ESR - IEM4 World Championship Finals *update2*

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News

IEM4 World Championship Finals *update2* (227 comments)

( Major News: QL)

Posted by xou @ 05:07 CST, 21 February 2010 - iMsg

Event: IEM4

Update 2: The ESL announced that

Cyrus "proZaC" Malekani won't be able to attend the World Championship Finals and will be replaced by

Brian "coL|dkt" Flander in Group B.

Update: The schedule of the competition is now available.

The conclusion of the Intel Extreme Masters IV will start in less than 2 weeks during the CeBIT in

Hannover with the World Championship Finals. Yesterday, the ESL staff announced the tournament format and the prize money details for Counter-Strike, World of Warcraft and Quakelive.

Tournaments format

Prize money details

Links: Game format information, Prize Purse

Edited by xou at 05:07 CST, 21 February 2010 - 78028 Hits

2%

<< Comment #1 @ 19:46 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

give double elimination.

<< Comment #2 @ 20:40 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

lolograde ' - Reply to #1

We get to see more games with group play which is nice.

<< Comment #5 @ 21:40 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #1

When you wanna run a proper tournament with a tight schedule, Double Elimination is a bad option as it will result in poor conditions for the players. Unless you wanna make it bo1 ofc...

I still prefer to see SE bo5 :)

<< Comment #7 @ 21:46 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

p4r4 - Reply to #5

What could be more poor conditions than out after 1st loss?

<< Comment #9 @ 23:02 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #7

To be out after 2 maps in some bo1 DE? :)

<< Comment #20 @ 01:25 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #9

wait.

You said it's poor conditions unless it's BO1.

<< Comment #24 @ 01:32 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #20

And he's talking about being out early.

<< Comment #28 @ 01:46 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #24

yes, but he also says he prefers Bo2, were you need to lose at least four maps to be out.
You said that Bo2 will result in poor conditions for the players, which would be better in a Bo1.

So, I think he want you to elaborate on that. Or at least I would :)

<< Comment #34 @ 02:30 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #28

I never talked about bo2. Not sure what you're on.

Edited by xou at 02:30 CST, 18 February 2010

<< Comment #37 @ 02:43 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #34

ouch, meant bo3, i.e. what has been usually used in DE.

<< Comment #47 @ 04:10 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #37

And I say that a full bo3 DE is a big time consumer. That's why at some point you'll need to add some bo1 rounds to keep a doable schedule.

<< Comment #104 @ 13:41 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

p4r4 - Reply to #47

But we have playoffs of only 4 players. To make it double elimination with a separate grand final stage (like QC'09) takes only 2 more games. With the relegation matches, the complete scheme will take exactly the same time as usual 8-player playoffs which were already done in IEM with no problems.

EDIT: not the same time, but one game more (forgot about the grand final). Anyway, seems very doable.

Edited by p4r4 at 13:46 CST, 19 February 2010

<< Comment #22 @ 01:29 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #9

You got to admit though that the "tight schedule" partly relates to the streaming situation and the goal to serialize all the games for the presentation.

Which isn't bad per se. But in gtv times many more games have been played in parallel and people could pick what they wanted to spec. With that kind of format, I suspect one still could realize bo5 double elim in the given time limits. Especially since cutting down game times from 15 to 10 mins has already been a substantial sacrifice towards that direction.

<< Comment #25 @ 01:35 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #22

Tight schedule is partly related to the choice of streaming as many games as possible. But that's not the only reason for sure. There has been a lot of articles about Group+SE versus DE on ESR, try to dig them :)

<< Comment #31 @ 01:58 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #25

Thanks. Doesn't look like the discussion is really settled though.

<< Comment #33 @ 02:28 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #31

Probably not, but DE takes a lot of time in the last rounds. That's a fact!

<< Comment #42 @ 03:52 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #33

Yeah sure, because you can't parallelize that much towards the end. Plus players need their breaks etc.

I can't really argue about that point right now because I didn't really do the math yet myself. What I wanted to say though is that, especially with the streaming situation, various interests seem to be entering the arena which likely require the game to be more presentable/streamable/broadcastable. Like advertising for example.

And it would definitely help if some care would be taken that the game itself doesn't suffer in the process of performing the necessary adjustments. As for example pro players themselves seem to favor double elim from what I can gather.

In other words, when considering the doability of double elim it also depends on how hard one really wants to try.

<< Comment #45 @ 04:09 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #42

It's not like there is unlimited amount of time to run tournaments on an event like CeBIT. Feel free to come over and see by yourself how busy the days will be :)

<< Comment #50 @ 04:31 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #45

Yeah. Don't think I'm complaining. It's only that the game seems to go through a transformation during which it might need a little protection.

I for example wasn't at all happy about the cut down from 15 to 10 minutes. Simply because another crucial time parameter didn't really change, i.e. the time to regain control over a map once it is lost. On pro level and depending on the map that time is often in the range of several minutes. Which makes the game even more vulnerable to unfortunate moments than it already was.

As an example look at the av3k incident in Cologne. A single bad spawn could piss him off enough to basically default the map. That's the impact a "bad luck" moment can have these days. And that's certainly not the kind of situations we would want to see often.

