sunday is 22nd btw :>

oopsy

maybe the fnatic ql team should try to play some of their games instead of only organising cups

This has nothing to do with our QL team.

That's exactly the problem

That makes 0 sense..

We want fnatic QL team to participate in fnatic QL tourneys. What's so hard to understand?

Because apparently you don't understand him or his English sucks. What he said here was that Fnatic.QL should play their matches and not organize cups.

But that relates to the original point too

It does not because the QL team doesn't organize the cups :P

... and not only organize cups :)

They don't organize cups at all..

It was not the point of that post. The point was: fnatic should not only organize cups, but also play in them. It doesn't matter much, what subdivision of fnatic organizes them, it's your internal affairs.

PLAY and fnatic the gaming organization are seperate from each other. But to go in to your other point; the Fnatic players have actually attended previous cups (minus the 2v2 one as no one was available). A good example is l1nkje winning one of our first duel cups.

only on esr.

He was not fnatic yet then :)
And also strenx played in 2-nd cup, I know.
But more specifically my (and I presume, the original poster's) point is: fnatic has (arguably) the best ctf team in the world, that never plays anywhere. God damn it, can't they participate at least once, at least in the tourney that has the name of their own organization?

Bunch of idiots they are! I will force them to play this time.

That's my exactly my intention. They got one of the best teams and got kicked out of every ClanBase tournament they signed in because they didn't play a single game and I would really like to see them playing - at least once.

IEM tomorrow!!!

ctf?

This guy speaks the truth.

this guy does you mean

Maybe you should sort your cup out rather than whining about 1 clan.

Why you're dragging this shit out I have no idea. It'll have been over 1 month since our last CTF match in the cup because of your delays. Rather than the shit schedule you had set out you should have:
1. Set a deadline of all unplayed matches to be done by 15th (LOL@setting a deadline just to ARRANGE overdue matches).
2. At this point any unplayed matches (unless teams have good excuses should have been set to 0-0.
3. Put up playoffs on the 15th allowing people to schedule matches. Setting this deadline to this Sunday.

What I whine about or not is 100% my thing and I dont care at all if you like it or not. And if I want to say my opinion I can do it and it doesnt matter if you can understand it or not...

That your clan played no match for 1 month is not my problem. Last matchweek ended 1 1/2 weeks ago and it's surely not my delay. Inform yourself before posting bullshit which is far beyond reality.

If you don't like my settings and schedule for the cup well than it's your problem. Maybe think about your post. deadline for unplayed matches to 15th unless they got a good excuse. The teams would surely have good excuse especially because it were 3 teams with 2 or 3 games which means only few days for 3 games only for CB. So they would take it as excuse and play the match during the next week (week we are currently in). I'm fair and give them enough time to play to avoid more drops and def wins. Anyway if we take your suggestion we got time till 15th + good excuse means more time = 1 aditional matchweek means until 22nd. Well take a look at my schedule - matches have to be done till 22nd suprise suprise.

Deadline for playoffs to this sunday with 2 division not finished yet and unplayed matches which will be played tomorrow. So you mean giving 2 division 2-3 hours to schedule match until schedule deadline and I force matches?! Not really fair and surely not the best way to do it.


At all: if you don't like the way I supervise the cup well I have to admit that I don't care that much. Instead of doing any productive work (don't say I made 2 reports - they are just to bring your clan into spotlight not to make coverage for the cup) you whine here and talk bullshit. If you don't like it don't play next season. I'm not reliant on you/your clan and I prefer 1 clan less instead of this bullshit talk tbh.

If you think you can do it any better maybe you should apply for supervisor for next season. I didn't want to and didn't have enough time to supervise this season but as noone else signed up for supervisor slajer asked me if I can do it and instead of playing no ql ctf cup @ cb at all I did the job with less coverage etc. And as there was no co-sup (got one since 3 weeks only) and no matchadmins (apart from you who did 2 great reports) I was on my own with the whole work and still there is no big delay or anything else. But I'm absolutly 100% convinced that you can do much better and that you will surely sign up as supervisor for next season and lead a fantastic cup with any delay any drops any default games. GL for that

ouze...what do you expect? If you played last season you would have seen me whine about the servers. The CB servers didn't have spec slots (dont know if thats changed) so it was impossible to ref other matches. If you look at the TDM page I did a report on a clan besides my own.

