all players who have autoinvite to season 25 - pls confirm (or decline) me your participating. Write at irc or [email protected]. thx

Was very fun to watch

Website down for me.

OMEK
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TEBEG
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H 8 M 3
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Cooller.

Cypher.

Rapha.

Dahang.

ZorakWar!

Dahang!

Dagang!

Galang!

(best map)

who ?

You have different flag on every site, don't you?

flag only matters in CTF))

the more you donate, the more probability you have to be the one who decides the map!

definitly )

Best is to make donation in RUB !

1000 rub.... easy !

why is quak offline?
no info, nothing, another ddos atack? :(

Big thanks Alexey A, Oleg Omek and all donators.
Nico and the admins too.

http://i.imgur.com/1dgYioM.png sorry anton

we have new donator!
10 euro from Tebeg
thanks a lot, mate.

dm6 :P

we have new donator!
50 USD from kodisha
thanks mate!

can you pls change to kodisha, i forgot to write my nick in paypal

ok, fixed

btw what map would you like to pick from this three? )

dm6 - coz we didn't see it for a long time.

nice pick

K O D I S H A
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FACEIT to revive sunday cups?

Of course not.

in prep for quakecon, yes, but I doubt they'll go beyond that.

Qualifier 1 sign up
http://125fps.challonge.com/tournaments/signup/aPW3v7FA8y

We haven't done the lottery yet, so today we will do like this:

All 9 maps. Drop*8. Bo1
sinister, cure, t7, silence, battleforged, elder, tox, dm6, t4

So if happens that I win the lottery I pick dm6.

Quick question: 1st quali -dept the russian dept from q3?

so, finally - omek said he dont want to participate in mapchoice lottery, tebeg and kodisha wants dm6, thus - 7th map season 25 is Campgrounds

hmm

edit: with dm6 in I would actually try to play this season if I didn't come home too late every day :D

mhh

Begging for an invite, classy.

No, I always win my qualifiers :P

I wish I miss watching you play ins. And commentate

Man up an qualify. No excuses

I will if I play today, am just trying to figure out if I'd be able to play the in the group stage cause of the late time I come home at

Haha this map pool was perfect until the donators screwed it all up and voted dm6 in there. Campgrounds is fun enough in ffa but surely it is just not a good duel map - Toxicity however, is.

Next time donate yourself and don't blame others :P

Personally I don't like toxicity so for me it was last choice. Also it's a controversial map afair too. T4 is nice, but it was played not so long ago contrary to dm6.

Think you got it the other way around

It's one of the hardest duelmaps imo. Mindgame-maps<3

silence and battleforged : yay !!

elder and dm6 : booooo

15 Jul Pro Leaguse s25 quali#2 sign up link http://125fps.challonge.com/tournaments/signup/eVyvZnHXlG

Streaming my qualification here.

Go me! *hype*

Or alternatively, not

Could of swore I saw one of these starting in 4 hours when I got up this morning.

will there be an amateur league ?

look at fpspulse.com

thanks, I'll be glad to participate in the next one

I'll try to play and stream myself today @ http://twitch.tv/theamazingins

EDIT: went live 3 hours early, tried to set everything up, after 2 hours i was still online raging at ql cause it just didn't work with obs, couldn't join a game or ql would just crash. sorry, i tried

please try

17 July 20:00 CEST Pro League s25 quali#3 sing up link http://125fps.challonge.com/tournaments/signup/LNYfojMdUW

20 July 20:00 CEST - Pro League season#25 quali#4 sign up link http://125fps.challonge.com/tournaments/signup/odI0YXFEbU

22 July 20:00 CEST PL S25 quali#5 http://125fps.challonge.com/tournaments/signup/KeGAsjYUxx

24 July 20:00 CEST - Pro League season#25, last quali#6 sign up link http://125fps.challonge.com/tournaments/signup/xmwzLI4EVz

lol, penis half won...

upd.: oh my, penis got to be ins...

125 FPS events database (player profiles, tourneys) is opened now http://125fps.com/en/hall-of-fame

ow ow ow !!

:)

Has a typo in "Links to good sites with interesting info about qualelive"

Yes. Nico knows. But he chooses "qualelive".

ah, my bad.

5th-8th master.

Dis is my playground niggas

PS S#25 GS1 http://125fps.challonge.com/s25_gs1
28 July Group A1 k1llsen karwik garpy xron unby maggotkil
30 July Group B1 sting_pl lars base_ zanzan zznak emmwatson
4 aug Group C1 kronic nitrino mix_ nemesisfps st1ng cherepoff
6 aug Group D1 ash cyber madball zanes_ iddqd_ru ins

rip ins

Group D is toughest group here. :/

Ye, fuck his luck. I still believe tho

Can't wait for the servers battle.

K1LLSEN K2LLSEN K3LLSEN

+5 years then killsen + son vs drejk + newb

sorry i don't get it

killer + son VS Drejk + son

killsen/drejk both r parents

is unby slimk?

nope...

_____________ was slimk.

damn

_______ was slimk!

are you sure? thought he had it not that small.

QL makes it look longer.

judging by how often base now wins agains agent i wish we had him up and ready for the next quakecon.
zorakwar by the time must already be on par with dohung and rougha

Darn. K1llsen trow away against garpy at end. Nice of garpy not to fold under the pressure too.

who streamed? VODs?

check zlive, they have everything
http://www.twitch.tv/zlive/v/8847540

flair streamed too, but i dunno if he got it stored
upd.: now i know - http://www.twitch.tv/flairtv/v/8847078

Of course it's stored :P

Anything major gets highlighted and put on youtube.com/duelcup the exact same day. No sense in waiting days or weeks to get a proper VOD up.

Thanks for the vods bro

Emmwatson C: Emmwatson C: Emmwatson C: GL man!!!!!!!!!!

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just an idea for zlive: do a democast of the cooller-toxic game from qcon that wasn't streamed

we have new donator!
50 euro from AsphyxEvents! "Hello 125 FPS Team. With that donation i want to say thanks for all your great events Cheers from AsphyxEvents"
thanks a lot mate!
125 FPS CashFlow

ins
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penis
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love watching kronic play but sadly he plays too little recently, wonder whether he shows up today

we have new donator!
25$ fazz (23.60 after tax)
thanks a lot!

is that what used to belong recently to sparks? :D

yes, sparks gave it back to fazz and fazz told him to put on 125fps :D

"tax" aka Nico's vodka fund. :P

Zlive V0DS group c is up.videos 17-26 from the list ! Enjoy!

zootql

one more time thx for your donate, asphyx!

netcabo.pt kinda dodges for you

here are the ZLive V0DS from group D.videos 27-32 from the list ! Enjoy!

zootql

You da real MVP :B

gs2 groups http://125fps.challonge.com/s25_gs2_playoff
11 Aug Group A2 cypher prox1mo nitrino lars xron
13 Aug Group B2 pavel clawz matr0x_pl k1llsen emmwatson
18 Aug Group C2 dem0n agent base_ mix_ madball
20 Aug Group D2 evil ash garpy iddqd_ru cherepoff

cyhper day incoming (tomorrow)...i'm psyched! i feel like cypher v nitrino could be a pretty awesome game.

inb4 cyhper trashtalks and forfeits in 1 minute :D

only if nitro hits 10 rails before 1 minute mark :P

I'm pretty sure Cypher will still crush everyone in his group. :P

including himself :D

You were saying...? :-P

11 Aug Group A2 : cypher, prox1mo, nitrino, lars, xron
13 Aug Group B2 : pavel, clawz, matr0x_pl, k1llsen, emmwatson
18 Aug Group C2 : dem0n, agent, base_, mix_, madball
20 Aug Group D2 : evil, ash, garpy, iddqd_ru, cherepoff

LARS, LARS, LARS.