<< Comment #110 @ 10:14 CST, 20 February 2010 >>

By

baron Railgun : - Reply to #50

ql was never really free
streaming is just an example
if game creators won't find a way to make peace between the need of money and what players and public wants, so that everyone will be pleased, I predict ql dying pretty fast -it will be played by the same a few people, alright, but that will be all

<< Comment #113 @ 11:05 CST, 20 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #110

I guess that's what ID is actually trying with ingame advertising, finding ways also for tournament organizers to fund themselves. It just happens to be going the streaming path right now because there's no low bandwidth gtv providing similar functionality.

But all that wasn't my point anyway. It's been rather about the streamlining of the game for the sake of better ad sales, especially the potential danger of ruining the game itself on the way.

<< Comment #156 @ 12:06 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

GEKKO- - Reply to #1

No thx.

<< Comment #6 @ 21:41 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

- Playoffs will be played in Best-of-5 and Single Elimination
:x

<< Comment #3 @ 20:45 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

p4r4

<3 ESL&IEM and their QL promotion, but seriously, single elimination is a major disappointment.

<< Comment #4 @ 21:38 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

wingz

i am dissapoint.

<< Comment #8 @ 22:01 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

linkoo

Nice prize money, too bad not double elimination

Edit: cs has too much for such a crappy game.

Edited by linkoo at 22:01 CST, 17 February 2010

<< Comment #10 @ 23:04 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #8

CS bring a lot more specs than QL: no CS no IEM :)

<< Comment #11 @ 23:08 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

linkoo - Reply to #10

maybe, but it's still crappy :)

<< Comment #14 @ 23:56 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #11

That's the only game with starcraft to be played in tournaments for so long. If you consider Quake 3, Quake 4 and now Quakelive, Quake got easily beaten by CS and SC. That says a lot! :)

<< Comment #16 @ 01:03 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #14

Yeah. Like the informative art program always gets beaten by brain dead tv sitcoms in terms of audience numbers. Doesn't change the fact though that mankind will likely degrade into a bunch of blabbering morons in the long term if we didn't actively support the former.

<< Comment #18 @ 01:11 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #16

Am I talking about WCG Ultimate Gamer or Guitar Hero here? :)

<< Comment #19 @ 01:23 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

stingerrayer - Reply to #18

:)

<< Comment #23 @ 01:31 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #18

Am I talking about soft porn? ;)

<< Comment #26 @ 01:37 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #23

I don't see your point

<< Comment #29 @ 01:56 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #26

Frankly, I didn't see yours neither.

<< Comment #32 @ 02:27 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #29

My point is that CS and SC are pretty hardcore compared to games like Guitar Hero which are a LOT MORE mainstream.

<< Comment #40 @ 03:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #32

OK, that's what I thought, thanks. Then my point was that sitcoms are a lot more art program than soft porn.

<< Comment #46 @ 04:09 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #40

Ok, then you just don't make sense to me.

<< Comment #49 @ 04:20 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #46

quake <-> art program
cs, sc <-> sitcom
ug, gh <-> soft porn

You mentioned how popular cs, sc were opposite quake. I replied that we should still support the art program for good reasons, despite it maybe not being as popular as sitcoms.

Then you asked (rhetorically) if you were talking about ug, gh? And when I replied "am I talking about soft porn?" that basically was a no regarding your rhetorical question. I understood you to talk about cs and sc, that's why I said sitcom in the first place.

<< Comment #56 @ 05:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

ArchaiK - Reply to #49

You're full of shit though, that's something that should be made clear.

CS requires a hell of a lot of skill, equal to that of Quake, but not in the same way. CS requires alot of individual skill, teamplay and strategy.
Quake require even more individuall skill but no team play (in dual) and ofc strategy. It's very obvious from your comments that you're ignorant when it comes to CS so your view is pretty uninteresting tbh.

And another point, as xou stated, CS is one of longest serving competitive titles. If it was the case that the game lacked depth, it would've been replaced 7-8 years ago. For a game to stay at the top for over 10 years it needs a ever changing meta game, which is exactly what CS has.

WoW on the other hand is absolut shit when it comes to competitive play. It's funny because even the WoW players think so.

<< Comment #58 @ 05:50 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #56

Relax.

<< Comment #146 @ 10:27 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

deith - Reply to #56

"And another point, as xou stated, CS is one of longest serving competitive titles. If it was the case that the game lacked depth, it would've been replaced 7-8 years ago."

Its like ski jumping is so fucking skillful and competitive just due to its being since ever.

<< Comment #222 @ 08:01 CST, 1 March 2010 >>

By

trippy - Reply to #56

hahah best start to a comment =D

<< Comment #59 @ 05:52 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

GEKKO- - Reply to #49

You obviously know nothing about Starcraft. If there is any game out there that exceeds Quake duel in demand of skill it is in fact SC.

So with your bad comparisons and single minded trail of thought, one would have to swap Quake down to the sitcom category.

Edited by GEKKO- at 18:42 CST, 19 February 2010

<< Comment #61 @ 06:12 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #59

Acknowledged. Do I look like seriously wanting to enter a detailed discussion of the which game is better than the other type? No. Because it's an utter waste of time anyway.

So what I've been doing basically is expressing my support for quake, admittedly mixed with a little but harmless taunting towards other games. Please take it as that and maybe rediscover your humor on the way.