If you forced results on the 15th then they wouldnt just have a few hours to arrange their playoff games they'd have 6 days.

By a good excuse I mean none of the other clans members being in their irc channel and not replying to CB pms. Otherwise it'd be 0-0. The delays are from allowing 1 whole week just to schedule overdue mathes and then another whole week to play it. If you had said like 3 days to arrange then a week to play then the playoff teams could have 4 days to arrange the playoff matches & then play 1/2 weeks earlier.

I don't like QL so I have no motivation to be a QL sup. That and Slajer doesnt like me.

cool another day with 3 tournaments ; /

And if we're lucky maybe for one of them there will be some shitty laggy unwatchable homemade stream...

... Where is our f***ing GTV????????

My stream is perfect :)

irc: #lvl^

http://nvcgamer.eu/lvlup.html

cool. keep the cups coming. ql cups is the with with sundays!

huh?

Yey, 2 cards and 2 bags for first place, 2 people are going to be dissapointed.........

yeah feel sorry for those that end up with the cards...:[

Random Lol

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/6338139/16440695

Would be nice to tick in the proper category next time :)

What time exactly?

Yet to be decided. Btw we changed to Saturday, 21st of November.

Let me know when you decided : ]

hello,
I dont want to talk about that on esr " again"
Could you just respond to my mail...pls

We explained it here on ESR, in the last PLAY related post.

impressive, so cause you choose a retard sponsorship, player never get their prizes !

cool

That's past. We are really sorry but it happened. I really don't want to explain it again, I am tired of that. Winners of previous tournaments (non-BestPoker sponsored) can vouch for the fact that they got their money and hardware.

Hey hi im headz from procedemus.
To start, i registered my team but didn't set the country can u change it please and add europ team.
By the way when are the wars? i heard that games would be scheduled on saturday's night??? No one are playing on this day they are leaving to pub with friends, would be nice to keep it on sunday's night pls. Or we can't play if u want to schedules games on saturday's night.
Thx to reply me quickly
[email protected] if u want.
headz

u r very important team
NOT

They would actually be top contenders.

headphones?:F

hey, they said up front who will sponsor the event. So, you choose to play in a tournament with a retard sponsor ;)

good decision, last sunday was a mess

intresting

killerNIC? hrhr

Saturday sucks. :|

i would suggest you post the prize money next time in indian rupies, so the number looks even bigger !!
no offense - just looks funny for a euro based cup...
maybe its just a typo... but i doubt it :D

My guess is the network cards are only sold in USA cause noone here would buy this crap

No they're just a newer company in a niche market and havent gone global yet. The technology itself isn't 'crap' it's just that the small advantages it does bring aren't worth the premium they ask for.

Don't sign up for this cup if you really want the prizes because they prolly won't give them to you...
We are still waiting for the money they owe us when we played the CA cup they have organized months ago.
Even though it might not be their fault but their sponsor's at the time (bestpoker), they should assume responsibility and pay from their pocket...
They are just ignoring us, It's a shame.

Or play because prizes will be paid out and hopefully a fun cup. Unless people like you .....

People like me? Ôo
Since you are not familiar with this, you shouldn't make any insinuation imo.
The first sentence i said may be a little harsh but that's the feeling i have toward this organization atm.
I think i'm not the one who should get reproaches, i'm pointing the fact that my team (weird monkeys), poc and fishsticks didn't get anything that time.
I'm deliberately giving them bad publicity because it wasn't fair to us...

But hey, you are maybe trolling fnatic\spartie ;).

Ask zyv and noctis if they got their stuff asap from the 2v2 tourney

Bestpoker is not a part of fnatic anymore.

The money and prizes come from fnatic themselfs now.

