WMO

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No additional comments needed.
Also ban OP for asking the same question over and over again.

IE 3.0

Why do people like the IE3 and WMO so much? It seems like a lot of pros use it. But it has lower dpi than say a deathadder. I don't get it...

why would you want so high dpi?

dpi is not everything..

DPI really doesn't matter unless you're playing on ridiculously high sensitivities on ridiculously high resolutions. Even with a somewhat high sensitivity on 1280x1024, 400DPI is just fine. Gamers think they need 1800DPI because that's how the market advertises these products. They think they need it because it's shoved down their throats by companies like Razer. Look at top players like Stermy, fox, DKT, pretty much anyone who attended Dubai. They use sensitivity likes 4.8 @ 450DPI, and perform very well.

I partialy agree, but back in the day when 800dpi logitechs were out I clearly saw difference in precision on my high sens 800x600 settings. 400dpi may work for low sens with mouse smoothing on, but thats it.

You may be right, the only 800dpi mouse I used was the Salmosa, I can't say I really noticed a difference in terms of precision.

how's the salmosa a 800dpi mouse?

Because of the dpi switch that it has going between 800dpi and 1800dpi.

*turns mouse around and looks

aah... i see :d

You own a Salmosa and you didn't know of the existence of the switch? Fail...

It's still an 1800dpi mouse, it's not like thee are two sensors in there.

True, but if it's set to 800dpi, then it's effectively an 800dpi mouse. I think we're all intelligent enough here to know that it has the same sensor as the DA.

It's 1800dpi with a lower sensitivity. That's not effectively an 800dpi mouse, otherwise I can make my IE3.0 "effectively" an 800dpi mouse by doubling the sensitivity.

pretty much impossible to get

http://www.amazon.ca/Microsoft-B75-00113-Inte...amp;sr=8-3

yeah ebay and amazon, postal fee, month+ wait, dislike those. if they can't be found in stores, cba.

They're in stores here. Wal-Mart, Staples, Future Shop, etc.

here even the general representative of microsoft doesn't have them, nowhere.

Is the 3.0 for lefties aswell?

Not really =(

Btw, which mouse out their atm with a shape similiar to logitech's g3/g1/pilot/etc would u guys recommend?
Been useing WMO lately but i liked the shape of the g3 much more.

I'd say the Xai/Kinzu, but there seems to be accel problems with it.

Try the Salmosa, the shape is close to the G3.

no it's not. i switched from g3 to salmosa and it's nothing like it. stick with your g3 no need to change if you like the shape. good sensor and 1000hz usb.

Why not simply open up and fix your DA? Nothing that a can of Deoxit D5 power booster can't do to clean a dirty microswitch, and hyperglide feet are available; even black teflon feet are available from the razer website...

Throw it at a wall and just buy a new deathadder.

Alternatively why not take it apart and try putting the sensor in a cheap 3.0, It has the best sensor around and the only issue with it are the gay outward sloping sides.

And it would probably be lighter, which is interesting since the weight is one of the biggest flaws of the da.

Logitech MX518!

this

this also... =))

n that new Razer Imperator is okay too... except much more xpensive than MX518 =))

Sounds like you play exactly like stermy, although the location of that photo escapes me at the moment. He uses an IE 3.0 and likes it very much. It isn't terribly dissimilar to the death adder in shape and is a great mouse.

The best mice appear to be the WMO 1.1, IE 3.0, MX518, and the deathadder.

The reason those ms mice are popular is because of their shape, tracking, and price. Personally my 518 starts to experience some weird accel issues at dpi values higher than 400.

Another consideration is the steelseries Ikari laser, used by Bodzo and Dahang I believe. They also of course make the xai, but it has been a very controversial mouse so far.

To bad the WMO and 3.0 still got that vertical shit movement, try make a straight line in paint with it. If they fix this its the best choice ever!

Why whats wrong with it? Seems to follow my hand:

In case you are that uninformed, mouse prediction is BAD.

In case you are that BAD, it really isn't

got wmo after my mx310 died and i have mixed feelings about it. i love the shape and all, but negative acceleration really kills it for me. the mx310 sensor at 400dpi was brilliant imo.

does anyone know is the death adder *respawn* suffers from the same effects as the original when a low dpi is used, i think it got neg accel or smth. Seems silly to have to use a sens of 0.25

Hey some of the best authors of all time used simple writing tools. Buying a 5000$ pen won't help you tell a better story.

That's probably the worst analogy you could've possibly come up with. Seriously, that didn't even make sense.

i liked it, going from charcoal to pencil is like going from a ball mice to a laser/optical one.....

hmmm maybe it doesnt make sense.. /confused

Xai

Strange that noone mentions the Abyssus which from my point of view is the best mouse on the market.

lightweight ( is there a lighter one ?), no prediction , no negative or positive acceleration issues with the sensor/ firmware, no need for drivers and great shape and feel (better that salmosa which lacked some).

did i miss something ?