<< Comment #106 @ 18:40 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

GEKKO- - Reply to #61

It wasnt really to discuss which game was best that i commented. It was merely to point out how biased your statement was, and that the argument u made about SC to back it up, was utterly flawed.

<< Comment #107 @ 20:39 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #106

I wasn't making an argument that needed any backing up but rather a sweeping statement. In case of disagreement, you could have safely ignored it.

Also note that you dudes are entirely misunderstanding me when talking about "skill" etc., something I myself never alluded to. That's why I deliberately chose an "artistic" context, because it isn't so much relating to "skill" but rather to beauty. Which is widely understood to be an inherently subjective matter after all.

Really, don't put my statements into a prefabricated context. Especially the skill discussion is something I give a flying f about.

<< Comment #64 @ 06:51 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

butchji - Reply to #49

How wrong to mention SC, it's not even funny. :)

<< Comment #83 @ 11:03 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #64

Funny? How can any of this be funny?

Amongst all things, dying oceans, vanishing rainforests, soon to be oil and energy shortages, this is the most obvious topic to be dead earnest about. Recognizing that is what defines "skill".

<< Comment #95 @ 16:51 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

butchji - Reply to #83

Funny reply is funny.

<< Comment #111 @ 10:17 CST, 20 February 2010 >>

By

baron Railgun : - Reply to #46

=))
try some pills

<< Comment #206 @ 17:18 CST, 24 February 2010 >>

By

ZeritoN - Reply to #11

f-f-f-faaaacepalm!

Out of interest though, has any of you guys that bash CS actually watched some of the games? The whole "It's so campy" thing is bs. It's like poker. You don't get two cards and immediatly show your hand. You play out what you need to secure the round and it's generally smarter and more interesting play.

Watching CS1.6 games is on a par with watching QL duels for me just because (whether you like it or not) CS is a decent game with great tactical plays.

...SC comes above all though.

<< Comment #212 @ 06:04 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

linkoo - Reply to #206

then go watch/play cs as you want newb

<< Comment #21 @ 01:26 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Raaaaaagh - Reply to #8

CS seems fair, WOW on the other hand.

Im the biggest geek ever, but im amazed people spec this

<< Comment #57 @ 05:46 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

GEKKO- - Reply to #8

They dont get much more. Divide all their prizes by 5 and you pretty much got the QL prizepurse. WC3 on the other hand gets way too much. Especially for a game that should immediatly be replaced by Starcraft...

<< Comment #167 @ 15:11 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Raist - Reply to #57

I fell for the same mistake as well when I checked the prizes. thought it was unfair that a wc3 player got more than a qlive player when placed first. Except it's WoW so a 3 player team which means they individually get less than qlive.

<< Comment #203 @ 17:57 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

GEKKO- - Reply to #167

Yah i noticed it was WoW as well, but spending money on that game is even more of a tradegy.

<< Comment #12 @ 23:38 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

rupertt

when you lose, you're out!

that's the way cups are arranged, that's the way it should be.

nuff said.

<< Comment #13 @ 23:39 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

By

r1ddler

1st. $50,000
2nd. $20,000
3rd. $8,000

Make that the prizemoney for QL and i might consider going full time pro :P

<< Comment #15 @ 00:36 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

valvalis - Reply to #13

ok

<< Comment #17 @ 01:06 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #13

Minimum.

<< Comment #27 @ 01:42 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

therm - Reply to #13

Its 50k for the WHOLE TEAM and u got 10k for 1st place in ql

<< Comment #30 @ 01:57 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

rehepapp - Reply to #27

what you are saying is that one cs player does as much work as on quake player does in one game

<< Comment #100 @ 04:07 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

Kwibus - Reply to #30

Stop whining. CS gets lots more spectators so they should get more money.
I don't like it either, but it makes sense.
That's how the market works

<< Comment #108 @ 08:41 CST, 20 February 2010 >>

By

therm - Reply to #30

what?

<< Comment #117 @ 05:43 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

therm - Reply to #30

wha?

<< Comment #153 @ 11:25 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

rehepapp - Reply to #117

i am no cs player, but i can not imagine there being more elements in the game that need player's attention then in quake.

<< Comment #35 @ 02:33 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

cYmoZz

I dont like the prize money distribution - first place gets 6 times more money than the third - imo this is stupid.

should be smth like this:

1. 8000
2. 4500
3. 2500
4. 1500
5./6. 800
7.-12. 400

Iirc, the format is slightly different from the usual groupstage->single elimination: The winner of each group will automatically be in the semi finals, only 2nd and 3rd places play the "quarter finals". This makes the groupstage more important - I think it is a good thing.

Edited by cYmoZz at 02:48 CST, 18 February 2010

<< Comment #36 @ 02:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

crack - Reply to #35

COOLLER!!

<< Comment #54 @ 04:51 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

weltschmerz - Reply to #36

Plused for mentioning cooller.

<< Comment #38 @ 03:31 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Carmac - Reply to #35

It's pretty much group stage + single elimination, except with two quarterfinals instead of four.

<< Comment #70 @ 09:07 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

bsk - Reply to #38

As long as third from Group A plays second from Group B, and vice versa, I'm happy with this format.