S R A L
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no cooller yes fun

Noooo.

Mas cooler mas fun. Even if drama:p

S I L E N C E

yes please

keep silence please

@ Nico, my donators choice would be silence for sure!

@ Nitrino you can kick cyphers ass on this map :)

pitifully one map isn't enough to induce asphyxia in cypher :P

anything isn't enough for cyphre apart from evil

He flopped today. Probably because dissapointment of quakeco, I guess. Obvious that he could of played more...ermm.....like himself if he took on the time, I think.

well seems like nitrino with evil's config was enough for him this time...

BETS DAMNIT

meant bats no?

Cypher vs Nitrino would have been in the money on Nitrino bets.

At least like 2:1.

is cypHER trying to emphasize his female inner part today? yellow must symbolize ripeness i guess.

cypher is stoned.

better say 'nitrinoed'

like i said -> Nitrino kicks his ass :) well played!

Lol at Ash's comment after cypher played...

Ash : After death, there are only ashes

:)

Also, lol at nitrinos comment after beating cypher.

Something about he uses evils comfig now...likes it a lot :)

Anyone willing translate what they where saying .

there is no much sense to translate directly, cypher was just playing sort of clown, constantly was saying smth about how nitrino was strong and tough but it was obvious he was trying to ridicule him
nitrino tried to boil down his good play to using evil's cfg which only made cypher say more weird stuff
by the end nitrno said ironically that cypher plays funny and whiny, cypher made big eyes demanding to explaine where exactly he did whine...
overall this made almost no sense :D

thank you very much for the translation! I always wonder if he's just cursing or being silly or what this gives me some insight now :)

interesting way of crap talking between the two of them in a nice way he he.

inb4 it was actually evil playing on nitrino's account and the comment about the config was just a little hint at what was going on :P

yes, i'm just starting rumors

Haha. I was actually wondering that when they were playing for a bit :p

i had the same idea for a moment, and btw it is not the 1st attempt, i remember that topic was discussed a few times before here and there. i guess it's because of the similar player styles. but after a bit of research you can notice some prominent things:

1) evil doesn't rely on flick shots, ye he can try them, but usually he knows where his enemy and tries to keep an eye on him to make 100% successful shot. nitrino does it often, and if he is on fire he can beat some pros.
2) different style of rocket-jumps. evil moves his mouse down very accurately and calibrated, also he loves to do back RJs, seems like he is quite thrifty about his mouse movements and also he uses rj script sometimes. nitrino does RJ quite harshly and dirtily.
3) evil is master of dodges, mb he is even cooller than cooller on this side. nitrino doesn't rely on his dodges that often, but mostly on aim and unpredictable attacks.

tl;dr
evil - stability, pressure, dodges, smooth mouse movements
nitrino - unpredictability, inspiration, aim, sharp mouse movements.

Ahh. Good analysis!

Kwabs – Walk.mp3 <3

I don't get it! :-/

Also, wp today!

It's his victory song.

Zlive V0DS: Group A2 : videos 33-36 from the playlist.

Must Watch -> Nitrino vs Cypher ( video 33 )

zootql

http://www.plusforward.net/vods/

:]

:) is better to watch it on yt insteed from twitch when you ask me !

The stream channel is only listed to the right so you know where it came from. 90% of these VODs are youtube videos

noone mentioned base-lars game.
quite impressive match @ sinister

Your Ad Could Be Here

Zlive V0DS: Group B2 videos 37 - 43 from the playlist.

inclusive a quick and dirty interview with the one and only K 1 L L S E N ( video 42 )

zootql

thx for that

no problem! impressive gameplay from mr. dm6 :)

Funny how dominant cypher was looking leading up to qcon to how weak he looks now

not weak, just dormant
floated away into the church of slumber and wounded fantasies for as long as least a year

Group C2 Agent (POV) vs mix

who the fuck is mix?

new player or an alias?

just a mix of different players, probably yay0 in there

Can someone ask him if it's fun to shoot at Estonian people or just more motivating or smth?!

agent ? why ?

rewatched the vod but failed to notice smth relating to your comment...

Enemy models look like the Estonian flag?

omg, you're psychic :D

tbh i'm not sure whether he can even tell the difference between the three baltic countries, not to mention estonian flag

we have new donator! 35euro from Wild Horse
thanks a lot, mate!
125 FPS Balance

For the current moment 7th map for PL season 27 will chose one of these men (more info here)
04.08.2015 AsphyxEvents 50 euro (47,45) 3 191,64RUB
05.08.2015 fazz 25$ (23.60) 1 433,23RUB
10.08.2015 [ru] macovsky 500,00RUB
18.08.2015 WildHorse 35 euro; 2 467,71RUB

unleash the demen!!

time to warmup

why, why say all this distracting stuff like 'air', 'why' and else?

"air" is a bind which I mostly mistype during play.

Why is because Base's attack on the lower YA at elder was the most retarded move i've witnessed in my last 200 duels.

hehe, thx for an explanation :D
just was wondering why you are so inclined to waste time at typing stuff when you just need to concentrate on your best next move

Just whatched. If it's a the one I'm thinking of, looked smart to peak with rail the way he did.

Your chase at the end was epic. I thought you moved more fluidly than evil does at his best. When you chased from the key to lower, verrry nice. Hilarious he tried to hide under the floor at lava. Nice catch to get overtime!!!

That was an hilarious moment indeed :).

I'm thinking the move he did midgame when I had the lead, standing at lower ya and he came behind me from that window... I was super stacked and would be a kill for me 99% of the time but unfortunately missed all my shots :/.

that's exactly what cypher does all the time to frustrate his oponents

Link to youtube vod, or twitch vod pls? thx <3

http://www.esreality.com/post/2747102/125-fps...pid2763565

[-]

[{(.)}]

Zlive V0DS: Group C2 videos 44 - 49 from the playlist.

sorry for the 2 times pc crash from Shpuld ! highlighted as much as i can !

Zlive

Some additional vods from Season #25

darn, base-agent was like eating a good-quality cookie, marvelous!

Evil vs garpy lag server problems....

Sync, come fix this Error, Please :)

favorite part of the day with Falir's generational backgrounds being passed down lol..l


gapy saying pussy then evil saying pussy this pretty much with his actions afterwards.

wish garpy would Rage out of 125 FPS league and cooller unrage back in :)

Respect the history !!! lol..

Haha sweet. I was rolling. Much better than sitting waiting on evil and garpy to decide the ping war :)

13 out of K1llsen's last 20 games he had a score of 20 lol.

he set a cap of 20 frags to waste no much time with noobzies

Ahh. Makes sense now :)

It is a mercy limit, like at the Prague Lan when 102 hit it multiple times at 50 frags :)

125 FPS Pro League S#25 Playoff
http://125fps.challonge.com/s25_gs2_playoff

24 aug 1/8: base_ vs pavel, clawz vs prox1mo
25 aug 1/8: ash vs madball, cypher vs garpy
26 aug 1/4: evil vs <>, agent vs <>
27 aug 1/4: nitrino vs <>, k1llsen vs <>
28 aug 1/2; 1/2; final

looking forward for base - pavel action :)

poor pavel :]

evil base
cypher k1llsen

Kreygasm

B A S E
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Hey guys, no zlive stream today. But I just saw fazz is going to have rapha on as guest.

