This should be fun :D

why not just make the tourney in quakelive if its not cpm?

-Because it's a Quake 3 reunion.
-Because in Quake 3 we have 6 sponsored servers with which we can easily host tournaments.
-Because we can have custom map pools.
-Because QL is inferior to Q3
-Because it's for FUN and I don't feel like paying $48 to host one server.

-Because q3 has a decent spawn system.
-Because it has a decent ammo system.
-Because it has a proper timelimit.
-Because stuff can be voted.
-Because it has nomip.
-Because it actually works.
...

only thing that I agree on is timelimit and nomip ^^

QL is better than CPMA. OSP is better than QL and CPMA though!

Sure, OSP is perfect. But i find it frustrating that some of the few good things in QL get burried in the mud of bad features/bugs/we'll fix it in 2 years/omg-the new players/etc.
It makes playing QL a very unpleasant experience.
CPMA/VQ3, beside the too powerful LG, is good enough to be fun.

So, go Q3:D

I've grown quite fond of QL, fast and easy to get games compared to q3. Has a nice feel almost like osp.
I would not wan't to go back for sure.

I concur!

Die in fire.

maybe I will

Hi man! Do u have your demos from CPL? I want to watch your game vs Lakerman and Fatal1ty on hub3tourney1! Can u plz send it to my mail? [email protected]

CPMA is way superior than QL. It feels more like a finished product in many ways.

I agree with voting (which includes timelimit) the rest isn't true imo

all valid points too bad it means shit when it comes to the real deal =p


still...makes me wanna pop in the ole' q3 cd. Should be fun to watch

the real deal being quake 3, of course.

C Z M
Z
M

Finally, good quake news posted

great! miss q3

As do many of the participants :P

gtv?:p

gonna play? :p (or at least send some of your pro friends our way?)

But yeah, we'll get a GTV set up as well.

Sorry, my download link is currently down because I've gotten "too much traffic". :P

I'm uploading the files to another host now, and I'll edit in the link for it in this post later.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ECQBHEP1

Needs more cooller.

Bring him here, then.

In Soviet Russia cooller brings you

thx for the virus in the included file (uninstall.exe when you install the game with ezquake.exe)

haha, that polish installer thingy?

Why would a league put up a link with a virus included? This dropbox download has been downloaded by hundreds of people without complaints. It's not a virus.

To Avira AntiVir it is.

Maybe AntiVir is wrong but honestly, I just Shift+del'ed the whole thing right away.

I've downloaded torrents with keygens for WC3, D2, and Morrowind which Avira has recognized them as viruses. I kept them, scanned them, and nothing bad has ever happened. Sometimes Avira can be wrong

lol @ ur viruses btw

:D:D:D:

don't trust shitty antivirs

I've used avira for years... It's not a virus. Perhaps you have your detections set to "high", which considers an exe that accesses registry files (i.e. an uninstaller) and isn't from a "known" source, a virus (or at least a threat).

inb4 more parenthesis

fucking awesome, Q3 ftw!

maplist:
jof3dm2

?

Yes. We decided to throw a curveball.

i hope they mean pro-q3tourney4 because the normal t4 is shit without thrufloors :>

Ah, yes. Thank you for the correction.

I may join this just to add more participants, I'll get destroyed though

i signed up though i am only canon fodder:D

No dm17? :(
FU, i won't participate

lol

ROFL n1

just looked at jof3dm2 and it seems pretty nice, some1 got any demos? :>

Yaaay:D if my connection is all good I'll sign up!

go ahead and test everything you want on the two public servers

Anyway we can get a public tx server?

We had one, but I think it got extremely bugged. Waiting on a new one as of now. Just PM me in IRC when you want a TX server and I'll turn on the Tournament TX one.

Sounds good, thanks.

Looking for a 32-player bracket hopefully. Signups end October 17!

Spoke to AG-Whally about coverage but it's EDT (NY time) which can get pretty late (3pm edt = 21:00 CET) which is undoable for me atm.

dayum, Q3, good stuff!

is there a picture/banner for the cup?

Not really.

too bad it is this saturday so i can't participate with ping 130 :>

is there going to be another cup?

We host events bi-weekly, so yes.

nice :)

Support us! Idle and favorite our channel :) #AG.league on Quakenet

(23:11:46) —› now talking in (#AG.league)

done :>

Thanks, friend :)

> players old and new that you cheer on every big event.