The groups are still stupidly unbalanced though. Swop Griffin with Chance/Stermy please :)

<< Comment #105 @ 14:59 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

SM*Dopefish - Reply to #35

8k looks much worse in headlines..however with 10k you start to get some real money :p

<< Comment #39 @ 03:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

deotrip

so when exactly are the grand finals? i need to plan my trip to hannover....

<< Comment #48 @ 04:11 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #39

Dunno when the exact schedule will be known

<< Comment #87 @ 12:46 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Carmac - Reply to #48

Exact schedule should be available tomorrow.

<< Comment #98 @ 18:45 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #87

Hello it's tomorrow!
I can have schedule? :)

<< Comment #51 @ 04:33 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Rondrian - Reply to #39

grand finals are of course on the last day, so saturday for cebit

<< Comment #52 @ 04:37 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

deotrip - Reply to #51

thank you

<< Comment #41 @ 03:47 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

unihumi

Still no schedule, xou? I am disappoint!

<< Comment #43 @ 04:04 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

trippy

i pretty much blame xou for all the things that go wrong at IEM tournies. xD

<< Comment #53 @ 04:51 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Rondrian - Reply to #43

puh, lucky me!

<< Comment #71 @ 09:14 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

hnns - Reply to #53

Just stick to the rules this time around and you should be fine, wouldn't want this to be turned into another mockery.

Edited by hnns at 09:14 CST, 18 February 2010

<< Comment #44 @ 04:05 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Gladius

when will we know in which group Jibo/Prozac will be put?

<< Comment #55 @ 04:52 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

vkl - Reply to #44

how lazy can you be....seriously it's 3 clicks

http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season4/hann...are-drawn/

<< Comment #60 @ 05:59 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

crow-

Single elimination has its downsides but double elimination gives a boring, predictable final far too often for it to be considered in my opinion.

<< Comment #62 @ 06:33 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

zealot - Reply to #60

yeah, i hate it when the two best players meet in the final. it gets so boring alltimes.

<< Comment #88 @ 12:48 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Carmac - Reply to #62

Mathematically, if the two best players are a perfect 50-50 in skill, the upper bracket winner has a 75% chance of winning the overall final. This means that in the long run you will have more uninteresting finals than not.

<< Comment #89 @ 12:50 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

zealot - Reply to #88

no, the upper bracket winner has an advantage over the loser bracket winner because the former did not lose a single game yet. who cares about maths in that respect, it's perfectly fine :)

<< Comment #91 @ 12:51 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Carmac - Reply to #89

I know WHY the upper bracket winner has an advantage, but that was not my point, was it?

<< Comment #92 @ 12:59 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

zealot - Reply to #91

what is your point then?
we should take a step back and agree on a modus operandi for the finals first so i know what you're talking about. explain your maths and what you have in mind please: 2x bo3? bo5 and a mapwin?

<< Comment #101 @ 05:42 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

Kwibus - Reply to #92

I agree that the final in DE sucks, because the one from loser bracket has to beat winner bracket guy twice.
This can not be changed, because that would be unfair for the guy in the winner bracket.

This is also the only thing I dislike about DE.

<< Comment #102 @ 06:39 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

Sub_ - Reply to #101

make it bo5, upper bracket winner starts with 1-0 in maps

<< Comment #103 @ 13:21 CST, 19 February 2010 >>

By

p4r4 - Reply to #101

Actually what's the problem with Quakecon'09 scheme where final is a separate tournament stage?

Edited by p4r4 at 13:22 CST, 19 February 2010

<< Comment #63 @ 06:51 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

green

i pity the fool not in shape for this

<< Comment #65 @ 07:03 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

The unconfirmed scheduling is:

- Group A on Wednesday
- Group B on Thursday
- Playoffs [edit] and Finals on Saturday

Edited by Memento_Mori at 09:31 CST, 18 February 2010

<< Comment #72 @ 09:20 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Sub_ - Reply to #65

can we get this confirmed please? also, when are the playoffs going to be played?

<< Comment #74 @ 09:29 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Memento_Mori ' - Reply to #72

One of the admins said they will be played on Saturday, together with the finals, but no official announcement have been done yet.

<< Comment #78 @ 09:59 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #72

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1835895#pid1836076

no times, though.

<< Comment #66 @ 07:22 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

judge717

ESR is a negative nancy. I think this event will be pretty awesome

<< Comment #67 @ 07:26 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #66

judge 717 is a negative nancy. I think ESR is pretty awesome

Also the event.

<< Comment #68 @ 07:51 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

antroz

Fix the groups. Group A is ridiculous compared to group B.

<< Comment #180 @ 00:18 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

donka ' - Reply to #68

The only person group A is missing is Chuk fuckin' Norris

<< Comment #69 @ 08:39 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

ufo

The least money for the game that draws most viewers to the stream? (dont like wow as an esport, but still)

<< Comment #75 @ 09:32 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Anonymous (proxyb.tcd.ie) - Reply to #69

lol you think quake draws the msot viewers?

<< Comment #84 @ 11:13 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

ufo - Reply to #75

No, clearly WoW does. Per person the 1st price is less than in QL and CS.

<< Comment #73 @ 09:21 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

hnns

Jibo probably should've been put in B instead of A. Although I can see why they didn't, then the winner from Europe, NA and Asia would all be in the same group. In terms of qualifier placements group A is 2-2-3-3-6-1, B 1-1-4-4-5-2. An unusual way of seeding but it adds up and explains why they put Jibo in A.

