#1 fansite for quakelive eh, esr is doomed

they can have the "fan" part if they want :P

ye we should just stick to what we know... trolls xxx

Id Software may introduce a pay "premium" service for browser-based shooter Quake Live, depending on how the community reacts to the full release....

Ahhhhhahahaha. Finally, an ulterior motive rears its ugly head (assuming this is true; since no other source has even hinted at this, though, I do have my doubts).

I remember reading something about micropayments a while back, either way it'll be optional and depending on how good the game is and what extra features you gain I might pay it.

I wouldn't. Now, if the game were based on a brand-new platform, that's a totally different story, but ads should suffice. If id isn't satisfied with the revenue they make from advertising through QL, I say they're just getting greedy.

if they really can't afford to keep the servers up for the game, they should really let the community do what it wants
buy their own servers

optional != greedy

I doubt they can really come up with any features that justify paying for them, especially considering we're playing a tweaked version of a 10-year-old game.

wouldn't just turning off the adds ( and by turning off I mean remove completely, use a different map pack without billboardies etc. ) be worth upgrading?

IMO, no.

bunnies

Did you mean to reply to me?

Just look at the 2008 Quakecon keynote with John Carmack and you will get an idea of what that means.

So what? If you really want these exotic features NOONE normal uses anyway, you can buy the Pro package if you want your timeouts and ping displays and whatnot. People actually have to code these you know, it's not like some idiot would code them for free.

Are you:

A) Trolling for the sake of argument.

B) Really that thick?

The answer for you is quite obviously b)

troll

Fuck,I hope not. I don't mind the idea of pay content, but there are too many idiots and whiners who aren't willing to give up their daily big mac for a $5 map pack, so there will be nobody to play it with.

so funny, yet so true lol

Can't they see the obvious way to change Quake Live into a catchy title? Quake Love!

Al long as you can eat them raw.

#1 with 3 ppl online ? :>

quakeliver is a type of cirrhosis that you develop after the direness of ql makes you consume copious amounts of alcohol in order to make the game feel enjoyable.

I'd troll them, but there aren't enough of them to make it worth it.

I'd troll you, but you're a nobody so whats the point.

AlexMax
Posts: 205
Popularity: Wannabe

Vedic
Posts: 2697
Popularity: Supreme Ruler

I already trolled you.

compensating for something?

For a wannabe.

For a small cock and lousy job and fat ugly girlfriend.

Look on the bright side, you can change 2 of those things.

You can change all three! I have the secret! send me an e-mail! [email protected]

becoming a eunuch and marrying a fat ugly girlfriend is not the solution!

there aren't many eunuch positions open these days.

i smell some raeg

esr is up shit creek without a paddle with this one!

The idea of paying for Quake Live is bad...but they could do well with it.

For example, $20 (A flat rate, or maybe yearly rate) would get you into any server, but more importantly, would allow you to SPAWN servers.

So you can create a private passworded server and you're in control of maps and mode.

I'd pay $20 just to be able to play in a private server and not deal with 8 randoms in the line-up to join next.

I own / launched quakeliver.com because I saw an opportunity, the few existing quake live dedicated fan sites out there were very weak. I run xspore.com and have experience running successful fan sites, so I said why the hell not..

Now it currently ranks #4 or #5 (it fluctuates) for "quake live" in google. While keeping in mind the site isn't huge, by a pretty decent margin, we *are* the biggest quake live dedicated fan site. The game hasn't released yet so there's not a huge market. But when it does, we'll be right there.

Hate on. ;)

Can I get a job I hate my current one and I'm good at computery.

who isn't good at computering?

keep dreaming, anyone can set up an php-nuke site and call it the best

ESR > any other quake site

how stupid can one be?!?!!!#!!!!! the FUCKING LOGO IS THE FUCKING Q IN FUCKING "QUAKE" YOU NUMSKULL!!

Now it currently ranks #4 or #5 (it fluctuates) for "quake live" in google.

It's like being in a race to have the most cancer.

Uhm, how exactly is it a bad thing to rank high in the search engines for specific keywords? The higher you rank, the more traffic you get. I make $40k a year from one site alone just by ranking in google. I know of other SEO experts who make hundreds of thousands per month...

So yeah.. if having the most cancer means having a lot of traffic (money) in your eyes... I want cancer, and a lot of it..

As for the name, it's immediately evident more so as a "U" than a Q. It's why I did it, and as a sense of some quick branding so that fans will immediately identify the logo with the game.

http://www.gamershell.com/static/boxart/large/241.jpg

its a fucking Q and not an U, nice "fan" site.

You're trying to be the king of shit, just because you'd be the king. Your site is as useful as a site dedicated to Daikatana.

As for the name, I meant "quakeliver"; it's dumb. The logo is dumb as well, but I hadn't gotten to that yet. Not even sure how you confused the two.

Have you ever even played Quake? Or do you just really enjoy trolling ESR?

I've probably been playing since before you were an itch in your daddy's pants.

Then why have I never seen you in any Quake game? Is it just my luck that I have never seen you on any IRC channel or Quake server? Or did you just play Quake once and decided you'd rather cry about it than play?

I don't use IRC. end.

It's so fun schooling idiots... Class is in session, so listen up, k kid?

Establishing a successful forum is known amongst the webmaster community as being a difficult thing to do. Why? Because if there's either (a) a lot of competition already or (b) a lack of demand or purpose, it's hard to get members and retain them in order to populate your forum with posts / content.

