"Do eggbots have genitals? They are a living testicle actually." :D

Diobotestical > Reborn > Diabotical

Yes, rename it to "Diobotestical". :D

Kinda sounds like "Diablo's testicle".

I really dislike duel mode as it is atm. A 'strong control' of the map can be negated by two rails in a row, depending on which champion is used. The much lower armor/health stacks really rewards aim over tactical play and more specifically railing all game long from distant corners.

Not surprisingly really considering going from 100/0 to 200/200 is a 300% benefit while going from, say, 150/50 to 200/150 as Sorlag is only a 75% benefit.

Even as Nyx, you only get 125% benefit.

Idk, playing Nyx against Sorlag or other tank and super tactical and also very strategical.

Registered: 30 May 2017

And?

2GD can you make your game already please

well, technically he is

It's not like many of the matches in q3/ql that ended with low scores were very fun so why would this be any different.

It's totally not like 2gd has a self interested bias on this matter.. (for what it's worth, qc is pretty shit imo)

If QC does well, it might actually increase his sales. :D

Not just that but another failed arena shooter (not just any shooter but an actual quake game this time) is really going to put the nail in the coffin for the genre

I dont like the Duel mode in QC so I'm not that interested in it right now, but it needs to succeed so that the genre can go on I think. QC failing would probably hurt arena fps the same way that Hitler ruined those tiny little moustaches for everyone

"Id is trying to turn the game into a mindless FPS, just simply pickup weapons and go for a frag"

Well, thats what the general public think when they hear "quake"

would QC be better if railgun was just removed entirely

Quakeworld works just fine without it

my thoughts exactly

and i say this with railgun being my favorite weapon. maybe just need better maps (duel) and it'd be ok staying. hard to say.

I'm wondering if it should be nerfed to 60 or 50 damage per shot. It should be a complement, instead as it is now, even in ql people entirely rely on it.

One shot of it is almost a mega or a red in ql. Top aimers easily lands 4 shots in 20 seconds, the armor and mega spawns less than once in that time.

The aim difference between top players is even bigger than the numbers suggests, because people with lower accuracy tends to shoots less shots, to pick them more and waste more time aiming, while the top players flick every single shot exposing themself a third of the time.

Yeah, i would nerf the damage and maybe slightly increase the speed.

found this on reddit, yep

u/RadoNonreddit :

"I had same thoughts about rail, considering all the low HP chars, and asked SyncError if they had experimented with 70/90 rail. Roughly, his answer was that "they've learned their lessons from QL" and that people liked 100dmg rail and 8 dmg LG and that's what people liked and they aren't nerfing damages again"

Next level retardnes...
People loved BFG, let's put one in every map.
Fuck my life up, fam.

RIP QC 2017-2017

Fuck it. Get rid of all weapons. Replace all with BFG9000 on 1 seconds respawns and infinite ammo!

wait, ain't that instagib?

Probably :)

I think it's better to add some HP/Armour to low HP chars to avoid single rail kills at spawns than nerfing the guns.

Quake 2 rail with that .05 second delay from pressing fire to it coming out.

this shit again...

Id is trying to turn the game into a mindless FPS, just simply pickup weapons and go for a frag

he's over exaggerating. And actually if QC would requiere less brain than Q3 but more aim/dodges/movements, that would be a good thing.

fuck brain, math genius >>>>>> any pro Q3 duel player (even cooller)

Face it, you just want a game with two keys (A and D) and one gun, the LG, in a big flat field. :P

The problem with pure aim is that the best you're ever gonna be is pretty much hardwired into your brain, and no amount of practice is gonna overcome that.

Human beings are known for their intelligence, not their reaction time, so they usually have a greater potential in areas where they can learn things, think, and then apply that.

Without that, people will plateau their aim pretty quickly, and for many, it just becomes boring after that without another area in which they can improve.

I don't know about that, i feel like like my aim is still evolving even in my late 20s, reaction time not so much, true, but despite this i can still make that double door awp reaction shot on dust2 fairly comfortably. Admittedly when it comes to tracking aim, i'm starting to experience a soft cap in tracking or rather i feel like im hitting diminishing returns at around 65% LG avg on Kukkii's training setup. Not sure how he is able to do 70%+ and i'm on a 240hz monitor.

