Thats awesome but wheres QW and CPM? :D and maybe cq3?

my pokemans will slap u in wsw k. :D

wat

So without any sort of purse information or estimation, this is really a well organized online gaming league?

maybe he is still working on the finer details

How about doing that before you do a press release... like any normal well managed organisation.

No this is just another cxg waiting to happen hehe

as far as i remember even ESWC/WCG etc release information in dribs and drabs

Well at least with ESWC we know they actually have money :-)

only as long as they have a sponsor to supply it :P

Oh well , i will be releasing my 12 stop world tour featuring qw tommorow, any sponsors interested?

you really think they would have released a press release if this was just an idea? no sane person would do that!

Erm its e-sports.. yes i do :P

lol true true

When am i finally getting my admin status around here btw :P 4 years of loyal visits and an ex popularity rating of 85 % should do it tbh ;-)

start contributing news :x

why is aaron a vip?!?!?

coz someone made him vip at a guess lol

real question is, why arent i?! :(

ive contributed plenty of demos of myself in the past :P

sane? he released a magazine containing content available on the net that didnt make it to its 3rd edition

he released a magazine containing content available on the net

Just like many, many other magazines do. Only the most popular ones have world-exclusive scoops, really...

let me rephrase that:
he released a magazine containing 3 month old content available on the net (the magazine was quarterly iirc).

And there's a difference a big difference in that this magazine was related to gaming, a large part of which now takes place online so the potential audience would be swayed to read free content online (or for in depth tactics for csnerds pay the cheaper fee to become an SK member for their premium articles).

A fisherman is more likely to buy a magazine regarding fishing because its not a predominant activity online (more of an on sea activity). They also can't access said articles online while doing their boring activity so they can read a magazine before being eaten by sharks.

And I don't know how much of the was content related to news from tournaments and clan changes but thats all old by the time it hits print; theres a reason news papers are daily (even though most of it is still yesterday's news when i pick it up)

Pro Gam3r Magazine was something I did not own. I was only an employee. I was the associate editor and art director. It wasn't mine. You guys don't call ESR Nicky's do you? It is kind of the same thing on that. The AGP Tour is owned by Vida LLC. As I am president, there are others working for it as well including partners.

Hopefully that clears that for you Dird ;)

Nicky is ESR

awww <3

tell us details plx!1

will the gamers have to play all 4 games or no?

may i ask who the other people are behind this project?

Beginning in 2009, the AGP Tour™ will be hosting four international tournaments, called the AGP Majors.

Sounds like a LAN series to me.

Let's hope this is not as successful as the Progam3r magazine.

Q4!!! FUCK YEAH! (no irony here)

quake and warsow is always good (-:
but ut3 could be replaced^^

give q4ctf

that's like asking for a mentally challenged student at harvard

but, but... I like it even if it is retarded :(.

sweet! gogo wsw!

sweet!! gogo warsow!

you can say that again

Sweet, but I don't think that picking up four games at once is a very good idea. You won't force most of the (pro) players to play a game which they don't like at all, and a game which is literally dead.

One game with (for instance) different maps for each of the major events would be better imo.

EDIT: Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought that those games are somehow linked to each other. So the question is: do you have to play all four games or will there be four different tournaments (with four different games) at one stop (event)?

maybe they are trying to cater for different communities not just one :P

The player has to play all 4 games. At least that's what we've been told.

Are you sure? the news of Carmac in SK-gaming is quite confusing, when I read the press release, nothing like that is written. Because I don't really think that many players will focus 4 games in 1 year, the practice time isn't sufficient to give results and I also don't see these players "put away" events like ESWC to practice games they haven't played before :F

You don't HAVE TO play all games. No one is forcing you. But you need enough ranking points from somewhere to compete with the best.

so a guy with lots of ranking points in ut3 will get to compete with the top players in q3?

Up until this point it sounded really good - thought it was going to become more streamlined like tennis or golf whereby there are majors and rankings.

These games NEED to be kept seperate - eSports is an umbrella term - just like sports is a category and then within each there are events.

Suppose we just have to wait and see.....Could be interesting, could be a disaster but at least some are trying.

thanks, it is clear to me now :)
Q4 YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

#44"Are you sure?" No, not really. I wasn't paying too much of attention when the person who talked to them was updating us. I got that impression, but what Carmac replied sounds more on the spot.

k



NEXT.

Maybe 4x3 months for each game and them major final when players who gained the most points in stops, have to play all games

other way would be 4 separated events, 2 stops + 1 final

sounds too good to be true tbh

wow, Quake - UT - Warsow.. most unexpected! let's see where this leads to..
i hope it succeeds or else it might be the last push of the DM scene on a big scale

best of luck to AGP staff :)

[+]

u still playin ut for fnatic?

WSW and UT3 is just giving away free money, the competition level isn't even close to that of Q3 and Q4. Where is QW? :C

The plan is to raise that level through this competition =p. Anyway it's high enough imo, just not diverse/broad enough (speaking about wsw here, I have no idea on UT3).

it isn't

It probably will be. Im sure the PK and CPMA guys wont have huge problems changing into WSW for example :)

true. Will be weird seeing players against each other, one using cg_oldmovement 1 the other not.

everyone should be using cg_oldmovement... in fact... warsow is just so nubbified by things like this its horrible

You mean those two remaining Q4 Players battle it out pretty heavy, eh?

i hope its true!

something is missing: http://nquake.com/ classic fps

hope this turns out good
could be really great

Who are the sponsors?

Angel Munoz

lol

xerp

You wanna get [+], right?

Ye well, he deserved it!

hey why not u know

c'mon, people, don't let angel be plussed more than xerp!

i expect Games Media or whoever that company was that CPL said were handling the cash prizes for their last tournament to be involved here

generation X or something like that

x factor?

No.

would like to see qw and cpma too
but warsow is nice

nice concept! Hope they have the money / people to back it up and actually complete the whole tour.

There is a God, and his name is Streetrunner.

Duel is back in action, take that team based ultra-realistic shooters.

i was first :(

:D

contribute/news :P

i don't think that my english is good enough :P

no worries i can edit just drop me an iMsg if you ever want to do one :)

warsow =O

warsow \o/

lulmalaoooooo

so many games, even you could be good at one!

lol ur mum

Too little too late if you ask me, but we'll see next year. I do hope I'm proven wrong, though, and this does turn out to be a big hit!

the competition in UT3 was quite high before the play.com tournament, now it's a bit dead cuz of lack of offline events, with this it will awake the 1v1 scene again for sure :) I think it's awesome cuz it's all about 1v1 hardcore fps, which is great to watch and follow, looking forward more details!

remove Q4 ;]

remove ut3

remove yourself

you can kindly stfu

UT hase big scen so they should have tournament, Q4 for sure not

>>Quake 4
wat?

Quake4 is what.

no, it's twat

they still play deck?
wat!

dont tell me you dont like twats!

don't start the whine already, the list seems awesome, you people are never happy.

welcome to ESReality.

We will stop whining when you get rid of deck-16... or hell freezes.

or ut3 and q4

Man, guys like you could really use some prozac.

The UT and q4 players are not continuously bugging you on your old and slow game that q3 is, so let them enjoy the game they like as they are doing with you.

As Nelson would say "you like quake 4, haha"

No, Nelson is smart.