So: twitch.tv/fazz

also: flair and 102 for the russian viewers ;).

I found out too late, were they impressed with base?

Was cool plasma climbs at end though!

link video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROWqjuTM0g

Damnit I plused you before I watched :p

I really like that song by the way. I do not like it for 10 hours though. :)

Never gonna give you up,
Never gonna let you down,
Never gonna run around and hurt you!
:)

it's bretty good

what a douche-move. thanks!

\:D/

:P

BASE BASE BASE

:)

The ca/tdm crossover players keep showing that it can be a good _base(accidental pun) for duel :)

Yet rough agents of evil voodoo ain't gonna make it cooller and try to decypher their agenda by having debased a hang of their chances and turned them to the sparks of neutrinos and toxic ashes aided by clawed demons and mad'n ballzy ponies :D

fatal1ty

Lol I'll plus that

such flair

no fuss here: seven bucks a teen plus cooked llello, zero fortune to knock tits in a zoo to say the least

CYPHERRRRRRRR. Don't fuck this up, bro.

Yea, time for a comeback post qcon!

looks like strenx coming back in full strength, advertising campaign started:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk15HAXT3NE
http://www.strenx.com/

Ewwwww. Give me +back :)

np

Plussing before checking links - so reckless of you. :D

VODs from the playoffs I gathered :

http://www.esportactu.fr/competition/2660-125...-2015/vod/

Kind of ironic that, while the game seems to be coming to an end, streaming wise these appear to be the best times. fazz pre qcon stream I already praised. And now him and rapha together, making cursory remarks about the match at hand where appropriate while sharing droll stories from the olden times among each other - had the quality ever been any better? Don't believe so.

yeah, those stories are golden indeed!
still prefer real casting from zlive tho

Do they ever put some names to the dudes? zoot used to have his plastered all over the thing.

well, it's still the zlive show ain't it.
and no, haven't seen the casters names in any of the overlays.

Right, thanks dude. Appreciated. It's just been an exercise question lifted straight from the "How to take due credit for your work" textbook. Maybe I'm gonna join chat and recommend it there someday.

man, wtf? for sure rapha, fazz, garpy, madball and ash were not ha!

For those who have issues with twitch or missed anything ...
Here (as always) is the full season #25 playlist ...
the playoff games are at the bottom. cheers

Bomb diggity!

why relate saddam to quake?..

is this Base?

nay, it's Lukashenko :]

upd.: yes, it's base

here is Base. check first 3 minutes of his show:

Russians speakarz going full unikom harosh mode for the final stages of da game again.

Koroche, russians:

BALKON.

okay let's admit it, that was ridiculous, _base's aim was off the f****** charts today. From seeing him recently rapha added it would be 55-65% in favor of evil. Seemed pretty spot on...

I think his aim is better than clawz at times. If he keeps playing and improving this could be something serious!!!

It IS something serious already. 3-2 in a bo5 vs ONLINE evil . Not much people can do that.. Not even cypher sometimes..

yep, and t7 was pretty close as well.

True! Serious has been passed.

Maybe no more evil cypher only from now on :)

let's also not forget clawz rekt agent 3 - 0.

Gonna be some awesome semi's and finals. I mean evil will probably still take it, but should be awesome non the less.

Yes, afterwards I watched class, some more Insane/ins moments there. If he looks like base vs evil next time...hehehe.

Base vs clawz as they continue to mature will be an aimbot festivous for the rest of us!!!

I was one of those naysayers that kept bashing these irrelevant players - slowly but surely I became a believer.

I have the same feelings as with strenx/noctis/tox/p0ni/stermy

I don't care if they win, I just want to see them play.

p.s. I'm not comparing the aforementioned players with base/clawz

amazing games last night, long live quake!
base <3

According to 125fps site Base is going to be married tomorrow) \o/

Hell after such a performance it should be strange that ladies wouldn't be wooed.
His silence and BF games were spot on.

I'd marry him in an instant.

He he. Congrats base!

Let's hope his new fire continues ;)

hence the loss, now I get it

Nice, has someone any interview/info from this guy? Maybe i missed some topics...
Age, games played, etc.

Interview with base_ would be awesome! Ill see if I can hook it up next season.

Hope his english is good and stuff.

Are there no russian+english speaker among the casters? maybe ask cooller to interview base if it's the best we can get.. :D

Enjoy could translate I suppose, but would be nice if he spoke english anyway :)

shpuld, please invite rapha to your stream. he seems to be available for hire today with fazz being absent

more than 2 peepole on stream just turns into a clusterfuck :/

just 1 peepole should get erased :{

lol

love the zlive team, but let's be honest - having rapha on for one finals stream is well worth losing one of the regular casters for that one stream.

Bets:

Evil vs Clawz

Nitrino vs Cypher

Anyone know what advice that Cooler gave to _base on silence, right after evil left server?

He said a few things, then when evil came back, nothing more :)

Like "base" to get his attention, then 3 or four things after that. Think it was advice :)

don't remember exactly but was smth about cooller giving nitrino an advice to go have a face cold water wash right after he took a map from cypher, before proceeding

Ah. Relax , wash face , anything to settle your mind and emotions before next Map. Ty :)

Almost. Time.

Noobs admins bounce this thread and edit it, cooller is streaming the tournament..!

cooller is streaming:

http://www.twitch.tv/cooller

wow whata final. not much to say apart from - fuck you mr pussyshevsku

cypher.exe has encountered an error

Thanks cypher for caring for 10 minutes this time...

need vods with stamps from cooller please :)

i was gonna win 125fps

but then i got high

yep, all of a sudden :D

There is a Cypher interview (and Cypher talks a lot) at the moment on Cooller's stream. Apparently, Cypher is saying evil always win because he drives Cypher mad with aggressive playstyle and risky moves.

If a russian was there and can summarize what Cypher said apart from that that would be awesome, my 15 russian words are not good enough to get it.

There's evil's interview on agent's stream, which is hilarious.

Okay, need to have the whole drama now !

lol

Hehe what did evil say?

to understand russian u first of all need to learn this 15 words: SUKA BLYAT PIDARAS MOST KRASNIY MEGULYA BANKI BAZOOKA PIZDEC SOZDAY DA EBAT SHLUHA SOSI HUI. after learning that ull be like insta semi-russian

cooller listening cypha after finals

was it really so boring? :D

The funny thing is that cooller was in the very same position a couple of years back, when he used to lose versus cypher due to "some bullshit". It maybe deserves mentioning, in hindsight, that he used to cope much better with it than cypher does now.