With that in mind, all I did was quickly through up a fan site for Quake Live because I saw both (a) little competition, and (b) a foreseeable demand. Then I gave it a link real quick from my other fan site (xspore.com, which you should also note is the biggest dedicated fansite for Spore).

That's all I did. And now it has become successful, and the biggest dedicated fansite for Quake Live. People naturally signed up on their own and started posting.

Here's where you need to use any bit of intelligence that you can muster up in that lump of shit between your shoulders you call a head... If my site isn't useful, why has it naturally gained members? A site doesn't have to provide a consistent flow of unique content or be the greatest thing since sliced bread to be useful.

I launched the site at the right time, as I did with Spore. It's useful in the idea that people enjoy the environment. It's a win win. I make money from the traffic, and my visitors enjoy the site because they use it.

What you're hating on, I have no idea. It's called business and opportunity.

So maybe you should consider thinking before you end up making someone like me, annihilate you in front of everyone.

'someone like me'
eeheheheh

It's so fun schooling idiots... Class is in session, so listen up, k kid?

Now I'm going to tell you how it works in the real world, gramps.

Here's where you need to use any bit of intelligence that you can muster up in that lump of shit between your shoulders you call a head... If my site isn't useful, why has it naturally gained members? A site doesn't have to provide a consistent flow of unique content or be the greatest thing since sliced bread to be useful.

A site dedicated to "optical goat skullfucking" would gain members - it's the internet. Welcome to it. Also, you should try to research what I was talking about with Daikatana before you go spouting off defending yourself in the wrong ways like that. =DDD

With that in mind, all I did was quickly through up a fan site for Quake Live because I saw both (a) little competition, and (b) a foreseeable demand. Then I gave it a link real quick from my other fan site (xspore.com, which you should also note is the biggest dedicated fansite for Spore).

That's great - want a cookieprune? This is not a spore community.

What you're hating on, I have no idea. It's called business and opportunity.

It's called Quake Live. It sucks. The name of your site? It sucks, too. The logo? It sucks. Your forum? It sucks. Layout on the front page? You guessed it - it sucks. This community does not need more businessmen - we need more people who actually care about games. Your greed will only help to destroy the community, and your site.

So maybe you should consider thinking before you end up making someone like me, annihilate you in front of everyone.

You couldn't even understand that I was making fun of the NAME of your site when I mentioned it, instead thinking I was attacking the logo. On that note, how do you misplace the Q in a Quake logo? Do you even know what Quake IS? The only positive thing about your site is that it will aid in the death of QL. The best part about your stupidity is that I get to come back here when the game and your site fail to make fun of you.

OHI SPAMMERS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Haha.. my greed? Are you serious kid?

Since when does owning a website automatically correlate to greed you moron? I'm a huge gamer, I played the first wolfenstein 3d when it first came out -> doom -> doom2 -> quake -> quake2 etc

If I'm so greedy, you would see advertisements up at quakeliver, and you don't. And whether or not quake live fails, I don't give a shit. If you knew anything about websites or the internet, you'd know that traffic in and of itself has value. I have that value already, I've succeeded. The 2 hours it took me to put quakeliver up has been paid off because I can easily turn around right now (and the game isn't out) and sell it for $1k-$2k. So you can say all you want about how much the site sucks, I'm the one who will profit from it.

Initially I just thought you were a troll, but now I seriously think you're a genuine moron.

On that note, don't you have some burgers to flip?

Haha.. my greed? Are you serious kid?

As serious as you are raged!

Since when does owning a website automatically correlate to greed you moron? I'm a huge gamer, I played the first wolfenstein 3d when it first came out -> doom -> doom2 -> quake -> quake2 etc

...and you still don't know where the Q goes in Quake.

If I'm so greedy, you would see advertisements up at quakeliver, and you don't. And whether or not quake live fails, I don't give a shit. If you knew anything about websites or the internet, you'd know that traffic in and of itself has value. I have that value already, I've succeeded. The 2 hours it took me to put quakeliver up has been paid off because I can easily turn around right now (and the game isn't out) and sell it for $1k-$2k. So you can say all you want about how much the site sucks, I'm the one who will profit from it.

Please, don't sell it - I want it to fail.

Initially I just thought you were a troll, but now I seriously think you're a genuine moron.

On that note, don't you have some burgers to flip?

Oh man, I haven't heard that one before. It's ties into the original attempt at an insult where you tried to condescend by referring to me as a "kid." It's a witty spin on a classic. Did you make that up? It's so original. You didn't, did you? What was it from? SNL? The Daily Show? If you really made that up, you should change profession to comedy - that's fucking gold. You're so cute.

he's just hosting a website, stop being such a fucking emo over everything.

Welcome to a week ago. I might have cared if you said this then, but probably not.

when you try make a profit no matter how, as you just said you do,people will call it greed.

So please grab a dictionary before you go to school here again. It should also contain a pretty picture of the letter "u"...

BAWW BAWW

LIFE SUCKS. QUAKE SUCKS. YOU SUCK. I SUCK. EVERYTHING IS SHITTY BAWW BAWW LIFE IS SO HORRIBLE EVERYTHING JUST SUCKS BAWW BAWWW ESR SUCKS. FANSITES SUCK.

pretty much sums up every post of him.

You forgot "You suck."

l2r

No no, I meant you.

l 2 r

No, you specifically.

l2r = LEARN TO READ I COVERED ALL BASES

No, you didn't.

Posts per day: 40

yeah, I can do that.

Oh wait, that's for all users? nevermind then...

Q !

I make $40k a year from one site alone just by ranking in google.