Edited by hnns at 09:59 CST, 18 February 2010

<< Comment #76 @ 09:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

serak

I know the admins dont have to do this, but could you pleeeeaase have all players record demos :)

It is such a shame to lose interesting match ups because the situation didnt allow them to be streamed. ( And/Or the players dont want to release their povs o,o )

<< Comment #82 @ 11:02 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Rondrian - Reply to #76

I always make sure that cg_autoaction 3 is enabled, sadly it does not record all the time. manual recording is just too annoying and I think even more demos would get lost with it.

<< Comment #85 @ 11:31 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

serak - Reply to #82

Nice, Im guessing the players probably also make sure that they get their own demos for personal use. Just make sure they cant delete them off the computer after their game is over :D

Edited by serak at 11:32 CST, 18 February 2010

<< Comment #77 @ 09:57 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

lizahd

From a pure financial perspective, id really concern to make a DEAL when beeing in top 2. 4k vs 10k, 7k for both instead sounds somehow to nice....

<< Comment #79 @ 10:01 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #77

I wonder if the players have to pay taxes on the prizes or if that's taken care of.

<< Comment #80 @ 10:06 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

hnns - Reply to #79

no way that's taken care of :P depends on the laws of the homecountry of the winners.

<< Comment #81 @ 10:34 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #80

are you sure?

I always thought it depended on the location of the tournament first, as a tax on winnings, and declaring it again as income at home was another matter (i.e. noone tells).
But that's just based on stuff I heard.

<< Comment #114 @ 05:16 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

therogue - Reply to #81

winners are responsible for their own tax, we send the amount they win

<< Comment #196 @ 11:35 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

.syL - Reply to #114

It's not that easy. Income tax isn't exactly my specialty, but germany levies a source tax on earnings from price money, and it is the responsibility of the organizer to withold the tax and pay it to the authorities, for non-tax-residents. ( � 50a EStG )

<< Comment #86 @ 12:03 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

hkrep

So 2nd place in group has just as much chance to progress as the 3rd? How is that fair?

<< Comment #90 @ 12:50 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

Carmac - Reply to #86

2nd place in the group plays 3rd place in the other group in the semi final. So theoretically 2nd place in the group meets a weaker opponent than 3rd place in the group.

<< Comment #93 @ 13:00 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

hkrep - Reply to #90

Ah, from the other group. Missed that

<< Comment #94 @ 14:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

erok

I actually really like this format, puts more importance on the group matches, and bo5 for every play off game is better than DE imo!

<< Comment #118 @ 05:57 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

T1E ' - Reply to #94

yeah, and groups of 6 bring loads of high quality group stage matches

<< Comment #96 @ 18:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

rupertt

I thought vo0 qualified for the WC. Dunno where I got that from.

... wait, did griffin take vo0's spot? I missed that.

Edited by x1138 at 18:43 CST, 18 February 2010

<< Comment #97 @ 18:44 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #96

Vo0 can't go because of exams. Griffin takes his slot.

<< Comment #99 @ 18:50 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

By

rupertt - Reply to #97

i see, too bad. gratz to griffin tho :)

<< Comment #109 @ 08:50 CST, 20 February 2010 >>

By

Kaide

almost came to my pants when i saw ql prize money!

Edited by Kaide at 08:53 CST, 20 February 2010

<< Comment #112 @ 10:33 CST, 20 February 2010 >>

By

baron Railgun :

3rd. $1,600
why not $1,599? lol

<< Comment #115 @ 05:28 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Kwibus

Another cancel... no Prozac either.

dkt.. oh well. He can do pretty good at times :)

<< Comment #116 @ 05:34 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

What the fuck happened to Vo0?!

The Group-B contains DaHanG, Cypher, dkt, strenx, fox and griffin WTF?!

BTW dkt won't stand a chance

Ah red the news all clear now *sad that wo bothers about school*

Edited by WTFProoF?! at 05:36 CST, 21 February 2010

<< Comment #119 @ 05:58 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

grimbob

Might as well put two bye's in group B with griffin and dkt in there.

So many other players that deserve to be there, and would provide a better level of competition compared to those two.

<< Comment #120 @ 06:06 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

esdf '

so why are yankees getting another player on cebit world champs, instead of asia having 2nd player (unleashed)? and what is this joke with group a? seriously?

<< Comment #123 @ 06:23 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #120

Read the news on ESL maybe?

<< Comment #125 @ 06:41 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

makku - Reply to #123

From the comments:

#1 -> Vo0 was playing as a NA since he's living in USA. That's quite logic he gets replaced by someone from the American Champ.

Agreed. Griffin beeing there is perfectly legit.

About dkt, I guess he was the only one who could make it to Europe on such short notice. His rank in the NA finals can be considered better than calipt's rank in the euro finals overall as well.

Are you kidding me? Without wanting to break another 'NA vs EU' flame war off the fence, you can't argue about the level of competion beeing significantly higher at the EU championship. That beeing said, calipt (or k1llsen as the other 'unlucky' playoff participant) even managed to get past the group stage, winning matches vs. very, very formidable opponents (calipt beating av3k and k1llsen beating cypher, now think about who played in the final..). You seriously call that less of an achievement than dkt's performance at the NA finals where he didn't manage to win a single freakin group stage match, leaving Edmonton with what, one map win to his name? You _must_ be kidding me...