Well, I couldn't resist and have translated in a transcript manner cypher's gibberish at cooller's stream. Just for the sake of future generations :D

-------------------

[After 10 minutes of microphone setting up to make cypher sound loud enough for stream viewers]

The point is, it's my subjective personal view, that when evil is playing vs me, he doesn't really try to play good, smart, spectacular game... i mean to play it cool, trying to oversmart or to use tricks which are usually common for final games to many people well good players... well... i'm not saying names... to hell with examples... Well, he knows that I'm tilting against him... and he knows what makes me angry and is constantly exploiting this vs me. He just feels how it works and is starting to make me choke, push me, push-push, choke-choke-choke...and... the situation is just like that: if I succeed in stoping him the 1st time, the 2nd time, the 3rd time, then the score is up to 10 or 20 in my favor.
But if i fail to stop him the 1st, the 2nd, the 3rd time, if you miss something, hit not enough, misposition myself for only a milimeter when he is leaping out on me and other like thingies of technical nature, then that's it! And the game against him is only about my success in stopping him, that is if I manage to stop him then that's it. If I don't stop him then the game transforms into headless running aroung the map, catching me up in hope I get infuriated after such two or three frags and rush on him and give away frags.

I'm just... plain... not even uncomfortable about it, I'm really disgusted! to play against him... disgusted!... err... the quake itself I love... err... as a competitive discipline... And there are plenty of players in my memory to whom I feel huge respect... and you [addressing cooller] are among them... These people win their games not thanks to... err... well... err... well, I don't know... well... ... Of course! Here one could say 'Ok, he's found that little trick which works against me, and this is a certain strategy of sorts...' But, damn, this err... this I don't know... this is so wrong to my opinion, yes? But this is already not that quake, that's sort of parody on quake, on shooter... You just pick random shooter, download it, and play it plusforward and shoot. That is about it. For me quake is an utterly different thing and... how much effort have I invested in it thinking how to better the way I play it, how to make it ideal.

And when I meet this certain player who... err... who got just one brain gyrus which makes him thing that if he manages to tilt me, to strangle and push me in this certain manner... I mean... shafting me that close, use it at short and middle distances... Indeed, he has his advantages, strong aspects which I haven't seen in somebody else. He is using them rather often, but the truth is that they are not sufficient... to win versus top players. And that's why... against me he uses exactly this shit.

At super important tournaments, it's not for a fact that this strategy brings him that much success. And in general, at super important tournaments, he just fails. But... errr... it's very difficult to adjust myself for a... errr... I don't know why, maybe I'm just that an emotional person... but when it is four times in a row when there is happenning total nonsense, total bullshit, and I know it 100 per cent for a fact that I punish people for that each and every time, but here it is me who gets punished on the contrary!... and when this is happenning four times in a row in one game and when he is going 50 by 50, gambling and fragging me four times in a row, then... I have it all in fire within myself, I'm really getting hot inside, failing to understand this bullshit. Why? why this exact gamestyle is to win after all!? Why is this supposed to be top...

[Cooller] So, to cut it short, it's starting to burn by yourself, right?

Yes! It burns because this in unfair! Because there are many people, playing in a much more correct way in comparison to him... and with all this they have more...err... i mean less good aim and that's it. That is he just got mastered a few tricks... There are two or three tricks: dodge, shaft and err... some other... err... intercept an opponnet being at control... I mean when he is not taking major items trying to catch an opponent near certain weapons right after he got him fragged.

But when he is not fragging, when the score is 0-0, it's ridiculous to watch him, because he is pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing and pushing... just without a single thought! He can totally fuck up when being at controll, give away the red, mega or something else... but this is unimportant! unimportant because there will be a moment when you engage in a fight one-by-one, and you'll have no single chance. And the whole match is happenning in such a tense manner!!! that the only thought you have in your mind is about this fucking close combat pushing he is constantly giving you, trying to win during it at least the slightest advantage. You just stop thinking about items, about this, about that, because you already know that this is not worth it. Either way he is going to come up to you, and the final stage of the game is just about how good you are in meeting his attacks in this or that situation. One time you fuck up - and everything is already in vain, the second time you fuck up - it's gg.

And this exact stress is coming again over an over when you play vs him. He is aware of that and strangles you down. Besides, he is behaving... I mean... just from the times past... he knows what is likely to tilt me, so he's acting in a certain way, smiling me through the whole game.

I know that I errr... sort of whining and stuff... burning me that much that it looks ridiculous... after all these years... I know, I told him more than once at quacecon 'Listen, your playstyle disgusts me' err... and I gave my apologies about my bad words about him in the past... and other things of the sort... and I said that I had not ever seen such a dumb play from somebody else ever err... and am not going to ever accept his playstyle...
-----------------------------
the 2nd part is here:
http://esreality.com/post/2764633/re-125-fps-...pid2764633

now translate evil on agent stream!

yes, sir!

Where is that?

Assumed this was only half accurate, is that still the same man who said "u rush too much" to dahang in a qcon final? Because according to this evil seems to rush too much too. Only that it now seems to take a lot more words for him to state the fact.

I assure you it was as much accurate as possible. Cypher was mumbling and rumbling 10 times more often though than it looks like in the transcript.

I call bullshit on your post. Just listened to the recording of cooller's broadcast, and while I didn't understand a word all those "errr" you plugged there to make him look entirely confused are totally exaggerated.

Good job "translating" while piggybacking some of your own, biased crap onto there.

well if I remember correctly you are among those who have a preconcept of badness about evil, so I understand your being eager to protect cypher. The problem is though about you grasping obviously zero understanding from what cypher is speaking. Cypher was so often jumping in his words from one thing to others totally irrelevent to what he was just saying, that I tried to convey at least something which inevitably is to be lost when you are trying to transcribe smb's speech into text. I was using 'err's' sometimes for the places where you'd hear normal speech, if you don't understand russian, but in fact there are just random words to fill the gaps of sense in cypher's speech. Just watch cooller's face and you might be closer to understanding of the matter. So please call bullshit on yourself clever dude.

No I have no preconception of "badness about evil". I just don't sympathize with his playstyle.

And I stand by my word. Obviously I can't prove you wrong in all your wild claims there, but I still consider your "translation" a deliberately manipulative pamphlet. He speaks fluently. Gets excited at one or two points, just like he is. May not always have been coherent, that I don't know. But what you're doing there above is completely bogus.

well then ask smb else, for example twister, to help you compare, word-by-word, my translation with the original interview... err.. monologue from cypher. Looks like you're in love with sweet cypher. Who else would ever go for a feat of listening for that long to that sweet voice in a language in which you're total profane...

Who would do that? I can tell you who. Somebody who likes to check on the credibility of self appointed "translators", to see to what extent they're actually trying to be of service to the community or merely pushing their own agenda.

Your lack of coordinaion has been noted.

While at it, and apropos "being in love with", your evil/agent bromance story down there had me thoroughly amused, to be frank.

I hope you get one million. +'s for that translation!!! Thank you for taking the time.

This ties together so many knots my brain was trying to put together about their exports rivalry!

'I told him not once at quacecon' was this supposed to mean, more than once? Not once means he didn't say it.


Do you know if evil was on agents stream, and what he said about it all? :)

thx for a hint about 'not once' =)

Regarding evil at agent's. They were mostly laughing and making funny speaking. Evil sounded happy. He didn't see what cypher was typing because he had deactivated that chat thing during play. Agent told evil that cypher was again talking shit during the matches. Evil asked whether it was smth insulting? Agent sort of played it up to it emphasizing a little more than necessary that yes it was. Evil got disgusted about it.
Agent was trying to refresh evil's thoughts about his exact moves during games vs cypher and clawz but evil coudn't remember much. Evil though gave his respect to clawz and said it was harder for him to play vs clawz than cypher. Was showing respect to nitrino's play as well while agent was thinking that nitrino played in an idiotic way.

