Diabotical has too cpmish movement, so its dead before release. Same as reflex, warsow, xonotic,.....

Diabotical movement isnt finalised and they've worked on making it less of an obstacle to learn

Very few people know what the movement looks like right now as gameplay is being worked on behind closed doors, but last that was said publicly is that he didnt like reflex/cpma movement and wanted something with less air control

None of the cpm movement tricks have ever been in the game, I dont imagine they are now, and nothing in it as it was last shown is any more difficult than vq3 movement

Im not talking about difficulty level of movement. Im talking about people disliking aircontrol generally. At least thats my impression

The amount of people who have a preference concerning air control is hopefully going to be a small amount compared to the target market size for diabotical

People who like or dislike air control are people in the very small arena fps community and I think the goal is to attract people from outside this bubble

Though as I said, its air control in the last shown piece of public content was far less than reflex, warsow, xonotic or cpma

cs:go has air control and it's more popular than anything from arena genre

yes, but its useless. It was good for bhopping, but we all know that ended in people whining and valve making it impossible

so what, people don't mind it. if anything more people are familiar with bunnyhopping that strafejumping.

youre right, i think diabotical should go for cs movement :D

ninjaedit

the general population definitely prefers air control, what? maybe not your average vq3 player here, but i assure you most casual/occasional arena shooter players would prefer a game with air control

there's so many other shitty things about cpm and as to why it failed in comparison to vq3/ql, to name a few of the many:

--it's a mod, not official quake and never will be --main reason

--ridiculous accelration/deceleration makes lg/aim battles in general almost as random as UT

--difficult to master movement with all of the little tricks make it even less approachable to noobs at a glance (even though in a 1v1 setting it's low key easier to pickup)

i mean let's be honest, best case scenario diabotical will be shadowed by QC as reflex is shadowed by QL, so let's just all hope it's not shit

yeah, simple air control movement worked well in painkiller. all 17 of its players said they definitely preferred it.

The only thing holding it back was the netcode
:^)

in all honesty, a game that cannot be played online because of how bad the netcode is, will of course fail in online multiplayer. I remember Painkiller being very enjoyable singleplayer, but i also remember how the online multiplayer was just unplayable thus killing that part off quickly.

"--ridiculous accelration/deceleration makes lg/aim battles in general almost as random as UT

--difficult to master movement with all of the little tricks make it even less approachable to noobs at a glance (even though in a 1v1 setting it's low key easier to pickup)"

Registered: 9 Jan 2015

low quality bait and i really could give a fuck about the first point (cause UT is an inferior fps across the board) but you really think the second point about the nuances of cpm's retarded movement isn't worth mentioning as at least slightly off putting? CPM is a pretty unapproachable game, and it's just a watered down Quakeworld to actual Quakers. If it was appealing to even a slight minority of newer players, Reflex wouldn't be so dead.

BTW please bring up my registration date as if I wouldn't dunk on you in CPM or VQL duel

You're bulging your veins about cpm, and "actual Quakers" in 2016. I'm not sure if you're trolling or living under a rock but merry christmas anyway.

I just wanted a Christmas argument man :(

you think i care about when i registered? i'm not wrong; accel/deceleration when adad spam is too fast to accurately track in gunfights and is pseudo-random like ut dodging, and cpm is 100% low key easier to pickup in a 1v1 setting because it rewards gunplay more than vq3, which is a skillset someone is more likely to have when initially playing the game

i'm not bringing up the vq3 vs cpm argument cause its a hopeless argument, nor am i saying 1 is easier than the other, but you really can't deny those two points...

feel free to stay salty i guess hehe

>accel/deceleration when adad spam is too fast to accurately track in gunfights
>cpm is 100% low key easier to pickupin a 1v1 setting because it rewards gunplay more than vq3


rofl? so it's too fast and easier to pick up the same time. Your "points"... never mind. Good luck ;)

in a 1v1 setting, yes, it's easier to pick up initially

map control/timing is less important due to tiered armors compared to vq3...skillsets that are not aquired in other games at all, therefore putting more of an emphasis on your dm skills...skills that someone new to quake will probably have compared to map control/timing

i'm not talking about team modes where your dm skills are even more important than 1v1, obviously cpma has a higher mechanical skill ceiling

why are you arguing with me? are you that retarded or something lol, this is pretty basic shit

map control/timing is less important due to tiered armors compared to vq3

If you think map control matters less in cpm due to tiered armors, I suggest you watch some reflex. Reflex has tiered armor, but all that really matters is how you set up your rotation. Personally I think that makes the game less deep than CPM or QL, where traps are much more important (and yes, traps do actually work just as well in CPM as in QL, just watch Vo0 on 3a). Running in a circle for 10 minutes doesn't exactly scream deep gameplay to me.