<< Comment #130 @ 07:14 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #125

Hey, that's just my personal opinion. I don't really know the details of why dkt got the slot. I simply guess he was the only player with a decent ranking who could make it.

Maybe k1llsen and calipt can't attend at CeBIT? I really dunno, that's just a guess!

<< Comment #214 @ 12:45 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

ashr - Reply to #130

unleashed placed top 3! i wonder if he was asked.

<< Comment #215 @ 12:47 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #214

He was, read the source again!

<< Comment #217 @ 12:52 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

ashr - Reply to #215

source? tut, tut, such bad habits :D

<< Comment #150 @ 10:47 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

hnns - Reply to #125

It's a good guess though! Noctis, spartie, killsen and calipt probably couldn't make it to Europe on such short notice so they had to call on dkt. They're probably all stuck in Malaysia the poor things!

<< Comment #220 @ 19:24 CST, 26 February 2010 >>

By

esdf ' - Reply to #150

ye I had the same thought. I mean, spart1e probably can't make the trip from sweden to germany as it's too far away for such a short notice. let alone calipt or k1llsen, in-germany trip would totally exhaust the poor guys. thank god we have allmighty nation of usa that can overcome any obstacle. THANK YOU GOD FOR SENDING DKT INSTEAD OF SOMEONE ACTUALLY GOOD.

<< Comment #221 @ 17:14 CST, 27 February 2010 >>

By

uNhoLeee - Reply to #220

hey... i've got a dkt mousepad, this guy must be good.

Edited by uNhoLeee at 17:15 CST, 27 February 2010

<< Comment #121 @ 06:07 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

noctis

iem europe > iem world

<< Comment #122 @ 06:22 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By $\0/$ sniden - Reply to #121

vote yes

<< Comment #134 @ 07:40 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Magician - Reply to #121

The fact that rapha wasn't at iem europe is already enough to completely invalidate such a dumb statement.

<< Comment #178 @ 22:45 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

kRoNic- - Reply to #134

not so dumb if you consider this.

griffin
dkt
jibo
chance

vs

z4mus
spartie
noctis
k1llsen
+calipt

<< Comment #186 @ 06:45 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

Magician - Reply to #178

The only player you could argue to be better on lan from the lower list compared to the upper list is spartie. Then again his recent results have been mixed. The others are comparable in strength, with the main deciding factor being how active they are. Also you conveniently left out rapha and dahang from the upper list.

<< Comment #187 @ 07:10 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

hnns - Reply to #186

rofl

<< Comment #189 @ 12:37 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

kRoNic- - Reply to #186

get a clue plz.

<< Comment #223 @ 14:17 CST, 6 March 2010 >>

By

Magician - Reply to #189

sup captain clueless?

<< Comment #224 @ 14:32 CST, 6 March 2010 >>

By

kRoNic- - Reply to #223

oh boy lets all play the "i know you are, but what am i" game..

not.

<< Comment #216 @ 12:50 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

ashr - Reply to #186

o_O

<< Comment #162 @ 12:37 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Kwibus - Reply to #121

Considering highest seeds, no
Considering lowest seeds, yes

<< Comment #124 @ 06:37 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

redraw the groups please

<< Comment #126 @ 06:54 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Carpio

Why DKT? Send Spartie instead! And groups are unbalanced :/

<< Comment #127 @ 06:59 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Zeta

why dkt send noctis ffs!

<< Comment #128 @ 07:04 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

dardoz

Why is Dkt there instead of the 3rd place guy from IEM Asia's?

<< Comment #131 @ 07:14 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #128

Read: http://www.esl-world.net/masters/news/115340/

<< Comment #135 @ 07:42 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

1ecb61110 - Reply to #131

that doesn't clear up anything as you're stating here that's it's just an opinion...

<< Comment #137 @ 07:47 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

xou - Reply to #135

"Since all Asian players are not able to take part in the World Championship "

That doesn't answer your question?

<< Comment #138 @ 07:55 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

1ecb61110 - Reply to #137

My bad, thought it was about dkt vs any of the Europeans.

<< Comment #129 @ 07:11 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

bsk

Okay, seriously, with all these changes the groups have to be rebalanced.

ESL, please respond.

<< Comment #165 @ 13:23 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Linchpin - Reply to #129

I second this, Group A = group of death, no doubt about that. Excluding Cypher and maybe DaHang its almost like the playoffs are being played in group A
:S

<< Comment #136 @ 07:46 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Anonymous (bas5-toronto01-1177868950.dsl.bell.ca)

WHY DKT? He sucks..

Just drop chance/dkt/griffen

ADD calipt/k1llsen/noctis

<< Comment #139 @ 08:24 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

d1z : - Reply to #136

lol, why Chance?
hes playing good.

<< Comment #148 @ 10:28 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Anonymous (bas5-toronto01-1177868950.dsl.bell.ca) - Reply to #139

Never liked chance.. hes nub.

TOP TIER Americans
------------------------------
Fatal1ty
Zero4
CZM
Rapha
Dahang (probably)

Middle Tier Americans
-----------------------------
Socrates
Chaoticz
Cl0ck

Low Tier Americans
---------------------------
Chance
Destrukt

<< Comment #149 @ 10:35 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

d1z : - Reply to #148

seems you know nothing abt quake live nowadays.