ROFL no u dont

Fansites are a good idea I suppose, but quakelive already has its own forums which will suck up most of the possible members to your site. If they aren't posting there then they'll likely be here if they heard of it.

gl with that.

Why do you guys give the guy shit for starting it?`:).

I wish him all the luck. If the site is good i might consider reading it once in a while :)

1. the name

2. quake live

If the game was actually terrible, they would be flooding people with invites or even opening up the game for open beta as a marketing gimmick as a desperate attempt to get word-of-mouth advertising.

too bad its not whats actually going on, there are people still begging for invites.

They already did.. several times. Pay attention.

Demand does not equate to quality, especially with something that isn't out. Doom 3? Quake 4? ETQW? Keep trying to reassure yourself that QL will be a huge success. Denial is delicious.

How can I be in denial? I don't have nearly as much time to play games as I used to, and I don't have time to be a fanboy for something I don't genuinely enjoy playing.

Quake Live is something I play nearly every day since June, and my Steam and Impulse games list is a mile long, filled with games I bought and never played more than a day or so. It may not get the population of Battlefield Heroes or whatever the hot new 'tacticool' property is, but it's not a bad game, not by any stretch of the imagination, and will do fine when it finally enters 1.0 and gets a proper marketing push.

How can I be in denial? I don't have nearly as much time to play games as I used to,

Unrelated.

I don't have time to be a fanboy for something I don't genuinely enjoy playing.

Which is why you edited your other post to sound less fanboyish?

It may not get the population of Battlefield Heroes or whatever the hot new 'tacticool' property is, but it's not a bad game, not by any stretch of the imagination, and will do fine when it finally enters 1.0 and gets a proper marketing push.

If by fine, you mean 17 players. id do not know how to make or market a game.

If by fine, you mean 17 players. id do not know how to make or market a game.

What makes you think that?

Previous failures, and the design mentality behind QL.

Elaborate.

See: Doom 3, Quake 4, ETQW, sandbox thread, quake live forums.

Doom 3, their most commercially successful game? Quake 4 was rubbish, and also by Raven "Have we made a single game that wasn't shockingly mediocre in our lives" Software. It was one of the things that spurred the creation of id team 2. ETQW was a good game, it just wasn't Quake 5 or Wolf: ET 2. You're non-ironically using ESReality as a measuring stick of how popular or unpopular a game is? I don't really know how I can refute your last point without breaking the NDA so I'll just say that you're hilariously wrong there too.

Doom 3 - 2 million copies sold, no players, poor reselling
Quake 4 - Less than 1 million copies sold, no players
ETQW - Less than 1 million copies sold, no players

I attribute the success of Doom 3 ONLY to the success of Doom 2. Much like Quake 4, we bought the game in ignorance.

The sandbox thread just goes to show how little id understands what it is that players want. The Quake Live forums were a real eye-opener when they secretly decided to reveal that they weren't making the kind of game they asked feedback for. The ignorance of the developers to think that you could use Q3 as a base to make a casual game is impressive.

Where do you get your blind faith in a company that hasn't released a real game in over a decade?

Where do you get your blind faith in a company that hasn't released a real game in over a decade?

Because it's not blind faith you nitwit. I can play it. I can log in, pick a random server, get into a game and enjoy myself. That's the most important part. I'm having fun. If the game wasn't fun, I wouldn't even be bothering talking to you.

If the game wasn't fun, I wouldn't even be bothering talking to you.

How are the two mutually connected in any way? The 17 people who play Q4 have fun, too. That is, until they get bored of playing each other.

gg comparing a widely available commercial game to a closed beta with limited invites?

10,000+ is not limited. Nice try, though.

And yet another delightful misstep with comparing something that cost nothing to try out to something that cost $49.00 or more. I've had a few friends who tried Quake Live for a game or two, didn't like it, and went back to TF2. They also didn't like Quake 3 or CPM either. Without the 'getting your moneys worth' factor, there is less incentive for a newer player to keep playing, since you haven't really lost anything if you didn't quite like it at first.

In order to get better attach rates for a free game you have to increase the 'surface area', or the number of users exposed to the game, compared to a paid-for game. And like I mentioned earlier, that won't happen until 1.0.

To get back to the point though, yes, those are pretty limited numbers, considering the existence of 'wasted invites' on people who won't ever like quake style games in the first place and especially considering the fact that there are those who are still without invites who want them.

And yet another delightful misstep with comparing something that cost nothing to try out to something that cost $49.00 or more. There is no incentive for players of a free game to continue playing, so in order to get comparable attach rates you have to increase the 'surface area', or the number of users exposed to the game, compared to a paid-for game.

Quake 3 has been out 10 years. You can now get it for ~$5. Despite the price going down, the popularity has not increased. On the other hand, CS went from being free to costing money, and has seen an INCREASE in players.

WoW? About $40 up front and $15/month. That's not even counting the expansion ($40) that comes out in a month. Sitting at roughly 11 million subscribers, at the moment.

Price is not an issue for gamers. It NEVER has been, and it never will be. The game wouldn't have to be free if it was any good and actually done. 10k invites already gone out, and you have less than 1% of them to show for it.

Quake 3 has been out 10 years. You can now get it for ~$5. Despite the price going down, the popularity has not increased. On the other hand, CS went from being free to costing money, and has seen an INCREASE in players.

WoW? About $40 up front and $15/month. That's not even counting the expansion ($40) that comes out in a month. Sitting at roughly 11 million subscribers, at the moment.