That sentence should have been promptly removed when Gillz signed. nuff said

well aren't you a saint!

rapha has signed up. You're all doomed.

Nice !

Quake 3 <3

I would sign up and play, but i'm kinda inactive, bad computer and busy atm :(

GL! to all

rapha, zero4, czm..... will be intereresting

but jof3dm2? wtf

walter \o/

walter vs czm on oldschool hub = profit

Rapha is going to take a dump on everyone else. It doesn't matter QL or Q3, he would have been the best Q3 player anyways.

Your mistaking Quake 3 for an inferior game like Quake Light here. Quake 3 doesn't favor defensive rockets and isn't all about armor/health stack at all. There are more useful weapons in Quake 3 than there are in Quake Light.

I've been playing Quake 3 for almost 10 years and I do know exactly that in this very game there is more ways to take back control than just building up a stack yourself or railwhoring.

I'd assume, that rapha is having a hard time in this one. You can't convert a playstyle to a game which is that different from QL.

I agree, but for the sake of argument, he will be seeded #1 regardless.

You do realize he was first place at the last major Quake3 tournament before Quakelive? Taking out toxjq, cypher, av3k, spartie, jibo etc...

tl;dr He will have little trouble in this :P

That was one event for him to win, and beeing the last one I might question .the motivation for the other participants And the finals vs spartie weren't really that tough.

PS: When I'm watching the 3rd game on YT and see the first frag than I much more want the old MG back. :(

And seeing this games again, I also realise that in CPMA you could actually hear what your opponent was doing and where he came from. Unlike in QL where your clueless most of the time, without seeing what your opponent is doing.

Sound is so crucial in FPS, but after 2 years of "development" it's still broken and there's no fix to be seen in the future.

This is a multiview demo, it is not actual game sound. There is far more sound in this video than you can actually hear while playing cpma vq3.

But there is no picture in picture, so why should the sound of both POVs be mixed together. And it also doesn't sound like if that would be the fact here.
It just sounds like it did in OSP back then, where you could actually hear what's going on on the map, on which level the opponent is, where he comes from, and what items he's collecting, etc.

But you as an ex-CPMer should know the best, because I'm coming from OSP and rarely played CPMA and didn't need to.

PS: Even in no-MVD-demos just can hear almost everything. I just checked.

cpm and vq3 have different audio systems in cpma, so better check what gameplay you had set when you tried it

But there is no picture in picture, so why should the sound of both POVs be mixed together. And it also doesn't sound like if that would be the fact here.

...but that is exactly what happens with mvd demos :p there even used to be a bug where enabling mvd by a spec enabled super weird sounds for all players in the game.

Turning off the second pov window disables its sound. That's the fix for the HORRIBLE lg sound in mvd.

SO true :)

rapha was dominating American vq3 scene way before quakelive. Also he won the masters of Athens which had the best active international players at that point of time.

rapha was dominating American vq3 scene way before quakelive. Also he won the masters of Athens which had the best active international players at that point of time.

So, how come he was that successful? I haven't heard about Rapha before QL at all. And how could he sustain against players, that have been playing the game for several years and achieved alot of experience and combat skill at it? This is quite confusing for me...

Someone posted demos (Walter I think) of Rapha when he was called Scarface playing in a 2002 WCG LAN iirc. I think he even lost to Chance. Times have changed huh

I think he even lost to Chance. Times have changed huh

This is exactly my point. But he got trained by ZeRo4, so he didn't have to learn all by himself back then. Seems like he did capitalise enough of this training to win a tournament, in the end.

he didn't have proper internet connection until 2006

There has always been the possibility to do practice at LAN. So, not a valid excuse.

in order to get better you have to play all the time. i can't think of any other situation where you LAN all the time than living in the same house with someone who also plays the game i.e. having a brother. afaik rapha doesn't have a brother. and the skill level and variation in games is not effectively elevated if you only play the 1 or 2 people all the time. so yes, a valid excuse.

people get better over time, it's not an excuse but an observation? i used to play against noctis when he was silenoz and killsen when he was killer... they all improved massively over time.

rapha was quite known as a promising lan player under the nick scar/scarface who happened to not have proper inet access for years.

edit: i'm pretty sure the whole "zero4 made him what he is today" story is blown way out of proportion. they practised together when rapha got inet, so what...

How come there isn't one single freaking list to the tournament page in this post? :)

We don't have a site yet. Sort of in-between sites at the moment, but we'll have one shortly.