<< Comment #132 @ 07:26 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

lizahd

send thenewbz!! new champion ::D

<< Comment #133 @ 07:27 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Dynamix

They should switch Stermy with dkt then that's pretty much as fair as I can see it getting.

<< Comment #140 @ 08:36 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

dansen

lol dkt.. fail

<< Comment #141 @ 08:37 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

dansen

ask sparks, maybe he wants to come aswell

<< Comment #152 @ 11:01 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

judge717 - Reply to #141

i'm actually surprised sparks isn't going to the finals

<< Comment #142 @ 09:04 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Carpio

Its a shame Spartie is not qualified seeing much worse players making it to the finals. Thx Av3k for loosing to Calipt not to mention the Cooller restart thing. You better beat Rapha/Dahang at the finals to make up for all these. ;)

Edited by Carpio at 09:05 CST, 21 February 2010

<< Comment #151 @ 10:53 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

RMS - Reply to #142

Spart1e just needed to beat av3k

<< Comment #143 @ 09:14 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

destrukt

ugh why dkt? he sucks!!!!

<< Comment #144 @ 09:42 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

gienon - Reply to #143

Europe lacks potatoes ;)

<< Comment #147 @ 10:28 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Crasis - Reply to #144

[+] for Potatoe

<< Comment #158 @ 12:12 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By $\0/$ fragerr - Reply to #144

[+] for Potatoe

<< Comment #145 @ 09:44 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

noctis - Reply to #143

lol who do you think you are talking bad about a pro!!!!

(gotta agree tho)

<< Comment #227 @ 15:09 CDT, 25 March 2010 >>

By

rockz ' - Reply to #143

u proved it

<< Comment #154 @ 11:34 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

koji

group a..

lulsabre

<< Comment #155 @ 11:34 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Kill_

Why whe fuck dkt, I mean by what fucking logic does he quilify for this ?

Why no k1llsen ?
Why no Z4muz ?

This is a joke.
Hell it doesnt matter who cant make it there just throw in an American ! No fucking problem..
Seriously, did he even win a game at the American qualifiers ? No way he deserverd this spot over Spart1e k1llsen z4muz and so on....

Edited by Kill_ at 11:37 CST, 21 February 2010

<< Comment #157 @ 12:10 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

weeja - Reply to #155

DESTRUKT IS GOING TO MAKE A EURO SANDWICH AND THEN PUT HIS MAYONNAISE ALL OVER IT

<< Comment #159 @ 12:15 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

RMS - Reply to #157

I have been already feelling the smell of fried potatoe made by euro pros shaft

<< Comment #160 @ 12:33 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

weeja - Reply to #159

lol

<< Comment #161 @ 12:37 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

frs

Uh Spartie even posted that he will be at Cebit in case someone drops out and they need a filler... and he sure as fuck deserves it more than DKT

<< Comment #163 @ 12:43 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Kwibus - Reply to #161

Yeh it's a bit weird. Nothing against dkt, but it doesn't really make sense.

<< Comment #164 @ 13:13 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

hnns - Reply to #163

i guess it makes more sense for ESL in a way to have a more even numbers of Euros vs Americans for a "world cup". That's all this is, pretty sad. Euro finals > this.

<< Comment #169 @ 15:37 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #163

The best reason I see is that spartie will still be there, so if someone else drops out on short notice he can get that slot.

Also, Europa kinde has the one of the Asian slots (I count jibo a a part of the Russian quake scene) so now America gets one slot as well.

And dkt has shown at other event that he can do better than at Edmonton.

Yes, none of those possible reasons is really good, but it's something.

<< Comment #166 @ 14:22 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Gladius

hm I also fail to see the logic behind picking dkt. Nothing against him, but there are lots of euros better than him

<< Comment #168 @ 15:21 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

ffs give the spot to zero4

<< Comment #170 @ 16:21 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

Maybe ESL went with trying to pick someone of equal skill to ProZaC?

<< Comment #171 @ 17:31 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

weeja

to all the euros this decision might seem strange but for the good north american players who play with him sending dkt seems justified. I would not say he is better then cypher or rapha but he is capable of playing anyone in QL.

<< Comment #172 @ 19:14 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

RMS - Reply to #171

nah...As a man from the third world I can objectively say that there are several europeans players who are definetely better. :)

<< Comment #173 @ 20:08 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

dem0n - Reply to #171

you're saying dkt deserves more his spot than k1llsen or calipt?

Or even spartie for that matter, who atleast managed to win 2 out of his 3 group matches if I recall.

ending 7th in IEM EU surely is a better achievment than ending 6th at the IEM US....

<< Comment #174 @ 20:43 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

weeja - Reply to #173

There is already 7 euros qualified if you had your way you would just make it 12 euros would'nt you? be reasonable

<< Comment #177 @ 22:41 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

dem0n - Reply to #174

if I had my way and wanted to make it fair in terms of skillsets, I'd put 9 euros, 1 asian and 2 americans.

So yeah, close to that.

It's not about having equally the same amount of players, it's about having the best players compete. Obviously USA only has a couple players that are really top-notch while eu has a ton more...