There is nothing we can do now and we have already said sorry for this. So if u don't wanna play in our cups thats fine.

But prizes will be paid out. So your the one whos missing out.

Yes there's something you can do...
Some fnatic admin told crv they would pay if the problem wasn't sorted out with bestpoker but i guess they changed their position...
It's sad that you can't even pay out some minor prizes like that.
I really don't care about the money, i'm just saying this out of principle because you should keep your word...
It's the adult thing to do and not blaming only the sponsor and voilŕ it's over don't complain anymore plz go away... Too easy...

I could start a tourney tomorrow and put on my website "hell yeah 10 000$ for the winner" and then retract myself by saying my main sponsor ran out on me... Sure people would understand :).
In general, we cannot be 100% sure that the prizes will get to us by entering an online tourney or whatever. That's zee internet!!
GGL is a good example among others sadly.

It's nice to know that everything seems ok with your new sponsors but what good does it bring to us?

I think i won't answer to anymore replies. I made my point.

"It's nice to know that everything seems ok with your new sponsors but what good does it bring to us?"

You can enter these and be assured that you actually get your prizes, that's what it brings to you.

I'm really sorry for the whole Bestpoker thing, but welcome to eSports. If you rage for a year about a small prize for an online cup, don't attend LAN events as most tend not to pay out either these days.

The LEAST fnatic could have done was to pay out those prizes, that - even yourself - consider to be minor prizes.
Yes, some organizations (teams/events) tend not to pay out prizes, but as sad as this observation is, it shouldn't be an excuse for fnatic to escape their duties.
Yes, I understand BestPoker is to blame in that case (I'm aware you always delivered prizes in those cups that you held), but as an organizer, you offered some prizes and you can't blame players for requesting those. You should pay them out and then eventually complain/sue Bestpoker by pushing forward your contract.
I do believe fnatic is trying to bring seriouness in eSports and I guess it must be a real struggle to get all the money owed by various event sponsors, so at least, show them the right path. That would increase your image of high profile team not only amongst future partners but also players.
The way you're handling this issue right now is simply unfair for the concerned players and bad publicity for your own team.

well, the problem is, if bestpoker wasn't some sponsor but the official organizer, while fnatic provided the staff ( (like roychez says), then fnatic has no grounds to sue them. Because they are not involved with the prizes, which in that case should have gone directly from Bestpoker to the players.

In that szenario, If fnatic send those prizes and then went on to sue bestpoker, every judge would tell them there nothing he can do.

The only thing fnatic could to is to support the players, for example by providing documents that show what deal they had with bestpoker.

I agree Bestpoker fooled fnatic, but as bad is this can be, the players shouldn't be victims of those negligence. Fnatic obviously picked the wrong partner, and as roychez stated, they won't be working with them anymore. Still, the players aren't responsible, fnatic should help.

uhm, are you sure terms like "victims" and "help" are appropiate?

I mean it was supposed to be a fun, online tournament with some small prizes to increase the excitement.
I don't think any one of the winners build their future on earning those winnings. So, victim is really an overstatement imo...



Anyway, I just looked at their site, and on the right hand site it clearly says:

Sponsor: bestpoker.com

so, this discussion is moot, fnatic claimed on the page that they were the organizers and bestpoker a mere sponsor!

Yep, this is discussion is pointless if you think fnatic can get away like this.
Offering prizes doesn't cut the fun part of the tournament ; players certainly played that cup for fun, even though they genuinely requested their prizes afterward. Their request is legitimate, fnatic should just extend an open hand to players, 300$ ain't much.

It has nothing to do with building those players personal success and everything to do with an e-sports organization maintaining their integrity even if they have to bear the weight of the cost. That's all he's getting at imo.

well, I guess there are two (and probably more) ways how this can be structured.


a) Fnatic initiates and runs the tournament and look for sponsors for prizes. In that case fnatic should in fact be liable, cause they chose the sponsor and did get what they wanted: Publicity through people playing in their tournament.

b) Bestpoker initiated the tournemant and offered the prizes. But since they don't have the know-how themselves used the staff and infrastructure of fnatic. In that case, fnatic just provided a service for bestpoker, so they are not responsible for the prizes. So, you should approach bestpoker directly, telling them that they made a contract and should better honor it.