Nelson would know that i like quiet all the FFPS and that I'm not kidwhining on something you could resume as "I have a red car, i dont like yours/yours suck because its blue".

whats wrong with deck? and what computer have u played ut3? I never had a crash on deck, ever. So please if you played the game 3 times with a shitty computer don't talk about what you actually don't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy

Fucking spot on. The DM 1v1 community in general is too small to be spitting at each other..

gogo warsow :-).

hope it won't fail.

I wonder if the ut3 guys stand a chance after serious q3/warsow prac. And i wonder if the q3 guys can beat us in ut3 =)

I heard that Quake 'pros' didn't perform well in UT3.

havent seen a single quake pro play ut, who are you talking about?:d

chip

your definition of quake pro is interesting :d

aha

Never seen chip play q3 in any event.

wcg 02 :)

:D

All the same he's hardly what you'd call a Q3 pro being shit at UT3 :D

afaik a few Swedish 'Quake pros' tried it : )

but i haven't seen any swedish quake pros perform bad in ut tournaments. :) (why they didn't play in tournaments is another story)

Didn't fat play UT for a while`?

yep but i wouldn't call him unsucessful

he beat zulg in eswc in paris (ut2k3) if i recall correctly.

what category does winz go into?

ut -> quake?

quake -> ut -> quake rather

same goes the other way, UT players are terrible at Quake (Usually)

i know :)

I don't really know how good I am at warsow or q3, I'd love to compete in this tournament to find that out =)

about ut3, the assholes on CB put me in division 4 in the UT3 opencup wtf :)

"Thats awesome but wheres QW and CPM? :D and maybe cq3?"

You know why .... :) we play quake 3 not cq3 or cpm creations :P but QW is QW - i like it

blablabla

almost two years on this page and you still can't use the reply button. :D

and: cq3 is supposed to be the evolution of vanilla quake 3. (ppl told me that. i don't have a clue about anything myself. :<)

Nice list:)

This is sad.

We get this great announcement thats going to try and save DM and 75% of the posts are negative, bitching and moaning.

You guys are FAGGOTS.

:|

Four 1vs1 games aren't going to save DM, especially since it's the same shit with slight twists. When they are linked together in a points system it gets even messier as far as I can see.

Most people don't feel like investing time/money into a 1vs1 only game which they will most likely get owned at let alone four 1vs1 games.

Team based DM games (TDM! and CTF) will save DM gaming and also boost 1vs1 numbers at the same time. Most players of DM games usually play some form of TDM/CTF (and don't play 1vs1 at all) and would probably be much more inclined to enter tournaments/go to LANs based around TDM/CTF and at the same time enter the 1vs1 tournament for fun.

This is good and everything but it isn't going to save DM games, well maybe it will save pro DMers from having to get a job, and what we will see is the same "17" players + a few local community players of the respective games.

Fair enough, but this is 100x better then us sitting around on our asses playing online leagues for mouse pads.

hey i need a new qck+ so if you have a spare by all means send me it! :D

Actually I quite like the idea of the four games being linked up in points. It's like the Quadcup at Qcon but with two new games. If they're as similar as you say then the transfer shouldn't be too difficult

your also complaining ;)

I wasn't complaining up until I saw that people who play in completely different games will be put up against each other. The concept and idea of a 1v1 duel tournament with major events is great but as I said earlier - the term "eSports" (or whatever you refer to it as) is an umbrella term just like the term "sports".

--> To me, this is like saying to Tiger Woods, you are great at Golf but didn't make the cut because you didn't compete in tennis and sucked at bowling. I was hoping for a more streamlined approach like tennis and golf where there are "major" events (but people get to play within their own event - golf / tennis, Quake 3 / Warsow)

Actually the scenario seems very similar to tennis, where you have different surfaces and not all players are good at all surfaces. The player who owns 2 surfaces (Federer) is considered better than the player who owns 1 surface (Nadal), and I see it very fair. Maybe you consider that duelling deathmatch games are totally different from each other, but I see much more coincidences than differences myself.

I'd say this is more like Tennis + Badminton + Squash + Volleyball or something :o

ya sounds like a farer comparison.. these are different games not just different maps

i'd say you're fucking retarded and jal's analogy was much more accurate. STFU you ugly never-been brit!

Good analogy - much more on board now :) Have to say that I did enjoy coverage of the QuadDamage at QuakeCon which would be somewhat similar...

Just have to wait and see, but also want more details!

I agree, although I know not many will. 1v1 adopts the same winning mindset on every map (in that you have to anticipate your opponent, outmaneuver, outsmart, hit crucial shots, etc.). And since all four games have similar weapon sets, people need only essentially learn movement, maps, and the feel/pace of the game.

Still, it is quite a lot to take in for the very first year, and I can't see more than maybe a small handful of people learning all four games in preparation for this. I'd rather AGP be quarterly and feature all four games at once with constant online qualifiers for all four throughout 2009, and then revamp the format according to how things go in preparation for 2010.

I never thought I'd see the day where I'd [+] Mojo.

I mean, I know I am a bit skeptical about it myself, but it definitely doesn't warrant spitting on this spark of hope that Jarod has offered the community. If AGP does go belly-up, I'd rather it go to shit because the concept just didn't work out, than have it go to shit because ESR-tards alienated Streetrunner from trying to pursue his visions of bringing an awesome gametype from the ashes and keeping everyone happy by featuring multiple duel games for competition. With that said, GL Streetrunner. Can't make any promises, but I'll try to attend your events, especially the ones for Q4.

announcement without prizemoney or anything is worthless

its going to build so much hype that people are going to be let down, atleast, that is my prediction

Deathmatch rules.

That's so true. In my humble opinion 1on1 deathmatch is the best to spectate.
AGP should stick to this concept of switching games until a very fine one comes out again, don't see osp returning. Maybe QLive has some potential, got your hands on it yet?

I would like to watch toxic, cooller, cypher and rapha on q3dm7 FFA. Just like a show match. Would be fun!

Im not a QW player, but it has a pretty active scene with insane skill. If you add that UT3 has nothing in common with the other games my common sense tells me that you should: Remove UT3 and add QW.

Apparently the idea is to unite the different DM FPS communities, not to just hoard all Quake players.

Not that I like UT.

Well then the best approach would probably be Q3 + UT2k4 + wsw + QW rather than Q4, Q3, UT3, WSW.

Unless UT3 > UT2k4 in the community department (But I was under the impression that it failed on most accounts)

UT2004 duel was all shock rifle, then UT3 came out and they realized that that's not the worst it could be.

That it has an active scene with "insane skill" doesn't matter as those players wouldn't take part anyway.

include PK instead of Q4. More fun to spec. And maybe this'll make stelam and zyz come back.

rofl pk

PK was an amazing spectator game tbh, beats the shit out of most q4 games

WAS
and tbh there's 0 of the 17 people left who used to play this game

PLUS everything beats the shit out of ANY q4 match

Q4 is pretty good for spectating to me, but I hate playing it.

PK is better for spectating and better for playing except for general bugginess.