i'm not getting into this cpm/vq3 argument, i'm not saying what's easier/harder/more deep when played at a high level, i suggest you re read what i said

i'll give you a hint on where to start:

in a 1v1 setting, yes, it's easier to pick up initially

1v1 setting it's low key easier to pickup

you're an idiot if you can't see the lack of punishment in cpm at lower levels in comparison to vq3; if you had a beginner vs an intermediate player and if the beginner stole 1 red , he has a much higher chance of regaining control in cpm than in vq3 because that 1 armor provides much more value than it would in vq3

oh ye, misread you, sorry

as i recal 2dg said diabotical wont have cpmish movment.

movement and gameplay have nothing to do with a game's success nowadays

reflex is as valid as any other game it's just empty of features that make up a competitive title

diabotical has the chance to make something reflex did completely wrong, kickstarter and release... because first impressions do matter...

I am not gonna join the QC theorists tho because I've never trusted ID... we'll see about that game.

counterpoint: Rocket League

imagine there were 15 rocket leagues out there and each of those had different communities where they'd just bash each other mechanics because those "aren't like the ones we have", or something like that, because it's pretty much what happens in this site.

that's what i am saying, everyone plays rocketleague because there is ONE rocketleague, if there was a better rocketleague with almost no social features and so on, nobody would play it even if it had a better movement system...

In other words, a random person who enjoys videogames won't fucking notice whether one of these games have this or that movement but they'll instantly notice about all the features that online games must have for a proper online experience... AFAIK, no quake game has ever archieved this so far (Steam integration is just the surface).

The game just has to be decent in almost every aspect and brilliant in a few.

Not sure people play Overwatch solely because it has a ladder system

p sure numbers increase in competitive play as soon as they open a new season, it doesn't mean it will make more people play the game... it makes sure most of your playerbase stays active..

That is literally the only reason I play it. Dota 2, CSGO have each grabbed me at one point because they have a ranked ladder and I dont like the gameplay of any of those games

But matchmaking is convenient as fuck and its fun to see what rank you are

sadly, it is fun to hop into OW to find a relatively balanced match almost instantly.

i played a lot of QL and TF2, hemming and hawing over which server to join in the browser, joining an in progress game which is an absolute landslide, meh. seems quaint now.

if DB or QC has a matchmaker and ranked, i'd definitely switch games.

Diabotical is the only hope we have for a successful new title.
The wannabes of the recent years are already pretty much done and QC will be a failure, because it's nothing like the Quake genre has been and the market which they are trying to enter is already full and have an established player base.

id should just stop what they are doing, like they should have done even before they announced QC and go back to the drawing board to make a real Quake not a FPS moba.

You have two opposing opinion in the same post.

Diabotical is trying not to be like quake to that degree that it replaced player models with eggbots. They are implementing new gimmicks that will be fresh and distinctive, potentially attracting new players.

Be that as it may, you're still clinging on to the idea that Diabotical is doing it right whilst condemning QC for being "different".

Third of all, you want a REAL Quake and let me burst your bubble for a bit - people like you, eagerly anticipating another real quake-like game are in for a treat. Your game exists, the broader audience doesn't enjoy it as much as you THINK it should. Just because you found your niche it doesn't mean it's the holy grail of gaming nor that it has the appeal to attract masses. You are "alone" in this (I'm talking sub 10.000 players alone) and no matter how hard you want to convince yourself that you're playing a real game, it doesn't make it any less silly from an outsiders view.

The problem actually arises elsewhere.

Hypothetically you are in charge of making a real quake. Now do the math, how many real players would enjoy playing YOUR version and not their version? How many would think you're a complete buffoon for sprinkling your subjective sense of realness?