Flick aim on the other hand, i don't think there is a soft plateau for it and can be trained to a ridiculous level, but it also requires a lot more dedication and is very tedious due to endless trial and error.

All things have their limits. :D

I still think aim can be slowly improved over time but it's very hard and you typically need to think more about your hardware setups than anything (low sen, high fps, high hz monitor, low ping, etc) which means it is more about money investments for small improvements.

The real issue is even if aim can be slowly improved it's not fun for most people. Talking about tactics, strategy and teamplay with other players or thinking about it yourself is much different and move involved. This is what players really enjoy but QC has almost nothing for them in those areas. QC is mostly just reduced to execution of hitscan aim.

Yep, another year of hardcore training in the hyperbolic time chamber for another 2% accuracy. :D

Q3/QL already has "brain limited" gameplay that absolutely no significant player could ever overcome even with hundreds hours of practice. There was never in the history of quake a player who started, for example, at medium skill and practiced his way up to contending top players. Every top player was top right from the beginning (after initial learning of the game). Every "amost top" player stayed that way for all their competitive lifetime, never improving; every noob stayed noob forever, and so forth. All evidence tells that as soon as you reach your hardwired limit in Q3/QL, no practice will help you. So what you're talking about is not a problem of quake, it has been its reality for almost 20 years at least.

Orly? Evil was mid-tier player in QL in years. Base did breakthrough to the top only in the last years, while he was not even near this level earlier. Tox really improved his dueling skills in QL last couple of years, who would have thought he could beat Rapha. Fazz really got better in duel, though he still seems to hate it. Baksteen. Et Cetera.

Didn't Base use steroids?

Nope.

i've seen tons of his games, he's just that good.

Evil? Top player from the beginning, winning LANs with cooller/cypher/jibo and other top Russians in early/mid 2000's.

Tox? One of the close-to-top players in Q3, since the beginning, with about 4-5th place normal LAN finish. It's not totally unrealistic that combination of bad games by rapha and good games by tox would end up with rapha losing.

Fazz? Again, lots of 4-5th place LAN finishes in Q3 right away. What about him is unusual?

Backsteen? Who is that?

You're trying to give examples of either one-off statistical flukes that ought to happen in unpredictable world of quake and human psychology, or of people who just took time to get in shape and repeat the same maximum level with which they performed, but not improve above that.

Also, online just brings more randomness and unpredictability, so I only look at LAN results averaged over many LANs as reliable. There are some players who randomly do great online, or even make a surprising win on LAN but averaged maximum LAN skill over several tournaments is always the same and never changes.

http://esreality.com/post/2875031/n-a/#pid2875031

ye, what para said.. evil was top tier in russia but only traveled to a big tourney once or twice... tox was dominating q4 duel like noone had before or after in any quake.. fazz had lots more success in the very early years.

Well, i've been talking strictly about QL. Or, what, your Q4 skills automatically transfer to QL?

Evil was playing QL a lot before he really became good at it. I would say he became active at the second third of QL lifetime and became a real beast in a last third.

Yeah, a top is more or less stable. But its not forever engraved in stone who's on what level, like para said. There are two points of view - coollers ("Somebodys got talent, like me, and somebody not, i'm just instantly good at any FPS") and agents ("There is no fucking talent, only time you invest in the game"). I think the second is right (while you could assume that making yourself work that hard on a improvement is a talent too)

With that said, following that analogy, i don't think a random person could just pick up the piano and become a top level concert pianist no matter the invested time. There are certainly many pre-requisites to be met, but given the optimal or near optimal conditions, i'm positive that sky is the limit IF you put enough time into it.

That's why the word 'talent' is just a platitude. Its all about having the right genes and optimal conditions.

99% of your success in any task is dedication and time spent on honing your skills. Your genes might only affect you if you have some disability. But most people don't have any disabling gene defects, so only time and dedication matters.

