looks cool, hope this is really playable in tdm

A clan arena map that is suitable for tdm, 1v1 and FFA?

I smell vapourware ;)

ca2 already accomplishes this whether people utilize it or not!

even for 1on1?

Not sure about qzca2, but in general the kind of open architecture needed for ca maps makes tdm games degenerate into ffa cess (see dm6). As it stands, the only good tdm map in QL is dm14 imo, which i don't think anyone would consider playing ca on

nice UT map

haha, exactly :DD

first thought was they picked up dm-rankin from ut2k4 and modified it .. they both have quite the same style of textures :D

my first thought exactly - wow dm-rankin

hahaha

that's what i was thinking lol.

looks outstanding, I just hope that they will release new duel maps as well..

finally a map that seems kind of ok

I hope there's as little fog in this map as the preview images allude to.

Reminds me of playing Kingping..I like it :)

looks good
CA babeh!

their next series should be: 6 translations in 6 weeks -- where they create maps based off those in non-quake series (ut, wsw, cs etc)

CS maps? Are you out of your fucking mind?

listing games; all i want is some of the good ut maps to be brought over

Looks like another CA map with too many goddamn hallways. :<

design wise looks cool :D

oh my

suitable for 1 vs 1

LOL

i expected a more ra3 style map tbh
though im glad the way it looks, cause qzca2 was nearly playable for duel, maybe this times its actually works for more than one mode

Oh could it be a new versatile map which might replace DM6 as allround map? :D

no

From gothic aesthetics to metallic and sterile and now with urban decay flavor. On top of that comes the QL webapp & logo with generic 2.0 look. I hate to see thay are still strugling (or just dont care) with the overall look / theme of the game.
You are constantly thrown out of the game because of the non-unified visuals starting from the game browser to entering the dm arena. Quake needs a serious visual rebranding.

agree, needs more egyptian, aztec, majan, gothic style maps. All those futuristic maps are boring :(

The problem with themed texture sets is it has a habbit of constraining the level design to the point where you find yourself making things look how you expect people want them to. Which then effects the level design/time.

The current sets are pretty generic I agree, but it allows a lot more freedom and maps to be made with less art direction.

If you look at something like cod 4, thats a good example of building level designs which fit the texture sets, but it does not always transfer to the best MP designs IMO but that and CS get away with it as its more realistic to play.

The gameplay of quake is IMO suited to the level layouts that defy logic.

The more themed the texture set is, the the more illogical quake as you know it will look. Then you'll start going on about the geometry not represnting the texture sets which is so 1998.

So that is the real reason why. its jsut a much bigger investment in resources/time etc.

There are plenty of theemed quake 3 level but you know why they never took off, because they play shit. Most of the time the people building them are constrained by the architectural expectations vs their, shall we say desire and ability to make a map that plays well.

its very difficult for Quake gameplay to fit into strong themes.
That's why its always been brown, or generic stone walls, etc.

Compromise!

don't remember ospdm11 playing shit in 2v2 :p

http://foros.gxzone.com/attachments/29819d1217998993-ospdm11.jpg

I'm not sure this counts as an architectural masterpiece!

But it doesn't have to be :P

You make the map, then add the theme with a bit of flare where you can.

Not that easy though.

"We did have another texture set created for Aztec-style architecture but one of our level designers couldn't get any ideas or inspiration from it so we had to drop the entire texture set..."

As Romero said, when you use a themed texture set it has a nasty habbit of constraining the design. Even back then.
So imagine now, with the expectations.

Also if you want flair, it means that more often than not the backgrounds have to be passed onto an artist to put that flare in as most designers are not 3D artists and have limited 3D skills, at least compared to 3D artists.

That leaves using prefabs from the singleplayer, so again, its a compromise from my expereince and its not gonna get any better with today's expectations.

Its time and money, vs, why don't we just be generic.

Do any layout we want.
Stay in complete control of map.
Quicker turnaround/cheaper dev.

Easy to see why its how it is.

Obviously for QL it's not worth the time or the effort to do anything amazing.

I guess it depends on how seriously the themes are taken, I mean ospdm11 clearly doesn't take the Egyptian theme all that seriously and is mostly just stone work textures with a couple of obelisks.

The trick is using flexible themes like gothic, industrial and sci-fi but I see no reason why a flexible generic "Ancient" theme couldn't be used just as well.

For what it's worth I think Method makes his maps look great, the only "problem" with them is that when compared to the Q3 art direction they're a bit more serious in tone (as opposed to slightly cartoonish) and that makes QL a bit messy in the art direction.