Man, you're really bad at this, you do realize that WoW is sitting next to a zillion Sims expansions on the sales charts, right, all of which are making EA tons of money? Repeat after me, sales do not represent game quality.

And counterstrike was never free. If you weren't buying the boxed copy, you had to pay for Half Life in the first place, which had the advantage of being a fantastic game in its own right.

Man, you're really bad at this, you do realize that WoW is sitting next to a zillion Sims expansions on the sales charts, right, all of which are making EA tons of money? Repeat after me, sales do not represent game quality.

You're starting to forget your position now. I don't disagree on the quality of a game, but merely how it can sell. In this case, QL cannot sell. One, id has done nothing but fail for the past 10 years. Two, QL has already had a large sample size of players to test it, and it's a fairly good view on how poorly it will do upon release. Three, of the few people who DO play QL, it will only help to break the current community up even more as there will be plenty of people who refuse to switch.

id has already pointed out that the life of Quake is strictly based on QL's success. It doesn't matter if you and 16 other people think it's the greatest game ever - id is going to have to come to terms with the (disappointing, at best) results that they get.

Fun fact: UT3 sold better than Q4.

You're starting to forget your position now. I don't disagree on the quality of a game, but merely how it can sell.

Did I ever say that I thought that id would ever see the hundreds of thousands of concurrent players? That's really fucking optimistic by anybodies standards. At the same time though, you're insinuating that it's going to fail as hard as Quake 4, and that's really laughable.

Quite frankly, I don't give a shit about how Quake Live splits the existing Quake community. Forget id software, you guys fail just as much as anybody at providing an environment for newbies to get their legs. Before Quake Live I watched a lot of Quake and Warsow but played very rarely because there were "17 people" at my skill level and like you said, playing the same 17 people over and over again gets really old.

Now, I play the game every other day. Even with its current "1%" playerbase, there are way more people my skill than I ever saw in Quake proper, and I'm having way more fun than I ever did playing any proper Quake because I can actually...you know...play it. Anytime I want. Without waiting in IRC or hoping I don't interrupt a 'serious' pickup game Without constantly being handed 22 to -5 scores.

Without going into further detail, it seems like most of the QL haters either lack reading comprehension, are impatient, are cynical or most likely all three. I'd say that I would be worried about your crowd shunning the game, but how can I be worried it the game is attracting newbies and older players alike with the environment it has?

Quite frankly, I think QL is doing just fine without you. It might not be a smashing success, but it's going to do a hell of a lot better you give it credit for.

Did I ever say that I thought that id would ever see the hundreds of thousands of concurrent players? That's really fucking optimistic by anybodies standards. At the same time though, you're insinuating that it's going to fail as hard as Quake 4, and that's really laughable.

Laughable? The worst part about QL failing is that you can't even play it if id shuts it down because it's all web-based. It'll fail HARDER than Q4.

Quite frankly, I don't give a shit about how Quake Live splits the existing Quake community. Forget id software, you guys fail just as much as anybody at providing an environment for newbies to get their legs. Before Quake Live I watched a lot of Quake and Warsow but played very rarely because there were "17 people" at my skill level and like you said, playing the same 17 people over and over again gets really old.

So you're a casual and a newbie. You don't even understand how the community or the genre works.

Now, I play the game every other day. Even with its current "1%" playerbase, there are way more people my skill than I ever saw in Quake proper, and I'm having way more fun than I ever did playing any proper Quake because I can actually...you know...play it. Anytime I want. Without waiting in IRC or hoping I don't interrupt a 'serious' pickup game Without constantly being handed 22 to -5 scores.

Same thing happened when Q4 and D3 first came out.

Without going into further detail, it seems like most of the QL haters either lack reading comprehension, are impatient, are cynical or most likely all three. I'd say that I would be worried about your crowd shunning the game, but how can I be worried it the game is attracting newbies and older players alike with the environment it has?

This has all happened before. When the new car smell wears off, you're going to be enjoying another 17 player failure.

Quite frankly, I think QL is doing just fine without you. It might not be a smashing success, but it's going to do a hell of a lot better you give it credit for.

I'm in the beta. Twice. You have no basis to assume it will do well - you're basically putting your faith in a higher power to make the game survive. It's people like you that are the reason I haven't left ESR yet. When the shit hits the fan, I get to come back to all these threads and tell you how wrong you were.

Laughable? The worst part about QL failing is that you can't even play it if id shuts it down because it's all web-based. It'll fail HARDER than Q4.

Agreed. But if Quake Live game fails, then Quake-style deathmatch games are also dead. It'll be sad, but I'll be no worse off than before, since if there was nobody my skill to play with before, there definitely won't be anybody afterwards.

So you're a casual and a newbie. You don't even understand how the community or the genre works.

This is where you couldn't be more wrong in your life. I do, in fact, understand what makes multiplayer games popular It needs to be accessible and fun enough for a newbie, but deep and balanced enough to facilitate competition.

Games that don't satisfy the first criteria generally don't last more than a few weeks. Games that satisfy both criteria, however, grow into Counterstrike, TF2, CoD, you get the drill, those games you see with tons of servers and players at any given time. You also notice that none of those games had tourney-modes or any other stuff like right out of the gate, those came later when those same newbies stuck around long enough to want to take the game seriously.

However, there is a problem. If the influx of newbies ever runs out, for whatever reason, then the community gradually shrinks The average skill level goes higher and higher until it becomes prohibitively difficult for a random newbie who has never played the game before to fit in. Thus, it abandons the first criteria and is pretty much doomed, unless something drastic happens.