Indeed. The limitations of one's body and mind are nothing compared to repetitive practice.
Of course someone who cant sing can develop the best voice ever, of course a dwarf can be the next Michael Jordan and of course people with a subtle, athletic body can become bigger than Arnold without breaking their natty status and someone with a pragmatic brain can make an excellent psychologist.
Same applies to quake, who needs hand-eye coordination, everyone can be at least as good as Cypher with a little practice.

Cmon people, its the >current year.

In general, good voice is only a matter of practice. If you don't practice, you will never sing properly. It's a skill and it's an acquired skill.

Different people have different roles in a basketball game. Height limits some of them, but not all. Muggsy Bogues was quite a successful player at 1.60m.

Bulking up muscle only takes time and dedication and nothing else at all. If you don't have any disabilities which prevent you from lifting, you can bulk without any problems. Anyone can. This is probably the easiest thing to do.

If you don't have good hand-eye coordination then how do you live? Quake doesn't require the best hand-eye coordination or super aim. Look at Cypher, he had shittiest aim for YEARS, but still was dominating the game. Look at Rapha as well, he is technically shit as well. But both of them are very smart. They never go in head to head fights because they will die. Instead they trick their opponents, catch them, make them struggle and once their opponents are weak and tired, they strike and win. You don't need to have some wonderful supreme genetics, stop with this bullshit.

Look at Cypher, he had shittiest aim for YEARS,

wat?

It is his own words

- Oh absolutely, convincing your brain to produce the right tones at the right time is extremely simple. No need for conscious correctures or memorizing, you just practice and... POOF.

- Great point, a shorty who got fairly decent as a point guard sometime in the 90's actually proves anyone can become Michael Jordan.

- Again, I couldnt agree more. Muscles in different bodies have no individual limitations and we all respond to weight lifting properly.
In theory we could all expand our muscles as much as we wanted. Genes stand no fucking chance against proper deadlifts.

- Yea I mean, after Cypher quit Q4 he became notorious for his clunky movement style and one of the shittiest aims in Q3 / QL, I'd even say the shittiest ever. Good for him he never played purely by instinct and could always rely on his perfect timing and positioning.

Agree about the physical tasks (and the aim part in quake), but with regards to singing (or musical performance in general): Practice would obviously include "conscious correctures" and memorizing. You cannot get good at anything if you don't actively review and alter your peformance to make it more like what you want it to be, at least if you start as an adult. Children don't have to do it as consciously, probably because their brains are still developing or something.

And I don't think the the part about "inherent" limits applies not even remotely as much to singing/music/art as it does to sports. They probably do come into play at some point, but at a much higher level. Like, they might differentiate the good professional singers who can live comfortably from it and the great ones that will be remembered in decades to come.

Nah, I'd say the difference between the best and worst singer is about the same as the best and worst footballer. :D

Or any kind of performance art really.

On what scale do you even compare them anyway?

Everyone has their potential, which is what they can achieve if they are in the perfect environment giving them every opportunity they need and undertake the right set of actions in the right order. Indeed this potential can be quite high, and few people ever really reach their potential in anything significant.

Beyond that, what differentiates people's potentials is their starting state.

It doesn't matter how much you train or how you train; you won't run 100m in 5 seconds. So you see you have a limit. And there is absolutely no reason to believe your limits and everyone else's limits are exactly the same. You are physically different beings with different strengths and weaknesses.

Many people have practised hard and long for thousands of hours at a thing they had no real knack for and, in the end, found that they did not get where they wanted to be.

The only real reason to accept this fact is to avoid inevitable disappointment. It's not a reason not to try, but the modern positivity philosophy of "there's no limits" and "everyone is equal" is not actually doing wonders for people's mental health.

I am really curious who teaches these bs (apart from ppl that want to sell books and stuff and make money from the stupidity of the common ppl). The irony is that you need to be smart in order to recognize your limitations, which are huge, compared to what is possible in specific areas from specific talented individuals.

Yeah, you need to be smart. Being dumb is the only real disadvantage. Don't be dumb.