Edit: In fact, ospdm11 is the least Egyptiany themed Egyptian map ever! another good example of a map using a theme but it not constraining the actual design would be q3wcp1 (Jap Castles).

good point

needs more Shub-Niggurath

more delta force 1 please
:P

Niggurath plz!

In Q3 there are lots of different themed maps, I wonder why I'd doesn't consider any of those themes?

Some examples.

mayan, egyptian, aztec or any open terrain maps have no place in quake imo, plus they remind me of serious sam which was one great non-pretentious, fps-parody of a game.

I've always liked the cell shaded maps. They are basically the brightskin of maps. It would be cool to have cell shaded version of every map as replacement for picmip. Other than that choosing a overall theme for quake at this point is a lost cause.

btw i really like what they've done with Rage, being PA and all...

I just realised you would prefer all maps to be in the same theme.

I want my [+] back.

I still agree with him on the majority of his opinion though.

Quake Live is a visual mess and needs its own visual identity. This doesn't need to be a single theme but it would still help the game.

Yeah, I was wondering why he got so many plusses for such a retarded comment, then I realized he was complaining, which is pretty much 100% golden around here.

So, Rizzo, what happens when the visual theme changes? Do you lose the plot? Is the Lore believability dwindling every time you bounce from Longest Day to Campgrounds?

Fuck the plot! I was talking about the visual fluidness of the game.

Just look how blizzard managed to unify not a single game but 3 different ips with diablo 3, wc3 and sc2 as opposite how looked in sc, d1 and wc1/2.

im not sure, but this sounds like you are happy that wc3/sc2 and d3 all have the same crappy cartoonish design ... :F

I like the more saturated look of the games and the decision to keep the isometric pov. The cartoony look of diablo 3 now is more subtle since the original art director is gone.

"im not sure, but this sounds like you are happy that wc3/sc2 and d3 all have the same crappy cartoonish design ... :F "

lol. SC2 looks very different than wc3. D3 also looks very different than wc3. D3 & SCII visuals are also different, overall (the only similarity is maybe the textures color theme).

War3 is full of color, SCII isn't (except for the protoss, maybe, but still, the yellow is dominant). Starcraft has always been a mix of realistic & cartoonish gfx.

the immersion should come from the dynamic between one player and the next, not between the player and the map theme.

I have no idea what any map in Quake looks like, my picmip's too high.

Again. Nobody is talking about the plot or the gameplay here... We can pretty much agree that the game play is golden by now and the story is not worth mentioning. But unlike the plot the visual styling cannot be overlooked.

That's actually exactly what I'm talking about. One map has fuckall to do with any other map. Why should there be a theme? What theme would truly encompass all of what Quake is about? You'll get different answers from every player to that question.
The "visual styling" should be at 0 importance, at least concerning continuity. Sure, I want the maps to play well, and for the newbies I guess it should look nice *shrug*.. but whether one map has anything whatsoever in common with another map should not matter at all.

But unlike the plot the visual styling cannot be overlooked.

YES, IT CAN.

You said it yourself, good looking maps would be better to attract new players. There's nothing that stops a map from having good gameplay and visuals. And I think having a common theme is much better.

Oh that's right, this is Quake, let's all settle with mediocrity.

Yes, because mediocrity comes from diversity, and true highbrow visuals all look the same. That's why Dali and Escher's work look practically identical.
????

So.. Since you think it's an option... (lol)... let's hear it. What is the theme that all QuakeLive maps should have?

Yes, because mediocrity comes from diversity, and true highbrow visuals all look the same. That's why Dali and Escher's work look practically identical.
????

sigh

So.. Since you think it's an option... (lol)... let's hear it. What is the theme that all QuakeLive maps should have?

Something not gothic.

"Something not gothic. "

lol
That's not an answer, first of all... secondly, a lot of quakers prefer the gothic look. I liked the vibe of QuakeWorld maps much more than Quake 2 maps, but that's my preference. Fortunately, there's a large amount of diversity in the map stylings in the quake series, so I can get what I want, and [insert person here who has other preferences than my own] can get what they want, too.

Removing "gothic" leaves everything else as an option, but you want a singular theme.
So I ask again. What one, single, continuous theme do you think Quake is supposed to share? And what makes you think that's what the majority of Quake players want?

Well, I would make something modern/futuristic, considering the player models and some weapons.

Do you have any stats about "lots of quake players like gothic"? I'm sure "lots of" other players like some other style too. :)

"And what makes you think that's what the majority of Quake players want? "

That's my opinion, I can't speak on behalf of everyone.

