nice to see the old dm13 back in business

Yes indeed.

dm13!
\o/
what happend to pro-dm13? imo an interesting map :/

hmm i don't like pro-dm13, just like pro-t2...

Indeed.
Pro-t2 and pro-dm13 sucked so nobody played them.

agree

very nice game i still miss t2 in mapcycle tho :D but dm13 is great map

With the current top players skills, t2 tends to be all shaft and all run tho. And it's so "well balanced" that you risk your life if you try to get the other ya. Personally, I'd be the first to cheer its removal from any map lists, coz if my shaft sucks, I know I'll lose the map...

At least on dm13 you can worm around :P and get eat all the food ... and you can play it in more ways than t2.

Still, nothing wrong with having BOTH maps in the list - imagine that, a tourney with more than 4 maps! ;)

its not pacman...

i agree its very much shaft oriented but as is t4 rail oriented.

its only fair for people like cooller who are really good with shaft and have probs with t4 for the map to be included :)

i loved seeing dm13 played tho even if some played real defensive the rocket action was h0t :)

not really. you use other weapons in tourney4 alot more than you do in tourney2.

you can dominate p-t4 mainly with a good plasma or RL, which isn't possible on the original t4.
but if you say, one can't win p-t4 without a decent rail, you're right. your rail doesn't necessarily have to be better than your opponents though.

get ur point but i still think that prot4 is way to much rail oriented and personally i like shaft action more :)

good maps should have areas for all weapons, which probably is the reason for the popularity of ztn or p-dm6.

i think p-dm13 and also p-t2 are made to fit that criteria, and i personally don't understand why those maps aren't played AT ALL.

regular t2 and dm13 are better than the pro versions :)

because they suck :)

100% correct...

so you'd claim that 99,99 % of all q3-duel maps are crap because no1 plays them?

those maps are made for duelling and nevertheless i'd agree that 98% ARE crap, but the others just died out cuz they've never been used regularly in mappools of important tourneys.

You said you don´t understand why these maps aren´t played at all. So I replied cuz they suck, which doesnt say that I claim
that 99,99 % of all q3-duel maps are crap because no1 plays them?

Make sense ...

what maps do you personally miss in current map-pools then? and why aren't they in there?

well its a fact that the HUGE majority of duel-maps aren't played AT ALL. and the only obvious reason is that people are to lazy to learn the maps and then come to the conclusion:

"because they suck :)"

i'd claim if pt2 and pdm13 had been released before t2 and dm13, you'd say the same thing.

my main point is that there are lots of maps are well worth being played in top-level tourneys and imo(!) pt2 and pdm13 are 2 of them.

You´re arguing like: People are too lazy to learn maps so they don´t play them... well great but why do a lot of people play osp8 and ztn then?

no1 played them untill they were in mappools of important tourneys

guess why they were added in mappools of important tourneys....

... and guess why pro-q3dm13 and pro-q3tourney2 are not in mappools of important tourneys...

that's the question that bothers me, remember?

it's not only about p-dm13 and p-t2. these are just maps i'd give a chance in a mappool.

but there is no denial that there are very very good maps out there which were chosen.
imo p-dm6, ztn, p-t4 are excellent duel-maps but i'd simply appreciate it (like i did when ospdm8 was chosen) if there were more cool maps being played on a high level.
and there are more cool maps!

this statement has nothing to do with my previous question..

cuz they ARE good maps, like at least 20 out there that were never chosen although they're at least as good

yea I know they´re good maps. So answer my second question, otherwise your arguing is pointless.

there are tons of excellent maps, the popularity problem is that automatic downloading is still extremely slow.

automatic downloading is very rarely used anyway.
if maps aren't promoted very well, they fail no matter how good they are.

reason for that is the scenes inertia :>

cuz some people or some1 with some idea about maps simply decided to add them to a mappool and thus lots of people got interested in playing them (and needed them to watch the demos!).

in the tourneys nowadays, imo the mappools are chosen by important players and polls. imagine you were a top player with execellent mapknowledge of currently popular maps, and asked to judge a map you played just a few times.

you'd probably say it's no good choice cuz you can't tell for sure if that map suits you. it's about reputation and money here and you'd not like to lower your chances by adding possibly risky maps to the pool.

and as i can tell from my experience in the ctf-scene EVERY new map gets polled out. and new maps only succeed if they are forced in the pool by league admins. when a new mappack was released every played the new maps p.e. in pickup games a lot and some were played very often cuz people liked them a lot but just a few made it in mappools.

as a result people might like it and it will be played next time and probably on other leagues as well, or kicked out after the season (i admit that this might have happend to pt2 or pdm13 also, i'm not sure).

If sucky maps wouldnt be sorted out everyone would pratice a these maps and then suggest them for big tourneys. This just doesn´t happen because people realize the maps that suck and sort them out.

you're right.
but this discussion is about very good maps never being played. forget about pt2 and pdm13 which are just 2 I(!!) would give a chance.

I wouldn´t .
Anyway, if you compare Quake3 to other fps games you have to admit that custom maps aren´t played in other fps games at all or at least rarely.

there are other fps games?!! :o

yes :/

well but there is no apparant reason for that except lazyness.

at this point i'd conclude that a fps scene can sustain a certain number of maps (prolly more players results in more maps being played) which change rarely.

very nice game
though i hate when one person stops trying with 3 minutes left just because theyre down a few frags
really taints the whole game and almost seems like theyre not acknowledging a loss
it may be frustrating but please have some respect for the other player

9:11 mark, score 7:3 and Zamus says "gg". GEEZ. show a little respect for the game.

Yea that was stupid, it was way too early to give up the game.

hes only 16 so give him some time to learn ..

i don't think that's entirely true... dm13 is all defense if u attack u get raped going round corners...

It is entirely true, when you're losing by 4 frags with almost 6 minutes to go, you should not give up.

I thought at the time it might be a cunning psychological ruse, designed to break fox's concentration, but no, he just began playing crap and charging with mg.

I think it has less to do with age and more to do with character.

cunning psychological ruse

I was thinking that on GTV lol... but then again it was 5am here so i was a little tired and living in the hope that Z4muz could beat fox... GO ALL*'s

I know it´s was stupid of me to say "gg" so early, but I was so owned. And he owns @ dm13. So i think I dont have a chance to win this game. gg fox

Yea fox rox no doubt about it, but you were holding your own winning 1-0 until his first frag which led to a few spawn kills.

One mistake from fox could have let you right back in. But anyway well pld dude, you have the skills to beat anybody.

I was actually very pleased when you picked dm13, since there are so few recent duels on it, so cheers to you :)

its fun to see other maps than ztn, pt4, p-dm6! i like that

:)