Got a GTV ready? : )

I can ask pikoh. He usually hosts it. But it will be streamed on tastyspleen.tv and quake-live.tv

why stream when you can have gtv...

Kinda like, why have no esr betting. When we can have noctis as admin putting betting fixtures up daily.

im not an admin tho, so no work \o/

:(

You should be, becks and xou never put any bets up anymore!

no q3 kangaroo man :c

omg, what have i done?!

xD

dem0n takes this.

edit: nvm found

jof3dm2

was that map played much?

anyhow - q3 duel tournament with rapha, walter, z4 and czm in this day and age???? def. going to watch this!

I'm completely joining you in this one, dude! ;-)

was never played anywhere, they should have rather picked pukka3tourney2 if they wanted a new map so bad

We'll be sure to take that into consideration next time

this made me laff.

This is actually pretty close to what comes to my mind, when I think about the development of Quake 3 and where it is heading now.

Have a [+], Sir. ;-)

Evolution is kind of a weird way to look at it, but at least it's heading in... sort of a direction aye

this picture is pretty much accurate.

FTFY

there

Promoder has meated too often

Hey look it's Liam modeling for CPM

He looks like he's lost some weight.

Add some stream links k.

http://tastyspleen.tv/live
http://quake-live.tv/

Just how did I not see that before. :@

I was REALLY looking forward to this, but I have to work today, I couldn't get the shift off.

I hope you keep running these cups :)

The Quake-live.tv stream has one of the worst, most horrible visual config I have ever seen.

yeah, they should use default visuals (high of course) with
cg_enemymodel keel/pm
and net settings only :|:|

and gibs!

Honestly, I'd prefer picmip 0 with viewmodels and higher gamma :|

Indeed :(

That would've been much funnier if Q2 and Q4 weren't on there, considering even a stripped down version of Q3 is still vastly superior to both of those, and Quakeworld imo but I'm not even going there.

QW and Q2 are milestones, just like Q3.

Q4 sucked.

QL is an inferior Q3 (feature-wise).

After all was said and done, and patched :D, q4 was a pretty good duel game.

The kind of complexity involved (skillwise&strat-wise) in Q2 is vastly underrated and apparently underreported. 20min 4on4 matches and 15min duels going on everyday in q2...and still highly entertaining(q2scene.net).

cpma looks like he's gonna shit himself


wp

Love how qw is the pretty girl :-)

qw ftw :-D

Pedo.

Hahaha. :o

^^

i guess what we can draw from the stream so far is that i hope to god quake live never goes to 15minute duels.

Was that like 60: -2 for CZM on Aerowalk against that poor guy?

yes and 82:3 walter vs it

GTV SPAM YAY!!!

CZM is a fucking monster on Q3 Hub... It's so funny compared to how he was on QL...

z4>czm :p

Yeah CZM looked burned out on those last matches :P

His spawn raping and movement earlier in the night was faultless though :(

map scaling makes a huge difference with in my opinion especially in aerowalk between QL and Q3

I can't move for shit in QL on aero :(

needs more ppl on gtv

Just to add another thing that QL is mindblowingly still lacking after fucking years of developement:

YOU CANT KNOW HOW MANY ITEM PICKUPS YOU DID IN A DUEL.
Fucking retards. It's beyond me. It's so difficult to implement a decent scoreboard, like the one in CPMA or OSP. Or even better, the custom one that Gillz did. That was neat.

But NO. Lets expend that valuable time trying how to annoy people by forcing them to watch adds.

Why waste time implementing features while in "beta" when you can hold off and add them so you can charge for them.

thats uhhh quite the config theyve got on qltv

OHH and just forgot:

Fucking LAN support.

It's cool how Syncerror ignored that request on that stupid thread, where he popped out of nowhere answering everyone's questions, apparently only the most irrelevant ones.

Q3 dmg + spawns = $PROFIT$

edit: managed to accidentally reply to you somehow. Anyway, QL needs to connect to ID's server (or whatever) to get ahold of account data etc, so LAN is a bit... bleh

Your point being?
How about a fucking OFFLINE mode that doesn't register stupid stats and so on. You could register online, get your account created, then you could acceed the offline LAN mode even if you didn't had internet.

Shit needs LAN in any case.

walter accuses cosmos (who's selling a SC2 cdkey, incidentally) of auto-firing.

Discuss.

A moron who sucked at lan and couldn't play a duel because he would choke accused some other random idiot.

Nothing to discuss.

.