Q4 is easier for level design :)

man i loved pk :(. cant believe no one wanted to play it other than its horrible netcode and some bugs :(. i mean hell. quake 4 has both and shit gameplay too

well, the whole world tour was great. stelam vs. zyz vs. fat vs. voo vs. booms vs. stermy vs. lexer. sry, but this was just plain fun watching.

just because of how small the 1v1 scene is (even in all these games put together) theres no way something like this will work unless you have very large prizes. but good luck nonetheless, oh and why do you have quake 4 in that list, put cpm or qw there instead :o

with that said though im pretty excited to see how this turns out =D

how this game list...

qw, q2, q3, q4?

Too good for the AGP Tour.

u have quakeworld and some other game copied across 3 engines. u sure its better?

yes

thats like doing a team event with the same setup except the gamelist as: dod1.3 cs1.6 cscz css

No that's like having a successful Quad Damage tournament at Quakecon. Jesus.

I would have picked QW, CPM, CQ3 and Q4

I dont think it's a good idea to have 4 FPS, but still it's great to see a new tournament.

indeed, 125 seems better

333

feeling nostalgic?

76.923076923076923076923076923077

1000/13

Why

Oh because the rates

333 is 1k/3
125 is 1k/8

So you followed a
hz = 1k / (5n+3) pattern.

more like copied that out of my qw config and i have no idea where it came from :P

43.478260869565217391304347826087

see if you can continue the pattern! We'll be in Halo 3 territory in no time! :DD

haha =D

35.714285714285714285714285714286

Halo's next :)

lol gl with that :P

30.30303030303030303030303030303

I'm done, fuck that Halo shit. Let the console players continue... I'm sure GoldenEye N64 never got 30fps in multiplayer.

i was all about perfect dark :P

55.555555555555555555555555555556

WHOA THAT'S FREAKING GREAT!

oh.. Q4...nevermind...

Best of luck to Streetrunner and his team...I'd love to see it take off, and I have much more faith in him pulling off good events, even if the prizes aren't WTHUGE for a while, than I did in Munoz :P

cmon qw is classic, fun, requires mucho skill...

what else do you want

nice inniciative.

imagine i'm a NVIDIA pr guy

Organiser x : so hi there, we are holding a world tour featuring an fps game, are you interested

pr guy: yes very, which games will be played

Organiser x : well we were thinking about quakeworld amongst others..

pr guy : quakeworld , isnt that that old game most people play in butt-ugly mode and which runs at a gazzilion frames per second on a 286?

Organiser x : well... yeah kinda

pr guy: i think we'll pass thanks

Then fuck them

Why? Do they owe you a favor? You could of course replace them and sponsor this with your own money.

Oh yeah I forgot the whole point of gaming was money, silly me for thinking it was about PLAYING THE GAME.

I don't see why anyone other than the gamers would care about the part not involving money. What is your reason that nvidia, as a corporation, should care about people that are not even customers of theirs, or at least haven't been since the 6800ultra?
I was being sincere btw, there's no reason whatsoever that any hardware company should sponsor a QuakeWorld tournament. Nor much any Quake tournament tbh.
If the players want to play for no prize money that's fine too, after all, it's all about the game, right?

btw, I'm actually working on organizing and funding a Q4 NA tourney myself, just waiting on one of the other investors to return from overseas where he's serving in the military before making any announcements. So i don't want you to think I'm being facetious, just really, if you want a tourney for a game that old, you are gonna have to do it yourself.

I never said they should care or invest in QW, if they don't want to invest then fuck them, nVIDIA are not a requirement.

Basically what I was getting at was, if nVIDIA don't want to invest because of QW then fuck them who cares find someone else, if you can't fuck it, forget about the money (Or do pay2play) and just play for competitions sake.

If you get loads of people to play and compete without any money on the line then you're onto something.

Football players don't buy or need half the shit advertised surrounding their sports. We need alternative sponsors.

for spectating you can use ftequake with custom textures/models/particles etc. and it looks fantastic actually. the game only looks ugly when your serious about actually playing it

QW using a max gfx config looks better than q3/wsw

but not better than q3 using a max gfx cfg, which actually looks better than doom3.

LOL!

but not better than doom3 using a max gfx cfg, which actually looks better than Quake4.

but not better than q4 using a max gfx cfg, which actually looks better than Ut3

but not better than Ut3 using a max gfx cfg, which actually looks better than crysis.


ect...

nop,

Q4 looks better than warsow which looks better than q3 which look a lil better then QW.

It's naive to think that this sort of structure would be liked by anyone... ever. Tournaments like this attempt to appease the idea that activity will bring people to these aging and dying games. It's just not going to happen. The problem hasn't been tournaments, it's the games.

By "structure" do you mean the 4 games with masters per year? Or the point system? Or what?

And what do you mean "the problem hasn't been tournaments, it's the games"? Is the solution to "aging games" to use Guitar Hero and WoW?

It seems like the problem in light of most tournament organizers is indeed the games - that the games they choose are garbage in one or both of: a) skill-level required/skill cap, and b) spectatability.

So I don't really understand your point. Do you want more tournaments with COD4?

By "structure" do you mean the 4 games with masters per year? Or the point system? Or what?

The point system based on participation in all 4 games. Did you have to ask? What other part of the structure could be rejected by players?

And what do you mean "the problem hasn't been tournaments, it's the games"? Is the solution to "aging games" to use Guitar Hero and WoW?

Are you surprised? Far be it for tournament organizers to pick games that have... you know... a following.

It seems like the problem in light of most tournament organizers is indeed the games - that the games they choose are garbage in one or both of: a) skill-level required/skill cap, and b) spectatability.

And still enjoy more success than the dying genre that is fast-paced shooters.

So I don't really understand your point. Do you want more tournaments with COD4?

No, I don't care for tournaments either way - I play games for fun. However, if you had a TV station that covered sports games, you wouldn't pick a game like darts over a game like football. It's just dumb. Sure, darts has it's own little niche, but when you're looking to get a good number of both players and spectators, why would you pick the inferior product?

Well, I don't agree that nobody will like the structure. I could be the only one, but personally I think it would be really fun from a spectator standpoint to watch your favorite players playing different games.

How many people do you think watch Guitar Hero more than a couple times? The game obviously has plenty of popularity, but it's way too simple to have any longevity for spectators unless they're absolutely obsessed with Guitar Hero. With a DM FPS, many players take interest even if they don't play the particular game or play DM games at all. I believe a lot more than just PK players watched PK in 2005.

If you honestly don't care for tournaments, why do you bother visiting this site? You realize this is an Esports site, which implies, you know....competition......right? You're entitled to your opinion of course, just seems odd to me.

Well, I don't agree that nobody will like the structure. I could be the only one, but personally I think it would be really fun from a spectator standpoint to watch your favorite players playing different games.

Right, let's put Shaq into a hockey game, Tiger Woods into a football game, and Gary Kasparov into a boxing ring. The games are VASTLY different, and the idea is completely silly.

How many people do you think watch Guitar Hero more than a couple times? The game obviously has plenty of popularity, but it's way too simple to have any longevity for spectators unless they're absolutely obsessed with Guitar Hero.

Replace the words "Guitar Hero" with "Quake", and the statement remains equally true. Guitar Hero isn't the only rhythm game, you know. Games like Beatmania IIDX (the quake of rhythm games) have been around for many years, and yet only satisfy a niche following. Even still, Guitar Hero is not a main event seller, games like Halo or CS are.