The quakes are at this stage right now. The barriers to entry, in terms of what you are expected to pay for the game, what you are expected to know before playing the game, what you are expected have installed and how long you have to 'stick with it' until you stop becoming the bottom of the scoreboard, are all prohibitive.

Quake Live is an effort to push away some of those barriers to entry. If, instead of having to buy Quake 3, know that you need to use the Quake Pro Installer and also get X Y and Z mapsets, and still get mercilessly stomped on by a tiny community, you had a simple free browser plugin that you just installed and ran with. It's basically a newbie shot in the arm for the Quake community, one it desperately needs.

Same thing happened when Q4 and D3 first came out.

Q4 and D3 (and UT3 for that matter) were mediocre multiplayer titles from the get-go. Newbies didn't even bother buying it in the first place, or only played the single player and got bored with the mediocre multiplayer, and pros went in expecting the next Q3+OSP and came out of it disappointed and cynical.

Agreed. But if Quake Live game fails, then Quake-style deathmatch games are also dead. It'll be sad, but I'll be no worse off than before, since if there was nobody my skill to play with before, there definitely won't be anybody afterwards.

No, then id-style deathmatch games are dead. That's a step in the right direction. A real developer needs to step up.

This is where you couldn't be more wrong in your life.

Oh, I could. I could say "You have a good point."

I do, in fact, understand what makes multiplayer games popular It needs to be accessible and fun enough for a newbie, but deep and balanced enough to facilitate competition.

How insightful. If only you were at the helm of these gaming companies so they could enjoy the fruits of your genius.

Games that don't satisfy the first criteria generally don't last more than a few weeks. Games that satisfy both criteria, however, grow into Counterstrike, TF2, CoD, you get the drill, those games you see with tons of servers and players at any given time. You also notice that none of those games had tourney-modes or any other stuff like right out of the gate, those came later when those same newbies stuck around long enough to want to take the game seriously.

These games were not built around balance or professionalism. Just like Doom 2, if a community enjoys a game enough, tournaments will arise out of fun, not necessity. CS/TF2/COD were created for an audience. Tournaments, just as the game itself, should be about having fun - that's where casual games succeed and id fails. You can't have both ends of the spectrum in one game. The best QL can hope to be is a less-than-hardcore professional game, or a moderately-fun casual game. This doesn't work in theory or in practice.

No, then id-style deathmatch games are dead. That's a step in the right direction. A real developer needs to step up.

Sorry mate, but Traditional Deathmatch games are seen as 'old hat' by every respectable developer out there and indeed a sizable amount of the gaming playerbase (who incidently probably wouldn't waste $59 on a boxed copy of a game when the series has a reputation of an impossible learning curve, but might give a free one that they saw a banner ad for a try). If Quake dies, you're not getting another chance at this style of game, you're playing TF2.

These games were not built around balance or professionalism. Just like Doom 2, if a community enjoys a game enough, tournaments will arise out of fun, not necessity. CS/TF2/COD were created for an audience. Tournaments, just as the game itself, should be about having fun - that's where casual games succeed and id fails.

In my travels, I've heard the same impassioned explanations of why game X is worthy of tournament play and they're no less convincing than any argument I've seen here. Not exactly the same, their reasoning is different, but they come to the same conclusion (their game is the best) and do so with the same conviction. Quake is not in any way special, it's just another good game that has happened to go 'out-of-style' with the newbie/casual crowd due to barriers to entry and change in taste.

Tournaments arise out of players who get good at a game with depth wishing to play organized competitions against other players of similar skill level. That's all there is to it, and trying to imply that some games are 'more worthy' than others because they 'need' it is retarded.

I'm in the beta. Twice.

And maybe...just maybe...the game isn't designed to adhere to your standards. This is honestly something I'm glad the development team has (consciously or not) taken a stand on, because trying to please or unite the quake community is a foolish dream by anybodies standards, it's like asking 1,000 people what they want for dinner. They never would have been able to please everyone, and what they lose in hardcore quakers by doing their own prioritizing they stand to make up for in newbies and the portion of the older playerbase who doesn't have a fit of aspergers over a fucking 1dps change in lightning gun strength.

Sorry mate, but Traditional Deathmatch games are seen as 'old hat' by every respectable developer out there and indeed a sizable amount of the gaming playerbase (who incidently probably wouldn't waste $59 on a boxed copy of a game when the series has a reputation of an impossible learning curve, but might give a free one that they saw a banner ad for a try). If Quake dies, you're not getting another chance at this style of game, you're playing TF2.

Oh goodie, now you're arguing my point, but saying that QL is an exception to the rule. I don't terribly mind TF2 for casual fun, actually. I also happen to play WoW.

And maybe...just maybe...the game isn't designed to adhere to your standards. This is honestly something I'm glad the development team has (consciously or not) taken a stand on, because trying to please or unite the quake community is a foolish dream by anybodies standards, it's like asking 1,000 people what they want for dinner.

Like I said, I play TF2 and WoW. I won't play a bastardized version of a game that died out, simply to show my support for the genre. The problem is that this game doesn't live up to the standards of Q3, and the very foundation of the game goes against the principle of casual gaming. It's not just that I don't like it, it's that it can't work for either purpose.

Tournaments arise out of players who get good at a game with depth wishing to play organized competitions against other players of similar skill level. That's all there is to it, and trying to imply that some games are 'more worthy' than others because they 'need' it is retarded.