We cannot agree on weapon damage, we went completely berserk when id slightly changed DMG setting like knockback. We were utterly dismayed when there was a tiny physics change.


Honestly for all I care "real" quake doesn't exist because it all boils down to "when I was your age, my quake had XY" argument. Just people one upping each other and bickering without realising .... there's just a handful of us.. we are almost microscopic as a gaming community... there's no interaction between players, a gathering spot, something to talk about...


That's how REAL our game is right now. Do we want more of it?

thanks for a bit of common sense

I don't really understand why you made a "reply" post as you're basically writing your own thing and assigning to me positions and statements which I have not taken or made.

I have never said anything about "real Quake". I don't know what that is and I'm not really in position to make any statements since I have not really played the first two installments at all.

My point is that what is central here is that id is stepping away from the competitive 1v1 arena FPS setting and stepping into the fully saturated "hero/abilities/whatfuckingever" market which has been totally locked down by major developers for years now. Dota and LoL and the other n+1 analogues and now the FPS mobas are already well established.

Weapons, movement ... it is all secondary if even that. The main thing is that all are equal at the get go. Everyone is exactly the same.

What is missing is a new 1v1 game, which Diabotical will try to be and what id has missed and probably.

New generations have not had any experience with actual established titles from the arena fps genre, because everything that is decent is almost 20 years old and morally not to mention technologically lapsed. Id could have forwarded the new coming of the genre here but they chose to take another path which will likely lead to another failure.




p.s "First of all" is kind of determinable, "second of all" is not.

and then reflex comes, which isn't half as good as ql, with a tiny player base and says "come aboard"... hahahahahaha hahahaha

btw I agree

Looking forward to the development of Diabotical and QC the most!

Although hopefully 250 fps with correct sound in Quake Live before they drop it fully :p

Heard that brother. Tried to play on 125fps because I was getting sick of missing sounds but it looks so bad

If you're referring to missing step sounds, you can go up to 200fps. That's not too bad.

Feels like I'm missing steps, jump pads and teles, but not sure if I'm actually out of range and just being paranoid

I'll try 200, thanks

If you happen to be recording when that happens, then you can know for sure afterwards if the sound was really played or not. You could then compare that to the demo (with cg_wh on) and see if it should have played or not.

Backed the diabotical kickstarter, first kickstarter I ever backed. But 2gd is worth it and I'm really looking forward to it. I also have some friends who haven't really played arena fps since rocket arena who are looking forward to it, mostly because 2gd is behind it. Since dota2 became super popular everyone knows who he is.

I bought reflex, because I was looking for something to play and ~$20 sure why not lol.

QC could be cool, will not pre-order or anything like that but I will probably buy it unless it turns out to be a complete fuck up.

Overall I'm mostly just looking forward to some hopefully fun and NEW arena FPS games.

Most of you need to realize the exact game that you want already exists (QL, CPMA, QW), and you just need to play it ;)

it feels awkward agreeing with you :D

Yeah but I'm shallow as fuck and honestly just want a change of scenery with some new models, graphics, maps, players etc.

Kinda why I decided to try reflex when I might as well just have stuck to ql/cpm/defrag for free.

partly agree but our eyes need something refreshing/new. No QC is no serious option since bethesda will do anything to keep the hardcore quake fans away (similar to d.trumps behavior). QC wont be quake. It just uses the quake name but it wont be quake.

On the other hand some new features may be interessting. e.g. some complete new movement skills...

Nice meme.

u wot m8? best meme of all times.

QUAKE CHAMPS > ALL

FUCK THE REST OF YOU FAKE ARENA FPS FANS

QUAKE CHAMPS IS THE KING WE WIL WIN

y caps? missing morning spliff?

*hits tha blunt*

im calm now bruh =]

i be buggin

AGENT

It doesnt look like ut with heros (qc)

what do you know??? shut up putting this illogical onions on the thread =]

Diabotical looks pretty refreshing as it strays from "traditional arena shooters."

The game is only as good as the community that backs it. Everyone wants to run to the next thing and are completely hung up on the actual outcome because it doesn't fit their bill.

