No, how will the spectators on twitch know what weapon you're holding out of all those 1 weapons your hero can hold?

:DDDDDD

++++++++++

which direction is the timer in shitwatch?

alt + F4 hides the weapon

- heartlesss - Today at 22:23
Hello Zan ! I have one question : will it be possible the hide the gun in future OW patch(es) ? Considering the fact that it's already possible to do it in games like Team Fortress 2, the new Unreal Tournament, the new DOOM, and some older games with fast-paced gameplay like OW, like the Quake series or Reflex and so on... And it's already possible to change the FOV and crosshair so why not adding a bit more weapons customizations ? Also, I think that it could be a nice addition to make it possible to put the weapon either on the left or center of the screen, which is already possible in the Counter-Strike series. That's all :), thank you !

- Zan - Today at 22:24
Thats unlikely at this point. tbh

- heartlesss - Today at 22:26
:o
Ok :D Thank you

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- heartlesss - Today at 22:21
Hello GriffinWB ! I have one question : will it be possible the hide the gun in future OW patch(es) ? Considering the fact that it's already possible to do it in games like Team Fortress 2, the new Unreal Tournament, the new DOOM, and some older games with fast-paced gameplay like OW, like the Quake series or Reflex and so on... And it's already possible to change the FOV and crosshair so why not adding a bit more weapons customizations ? Also, I think that it could be a nice addition to make it possible to put the weapon either on the left or center of the screen, which is already possible in the Counter-Strike series. That's all :), thank you !

- GriffinWB - Today at 22:23
Hey! Seeing your gun is part of the immersion of Overwatch. Anything is possible in the future but we have nothing to announce now. Switching left/right is fun idea but if the heroes are left/right handed in the story, should we allow you to switch?
We appreciate the feedback!

- heartlesss - Today at 22:24
Thank you again! :)

so far , 2 answers from blizzard's team @ discord

fast-paced gameplay like OW

funny guy

not as fast as quake but some heroes are actually fast like tracer or soldier76

and ground accel is pretty high, higher than in quake afaik

and faster than doom :)

Ground accel doesn't matter though if you don't have air accel :o)

All that circle jumping magic in Quake/Source engines is caused by friction or the lack thereof. This is why slick surfaces (no friction) gives you a ton of speed and why Doom 4 with strafe jumping enabled looks wonky when turning in ground (too much friction).

- Vorgestellt - Yesterday at 23:48
Thanks for the feedback, will pass it on!

there is hope \o/

Actually that means no, haha. I use the same tactic all the time in my job when trying to let users down easy that their suggestion will never, ever be implemented :)

We will crush that optimism out of you eventually.

I'm also certain that the feedback was never passed on. At all.

Passed straight to the bin.

It wasn't even passed to the brain.

PART OF THE IMMERSION :O

Basic logic. An option to make the weapon invisible for interested parties hurts the immersion of the player. However, seeing the same hero used by multiple players at the same time in one match surely does not.

I wonder wtf, this has to be one of the most non-competitive statements out there.

Part of ow immersion is a gun that blocks 1/4 of your screen mate

:D

Translation: we don't want to give players the option of doing it because it adds too much of a learning curve and makes it harder to know what gun you have out.

OW is here. Time to stop living in 2001 and get with the program. glhf!

15 years later there no way im going to a less deep game, please go live in the future by not posting anymore on esr, thanks.

At the same time, Quake pros such as Cooller and Cypher have gone pro full time at Overwatch already and they can't touch the top 3 of their respective regions, despite coming from an allegedly more complex game. Also Cypher tried going pro at CSGO and totally failed at it; couldn't reach amateur level.

Different games have different skills required. Quake duel is not more complex than any other game, nor more skillful.

Same can be said about any activity. After all that is why both of those players are unemployed: they suck at the game of life.

Is there a ladder or something?

In Soviet Russia job is looking for you.

Fixed for you:

At the same time, Quake pros such as Cooller and Cypher will play the game for the money but will soon realise that the skill compression is so bad that there won't be much separating their play in the game to that of an amateur and move on to a better method of making money.