I was talking about relevant duel, not beating 2 average players in irrelevant matches.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1491829

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x217/WaysOTS/av65hh.jpg

Discuss :P

fletch was an awesome movie

He shouldn't rely too much on this wrist rest bullshit. He should rather rest his forearm on a big mousepad.

wrist rests make aiming a lot more comfortable, as long as you set your forearm (not your wrist) on it.

o.o

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1971356

.

I honestly don't give a shit about your shitty achievements. Go take a pill and gtfo.

.

An idiot is someone who can't do nothing but play Quake and create ESR journals talking about how much of a failure you are.

real lol@ESR nobody. Guess you have to care about your online persona when you have nothing else to defend.

Relax schizo.

When will start matches on our time CEST ?

around 2 pm cst

gtv's ip anyone?

gtv is such a relief for the eyes

edit: relieve -> relief

GTV's multiview ruined with all these iOQ3 servers and the spec bugs.

I wonder why server admins still use CNQ3 or iOQ3 to run servers...

Can't say about ioq3, but cnq3 is still 100x better than the default q3.exe. :P

I'm talking SERVER SIDE.

I'm talking it.

anything's better than base quake3.exe.

But df.exe > *, amirite?

urite

uah, can't watch this, stream looks horrible

That's why there's GTV :]

yeh don't have q3 on this machine unfortunately ;)

z4
\o\ \o/ /o/

z4 is still a fucking beast.

Go z4!

Looks like he's basically saying "You're lucky I had to work last time!" Apparently this IS how you do it.

Guess rapha was all +back rocket spam in quakelive

Guess rapha was all +back rocket spam in quakelive

And exactly so it is. He's a defensive +back player and unfortunately QL favors this wimpy kind of play.

what is this game? it doesn't even have itemrespawntimer for the spectators... this game is 10 years old wtf

you'd think that at some point they'd have added it, especially seeing that quakelive already has it...

lol quakelive is miles ahead of this, and its only 3 years old...

I hate you. :)

This is just a pretty bad troll-attempt, or your just unknowing aka stupid.

Why should you need item-timers in a hardcore game. Mostly all the fans watching matches over at GTV are capable of timing themselves. Anyways only the players should know exactly when items spawn, because for them it's crucial.

This is just a pretty bad troll-attempt, or your just unknowing aka stupid.

...and yet you took some time to reply to it.

item timers help casters know where to focus on and what to talk about

and the qltv noobs need all the help they can get

item timers help casters know where to focus on wtf is going on and what to talk about

czm air-rockets on hub


Sprayed.

ZeRo4 shitting all over Rapha. Fucking quake 3 is so much more intense than quakelive.

Hail to the king, baby!

indeed, the games felt much more intense.. i liked particularly czm-rapha, though czm still kinda sux in close (rl) combat :/

kinzuuuu

You fought czm in real life? He seems like such a nice guy.

czm curbstomped his brother for not knowing pi to the 100th digit

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1777

yeah he was on such an awesome rampage that night, it was like an old dream came true again. :D

Good job guys. Some really enjoyable matches. It's too bad z4 couldn't get to NY though.

Will there be demos? I know VODs will be available/are available but I want demos more.

This is just what I've been expecting/ predicting.

I'd assume, that rapha is having a hard time in this one. You can't convert a playstyle to a game which is that different from QL.

This event has shown that you can't defeat the master. The apprentice will stay the apprentice.

Congrats ZeRo4, I knew you wouldn't let us down. :-)

PS: Rapha's Quake 3 history ---> too little, too late

That is just wrong on several levels.

Do you realize how many REAL QUAKE3 tournaments rapha and zero4 played together?
Zero4 was competing in many of the q3 cpma vq3 LAN tournaments that rapha won, he just wan't good enough to contend.

Here we have one online tournament, with a massive ping disadvantage (40 vs 70) for an unadapted rapha, and suddenly zero4 is the great master?

Tell me this: did we even have remotely equal conditions between the two in this online tournament?

Rapha dominated q3 cpma vq3 for a while, remember? On LAN, while everybody was trying to be as good as possible in it.

"with a massive ping disadvantage (40 vs 70)"

GAgahagahaahah

quakelive is a different game, rapha is surely better there.

quake3 is something else. also, this is cpma. cpma 60 ping is not that much.

http://www.agptour.com/quake3/
I see z4's name come up quite a bit, don't see any scar/scarface.