If you honestly don't care for tournaments, why do you bother visiting this site? You realize this is an Esports site, which implies, you know....competition......right? You're entitled to your opinion of course, just seems odd to me.

Well, for one,

ESReality.com is a community driven website targeted at online and multiplayer computer gamers, although the subject matter can and often does diverge from computers and gaming.

... and the idea that gaming is only about tournaments is exactly why professional gaming fails. I play for fun, not for a job. If I wanted a job like that, I'd go flip burgers and make the same wages that "professional" gamers do.

Right, let's put Shaq into a hockey game, Tiger Woods into a football game, and Gary Kasparov into a boxing ring. The games are VASTLY different, and the idea is completely silly.

If you said put LaDanian Tomlinson on a rugby team, LeBron James on a Baseball team, Shaq in the WWE (lol), or Roger Federer in a clay (lol) doubles tourney, you might have had a point. Their respective skills would transfer much more congruently to those "different" sports than the examples you gave. Much like a DM FPS player taking on a different DM FPS. You have a keyboard and a mouse, but with a different set of rules (governance over a player's action, such as weapons, physics, timing, and maps) for the game. Hardly like taking a chess player and putting him in the ring.

You could have easily gone for the most similar mainstream option, poker. Lots of the pro poker players don't play Hold'em alone, but also dabble (or kick serious ass) in Omaha, Stud, or Draw. And if you look at the history of top Chess players, they typically have a learning curve, but their underlying talents still are highly effective at other games that are related, but are goverend by different rules. In fact, Bobby Fischer was the originator of many board game rulesets which are still used today, akin to a czm making an FPS on his own (Ultrono anyone? :P).

Also, auto racing would have been a decent selection, but those are much more specialized than the Poker variants.

Their respective skills would transfer much more congruently to those "different" sports than the examples you gave.

Also, auto racing would have been a decent selection, but those are much more specialized than the Poker variants.

Should an Indy driver have to compete in Nascar? Should a WTCC driver have to compete in drag racing? Should a Nascar driver have to do touge runs? While I was giving extreme examples, I'm merely pointing out that it doesn't matter how close they may look on the surface, they are completely different.

I can't tell if you disagree, or if you simply disagree with my comparisons, so I'll leave it at that.

Should an Indy driver have to compete in Nascar? Should a WTCC driver have to compete in drag racing? Should a Nascar driver have to do touge runs? While I was giving extreme examples, I'm merely pointing out that it doesn't matter how close they may look on the surface, they are completely different.

Well, once you get to racing, they start to diverge greatly in terms of actual activity, even though the input devices are extraordinarily similar. Nascar's bottom of the barrel, so I'll ignore that. Rally stages don't involve other racers, and the variety of surfaces aren't like any other racing (except for certain tarmac stages). F1 and Indy exert extreme physical forces on the drivers, and demand utter precision with the other cars on the track and shortness of the tracks relative to average speeds. Drag racing rests more heavily (percentage-wise) on the team, but is still quite demanding of the drivers, as simple as it is. I'd say racing relates more in the way that genres of games relate; you typically use a keyboard, and mouse, your brain has to be sharp, your reflexes good, but the similarities diverge greatly after you get past the superficial similarities (basically input type and machinery).

I only took issue with your comparison, I didn't go either way on anything else. I didn't want to confuse you.

Shaq in hockey, etc etc is a bit ridiculous dude. Moving from UT3 to Q3 would be much closer than moving from pool to snooker than from basketball to hockey.

I think you missed my point about GH vs Quake in spectatability. Quake has depth and action. Guitar Hero has repetition and little depth. It's got music, too. But as a quality spectating experience, I don't think GH could come close to Quake. From a business standpoint, maybe it is a better choice than Quake, at least in the short-term. Maybe a bunch of people who play GH will say "wow cool! They play for money!" and would hit the website once or twice. That generates some real revenue when you have millions of people that do it. But it's not a *quality spectator sport* by a measure of high standards.

Fair enough if you're just on ESR for non-competition topics, but FYI I think you could probably find a much better community for that. Currently, 13 of the 14 posts on the front page are competition-oriented. Maybe you like to dig a little bit for your topics :)

This is more a quake3 based community site which has "e-sports news" on the front page than a e-sports news site such as gotfrag.

Moving from UT3 to Q3 would be much closer than moving from pool to snooker than from basketball to hockey.

Asking a Q3 player to play UT3/Warsow is just as unnatural as any of the above comparisons.

I think you missed my point about GH vs Quake in spectatability. Quake has depth and action. Guitar Hero has repetition and little depth. It's got music, too. But as a quality spectating experience, I don't think GH could come close to Quake.

Again, though, Guitar Hero is not a main event seller. It's a side game that still enjoys a large playerbase and spectator base. Look at how Halo and CS do. CS, especially, has wonderful spectator support and a huge community.

Arguing over depth is silly, as it's obvious that these games lack depth. The problem is that depth does not sell. It doesn't sell games, it doesn't sell events, and it doesn't sell spectators. Even Quakecon is about CS, file sharing, and vendor booths. Players of games like Quake need to accept their role as a niche group, and forget about making it big like other games.

Asking a Q3 player to play UT3/Warsow is just as unnatural as any of the above comparisons.

Not even close. You can draw parallels, but you're really reaching if you're trying to convince any rational being that this is true. Even if you specialize in a game, say Quake 3, the basic skills are the same in any FPS; the genre is made of few ingredients, just mixed a bit differently and reskinned for freshness. Fatal1ty is the prime example of this, as he won multiple tournaments in multiple games in a fairly short timespan. Destrukt converted from UT to Q3, and while he wasn't a top player out of the gates, he didn't play like some person who played Q3 for a week (I found that out firsthand). Neither he nor Fatal1ty looked unnatural at any time. And those are just 2 that I personally witnessed - I'm sure throughout other FPSes (perhaps CS to BF, CS to CoD4, BF to CoD4, etc.), the very same thing has happened, and throughout Europe as well. An example there, Vo0 seemed to play PK and Promode quite well. Didn't look like he had any deficiencies there.

Right, so why not include CS in the list? CoD? MOH? Slow paced, but require the same attributes, no? In fact, microsoft flight simulator requires many of the same attributes, so let's run it in there as well.

If you think the games are so alike, you either do not play them all, or lack a grasp of depth.

what the fuck? lol @ a quake/dm player wanting to play cs. Quake players would crush cs, if they could stand the pace past the 5 min mark.

Modern CTF players for sure. It plays more like CS now than CS did when I was interested in it.

Right, so why not include CS in the list? CoD? MOH? Slow paced, but require the same attributes, no? In fact, microsoft flight simulator requires many of the same attributes, so let's run it in there as well.

I guess once you realized you were wrong about FPS DM games you have to change to FPS tactical games. Good deal.

How about Wombat? He has played (at least) QW, Q3, CS, RTCW, and I think now CoD4, all at a very high level. There are others, but you'll pull some other scenario out of your ass to SHOW ME HOW WRONG I AM.

And anyone who plays flight simulator at the same level as the folks we've talked about uses highly specialized input devices (not my cup of tea), and the games are totally different. Maybe pick an arcade flying game and you'll be closer, but you're really beyond reaching at this point.

If you think the games are so alike, you either do not play them all, or lack a grasp of depth.