I can't say which of the structures it really is. But I think you might not be aware that b is at least a possibility.

It was B until they "bailed" on us.

just looked on the tournament page:

http://play.fnatic.com/tournaments/6/details/ (look on the right hand side)


I'm sorry but that is clearly and without doubt A. As in you presented yourself as the organizer and bestpoker as the sponsor. It doesn't even say there that the prizes are sponsored by bestpoker!

In light of this, I believe you are clearly breaking a promise and most likely a contract as well.
Pay up.

I don't really feel like defending myself because one word is wrongly placed in your eyes. But I will anyway. This whole thing was set up together with Bestpoker and they would be paying out all the prizes through their system, the only thing we would be doing is getting sign-ups and running the event itself. This was all said in the launching post of PLAY and every pre-tournament post said that the prizes were paid by Bestpoker.

And how did we break a contract? No players attending the tournament ever signed a contract o_O

not all contracts have to be signed to be binding.

You offered a deal on your website: Win the tournament, get money.
The players accepted your offer by entering, while you accepted the deal by accepting them in the tournament.
If that happen in real life, we here call it a "verbal contract". However, since I am not sure about the internet law on that, I wrote "most likely". Imsg paladia, he probably knows.



And you really shouldn't defend the topic cause you really can't.
It does not matter in the slightest whether you misplced the word intentionally or by accident. It is not obvious that bestpoker are responsible for the prizes, so the people who offered them, i.e. fnatic, are.
It's your problem to get reimbursed afterwards.


Imo, fnatic should pay and regard it as a paid lesson in law, picking sponsors and last but not least website design.

A binding contract has to be signed. In this case it should be in our legal terms, which it is not. Even if it was it would say that Bestpoker (or any other sponsor) is responsible for the prizes. "Gentleman agreements" don't work in this age and time anymore.

I can defend this topic. I could as well say that you can't discuss this topic as you don't know all details. I can't give them since most are private.

It comes down that Bestpoker and our current sponsors are responsible for the prizes for the tournament they sponsor. They offer them, they send them out. It's unfortunate that Bestpoker pulled out, but that's eSports (could say life too), but we have to deal with it. We've dealt with it by moving on and doing business in another way than we did with Bestpoker.

A binding contract has to be signed.

Which is where you are wrong. Take public transportation for example, you agree to a contract everytime you get on the bus, the tram, the train or whatever. But you never sign anything.

Offers are binding too btw ;)

You sign by getting your ticket stamped. Which is on paper, though this is not contractual so an invalid argument.

Just to pipe up in relation to the non-payment. It is unfortunate that your sponsor bailed on you...However, as fnatic is a member of G7 teams, i.e. the organisation that is chasing up non-payments, shouldn't ye pay the €300 as a show of good-will / positive PR / doing what ye expect other organisations to do?

Or can the CPL turn around and just say "sponsor bailed". As the CPL has been bought out despite closure, I would expect them to pay - you buy the assets and liabilities (in this case, unpaid prizes)

Finally, that one word that is causing issues - that becks has pointed out - is quite important. It's like the CPL "awarding" $3 million - it does not mean "paid" and changes the meaning of the sentence completely. If fnatic is the organiser with bestpoker as the sponsor, then perhaps it is understandable. However, it does not appear that way especially as any event is titled fnatic PLAY xxxxxx tournament.

"A binding contract has to be signed."

That's complete bullshit, at least in most European countries. Anyway how much money are we talking? If it's like 100-200$, why the hell didn't you(fnatic) just pay it out yourselves? It was completely your responsibility, blaming sponsor is ridiculous if we're talking such low figures. You fully deserve the criticism of the frustrated players.

