Whats the problem with the setting?

Would like to hear an explanation, instead of just "we decided/voted"

The 16 players voted: 9 for disabled, 6 for enabled, 1 who didn't care.

try to guess who didn't care "))

I... don't... know...

C O O L L E R
O.O..................
O...O................
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L.......L.............
E.........E..........
R..........R........

tbh this was discussed to no end already....and besides, shouldn't the reasons be obvious (for you)?

as stated in the post, its about the timestamp option. silly but i dont think any of the guys are going to care one way or the other anyway.

its fucked.

possible cooller/spartie/noctis/guard

Edit: cooller will probably end up in a group with spartie, he ALWAYS does

That is such a fucked up group if it happens... and I bet it will, with my "luck" last events.

If you want to win it all... you got to beat them all.
Anyways your showing lately your form is fine so you should be able to handle such a group. Still such a group would be insane.

Well it's not that simple. Spart1e is a player, like cooller, that plays better in the elimination stage.

yep that is true. But like my last 2 events. Dubai I had cooller and dahang in groupgames. I needed more games before I could play good, so I did not get throught groupstages. If I would get throught groupstage I would have getten more time and I would have played alot better in playoffs.

Dreamhack I actually were in really good shape, but had to play dahang in my 3rd game. If I would have played him in a later state god know what would have happen....

If this happens again with 3 players that could all place top3 all are in same group it is just shit/just my luck.

Whatever, I wont care about this now anymore. But if im unlucky again, why should I bother going to tournaments when some players gets easier brackets and some have to take a harder way?
Please make it Double Elimination.

You're a great player and I don't think there is anyone here who believes you can't get out of a difficult group stage. I'm not intending to be offensive, but your concerns appear more like whining. You can do it. We all know you can do it. So just play, kick some butt and gain some confidence.

It is indeed whining... In order to win the tournament, you need to be able to beat all players qualified irrelevant of their skill.. spart1e is an awesome quake player (although I'm not a fan of his gameplay), but if he lacks mental stability in order to pass the hard group I wouldn't call it "unlucky" :)

what if your goal is just to get top6, to qualify for the world finals?

If you can settle for top6, you still need to be playing for 1st. You're going to have to beat them eventually if you want to come out on top.

Besides, if you have a hard bracket and you get to the top, just think of it as another thing you overcame to make it there. Doubting yourself now could be doing more harm than anything else.

Go kick some ass.

That is simply the wrong attitude then :) Settling for less will never get you far, all top players made it to the top due to their determination along with the amount of practice and talent combined :)

ORLY?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1813949

?

he was refering to:

ESL are currently running the largest QuakeLive tournament around of which you've qualified for the finals. What are your expectations from this tournament? First place?
Depends on how I will be prepared for it and my nervous system. Of course I will try to do my best and now I have a plan for top6.

Guys, you're not dumb.. You know that Cooller wants to WIN the event, not just participate with the idea to end up in top6 :)

everyone wants to win the tournament, but that might not be the primary goal for everyone ...

As the Fatalonety says, it's about peaking at the right time. Cooller cares more about qualifying for the final (so he can win it) than he cares about winning the Euro qualifier. I'm sure many players feel the same.

Double Elimination would be great anyways....

with such great players, double elimination is needed

Oh yeh double elimination! Absolutely approved!

tradition must be preserved.

well you played your worst quake @ dubai and still barely lost to cooller, so in this group you and noctis would probably fight for 1st/2nd place.

srs/srs/av3k :)

why so serious!

high group would be:
cooller, fox, noctis, draven

low group would be:
stermy, k1llsen, l1nkje, zsx

lol, thats kinda like the group im hoping for.

fox > k1llsen ez

fox and cooller are both in mouz

doesnt matter in this tournament

OMG group 1 so strong GG ADMINS

C O O L L E R
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but srsly

lose all those retarded clan and country restrictions already

That'd be Carmac's job maybe, I'm not sure

I agree with Noctis on this - makes no sense in a duel competition.