Honestly dude, you've spent this entire thread talking about how QL sucks and Q3 is better. Here are a couple of facts:

1) Quake 3 is done. Quake Live is around, and its actually looking pretty good. It'll be around for the near future at the least.

2) Quake Live is far more exciting to watch than Quake 3. People aren't keen on watching 15 minutes of armor micromanagement instead of confrontation. The more powerful rocket and overall better aim of players, combined with 10 minutes duel, means that on average you will see more confrontation and more battle.

3) Quake Live is not too far off from the Q3 that was played at the very end (2008) - when aim whoring and LG was very common and traditional greats like Zero4 and CZM were being displaced by the likes of Cypher and Spartie.

4) Rapha is far more than +back rockets. In my eyes, and probably some others, he's the smartest player to play this game and if he had continued with Quake 3 (he was a late bloomer) he would have been the best. It is utterly naive to say that +back rockets are all rapha is good for - on so many levels he outsmarts his opponents. And Q3 is possibly a more strategic game than QL.

5) An opinion - people have complained about defensive play in QL, but that's ironic seeing how players such as av3k, k1llsen, and cypher - who tend to play aggressively off of their aim - are winning. It would seem to indicate that this sort of playstyle is just as good as the calculated playstyle of rapha and cooller.

rofl

unfortunately, none of the points you listed are facts, just mere opinions of an obvious quakelive fanboy.

something about your use of "fanboy" while defending an old obsolete product is off

[-] ad hominem circumstantial

hi sync

And one more thing - you can't defeat the master? Really?

Cooler has said that rapha is a better player than Zero4 was. And I'd say it's true - sometime in the past 3 years rapha has clearly passed z4. Zero4's strategy usually consists of aggression with rockets, there's little finesse, trickery, or elusiveness - the things that make rapha such a good player.

this is not quakelive. quakelive is perfect for rapha's style of play, the smooth easy aim together with rapha's style = $$$

quake3 is RAW.

and RAW is cool, it's what makes q3 so great (or qw).

congrats z4...maybe change your name to Zero3?

I'm sorry but I could not watch that horrible stream longer than 5 minutes. Turn the graphics up or dont stream at all...

Thank you to every participant in the Anima Gaming Q3 Masters tournament. Congratulations to John "ZeRo4" Hill on his triumph for the championship! We hope you enjoyed the games. Please favorite and idle us as we move up our league into future games and tournaments.

-whally

#AG.league @ irc.quakenet.org

great tourney, great coverage. thanks! moar!

Next time, Josh, password protect the servers and don't allow 20 spectators in it. GTV is there for this specific reason. Other than that, I don't really have any criticism for how you ran this tournament. I enjoyed watching the coverage and hope to watch more soon.

seconded, just kick specs and ask them to watch on GTV, getting 20 players out of rotation by /cv remove each and everyone on live stream / GTV is fucking annoying.

Yeah, specially when you get the occasional douche that doesn't have a clue what's going on and starts warming up like he's going to play (and as far as I could tell wasn't in the tourney with 100+ ping).

ALSO:
Perhaps make a signup rule that the players must post their average pings to all of your hosted servers. (Takes 1 min to connect to all 4 locations.)

It would look like this:

Player Name: rush
Location: Minnesota, USA
Ping to CHI: 22ms
Ping to TX: 45ms
Ping to NY: 44ms
Ping to WA: 58ms

This would be helpful for scheduling matches because you do not have to "ask" every group of players where they want to play. Instead you could simply line up comparisons and tell the specific players where they will play when they play their matches.

any place where I can get the demos for rapha czm & rapha z4 ?

They should be available from SittingDuck or whoever took the demos today.

thanks, checked out the VOD of the finals so i'm cool now... z4 looking strong =}

Amaaazing initiative, not that i could watch any game but man, full of retards nitpicking the empty half. 2010 and legends from the golden era like czm and z4 playing, but the whiners cant spray' cause theyre sad and pathetic. Thanks.

demos plz

impressive cup

gratz to z4

tnx for this tourney, nice to know, that someone still remember about quake3.
now someone, please, make a european one also.

I wanted to make the same format for Europe, but I don't have access to many of the players like cooller, cypher, k1llsen, stermy, and others. Plus the timezone will come into effect as well.

15minutes is too much. i was bored most of the time. streaming and casting was great but gtv didn't deliver. i could not audio-sync casting and gtv.