Do you have any stats about "lots of quake players like gothic"? I'm sure "lots of" other players like some other style too. :)

Yeah, of course, but unlike you, I'm fine with them having completely different tastes than I do, because I don't think Quake maps should necessarily have a shared theme, so one map being gothic, the next being space-map, then on to the mayan style, and ending in some WSW'esqe cell shaded map, would be fine by me, all in one sitting, on one server.

one major advantage of using gothic style is because it hides most inefficiencies of the q3 engine, most level geometry is pretty much cubical. in cod4 (based on q3 engine) if you havent noticed devs have tried to hide the blockiness of the level architecture by throwing in a lot of props. gothic style however fits perfectly with that blockiness, that's a major reason (along with strong art direction) that quake still looks good compared say to first medal of honour which is based on the same q3 engine but uses it in the way that exposes its weak sides.

COD x has the problem of replicating the realworld and that eats triangles because people have an expectation of how it should look because they have somethign to compare it too.

Quake has nothing to answer too, so it will always stand the test of time.

Also the modelling tools are poop in all those games.

Quake/doom 3/Ut/CS, I hate using them, which is why I don't.
even in crysis, great for outdoors, not so nice for interiors.

If you've been spolied with maya or max to make levels you would realise what a pig it is to make intricate geometry in those games.
It encourages you to be cubic, but its not engine thing IMO, its an editor thing.

The props are usually made in a proper 3D package, so they are probly using them to hide the pain they went through.

You still aware that we are talking about id and carmack here? The guys are basically the cutting edge in that department.

Any way... the reason I think quake is lacking good visual direction because they messed it up from the start.

John Romero: Nope. Quake was one original idea that got changed 7 months before shipping to something totally different and the name remained because the world already knew what the game was called.
scar3crow: Only 7 months? Would you mind shedding some light on how it was changed so quickly? I know many people, including myself, had the impression that it went through varous stylistic changes, and believed that the texture set was evidence of such. Put that on top of the rumors one hears of it beginning as an RPG, to a hack and slash, up into a first person shooter, and one can construe many ideas as to what the designs were originally like.
John Romero: Originally the game was going to be much more like an adventure or experience - you traveled through a full 3D world with your massive hammer which increased in power as you defeated enemies, much like Link's sword in the Zelda series. That was the idea but there was never any game code to prove out the idea. So we reached a boiling point where some of the dev team was very worried that we wouldn't be able to release the game within a year after our first year of development and they started to freak out. We held a vote and the vote was to just slap in DOOM-style weapons and polish it off and get it out the door. So i rewrote the design, defined the weapons, level-order, etc and we just plowed through it and released it on June 22, 1996. We did have another texture set created for Aztec-style architecture but one of our level designers couldn't get any ideas or inspiration from it so we had to drop the entire texture set...

...so now we know where the medieval / gothic look came from, than they switched it up with the strogg. Q3 was just pleasing the both communities by including maps from the both worlds. AFAIK carmack said that the strogg theme was the one where he saw quake belongs and thats what they used for q4.

So.. Since you think it's an option... (lol)... let's hear it. What is the theme that all QuakeLive maps should have?

I guess they could avoid copying identically the style of UT maps?

http://www.radi0active.net/unrealite/img/news...assic2.jpg


i'd rather them keep up with the Quake universe styled maps (pentagrams, skulls) in contrast to the hyper fantasy futuristic stuff from UT.

afaik, they've already replaced all of the pentagrams with quakelive logos. I'm not sure, I use picmip 15.

"Just look how blizzard managed to unify not a single game but 3 different ips with diablo 3, wc3 and sc2 as opposite how looked in sc, d1 and wc1/2."

ROFL. So wrong.

Watch the last battle.net repport video of SC2, it's basically SC1 polished and in 3D. SC1 is kinda cartoonish (for example the siege tank). Same for wc1/wc2.
Wc2 & 3 are very colorful. Starcraft is balanced. Starcraft is a mix of realistic & cartoonish design. Warcraft tends to be more cartoonish. Diablo 3 isn't cartoonish, it has a more "serious" look overall.

I think you can tell they have they the same stylistic influences though, as if they have all been designed by a single artist who has his own unique way of creating worlds/characters et cetera.

You could instantly look at any of those games without any knowledge of what the game was and say "That's a Blizzard game" as opposed to say Valve with TF2 and L4D which couldn't be further from each other.

kinda true

third one in "Maya/Nature themed" looks perfect!

That cartoon map looks like fun! :D

Looks cool, method made this right?

Reminds me of yan_test.

Style and textures looks nice :)

Needs blood, gore and dark theme maps. It's not super mario with blue sky or NY streets!! Dont ruin even more the game with senseless themes!! cmon, urban ?! wtf!!!!!!

now look again at these screenshots listening to this :

It's-a-me, Sargio !