Agreed.

so true... I mean the reasoning behind it is smth really strange...
Like we don't want players to ever get into a possition such that the leader can fix for his teamie to go through by throwing a game. (at least it was kinda explained like that to me)

So hey we as organisers will just fix the poules such that people who might like eachother are not in the same poules????
So it seems to be prefered that any chance the players might get to fix the outcome of a game (because they have a hidden agenda)... they just fix almost the entire tournament by using these silly rules.

But hey it's not like the poules can differ much in strength anyway seeing who are nr1 in the poules etc. so I doubt it will matter... but the same goes for the not having rules (ofcuz). (btw it's really early so I'm not totaly awake yet.....)

That kind of thing did happen in the past, didn't it?

On the other hand I thought the group in Dubai were fine. Sure, you won't have too many variations in the who plays who department, but I don't think that the rule is completely pointless.

tbh I only remember that happening once...
but that wasn't even between clan mates / countrymen I think...

I thought it was smth like:
usa pro plays ru pro.
usa pro loses 2 - 0
usa pro loses a map to someone
ru pro lets someone win over him 1 - 2
ru pro and someone progress, usa pro is 3rd in the poule.

But I don't really remember it all that well as it was a long time ago.

But tbh (I think) you can just shift around the order in which games are played as well which can work perfect.
aka you make a kind of tree which can make sure that none of these instances where that can happen actually occur. (as you can know who wins which game etc)
There are a shitload of options... you can make games go simultaneously, or you can force the winner of the 'game of favorites' to play the rest of his matches before the loser does.... etc.

sadly, I don't remember a specific incident, but I think one had to with WCG?
Might not even have been Quake but I don't think the game matter in this case, just the notion that is happens.

And no, I don't think you solutions work that well.

aka you make a kind of tree which can make sure that none of these instances where that can happen actually occur. (as you can know who wins which game etc)

I don't believe that you can know that, especially not with these seed pools. For example, If noctis, spartie and cypher end up in one group I find it very hard to say who will certainly go through.

you can make games go simultaneously,

That does help, but it's still not perfect. A player who won his first two games 2-0 usually only needs to win one more map, not the match to go through. So he can do that even in his last game. (However, one could maybe remedy that, by making sure players of the same team or country don't play each other in the last round...)

or you can force the winner of the 'game of favorites' to play the rest of his matches before the loser does.... etc.

this again makes it necessary to actually have certain favorites, which isn't always so.
Also forcing that kind of thing would probably make the schedule more complicated and longer, so I don't think it would be a good approach.


Imo, the biggest criticism comes from a different direction. Afaik, this rule is takes form the football Champions League, where teams from one country actually know each other well and where one team actually benefits if countrymen go through (5 year ranking).
But with the internet and players changing teams quite often it isn't that easy. People from different countries and teams have formed friendships, which could also be a reason to help their friend get through. However that doesn't get adressed by the rules at all.
So, technically now a person with lots of friends, but no countrymen or teammates competing has the best chances of being "helped". (I bet noctis whishes he had friends, now <3)

So, yeah that and also some of your arguments is why I now changed my opinion a bit and would agree that the rule is a bit pointless and does not ooutweigh the fewer possibilities for the make-up of the group.


On a last thought, disallowing players of the same team to play in one group (or at least the last match) is probably still a reasonable rule, because otherwise, managers might be tempted to force or persuades their players to "help each other",

tl;dr:
I know, it's a wall of text, deal with it :D

"where teams from one country actually know each other well and where one team actually benefits if countrymen go through (5 year ranking)."

Not sure if you included that because you know, but the same applies to Masters, assuming QL will use country ranking next season (I don't know, but I guess it's likely)

No, I didn't know that. Interesting.

That does change things again, of course...

http://www.esl-world.net/masters/country_ranking_season_4/

IEM, ENC, (most) EMS have country rankings based on the 3 previous seasons

If it will be used for QL I have no idea, but the player base is big enough to justify it

thanks.