[-]

hmm, for me gtv delivered, it was awesome to be able to choose POV again (with gfx set to my liking:) And the rapha-czm matches showed why 15 min. is good imo. For one-sided games even 10 min. is too long.

some1 plz upload finals demos

some demos are here:
http://quakefour.net/demos/

hmm, is it possible that the demos aren't mvd, although the files say so? I tried it running with seismovision & q3 itself, but I just can't switch pov...

Yep. Also there were some problems due to ioquake3 beeing used for the server which seems to have problems with gtv so gtv wasn't MVD either sometimes (that was my understanding).

so basically there are no zero4 pov demos from his games vs rapha?

Not that I know of. But check the above link again, there have been some more demos being uploaded.

Bow down to John Hill, the greatest quake player ever.

yeah baby, i felt like someone sent me 7 years back, when i saw these games! :D

Wasn't this an online tournament with totally unprepared players playing on very unequal pings?

Instead, tell me what happened when everyone was competing in this very game on lan, while trying to become as good as possible in it.

If quake 3 cpma vq3 was to ever be the competition standard again, do you honestly think zero4 would beat rapha, cooller, av3k, cypher?
If so, what leads you to believe that everything would suddenly be different from when everybody was competing in this setting in big tournaments, when zero4 couldn't compete with the very best, albeit racking up enormous amounts of playtime?

Why are some (not so smart) people here writing that Rapha's style only works in Quakelive and that he gets owned in cpma vq3, when the exact opposite of this has been proven to be true?
The guy very much owned cpma vq3 when it was the competition game.

The guy very much owned cpma vq3 when it was the competition game.

nope

rapha won 1 cpmavq3 tournament, so, as far as the last part goes, no.


and rapha's ping has nothing to do with z4 basically hitting everything.

He was an extremely good cpma vq3 player when that game was played, hence making the claim that his style doesn't work as well in cpma vq3 as in quakelive completely invalid.

3rd in the ESWC Grand Finals in San Jose August 2008.
Won the prestigious ESWC Masters in Athens in October 2008.
4th at Quakecon 2008 in august 2008 (quakelive)
Won Quakecon 2009 (quakelive)
Won ESWC 2010 in Paris (quakelive).

Looks more like a natural progress to domination to me, and as far as it gets from the ridiculous "his style doesn't work in cpma vq3, he got raped by z4 on the internet bro".

To me personally, it looked like rapha wasn't hitting anything, sucking with rockets, sucking in the battles. Of course zero4 was hitting a lot, but there were so many "wrong" situations were Rapha was extremely ineffective in combats, that it didn't feel like a real game to me.

I too would like to see zero4 do something notable in quake, but unfortunately he hasn't been able to do that since 2004 with the exception of that one first 2008 quakecon tournament, despite playing loads.

Being extremely good isn't really the same as "owning" though

So, q3/cpma didn't exist before 2008 is what you're saying?

No, but Z4's past achievements become mostly historically relevant, nothing else. It's like saying fatal1ty is the best q3 player ever. He was the best when the game was not as developed as it was in later years. By 2008, everyone had caught up, even the players who started playing later on - the best Q3 player then is no longer who is traditionally the best, it is who is the best at that point.

It's not just getting to the top, it's maintaining your spot. Which is why rapha will not be considered the best QL player if he stops winning tournaments.

zero4 has been on top from 2000 to 2008, with 8 finals, 5 wins. and didn't even play from 2004-2008. in 2008 he lost 2:1 playoffs to avek, who's a top3 player in Q3/QL.

rapha's only been around for 2 years. as far as his "domination" goes, that is.

"If quake 3 cpma vq3 was to ever be the competition standard again, do you honestly think zero4 would beat rapha, cooller, av3k, cypher?"

There is no If, since you can't compare games back then to games played now. The level and playstyle has improved and is different.
Plus I think you're mixing the two up, Zero4 was always one of the best during q3 prime period. Don't forget he was the mentor of Rapha. Would be silly to say that rapha was better than Zero4 in those days , while beeing coached and trained by Zero4 ?

The final was far from pure ping difference, Zero4 just outplayed and mostly outaimed rapha on a game Zero4 has far more history on than Rapha does.

Last note: I truely believe if Zero4 is given the 'proper' time to practice quakelive for a major tourny AND has the motivation for it, that he is capable of reaching top 3 atleast.

Though I've always been a zero4 fanboy clearly and still am :P

Dear Sherlock,

Why would the level of play have improved in a game that is factually dead since those 2 last big tournaments in San Jose and Athens back in the end of 2008 (with Rapha taking 3rd and 1st place, respectively)?
That is a pretty ridiculous statement, but you are free to have your opinion :-).

