many people I know have gone to business school, and some have said the final exam is worth as much as 60% of their total mark.

Although, no, exams are not going to prepare you for the real world. Hands-on experience will.

heh, my final exams are exactly 100% of my total mark (if you include the thesis here).

"preperation of reading".... i wish that would seal the job.

I know I prefer final exams to be worth 100% over something stupid like group assignments. If they're properly made, long final exams are easily the best way of subjectively determining knowledge. Not perfect, you can simply get unlucky with the exam or have a bad day that day, but then you just try and try again. At the end of the day good students typically do well on final exams and poor students fail, as they should.

Also, are we debating a very peculiar spam account?

don't you mean "objectively"?

Heheh of course.

I think that the problem is the useless material they give you to study
many times they base the "what shouild students study" material on someone's book who has at some point been writting the book in order to get his personal status raised up, quite annoying as over 50% might be bla-bla that at the time you finished the school will be obsolete already

on the bright side, even if it were all up to date stuff, you most likely won't ever use more than 10% of it anyway :)

imagine a schools where 90% of the material would be usefull stuff for students
not too good as teachers might loose their jobs quite quickly
replacements ftw ))))

Do you want everyone to specialize in the same subjects? It's called general knowledge, there is no way around it.

general knowledge and showing that you are generally able to learn and somewhat understand the type of knowledge that is being taught.

I've had classes that were held by people who were actually working for companies and just did that on the side.


Didn't change much :(