The game can be as deep as you want, but people won't care if it doesn't appeal to them. How many people do you know that know how to play Chess? How about checkers? When was the last professional Chess tournament you saw on TV? How about the last bowling tournament? NASCAR? The selling point of a game can never be depth.

They never would have been able to please everyone, and what they lose in hardcore quakers by doing their own prioritizing they stand to make up for in newbies and the portion of the older playerbase who doesn't have a fit of aspergers over a fucking 1dps change in lightning gun strength.

This is where your argument ultimately fails. Just because you aren't pleasing the professional players does not mean you are pleasing the casuals. It's not the features, it's the GAME.

The problem is that this game doesn't live up to the standards of Q3, and the very foundation of the game goes against the principle of casual gaming.

Foundation my ass, you couldn't have been more wrong about this point if you tried. I guarantee you, if you organized a large group of casual players and put them on the same Q3 server, they would enjoy themselves. I've done it a few times with largely random people from various online communities, it's an awesome experience...at least until a few random pro players get on and get the bright idea to to team stack and make everyone else quit.

And it's not just my anecdotal experiences. Why do you think they took out so many movement tricks from Quake 2, included bots, and introduced such a relatively balanced weapon set? Even Carmack said at QCon 2007 that his favorite game was Quake 3 largely because of how simple the game was from a gameplay standpoint. I'd even go so far as to mention an 1999-ish interview that mentioned their intention to make the game appeal to newcomers which resulted in decisions like the removal of q2 movement tricks, bots, etc., but I can't find any trace of it at the moment.

The problem is not the GAME as you put it, it's the playerbase. There is a shortage of newbies, and the best way to entice them to play your game is with a free , professionally backed game. Also keep in mind that the curious newbies will not be thrown to the wolves, but put in games with similarly skilled newbies using matchmaking.

Also, you're underestimating the effect of it being free. Free games tend to attract those with the most time on their hands and not a lot of cash...teenagers, college students, gamers with old computers (and hey presto, id tech 3 happens to be around 8 years old so it'll run fine on their shitbox PC). Free isn't just another price, it increases your potential playerbase by a substantial amount.

Foundation my ass, you couldn't have been more wrong about this point if you tried. I guarantee you, if you organized a large group of casual players and put them on the same Q3 server, they would enjoy themselves. I've done it a few times with largely random people from various online communities, it's an awesome experience...at least until a few random pro players get on and get the bright idea to to team stack and make everyone else quit.

Yeah, for 15 minutes. And then get bored. Been there, tried that. Even tried to hold cash prize tourneys out of my pocket at the local LAN centers. I've gone out of my way to try to teach people, and they just don't like the game.

And it's not just my anecdotal experiences. Why do you think they took out so many movement tricks from Quake 2, included bots, and introduced such a relatively balanced weapon set? Even Carmack said at QCon 2007 that his favorite game was Quake 3 largely because of how simple the game was from a gameplay standpoint. I'd even go so far as to mention an 1999-ish interview that mentioned their intention to make the game appeal to newcomers which resulted in decisions like the removal of q2 movement tricks, bots, etc., but I can't find any trace of it at the moment.

That's right - Q3 was already supposed to be mainstream ready, and still failed.

The problem is not the GAME as you put it, it's the playerbase. There is a shortage of newbies, and the best way to entice them to play your game is with a free , professionally backed game. Also keep in mind that the curious newbies will not be thrown to the wolves, but put in games with similarly skilled newbies using matchmaking.

Where do you think that shortage of newbies came from? Why do you think the game is dead now? These things don't just happen randomly. Newbies get stuck playing pros in CS, WoW, WC3/DOTA, and SC - yet they haven't died. Again, these features aren't the problem. If you accuse the playerbase of being the problem, why did UT3 do better than Q4? Sure, they both died, but the majority of players on UT3 when it came out were complete newbies.

Also, you're underestimating the effect of it being free. Free games tend to attract those with the most time on their hands and not a lot of cash...teenagers, college students, gamers with old computers (and hey presto, id tech 3 happens to be around 8 years old so it'll run fine on their shitbox PC). Free isn't just another price, it increases your potential playerbase by a substantial amount.

No, I don't. I play WoW and have to deal with teenagers (and younger) all the time. CS has comparable requirements and costs money - again, with an increasing playerbase. SC has an even SMALLER requirement, costs money, and is the biggest professional game in the world. Again, I don't see why you think gamers are so poor - maybe you are? If you can't afford a game, go get a job. Trying to make the selling point of your game the price is just silly. HEY GUISE, IF IT SUCKS YOU DIDN'T LOSE ANYTHING AMIRITE? You get what you pay for.

Exactly how long are you going to suck my cock when I tell you how wrong you were in a few months?

"Yeah, for 15 minutes. And then get bored. Been there, tried that. Even tried to hold cash prize tourneys out of my pocket at the local LAN centers. I've gone out of my way to try to teach people, and they just don't like the game."

The best thing is to not play people who you're trying to get into the game. I remember couple of my friends whom I introduced to quake ages ago, they had crazy fun playing eachother, and moreso than 15 mins. But then I jumped in and wanting to show off handed them a 50:-x defeat. They never touched quake again.

That's really all there is to it, people need to get hooked, and they won't get hooked if they realize it'll take a year or two to get to a certain level. That's why having someone to play against on your own skill level is crucial, not gameplay changes, not adds, features or whatnot. Matchmaking will make or break ql.