A binding contract has to be signed. In this case it should be in our legal terms, which it is not. Even if it was it would say that Bestpoker (or any other sponsor) is responsible for the prizes. "Gentleman agreements" don't work in this age and time anymore.

wrong, you might wanna go check the facts in written law.
contracts do not have to be signed. Go ask a lawyer if you don't believe me or wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract#Formalities_and_writing.

You are also wrong in your assessment of public transportation. The transportation company offers the contract by displaying service and price, you accept the contract by paying that price. With stamping you kind of "activate" that contract.


So no, I really don't think you can defend yourself. Your organisation made a mistake, it's as simple as that.
Frauds try to wiggle their way out of it, serious businesses pay what they owe and learn from the mistake.


/e

to further explain:

It comes down that Bestpoker and our current sponsors are responsible for the prizes for the tournament they sponsor. They offer them, they send them out. It's unfortunate that Bestpoker pulled out, but that's eSports (could say life too), but we have to deal with it. We've dealt with it by moving on and doing business in another way than we did with Bestpoker.

is not enough, because you only gave those information after the fact. If you had a statement in your rules that says that the sponsor is responsible for the prizes that wouldbe fine. If you don't then that is your fault, and now you are effectively trying to trick people.

A binding contract has to be signed. In this case it should be in our legal terms, which it is not.

how old are you? 12? a binding contract does not have to be signed. stop pretending to be some sort of pr guy for fnatic you're making them look worse with every post of yours.

like sabre0001 brought up.

Maybe you should just go and file a complaint with the G7. I am very curious to see how they react.

we got the money instantly



still waiting for the headphones tho :P

saturdays hell yeah

I sense irony

We do it Sunday; people whine that it's too busy, we do it Saturday; first it's all good, and now they whine again. Awesomeness!

if u didn't expect anything less from esr u haven't been here long enough.

:)

1. Pick the option with the least whine?
2. ????
3. Profit

Correction: not with least whine, but with most support. F@#k the whiners, they're not important.

some people have time on sunday, some on saturday. both wanna play, if they cant, they will post about it. perfectly fine and logical

Make l1nkje play, thanks.

Instead of making another cup, as is seems fnatic has money for it, why not beeing smart and first paying the "previous" cup instead? After this, the seriousness of this organisation would be unquestionable, which is not the case yet.
slx

PM Bestpoker, it's their money you won.

"as is seems fnatic has money for it" - Fnatic and PLAY are two different things. Fnatic might have the money for it, but PLAY only gets the money/prizes by current sponsors, who are not eager to pay out prizes for a tournament not sponsored by them.

if you give your name to a project, you are involved, you have answer for it somehow or your reputation is at stake. its obv bad for bestpokers reputation, cause they are directly responsible but you cant put your name on something, profit from it and not take resonsiblity at all. its a risk you (as the organizer, fnatic/play or whatever) should cover, not the players... thats how i see it and thats why fnatic/play i lost some of my respect for it, bestpoker being backing out or not

Anyhow, instead of turning every PLAY topic into a whine orgy about old cups, let's keep it on-topic and continue your whine in the original PLAY post, please, as this doesn't change anything and only gets people annoyed.

lmao less than a week ago G7 post this and now we have fnatic saying "shit happens you don't get prizes deal with it" gg

its not that simple, but that also made me smile

stream?

Any coverage?

Stream: http://www.levelupyourgame.net/?43997170 http://nvcgamer.eu/lvlup1.html
It's fail stream url day it seems

Enjoy the tournament everyone!

someone record l1nkjes POV thanks!

lol

enjoying. specially waiting for fnatic vs yoyo

Would be nicer if those levelup guys didn't constantly type some shit in console for 90% of the time or show us scoreboard when something interesting is happening.

All nvc's fault.

I want my mousepads :D

It was nice, allthough ctf truely needs more maps.
siberia and ironworks are nice and that's it. ctf2 games were horrible, besides the few nice offensive rj's.

I also barely noticed good coordinated attacks, maybe it's my lack of experience that I don't see it tho.

hahaha, 2.0 win versus exec....

GG fnatic

Demos? VODs? Anything? :|

DEMOS DEMOS DEMOS DEMOS DEMOS