Evil said that he himself hadn't played quake after quakecon much at all, only during the tournaments. Felt rusty in his games vs clawz but again said clawz was good. Made sarcastic notes about cypher urging on him to start their match as fast as possible right after cypher-vs-nitrino. Was also annoyed about cypher playing in a deliberately dumb manner, after first losing many frags and obviosule going to lose, as if cypher was trying to emphasize that he just wasn't trying really hard, to diminish evil's win in the end.
Talked a little bit about Quakecon. Evil admitted that he'd just fucked it up. Complained about the sponsorship stuff which made him think many different things during the quakecon which made him really hard to focus on important things. Felt bitter about how easily cooller got sponsored right after beating him and cypher once in a row.

In the end agent expressed his wish to practice really hard for the next 125 fps and asked evil whether he'd like to practice with him to help agent improve in his games. Evil was a bit surprised pointing out how once before agent was on the contrary reluctant to practice with him, but still gave his consent.

upd.: just remembered one more interesting thing about this interview. Evil was talking among other things about his misunderstanding of some sensitive for the community situations in the past, one of which was about his 'sieg heil' incident. He explained that he got a sort of a friend who just made fun of him giving him 'friendly' advice to type that shit in the game chat. Evil had a hunch that smth might be wrong about that but 'sieg heil' didn't sound familiar for him at all since he was trying to read it in english-russian manner knowing nothing about german dyphtongs pronounciation. He expected it to be smth funny, by no means insulting smb. So he risked it to type and then was for a long time in a confusion because couldn't find out why all of a sudden everyone got angry about him.

mostly accurate,
except that evil have explained a lot of situations during the semis and the final (he recalled quite many), while agent seemed to be a goddam memory prodigy, resurrecting in his mind EVERY fucking peculiar moment of evil's games throughout the whole 125fps season, playoffs mostly, and chaingunning them at evil, asking to comment on every of those moves and decisions. Lot's of laughing and good mood included). Was really relaxed and funny conversation, as between good friends with high mutual esteem.

agent and evil training together wow. i cant wait for it

btw, agent said that he tired of sucking and losing, hence his wish to practice with evil, aiming at meeting him in the finals of the next 125fps league season)

Nice, thank you all very much!

He didn't see what cypher was typing because he had deactivated that chat thing during play.

Can't believe cypher still didn't have that idea.

I was going to say, somebody please tell him about cg_teamchatsonly 1.

This is pathetic lol

I can understand his point of view somewhat though. Evil sometimes does extremely stupid stuff that he somehow manages to pull off every time

That's called being unpredictable and good at execution. You hardly ever see someone pulling that shit on evil. Imo he's just a little better than cypher these last few years and cypher can't deal with it.
Evil should, in theory, beat cypher 60% of the times, yet he beats him 80% of the times lately. It takes you to have a certain mindset, which cypher obviously doesn't have, to beat him. Rapha and Cooller, while being less flashy than cypher, have this mindset (they stand more chance against evil than against cypher)

yea no doubt. I'm not trying to undermine evil's style. He has changed the way quake is played as much as rapha has. But there are still moments where any pro player at the caliber would never do because they know they will get heavily punished for it except motherfucking evil somehow gets away with it almost everytime. Like when evil rj'ed in the air towards a higher stack cypher on dm13 and other crazy shit. I'm simply saying some of the shit he does makes no sense but he's obviously doing something right to win so consistently.

hes probably the best executor in quake scene so that probably allows him to do stupid shit

cypher, cypher, cypher... Back in the days I looked at his girly face and thought to myself - "no matter his looks, the guy wins and deserves some respect"... and then came instances of his ridiculous feminine hysteria... when it happened once or twice I was like: "man up, bro, don't embarrass yourself", but the years went by, cypher grew up and a funny thing happened - with each year he turns into more and more feminine pussy. It's just not right.
It's such a girly thing to do - to justify your own losses and inability to deal with hard tasks by blaming AND insulting other people (which mostly just turns into a torrent of mindless insults, having no relation with reality at all).

How much I've been cheering for cyfa 'round 7 years ago...
He lost all the respect he had from many a man in Quake community, including me and every quaker I know.
He, by his own weak insecure oestrogen nature, shows off every fucking time we see him typing in console chat, or giving an iview - "no matter if cyfa wins or not, he acts like a stupid unbearable she-child, so fuck him".

cyfer, on the other hand, executes the same 'seek'n'destroy' pressure when he sees the chance to, and really have destoroyed evil not even once in this way. But evil has never insulted baby cyfa after such steamrolls, he just took those hits, watched the vods, learnt to correct the flaws and think, plan further forward to execute more powerful and precisely next time they meet.

Evil is not a soulless person, he doesn't like the syfa's dirty mouth and bitchy nature.
maybe a couple of punches irl would teach sifa to find the balls he lost.

the correct way to play is to win

cypher needs to lay off the weed, it's rotting his brain

and what did cooller say about all this?

hehe, it's not thay easy to say it abrief :D
ok, i'll try to translate a bit more and put it here quite soon

Ok, done. Here it is the 2nd part. Not using 'err...' so often this time because weltschmertz doesn't approve :D
___________________

[Cypher] In the past, evil played better, when it was in OSP, or maybe it just only seemed to me that way, but it looked like… well I don’t know, but it was different somehow… I really liked the way he played. But then!.. that shit started to happen… this aggressiveness… he managed to grasp that mircro-moment which he is good at, and that’s it, there was nothing to be done against him… Well I mean there is nothing to be done only while I’m here under my current circumstances, then this is almost unreal to play vs him… I missed a couple of rails which cost me the game. I hit 3 rails on cure out of 18 – just those simplest rails, when he was running directly to me… like a pig!... jumping at me and I can’t hit a rail… That’s it, game over. When this is happening, I’m getting overly furious. Because it’s not quake! It’s bullshit! A primitive thoughtless shooter. But for me Quake – given the time I invested in it and its champs – is quite a different thing!

[Cooller] You mean art?

[Cypher] To some extent, sort of, yes.

[Cooller] It’s about being creative…

[Cypher] I’ve spent 10 years observing all players in the world errr… starting from you [addressing cooler]

[Cooller] Yeah!

[Cypher] And finishing with Rapha. You get it, right. I have my people. I mean I might dislike somebody as a person but, as a player, I have to him zero claims… I mean not exactly zero claims but rather I’m a fan of those few ones… again, without names. But here! It’s just constantly sort of bullshit happening. And people!.. people are buying this! The new generation, they watch him and think ‘Aha, this is the way of playing right! This is something that rules.’ They download his cfg. It’s like nitrino who told me when he had won vs me in my group: “I’ve downloaded evil’s cfg and this is how I defeated cypher". How many things he’d told people around about how he won against me! But this is nonsense, ridiculous! This is not worth it!

[Cooller] To cut it short, Alexey. Come on, make it slow.

[Cypher] So this is my point of view.

[Cooller] We have heard you. We have understood you. Well, what would I say in reply regarding all this. I’ve built a sort of observation for myself which may be called ‘suitable’ and ‘unsuitable’ gamestyle for this or that player. I’ve played for years and met many different players and it’s right like this: playing against one of them, you do everything right, even overdoing in performance in each moment, even without planning it in advance. Then you’re playing vs a different player, for example you. I’m trying to exert the maximum of myself but am allowed to do very little in fact. And whatever I do I just fail.