I know how easy it is to make these kind of typos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

They can't beat the best. Never, ever. Either the top 3 EU are always lucky or quakers aren't better than the TF2/CSGO/MOBA players beating them.

And in Cooller's words, he moved to Overwatch because he couldn't find a job better than being a car salesman. Guess the so called virtual chess was simpler than having a real life career

Wrong. He could have found a better job easily, but the game of life was not challenging enough to his superior quake-trained intellect.

so bitter, let it go, youre so wrong it isnt even funny, a less deep game levels the field so obviously they dont shine like in quake, you just always try to shit on quake and quake players, dont even know why you spend time posting here, youre life must be pretty sad, as i said let it go, youre insignificant next to the game, you wont succeed in killing it, move on yourself completely as in gtfo of esr and stop saying what we have to do, cunt.

He's stating facts. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see former quake pro's dominate OW and take the game to the next level. So far they haven't been able to compete tho. "

a less deep game levels the field so obviouslythey dont shine like in quake

Ok so they can't shine, but why can't they win?

Also lmao @ telling anyone who disagrees with u to leave ESR. Some solid interpersonal skills right there :P

U must be a newbie, megaman3 has years of experience coming here to shit on quake and quake players.

Did I write anything untrue? Nope.

Have you tried Overwatch? Neither

I've summed up what I'm trying to say in this professionally made graphic (you will have to be patient while this masterpiece gets approved):

99% of your comments here are shitting on quake and quake players? Yes.

Could you stop dodging the questions and facts, and answer directly to them?

rofl how could I be trying to kill Quake by posting on a website read by 20 powerless people. Quake died because people moved to other games, that's all. One of them is OW -the topic in discussion-, as for example all but one QL top player have switched to OW already.

Youre so sick you answer a shitting quake and quake players accusation by shitting on quake and quake players. Thanks for proving my point.

keep dodging. truth hurts i guess

Note I have not played the game myself, only seen footage of various "high level" matches, so this is not a super well researched opinion, but I doubt one can express anything better at this point.

First let me tell you a story. Starcraft: Broodwar was a highly regarded RTS game with a strong competitive scene with commercial baking. It had prodigies like Flash and Jaedong, both held to an extremely high esteem. Then Starcraft 2 was released and due to a disagreement between Blizzard and KESPA, star players were NOT switching over. Instead, Starcraft 2 was only played by "scrubs" like b-teamers who could not make it in SC:BW. Since the Blizzard vs KESPA conflict was coming to an end, progamers were officially transitioning over to SC2. Plenty of people expected that stars like Flash will absolutely demolish everyone else, but that never happened. Flash (and Jaedong) were good in terms of competitive skills, but were not at the absolute top and definitely were not dominating. This is where people learned that, well, not all skills nor talent fit a different game.

With this in mind I see why people would have big expectations of quakers switching over, but also don't see why would they be guaranteed to dominate. Not only OW is a very different game, it is team-based, while quakers you mention here are duellers. If anything, I would expect them to be behind high level TF2 players. I don't even see what kind of edge can they have over CS:GO players - combat seems to mostly revolve around hitscan weapons, there is also crap like headshots. One could argue for experience with projectiles.

One has to also mention the talent pool. Quek scene is several times smaller than any of the above. Just think about all these people who could be tox + rapha combined, but simply have not even played the game. If they play anything, it is more likely they stick to TF2 or CS:GO.

I can name several players who switched from competitive Warcraft 3 or Command & Conquer to SC2 and only had moderate success.

I am not saying someone switching cannot be top level, sure they can. I'm saying they don't necessarily have an edge, and for people exceptional at particular game, it very well may be it was their thing.

That said, no doubt any competent quek (any version) or UT player can likely rekt newbs on non-competitive level, but that's not exactly anything to be proud of.

I agree with this. Additionally, let's not forget the game is really fresh. We might see a very different game in a couple of months, where certain players might excell greatly if certain heroes were buffed.