I just LOVE your argument style. You expose yourself as limited (in knowledge, reasoning ability, or both), then change the argument to suit yourself, or go after the person you're arguing with.

More anecdotally, a buddy of mine (FienD) was at either a Quakecon or CPL event, and they had a small UT tournament. He had never played it in his life, entered the tournament, and came in 2nd place (or maybe he won it, I dunno) over some people who played UT as their game. While I think he's autistic (in the near-savant way), he was a QW player who picked up a game and excelled.

I haven't played CoD4, but I watched a couple Quake players pull it out at our last LAN and they didn't seem uncomfortable at all. I did play CS but preferred Q3 (most of the LANs I went to were primarily CS after about 2000), and I've played every Quake game competitively (well, low-level CTF in Q2 and Q4, but still probably leagues beyond anything you've accomplished), and BF2 casually. I have a fan-fucking-tastic grasp of depth across multiple genres of games, and I also play strategy games (TBS and RTS), along with various console games. I don't want to type up a fucking resume, but gaming is one of my hobbies, and considering you're on a gaming site, that should be a given. I also understand the difference between technical and mental depth, how teams play a role in depth, and what it is like to compete at a high level (yeah, I was never top 10 in the country much less the world, but I have played online and LAN tournaments for a majority of the life of QW and Q3 across 1v1, TDM AND CTF). I have to turn it around at this point and ask: How in the fuck have I been to LANs with just about everyone in Texas worth a shit at Q3 (or CS really), which is quite a few, and never run across you? How has no one in Texas ever heard of you (aside from some argumentative guy on ESR)? While this isn't the Sweden of Quake in NA, there has been quite a talent pool here in Q3 (Austin and Dallas, predominantly) and CS (CK3 WHAT??? PAG WHO??? RS WHERE???) over the years. What have YOU done at a high level, gaming-wise, that gives you an experience to back up what you've been talking about? How much of the depth of the Quake games, UT games, etc. have you explored?

I guess once you realized you were wrong about FPS DM games you have to change to FPS tactical games. Good deal.

Actually, I was humoring you to let you back yourself into a corner.

How about Wombat? He has played (at least) QW, Q3, CS, RTCW, and I think now CoD4, all at a very high level. There are others, but you'll pull some other scenario out of your ass to SHOW ME HOW WRONG I AM.

How does this have anything to do with anything? So what if someone can play many games, the problem is ranking someone based on entirely different systems. You don't rank someone's worth by taking a few random attributes from different areas and calling it a day.

I just LOVE your argument style. You expose yourself as limited (in knowledge, reasoning ability, or both), then change the argument to suit yourself, or go after the person you're arguing with.

Your lack of knowledge is clear, and your argument style is silly at best. You attempt to make up for the gaps in your experience with unrelated arguments and straw man attacks. As I said above, I was letting you corner yourself. You attempted a counter-argument, saw that you had nothing to support it, and attacked my argument style instead.

More anecdotally, a buddy of mine (FienD) was at either a Quakecon or CPL event, and they had a small UT tournament. He had never played it in his life, entered the tournament, and came in 2nd place (or maybe he won it, I dunno) over some people who played UT as their game. While I think he's autistic (in the near-savant way), he was a QW player who picked up a game and excelled.

Again, so what? I won a UT2k4 tournament LAN my first time playing, but you don't see me playing Painkiller. You're basically trying to argue that things that are somewhat related in any way should be used in a vague ranking system. It's dumb, at best.

I don't want to type up a fucking resume, but gaming is one of my hobbies, and considering you're on a gaming site, that should be a given.

You're actually trying to defend yourself as some kind of gaming authority? This is not the kind of thing you brag about, it's the kind of thing you'd try to hide. You sound like a fanboy console gamer. Don't quit your day job.

How in the fuck have I been to LANs with just about everyone in Texas worth a shit at Q3 (or CS really), which is quite a few, and never run across you?

I work for LAN centers, and have been responsible for hosting tons of BF1942/BF2, CS, WoW, Halo, AA, and general LANs. I even took part in the world record for the Typhoon Rising release. The thing is, I hate online play. All my experience IS on LAN, so I can't deal with the lag. It's mainly why the xerp/cq3 argument seemed most silly to me - it seemed like everyone was just now catching up because they don't play enough LAN. You don't have to play online with a bunch of idiots to realize the depth of a game, but I'm sure that escapes you.

I even took part in the world record for the Typhoon Rising release.

I'm sorry, but anyone mentioning a release event for a game called "Typhoon Rising" as some sort of accomplishment sounds closer to a "console game fanboy" than Stasis. I don't care if it's a console game or not.

Actually, we held an overnight LAN for it which brought in more than 20 players. We helped to secure the world record for most players in a server. Not exactly sure how that record works with games like WoW clearly winning, but there you go. =P

Pro.

Your lack of knowledge is clear, and your argument style is silly at best. You attempt to make up for the gaps in your experience with unrelated arguments and straw man attacks. As I said above, I was letting you corner yourself. You attempted a counter-argument, saw that you had nothing to support it, and attacked my argument style instead.

Yes, giving examples of players who have very successfully played/trained for multiple games and participated in major tournaments is so unrelated, afteryou said "Asking a Q3 player to play UT3/Warsow is just as unnatural as any of the above comparisons [sports players playing wildly unrelated sports]" is completely unrelated. Every time I make a post in reply to you, it ends up getting twisted, or you change the course to suit your argument. I clearly called in to question very specific statements, backed up what I said with examples (in situations that are known to more than 20 people), and I called in to question your experience with high-level multiplayer gaming, and preemptively defended my own. Of course, you went after the resume statement, and not the content of what I said. Your initial argument was "It's naive to think that this sort of structure would be liked by anyone... ever" followed by a reply to a dissenting opinion with a highly inaccurate (which I pointed out with examples) example of sports stars playing other extremely different sports.

So...who is fighting with straw men? Have you noticed that this happens with nearly every post you make, and that I'm not the only one who calls your bullshit?

Yes, I'm a console fanboy who never has no knowledge of competitive gaming, hides my enjoyment of competitive gaming from friends and family, and have tried using gaming to make up for shortcomings in my career. You nailed me perfectly, you sly fox. How did you ever figure me out? I apparently didn't hide it very well on this website which has nothing to do with gaming whatsoever.

Perhaps I SHOULD quit my day job to work in LAN centers and become a gaming authority, such as yourself. Maybe there I can get on a server with all 20 people who ever gave 2 flying shits about some random game, claim a world record, and become an authority on competitive gaming. Then I could make arguments such as yours, as then my authority would then put me into the vaunted realm of Vedic, and my new thoughts would be light years beyond anything that I can come up with based on my current, well-documented lack of experience. After all, my experience is insufficient in every single way you've pointed out (I now understand an accusation without facts to back it up is still true! Thanks.). But, I don't work in a LAN center after all, so I should just stop and yield to your vast and deep experience playing against random people who come play games with you out at the LAN center. Right? Let me know if I missed any of my shortcomings in gaming experience, so I can correct them before I try to get work at a LAN center.

Sure, I have worked for several LAN centers over the years, games have always been entertainment for my free time. That's been for nearly 20 years. Unlike yourself, I haven't just done it out of a lack of things to do, but out of a genuine curiosity for why others play games, and for the enjoyment of playing with close friends.