[Cypher] No! I totally disagree about that! I mean, everyone has his own…

[Cooller] Explanation? No, no, no…

[Cypher] To everyone can be found an approach. It’s all about your mentality…

[Cooller] No, no…

[Cypher] Even playing vs evil, I know what is to be done. Here I lose, yes, but I don’t give a shit about it! I feel butthurt because… well you see after all these years the community is now very small… and it is in a big delusion… people emerging, saying total bullshit… total bullshit because they understand nothing…

[Cooller] Delusion about what? I don’t get it. Explain it.

[Cypher] They are delusional about what is good and what is bad. What is skill, and what is… non-skill…

[Cooller] Are you trying to say that evil has no skill?

[Cyper] … naturally, evil has a skill, he has a skill which is quite serious… but I don’t deem, I don’t deem that, having this exact skill, this exact level of play, he should play exactly like he does it currently… He must play it in a different manner… That is, I don’t mean he must play it in a different manner, I mean he must reach the victory using different means. He is capable of playing a different way! I remember I was playing vs him… that was some tourney, he won 4-0 against me, and that was real, he wasn’t rushing me constantly but simply was ideal in his moves. And I know what it’s like when he’d doing everything ideal… but well… ok… He’s decided to play it this way well, let it be this way. I don’t care.

[Cooller] Ok, let’s be short. How are you?

[Cypher] I’m fine.

[Cooller] How is it going?

[Cypher] Hey, take note, I’ve just come to your stream to read a little bit the commentaries… And I just feel it urgent to close it… They talking about me using spice, oversmoked, some other shit…

[Cooller] Ha-ha-ha-ha!

[Cypher] … I’m fine, everything’s ok… Ok, it’s time, thanks for attention… err… my unlimited love to everyone. I love everyone, I adore everyone.

[Cooller] Ok, bye, we also have an unlimited love to you. Ha-ha.

so basically evil should change his playstyle because cypher sees it as "wrong".
Cypha is losing it

Thanks for all the translating! Really nice of you. :)

He-he, thanx for thanx :D
Honestly, I'm usually very lazy about such stuff, but this time I just couldn't resist :P

http://i.imgur.com/BpQwW.gif

So cooler was trying to say he thought cypher had cooller figured out, and theres not much you can do about it. And cypher said its the opposite, that you can play the player?

I think cooller was trying to say something along the lines of even if you play the perfect game and hitting all your shots well sometimes you will lose to a certain player. Cypher disagreed and said it's all in the mindset.

I think they are trying to describe a phenomenon where sometimes even when you feel you're aiming better and playing smarter than your opponent you still lose. For me personally i discovered i was looking at the game too objectively. I felt like i was hitting better because when i specced the guy he had terrible rockets and movement and couldn't lg close range. Then i realized he is just simply hitting those key lg and rail moments and that's why he was winning. He was better at executing in the smaller stuff that i tended to overlook.

now cypher is endorsing playstyles... lmao smh

Kinda reminds me of something I read about the olden days of chess, where if your opponent was making an elaborate attack, the polite thing to do was to see the attack to the end and not try to stop it. IIRC it was so that you could fully appreciate the art of chess in the opponent's preparation and execution of the attack.

I can't remember the context (era; and if this applied to competitive chess), and I couldn't find info on the net, so don't quote me on it.

Then again, how "artful" are moves that don't stand against a fully committed opponent?

But this is already not that quake, that's sort of parody on quake, on shooter... You just pick random shooter, download it, and play it plusforward and shoot. That is about it. For me quake is an utterly different thing and... how much effort have I invested in it thinking how to better the way I play it, how to make it ideal.

To me part of the frustration seems to stem from thinking that evil's playstyle is easier to learn than a thinking-man's "proper" playstyle, while leading to equal success, and therefore it's wrong. That Quake shouldn't allow it.

In my armchair psychologist opinion Cypher could use this to learn some mental toughness, which might allow him to consistently beat evil. Then again, maybe he has some other stuff going on in his life that he projects to Quake. I know I did that with games when I was at a low point.

Smells... scrubby.

Evil just continued what strenx pretty much started in duel: hitscan heavy (except not being so one dimensional) reaction based style with really basic decision making. And it works because this is what the game caters for. I don't know why he is whining though because when he is raping he is pretty much the same ever since he realised that's the way it's supposed to be played.

QL duel has been trash for ages now. There will be more bases, clawz's and evils in the future compared to coollers and raphas, a trend that doesn't make me too sad about QL dying.

Yet rapha beat evil two times in a row at QuakeCon... so I don't see how evil's playstyle is the "easy shit" as Cypher present it.
Cypher said he missed 3 easy rails in a row or something and that cost him the game... well, QL is a shooter after all, you are supposed to be able to hit before being smart in a way, both technique and strategy belong to the game.

Well, rapha hit those 3 rails. He usually does when it matters. I wonder how he would do if he'd play a year in Europe.

"QL is a shooter after all" isn't really an argument. Quake's supposed to be a shooter where different elements of the game can cover up for deficits in other elements. At the moment the balance between those elements is fucked to the point it's not interesting to watch or play. The process of playing a duel should be fun, the end result shouldn't be important. When rapha camps 8 minutes for a perfect situation then I'm not sure if it's strategical/tactical superiority or just his opponents getting bored to death. I suppose that qualifies as a strategy also - one with a really boring process.

"QL is a shooter after all" is the kind of an argument the current generation of fans that cypher refers to use. If it would be CA they would say "it has not strats", but they fail to see that current duel is not far from CA compared to what it was and what it should/could be.

Lack of money >> lan tournaments >> real competition is the main cause of this trend.
Quake needs a worthy successor and some luck to get back in e-sports's light.

People wont start hitting less because of money.

Oh yes they will, because they will dodge more :).
Seriously, Cooller would have played CS if no money were spend on prizes for Q3 lans.

And would have been average at it.

Maybe, but it wouldn't have played Quake.

Ok.

Well, I think you are exagerating when you are saying duel is now CA.

Perhaps the balance between strategy and technique is fucked up because of the current players skill and not because of the game. The thing is, I clearly admit that I don't have your experience nor your capacity of analysis regarding Quake since I actually don't play a lot while you are a solid player overall.

Still, I just don't have the same feeling than you. I'm not sure evil is dominating because the state of the game has it that you only have to outaim your opponent to win the game (and then again... I don't see how that would be disappointing for a shooter game with various weapons to master in a way). rapha's playstyle may be boring, but at least he won often versus evil.

Don't you think it's up to players like Cypher or even rapha to train and be able to counter evil more easily in fights ? To me, saying "he only wins because he aims better than me" is quite feeble. If you are better at strategy but can't hit enough, well you have to get better in hitting enough and evil will be equaled in this field and even outbrained in the strategic field so all in all you could win easily against him.

I agree with you that Quake duel is a mode in which "different elements of the game can cover up for deficits in other elements". Still, I think we can't really blame agressive style of play and aimheavy styles, because these style do require some mastery which some players aren't always able to counter even when mastering strategical parts ofthe game. That's perhaps because they focused too much on strategical parts.