I also agree with this, it's self-explanatory, but I would have an (important) addition:

To be in the world top 10 in anything, you need talent, luck and skill acquired by lots of training. People who are expecting top game-“A” players to be top game-“B” players have little idea about competitive sport of any kind.

There is no such thing (or extremely rare) that a top swimmer just swaps and turns into a top water-polo player, or a top kayaker turning into a top canoer….. Even if she/he is very talented and lucky the skill will only come with training, and the amount of training required depends of the kind of talent they have, so it's different for every person with every sport type.

I'm there with online gaming since the beginning, and Quake players (despite the tiny player pool we have), usually do very well in any given shooter, and they are generally much more versatile than gamers from other games.

Almost every quake pro is GE in cs. That's top 0.9 percentile. I don't remember any pro from other games being ranked that high in quake playing casually

GE ain't that hard tho. But yeah u have a point

But that is just the point. Being good at quake requires a wide range of skills. CS requires a smaller range of skills but to be a top player you must master these skills (which Quake top player really mastered all weapons?). So of course, Quake players are usually decent at other fps due to their allround education, but you hardly see anyone make it to the absolute top.

And yes, I find reasons like, "duh they just miss motivation, otherwise they could master these skills too", just poor. That's the ultimate excuse for everything, don't give me that "I am an underachiever" crap.

Yes quake is kind of like dechatlon in athletics. You have to excel at many different skills to be top, much more than in any big shooter nowadays. Sure cs pros have better aim on average, sure some ft2 players are better at team play. Those players are specialized and fill a certain role in their team. Quakers don't work like that. 2 main reason I think stop quake pros from becoming top in other games are: 1) they have different mentality in a way that they tend to think their individual combat skills can save em in unfavorable situations, which doesn't work outside afps games 2) they are old farts who are incapable of learning new tricks as fast as younger players do (I think claws, as a young guy, has more chance at topping new games than Cooller, cypher, ....)

All those things they spent years to perfect like map control, weapon selection, ammo management,... are now useless to them.

IMO 30+ year old quake pros could only be top in future afps games like q5, ut4, diabotical or whatever arena game comes out next

Agreed, also 30+ year olds cannot practice new games anymore like a 18 year old can due to family, job etc.

I for one am glad that the competitive fps scene is still alive, that makes it only more likely for us to see a Quake 5 with a proper multiplayer.

lol, so jealous and bitter. always talking about sucking at life. projecting much? are you that unhappy? smh
you're the type of person that continuously keeps spewing so much bullshit that ppl cba explaining why you're wrong over and over again, it's simpler to just dismiss it. so without further ado: you're a fucking idiot.

There are several flaws with what you're saying.

Firstly, it's a team of 6 players. One player can't single handedly win the game. Second, the game is severely skill compressed does not allow mastery of the game to the level that Quake allows.

The statement 'they can't beat the best' is totally nonsensical. A more accurate way to describe their lack of success would be 'The current collective level of experience, skill, communication and teamwork across the 6 players in cooller's team is not as good as the opposing teams they have faced.'

So, you are saying that Quake pros would go on to make more money elsewhere. Then tell me all of the games where Quake players are successfully earning money? Tell me all of the other games where the superior skills of Quake players will shine to cash in some easy money? Tell me why the superior skills of Quake players do not provide them a consistent advantage, but are consistently worse in other games than analog "pro" caliber players who cash out money from tournaments?

This perspective, opinion I read for not the first time, it's a logical fallacy that has no validation in practice outside of this delusional bubble of a reasoning which is quite easy to pop.

Please, feel free to amuse me, but be careful of your own gibberish, it will bite back.

Where did I say they should move on to another game? I said: "move on to a better method of making money."

I mean that as an open ended statement. I personally hope cooller and cypher come to their senses and stop trying to make a living from competitive gaming and move onto a smarter way of making money by starting their own business or something, or do what czm did. Czm is the greatest person I've ever seen, insanely skilled quake player that competed at the highest level but he also achieved greatness in his real job as well.