You have your GAMING RESUME with all your little details, and I'm sure that's a huge accomplishment to you. You truly think that you're some kind of authority because you "played a game this one time." I dread walking into places like Gamestop, as I know there's going to be some kid just like you in there, yelling at the employee about some random thing he heard on the internet. Your type is even worse on the internet because you can't get curbstomped, so you're free to spread misinformation and idiocy as much as you like.

You might want to look up "straw man" and it's legitimate use before actually throwing it around. Keep coming back and saying the same recycled shit that you always do, my replies will be the same. Meanwhile, I have a formal banquet to attend!

Unlike yourself, I haven't just done it out of a lack of things to do, but out of a genuine curiosity for why others play games, and for the enjoyment of playing with close friends.

Thanks, I didn't know that I had a lack of things to do, and that's why I played games. You are my counselor and I beg for your guidance through life. I mean, who am I to argue with your wealth of experience in the competitive gaming setting gaming world record scene.

You have your GAMING RESUME with all your little details, and I'm sure that's a huge accomplishment to you.

Again, thanks, as I didn't know it was a huge accomplishment. What would I ever do without you? I was really under the impression that this was just a minor comment in a 2 reply old post, but I was clearly wrong and built everything I said around it. My argument is now completely invalid and null because I made a comment about a "gaming resume" and I will blow you beg for your saintly forgiveness.

You truly think that you're some kind of authority because you "played a game this one time.

Yes, I have been talking about games I played one time during the entire reply thread, and now you are 100% right. After all, I've never played games at a LAN center, much less worked in one, so despite the evidence to the contrary, I'm commenting on things I've never played. I was under the impression that we were talking about competitive gaming in general, specifically FPS DM 1v1 competitive gaming, but we were really discussing various games I've only played once. Without you, we'd be way, way off track by now.

I dread walking into places like Gamestop, as I know there's going to be some kid just like you in there, yelling at the employee about some random thing he heard on the internet.

Yep, I tend to talk about things I don't know about, as I have in this thread with all of the conjecture and none of the evidence. Again, your guidance is invaluable. I also frequent Gamestop and have lengthy periods of yelling at the employees about things. I am perpetually in a state of regurgitating what I've read on the internet to workers in retail stores, so you may as well start putting together a wooden cross..

Your type is even worse on the internet because you can't get curbstomped, so you're free to spread misinformation and idiocy as much as you like.

Again, I am glad you pointed out that my publicly verifiable real-world examples are misinformation, while your arguments are backed with opinion and conjecture, as you are an authority on the subject of gaming. My experience outside of a LAN center is clearly not enough for any argument I have to hold any weight, and I apologize for not working in a LAN center. And I'm also afraid of everyone so I do a 180 in person to avoid curbstompings. Yep. You got me.

You might want to look up "straw man" and it's legitimate use before actually throwing it around.

Sorry, I've worked in corporate environments where straw man is more frequently used to describe high-level planning documents and activities when doing long-term project, time, and money management. Even still, the correction is helpful, as I provided 3 examples of you going about using straw man argumentation very clearly, but I am still obviously wrong. I mean, when confronted with evidence, the best thing to do is admit that you have no clue what the fuck you're talking about either to ignore it, attack minutiae, or start a new argument.

Nothing good can come of my replies to you, as you are right, regardless of anything that anyone says. I could provide any number of examples, any amount of data, any amount of experts' opining, and your opinion would still reign as fact, as it is unverifiable yet unassailable, therefore it MUST be true! I'll agree to stop replying to you if you stop making posts with no verifiable basis in reality. I've tried to demonstrate your misinformation by using things you could have easily discovered on your own, and have yet to be successful in convincing you that you're not providing accurate information, regardless of the facts I've presented. My (rather middling) expertise in the area of discussion is also trumped because you played in a shitload of large tournaments, trained with pros, were active in the scene, and engaged in discussions with many folks running the big tournaments worked in a LAN center and set a world record in a well-respected game used in major competitions.

Meanwhile, I have a formal banquet to attend!

Here's where you (in my shoes) would talk about how going to banquets is for high school students, that you clearly are obsessed with banquets, and how attending banquets makes your knowledge of any other type of occasion completely irrelevant. Also, you'd dismiss anything else I ever said, because clearly if I go to banquets, I can't possibly know a fucking thing about anything else at all, ever.

Backed into a corner, now where do you go?

I recommend outside.

As much thought and insight as you've ever delivered. Sheer intelligence distilled, thx!

Michael Jordan played Baseball, Michael Schuhmacher is racing on motorbikes and also their is a sport called "Chess Boxing" :P

Right, but they were by choice. More power to them.

Chessboxing D=

mj sucked at baseball :P

Also, you could put Valentino Rossi in/on anything with an engine, and he'd be awesome to watch AND quite good. He is an exceptional talent though, much like Bo Jackson, who was able to perform in the NFL and MLB.

How many people do you think watch Guitar Hero more than a couple times? The game obviously has plenty of popularity, but it's way too simple to have any longevity for spectators unless they're absolutely obsessed with Guitar Hero.

Replace the words "Guitar Hero" with "Quake", and the statement remains equally true.

No, it doesn't. Faggot.

Yes it does, asshat.

go back to playing your ultra complex DM-like Simon Says then. I'm sure stuff like this has always been popular in TX. Since the 80s.

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/imag...79_4mg.jpg

fuckin rube.

Actually, I play Beatmania IIDX. Basically the Quake of rhythm games! It's somewhere in the realm of millions to billions of light-years ahead of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw-rEP2fTFY

yes an amped up simon says. Meanwhile quake/DM is ???

Amped up? So I suppose the piano is merely an amped up version of this, right? Get over yourself, you couldn't do the easiest songs in Beatmania. You should stick with what you know. In this case, it seems to be Simon Says.

but beatmania isn't what i addressed of what you originally said and not what the discussion is about.

Comment #226 @ 06:22 PDT, 23 May 2008 >>
(Link, Edit, Delete, Reply)
By US-California Cloud +| - Reply to #150

How many people do you think watch Guitar Hero more than a couple times? The game obviously has plenty of popularity, but it's way too simple to have any longevity for spectators unless they're absolutely obsessed with Guitar Hero.

Vedic response:
Replace the words "Guitar Hero" with "Quake", and the statement remains equally true.

No, it doesn't. Faggot.
[+]

<< Comment #231 @ 10:17 PDT, 23 May 2008 >>
(Link, iMsg, Reply)
By RSS Feed Vedic +++: - Reply to #226
Yes it does, asshat.
[+]

Rofl.


When it comes down to it though, beatmania IS an "amped up" version of Simon says (which has been around since the 80s...). They're both the same type of thing. With the pathetic guitar hero competitions or arguements though that really is nothing more than Simon Says.

And I figured you wouldn't be able to answer the question. Keep running around in circles. Quake/DM is an "amped up" version OF??... The point is there is nothing like DM and its not ever been seen before. Still awaiting your answer though. Quake is an old game and Guitar Hero is new? Maybe banging the popping heads of squirrels or whatever the hell they are at Chuck E. Cheeses is such a cutting edge thing for you, I mean you are american, but that's been around for decades now and hasn't interested me since about 5, and i'm sure this could go back further. Quake/DM in age is not even a teenager yet.