In your opinion, the balance of the game is fucked up, but it might just be that players still didn't really found a good way to counter it yet. Cypher says he plays like shit because evil's style makes him angry. We don't even know what Cypher would do against him if he had a neutral mindset. rapha succeeded in winning against evil, and Cypher also did many times in the past. Perhaps he just has to adapt and be able to find some tricks to counter evil, or just train and prevent evil from hitting too much while receiving few.

Besides, Clawz and baSe_ never really won against evil but I don't remember them beating Cypher a lot too... so I wouldn't say their style is that dominating. Anyway, it's a bit lame to say that evil doesn't deserve respect because his style is not honourable like Cypher says. I respect Cypher a lot actually, he has proven to be a superb player many times, so I'm not suspected to be in evil's camp or so, even if I like both players. If evil dominates, he deserves to be respected and his style shouldn't be "dishonourable". It's not beautiful for you because you prefer an other style, this is perfectly fine, but pretend that evil doesn't deserve respect for winning... against Cypher, the prodigy who won QuakeCons and such... excuse me but that doesn't sound right (you didn't say so anyway, I'm just refering to what Cypher said more or less).

By the way, since you know the game a lot and all. What would make the game more balanced according to you ? How would you like duel again ?

I agree that cypher shouldn't whine. Where was his honourable style when he out-shafted rapha in that Dreamhack (?) final which led rapha to say something along the lines of "never seen anyone hit that hard".

My general attitude to QL is that it's way too easy to hit at the top and there is too much sound information in duel.

The things I would address:

1) Weapon re-spawn and ammo.

Make weapon re-spawn longer than 5 seconds. I've switched to TDM past couple of years and in TDM weapons are treated as power ups. Weapon and ammo management is a big part of winning and it gives an extra way how to counter certain teams with certain styles. Right now in duel there is basically no weapon/ammo control apart from some extreme cases where your opponent has to take more time to get all of them. To cover a weapon in duel you need to camp there for a long time, meaning you'll just give away the rest of the map. In TDM this leads to more asynchronous fights (people having to use different weapons) because lack of other weapons (plazma, SG and even GL are legit) leads to bigger fight variety. This also means you have to be better across the whole set of weapons compared to the main 3 in duel ("dueler SG" is a term we jokingly use in TDM).

Secondly, there is too much ammo in duel at the moment, which means people can easily double stack on a weapon re-spawn and they don't have to give up positions to get ammo. This in my opinion leads to a stagnated game play because the player in control doesn't have to give room for the other player to move around by going for those ammo boxes. A Q3 ammo system where you couldn't double stack by picking up a weapon could be one solution. If the ammo system would be changed and weapon re-spawn lengthened I imagine the base amount of ammo you get from each needs to be adjusted.

So changing these two things would allow more breathing room to move around making it easier to set up traps and adds more variety into fights. Equal weapon fights have always been the most boring ones because both players essentially have to do the same thing. With different weapons people have different goals in fights (what to avoid and what to go for) and it's more about tricking your opponent into the situation that suits your current weapon(s) more. This leads to people having to pick which weapons they want to be the focus of their strategies. This also adds more goals for both players advancing the meta game of "what does he need and does he know I know he needs it".

2) Weapons are too easy to hit and they don't do enough damage.

I feel that the stack to weapon damage ratio is screwed in duel. People get high stacks too easily and this makes traps not that efficient. In TDM the average stacks of people are lower so if you trap your opponent into a situation that favors your weapons you're bound to do lots of damage relative to what his stack was. In duel the traps are hardly worth going for and the frequency of them doing major damage is relatively low. The solution for this would be to up damages, but that would lead to a more hitscan/instagib heavy game similar to CPMA VQ which was also crap. There are two possible solutions that pop into my mind: (1) add shooting delay to hitscan and slower down the projectiles and raise damages across the board or (2) make the hitboxes smaller and again raise damages and slow down projectiles, hitscan can be the same. The aim of this would be to make the weapons more situation specific, but really deadly and easy to aim at their correct situations. Currently rail and shaft can hit from all angles which loses the "best weapon for situation" concept in my eyes. Overpowered weapons are fun and making them harder to hit leads to a bigger noticeable contrast between a good situation/position and a bad one. Currently I feel that across the board all weapons at low pings work like hitscan.

In the first point I was mainly talking about making people have to be able to fight having each a different weapon, in this point the position which they use them in gets more important even when they both have the same weapon. This would also make upper and lower positions strategically more important again.

Epic adrenaline heavy rocket fights are so rare these days compared to the OSP era.

3) Problem of sound, information and enemy's attention.

QL being hitscan heavy is only one side of the "reaction heavy game style", the other is being able to base your game play around sound and just reacting to sound cues. Here I can bring another parallel with TDM, something I instantly noticed compared to duel. In TDM, there are lots of sounds that confuse and lots of things that take attention of your enemies, which leads to obvious blind spots/angles that you can abuse with your full range of weapons depending on the situation. Much more often you can do lots of damage just by reading the game and understanding how your opponents attention moves. Easiest examples would be your opponents fighting with your teammates and you rush in from behind or knowing that they are more likely to react to people shooting than footsteps so you first walk close with SG before you shoot. In duel your opponent 80% of the time has his nose towards you making it really hard to even get into the range with half the weapons or trick him reading you wrong because he can hear all of your moves. Imagine Aerowalk (which is an extreme I know, but it's similar on most of the maps), you can't really do anything out of control because he hears you and if you're quiet for too long he already starts suspecting something so he can easily predict your move.

I would love something to be done with footsteps. There are two solutions I would like to try: (1) remove footsteps when you have gauntlet out or (2) make walking faster. I personally love the first idea because you have a downside (having gauntlet out) and an obvious gain. This would allow you to trick your opponent and open his blind angles more often leading to more interesting traps and more interesting fights + the infinite possibilities to troll running after him for a while just because you can. This would also mean that the meta game would shift from what's on the monitor and in the earphones into your head because you have to calculate/predict more what he could do, and when combined with my first point, what he wants to do most likely. Currently in duel blind angles consist of some rail angles 75% of the time, which I don't really find fun or diverse.

As final words, the points I've brought up above are things that I've noticed other games and other modes do better and are obviously up for balancing. I'm not against aim or anything, just I feel there could be more variety in fights and there could be more extreme and contrasting play styles that draw out. If all of those would be implemented I can totally see myself devising different strategies, how to beat this or that player. Currently everyone plays pretty much the same and the differences between the strategies are small, not to say banal.

Might be more useful had you placed this really curious post somewhere in the front. Very few people are going to visit this vault of forsaken thoughts and emotions since recently.

Dno, I feel like I'm repeating myself with this. I've been saying this for years I think :P

But if you think that it needs more attention feel free to turn it into a thread or something.

pity i've never created such individual posts so far and lazy to start figurign it out now, just saw interesting ideas in your words. maybe infuscomus could make it into a fit discussion grounds, he seems to be an expert in posting things :)

Cypher in my opinion is a two-faced clown, despite his talent for Quake. One interview he is blabbing about how he think the most successful sport players are of aggressive nature, the next interview he whines that Evil is playing too blunt, because he is too aggressive! Some rubber stretching of opinion he has.

Your own definitions of what Quake is or should be is much less of a refute than an argument of the fact that Quake is quite a simple shooter in its essence. Hit more, win more. The only way how to increase your score is to shoot your opponent down, there really aren't and has never been that many other elements in the game. A couple of power-ups, same positions over-played a 387327 times by the top players and at this point they work around them like bots. Where and when the game hasn't been about mechanical superiority? It's the strongest element of all, always has been. Positioning, decision making, map control and so on just supplements the conditions of you gunning your opponent down.