Quake players can't just go and take over other competitive games because of a few things:

- Most 'eSports' (and I use that term loosely) are team games. You can't single handedly win major tournaments in a team of 5 or 6 (ok, given the right scenario in CS you can win a round 1v4 or something and pull off a miracle, but 90% of game time requires collective team skill.)

- 1v1 games in esports are basically dead, except for games like street fighter and SC2, but good luck making a living in those games that require a completely different skillset to quake and years to master, what are they going to do for the 12-18 months it would take to become a pro without bringing in any money trying to become a SC2 god?

- No passion for the game. They are just playing it because everyone else is, in the hope that they will win something. How are they expected to take the game seriously in such a skill compressed environment? Cooller for example is just playing it for the money, and he's said so himself, you remove all of that passion they had in Quake and that has a big impact on game performance.

- Quake skills do not translate to other games, except for a hand eye coordination basically and general 'familiarity' with FPS mechanics. When you peel off all the extra layers of Quake gameplay and look at the pure 'FPS' side of the game: you have a crosshair, you point and shoot.

Here's the list of skills that don't translate to other games: (in general, there are half-exceptions for some of them)

- Movement, strafe jumping, rocket jumping
- Advanced dodging meta
- Advanced positioning relative to your opponent (from dueling)
- Item control, health, armour, ammo management
- Advanced aiming mechanics e.g. 180 flicks using accel after rocket jumping with pinpoint accuracy, extreme vertical aim while dodging, downward flicks while travelling at very fast UPS, etc. This kind of aiming isn't possible in most other games.
- Lots more that I won't go in to because it requires a lot of explanation and thought which I cbf atm

So in summary, the GAME of Quake itself requires a huge amount of skill built up by the players, but it's mostly relative to Quake itself. Those skills built up simply don't exist to be utilised in other games, so when you say things like "Tell me why the superior skills of Quake players do not provide them a consistent advantage" - I think I've pretty much answered that.

Your assumption that I meant they should compete in other games amuses me.

Quality post

Cooller is a world class Q3/QL TDM player though, among the best ever and champion of the world and all. He knows how to play team based games, and went pro at a FPS where dodging (his specialty) and accuracy (QL players specialty) matters, such as OW.

So, why is he the top #2387423847234 player in the game?.

Quake dodging skill does not translate to OW, Quake aiming skill does not translate to OW.

i disagree :)

You are not understanding. Sure, there is aiming, there is dodging in the game, but all those thousands of hours spent in QL dodging and aiming is not going to help cooller be a better dodger or aimer than other people in OW.

You can't aim or dodge to the same degree as you can in QL. See http://www.esreality.com/post/2817562/hide-th...pid2818173 for a visual representation.

i still disagree :D

Have you played the game?

Elitist and delusional bully ITT!

Add me on b.net bro. I have played this game so much now, amazing. Lets get that Master Rank 1

/zhu

IIrc kaplan said in an interview that they don't want to implement drawgun 0.

Heartless add my b.net id: [email protected]

lets play

i will add you later :)

i want to play this game alone atm, reaching lvl like 40-50 and then i'll start playing with friends etc.

Alright, why alone?

You can play with me and my friends we have 95% winrate

because i only play with s76 and i have music on while playing

lol guys

http://esreality.com/post/2341117/#pid2341286

L O L
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Ayy

Read in context. Context = all games that are practically the same as Quake 3.

Because, you know, no Quaker has ever won anything outside an Arena FPS, nor in any "mainstream e-sport", that fills stadiums and winning is a recognized achievement. Not be competitive at them, even.

My sentence means "winning everything in games played by a dozen of people in a dark corner, that are practically the same as Q3", alike Shootmania, Painkiller and Wickland. That's the context of the discussion, the Shootmania topic.

Outside us no one knows who Cypher is for example, despite him being the best Q3/QL player of all time, and when Cypher tried going 24/7 pro at other games he has sucked at them (CSGO, OW). Quake 3 players have only excelled at Quake 3 and Quake 3 clones, and are only good at Quake 3 and Quake 3 alone.

shootmania is not a fast-paced fps

i mean, it's not slow, it's faster than CS:GO and it has a rail (which is not even the same kind of rail that you find in q3 because reload time is much slower and if you miss a shot you're very punished for it) and rockets (which are not even the same kind of rockets you find in q3...) and that's basically it.

the movements are different, the maps are different, the teamplay is different, and the "combat skills" are similar but not exactly the same (i'd say it's like 60% like quake, at best).