Learn the new mechanics, it keeps the genre fresh, if the movement is what bothers you, then remember the days when you had to learn how to play quake 1, 2, 3 etc. The only reason I started with Quake was because of all the movement mechanics and little nuances that it involves.

Get with the times you whiny little bitches and enjoy the fact that people are actually making an effort to carry on creating niche shooters that aren't heavily team orientated.

We all know team based games are vastly more popular as well. I mean you don't even have to go on to twitch to notice it.

Keep shit classy arena shooter people, maybe, and if maybe the arena base shooter players start making content on Youtube it'll garner the rep that the original fps games should deserve and you could effectively generate new player interest.

i think diabotical Will be great with lobbys that are actually a map features, where you can also prolly test your skills a little.

A true nursery for cummunitys and spam fest

is this going to be another thread where cpma type people try to convince everyone that newbies (to "arena shooters") love air control?
admit you're just salivating at the opportunity to abuse it against newbies, has nothing to do with ideal gameplay or the potential community - you just want to fly around at 9000 ups and "rape teh noobz lol, git gud".

stick to posting funny pictures, dude

nope

air control (specially with autohop) is easier to teach to noobs than strafe jumping.

As long as only holding W is effective.

I've had easier time teaching people how to move and fly around in warsow than in QL. Press left and turn left is not really a hard concept.

Those who can - do.
Those who can't - teach...


















...and ask those who can to team up with them.

You're just a pawn in a greater strategy. Hush ;)

Is holding W in QL effective? I was under the impression that it wasn't.

IIRC sponge put it in, but the effect was quite small on overall movement speed.

i didn't really mean it wasn't easy to learn, just that complete newbies will be put off by people blasting around the map, they're not going to pick up the movement right away however easy it is.
it seems to take them a while to even get the hang of moving forward/strafing left and right while switching weapons instead of heading to the nearest corner and selecting the sniper rifle+scope.

at least strafe jumping puts a limit on movement speed however good you get at it

Isn't this going down the old "matchmaking doesn't have people with uneven skills play together" route?

teaching complete noobs is a waste of time anyways. Either they have some fps experience and can transfer basic skill, or have to grind for the basics first

People have been saying this for years, but it has never, ever worked. Not once. That fact shows it is false.

Warsow is dead. CPMA is dead. Reflex is dead, to the point even the project leader (newborn) left the team. Nexuiz, Xonotic, Painkiller, Sauerbraten, World of Padman; all dead.

Just understand that gameplay is the recipe for a dead game. We don't need anymore of those, but a game with players.

if you think air control is the reason they are all "dead" you are even more of a fucking mong than i thought

why did you put dead in quotation marks? it's true, no doubt about it

because you touch yourself at night

Newborn didn't leave because people weren't playing the game.

Shows how much you know.

Doesn't matter that I'm not an insider (neither you are). What matters is that Reflex is dead, just like every single fast paced FPS with air control.

Yeah, that's why QL is alive and kicking, because they omitted air control. Serious lack of brain power in this thread.

None of them had a proper push: they were indie games without marketing budgets (Overwatch hype hello), mods in a dead community or in general had terrible artstyles and were lacking in features. They all had to fight for dwindling player base in the shadow of Quake. Of course they are dead, Quake is dead also. For new players it doesn't matter if it's one or the other - game mechanics or gameplay hardly matters when it comes to popular games as long as you have something for the retards to do. DOTA has noob and "pro" heroes, same for Overwatch. They both look much more appealing also.

Previous paragraph ties into with my post here: http://esreality.com/post/2839107/re-thorin-s...pid2839107

And most likely the whole genre arrived before it's time. If you look which directions latest Call of Duties or Overwatch have gone then the average dumb population will eventually be "skilled" enough to accept those. CS:GO (earlier cods also) has bunny-hopping, not big part of game play but people still know it's there and understand what it is. Defrag type of mods and games are getting slowly more popular in the more popular games.

And I don't really understand what you want to say with your last sentence, you might have accidentally a word there. I don't really care if any of these new games flop. I would say that there wouldn't be a difference if QC had bunny-hopping or strafe jumping - they have equal probability of success. Bunny hopping is just easier to learn.