Yes, I agree, it's a game of mechanical nature, but even within that framework there are many elements to a fight which all have different proportions of importance to the fight outcome. The "hit more" part can be set up so that you actually hit more. It's those proportions that I feel could be fixed to give more tactically viable options.

For example a model of a fight I'm pulling now from the top of my head:

1) Fight initialization phase:

a) For how many milliseconds and for what amount of damage can a player have an upper hand over other. This is your classical trap situation.
b) The starting positions of a fight and what do these allow for each player.
c) What weapons do the players have out and how fast can they fix the mistake and for what cost.
d) The starting stacks in the fight
e) Is the fight symmetrical or asymmetrical (same weapons vs different ones)

2) Fight phase:

a) Aim part
b) Weapon selection/switching
c) Dodge
d) Picking up items mid fight
e) Setting mid fight traps
f) Fight length/damage per kill
g) What are the weapons like -> weapon damage to stack ratio.

3) Fight end phase

a) One dies
b) Both dies
c) Escapes - low hp vs high hp, high vs high, low vs low
d) Positions at the end of fight
e) Total fight length

4) Mid fight phase
a) Decisions from last fight
b) etc

Each of these attributes has a different weight on the fight outcome and by tinkering with the game-play you can increase or decrease the importance of each of those. Purely mechanical is none of them because even with aim people have different strategies how they aim against different kinds of dodges to make it easier for them.

Each of those attributes has a different effect on the perception people will have about the fight. Is the fight long, short, lots of dodging, lots of hitting, are there lots of positions switched, is it easy to finish off opponent, is there a prime choice of a weapon, etc. For example, if the aim component is too dominating the dodge component wont really be used to it's full potential.

Yes, the outcome is "mechanical" as you need to perform/execute, but there are many layers that allow you increase or decrease:

a) your aim
b) likelihood of positive outcome of the fight

Hihi ;)

Netcode started the change though... strenx had little to do with it except having aim. (imho)

I thought strenx came into dominance when the netcode already had changed. IIRC evil said that he copied strenx's setup 1:1 and adjusted it little 3 or sth years ago. And yes, I don't give strenx more credit than being the correct type of player at the correct time. Evil was the one who consciously picked it up.

I know.
What I try to say is that "Because the netcode had changed" --> "Strenx came into dominance".
Which is basically what I whined about for years with the +forward lg stuff... (not that strenx came into dominance but that the netcode influenced the game negatively)

So to me it seems (combined with the other thread we were in) that the following happened:
I notice netcode favors a certain type of player (and start to whine about it)
-> that type of player (strenx) comes into dominance (as I grow more and more distant from the scene due to not finding much enjoyment playing against these people)
-> people (evil among them) adopt the playstyle and improve on it
-> rest of the community (including Cypher) suddenly thinks that the game is unbalanced / not logical anymore.

(where each -> is about 1 ~ 2 years passing)

If you reread my old posts on this... it's kinda what I predicted back in 2010 / 2011....

edit: the netcode changed from Q3 -> QL (aka at the start of the official release of QL the netcode was already messed up (iirc)).
From there on it took around half a year before I realized what was wrong... And then another year or so before I started to whine about it in public.

Dno, IMO the netcode was broken already from OSP to CPMA VQ. Are you having some narcissistic trip atm? :D

I was in the army in 2010/2011 so I don't know much about that period.

not really narcissistic... more like nostalgic or "ye this is how I felt".
Especially towards the end of what Cypher is saying....

And I agree that netcode became messed up from OSP -> CPMA. However because people used extrapolation on their client with interpolation on the server (at least that's what I guess happens in CPMA because I can't read the code). The largest part of it being broken (interpolating server) is fixed by a (client extrapolation) part which counters it.

(I kinda use the term interpolation loosely in this post.... maybe saying 'a certain kind of unlagged' would be a more accurate term)

Thanks for your effort, dude. Much appreciated.

Well thanks for an eventual recognition. Appreciate your effort to plus it.

Almost broke my wrist doing it.

And you know what I was about. The first thing was more of a parody. While the second appeared to be an honest attempt, at being fair. And I'm always glad to duly acknowledge an honest attempt. And the work that had gone into it.

In retrospect I admit that I had overexaggerated the clumsiness of cypher's speech though I'd done that not deliberately but rather as a result of randomly trying to choose something as a substitute for incoherent speech and interjections which I didn't see as bringing any useful information. I was translating directly according to what I was hearing without real double checking. Should I have used dot strings instead, there would be more sense, because soundwise cypher's speech didn't stutter much. So I saw your posts at the time as an inadequately hostile overreaction at which I felt much disappointed, because I had an image of yours by the moment as a man of an exquisite mindset. Well despite anything you're still are :)

I guess my 'bias' you're insisting on is likely to stem from remembering how really often during the last years cypher directly humiliated evil after losing to him in a quite disgusting manner, which has mostly been concealed from the knowledge of people who doesn't speak russian and believe that those spurts occurred rarely and were not worth mentioning. Being for many years an admirer of cypher as a true genious, after having observed his recent behaviors, I'm close to deeply despise him as a person.

No, I wasn't hostile. Your "translation" just read like he was barely able to put a single thought together. And, given the pointers your provided yourself and have edited out in the meantime (like cypher speaking with a "whiny voice") I felt that double checking myself couldn't hurt. And what I heard there, merely by the sound and fluency of it, just didn't match up with your version.

As to the other thing, the trash talk and its history, I did neither follow nor do I particularly care about it. Personal insults are not to be tolerated of course. While, at the same time, I'm not under the impression that evil actively tries to deescalate the situation. When he, as you yourself wrote above, mutes cyphers chat but still spams his smiley it's pretty obvious that he wants to set cypher off that tangent people appear to take issue with.

Yet, as said, I don't really care. All I care about is good games. And myself, I'm quite disappointed that cypher isn't able to better compose himself and focus on the task at hand, regardless how many smileys or possibly other ridicule come flying at him. Because games like that last final are just a waste of everybody's time, mine included.

i love how evil only write "gg" and disconnect when he lose to cypher, instead of saying those bullshits like cypher in the interview

btw, i imagine evil' face if he had watched the interview, should be like this =)

I've lost count of the ways I've tried to shut this down
But the flame never goes out
All the dangers I've faced I've taken on my own
I've never had reason to doubt.
But you, you've opened through
I've got no defense as you take me over the edge

I don't want to lose control
But the minute I feel you next to me your fire takes hold
Falling like a burning stone
But it feels like you're my gravity
I'm gonna let myself go

The one piece that I need to make me feel complete
The rest means nothing to me
What a rush that I get
Its as good as when you're right there
You know you fill my head you push my senses over the edge

I don't want to lose control
But the minute I feel you next to me your fire takes hold
Falling like a burning stone
But it feels like you're my gravity
I'm gonna let myself go

Falling into you there's nothing I can do
I got no defense against you
Falling into you the ways you pull me through
I keep falling deeper into you

I don't want to lose control
But the minute I feel you next to me your fire takes hold
Falling like a burning stone
But it feels like you're my gravity
I'm gonna let myself go



Matrix And Futurebound - Control

Imagine Cypher (his mind) vs Evil ... just so on point