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Concerning overwatch, the game is probably even closer to quake than shootmania. Ofc it's still slower than quake, but not slower than TF2 which is considered quite fast already. And it also depends a lot on the hero you're playing with.
It has rockets, hitscans weapons, all kind of projectile weapons (like plasma etc) ground accel is high, some heroes just play almost the same as quake with 1 weapon.
The only big difference with quake is that it's 6v6, there are ultimates (for each hero) and ofc the meta game is not the same, and there's no strafe-jumping/bunny-hopping. But that's all.

But yet, it's still not EXACTLY like quake, that's why people are shitting on it. I mean the character models are not sarge nor doom nor ranger :D, the maps obviously are different, the sounds are different, and like i said, there's no strafe/bunny-hopping.

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Cypher and av3k were never good at shootmania, and they used to play it a lot when it was hypped. Some quake players like GaRpY were only average, i mean, they were not bad, but not the best dominating everyone.
Actually the only quake players that dominated shootmania were winz, akm (his little brother), stermy and strenx, and that's basically it.


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Give winz, akm, stermy, dahang some more months of practice, and i'm pretty sure they will dominate overwatch aswell, if they keep playing it ofc :). And we didn't see winz's team play yet...
Dunno what happend to strenx, he doesn't stream anymore and doesn't play quake either...


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Cypher is a pure 1v1 player, ofc he can play team games, but he will never excell at it, because it's NOT 1v1 (for example he used to play TDM and CTF at quakecon and was not at the top, far from it actually).
Cooller can play both, and he's C O O L L E R, so can't say what will happen for him in the upcoming months.
But imho, playing with cypher or av3k does NOT give you an instant win, no matter the game you play.

TBH some people here don't like videogames. They like Quake 3 and only Quake 3, hence they don't give an opportunity to anything else.

The funny thing is the "pros" they admire do try different stuff, so that the best Q3/QL players aren't as biased as the VQ3-only people here.

Yes the more dedicated Q3 players tend to suck at other games (cypher, avek), but at least they like the hobby as a whole, try more games and are open minded enough to see people like different stuff. Of course the prime example is cooller, that reached the point of only having the labor skills of being a car salesman and playing Q3; not even other games.

At the same time, there are other top players that have a broader perspective and range of skills than mostly dedicating to Q3/QL, so they do better at different games than those that are only really good at Q3 (winz, stermy, dahang). For example most likely winz doesn't consider himself a Q3 player, and due to his different skills (not only Q3) he is the candidate player of those that played Q3/QL to become a top level player in OW. I'd put my money on Noctis or fox (if they pick the game) to achieve something over cypher or rapha (the quake champions), just because the former two have a broader experience than Q3.

C O O L L E R
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also, dahang is the only quake player in his team afaik (team liquid), others are former tf2/csgo/whatever players, but not quake players :)

its painful to read about "cooller and cypher failing ow guess they arent so pro" when both of them are exceptional 1v1 players and the game in question is a totally different (no armor to control or powerups etc), TEAM based AND is 6v6 making a team dynamic so much more important then individual skill...


I mean sure you could expect more from them or other quake players but is it really surprising to see a bunch of tf2 players who played with much more similar styles to what OW requires succeed better at the start of this game?

Both have more than enough experience working with teams.

Cooller is as good in TDM as he is in duel. I don't know why people keep on forgetting that part of his career.

Cypher tried going pro at CSGO and has participated in many TDM tournaments. Maybe he is not as good as Cooller, but he has years of world class level practice under his belt.

I am not forgetting about cooller's tdm past and i never thought him as good at it as duel AND I always thought he was a less complete tdm player vs say... noctis

Cypher was even less of a tdm player in style and never mastered that part like alot of tdm players.

Too bad i can't force models into green keels in OW.