It was Cooller. He lost to NI3 and got Zero4 pushed into 3rd.

that has nothing to do with countries or clans tho?

which was my point!

remember czm owning chance when he was already out? :D

this.

after a couple of names being drawn in dubai we have already known how the groups will look like in the end. and while i can, possibly, understand why you should seperate teammates, separating countrymen is pointless and could ruin the tournament with bad groups.

I think it's a good rule, you don't want to see player from the same team/country play eachother early on.

why not?

I gotta agree with noctis there... this rule is pointless

yeah, its not a nationscup.

in championsleague they don't try to let two teams face each other late because they both have brasilian players either.

its a normal duel cup, paying attention to the players teams is necessary imo, hence teams with more players having a higher chance of winning and their players not throwing eachother out early.

so maybe i should have joined fnatic to avoid half of the playing field?

you could also defect to Sweden and to the US for the World Finals o/c.

you don't agree?

i mean sure there's a limit, but this is something i think should be payed a little attention to.

putting all fnatic players in one group is not way to say thanks to an organisation thats willing to support so many ql duel players.

i'm not saying that the tourney organisers owe something to fnatic or whomever, but since they do have the option, its the least they could do.

Its a duel competition, one player vs one. Everyone is playing for himself and wants to get out on top in the end.
So there shouldn't be any team-aspect added to this just because players have the same sponsor.

This is imo like separating Tennis players that are sponsored by Adidas in a tournament ...

.. with the difference that tennis is a well established sport and adidas is happy with every second on tv they get, besides the fact that the players could also do without the 20+ sponsors they have.

fps however is not well established and the single main sponsor the players have should be rewarded as such. there are enough really good players with no sponsors what so ever and putting all fnatic players in one group might make them think twice befor sponsoring 3 or 4 players again.
seeing how their players all get into the playoffs however might encourage them to sponsor even more players.

ofcourse taking the sponsors into account while designing groups can't be exagerated to the fact that seeding pools aren't regarded anymore.

i ofcourse can't argue with what you said, you are right, this has nothing to do with teams.

i just think it may be a nice gesture to the big sponsors.

They do that so players don't throw a game. Dubai saw Fox and Cooller in the same group, so they moved them. But, it still needs to be fair. They're not going to move players around and turn it from fair groups to unfair groups.

I soooo don't like commercial influence in a competition.
I don't mind them using players to promote the companies, but I certainly do not like them to influence the competition itself.

Actually imo it's WRONG! roaarrrrrr

Finally, the ESL Staff announced the result of the vote amongst the players about the use of cg_drawItemPickups, which allow to display the timestamps when a player picks up items and weapons. This setting will not be allowed during the finals and should remain to 0.

Huh? Setting it to "3" shows the same thing I have in CPMA, which is just the description and a little icon. Why wouldn't that be allowed?

my money will be on noctis the magician again!

damnit wanted to see an icelander in a tournament

Looks like getting sponsorship is tough.

Not that strange with an almost bankrupt country. You guys will get back up pretty fast tho I think.

Anyways... not one of the big euro teams interested in a player? If for example qrebo keeps on progressing he will certainly be picked up by a big team. If for example he starts to participate in zotac and g-data and ends up top 3 a few times i'm sure someone will sponsor him? Just a thought...:(

There should be a cg_drawAttributes -- which would, instead of having MVD extra-window view, that there is in the lower right hand corner the enemy's armor/health and room location (if possible).

Would be nice

yeah UT had that and whit a minimap so u could see where both where on the map. its nice.

exists, it's called sombradar

av3k will be serious! :)

so guard is going after all?

group 1 group of death!

Alessandro "AMD64.stermy" Avallone
stermy - fnatic's player, isnt it?

only for tdm/ctf i think

Btw Draven, are you sure you can attend this? Some matches are on saturday and sunday!

leave him alone already :(

It's squishy's way of showing his love for a person. Secretly he's dravens biggest fanboy.

he is my fellow countryman, so keeping with the dutch gay tradition i truly love him yes ;-)

That's why I love you and Draven. <3

i can, dont worry :)

ok just checking!