No consistency in your arguemnts, besides that your arguements are fucking stupid. And you compared the piano to Simon says/beatmania which are both different (creativity/artistry vs hand-eye coordination/memorization/rhythm). On top of this you are probably the same stupidfuck that gives beatmania all this credit, but would turn around and whine about "aim" in quake/DM like the rest of the nerds on this site. Get a clue, Rube.

It appears my post never went through yesterday. Lovely site.

When it comes down to it beatmania IS an "amped up" version of Simon says (which has been around since the 80s...). They're both the same type of thing. With the pathetic guitar hero competitions or arguements though that really is nothing more than Simon Says.

Actually, Guitar Hero is a dumbed down version of Beatmania, but who's counting, right? As for the simon says remark, what game isn't a pretty version of simon says? You follow static patterns. See a guy, shoot him, get ammo and weapons. It's just layers of patterns, and they're all the same.

My original point (which you seemed to miss) is that a player who watches Guitar Hero or Quake 3 is going to think the game is quite simple and move on. Quake offers nothing special in the eyes of someone who does not play the game. It's just another game with different weapon graphics and different models.

Quake/DM is an "amped up" version OF??... Quake is an old game and Guitar Hero is new?

Uhh... what? Is your argument now "quake is original so it must be more entertaining"? DM itselfThe point was, again, try to keep up, that someone who does not know the game will not give it much attention, just like just about any game right now. Guitar Hero just proves that proper marketing is better than gameplay. The game Guitar Hero is a ripoff of Guitar Freaks which didn't do so well. Repackaged, given some new songs, and with a flaming logo, it easily sells to the masses.

Quake/DM in age is not even a teenager yet.

Hate to burst your bubble, but DM has been around since DOOM.

No consistency in your arguemnts, besides that your arguements are fucking stupid. And you compared the piano to Simon says/beatmania which are both different (creativity/artistry vs hand-eye coordination/memorization/rhythm).

If you played ANY of them (I play the piano as well as Keyboardmania) you'd know how wrong you are. Rhythm games are much the same as playing an instrument. You hit the right things at the right time to play the right note. Unlike many rhythm games, Beatmania/Keyboardmania actually PLAY THE NOTES. Oh, what's that? Are you a total idiot? Playing a song on an instrument is just the same as playing a song in a rhythm game. It's always the same notes. So, if you're attempting to call all instrumental work just simon says, you're really stretching it.

On top of this you are probably the same stupidfuck that gives beatmania all this credit, but would whine about "aim" in quake/DM like the rest of the nerds on this site. Get a clue, Rube.

Hahaha, getting a little nerdraged, I see. You've got nothing. You're not a big deal.

Rhythm games are much the same as playing an instrument. You hit the right things at the right time to play the right note. Unlike many rhythm games, Beatmania/Keyboardmania actually PLAY THE NOTES. Oh, what's that? Are you a total idiot? Playing a song on an instrument is just the same as playing a song in a rhythm game. It's always the same notes. So, if you're attempting to call all instrumental work just simon says, you're really stretching it.

I pray to Jove, God, Allah, Buddah, Ganesh, and who the fuck ever else is listening that I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever have the misfortune of hearing you perform what you would call "instrumental work" if you even mariginally believe this. Ever. Just be glad you didn't use the word music in there. I might have finally taken the step of shotgun-shitting in your cheerios.

Still as blind as can be.

You must suck at playing instruments as much as you suck at games.

Aww, don't get jealous.

Seriously you have no right to compare o2jam/beatmania/guitar hero/or you name it and say it's like playing real musical instruments.

I'm not trying to say it's easier to play piano than beat the harder songs in such games. But the games are not musical in anyway. Nor similar to playing the closest music instrument, the piano. Some skill transfers to piano but if you have no real music background you're going to be as good as a complete beginner with just a head start in dexterity.

Think of it as a game where you happen to be pressing keys along with a song rather than pressing the keys and making the song with the help of the notes. (Even if that is what you're doing in o2jam where on hard songs you are playing nearly every sound in the song.)

The notes and instruments that each key plays changes constantly throughout a song and there is usually no relationship between each key and the pitch of notes. The sequences in the notechart you hit are PURELY DESIGNED TO LOOK COOL as well as be challenging and somewhat matched to the song is doing intensity and pattern wise. (if the song hasn't much going on you're not going to be blasting out your 1,000APM, if the song is currently repeating the same tune, you're not going to be pressing something totally different)

The only thing you do in rhythm games that could be described musical is keeping one's timing down. Which isn't even that musical, metronomes do that for people, and you can play music fine on your own without keeping the speed constant.

If you still think notematching games are anything more than key tapping fun while listening to some cool electronica, you're totally out of touch with what making music or playing an instrument is about and you should one of those for a change too.

I play o2jam/o2mania and beatmania (but with o2jam's key configuration) and I'm good at them, so I'm not attacking something I don't know anything about.

I'm not trying to say it's easier to play piano than beat the harder songs in such games. But the games are not musical in anyway.

While Beatmania is somewhat different than simply playing a real instrument, the similarity to the degree of calling it a mere "simon says" is still there.

I play o2jam/o2mania and beatmania (but with o2jam's key configuration) and I'm good at them, so I'm not attacking something I don't know anything about.

Even still, the keys in Beatmania DO coincide with proper note presses at certain times. You'd know this if you played it enough, and had any sort of musical competence. However, the fundamentals are the same as playing an instrument in every way. Keyboardmania, another example I gave, is completely true to the real piano.

Cloud, you and I are clearly dumbfuck noob idiots who know nothing about anything. We should pack our bags and find our closest respective LAN centers and try to get our nerd XP up high enough to be able to talk to His Highness Vedic.

Nice posts :)

Anyone with half a brain will see where the strong arguments are when reading this thread.

Edit: I should have said half a brain OR MORE so I don't get Vedic stomped.

Thanks, I was beginning to worry that I had wandered off into VedicReality, where Gaming meets Insanity.

i like the structure and i'd love to play in this. :o

The more i think about it, changing the game every few months is a bad idea. I do not see new talent getting developed at all. That was one of cpl 's mistakes imo. I think this would keep the "pros" at the top. Also, I can see players not participating when the games switch.

instead of switching games every season, why not switch all the maps up. In a game like q3 this would not be a problem, there are gems out there yet to be discovered. Also, there is a shitload of mappers that can make quality maps for q3. Probably wouldnt be a problem to freelance some professionals to make maps for each season.

The idea of the point system, and a separate circut for the top players is a great idea. This will give aspiring players motivation.

If the game(s) dont change then i think that is optimal for developing new talent. There was a small example of this during the q4 era with cpl/wsvg as the game got older newer maps were released and newer talent was in the spot light. What if wsvg had kept going. dahang was getting closer taking toxic down. I truely believe that wsvg adding ravage and torment to maplist helped.

I mean look a mlg. All they use is halo. They only change when a new version is out. Again, their system ALLOWS new talant to com in. Which in turn aspires peopel to play halo more...

I could be wrong, and hopefully this does work. I love the 1v1 dm genre. There is definately a void that needs to be filled,. I just hope this isnt some long con to make a few bucks.

Can't really add much to these points.