It could not possibly be that Rapha wasn't used to the cpma vq3 combat style, had almost the double ping, and thus logically lost to one of the q3 legends (who is still very good, but has failed to show that he is still among the top 5 in the world)?.

On a side note, I am very sure that Zero4 does not have more time in cpma vq3 than Rapha, like you claim; I would think it is the other way around. Just to point out another fallacy.

This must be the first time ever that fanboys actually try their hardest to overvalue a f**ing online tournament this much.
As even the biggest fanboys know , though, in quake online doesn't count.
Can you please paste Zero4's cpma vq3 tournament participations and subsequent results btw? Are there some cool 5-6th place finishes flying around? (seriously; I can't seem to find results; I remember he played quite a few tournaments (even online ones))

Uhm, I was talking about Q3 in general. For me the primetime of q3 duel was BEFORE San Jose 2008 when there were ALOT of good players. Not just a handfull like it has been since 2008 and after. (Yes I got 10 fingers on one hand).

You were talking about 2008 and after for Rapha, while I was talking before that time. okido ?

So how can it be a ridiculous statement that the gameplay and game improved alot from 2000 - 2004 to 2008 ?

And where do I state that I overvalue this online match ? If you read my post carefuly you will notice I simply state that Zero4 outplayed and outaimed Rapha during the final. Do I make assumptions out of it ? No I don't. I make a simple statement on the fact that Zero4 beat rapha twice with no map loss. Online or not. He won.

I never spoke about Zero4 his cpma results at major tournies. I spoke about Q3 tournies in general.

Seems you are clearly a Rapha fanboy who is eager to defend his big loss at an online tournament, blaming it on ping rather than admitting that he was no match for Zero4 at all during the final. Does it mean Zero4 is better than Rapha at the moment ? Not at all, it only means Zero4 outplayed and aimed Rapha during those games. Period

Out of curiousity, since when did you start following the q3 scene ? Around 2008 ? I've been playing and following the scene since 1999 till now so I'm safe to say I know what I talk about

Warlock,
you replied to
""If quake 3 cpma vq3 was to ever be the competition standard again, do you honestly think zero4 would beat rapha, cooller, av3k, cypher?"
with
"There is no If, since you can't compare games back then to games played now. The level and playstyle has improved and is different. "

Obviously I wasn't looking back all the way to 2000-2002 (why would you assume that?) but to the last period in which zero4 tried to compete in cpma vq3 with the best players, i.e. 2008. I remember he played quite a few tournaments and got his ass handed to him, but can't find the results. Shouldn't his fanboys know them by heart? :)
Quake 3 CPMA VQ3.......AGAIN.......Av3k...Cypher
Look, maybe you should work on your text comprehension skills, because that can't possibly be interpreted as back to 2000 (hint: when did we have quake 3 cpma vq3 as a competition standard ?)
Therefore, your statement that the skill has evolved seemed ridiculous to me, as it would be very hard for me to imagine that we were all of a sudden talking about a comparison with 2000-2002.
Taking this into consideration, your subsequent reply continued down the same road of fallacious ridiculosity.

Anyway, I don't even particularly like Rapha. As you say, one should just take it for what it is and give credit to zero4, but just look at all the replies aiming to put Zero4 over Rapha or to put Rapha's vq3 skills down, when there is absolutely no basis for neither the former nor the latter.
If you look at some of the replies, you will see this tendency very clearly.

I understand that the Zero4 fanboys are very frustrated because he hasn't done anything since 2004 except for that second place at qcon 2008, and has gotten owned a lot, but that still doesn't change the fact that he owned up an online tournament.
And that doesn't define greatness in any way.

I'm following quake since 2002.

"I never spoke about Zero4 his cpma results at major tournies"
This is a typical dutchie english error; I am amazed by the frequency of it as it seems so painfully obviously wrong.

Well for me the prime time was when there were alot of high skilled players and clans which was around that time. There was far more competition and new players rising nonstop compared to only the same players or clans winning the last few years.

Ofcourse the game gets tougher and tougher and the players better and better. I agree on that. I'm not calling the games played back then more advanced than now. I simply feel back then quake was bigger than it is now. Though it depends how you define big :)

As for the fanboy stuff. Zero4 was just the person I looked up to most during the time I played myself. I don't care much how he performs the last couple of years. I do know he didn't perform well lately and I don't mind that. I'm an adult not a teen :)

It's just nice to see an oldschool player back in action, no matter how he performs. Ofcourse I cheer for him. But I don't care that much if he performs bad.