(no points for missing sidebuttons)

hmm, looks interesting! :o

isn't the abyssus basically an updated and shiny looking salmosa?

compared to the salmosa:

+ no prediction

- no mention of liftoff distance/ probably still sucks
- illumination
- price

+/- different shape
+/- about the same weight

that's a lot of money for such a small update. i'd personally prefer the ' feel' of a laser sensor and additionally razer has a long history of very cheap built quality with their 'entry level' stuff.

Yeah, but it's still not a bad rodent for $45. Razer's build quality has always been in question for ANY of their mice, not just their cheap stuff.

your salmosa had liftoff problems?

ye :( no good on a qck heavy compared to the logitech g3 and similar.

i had a ms 3.0 since 2001. the same exact one, and early *this* year a bought a salmosa, cause i figured that it would be impossible to find a new ms 3.0 after this one eventually dies, and the deathadder (which has the same shape) got terrible reviews here.

now, after spending pretty much your entire time of quake with the same mouse (8 fucking years), you're bound to whine about everything on the new one. And i got used to salmosa within 2 days, no liftoff distance (qck+), REALLY god sensor, light, symmetric, it's perfect. and costs like 2 wmo's (here, at least)

i'm much the same.
i originally started out with the ms3.0 and then changed to the logitech pilot shape and bought pretty much everything they put out: pilot - mx300 - g1 - g3. now i'm stuck with the salmosa and although it's good it's far from the 'perfect' mouse for me.

dunno why you get the liftoff bug, you have heavy, i have + qck, but the surface is the same, just thinner.

the only thing that kinda bugged me were the buttons which were kinda....noisy for a month or two.

The heavy affects the sensors quite differently for some reason.

It's the most comfortable pad but it seems to be the most problematic too :(

and goliathus?

way better imo

Only have a QcK+ Heavy (And an exactmat from a diamondback bundle!)

i wanted to get rid of the thin qck and go for heavy, cause the thin one kills your hand, but if it skips, i'm probably left with goliathus

With my WMO/3.0 it doesn't skip and lift off is fine but I constantly read reports of other mice having problems on it. My brothers DA has no problems though and he also has a QcK+ Heavy.

3,5G?

I think it's just 3G.

It makes me wary about buying a new mouse though (I seem to love buying mice even though I know they won't make a difference) as I love the thickness and comfort and the closest is the Razer, which is still thinner.

Ok senosor is great in salmosa. But compared to wmo and ie3.0 there is some slowness, like going from crt to tft screen. Shot sooner and movements seems less delayed on wmo and 3.0. Duno if razer does some processing of the mouse signal, making it slower (1000hz is just like packets, dont tell the "ping" time for the mouse)
Sucks i liked the shape, no neg accel and stuff the salmosa had. But its so slow try a-b test wmo and salmosa, with wmo its like one rails soner and it reacts soner to movement.

Interesting.

Have there been any mouse latency tests done by anyone? Not just the sensor but on the buttons too.

http://sousuch.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DIY/mouse_latency/index.html

They are still selling ms3.0's in the UK. bought one a few months ago.

Are you really that lazy, or forgetful? :o


Salmosa Fix.

that is not a fix but a weird hack. you make the salmosa track worse therefore the LOD changes, gg .)

As I said in the thread, the max. speed did not change measurably. But I get it, I would probably be as suspicious as you if I hadn't tried it all for myself.

My interpretation is, the salmosa (mine at least) has too much light, that's why the lift-off is good on a few surfaces, but too high on some others. If you dim the light, it is perfect on those surfaces that had too high lift-off before, but it will track worse on those that were good. So you can only tweak it for one surface, not all.

Here is the link to MouseTest.exe I used to test max. speed.

http://enotus.at.tut.by/Files/MouseTest.exe

It measured very accurately the 1.55 m/s of the WMO so I trust that it works. You have to set the correct dpi first, then to test move the mouse only horizontal to get accurate results. If you move the mosue slightly diagonal the results will be a little higher (better) because y-axis movement is also measured, this is a small bug.

every antivirus i tried goes nuts on mousetest.exe so i won't try that but i trust you enough to test your LODfix sometime... thanks :>

I'm pretty sure it does not contain a virus, it is a self-extracting archive though, that could explain the alerts.
(It extracts to one .exe with 14 MB and two dll's with ~500 KB, wich I scanned with Antivir and were found fine.)

But I'm not affiliated with the author, use at own risk.

Actually I am a very curious nerd, I own ms3.0 ,1.1, old DA and bought the xai, kinzu, salmosa and abyssus the last 2-3 months...

Yes its an updated salmosa with the updated 3g sensor, no prediction and better shape and surface.

Liftoff is the same as the new Deathadder, same hardware . On Qpad heaton and func 30R the liftoff is no problem with hyperglides but it skips on func 30R ( using 40-45 cm/ 360 ).