This. Also, "practice" is more complicated that it sounds. You need smart practice. I have clan mates >40 years that have played since quake3, a good amount of hours every day, and have never improved. Then we have a 20er that in 2 years reached the top of the regional LOLCA and started winning duels vs strong players.

Ok, so you think your 80 years old grandmother can sit at the computer and play game for 3-4 years practicing 8h every day to finally be good enough to beat Cypher? If you're saying there is no difference in people abilities there is no reason she couldn't do that. I cannot imagine it. People are not equally talented in every aspect and you can't achieve anything without practice, but practice is usually not enough to be on top.

Idk about 80 years granny and Quake, but there's a guy, who started training bicycle trials at 40+ and got quite good in a few years. And bike trials are SUPER hard to learn. Trust me, I tried.

Well, it's actually a fusion from those two statements, which was made by Wendel, if I am not mistaken, who said that the more talent you have, the less time investment needed to reach certain level an the other way around. But with any given proportion that level is reachable.

I heard even Agent has gotten better at using guns like LG(overall aim improvement)! And I think people are saying he's currently a wonderful player in QC(??). I hope so! I also hope that QC ends up with a 'classic' duel mode and that it's popular enough to get some 'new blood' top level players. :D

No offense to the standard-issue top players that we've had for many years, of course, but I can't see a scenario where having even more players at that level becomes a bad thing and seeing new, great names is always exciting.

Yeah, the stability in QL top was not because the skill of the whole humanity have been decided once and for all, like para says. But because the scene was very, very tiny.

In China they select 10 000 from the millions of chinese kids to become chess pupils. Then they select 100 from these 10 000. And each of this hundred will become chess-elite and receive full-scale support from the government so they probably become super-GM in future.

So, while QL popularity wasn't that big, we had as many top players as it gets.

by which factors do u decide whether that super-gm wasnt more eligible to begin with

So what you are saying is either it takes very little time to learn all that there is to know about Quake if you are one of these people, or that learning those things does not help you win so you may as well not learn them.

Explain what you mean by saying Quake is "brain limited"?

I see aim as a huge limiting factor in Quake, and if you can't use your brain much to overcome your limitations in that area, then you can't win.

Of course, there is a hardwired limit in just about everything. The only question is how long it takes you to reach it.

We're not talking about a problem with Quake anyway, but a potential problem with QC.

I played like crap in Q1, I got a bit better during Q2 days and not much in Q3. But I invested quite a lot of time in QL and improved my skills A LOT. So idk what you're talking about...

Like we all, man, like we all.

If you draw a graph of ur improvement it will almost repeat the graph of hardware improvement from 96 to nowadays (especially, when it comes to mouses).

I never had gaming hardware, I played on laptops with Intel hardware most of my life. I only bought high end gaming system last October. All this awesome metal and plastic didn't provide any skill boosts at all. Just a nice image which I truly enjoy.

Yeah, bro. Accurate mouse, high frame rate, big screen, low input lag, low ping, they all make no difference to your performance at all.

This is my mouse actually, and I hit 50% LG all times:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/common...100-86.jpg

My aim is still shit, like 20-30%. But I've found ways to evade enemy.

When I played on shitty laptop with shitty mouse I had ~27% LG.
With good mouse and pc and monitor I can get 30-40% depending on how nooby the noobs are.

Good for you, but my aim is shit and was always shit. That doesn't stop me from winning. Aim alone doesn't win the match.

Only when it doesn't, but when it does - it does c]:-)

Sacrifice + CTF maps would be terrible.

how come?

2 bases 1 mid with proper choke points to hold & push
Equal in pickups (weapons, health, armor,...)
Separated spawn locations, easier for organize the team
Heavy champions have a chance to shine

How this worse than playing this mode on a TDM maps, random spawn = random weapon, domination of light champions, no strategy require but staying & rushing together?