<< Comment #183 @ 03:37 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

Kill_ - Reply to #174

There where 3 spots reserved for the US for a reason, NOT 5.

Edited by Kill_ at 03:38 CST, 22 February 2010

<< Comment #190 @ 12:57 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By $\0/$ fragerr - Reply to #173

isnt u the guy who likes the ba raped on lan.. gg.

<< Comment #184 @ 03:45 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #171

http://www.quakelive.com/#profile/matches/dkt

not impressed so far, we'll see if two weeks are enough.

<< Comment #175 @ 21:15 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

don't like big groups and SE, cooller/avek don't even try in groups!

dkt picked over calipt/killsen(/spartie) ? strange, and bs statement about him being higher placed or whatever, c'mon EU version was way tougher..

It would even make more sense to give that spot to uNleashed or whatever, as it was originally an Asian slot anyway.

oh and last whine: groups imba

However, still looking forward to some great matches ofc :=)

<< Comment #176 @ 21:52 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

ashr

no prozac? this tournament's already turned to shit.

<< Comment #181 @ 00:36 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

Anonymous (bas5-toronto01-1178065709.dsl.bell.ca)

griffens mom going to let him play in this tourny? if not drop griffen and add 1 of these guys:

calipt / k1llsen/spartie/z4muz.noctis

<< Comment #179 @ 23:51 CST, 21 February 2010 >>

By

vkl

omfg dkt instead of at least 5 euros who'd do better. This tournament is such a disappointment. Now it's 5 americans when really 2 max stand a chance.

Edited by vkl at 23:52 CST, 21 February 2010

<< Comment #188 @ 08:55 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

Kill_ - Reply to #179

exacly, they can be extremly happy if 2 will advance out of the group stage, but I doubt in even that.

<< Comment #182 @ 02:35 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

dansen

does not computer

<< Comment #185 @ 05:42 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

Jezper

why is prozac not attending? hopefully nothing serious...

<< Comment #191 @ 13:01 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By $\0/$ fragerr - Reply to #185

because he won some cash what his point was.. dont think that he was looking forward to visit de

<< Comment #192 @ 13:02 CST, 22 February 2010 >>

By

- dkt
+spartie
- griffin
+ killsen

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU AND I'M FROM AMERICA THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

<< Comment #193 @ 06:38 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

Spart1e

Thanks for the positive comments about me :).

<< Comment #194 @ 06:47 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

roffo - Reply to #193

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

<< Comment #195 @ 08:04 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

destrukt - Reply to #193

you suck!

<< Comment #197 @ 12:59 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

Spart1e - Reply to #195

eh....did I say a bad thing about you? Ask Rondrian or other people what I said about you....

<< Comment #198 @ 13:50 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

destrukt - Reply to #197

i'm just joking d00d =)

Edited by destrukt at 13:53 CST, 23 February 2010

<< Comment #199 @ 14:06 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

Linchpin - Reply to #198

I love you too potato

<< Comment #200 @ 14:16 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

Spart1e - Reply to #198

;)

<< Comment #201 @ 15:11 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

Derb_ - Reply to #198

you better put in some f'ing work dude. represent and show that euro scum what the usa is all about :>

<< Comment #202 @ 15:21 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

butcher_kgp ' - Reply to #201

represssaaant

<< Comment #209 @ 03:49 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #201

from what I hear US QL is about massive rage.

<< Comment #204 @ 19:09 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

calipt`

only thing i'd like to know is the reasoning tbh. only thing ive heard sofar was a "it was not my decision". I mean on IEM i was told that 7th in europe is the first to take an open spot, i dont even mind the fact that an american got it now that much, but why someone who performed weakly on the qualifying tournament for this?
i know there's no use to whine alot so i won't, just knowing the reason would be cool :]

<< Comment #205 @ 19:26 CST, 23 February 2010 >>

By

dem0n - Reply to #204

[+]

[+] my [+] if you agree to my [+]

<< Comment #210 @ 05:06 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

Kill_ - Reply to #204

Man, you should whine ! You should absolutely try to get that spot since you deserve it much more...
Take what's rightfully yours!

<< Comment #211 @ 05:23 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

stingerrayer - Reply to #204

give the man an answer!

<< Comment #213 @ 12:41 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

ashr - Reply to #204

yeah it's bullshit.

<< Comment #219 @ 19:49 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

hnns - Reply to #204

Yet another example of the unprofessionalism of ESL.QL. Bunch of kids in charge.

<< Comment #225 @ 15:08 CST, 6 March 2010 >>

By

becks - Reply to #219

I'm impatiently waiting for your tournament.

<< Comment #226 @ 12:18 CST, 7 March 2010 >>

By

hnns - Reply to #225

Ok

<< Comment #207 @ 17:28 CST, 24 February 2010 >>

By

ZeritoN

- dkt
+ spart1e / calipt / k1llsen / z4muz / noctis
- t7
+ hub
- WoW
+ Hello Kitty Online

Edited by Zer1toN at 17:31 CST, 24 February 2010

<< Comment #208 @ 03:30 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

syanid

sucks that the games are scheduled to be played during the day, I will be at work goddammit!�#(%�&�"#"!

<< Comment #218 @ 13:02 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

By

duumed - Reply to #208

just tell them cooller is playing and you'll get rest of the week off

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