And yes ofcourse english isn't my mother language, so kinda normal I make mistakes in my sentences and grammar.

Keeping in mind that he came out of years of retirement in 2008 from a q3 world of OSP to CPMA/VQ3 which people had played since 2006 in tournaments, imo he did really well.

oeps, added reply above you instead of here.

you can edit your comment and change the # of the comment you want to reply to, like so:

I find it ironic that you think that there is a prime. The game develops - and gets harder and harder - it is naive to think that the game played in 2003 was more advanced than the game played in 2008. By 2008, people may have been taking advantage of the insane LG damage, and as stupid as that may have been, that was the evolutionary fate of the game.

Fact of the matter is, the food chain of Q3 champions went something like this:

fata1ty --> zero4 ---> cooller --> czm --> cypher --> (would have been rapha if it kept on going, IMO)

People think that their nostalgic remembrance of the prime days of quake, in 2001 or whenever, means that the players of that period were the best. nope. If you take 01 fatal1ty and put him up against 08 spartie, 01 fatality wont stand a chance. The game gets tougher and tougher, the players get better and better, and the skill ceiling gets higher and higher.

first to this

fata1ty --> zero4 ---> cooller --> czm --> cypher -->

no doubt about it.

so what you're left with is = relevant accomplishments.

one of those guys is clearly on top. and no, it's not the one who ran away after 2000/2001.

If you take 01 fatal1ty

01 fatal1ty had been bitchslapped though, the 00 one is probably more suitable for this :)

Not sure what you are saying, I think if there was a tournament with all these players playing at their best and in-shape, cypher would win, and rapha would have a shot.

Basically I'm saying that back when Z4 was the king of quake the game wasn't nearly as tough as it became later on. It might have been competitive but the game develops and the skill gets higher and higher - zero4 wasn't really able to keep up.

Basically I'm saying that back when Z4 was the king of quake the game wasn't nearly as tough as it became later on.

that's plain retarded as an argument.

Cypher. :)

Who cares John, let's worship Alex.

hneheh rapher couldnt +back against 100rail? heheheheh i knew this guy is a joke

love to see rapha ggin' before hahahah

Since some people like to shit on rapha after he now loses (prolly the same peeps who bought every equipement he was using when he owned the world) I would like to thank the guy to actually took so much time to participate this cup. Having the 3 greatest US quake players of the past decade competing like this, and on Q3, was very entertaining.

I'm sure Everyone was also shitting on Rapha after losing at IEM america last year to dahang, losing silent gamers to dahang again, then barely scraped through his group at the world finals in third place before going on another dominant run.

Who's to say Rapha can't do that again?

in quakelive, he most probably will.

You seem to emphasize "in quakelive".
According to you, he wouldn't in cpma vq3, as shown by this fun online tournament?

of course he wouldn't.

cypher is the king of cpmavq3.

Ok, I completely agree on that, and always hope for Cypher to tear apart backpedalling Rapha!

But I am more specifically asking about Rapha and Zero4.
Do you agree that Rapha would probably constantly place higher than Zero4 if we would have a cpma vq3 lan tournament series?
I too see Zero4 as a top 6 player under those circumstances, even in 2010. The guy is one of the greatest quake players, no doubt.

zero4 is old, and his glory days are long gone. he is a legend, and doesn't need to prove anything anymore. to that, there is no more money in quake, in comparison with 2000-2002.

and he still plays just cause he loves the game. i don't know anyone who managed to wipe the floor with rapha, with 5-1 total in maps.

that's just crazy. and watching him make rapha look like a noob was even more crazy.

it could has been just 4 person cup: rapha, czm, zero4, chance only :D

chance didnt even participate :F

When I first read about someone doing a Q3 tourney I thought it will turn out really bad but this tourney was awesome.
Great players, great games, gtv... The 15 minute timelimit was awesome for the even games (but really boring for blowouts)
Now I just wished z4 had the chance to compete at IEM :/

e: would be interesting to hear what rapha, czm and z4 prefer, Q3 or QL (weapon balance wise).

you might wanna write this link http://www.promode.org/ instead the shitty sharesite with bandwidth limit (7 hours for downloading 800 MB wtf)

2 outta 4 links are dead :P

the base is there anyway
for the rest google will do the work