How about Painkiller then. That game had a world tour and even appeared on MTV, when it was still popular, and still nothing.

Reflex was promoted in Kotaku and in many of the most popular gaming sites out there. It had much more publicity than QL, yet people stopped playing.

The current Unreal Tournament is backed by Epic Games, one of the big names in the industry. The game was advertised everywhere, and no one plays it.

People.get bored fast of playing Arena shooters that offer nothing more than simple yet fast movement and gameplay. No content whatsover, only focusing in the same CPM like gameplay. Unless the "Arena" games approach changes then they will remain unpopular. The first step to do that is to stop making games that only offer air control on small maps, because people demand more and new stuff to do than replaying a Quake clone.

What are we arguing here about now? The whole thing started from the premise that "strafejumping is somehow better than bunnyhopping" while it is not - they both have same impact on the popularity. I don't see anyone claiming that aircontrol solely will save "the mighty arena genre". I see aircontrol just as a possible feature accompanied by many other features.

Also, each of your examples can be applied to Quake Live.

Painkiller - happened before gaming was accepted in mainstream culture, happened before there was twitch and before there was youtube. Lived in the shadow of Quake 3. Quake Live when it was on IEM was also just before twitch or when games realized how to promote their live events.

Reflex - Quake Live has had the most media coverage of them all by far by just being Quake. Your reflex argument is a just a swing.

Epic's primary goal is to promote Unreal Engine 4 not UT. UT is just a side-project that has been in beta for ages and lacks features. Most likely it's just to showcase their engine. Why are you even mentioning UT right now?

Quake Live - dead.

I agree that the current form of bare bones arena game-play is not appealing compared to what is out there - there is too little content/mechanics handed out "for free" (without having to learn them for long time) and are too abstract (meta game, strats, timing etc.).

I see and agree. Instead of aircontrol, the problem is that the Arena gameplay is way too bare bones.

Maybe it's a coincidence that all FPS with air control happened to be of the Arena genre, unrealistic and simple, whereas there's many games with regular strafe jumping that have more to offer and more variety.

Besides Quake series which games have regular strafejumping?

but qw is still alive and kicking ass :D

diabotical vs reflex (vs qc)

so it's settled: warsow wins

Warsow's Bomb mode actually is the most fun you can currently have in the genre.

i wasn't joking, i used to like playing it

ITT: contrived delusions about gameplay determining a game's popularity.

we need painkiller movement with a stakgun and some lovecraftian style.. fk it painkiller 3 please

sorry. only lovecraft:

nice, that was wicked, interesting.

Those environments are the most Giger thing I've ever seen that wasn't Giger.

How about they have air control, but only when the player has the gauntlet out?

Quake Champions will be a success there is no doubt. Quake community is just 3% of scene that QC might have. Quake community should support them more instead of trash talk. Tbh I cant wait to try and play QC. I will be sure pre-ordering this game in first day of its announcment.

C A R E E M
A
R
E
E
M

.

Don't pre-order if you want the game to succeed.

Why should the Quake community support a title that's gonna be "a success there is no doubt" anyway. Better support Diabotical, Reflex or even more niche things.

I will be sure pre-ordering this game in first day of its announcment.

You know, in the digital age there is no benefit in pre-ordering to you as a customer except the risk of having paid for a product which might dissapoint you at final release.

As a hordcore quaker, I thought I am gonna play beta/alpha QC before new year. I am a little bit disapointed.. no leaks, no new news, no screenshots, no new videos .. no any info at all.. in other hand, my wife is realy happy about it. pluse I need new pc, so 1070/1080 getting cheaper and cheaper day by day :)

"no leaks, no new news, no screenshots, no new videos .. no any info at all.."

Doesn't that just mean they actually have good management? ;)

tbh i prefer them to keep it as closed as possible until it is polished and only then do an open beta or something so the hype starts when the game is actually done... Even if the game looks awesome atm it probably needs a bunch of features to keep players coming back and what not. Be patient my "hordcore" quaker.

Thats just a receipe for disappointment. Considering the pace of development and the update videos, its impossible they can release something within the year that wows the audience.

I'm already disappointed so if the game comes out and it's dead i couldn't care less, that's where i am atm.