I did that and it reminded me of Super Quario.

imagine the quad carrier with this :

Screenshot reminds me of that RA3 map.

fascinating
what's the first map?

Hopefully method has listened to the feedback and has made sure every room has at least three exits with at least one of them being large, otherwise CA tends to become a game of "one team in one room, throwing grenades into room 2". From the preview screenshot it looks like the map is missing any open areas, which makes for a quite boring RL only play but it's difficult to say before you see the entire map.

At least it looks like the map has some potential.

at least three exits

This should be a rule for all game modes really.

6 disappointments in 6 weeks

6 reasons to stop playing ql in 6 weeks

ztn -> oh noes old map!
quarantine -> oh noes new map!

cry me a river whinereality...

lol we need pure quality DUEL maps... not shits CA,TDM,FFA,DUEL and everything.

[mandatory LOOOLL] how abuot we test it for more than one single day?

Maybe it is good for duel and (2on2) tdm and maybe 4on4 ca.
ffa is shit everywere so it doesn't really count :D

No shit...

" 6 disappointments in 6 weeks "


Agreed....What the fuck are they thinking.....whats new about bringinb back OLD maps and calling them NEW?

EPIC FAIL SINCE DAY ONE. This is not a remake of Quake 3...all this is " TEAM ARENA " the addon that FAILD so fucking hard in 2001.

so you've seen this map before? (outside of ut)

Don't see how people can think Siberia is a disappointment. It's a decent enough map. Nor how this can be a disappointment (since no one has played it).

Siberia is quite frankly terrible gameplay-wise

real new maps created by method are ALL nice ihmo.
siberia-ca1 -ca2-ctf7-t7.
So...ihmo this map will be good ..the problem is just that 1 talented mapper isnt enough so they have to give us fucking old maps.
ffs id take killat0n and lukin!

its not on servers yet?

It's next weeks map

why talk about it now then :/

when will it be up?

tuesday usually

Nice Method, but you might want to chill a bit with the brick-love-affair, if you don't watch out, the whole town will know!

I wouldnt blame the mapper for a developer that hires just 1 guy to make many maps. We all have some bias, hes onto bricks ;) (in a nutshell: id needs a pool of mappers)

Agreed, but QL is only an id experiment. I doubt they're willing to put all the resources they can into. Afterall, probably the biggest thing on id's plate is working on the idtech5. Just pointing that out that realistically id probably doesn't have a lot on the line with QL (unlike Rage).

CA is horrible

Am I the only one who is amazed how good can 10 year old game look?

ofc not my dear~

If you do something well, it will always look good IMO as it carves out its own style.

Truth.

1on1... rofl

"This architecturally and artistically distinct arena is medium sized and most suitable for 2-10 players in Clan Arena, Team Deathmatch, Duel, and Free for All."

DUEL!!??!! DUEL FFS!???

Go read "The complete idiot's guide to a career in Quake mapping", it my help you.

PS: Get rid of cell light cones like the ones in CA1, kills fps and they arent that preety. (see CHAPTER 12)

If it's not obvious yet, that list is always the modes that the map can be played in, not what modes the map is good for.

wtf... this is clearly not a map for dueling :DDDDDDDDDDDDdddddd

Look for a developer blog later in the week with a more detailed progress update on Mac/Linux, private servers, competition features, leaderboards, and other changes that are all on the horizon.

that on the other hand sounds nice

Like the map, good for CA, didnt get backraped a lot on it and the rooms are made for fighting, the improved map11 jumppad area is not so bad either.

The map does look weird with picmip 5 though, or I dunno, something feels weird at least, maybe Im not adjusted to adsl yet...

Doubt the map is playable in other modes than CA though, might have some potential as a TDM map if theres no rail.

absolutely agree, the map offers nice fights
do you mean the distant orange fog thing with picmip? that annoys me a bit

Can't be any worse than what we've got at the moment.

I say just chuck ca2/3 in and remove dm20.

ye agreed, dm20 is beyond terrible.

this map seems really good for both tdm and duel :DD u should try duel on it with teleporters and different items placement its pure fun :D

what changes did they make on t7? was the rocket thing fixed? (http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09224/shot0131239.jpg)
i only noticed that thelights were even more annyoing than before with high picmip
is there any change for a nomip cmd that would also include these lights and the fogs? or is that impossible cause its part of the map?

anyone know the hud command to get that crosshair but in red?
http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09224/shot0131239.jpg

Great map, both visually and gameply wise.
So damn sick of idiots moaning on every opportunity.

This after saying that Open Arena "Looks like shit tbh". Sit down.

didn't it look like i said? this map on the other hand looks pretty nice.

No.

yeah great map for CA, donnu about other modes.