Indeed, I've tried that as well. I would only seriously play the people I get into it if they wanted to learn the finer points. The few who get to that point lose interest rather quickly and scramble back to CS/etc...

yup it's what usually happens. they'll think they're fit for some tutoring after couple of hours/days of playing eachother. when they see they've not even scratched the surface they'll give up and go back to battlefield. that's why you shouldn't play them at all, but then you'll be considered to be full of shit. no smart way around it rly :)

Oh, I don't usually play them at that point. I'll teach them strafe jumping on tr1ckhouse or something. Usually I start by showing them frag movies, which they seem interested in - they enjoy FFA enough, but aren't willing to put any real effort towards learning any of the finer points of the game.

I've had a few people stick with the game over the years, but they don't actively play it. I did almost convert the owners of another LAN center who were diehard UT99 fans, but they considered spawn killing and rocket jumping "cheating." =/

trying to actively get people into quake is total fail tbh. I realised that when I played this guy who was one of the best local q2ers at that time. He expected to roll me easily (after all q3 is not that different from q2 right? :)) and then he got trashed to a minus. After few such games we never played q3 again even tho I pestered him occasionally, he just went back to q2 and that was that. shame really.

I've long since given up. The players shouldn't be doing all the marketing. =/

Yeah, for 15 minutes. And then get bored. Been there, tried that. Even tried to hold cash prize tourneys out of my pocket at the local LAN centers. I've gone out of my way to try to teach people, and they just don't like the game.

This demonstrates pretty clearly how out-of-touch you are with casuals. Teaching people? Tournaments? You're doing it wrong.

Don't 'teach' them anything, you'll just annoy them and fill their head with shit they don't care about. Just let them play, and if you happen to be playing with them, do NOT play at your best. You're going to have to purposefully miss some shots and make stupid decisions and let the kill you, and for christ sake don't 'handicap' yourself by being a dick and consistently machinegunning or pummel them to death.

And tournaments? With brand new players? Are you nuts?

Let them play at their own pace and allow them to play with people their own skill. You have to let people learn at their own pace, and they should be asking YOU how to do certain things.

And here's the crux of the problem. With the state of Quake today, even if you do pull off the 'interest session' successfully, they will eventually want to play with random people. And they're going to realize that they can't simply join any server on a whim and start playing, because they're all full of pros, and that's when they're going to abandon it. It's stupid, but there's the state of Quake 3 without a newbie population or matchmaking for you.

Where do you think that shortage of newbies came from? Why do you think the game is dead now? These things don't just happen randomly. Newbies get stuck playing pros in CS, WoW, WC3/DOTA, and SC - yet they haven't died.

CS still has tons of servers to pick from, so if the average skill level is too high, you pick another one.
Both WoW and WC3 have matchmaking.
DOTA has the advantage of being able to piggy-back off of Warcraft 3's gargantuan userbase and it being a new and novel gametype. I guarantee you that the lack of matchmaking is going to eventually sink the damn thing once Starcraft 2 becomes the de-facto 'New Blizzard RTS'.
Starcraft's position is unique in that it has become a national sport in Korea with lots of coverage, thus a lot of renewed interested in the game. But the 'newer players' aren't not really newbies, they're people with fond memories who have played the game before back in 1998, and there is still no matchmaking so it's like some sort of bizzaro-Quake with stuff coordinated on forums and IRC instead of joining random servers on battle.net, you still probably couldn't convince average Joe Gamer to play it these days. We'll see what happens when Starcraft 2 comes out.

Again, these features aren't the problem. If you accuse the playerbase of being the problem, why did UT3 do better than Q4? Sure, they both died, but the majority of players on UT3 when it came out were complete newbies.

Because Quake 4 had way too many transplanted players who were way too good. They murdered the newbies, who then left, and then they quit themselves because it didn't live up to their expectations.

can't believe I actually read that. good points tho.

This demonstrates pretty clearly how out-of-touch you are with casuals. Teaching people? Tournaments? You're doing it wrong. Don't 'teach' them anything, you'll just annoy them and fill their head with shit they don't care about. Just let them play, and if you happen to be playing with them, do NOT play at your best. You're going to have to purposefully miss some shots and make stupid decisions and let the kill you, and for christ sake don't 'handicap' yourself by being a dick and consistently machinegunning or pummel them to death.

Oops, now you're assuming. Half the time, I try to get a group of CS players into it and let them learn on their own, then weeks later I would show them the potential of the game with frag movies and trick movies. I've actually been out there teaching people how to play, and introducing them to the game. Dozens of them. You talk like you know about what the people want, but you haven't actually DONE it. I've even bought the game for 3 people, and bought 20 copies of the game for the first LAN center I worked at.

And tournaments? With brand new players? Are you nuts?

Again, you're assuming. Our LAN center did monthly tournaments, and I rallied for the use of Q3 to attempt to get some attention to the game. I did not attend the tournament, so it would be all newbies. Couldn't attend half the time anyway, because I had to work there and run the tourney.

CS still has tons of servers to pick from, so if the average skill level is too high, you pick another one.

Most new Q3 players don't even GET to OSP/CPMA and is picking from the many FFA/instagib/etc servers in the built in vanilla browser. The same applies.

Both WoW and WC3 have matchmaking.

WoW does NOT have matchmaking. Never been in the 1500 bracket and faced off against all S4 players? Hahahaha. WC3 matchmaking fails in the same way.

DOTA has the advantage of being able to piggy-back off of Warcraft 3's gargantuan userbase and it being a new and novel gametype.

Except that WC3 is big in China, and DOTA is big everywhere.