On qck liftoff is somwhat worse but still acceptable and and I cant get it to skip without using extreme speed. The hardware is worse than the old DA hardware but still very good.

But you right , this thread http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/forums/thread/417172/ implies issues with many mats.

yes the illumination sucks

Shape is subjective but i cant recall hearing about someone prefering salmosa over abyssus. Its small changes but they make a big difference for me at least, from "bad but good enough" to great.

If you own a salmosa and your happy with the shape and dont mind the prediction then i wouldnt bother buying it.

oh, dont bother with the kinzu, its crap.
The xai got positive acceleration issues, small but clearly noticable when trying different mice at the same dpi.

The Deathadder is good but too heavy for most i guess.

The old microsoft mice are preferable if used with high enough sense and acceleration preventing you from reaching the rather low max speed.

thanks, i'm a curious nerd too :p

* the old ms mouse are not what i want because i'd hate to go back to manually overclocking the usb port and i'm unsure but might need more than 400dpi because of my sens/movement
* the razer da is far too heavy for me
* the g3 is a little too heavy for me and the shape is good but not great
* the g9x and xai share the same sensor and the same problems with pos. acc. (?)
* the g5 and similar share a shape that doesn't work for me at all

so i'm stuck with a salmosa and am unwilling to pay real money for the abyssus. hm :<

stick with salmosa until g9x firmware update comes out to fix positive accel. logitech is working on it according to the logitech forums.
i'm in the same boat as you and using salmosa myself. have my g9x in the closet

"oh, dont bother with the kinzu, its crap."

why ?

While i loved the shape and weight of the kinzu, it has both negative and positive acceleration at different speeds. It also skips at really low speed making it unusable for most people.

It has low liftoff but the original feet is the worst I seen and hyperglides increase the height too much for the sensor to work.

They have released new drivers and seem to try to fix the problem but I am not holding my breath on this one

i don't use any drivers lol

seems fine to me

could be smoother @ windows though. But the rest is fine.

(default dpi & 500 hz & QcK+)

sorry, was unclear

check and forward discussion.
http://www.fragyou.net/2009/11/24/kinzu-softw...ment-38448

latest driver seemed to help some people while other dont notice any diffrence at all with .9 and .10

if I find time I will explore later

also,

you can get replacement feet , hopefully for free but probably not..

http://www.fragyou.net/2009/11/24/kinzu-softw...ment-38687

yeah I see.

Maybe I get some pos/neg accel, but personally I don't care. The sensor is still decent, and I
don't feel like it will affect my performance ingame in a negative way. Just tried every kind of
sensitivity (low to low-med to high to low+mouseaccel) and I didn't get any major pb, it was
pretty confortable at all of those settings.

Just before the kinzu, I used to play with the razer krait, pretty good mouse, but the kinzu
has a lil better shape, it's more confortable overall.
Before the krait, I used to play with a razer Habu, crap mouse (at least at low sens), no grip at all.
Same thing for the copperhead, which had a weird shape for my style of mouse holding. And the
sensor was crap at low sens.
My first "gaming" mouse was the diamondback, it's basically like the krait, good mouse.

If I have to compare the kinzu with all of these mouses, I would say :
kinzu > krait >= diamondback >>> habu > copperhead,

at least for my style of play.

noone suggesting (beside yuka) a g9x? i tried it maybe a week after i bought deathadder and i was really pissed for not tested it before. small, light, good sensor with a shape that suited to me perfectly. now i am stuck with deathadder wich is not a bad mouse at all. all i hate is liftoff distance, shape and weight. i really hope it will brake down soon.

Because the shape is wierd, small, and designed for specific type of grip. The G500 and the Xai offer's the more traditional grip but with the same sensor.

the g9x is no option, it looks kinda ugly don't think it will fit in my hands with that weird shape

i thought the same. i have big hands and it didnt seem it will fit. mouse is ugly and everything but it really felt right. i was used to mx300 before.

i think k1llsen uses one... atleast he mentioned something like that in some thread here

wmo is perfect.

what the hell is that?

i have a goliathus control btw

alot of people things the G9X is ugly but once they tried it its actually quite comfortable.

if you palm grip... easily the iem 3.0

Purchased a DA 3.5g recently, got a chance to play with it last night, happy with it so far, gonna test a wmo i also bought, and will be sending the DA back if i preffer the wmo to it.. we will see :)

will go for a iem 3.0 then, had one some time ago but not for long, pet bite through the cord :/

btw anyone has experience with hyperglides n stuff? any useful?

Hyperglides are the shit, get them.

it depends on your handsize and the mousesize i guess, dunno i dont feel comfortable with smaller mouses as well as too big ones

okay, after talking lots with people i came to the conclussion i'm gonna get a intelli 3.0 and a roccat sense glacier pad

okay i bought another deathadder instead of the 3.0 i couldn't resist :<