There a multiple dimensions to a CTF map but consider these: Bases heavily favour the defender & defending team; Most of the spawns of Team A will be in Base A; Bases often have very limited entrances/exits; These entrances/exits often choke into one main artery. More so, I am imagining the game going like this:

1. Game starts, players fight until soul spawns.
2. Soul spawns, and Team A grabs it, and the carrier takes the path of least resistance;
3. Team A acquire OBS-A.
4. Team A turtle into OBS-A base.
5. Team B attack, kill all of Team A.
6. All of Team A respawn around Team B OR All of Team A respawn in mid.
7. Team B dies, and respawn in their base or mid (where they die).

The only reason it works in CTF is because there are two players (attackers) which are forced to leave the base (to get the enemy flag). Once you get your OBS you have no reason/incentive to leave it. Sacrifice with CTF maps will just turn into "who gets the soul to the OBS first" because I cannot imagine any reason why a base can be broken when there are two teams of equal or similar skill. Remember you cannot swoop the flag here like CTF, you need be in an extremely vulnerable position (enemy OBS), and wait until you get the soul back (delayed pickup).

TDM maps in comparison are a lot more dynamic, and will not allow teams to turtle up in the same way. If you guys wanna try one flag + delayed pickup + CTF maps... you're gonna have a bad time :)

All of those things you mention can be changed to fit the game, no problem :

(Note: below are separated ideas)

1) Reverse the capture system, take the Soul OUT is instantly while put the Soul IN requires standing in the capture zone for a short time

-Now team B can jump in, grab the flag and run, or kill team A and run to mid before they spawn (i bet even Clutch can do that in 5 secs)
-Because capturing the Soul take time, team A can rush to steal it back

2)Respawn time: Attacking team 3 secs, Defending team 5 secs

3) Changing the Scoring system:

Instead of holding the Soul for 2 mins to win, using score to slow the game down
-First team capture will receive 1 point
-After that, every capture will give the team 2 points
-If the OBS reach 100% charge (1 min), defending team receive 1 point
-10 mins match

So it means that, the attacker has max 60 secs to organize and push, while the defender has only 1 point ahead

4)Quad, Protection on mid to blow turtling away
-If team A wants to stop team B, they have to move forward, allow team B to sneak up some Nyx or Anarki and scoop the Soul away

5)Team Soul :
-After capture, the attacking Team will OWN the Soul (it changes color to Red or Blue). The other team can't pick it up anymore
-Dropped Soul will take 10 secs before teleport back to defending team OBS (Pick it up won't reset the time)

So even if team A can block mid and kill the flag runner, they still can't pick it up and run back to their base, allow team B to rush it after spawn

________________________________

I don't deny that Sacrifice on TDM maps isn't fun to play, I probably don't care about the mode if it just an alternative mode

But Tim wants Sacrifice to be the "main" game mode of QC and even reachs the "e-sports" level

But with the "main" concept: TDM (FFA-style) with object, it can't be

I think that idea with instant soul spawns and slow soul inserting is a very good idea. Right now teams have plenty of downtime waiting for it and just running circles around the map. Downtime is always a bad idea, because players get less focused on the game and slowly start losing interest.

If the soul spawns instantly after match start and every insertion, then it will remove downtime and force teams to clash in a meaningful way. Slow insertion times will force players to improve their teamplay and will reduce downtime even more. Because right now if your teammate got soul you can just relax most of times. The only real gameplay is a fight for soul, everything else is mostly a downtime.

I also think this change will appeal to both new players and spectators. Spectators will get non-stop action and more players will be grouped in closer areas, so there will be more stuff to watch, easier to comment and action will be more intense. For newbies this change will make Sacrifice less confusing. Because my first games of Sacrifice were super confusing and I'm playing id games since Wolf3D, lol. You just don't understand what to do exactly, where the soul will spawn, etc. Your idea will make Sacrifice a lot easier to get into.

So yeah, great idea! I hope someone from id/beth will read it and implement it. There are three reasons for devs to do that:

1. Better gameplay for vets and competitive players.
2. Easier for newbies to understand and start playing.
3. A lot more interesting to spectate, watch and easier to do commentary.

Three rabbits killed with one stone!

they need to have ranks in this game

instead of global elite your title is vadrigar veteran