I guarantee you that the lack of matchmaking is going to eventually sink the damn thing once Starcraft 2 becomes the de-facto 'New Blizzard RTS'.

Unless SC2 lives up to SC, it doesn't matter what features or lens flares it has, it will die.

Because Quake 4 had way too many transplanted players who were way too good. They murdered the newbies, who then left, and then they quit themselves because it didn't live up to their expectations.

UT3 had plenty of newbies, which still didn't work. I think the biggest reason UT3 attracted casuals was the graphics, which QL also fails to deliver in. That's not as big an issue, though, since even Doom 2 has more players than all the Quake games combined.

"You can't have both ends of the spectrum in one game. The best QL can hope to be is a less-than-hardcore professional game, or a moderately-fun casual game."

Why? Are you saying quake can't be fun for casuals/beginners and at the same time be played on pro level? I must've done something wrong then, cause I remember quake3 being fun when I started playing.

Quake 3 is a moderate game, just like QL. Q3 isn't really built for professional play, isn't exactly balanced at a professional level, and isn't structured in a way that a newbie can enjoy himself.

imbalances are constantly fixed, if you have a standard platform. what do you mean by "isn't structured"?

You can't fix the balance of VQ3 without greatly altering the game. Jibo has already pioneered the destruction of any sort of interesting gameplay Q3 had.

The structure refers to the 1v1 focus.

jibo still gets trashed by cypher who has a spectacular style of play so that point is moot. if anything it proves that q3 supports different styles of play, which is one of the things that makes quake great.

also 1on1 is pretty much the last thing ql should be focusing on.

Still can't finish a post without having to edit it?

And since when were you able to get Counterstrike for free? If you weren't buying the boxed copy, you had to pay for Half Life in the first place, which had the advantage of being a fantastic game in its own right.

That's correct, but when CS was just a mod, people weren't buying HL just for CS. Most people didn't know about it because it wasn't that big.

You should really try to get your thoughts together to make one post instead of editing it 3+ times after you make it.

I know it's hard to find any substance for your position, but there's no need to rush.

Quake 4 - Less than 1 million copies sold, no players
Hey! i am there :D

a game for free, from a big company, a big title, with not too high system requirements ... also there is a lot of nice stuff, like a friendslist and profiles where you can look where the other player played and how he placed, what his aim accuracy is and so on, you can see if he is online, message him, also the forums now ...
we are now more connected to each other, much more of a community ... if QL will fail, it means Deathmatch can not compete anymmore ... that's all, than we are just a handful freaks from the dinosaur age of gaming ... the last ones of a dying breed ...
I hope not ... but what can we do if others chose to play wow or cs ...

QL failing doesn't mean the genre is dead, it just means that id doesn't know how to do it right. Again, even UT3 outsold Q4. If UT3 had actually been a finished product and at all polished for professional play, I'm sure it would have taken over the market.

Ut3 did pretty nice sold with ps3 and Xbox360 8)

They already did.. several times. Pay attention.

when?

a closed beta also comes with testing the hardware ressources.
So adding a fixed number of people every now and then is the logical way to go as opposed to just opening the flood gates in an open beta.

When the first batches of invites went out and it failed to keep any players. They injected around 3k invites. After that didn't go so well, even more went out. Another 5k from quakecon, as well.

so? do you really want to tell me giving out a limited amount of invites is the sign of a flood or even open beta???

if you want to stress test you hardware you need to increase the amount of players step by step, plus you also get the bored people who only play for a few days.

Actually, they took away invites from me after I was too slow to hand them out. Clearly not a sign of flooding is it?

The invites are likely slowing down because they realize what a blunder the game will be.

amazing that that dreamache guy actually sounded like an indiot compared to you...

*idiot

yeh, thanks

wow, and to think i had a longass reply typed out and was disappointed when esr ate it for taking too long

thanks for saving me the trouble of having to type it out again

Nice excuse.

what's your excuse for shitposting in every single quake live related thread

I don't need an excuse - I hate id.

so basically nothing rational, just you being filled with impotent rage against a game you don't like and a company you feel 'betrayed' by

I don't feel betrayed - I simply dislike a company that doesn't do it's own work.

You're such a troll.

Nope, not on QL.

i dont, just saying that msot of the sites user base is ridiculous

we're not giving him shit for starting it. We're giving him shit because his site's logo looks like this.

http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=qqakeka6.jpg

qqakeliver?

flamefest over someone trying to benefit the community. you still got it esr

I'm just wondering...

How do you earn money just by traffic alone without any advertising?

it's fantasy money

mom draws it for him.

As mentioned earlier I'm not earning any money from it at the moment because I haven't added any ads to it.... yet. And if I decide to sell it off in the future, that's another way it will earn money.

And for whoever mentioned "ROFL no u dont" in relation to my comment about making $40k a year from a site, I suggest you take a look at http://marketplace.sitepoint.com/categories/p...s-for-sale - sites are going for $100k+'s every day. Learn something about the "internets" before you go making assumptions, kiddo.

Owning quakeliver.com, I of course want to see the game succeed, it means more money for me. But even if it fails miserably like some of you suggestion it will, I still benefited. No hard feelings here.

??

in reality esr is both: #1 quakelive fan site and #1 quakelive hate site

I would say its more like
1) #1 site to discuss ql, aside from the beta forums.
2) It has Vedic to make it the #1 ql hate site. One man army! Although he needs to stop looking like a troll to actually persuade a person yet for his views.

no love without the hate and vice versa

some epic nerd rage from vedic in this thread

he should team up with that 'swarm' guy

lol ye