Stermy to B
Spartie to A
Noctis to B
Killsen to C

k thanks. Competition will be sooo tight. woot

swap spartie and noctis, and id agree ^^

But the pools are created from most resent tourney results I think?
So actuall A or B seeds ended up in B and C.

noctis seed 3 -> ???

did I miss something? :)

Yeah, it's called "reading" :)

ah.. then it had shit groups before!!! otherwise av3k would be seed 3, which would be a joke too. :P

Nah, Av3k only got back to a good shape (DHW'09) after groups were made: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1786925

thats true

and i got to be the lucky one out of 8

you're alltimes full of lucky!

you're emo anyway and crack under pressure.

the underdog way is the better way for you! :)))

Seeding Strenx above Av3k was just as retarded then. Comparing Av3k's accomplishments to Strenx's, there should've been no contest, but one poor showing and suddenly he's dropped to the lower seed pools? That was a bad decision, and it's led to the current problem.

can't wait for this! anyone knows if ESL premium will be available for the euro finals?

Z4muZ and Noctis in pool 3 :/

Note: only players who finished 1st in their group can be in Pools 1 & 2.

In a online qualification. Aka, fucking retarded.

apparently its handled more like a first group stage and not like a qualification.

Killsen/strenx over zamuz/noctis? ROFL

Garpy over guard ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl

gods punishment to you for having long hair.

yeah, like, group-winners before runners-up?

Not like GUard is very familiar with LAN competitions

Last thing he said about this lan was that he wasn't coming anyways.
I hope it was all a lie tho.

God i'm bored today:(

According to this interview (in polish) http://voodoo.at.desk.pl/index.php?mod=articl...amp;id=89#

He's going.

I could translate the interview if anyone would want to read it in english.

I am interested.

its about time we get to see him on a big event

Yeh translate please!

would be an interesting read i guess, plz share if you find the time

Just posted the interview

where can I find english version ?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1817505

thanks!

pffff he won like 30 LANs

Yea, and strenx did way better than zamuz/noctis at lans or what? Vary logical statement dude!

Draven actually won games at DH compared to garpy at quakecon aswell.

well, strenx should be rewarded for placing high in the qualifiers, don't you think?

"Note: only players who finished 1st in their group can be in Pools 1 & 2. "

Did you read?

As I said, fucking retarded =)

I heard garpy did beat some random Swede online, though ;)

Nice try.

stermy
strenx
l1nkje
zsx

would be A(I)MAZING too bad it can't happen :<

seeing as fazz has quit gaming to pursue a career in the porno industry.... GO Z4MUZ!

lolwut?

love to see a brit make the playoffs !

garpy in the same seeding pool as noctis 'cause, you know, they're equally skilled

hm yeah, noctis in pool3 is a bit mad innit?

This tourneys gonna be very tight!

yes, like a man's a*us

mhmm idd

You're right, Asus is always tight. Pity the other Russians can't get visas/sponsors.

nice one :)

This tourney defo needs spammah.


and AGP certification STAT

cooller pool1 spartie pool2, lulz

all this pool whine would never had happend when we had used the solid AGP rankings!

(Id love to see some liefje action over Guard any day of the week!)

Hm, I'm all for sticking to a system, as long as it's not as problematic as this one.

This is poor seed design, no two ways about it.

sooo... where's the group drawings? It's sunday and the event is over :P

delayed

Looks like groups will be made tomorrow...

delayed, maybe tomorrow(tuesday)...

Thank you for the update sir.

i really hope cypher or cooller get put in a group with strenx. and rape him. hard. in the ass.

If they don't end up in the same group they can still physically rape him in the ass.

Anything with 'strenx' and 'raped in the ass' gets a +

tbh i would love to see cypher getting raped by strenx on lan, just to be destroyed by cooller afterwards
sadly it wont happen ;)

pervert

xou where are groups ?

"the groups drawings will be made during the CS and WoW Finals on ESL TV, probably Saturday"

Delayed :(