A big plus to this league in my opinion is stability - and I agree with the above about perhaps changing maps rather than overhauling the games all the time
>> Have to admit that this is one reason why I am supporting the CGS; stability (pity they changed PGR so early though!)

Yay more 1v1 DM. =)

you should've made a poll on this site for the four, or three games that you wanted to choose for this tour. you can still do it; no one will bash you for second-guessing yourself. we're the only community you have (ut3 lol)

Is this for the American scene only? If not im in! :D

"the AGP Tour™ will be hosting four international tournaments"

GO STREETRUNNER!!!

So, from my understanding, there are 4 tournaments a year, once every 3 months. Each tournament it's a different game.

And the voting situation, if a new 1v1 game comes out, like, Warsow 2 or something (That will never happen) players can vote out Warsow, and replace it with Warsow 2...

So this is almost like the WSVG, except 4 games in a byear, and not just Quake 4 all year round

I must say, I really like this idea. I'd definitely compete in Warsow, Quake 3 and Quake 4, and the way the tournament is run, you have 3 months to practice for each. I really like the idea, I hope this goes over very well!

:D:D:D

Each major tournament also has its "minors", smaller tournaments at LAN centers where you can accrue some extra points.

Will those 'minors' be the same game as the tournament game?

Like if the first tournament is Quake 3, will the 'minors' also be Quake 3? Or will they do all the games for the minors.

Yeah, they'll be the same game as the current season's major.

great news. just hope you can follow through with a good tourney and get the interest to make it sustainable. these days that might be quite hard though.

Also, alot of thought is going to have to go into the finer details.

change UT3 to UT2k4 please.

Ut2kx is lame and boring and ut3 is a single bug - so what?

In terms of a competitive FPS, UT2k4 is in a better state then UT3 (my opinion).

Anyone else think differently? =\

Yep, but the shield gun ruins it all.

Gameplay wise i prefer ut3 over ut2kx but yeah its still ut :P

Ah, forgot about the shield gun.

I hate that thing.

Maybe a mod patch to remove the gun, then use it? Or am I going to far.

..I'm going to far.

I remember playing UT1 in league play and liking it, many of the players I was associated with had the same attitude to the game. I get the same "I like this"-feeling in UT3 eventhough I have only played it for only a fraction of the time I have spent in UT1.

Could I please get some deeper insight in why your opinion is that ut2k4 would be better for competative play than ut3?
The reason I ask is as you might understand that I haven't played ut2k4.

Really curious to see some more news develop on this. As it stands this is pretty lacking in the actual information department.

quake is not a sport. Stop trying to pander it to the idiot boxes of america.

i love your flag =D. but your post is wrong :-)

why can't they just be their own thing instead of trying to fashion it into WWF or making cheesy comparisons to sports? Nobody ever went and constantly kept flashing "POKER IS A SPORT" non stop whenever they talked about their legues when they were trying to bring more ppl to their events and to watch on tv. They simply highlighted it's attractive features. The difference is poker had a foundation.

This "press release" or whatever it is reminds me exactly of the GGL when they first started. And what the hell is the ggl now? I was going to try to elaborate further but i can't because i don't even know what they really are at this point

Quake/DM is a unique thing with a unique scene, but the FPS field is the only scene that has constantly had this insecurity about being accepted on a "mainstream" level, unlike any other GAME (not sport) there is out there be it street fighter or chess. Just look at the stupid moniker "Esports". It's transparent marketing and advertising (for little kids.. cs?). Nobody's gonna take that seriously, how has nobody not realized that by now? How many ppl at your school know what the fuck esports is? Grow up already and get a vision, and stop trying to market everything to be "super cool dewd".

Just hold some serious, professional looking tournaments on a reasonable basis with good organization (cmon it's been 10 years already), with communication with players and people who know this field and it will grow from there. You need a foundation; the scene doesn't even have a game with all it's switching. And this tournament with FOUR different DM games, most with a total lack of a competitive scene, doesn't help that at all. Just look at the history of any sport or game. Nearly none of them started in any different manner and the longer this scene tries to avoid that the worst it's gonna get.

I can't put into words exactly my ideas about this in 4 small paragraphs because this whole scene is already so messed up, but lets just say the sound and tone of this press release is embarrassing and it's why half of these comments are beyond skeptical.

While I want DM gaming to succeed in some form (as I like playing and spectating, and think it has more potential than it's realized), I agree with what you're saying here (as you might have seen in other posts/threads).

Quake before CPL was something special; it felt like it was on a path for sustainable growth with lots of grassroots activity, a good distribution of skills top to bottom, no so-called pros, no Angel Munoz. Then, with what was "Quakecon 1998" things changed. Angel saw ways to make it explode, and while he did lots of things to make it explode, the players weren't the ones who got the best of the deal (except the few pros). I think what happened was that the skill differential from top to bottom grew too fast for it to remain fun for fresh meat. Once players started chasing money, they went from being really good (except a few exceptionally talented players) to being absolutely phenomenal. I think this elimination of the middle class (via this attrition, other games, etc.) killed the inertia that QW and Q2 had built up, and when Q3 came around, that's when it got out of control, and there wasn't enough room for players to get in on the ground floor and enjoy it; it sucked for a long time if you wanted to get good.

I'm fucking exhausted, so this may not make sense, but basically much like the bubbles in economies, the bubble for DM gaming has come and gone. If it's righted and put on a path of sustainable growth (as it was back in the day), there's a future. Cultivating a new "middle class" that's large, easy to transition into, and friendly (rofl yeah right) is key though before we can go back to the huge prizes/cries for respect/legitmacy of the CPL era.

Fuck ya I can't wait to see a Quake 4 tourny again!

I just hope when they say International, they really mean it. Not like WSVG which ran like 4 stops in the U.S only to then have less than great stops in China and the UK.

STOP WHINING. goddamn it :E

cool! where does the money come from?

nice!!!!!!!!!!1

I see a lot of people going "LOL Q4! Put CPM in there!"
There is a lot of people that play 1v1 in Q4. Especially me. If AGP does Q4, I will compete. That's one more player added to the handful of competitors. How many more players could be added to 1v1 competition by utilizing multiple titles?

But then you could look at it and say that if they have too many games, they will spread their assets to thin and will inevitably fail. Personally I think with all these games, they will be biting off more than they can chew, especially in their very first year as an operation. So maybe as it grows they could start adding in games so more people from different games can compete.

However, guts does make a good point though. Having too many games will under-develop potential talent. So that's a harsh issue to deal with. I don't really think there is any one perfect way to deal with these issues. I think certain things should be constantly be looked at. Things dealt with in a case by case basis instead of these one size fits all policies. See what ideas work and what ones need to be trashed. Treat the players right and cut out all the fat! Attract good sponsors. Note that good sponsors are not necessarily rich sponsors, but ones that will do the most good in the long run. Don't put all your eggs in one basket and fall. I think this can be a huge success if planned carefully and with great attention to detail with everything. I can't wait to see the next piece of news this will bring.

o hypno é que sabe e parou!

we all are dumbfuck noob idiots who know nothing about anything. I agree with you Stasis!
chk

Just one thing i would ask since im not familier with that kind of cups. So actualy every player of that toure will have to play all 4 games ?

Bumping that one as well : ]